Quotes of the day

posted at 10:41 pm on June 10, 2013 by Allahpundit

The impact of the leak inside the NSA has been enormous. “There is complete freakout mode at the agency right now,” one former intelligence officer tells The Daily Beast. “There has never been anything like this in terms of the speed of referral of a crime report to the Justice Department. Normally this kind of thing takes weeks and weeks.”…

Hayden dismissed the criticism that terrorists already knew the NSA was collecting vast amounts of telephone metadata before Snowden’s leak.

“Let me get this right: I got a religious fanatic in the cave in the Hindu Kush, yet this is a front-page, above-the-fold story and he already knew this?” he asked rhetorically. “That does not make sense. It will teach guys to be far more cautious in the future.”

***

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) on Monday said the 29-year-old man who leaked information about two national security programs is guilty of treason…

“I don’t look at this as being a whistleblower. I think it’s an act of treason,” the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee told reporters…

“He violated the oath, he violated the law. It’s treason.”

***

In my estimation, there has not been in American history a more important leak than Edward Snowden’s release of NSA material – and that definitely includes the Pentagon Papers 40 years ago. Snowden’s whistleblowing gives us the possibility to roll back a key part of what has amounted to an “executive coup” against the US constitution

Obviously, the United States is not now a police state. But given the extent of this invasion of people’s privacy, we do have the full electronic and legislative infrastructure of such a state. If, for instance, there was now a war that led to a large-scale anti-war movement – like the one we had against the war in Vietnam – or, more likely, if we suffered one more attack on the scale of 9/11, I fear for our democracy. These powers are extremely dangerous…

[W]ith Edward Snowden having put his life on the line to get this information out, quite possibly inspiring others with similar knowledge, conscience and patriotism to show comparable civil courage – in the public, in Congress, in the executive branch itself – I see the unexpected possibility of a way up and out of the abyss.

Pressure by an informed public on Congress to form a select committee to investigate the revelations by Snowden and, I hope, others to come might lead us to bring NSA and the rest of the intelligence community under real supervision and restraint and restore the protections of the bill of rights.

***

Edward Snowden should go to jail, as quickly and for as long as possible. This is a leak case that should be difficult for even Eric Holder to bungle. Snowden has already confessed in public to the crime of leaking classified information. He has said in public how he did it, that he did it with intent, and that he knowingly harmed our national security. Holder will finally find a leaker that he can prosecute. But given the Holder Justice Department’s record on the other leak cases, who wants to take a bet that Snowden gets a generous plea bargain or even walks?

Snowden might be guilty of espionage, or even treason. If he is telling the truth that he leaked the existence of the PRISM program to inform the American public, then he should turn himself in. A trial would give him the opportunity to explain in public why he broke the law. If he is a spy — it is amazing that someone with such little education and background was given such extensive security clearance — he may well continue running abroad. It is telling that he immediately fled to Hong Kong; one wonders whether he will offer his services and knowledge to the Chinese security services next.

***

As I have argued in other contexts, the best weapon against the paralysis of technologically induced present shock is human intervention. Just as we the people stood against the structural tyranny of an overreaching monarchy, it is we the people who must stand against the structural tyranny of runaway technology.

Snowden is a hero because he realized that our very humanity was being compromised by the blind implementation of machines in the name of making us safe. Unlike those around him, who were too absorbed in their task to reflect on their actions and pause in their pursuit of digital omniscience, Snowden allowed himself to be “disturbed” by what he was doing.

More in the midst of technology than most of us will ever be, Snowden disengaged for long enough to be human and to consider the impact of what he was helping build. He pressed pause.

Thank heavens our intelligence agencies are staffed by people like Snowden, not robots. People can still think.

***

Once again, the tanks-have-rolled left and the black-helicopters right have joined together in howls of protest. They were set off by last week’s revelations that the U.S. government has been collecting data that disclose the fact, but not the content, of electronic communications within the country, as well as some content data outside the U.S. that does not focus on American citizens. Once again, the outrage of the left-right coalition is misdirected…

Some wallow in the idea that they are being watched, their civil liberties endangered, simply because a handful of electrons they generated were among the vast billions being reviewed in a high-stakes antiterrorism effort. Of course, many are motivated politically or ideologically to oppose robust intelligence-gathering aimed at fending off Islamist terrorism. Criticism from that quarter can be left to lie where it fell…

Real damage was done last week by Edward Snowden, who on Sunday claimed credit for leaking the secrets he learned while working for NSA contractors. Every time we tell terrorists how we can detect them, we encourage them to find ways to avoid detection…

If the current imbroglio opens an honest discussion of the legitimate need for secrecy in a fight against seventh-century primitives equipped with 21st-century technology, it may eventually prove to have been worth the cost, but I’m not laying down any bets.

