Pew: Strongest support for Snowden comes from young adults — and tea partiers

posted at 6:15 pm on June 17, 2013 by Allahpundit

A repudiation of my “tea partiers aren’t that libertarian” thesis or an illustration of it?

We won’t know until there’s a Republican in the White House again.

tp

All of the numbers are extraordinary there, but the most eye-popping is the fact that the only other partisan segment that agrees with TPers that Snowden’s FISA/PRISM leak was in the public interest are … liberals. In a separate question, Pew asked people if they would feel “violated” if they knew that the government had collected their data; then they divided the results up by various demographics — sex, race, age, education, partisanship, you name it. Among 17 different demographic slices, the one with the highest percentage saying that hey would indeed feel violated was tea partiers at fully 78 percent. The second-rate, from independents, was a distant second at just 69 percent. Proof positive that Rand Paul’s right and I’m wrong about a deep, permanent libertarian shift within the GOP? Or merely an artifact of sharp partisanship fueled by tea partiers’ total distrust of The One? Hmm:

part

That doesn’t prove anything, of course. It’s possible, maybe even probable, that the two parties’ views of interventionism and the surveillance state won’t revert to what they were circa 2007 once the executive branch changes hands again. Some Democrats, having now heard a president they support extol the virtues of a post-9/11 NSA, will see counterterror surveillance in a different light permanently going forward. Some Republicans, having now been forced to trust a president they loathe with massive domestic intelligence capabilities, will never again support government’s security prerogative the way they once did. The million-dollar question is how deep and broad those sorts of shifts in perspective are. That’s the core of the Cruz/Paul distinction. Cruz has “concerns” in principle with the scope of NSA surveillance but the crux of his objection seems to be that Obama is uniquely untrustworthy. If that’s true, then having a Republican back in office will make some of his constituents comfortable again with broad surveillance. Paul’s objection to surveillance has less to do with Obama than with the nature of government power itself. Supporters of his who’ve made the shift to doctrinaire libertarianism aren’t coming back around to NSA power just because a GOPer is in charge. (Unless it’s Rand himself?) What percentage of tea partiers who object to Obama’s NSA are in Cruz’s camp versus Paul’s camp?

Give Rand credit, though, for identifying younger voters as being potentially receptive to his message uniquely among Republicans. If Pew’s numbers are right, that’s absolutely true: Americans aged 18-29 are the most likely among the various age demographics to object to government data collection (55 percent) and also the most likely to see Snowden’s leaks as serving the public interest (60 percent). A majority of every age group and of the public at large thinks Snowden should be prosecuted — except young voters, who oppose it, 44/50. If you’re worried about young adults once again crippling the GOP at the polls over issues like gay marriage, taking a strong Paulian line on government intrusions on digital privacy is one way to hedge.

Exit question: How to reconcile Pew’s findings with this data from this morning’s CNN poll?

cnnacnnb


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We won’t know until there’s a Republican in the White House again.

So we’ll never know ?

burrata on June 17, 2013 at 6:16 PM

young adults — and tea partiers
A coalition made in Hell

J_Crater on June 17, 2013 at 6:19 PM

I’m sure a certain fish is going to have a field day with this thread.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 6:19 PM

I’m neither, but I am sympathetic toward Snowden.

I have yet to hear anything definitive and non-contradictory to suggest that he is anything other than someone who is blowing the cover on Obama’s domestic spying program.

davidk on June 17, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Proof positive that Rand Paul’s right and I’m wrong about a deep, permanent libertarian shift within the GOP?

Yes. And all those troublesome social issues take a backseat.

John the Libertarian on June 17, 2013 at 6:21 PM

I’m sure a certain fish is going to have a field day with this thread.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 6:19 PM

She doesn’t tip waiters. That’s all you need to know about her.

John the Libertarian on June 17, 2013 at 6:22 PM

The one way the Repubs survive is going Libertarian. But… far too many here put institutions on pedestals and are unwilling to examine their convictions. They will bow to the State so long as they continue to pull the “ra ra” military and police bit.

antisense on June 17, 2013 at 6:23 PM

A lot of conservatives are becoming alienated from the GOP because they are showing that they are NOT in fact much different than the Democrats. That trend is getting worse year by year.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Well, duh (for lack of a lengthy one-line comment).

Jeddite on June 17, 2013 at 6:24 PM

The Young adults were born and raised on the internet/cyberspace/IT/data.

It’s a bigger deal to them, because most young people live their lives through cyberspace.

