Why was the NSA/PRISM snooping kept secret?

posted at 2:01 pm on June 7, 2013 by Allahpundit

Excellent question from Ramesh Ponnuru. Does the answer have to do with simple natsec force of habit? I.e. when you’ve got an intelligence tool as ambitious and sophisticated as PRISM, you take no chances with it. Need-to-know-basis only. Virtually everything else in Washington is kept unnecessarily secret these days. Why wouldn’t a program at the top of the intel food chain be kept secret too?

Or, as Ramesh suggests, does the answer have to do with politics? When you’re snooping on the entire electorate, maybe you think twice about letting the electorate know that.

Only one of those answers is a legitimate reason for secrecy.

If so much information is being gathered about almost everyone to figure out patterns, then it’s not as though you’d be tipping off a particular target that we were on to him. Would publicizing the order that this information be collected have given away technical secrets to our enemies (or rather, at this point, has publicizing it done so)? I don’t see how. I can see why the government might want to keep this data-mining program secret to avoid a political backlash, but that is of course not a good reason for concealing it. Is there a better one?

In other words, without revealing which particular tech behemoths are participating in PRISM (and I use the term “participating” loosely), what national-security harm could have come from announcing that, yes, most Internet communications are also being data-mined and occasionally intercepted for intelligence purposes? One obvious possibility is that if the bad guys know that the entire Internet’s being bugged, they’ll get offline altogether. That’s good news in the sense that it’ll make communicating/planning harder, but it’s bad news in that it makes them harder to find. The guy responsible for 9/11 did pretty well staying hidden for 10 years by communicating via courier only. If the CIA has a net over the entire ‘Net, then naturally they want jihadis to use it. Also, it seems only logical to me that if you’re gathering this much data, you’re not just using it to spot terrorists. The feds are surely using it for foreign espionage purposes too. Imagine what kind of foreign-policy puzzle pieces they’re finding by harvesting e-mails, even from private accounts, that foreign diplomats are using to communicate with people back home. Now that PRISM’s out of the bag, countermeasures will be developed.

But yeah, needless to say, the main rationale is probably political.

Speaking of good questions, here’s another one from Geraldo Rivera(!): Why are these intelligence bombshells suddenly bursting all over the place?

“Isn’t it interesting that we get these massive leaks within the last 24 hours, we’ve gotten leaks on the existence of two super-secret programs … how did we discover them? We discovered them by leaks,” Rivera told the hosts Friday morning on “Fox & Friends.”…

“So this is a stick in the eye to the Obama administration by someone within the administration, says, ‘Look, you’ve been so ham-handed with The Associated Press … the James Rosen snooping, and just to show you how impotent you are, here are two more even more massive leaks of programs that you’re doing with surveillance,’” Rivera said.

Probably true. WaPo said in its bombshell story on PRISM yesterday that its source is someone who works in intelligence who’s upset at the program’s intrusiveness. Is that also true of whoever leaked the NSA/Verizon order to Glenn Greenwald, or is that person upset for different reasons? I saw theories kicked around yesterday on Twitter ranging from “intel community’s revenge on Obama for Benghazi scapegoating” to “hackers swiped it and leaked it.” The NSA/PRISM stuff isn’t the only interesting leak lately either: Just yesterday, NBC got hold of a classified report showing that roughly a quarter of drone attacks in Pakistan over a 14-month period were controversial “signature strikes.” One interesting coincidence in all this is that, after three years of waiting, Bradley Manning’s court-martial finally began this week. Maybe a person or persons sympathetic to him inside U.S. intel wanted to retaliate, or make a statement about transparency, by leaking stuff far more sensitive than what Manning’s accused of leaking. If so, does that mean other shoes are still to drop?

Update: One more good question via Gabe Malor: If the FBI, via the NSA, already knows who’s talking to whom, why did the DOJ need to subpoena the AP’s phone records and get a search warrant for James Rosen’s e-mails? The only possible answer, I think, is admissibility in court. They can’t offer PRISM data as evidence (yet), so they have to go through traditional legal channels.