***

Monitoring the records of as many as a billion phone calls, as some news reports have suggested, is no modest invasion of privacy. It is an extraordinary invasion of privacy. We fought a revolution over issues like generalized warrants, where soldiers would go from house to house, searching anything they liked. Our lives are now so digitized that the government going from computer to computer or phone to phone is the modern equivalent of the same type of tyranny that our Founders rebelled against…

The administration has responded to the public uproar by simply claiming that it is allowed to have unlimited access to all Americans’ private information. This response is a clear indication that the president views our Constitutional “right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects” as null and void.

If this is the new normal in America, then Big Brother certainly is watching and it’s not hyperbolic or extreme to say so. Nor is it unreasonable to fear which parts of the Constitution this government will next consider negotiable or negligible.

***

There is an instinct, indulged by journalists and activists, to reflexively anoint the leaker—or the whistleblower, depending on your point of view—saintly status. And the braying mobs of Snowden supporters, who nicely overlap with the passionate Julian Assange fans and Ron Paul devotees (Snowden himself donated $500 to Paul’s campaign in 2012), will doubtless dismiss any incertitude as the grumblings of Obama administration flunkies or Bush nostalgics.

Well, no. Even a generous reading of the programs exposed by Snowden should deeply trouble those of us who are skeptical of the ever-growing American security state. And even if the administration’s explanations and justifications of the NSA’s snooping programs are to be trusted—the program foiled terror attacks, was focused only on foreign nationals, and no calls were listened to, etc.—it nevertheless raises ethical and moral issues that demand further public debate, as Snowden said an interview with The Guardian…

The Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald, the indefatigable writer who broke the NSA story, has hinted that more documents are to come, and it’s possible that further evidence could clarify the story and add much-needed detail to the growing outrage. But until we know more, let’s take a few breaths and resist the insta-consecration of Edward Snowden.

***

***

Via Mediaite.

***

Via Reddit.


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I’d also be curious to know what oath Snowden “broke”, since he apparently was never admitted into the military, and was only a contractor for the CIA. What oath would he ever have taken? And anyone who says the Pledge of Allegiance gets my pimp hand up their head.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:07 PM

They do have to take oaths in the CIA and NSA, both of whom he worked for before the contractor. He was stationed with the CIA in Geneva.

Also, Snowden supposedly enlisted in the Army and was later honourably discharged after breaking both legs in a training accident.

As for being a contractor, he would have had to sign a confidentiality agreement, which includes an implied oath.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:18 PM

MEANWHILE – THIS ADMINISTRATION MURDERED FOUR INNOCENT AMERICANS IN BENGHAZI!!

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

They were shooting for around 30, but a couple of courageous and self sacrificing former Navy Seals interfered.

VorDaj on June 10, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Many of you are such lemmings, jumping on the hysterical “we’re in a police state!” bandwagon because you heard Rush or Beck say this was Obama’s coup attempt.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

All you missed is “Quit listening to Faux News!”

Are you quite sure you aren’t a liberal, because you comment just like a liberal.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:19 PM

Let me help you out: SNOWDEN IS A TRAITOR WHO HAS INCREASED THE POSSIBILITY OF FUTURE TERRORIST ATTACKS SUCCEEDING.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Snowden is a patriot who realizes that we’re in more danger from our government than any Islamic psychopath. Terrorists have managed to kill a whopping three Americans on our home soil in the last year, and you think that justifies complete sacrifice of our privacy in communications.

You deserve your chains.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:19 PM

Wow. A very rare Golden Bishop! Congrats, Bmore.

Eddie Snowden, neither traitor nor hero. Discuss amongst yourselves.

Fallon on June 10, 2013 at 10:45 PM

ANGING from the beam,
Slowing swaying (such the law),
Gaunt the shadow on your green,
Shenandoah!
The cut is on the crown
(Lo, John Brown),
And the stabs shall heal no more.

Hidden in the cap
Is the anguish none can draw;
So your future veils its face,
Shenandoah!
But the streaming beard is shown
(Weird John Brown),
The meteor of the war.

Herman Melville, THE PORTENT(1859)

Snowden is the meteor of the Age of O….

William Eaton on June 10, 2013 at 11:20 PM

What ever would we do without the most precious bluegshrill chiming in with her pearls of wisdom?

Thanks, honey, we hate love you! For you, alone!

Ugly Kid Joe – “Everything About You”

:)

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:20 PM

This is what many of you are cheering.

blueball on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

…I think…you’re a cousin… of the diCk family!

KOOLAID2 on June 10, 2013 at 11:20 PM

One thing I do know, Lois Lerner is a hero for taking the fifth…just think who she would have had to give up!

d1carter on June 10, 2013 at 11:20 PM

I’d also be curious to know what oath Snowden “broke”, since he apparently was never admitted into the military, and was only a contractor for the CIA. What oath would he ever have taken? And anyone who says the Pledge of Allegiance gets my pimp hand up their head.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:07 PM

I assume he signed something that said he won’t take his work home with him.