I expected this.

portlandon on June 17, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Ashamed of my age group (50-64)and their support for the surveillance state.

chemman on June 17, 2013 at 6:25 PM

They will bow to the State so long as they continue to pull the “ra ra” military and police bit.

antisense on June 17, 2013 at 6:23 PM

And this is the strategy being employed by the Obamacons. Infiltrate the bedrock institutions, and move them left. The masses will follow without ever noticing.

BobMbx on June 17, 2013 at 6:27 PM

A lot of conservatives are becoming alienated from the GOP because they are showing that they are NOT in fact much different than the Democrats. That trend is getting worse year by year.
sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 6:23 PM

I was unaware that the Gang of Eight are conservative.

txhsmom on June 17, 2013 at 6:27 PM

A majority of every age group and of the public at large thinks Snowden should be prosecuted

Prosecuted for what ?

burrata on June 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM

A repudiation of my “tea partiers aren’t that libertarian” thesis or an illustration of it?

Yes. Earlier, I was going to say you really pegged the Tea Party wrong.

MadisonConservative on June 17, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Yes. And all those troublesome social issues take a backseat.

John the Libertarian on June 17, 2013 at 6:21 PM

They indeed might, but their won’t be enough libertarians to unseat the dems. A strictly libertarian GOP will be like the GOP of my parents days. The happily minority party.

chemman on June 17, 2013 at 6:29 PM

I was unaware that the Gang of Eight are conservative.

txhsmom on June 17, 2013 at 6:27 PM

They aren’t conservative, but many of them are part of the GOP.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 6:30 PM

The Young adults were born and raised on the internet/cyberspace/IT/data.

It’s a bigger deal to them, because most young people live their lives through cyberspace.

I expected this.

portlandon on June 17, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Wouldn’t that suggest they care less about privacy, not more?

WitchDoctor on June 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Obama drops like a rocket…among young blacks.

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Just goes to show that Millenial’s only love one thing: their smartphones.

sentinelrules on June 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Prosecuted for what ?

burrata on June 17, 2013 at 6:28 PM

For openers, violating any non-disclosure agreements he might have signed regarding classified materials or procedures. And, if he’s sharing things with the Chinese and Russians, possibly espionage. If we were at war with either of them, possibly treason.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 6:32 PM

The tea party was knife stabbed in the back by IRS , so naturally they wont trust NRA with an ax.

the_nile on June 17, 2013 at 6:34 PM

“Benghazi, Obama lied
People died

NSA, Obama lied
The gov’t spied”

– Sarah Palin

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Now we can clearly see how few people have read, or support the Constitution of the United States.

Americans don’t lose their freedoms. They give them away on bended knee.

DannoJyd on June 17, 2013 at 6:35 PM

“The drop in Obama’s support is fueled by a dramatic 17-point decline over the past month among people under 30, who, along with black Americans, had been the most loyal part of the Obama coalition,” says Keating Holland, polling director for CNN. “It is clear that revelations about NSA surveillance programs have damaged Obama’s standing with the public, although older controversies like the IRS matter may have begun to take their toll as well.”

The survey, released Monday, also shows that 50 percent of Americans say they don’t believe Obama is “honest and trustworthy,” for the first time in his presidency, according to CNN. His personal trustworthiness was a measure that shined during his re-election campaign, where he continually outperformed Republican presidential opponent Mitt Romney, bolstering his position despite a struggling economy.

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Wouldn’t that suggest they care less about privacy, not more?

WitchDoctor on June 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Not at all. The Government spying on the younger generation’s cyper personas & internet traffic is equivalent to a peeping Tom/ home invasion for everyone else.

portlandon on June 17, 2013 at 6:37 PM

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 6:30 PM

I misunderstood you. LOL

txhsmom on June 17, 2013 at 6:38 PM

I misunderstood you. LOL

txhsmom on June 17, 2013 at 6:38 PM

No problem.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM

Do you trust this ‘man’?

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:39 PM

The survey, released Monday, also shows that 50 percent of Americans say they don’t believe Obama is “honest and trustworthy,” for the first time in his presidency, according to CNN. His personal trustworthiness was a measure that shined during his re-election campaign, where he continually outperformed Republican presidential opponent Mitt Romney, bolstering his position despite a struggling economy.

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Everyone but the brain dead clearly saw how much Romney liked and agreed with the Obama Regime while he spent his free time attacking the Conservatives and Ron Paul supporters. That is why he lost in the end and why the GOPe will remain incapable of winning elections.

DannoJyd on June 17, 2013 at 6:40 PM

And for the past few years the Obama administration has reportedly been gathering and analyzing information from major internet companies about audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails and documents involving people in other countries in an attempt to locate suspected terrorists. The government reportedly does not target internet usage by U.S. citizens and if such data is collected, it is kept under strict controls. Do you think the Obama administration was right or wrong in gathering and analyzing that internet data?