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You troll here all the time telling us to leave Obama alone

Illiterate or delusional, you decide. Tell you to leave Obama alone? Ha! I mostly poke fun at hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty. And or, offer a leftist take on an issue thread.

telling us what a bunch of paranoid idiots we all are.

You are remarkably paranoid, and most often about the entirely wrong things. That doesn’t change because our critique of executive power happens to finally dovetail.

This is what you wanted for the country

*eyeroll* That’s just dumb.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Amateur. I’m an expert in leftist critique of Obama and have been following (and contributing) to that literature since the 2008 primary. We can go back to Adolph Reed’s critique of Obamaism back in July of 2008:

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/where-obamaism-seems-be-going

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Like I said earlier why are you not trolling over at Daily Kos or HuffPo giving your criticism of Obama? I mean we don’t have the power right now, but the Democrats and Obama do to stop all this from happening. Basically you are trolling the wrong people.

William Eaton on June 7, 2013 at 3:10 PM

What was the name of an earlier intelligence trawling program that had to be shut down?

onlineanalyst on June 7, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Amateur. I’m an expert in leftist critique of Obama and have been following (and contributing) to that literature since the 2008 primary. We can go back to Adolph Reed’s critique of Obamaism back in July of 2008:

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/where-obamaism-seems-be-going

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Luv, I’ve been watching you suck Obama’s ass for years. Once again, you need a refresher course, Obama-Firster.

At least Greenwald has principles. He didn’t vote for Obama in 2012.

Resist We Much on June 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM

nuttery is based upon an egotistic masculinist fantasy
libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Bugger.. er, ah hell, just bugger off.

Jabberwock on June 7, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Like I said earlier why are you not trolling over at Daily Kos or HuffPo giving your criticism of Obama?

Because I’m part of left of center communities and critique Obama publicly and openly in person, online and in professional forums all the time using my actual identity and credentials. But here I get insight into what conservatives think (and get to use that data in my conversations with other progressives all the time). I don’t participate in HuffPo forums because the site is too busy and poorly organized. And DailyKos is just NUTS. I can’t abide extremely loyal partisan Democrats feeling on themselves, its just way way too much. I especially hate seeing the ones twisted by craziness. Like if I had to encounter the liberal versions of tom daschle, CW, northdallasthirty or williamcg I would be bereft.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Luv, I’ve been watching you suck Obama’s ass for years.

Wow, I never thought you were intellectually dishonest before. That’s disappointing.

Once again, you need a refresher course, Obama-Firster.

At least Greenwald has principles. He didn’t vote for Obama in 2012.

Resist We Much on June 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM

I have gotten into in-depth debates with other leftists about the efficacy of voting Obama in 2012, they are debates which have no place here since they are based on a set of assumed and shared values and principles. If you want to rehearse those debates we can, but it would be pointless as you’re not a leftist.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:19 PM

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM

You are here because you crave the negative attention you get by disrupting Conservative Conversation.

Pitiful.

kingsjester on June 7, 2013 at 3:21 PM

I have gotten into in-depth debates with other leftists about the efficacy of voting Obama in 2012, they are debates which have no place here since they are based on a set of assumed and shared values and principles. If you want to rehearse those debates we can, but it would be pointless as you’re not a leftist.

lipfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Do you categorically deny having an Obama shrine in your home?

slickwillie2001 on June 7, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Do you categorically deny having an Obama shrine in your home?

slickwillie2001 on June 7, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Ha! You’re cute, you can stick around.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Because I’m part of left of center communities and critique Obama publicly and openly in person, online and in professional forums all the time using my actual identity and credentials. But here I get insight into what conservatives think (and get to use that data in my conversations with other progressives all the time). I don’t participate in HuffPo forums because the site is too busy and poorly organized. And DailyKos is just NUTS. I can’t abide extremely loyal partisan Democrats feeling on themselves, its just way way too much. I especially hate seeing the ones twisted by craziness. Like if I had to encounter the liberal versions of tom daschle, CW, northdallasthirty or williamcg I would be bereft.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Ok…So lets say in 2016 it is a battle between Rand Paul (or heck even Ted Cruz) vs. Hillary Clinton. Who would be more likely to end the patriot act? Who would be more likely to restore civil liberties in this country? Who is more likely to invade other countries for questionable goals? Who would vote for?