Ronnie on June 10, 2013 at 11:20 PM

Many of you are such lemmings, jumping on the hysterical “we’re in a police state!” bandwagon because you heard Rush or Beck say this was Obama’s coup attempt.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

Which explains why my position has remained unchanged even though, I believe, Rush was on vacay last week and Beck, to my knowledge, has said nothing about ‘Obama’s coup attempt.’

Bluegill, yews bees so smaht.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:21 PM

I can’t keep track! Too many scandals.

KCB on June 10, 2013 at 11:21 PM

Good night B!

KCB on June 10, 2013 at 11:21 PM

Shame on anyone who supports this tyrannical government for the illusion of safety.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

Especially as it’s not even a very good illusion. Being shameful or eing stupid is one thing, but combining the two is unforgivable.

VorDaj on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Haven’t decided yet, eh? Worried about losing your cred on here by saying the “wrong” thing?

Let me help you out: SNOWDEN IS A TRAITOR WHO HAS INCREASED THE POSSIBILITY OF FUTURE TERRORIST ATTACKS SUCCEEDING.

I’m not afraid to say it. Hope I helped clear things up.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:17 PM

You’re an excitable little chap, aren’t you?

You surrendered, I get that.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

I am very concerned about preventing terrorist attacks, and I want the NSA to have every tool available to help do so. What Snowden did was increase the probability of future terrorist attacks succeeding. This is what many of you are cheering.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

Monitoring all the electronic communications of somewhere between a quarter of a billion and half a billion people in order to attempt to pattern-recognize the treat posed by one or two people every few years before it happens?

The scale is so wrong, the solution weighed against the problem, that some paranoia is probably justified. It’s also a wholesale giving over of our resistance to the idea that we’re innocent until we’re proven guilty. This is insurance check-points gone Borg.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Or maybe you are licking your chops, giddily thinking that this will finally be the thing that brings down Obama. Well, it won’t be, and Obama is going to be gone in just a couple years anyway.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

Our country and her liberty, security and prosperity mean everything to us,
Idi Hussein is not above my country.
I hope he fails !! So my country can succeed !

burrata on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Beck hasn’t been wrong much. Look where we’re at.

wolly4321 on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:08 PM

So everybody is a traitor, even the champions of freedom and liberty who’ve risked all to expose tyranny? Alrighty, then…. I guess the founding fathers were traitors too, by some standards, but at least they were on the side of freedom and liberty so I guess if everybody is a traitor, at least they were my kind of traitors.

FloatingRock on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Lol! Hows my favorite little piggy been?

Bmore on June 10, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Just fine sir. Worried about you. If you would have got a couple of Mexicans you could have had that bunker already up and good to go. Instead you tried to do it on the cheap.

arnold ziffel on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

“Let me get this right: I got a religious fanatic in the cave in the Hindu Kush, yet this is a front-page, above-the-fold story and he already knew this?” he asked rhetorically. “That does not make sense. It will teach guys to be far more cautious in the future.”

Well they did manage to view that YouTube video….

can_con on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

They do have to take oaths in the CIA and NSA, both of whom he worked for before the contractor. He was stationed with the CIA in Geneva.

Also, Snowden supposedly enlisted in the Army and was later honourably discharged after breaking both legs in a training accident.

As for being a contractor, he would have had to sign a confidentiality agreement, which includes an implied oath.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Interesting. I read that it was the injury that actually prevented him from successfully enlisting.

And a confidentiality agreement is a contract, not an oath. They are very different things, particularly with regard to the law.

If he did work for the CIA at some point, however, you would be right. Eh, well. Most oaths I hear talk about enemies foreign AND domestic, which means he lived up to it. I might be willing to cast a stone if not for the IRS revelation. However, ever since hearing about it, I’ve woken up to the fact that I pay money towards a group of people that want nothing more than to shut me up. F**k ‘em all.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Keep Hope Alive.

Good Night All.

Bmore on June 10, 2013 at 11:21 PM

…U…B…Good!

KOOLAID2 on June 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

*threat. Not treat. :)

Maybe treat. Depends who you ask, I guess.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

Philoso-raptor: http://9gag.com/gag/awr0oMD

His actions are probably going to get people killed.

crosspatch on June 10, 2013 at 10:54 PM

.
The NYT had over 36 sources from the Obama Administration feeding them operational security information, captured data information and a HOST of other classified details so they could write a HOSANNA to The Won for killing UBL.

I missed it … were you on here calling for the SCOAMF’s head or the heads of the NYT writers who published all of those secrets which definitely led to the deaths of American service people???

I must have missed the part where senior members of the SCOAMF’s intelligence team were indicted for providing classified operational and technology details to the makers of “Zero Dark Thirty”.

Congratulations on being perfectly aligned with Dianne Feinstein on this issue, btw.

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:08 PM

I’ll be away for a few hours but may be back later to catch up.