I can’t imagine how CNN specifying that the government is trying to locate terrorists, doesn’t target US citizens, and keeps strict controls on any data collected from US citizens would possibly bias the answers given.

DKCZ on June 17, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Trust this scumhag?

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:42 PM

I told you…there’s been such a hard swing to the left by hardcore conservatives because Obama is so massively right wing..and you all hate Obama. What better proof than an alliance by the most progressive people and the most hard right?

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Tea Partiers are a lot like Perot voters, they have always had a Libertarian streak because they feel even the national security agencies need to be a part of budget cuts and in bringing more transparency to government. I identify with the tea party movement because they want to take action to limit Federal overreach, they understand that to prevent Federal agencies like the IRS, EPA, or NSA from hurting us we have to cut the size of the Federal Government through spending reform and balanced budgets. Tighten the budgets to reign in these agencies and force more transparency in government so that an Attorney General in contempt can’t be protected by executive privilege.

Tea Partiers had previously shown they were willing to cut defense spending to get the budget under control, so they’ve already broken with the sacred cow of the GOP and proven their independence. This isn’t about Obama, it’s about what is right and what is wrong.

Daemonocracy on June 17, 2013 at 6:44 PM

sentinelrules on June 17, 2013 at 6:31 PM

My son is 19. I don’t know what his opinion on Snowden is. I do know that he loathes the NSA.
As for me(almost 43) I’m of 2 minds concerning Snowden. On one hand-I’m glad he spilled about the NSA-on the other hand-he crosses me as a bit of a shady character who’s doing much of what he’s doing for the attention/notoriety of it all.

annoyinglittletwerp on June 17, 2013 at 6:45 PM

Snowden should be hung on the nearest tree. /bluegill

tommy71 on June 17, 2013 at 6:45 PM

I have yet to hear anything definitive and non-contradictory to suggest that he is anything other than someone who is blowing the cover on Obama’s domestic spying program.

davidk on June 17, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Dick Cheney has words for you.

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:46 PM

I voted for the 3rd and 4th terms of Richard Nixon and Chimpy Bush.

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Edited for Accuracy.

Who am us, anyway?

Del Dolemonte on June 17, 2013 at 6:47 PM

I told you…there’s been such a hard swing to the left by hardcore conservatives

Small government is now left-wing is it?

because Obama is so massively right wing

No, he is a socialist and they love government control and massive bureaucracy.

..and you all hate Obama.

True

What better proof than an alliance by the most progressive people and the most hard right?

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

More likely the younger people are starting to wake up to what a bunch of con artist you leftist are.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 6:47 PM

What better proof than an alliance by the most progressive people and the most hard right?

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

You are this now: O’Donnell from MSNBC agrees in full with Dick Cheney.

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:48 PM

If there were justice in the world, Snowden would be living it up in the White House and Obama would have had to go into hiding.

VorDaj on June 17, 2013 at 6:48 PM

I have yet to hear anything definitive and non-contradictory to suggest that he is anything other than someone who is blowing the cover on Obama’s domestic spying program.

davidk on June 17, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Dick Cheney has words for you. Did you know he dodged the draft as many times as Joe Biden? And George Soros is now a part-owner of Halliburton!

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Edited for Accuracy.

Just curious, Teaching Assistant-how is that Cheney War Crimes Trial coming along? I know you guys already dropped War Crimes charges against Colon Powell because he endorsed Dear Leader, but I haven’t seen any other failure updates.

(Stars Sundial #7,302)

Del Dolemonte on June 17, 2013 at 6:49 PM

What galls the troll most is that we Conservatives have been correct about Obama all along — that’s he’s a pugnacious narcissistic control-freak who wants to be king. And some liberals are seeing it, too.

I bet deep down, the troll wants them banished if not gotten rid of the same as he wants us gone.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 6:50 PM

In a roundtable discussion, a trio of former National Security Agency whistle-blowers tell USA TODAY that Edward Snowden succeeded where they failed.

When a National Security Agency contractor revealed top-secret details this month on the government’s collection of Americans’ phone and Internet records, one select group of intelligence veterans breathed a sigh of relief.

Thomas Drake, William Binney and J. Kirk Wiebe belong to a select fraternity: the NSA officials who paved the way.
For years, the three whistle-blowers had told anyone who would listen that the NSA collects huge swaths of communications data from U.S. citizens. They had spent decades in the top ranks of the agency, designing and managing the very data-collection systems they say have been turned against Americans. When they became convinced that fundamental constitutional rights were being violated, they complained first to their superiors, then to federal investigators, congressional oversight committees and, finally, to the news media.