I know you don’t agree with their positions on abortion, gay marriage, etc. but life and freedom is more than just those issues.

William Eaton on June 7, 2013 at 3:25 PM

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM

You are here because you crave the negative attention you get by disrupting Conservative Conversation.

Pitiful.

kingsjester on June 7, 2013 at 3:21 PM

come on now, you don’t have to agree with him but it’s his right to comment wherever he wants and whenever without having his motives questioned, he’s usually very open about his views. whatever happened to the freedom of speech championed by Hot Gasers.

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Do you categorically deny having an Obama shrine in your home?

slickwillie2001 on June 7, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Ha! You’re cute, you can stick around.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Nice dodge perfesser.

slickwillie2001 on June 7, 2013 at 3:27 PM

It’s Troll-A-Rama Time, Marxist version.

farsighted on June 7, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Ok…So lets say in 2016 it is a battle between Rand Paul (or heck even Ted Cruz) vs. Hillary Clinton. Who would be more likely to end the patriot act? Who would be more likely to restore civil liberties in this country? Who is more likely to invade other countries for questionable goals? Who would vote for?

I know you don’t agree with their positions on abortion, gay marriage, etc. but life and freedom is more than just those issues.

William Eaton on June 7, 2013 at 3:25 PM

An election for my nightmares. Lets take each issue at a time.

Who would be more likely to end the patriot act?

More likely? I suppose Rand Paul. But I suspect that if Paul won he would pull an Obama on these issues. Apparently whatever is in that manila folder is powerful stuff.

Who is more likely to invade other countries for questionable goals?

Clinton definitely.

Who would be more likely to restore civil liberties in this country?

I am sure we could never agree on the terms of this question. So its moot.

Who would vote for?

It is likely I would return to voting Green.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Freedom of Speech is one thing. Intentionally hijacking threads in another. The perfesser has a history of doing just that.

kingsjester on June 7, 2013 at 3:33 PM

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:27 PM

KJ’s one of those Huckabee/Jerry Falwell conservatives, you know how they feel about speech.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:33 PM

I have gotten into in-depth debates with other leftists about the efficacy of voting Obama in 2012, they are debates which have no place here since they are based on a set of assumed and shared values and principles. If you want to rehearse those debates we can, but it would be pointless as you’re not a leftist.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Because criticism from the Right is Racism.
Right ?

Jabberwock on June 7, 2013 at 3:34 PM

But here I get insight into what conservatives think (and get to use that data in my conversations with other progressives all the time).

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Comments on HA are “data”?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

farsighted on June 7, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Nice dodge perfesser.

slickwillie2001 on June 7, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Wait, you didn’t mean that question sarcastically………..whoa. Well then to answer your question with the seriousness which you asked it, no I do not, nor ever had an Obama shrine in my house. I will admit to putting an Obama sign in the window of my Chicago apartment around the time of the election. What can I say, it *was* an emotional moment. The sign lasted until Timmy Geithner was listed as a cabinet member. So about 36 hours of hope and change.

I will admit. There are lots of times when I have tasted the sweet schadenfreude of conservative rage at Obama, especially when expressed in these fatalistic “THE NATION IS DOOMED!” ways. And, if *you* were honest, you would admit that some of the “THE NATION IS DOOMED!” crap was in reaction to Obama’s stated (never enacted) softening of anti-terrorism. You complained when you thought Obama was taking the heat off anti-terrorism and not defending us like Bush did. Which makes the current complaints about PRISM from the right really lame.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Freedom of Speech is one thing. Intentionally hijacking threads in another. The perfesser has a history of doing just that.

kingsjester on June 7, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Ok, I probably find myself agreeing with libfree…like, um, never, but on this thread he only answered the questions asked of him and he clarified his views. And to my mind at least, he sounds pretty consistent in what he is saying. He is not a troll. Bit obnoxious, maybe, but surely that’s not a crime :)

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Who would be more likely to end the patriot act?