FloatingRock on June 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:16 PM

HA! I KNEW that would get ya.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

I don’t want to be algorithmed.

wolly4321 on June 10, 2013 at 11:24 PM

Solar Rain…

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sdo/news/coronal-rain.html

w/music

Solaratov on June 10, 2013 at 11:25 PM

My Latest Favorite Quote from James Clapper:

CLAPPER: I ANSWERED IN ‘LEAST UNTRUTHFUL MANNER’

…..surprised he didn’t just say: “mmmBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!”

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:25 PM

You’re an excitable little chap, aren’t you?

You surrendered, I get that.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

She didn’t just surrender, she walk to the camp and locked the door behind her.

RickB on June 10, 2013 at 11:26 PM

I am very concerned about preventing terrorist attacks, and I want the NSA to have every tool available to help do so. What Snowden did was increase the probability of future terrorist attacks succeeding. This is what many of you are cheering.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

Oh please. Obama had multiple tips from Russia, an overstayed visa and a plane ticket to Chechnya and he couldn’t stop the attack in Boston. We should cheer the status quo instead?

Ronnie on June 10, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Anyway, I haven’t been this angry since long before The Traitor got re-elected and put my spirit into a coma. Rest time. Night, all. When you wake up tomorrow, think about one thing you can do to frustrate the efforts to monitor you, and put it into action.

You know, you can get Visa gift cards at many stores, for cash. Nothing to link back to you. You can even use them to pay for pre-paid phones, that aren’t linked to you. Also, ever heard of Bitcoins? Might want to check them out.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:27 PM

HA! I KNEW that would get ya.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:23 PM

You totally cheat. :)

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:28 PM

Many of you are such lemmings, jumping on the hysterical “we’re in a police state!” bandwagon because you heard Rush or Beck say this was Obama’s coup attempt.

blueball on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

…I’m a conservative…I’m a conservative…Mark Levin is nuts too…I’m a conservative….I’m a conservative…I’m a conservative…I’m a conservative…I’M NUCKING FUTS!…is what I am!

KOOLAID2 on June 10, 2013 at 11:28 PM

My Latest Favorite Quote from James Clapper:

CLAPPER: I ANSWERED IN ‘LEAST UNTRUTHFUL MANNER’

…..surprised he didn’t just say: “mmmBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!”

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:25 PM

So now we have categories of lying. This must have been a “Lite lie.”

arnold ziffel on June 10, 2013 at 11:29 PM

I am very concerned about preventing terrorist attacks, and I want the NSA to have every tool available to help do so. What Snowden did was increase the probability of future terrorist attacks succeeding. This is what many of you are cheering.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

What you are cheering is the demise of liberty in exchange for lies.

VorDaj on June 10, 2013 at 11:30 PM

Gold!!!

Bmore on June 10, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Congrats Bmore!!

bluefox on June 10, 2013 at 11:30 PM

I am very concerned about preventing terrorist attacks, and I want the NSA to have every tool available to help do so. What Snowden did was increase the probability of future terrorist attacks succeeding. This is what many of you are cheering.

bluegill on June 10, 2013 at 11:12 PM

Well considering they did such a bang up job stopping Boston I can only assume that probability will be what a little more…

9-11 could have been stopped if the INS did their job, and the FBI & CIA sat down and talked to each other. All the evidence was there yet they did nothing due to incompetence. We don’t need these NSA tools to stop jihadist, we don’t need the Patriot Act either for that matter. Now we might need the NSA programs to stop the Chinese, because they are not 7th century rejects.

But none of this matters because the NSA is a collector of data, it is up to other people to figure out what that data means and considering those other people live in a fantasy world where Moderate Islam exist and Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, I seriously doubt even with every unconstitutional thing the NSA has done it will do much good in stopping Jihadist attacks on infidels in America.

William Eaton on June 10, 2013 at 11:30 PM

Hassan: Workplace Violence

Snowden: Treason

Conservatism: Thought Crime

Welcome to The Obamanation…

wytshus on June 10, 2013 at 11:30 PM

Interesting. I read that it was the injury that actually prevented him from successfully enlisting.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Not according to The Guardian and his own wiki page.

And a confidentiality agreement is a contract, not an oath. They are very different things, particularly with regard to the law.

You don’t say! I should just tear up my law school diploma and bar certificate. I’m sooooooo stupid.

Seriously, let’s look at what I ACTUALLY wrote, shall we?

As for being a contractor, he would have had to sign a confidentiality agreement, which includes an implied oath.

When one signs a CA, he is promising not to disclose certain confidential information. Inasmuch as ‘your word is (supposed to be) your bond,’ there is an implied oath in these types of contracts. As I said, it is implied and is not really relevant in a breach of contract dispute. Disclosure of information is sufficient to prove a breach.

Having said that, if the NDA was notarised, which is what I’ve done with many non-disclosure agreements in the past, there is an oath involved.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:31 PM

So everybody is a traitor, even the champions of freedom and liberty who’ve risked all to expose tyranny? Alrighty, then….