To the intelligence community [neo-Stasi on crack], the trio are villains who compromised what the government classifies as some of its most secret, crucial and successful initiatives. They have been investigated as criminals and forced to give up careers, reputations and friendships built over a lifetime.
Today, they feel vindicated.

Q: So Snowden did the right thing?
Binney: Yes, I think he did.
Q: You three wouldn’t criticize him for going public from the start?
J. Kirk Wiebe: Correct.
Binney: In fact, I think he saw and read about what our experience was, and that was part of his decision-making.

Not only did they go through multiple and all the proper internal channels and they failed, but more than that, it was turned against them. … The inspector general was the one who gave their names to the Justice Department for criminal prosecution under the Espionage Act. And they were all targets of a federal criminal investigation, and Tom ended up being prosecuted — and it was for blowing the whistle.

VorDaj on June 17, 2013 at 6:51 PM

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

All of the un-American garbage started with Wilson.

Espionage Act of 1917

Sedition Act of 1918

Progressivism is a cancer worse than any Middle Eastern terrorist.

You voted for it.

tetriskid on June 17, 2013 at 6:52 PM

See 12:28. It’s such a noble cause.

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 6:53 PM

Ashamed of my age group (50-64)and their support for the surveillance state.

I’m with the kids. I think you’re reading it wrong chemman, us old farts are closer to them on this issue. After seeing how Obama operates with his uber-control through his agencies I don’t want him anywhere near surveilance. Seeing the old guard GOP line up with the dems gives me pause as well.

DanMan on June 17, 2013 at 6:56 PM

What galls the troll most is that we Conservatives have been correct about Obama all along — that’s he’s a pugnacious narcissistic control-freak who wants to be king. And some liberals are seeing it, too.

I bet deep down, the troll wants them banished if not gotten rid of the same as he wants us gone.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 6:50 PM

The best way to defeat left collectivists is to shine a light on their filthy cockroach activities.

ebrown2 on June 17, 2013 at 6:56 PM

There has been a total of 5 NSA Whistleblowers to come forward since 2001. 3 NSA Whistleblowers came out in 2001/2002 and one NSA Whistleblower came out in 2005 and another NSA Whistleblower came out in 2013.

All 5 NSA Whistleblowers became convinced that our fundamental constitutional rights were being violated, they complained first to their superiors, then to federal investigators, congressional oversight committees and, finally, all of them leaked info to the news media.

All 5 of the NSA Whistleblowers have said the same thing as Snowden and those NSA Whistleblowers that have been interviewed to comment on Snowden have said he is only mentioning the tip of the iceberg.
Thomas Drake, William Binney, J. Kirk Wiebe, Russell D. Tice, and Edward Joseph Snowden.

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM

I told you…there’s been such a hard swing to the left by hardcore conservatives because Obama is so massively right wing..and you all hate Obama. What better proof than an alliance by the most progressive people and the most hard right?

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Drunk, stupid and homosexual is no way to go through life, princess.

Sober up before you type next time.

“…because Obama is so massively right wing…” BWAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on June 17, 2013 at 7:01 PM

There is currently a climate of fear growing throughout the United States. Millions of Americans are terrified of the IRS, Eric Holder’s Department of InJustice, the EPA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and even perhaps the FBI, CIA, and State Department.

Some may wish to characterize it as fear – I would characterize it as a red hot glowing rage.
.

There can be no mistaking the plain fact that Mr. Obama has no intention whatsoever of being president of all of the people of the United States, or even in executing the duties of that office for that matter.

He is the Destroyer, the man that the founders were so afraid would show up long after their deaths to undo that which they had toiled and bled to create, to me that is why you see former GOP “hawks” now turning dovish. Bush would never even dream of using the “power” of the state as a political tool, like Obama has.

So do you blame the GOP now being worried about this power falling into the wrong hands?

Raquel Pinkbullet on June 17, 2013 at 7:02 PM

This should only be surprising to RINO’s and NeoCon statists.

Long Legged MacDaddy on June 17, 2013 at 7:02 PM

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on June 17, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Comical, isn’t it? Liberals are finally agreeing with what we have been saying for five years after fighting us tooth and nail, and the troll says we are the ones joining them.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 7:04 PM

Just shows that the GOP could make in-roads with a Liberty agenda.