FloatingRock on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Everybody who supported Barky in any way are traitors. Yes. And this Indonesian-style tyranny led by the retarded Sukarno knock-off was never hidden from anyone. There was nothing to really expose. We all knew quite well what treasonous criminals were in charge of the Executive arms of power of the feral government. This was no secret. There have been more than enough public, known, OBVIOUS acts of treason and lesser criminality by Barky and his junta to put them all away. Every week we’ve gotten new examples of such.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:31 PM

You know, you can get Visa gift cards at many stores, for cash. Nothing to link back to you.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Except your facial image stored on a database in a giant building somewhere out in the desert.

And that shirt you were wearing at the time, the one with the Gadsden logo? Oooooohhhhh…bad choice of fashion, my friend, because you just got on a couple of extra lists that you don’t want to be on.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:31 PM

I don’t want to be algorithmed.

Inshallah!

derit on June 10, 2013 at 11:31 PM

I mean, it’s nice to see who really pulls through in the clutch…but it’s scary to see how many so-called conservatives appear to have Stockholm Syndrome Cranial Rectal Juxtaposition.

MadisonConservative on June 10, 2013 at 11:13 PM

VorDaj on June 10, 2013 at 11:34 PM

MEANWHILE – THIS ADMINISTRATION MURDERED FOUR INNOCENT AMERICANS IN BENGHAZI!!

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

They were shooting for around 30, but a couple of courageous and self sacrificing former Navy Seals interfered.

VorDaj on June 10, 2013 at 11:18 PM

BINGO!!, VorDaj!!

THAT is Debt that is being IGNORED and NEEDS TO BE PAID!!!

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Ugly Kid Joe – “Everything About You”

:)

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:20 PM

Good one :)

Jackalope on June 10, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Us whacko birds say he is a hero. The traitor is Rubio. Rand/Cruz ’16.

HICON on June 10, 2013 at 11:36 PM

My Latest Favorite Quote from James Clapper:

CLAPPER: I ANSWERED IN ‘LEAST UNTRUTHFUL MANNER’

…..surprised he didn’t just say: “mmmBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!”

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:25 PM

“I hope that you understand there’s a reason why…”

Fleetwood Mac – “Little Lies”

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:36 PM

You’re an excitable little chap, aren’t you?

You surrendered, I get that.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM


Maybe you can help me understand the idiotic “A TRAITOR WHO HAS INCREASED THE POSSIBILITY OF FUTURE TERRORIST ATTACKS SUCCEEDING” line of reasoning?

When did they turn PRISM and the other systems off?

If the Islamofacist is hiding in a cave, how does he get cell phone reception so the NSA can track his metadata?

In the movie “Zero Dark Thirty”, the self righteous White House guys down play the possibility of the person of interest in Abottadad being UBL by ssaying he is only exhibiting the same level of op-sec as the head of a drug cartel would use. Doesn’t this basically mean ANYBODY in Al Qaeda above the level of suicide bomber would know the U.S. is using EVERY possible means of tracking their electronic communications?

I am only asking you, Bishop, because unlike some of the raving lunatics crying “TREASON” for someone documenting for the public what the White House APPROVED for “Zero Dark Thirty”, you have shown an ability for critical thinking.

Thanks.

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

But given the Holder Justice Department’s record on the other leak cases, who wants to take a bet that Snowden gets a generous plea bargain or even walks?

Idi Hussein will have him killed.
Mark my words.

burrata on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

FloatingRock,

I guess you liked the way Snowden idolized the Chinese and their “free” government … just like the rest of the treasonous dems have been doing since their Indonesian slimed into office.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

You totally cheat. :)

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:28 PM

Nah, my little Stradivarius.

*snicker*

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

I am so pissed about all of this……….I need to calm down………..

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:38 PM

I don’t want to be algorithmed.

wolly4321 on June 10, 2013 at 11:24 PM

Sure you do, Citizen, it’s for your own good.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:39 PM

And that shirt you were wearing at the time, the one with the Gadsden logo? Oooooohhhhh…bad choice of fashion, my friend, because you just got on a couple of extra lists that you don’t want to be on.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:31 PM

They don’t have the ability to do it. I mean, really, truly complete the loop.

The more the government is adversarial — and the more law it creates, the more adversarial it is — the more us vs. them thinking people do. “We the people” is just out.

The more us vs. them thinking people do, the harder it is to find good citizens like bluegill. Everyone is engaging in civil disobedience. In the CCCP, there were two societies, the real one and the public face.

They are building the one, and we’ll build the other. And all that assumes they succeed.

The ideas can survive if we want them to.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:39 PM

Good one :)

Jackalope on June 10, 2013 at 11:34 PM

^5!

bluegshrill is just so adorable, isn’t she?

PS GO HAWKS!!! :)

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:40 PM

Good evening all. BRU-TAL day for Jackalope. Good to be here!
My $0.02 on this: 1) I think we don’t have the full story yet on this and I’m not about to trust this Snowden guy 100%. 2) The Treason accusations are way overboard at this point. 3) This ‘scandal’ is more significant due to the context of all of the other scandals going on now.

There is way more that’s going to come out on this, and on the other scandals, and probably more new scandals too.

Jackalope on June 10, 2013 at 11:44 PM

Plus every living Jihadist knows that using your cell phone will get you droned. It is an idiot test. If the Jihadist uses his cell phone he obviously is not a threat because he is too stupid to be one.

This has been known for almost a decade now by them. Why do people think OBL was using pony express to deliver his messages. What because he had bad credit or did not pay his bills…

William Eaton on June 10, 2013 at 11:45 PM

I am so pissed about all of this……….I need to calm down………..

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:38 PM

“Have another hit…of Fresh Air”

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:45 PM

I am so pissed about all of this……….I need to calm down………..

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Silly to let yourself get pushed around that way. :)

. . . If it’s not under your control, and you are frustrated, you are allowing yourself to be distracted. Think about what you can actually do, and the frustration stops.

^ Crap I tell myself. All true, by the way — but hard to listen to when I’m pissed.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:46 PM

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

Critical thinking? Me? Uhhh…

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:47 PM

I think we need to more about the judges that are authorizing government officials to wiretap reporters and those that are authorizing the NSA data storage…
Do the judges take on face value what government officials tell them?

d1carter on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

The scale is so wrong, the solution weighed against the problem, that some paranoia is probably justified. It’s also a wholesale giving over of our resistance to the idea that we’re innocent until we’re proven guilty. This is insurance check-points gone Borg.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:22 PM

.
Here is a philosophical conundrum for you, RWM, Bishop, Bmore, Scrumpy, ALT, gg, novaculus and all the others who actually engage in thought rather than regurgitation of liberal/fascist/spiritual children talking points.

Is it better to monitor the world with PRISM and other related systems and thereby eviscerate the rights spelled out in our Constitution for billions of people (which means by the way – we ARE already worse than the enemies we are supposedly trying to defeat)?

OR

Is it better to take a large number of tactical nuclear weapons and wipe the known terrorist strongholds from the face of the Earth? (You know, like Russia or China would do if faced with a problem of the same scale.)

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

FloatingRock,

I guess you liked the way Snowden idolized the Chinese and their “free” government … just like the rest of the treasonous dems have been doing since their Indonesian slimed into office.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

It will be interesting to see what the Chinese do. You’d have to assume that Chinese agents will pick him up for a conversation and to start dialogue, with special interest in learning more about his plans and possibly the price he’s willing to pay for full protection against extradition.

For such a supposed patriot, it’s hard to understand why Hong Kong was his destination, other than the obvious fact that it’s far less subject to US influence than countries in S. America or Europe.

bayam on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Critical thinking? Me? Uhhh…

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:47 PM


LOL!
or you could just reat them as rhetorical questions.

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:49 PM

^ Crap I tell myself. All true, by the way — but hard to listen to when I’m pissed.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:46 PM

‘Zactly!

True dat, Axe!

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:50 PM

We go back in time to the Braggar-In-Chief:
——————————————-

Obama campaign brags about its whistleblower persecutions
Sept. 5 2012
************

Excuse me if I don’t join in Democrats’ sycophantic cheerleading for an Obama presidency that has shredded laws and liberties
____________________________________________________________

For several decades, protection of whistleblowers has been a core political value for Democrats,

at least for progressives.

Daniel Ellsberg has long been viewed by liberals as an American hero for his disclosure of the top secret Pentagon Papers.

In 2008,
********

candidate Obama hailed whistleblowing as

“acts of courage and patriotism”,
**********************************

which “should be encouraged
***************************

rather than stifled
*******************

as they have been during the Bush administration”.
**************************************************

President Obama,

however, has waged the most aggressive and vindictive assault on whistleblowers of any president in American history,

as even political magazines generally supportive of him have recognized and condemned.

One might think that, as the party’s faithful gather to celebrate the greatness of this leader,

this fact would be a minor problem, a source of some tension between Obama and his hardest-core supporters, perhaps even some embarrassment. One would be wrong.

Far from shying away from this record of persecuting whistleblowers,

the Obama campaign

is proudly boasting of it.

A so-called “Truth Team” of the Obama/Biden 2012 campaign

issued a document responding to allegations that the Obama White House has leaked classified information in order to glorify the president:
(More………..)
=================

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/05/obama-campaign-brags-about-whistleblower-persecutions

canopfor on June 10, 2013 at 11:50 PM

Do the judges take on face value what government officials tell them?

d1carter on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

.
Only 99% of the time.

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:50 PM

The Lamps Of Liberty Are Going Out All Over America. Shall We See Them Lit Again In Our Lifetime?