And the Social Cons should get on board with a more libertarian outlook because the only way we won’t all be forced to bow at the alter of liberal social orthodoxy in every aspect of life is if we peel back the State. Just imagine the craziness of students being suspended for pop-tart guns applied to gay marriage, premarital sex, porn, abortion, etc etc.

Clark1 on June 17, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Comical, isn’t it? Liberals are finally agreeing with what we have been saying for five years after fighting us tooth and nail, and the troll says we are the ones joining them.

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 7:04 PM

Getting someone else to adopted your ideas is good. Getting someone to think your idea was there idea is excellent.

VorDaj on June 17, 2013 at 7:09 PM

Progressivism is a cancer worse than any Middle Eastern terrorist.

tetriskid on June 17, 2013 at 6:52 PM

That’s what I’m coming around to believe.

I keep thinking back to right after 9/11 and Bush talking about how we can’t live in fear. Then he infiltrates our airports with the TSA, creates Homeland Security and the Patriot Act.

Well if that’s not living in fear then I don’t know what is.

hisfrogness on June 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM

Getting someone else to adopted your ideas is good. Getting someone to think your idea was there idea is excellent.

VorDaj on June 17, 2013 at 7:09 PM

Good point!

Liam on June 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM

Well if that’s not living in fear then I don’t know what is.
hisfrogness on June 17, 2013 at 7:10 PM

Well said.

Tho-No reason to fear the religion of peace either.

bazil9 on June 17, 2013 at 7:14 PM

I’m not ready to call Snowden a hero, but I’m not going to brand him a traitor yet either. I can understand him running so as not to be water-boarded by Obama’s Chicago Goon Squad… but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on June 17, 2013 at 7:28 PM

“Some Republicans, having now been forced to trust a president they loathe with massive domestic intelligence capabilities, will never again support government’s security prerogative the way they once did.”

what good is the Domestic spy program when, (despite being enacted before 9/11), it failed to prevent 9/11?

Today’s NSA Domestic Surveillance Program Began BEFORE 9/11 see here: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/10/nsa-asked-for-p/ and here; http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=abIV0cO64zJE and here; http://rawstory.com/news/2007/ATT_engineer_says_Bush_Administration_sought_1216.html

In 2001 the leading opponents of the patriot act, (Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and Sen. Russ Feingold), argued that the Government had already been conducting wireless surveillance, before 9/11, which did not prevent the 9/11 attack and therefore was unnecessary and unconstitutional. But then both Democratic U.S. Senators, received anthrax in their offices from (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, Maryland.

In 2012, congress reauthorized FISA which allowed NSA’s wiretapping to continue. Republicans overwhelming for it, democrats overwhelmingly against.

2010/2011
Patriot Act re-authorization
Republicans 196 FOR / 31 AGAINST
Democrats 54 FOR / 122 AGAINST

FISA Act re-authorization
Republicans 227 FOR / 7 AGAINST
Democrats 74 FOR /111 AGAINST

Here’s the votes link:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h569?hr5949

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 7:29 PM

A repudiation of my “tea partiers aren’t that libertarian” thesis or an illustration of it?

The Republican Party has been “libertarianizing” for a long time. For instance, you almost never hear from “law and order” conservatives anymore who support the police and local security services, like you did in the 80s and 90s. Quite a number of conservatives now view the police as the repressive tool of the state against a freedom-loving populace. This thing with the NSA is probably the final nail in the coffin for conservative support of the security services.

And of course the libertarian and conservative “small government” philosophies mesh quite well for the most part.

Libertarian foreign policy has also been creeping into conservative thinking as well. Note the universal revulsion on this board towards any further engagement in the Middle East, and likewise, I’ve seen considerable support for the removal of military bases in Europe.

Where I’m seeing potential for splits is arguments about social conservatism, open borders, and Israel. I don’t really see conservatives moving towards the libertarian position on any of those issues.

Doomberg on June 17, 2013 at 7:30 PM

“Some Republicans, having now been forced to trust a president they loathe with massive domestic intelligence capabilities, will never again support government’s security prerogative the way they once did.”

In 2012, congress reauthorized FISA which allowed NSA’s wiretapping to continue. Republicans overwhelming for it, democrats overwhelmingly against.

2010/2011
Patriot Act re-authorization
Republicans 196 FOR / 31 AGAINST
Democrats 54 FOR / 122 AGAINST

FISA Act re-authorization
Republicans 227 FOR / 7 AGAINST
Democrats 74 FOR /111 AGAINST

Here’s the votes link:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/112-2012/h569?hr5949

what good is the Domestic spy program when, (despite being enacted before 9/11), it failed to prevent 9/11?