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 10:47 PM

AND THUS, AMERICA MOVES INTO 1984…NOT WITH A SHOUT, OR A MOAN, NOT EVEN A WHIMPER….JUST THE SMALLEST OF SIGHS…AS WHEN THE BREATH LEAVES A DYING SOUL…

lovingmyUSA on June 10, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Good evening all. BRU-TAL day for Jackalope. Good to be here!
My $0.02 on this: 1) I think we don’t have the full story yet on this and I’m not about to trust this Snowden guy 100%. 2) The Treason accusations are way overboard at this point. 3) This ‘scandal’ is more significant due to the context of all of the other scandals going on now.

There is way more that’s going to come out on this, and on the other scandals, and probably more new scandals too.

Jackalope on June 10, 2013 at 11:44 PM

1) I agree with your point about Snowden

2) I disagree that saying “treason” is overboard – how is having disdain for the idea of 3 coequal branches of our government, something many defenders of the NSA have shown they are guilty of, not treasonous?

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:51 PM

But, hey, college graduates, don’t listen to people who tell you the government is out to get you.

John the Libertarian on June 10, 2013 at 11:51 PM

I am so pissed about all of this……….I need to calm down………..

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:38 PM

“Have another hit…of Fresh Air”

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Heh! In the “old days”…….I might have done just that…….

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:52 PM

Self Esteem.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

For such a supposed patriot, it’s hard to understand why Hong Kong was his destination, other than the obvious fact that it’s far less subject to US influence than countries in S. America or Europe.

bayam on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

You should understand it because you and all of your treasonous democrat filth buddies have been pining for Chinese style rule in this nation ever since you helped your ineligible, America-hating retard from Indonesia slime into an office that he is neither eligible for nor even close to qualified for.

Your questions about China ought to be directed at Tom Friedman, Barky and the rest of the traitorous dems who have longed for Chinese forms of government power, here … which they have actually implemented, as we see.

You and yours are pure, treasonous scum. And you love being ruled by a third world half-wit, too.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Is it better to take a large number of tactical nuclear weapons and wipe the known terrorist strongholds from the face of the Earth? (You know, like Russia or China would do if faced with a problem of the same scale.)

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

They nuked Chechnya right off the map.

RickB on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Nah, my little Stradivarius.

*snicker*

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 11:37 PM

lol

Eveline – “She’s From Mars”

:)

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Do the judges take on face value what government officials tell them?

d1carter on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

They have no choice if they want their family and friends on taxpayer funded lavish lifestyles and benefits

burrata on June 10, 2013 at 11:56 PM

Yeah, ‘cuz Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar didn’t have a clue that they were being tracked by their phones.

Bin Laden quit using electronic communications years before he was killed precisely because he knew the government was tracking him that way. And, Mullah Omar, the one-eyed, goat-herding leader of the Taliban, who may very well have spent years in a cave, has remained free because he isn’t, evidently, using electronic communications.

PUH-lease.

Resist We Much on June 10, 2013 at 10:51 PM

Yeah, I think anyone who’s ever watched Casino and the recounting of Anthony Spilotro’s evasion of FBI surveillance 30 years ago have figured out that if you’re doing something illegal, you avoid electronic communications.

If you’re a real dumba$$ and are up to something, they won’t need hi-tech to catch you anyway.

So if you are going about your business and not planning anything, then why should you be surveilled?

This is no different than the police doing their roadblocks or randomly pulling people over in the hopes that they can catch someone doing something illegal.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 10, 2013 at 11:56 PM

Really? More censoring what media can be consumed by the military?

Jackalope on June 10, 2013 at 11:57 PM

Critical thinking? Me? Uhhh…

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:47 PM

Bishop:

You lucky b*stard,so your in Camp Section “C”,
Critical Thinking Sector!

(sarc):)

canopfor on June 10, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:39 PM

I like to think that, then another pod opens and a new government face-hugger leaps out to try and infect us again. A new scandal every day and they all indicate a secret government acting outside their own boundaries, doing what they like while we go on with our lives. Congress if feckless and inept, they can’t even purge the obvious known criminals from their own ranks, so who speaks for us.

Maybe that’s more dramatic than it actually is, but a majority of my fellow citizens seem to have given up. They chose easy, they chose the smooth-talking cool guy because they wanted to believe what he said no matter how stupid it all sounded in retrospect.

Bishop on June 10, 2013 at 11:58 PM

MEANWHILE – THIS ADMINISTRATION MURDERED FOUR INNOCENT AMERICANS IN BENGHAZI!!

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

“They were in the wrong place at the wrong time…”

- Former Secretary of State..

Electrongod on June 10, 2013 at 11:08 PM

Bump in the road.

socalcon on June 10, 2013 at 11:58 PM

MEANWHILE – THIS ADMINISTRATION MURDERED FOUR INNOCENT AMERICANS IN BENGHAZI!!

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

“They were in the wrong place at the wrong time…”

– Former Secretary of State..

Electrongod on June 10, 2013 at 11:08 PM

Bump in the road.

socalcon on June 10, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Peregruzka!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 11, 2013 at 12:00 AM

Heh! In the “old days”…….I might have done just that…….

williamg on June 10, 2013 at 11:52 PM

So, what do you instead in these “new” days?

Sleeping in the Aviary – “Calm Me Down”

Anti-Control on June 11, 2013 at 12:01 AM

MO will announce she’s pregnant this week and it will wipe everything else off the front page.

RickB on June 11, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Self Esteem.

Axe on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Oh my GOD, Axe!! Soooooo classic and soooo relevant and sooooo allegorical to our current situation!

JUST what I needed to hear – all that well-crafted adolescent anger – Thanks, Axe!

williamg on June 11, 2013 at 12:01 AM

MO will announce she’s pregnant this week and it will wipe everything else off the front page.

RickB on June 11, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Who be the baby daddy ?
:O

burrata on June 11, 2013 at 12:03 AM

2) I disagree that saying “treason” is overboard – how is having disdain for the idea of 3 coequal branches of our government, something many defenders of the NSA have shown they are guilty of, not treasonous?

Anti-Control on June 10, 2013 at 11:51 PM

I guess I don’t follow how you arrive at

having disdain for the idea of 3 coequal branches of our government, something many defenders of the NSA have shown they are guilty of,

I’m saying that there might very well be treason here, but I just think the jury is still out at this point. Or maybe I just haven’t read everything there is on this yet.

Jackalope on June 11, 2013 at 12:03 AM

Is it better to take a large number of tactical nuclear weapons and wipe the known terrorist strongholds from the face of the Earth? (You know, like Russia or China would do if faced with a problem of the same scale.)

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Axe, Ruler of the Southern Pathway of the Demilitarized Zone, would pronounce:

You have no right to do either. Without recognition of fundamental rights that cannot be abridged, you cannot live as a free people. The recognition of those rights is the only thing that stabilizes any government you would create for yourselves, even a representative republic.

To do the one is to become a tyrant. To do the other is to become a tyrant. Your answer to tyranny cannot be to become tyrants yourselves. If you do this, you’ve lost any moral justification for your existence when measured against the justifications of your enemies.

Allow yourself to die before becoming the thing you hate.

*calls for RWM to dance and demands the courtiers take their places*

Axe on June 11, 2013 at 12:04 AM

So, what do you instead in these “new” days?

Anti-Control on June 11, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Heh!….Well – Pray……Listen to “Self Esteem” by the Offspring…..both help

williamg on June 11, 2013 at 12:04 AM

They nuked Chechnya right off the map.

RickB on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

And after troll turd lays around for 6 minutes. It too is nuked!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

socalcon on June 11, 2013 at 12:05 AM

They hate war, they say the war on terror is over, then they use the war powers for themselves.

Schadenfreude on June 11, 2013 at 12:06 AM

I just can’t really understand conservatives who are defending the NSA and the surveillance state. Are these people really security at ANY cost? Are they so afraid of the world that they are willing to sacrifice any and all freedoms they have to increase their safety even in the most minor of ways? If so, then thats just pathetic. I thought Americans were supposed to cherish their freedoms and have the courage to endure the increased risks that sometimes accompany freedom. Instead, I see people claiming to be conservatives essentially begging for an authoritarian government to monitor its citizens activities more than any totalitarian regime in history has, all to slightly decrease the already RIDICULOUSLY minor risk of terrorism (1/20,000,000 chance to die from terrorism, 3 times less than lightning.)

thphilli on June 11, 2013 at 12:07 AM

Really? More censoring what media can be consumed by the military?

Jackalope on June 10, 2013 at 11:57 PM

Speaking of which, I wonder if my last post will ever appear?

Is it better to take a large number of tactical nuclear weapons and wipe the known terrorist strongholds from the face of the Earth? (You know, like Russia or China would do if faced with a problem of the same scale.)

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

They nuked Chechnya right off the map.

RickB on June 10, 2013 at 11:54 PM

We only do that with Fascist/Nazi types…they had to be crushed ruthlessly and mercilessly…with Commies we do parallels and limited conflict.

“Live and let live” when it comes to Commies Washington always has maintained.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 11, 2013 at 12:08 AM

Is it better to take a large number of tactical nuclear weapons and wipe the known terrorist strongholds from the face of the Earth? (You know, like Russia or China would do if faced with a problem of the same scale.)

PolAgnostic on June 10, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Chicago, San Fran and Detroit would be sorely missed.

Well ok maybe not missed so much as noticed they are gone.

Bishop on June 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM

I see people claiming to be conservatives essentially begging for an authoritarian government to monitor its citizens activities more than any totalitarian regime in history has…

thphilli on June 11, 2013 at 12:07 AM

Really, I missed that. Link, por favor ?

socalcon on June 11, 2013 at 12:12 AM

So I’m thinking about this spying rabbit hole,
could Obama have a secret US Military plane,or
civilian refrubished type plane,flying around
Red States,gathering info,like a EP-3E,with
a clever spy program called EP-3E!!

Jus say’n!!

canopfor on June 11, 2013 at 12:12 AM

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