Today’s NSA Domestic Surveillance Program Began BEFORE 9/11 see here; and here; and here; and here;

In 2001 the leading opponents of the patriot act, (Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and Sen. Russ Feingold), argued that the Government had already been conducting wireless surveillance, before 9/11, which did not prevent the 9/11 attack and therefore was unnecessary and unconstitutional. But then both Democratic U.S. Senators, received anthrax in their offices from (USAMRIID), Fort Detrick, Maryland.

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 7:32 PM

I would trade the whole GangBang Eight for Snowden in a heartbeat.

VorDaj on June 17, 2013 at 7:45 PM

Have fun

The entire gov’t is rogue.

Schadenfreude on June 17, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Exit question: How to reconcile Pew’s findings with this data from this morning’s CNN poll?

Easy…read the question!

And for the past few years the Obama administration has reportedly been gathering and analyzing information from major internet companies about audio and video chats, photographs, e-mails and documents involving people in other countries in an attempt to locate suspected terrorists. The government reportedly does not target internet usage by U.S. citizens and if such data is collected, it is kept under strict controls. Do you think the Obama administration was right or wrong in gathering and analyzing that internet data?

What a stupid question with 10,000 qualifiers…”if this” and “if that”!

It is like asking a question: If you were the sexist man alive would you use that to your advantage with women? Answer: Yes!

But I am not the sexist man alive, in fact I am bent over like the hunchback of Notre Dame, so that is not very useful to me….the question is about a fantasy government that does not really exist.

William Eaton on June 17, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Allah, the key difference is the way the question was phrased on the CNN poll. The CNN question mentions that it was an “Obama” idea (versus the far scarier “government” of Pew poll) and primes the respondent with a bunch of misleading phrases like “the government reportedly does not” and “strict controls” etc. etc.

This is a fairly standard tactic by pollsters who want to get a result that fits their narrative, which is precisely what CNN did here. Yet another reason why it’s important to look closely at what questions were asked and compare the responses to similar topics with different wordings.

HayekFriendlyCon on June 17, 2013 at 8:13 PM

I told you…there’s been such a hard swing to the left by hardcore conservatives because Obama is so massively right wing..and you all hate Obama. What better proof than an alliance by the most progressive people and the most hard right?

libfreeordie on June 17, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Drunk, stupid and homosexual is no way to go through life, princess.

Sober up before you type next time.

“…because Obama is so massively right wing…” BWAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on June 17, 2013 at 7:01 PM

I hope Rubio’s bill includes a big quota for ‘college perfessers’ because damn, pretty much anyone we import will raise their collective IQ.

slickwillie2001 on June 17, 2013 at 8:16 PM

All this boils down instead of liberal vs conservative to the individual vs the collective.

txmomof6 on June 17, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Gosh, I’m so shocked Tea Partiers think Snowden the Leftist Jackass who is now blathering about human rights and GITMO is a “hero”- what with the support he’s had from Hannity, Glenn Beck & Eric Bolling – to name a few dupes with a large audience.

Buy Danish on June 17, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Just a reminder that there’s a White House petition to pardon Snowden that will do absolutely nothing… except embarrass the administration (if that’s possible). 82,733 signatures already, 17,267 needed.

PersonFromPorlock on June 17, 2013 at 8:24 PM

O/T
Gen. Carter Ham will testify in a closed House Oversight hearing on the 26th.

US general to testify about Benghazi terror attacks, military response

jffree1 on June 17, 2013 at 8:31 PM

All of the bellow individuals came forward during the Bush administration and leaked information to the press that the NSA was unlawfully conducting a Domestic spy program on its own citizens since BEFORE 9/11.

Thomas Andrews Drake is a former senior executive of the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) and a decorated United States Air Force and United States Navy veteran.
William Binney is a decorated Vietnam Veteran who worked at the Army Security Agency before going to the NSA as a former highly placed intelligence official with the United States National Security Agency (NSA) that turned whistleblower after more than 30 years with the agency.
J. Kirk Wiebe is a former NSA senior analyst who was awarded the Meritorious Civilian Service Award, NSA’s second highest distinction. Wiebe developed a revolutionary information processing system called ThinThread. But the NSA wrongfully applied a component of the ThinThread system to illegally spy on the private communications of U.S. citizens so Wiebe became a whistleblower.
Russell D. Tice is a former intelligence analyst for the U.S. Air Force, Office of Naval Intelligence, Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), and National Security Agency (NSA). During his nearly 20 year career with various United States government agencies, he conducted intelligence missions related to the Kosovo War, Afghanistan, the USS Cole bombing in Yemen, and Operation Iraqi Freedom.

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 8:44 PM

I never thought TEA Party types were stupid till now. You are supporting a Chinese agent provocateur. Snowden is a traitor and a Chinese spy. His whole purpose for revealing the PRISM program was to take away our ability to criticize Chinese cyberspying.

fleiter on June 17, 2013 at 9:17 PM

You are supporting a Chinese agent provocateur. Snowden is a traitor and a Chinese spy.

fleiter on June 17, 2013 at 9:17 PM

When you prove that people might take you seriously. Til then most of us would choose to give the benefit of a doubt to any government critic and withhold it from any government stooge. The behavior of the government has reached such a point that it is the only logical thing to do without further concrete evidence one way or the other.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 9:22 PM

If you share the same feelings as young adults, chances are you are wrong.

The Notorious G.O.P on June 17, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Any poll that places the terms “Moderate/Conservative” in the Democrat /Lean Democrat Column is totally buggered right off the bat.

Afterseven on June 17, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Buy Danish on June 17, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Gosh I’m so shocked that a fanatical Mitt supporter is taking the establishment line on this issue and lovingly tonguing the scrotum of the surveillance state.

MadisonConservative on June 17, 2013 at 10:09 PM

And the Social Cons should get on board with a more libertarian outlook because the only way we won’t all be forced to bow at the alter of liberal social orthodoxy in every aspect of life is if we peel back the State. Just imagine the craziness of students being suspended for pop-tart guns applied to gay marriage, premarital sex, porn, abortion, etc etc.

Clark1 on June 17, 2013 at 7:08 PM

If “get[ting] on board” means compromising my morals and principals–it ain’t gonna happen.

There is a broad difference between libertarian and antinomian.

davidk on June 17, 2013 at 10:31 PM

When you prove that people might take you seriously.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 9:22 PM

When you stop acting so stupid you make the lovechild of Obama and Ann Coulter look intelligent, people might take you seriously.

Snowden is no more a hero than “Man”ning. In a sane world his near future would consist of harsh interrogation followed by being tied to a stake at a tank gunnery range.

MelonCollie on June 17, 2013 at 11:49 PM

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Thanks for your informative postings regarding Snowden/NSA background.

bluefox on June 17, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Snowden is no more a hero than “Man”ning. In a sane world his near future would consist of harsh interrogation followed by being tied to a stake at a tank gunnery range.

MelonCollie on June 17, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Sorry but I choose not to trust Obama or his flunkies. They have a track record of lies and breach of every oath they ever took.

Trust them if you like.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 11:53 PM

I never thought TEA Party types were stupid till now. You are supporting a Chinese agent provocateur. Snowden is a traitor and a Chinese spy. His whole purpose for revealing the PRISM program was to take away our ability to criticize Chinese cyberspying.

fleiter on June 17, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Oh please. Anyone who is informed on this subject cares not one whit about China’s feelings on spying. They spy on damn near everyone and hack into all areas not just military/political. And our Fed Gov. is gutless when it comes to dealing with China given trade issues.

oryguncon on June 18, 2013 at 12:07 AM

Snowden is no more a hero than “Man”ning. In a sane world his near future would consist of harsh interrogation followed by being tied to a stake at a tank gunnery range.
MelonCollie on June 17, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Agreed.

bluegill on June 18, 2013 at 12:14 AM

For those that may not have read the interview by USAToday and the former NSA whistleblowers regarding Snowden:

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2428809

Also: Edward Snowden Q&A

He will be online today from 11am ET/4pm BST today.

We expect the site to experience high demand so we’ll re-publish the Q&A in full after the live chat has finished.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-2%20Special%20trail:Network%20front%20-%20special%20trail:Position1

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 12:15 AM

O/T
Gen. Carter Ham will testify in a closed House Oversight hearing on the 26th.

US general to testify about Benghazi terror attacks, military response

jffree1 on June 17, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Thanks for posting that. A couple of others are also scheduled also later. Looking forward to some leaks from those hearings too.

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Sorry but I choose not to trust Obama or his flunkies. They have a track record of lies and breach of every oath they ever took.

Trust them if you like.

sharrukin on June 17, 2013 at 11:53 PM

Don’t be such a disingenuous dope. Brillo-head the Boy Wonder’s track record of lying his face off in no way makes Snowden anything more than another whelp with a big mouth and an invincibility complex that in anything but modern Western society would have gotten him dead in a painful, violent manner.

Don’t let one stopped-clock moment from a leftist buffoon fool you into thinking he’s the next Captain America.

MelonCollie on June 18, 2013 at 12:34 AM

Don’t let one stopped-clock moment from a leftist buffoon fool you into thinking he’s the next Captain America.

MelonCollie on June 18, 2013 at 12:34 AM

Five stopped clocks. Five.

There has been a total of 5 NSA Whistleblowers to come forward since 2001. 3 NSA Whistleblowers came out in 2001/2002 and one NSA Whistleblower came out in 2005 and another NSA Whistleblower came out in 2013.

All 5 NSA Whistleblowers became convinced that our fundamental constitutional rights were being violated, they complained first to their superiors, then to federal investigators, congressional oversight committees and, finally, all of them leaked info to the news media.

All 5 of the NSA Whistleblowers have said the same thing as Snowden and those NSA Whistleblowers that have been interviewed to comment on Snowden have said he is only mentioning the tip of the iceberg.
Thomas Drake, William Binney, J. Kirk Wiebe, Russell D. Tice, and Edward Joseph Snowden.

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM

sharrukin on June 18, 2013 at 12:39 AM

JustTheFacts on June 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM

sharrukin on June 18, 2013 at 12:39 AM

Some people have their own ideas and don’t want to be confused with any facts that don’t agree with them.

The left always smear the messenger and ignore the message. If it weren’t for the previous whistleblowers we would have not known anyhing about NSA. And it it weren’t for Snowden, we would not have known anything about our phones/emails and our rights being violated.

It used to be the left would violate our rights “for the children”.
Now it’s due to “terrorists”

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 12:48 AM

The left always smear the messenger and ignore the message. If it weren’t for the previous whistleblowers we would have not known anyhing about NSA. And it it weren’t for Snowden, we would not have known anything about our phones/emails and our rights being violated.

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 12:48 AM

MelonCollie isn’t a leftie, but some on the right have difficulty separating a real call regarding national security from the scoundrels who wrap themselves in the flag as a means to obscure their own misconduct.

sharrukin on June 18, 2013 at 1:01 AM

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 12:48 AM

MelonCollie isn’t a leftie, but some on the right have difficulty separating a real call regarding national security from the scoundrels who wrap themselves in the flag as a means to obscure their own misconduct.

sharrukin on June 18, 2013 at 1:01 AM

Perhaps, but it doesn’t help when we use the language or tactics of the left. Regarding the Snowden issue, more and more is coming out. I think we need to weigh everything instead of making a snap judgement. When someone puts their life on the line to reveal info about what the government is doing against American Citizens, then we need to take that seriously.

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 1:19 AM

When someone puts their life on the line to reveal info about what the government is doing against American Citizens, then we need to take that seriously.

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 1:19 AM

Fully agree. I think some folks need to start taking the founders seriously regarding their warnings not to place their trust in government.

sharrukin on June 18, 2013 at 1:23 AM

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 1:19 AM

Fully agree. I think some folks need to start taking the founders seriously regarding their warnings not to place their trust in government.

sharrukin on June 18, 2013 at 1:23 AM

That is true and we should have taken heed years ago. I know President Reagan said “trust but verify”, but better to verify if trust should be given. We trusted and never verified.

Take Rubio for example. His record as Speaker in Florida regarding Immigration was known, but it wasn’t brought out when he was running for the Senate. His pro-amnesty position now is clearly understood when reading his record.

bluefox on June 18, 2013 at 1:38 AM

The one way the Repubs survive is going Libertarian.

antisense on June 17, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Yes, totally agree. They oughta just keep lickin’ their fingers and stickin’ ‘em up in the air . After all thats has worked sooooo well the last two elections.

cableguy615 on June 18, 2013 at 6:25 AM

We won’t know until there’s a Republican in the White House again.

.
Republicans: the party that Democrats blame for everything they did.

ExpressoBold on June 18, 2013 at 7:53 AM

I remain grateful to Snowden for revealing to the whole world the mass and illegal (violation of the Fourth Amendment)surveillance of Americans by the NSA. A crime so great that it overrides the criminality Snowden displayed in spilling the beans.Without Snowden, the NSA would have covered up (or laughed off as ‘ridiculous’) any suggestion that mass and illegal spying was going on. In fact its director Clapper so stated before a congressional committee.The Obama Administration is so adroit at covering its tracks that not only would the allegations of NSA mass spying be completely covered up but the counter charges of “political Republican witch hunt” would be totally believed.

MaiDee on June 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM

young adults — and tea partiers
A coalition made in Hell

J_Crater on June 17, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Yeah, because OLD PEOPLE and PARTY HACKS have done such a great job running this country into the dirt.

Give me a break.

fatlibertarianinokc on June 18, 2013 at 3:55 PM