More likely? I suppose Rand Paul. But I suspect that if Paul won he would pull an Obama on these issues. Apparently whatever is in that manila folder is powerful stuff.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM

You know, I agree with you on this. Kind of scary what a President learns upon taking office.
A whole lot of effort, across at least two different administrations when into building it up. In fact, Carter, and Congress, kicked the whole shebang off in 1978.

It’s a mine field to navigate.

Jabberwock on June 7, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Who would be more likely to end the patriot act?

More likely? I suppose Rand Paul. But I suspect that if Paul won he would pull an Obama on these issues. Apparently whatever is in that manila folder is powerful stuff.

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Yep, and pretty much anybody else elected (on the con side) would do the same. Mon dieu, I am agreeing with you, this is not happening to me :).. Guess it’s time for me to leave, shes this disgrace off :)

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:50 PM

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Listen you pompous jackwagon, it’s not Conservative Christians who are spying on this country. It’s that phony messiah you and all of your LIBERALS friends put in power.

Every time I think about you molding young minds I have to swallow hard and try not to hurl.

If the lack of morality and ethics you demonstrate in your posts are an exasmple of youe everyday life, I grieve for those young minds full of mush you get to propagandize to.

I stand by what I posted it earlier, since it appears to have struck a nerve. You responded with flak, so I was right over the target.

At dKos or HuffPo, you would be just another poster in love with the Collective. Here, you can strut around like a peacock with its feathers up.

“Hey, look at me. You HAVE to accept me, my political beliefs, and my lifestyle, while I trash you and your opinions all to Hell.”

Actually,professor, we don’t.

My problem with you is not your “lifestyle”, your race, or even your political ideology. It is the fact that you are a TROLL.

kingsjester on June 7, 2013 at 3:51 PM

Shed

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:51 PM

He is not a troll.

I’m pretty sure that is a very minority view, considering posting history. Some trolls do not troll all of the time.

This one is a retread that was banned once before. Most places re-ban retreads on sight.

And I’ve never seen a troll that didn’t have some defenders and apologists. One of the things trolls love to do is drive wedges, create discord, and then sit back and enjoy the show.

Bit obnoxious, maybe

Not maybe. And it is deliberate and intentional.

but surely that’s not a crime :)

jimver on June 7, 2013 at 3:42 PM

And neither is being a troll on HA.

HA is very troll tolerant. The non-troll membership either learns to live with it or walks away.

On the plus side, while HA lets trolls troll and post almost anything they want — within some mysterious limits, it also permits others to post whatever they want about the trolls.

farsighted on June 7, 2013 at 3:55 PM

farsighted on June 7, 2013 at 3:55 PM

Capitalism in front of yer very eyes!

Schadenfreude on June 7, 2013 at 4:00 PM

Martin Bashir is actually fixing his mouth to support Obama on the PRISM program…..

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Martin Bashir is actually fixing his mouth to support Obama on the PRISM program…..

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Maddow punch him ?

Jabberwock on June 7, 2013 at 4:07 PM

The sad thing about this whole affair is most Americans will at some point recognize that their lives have not changed; and thus, they will accept this type of nonsense. I’m afraid the USS America is already sunk.

DDay on June 7, 2013 at 4:48 PM

Martin Bashir is actually fixing his mouth to support Obama on the PRISM program…..

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 4:02 PM

So, PRISM is today’s ‘N-word’?

Does he realise that his constant ridiculous exploitation of racism where none exists is rendering the charge meaningless?

Sheesh, even TNR and The Atlanic’s Conor Friedersdorf have taken him apart on his latest asininity.

Resist We Much on June 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Resist We Much on June 7, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Hop on over to the CM thread.
He must be upset that Bashir topped him and is trying to make up lost ground.

Jabberwock on June 7, 2013 at 5:06 PM

WaPo said in its bombshell story on PRISM yesterday that its source is someone who works in intelligence who’s upset at the program’s intrusiveness.

It’s been an intrusive program for 4+ years; why did the source just now get upset?

And there seems to be a blanket assumption that the WaPo and NYT didn’t know anything about this program until now, just because they haven’t published anything until now.

They were pretty quick to go to press with any secret spying program under Bush, even ones that were specifically targeted at foreign suspects engaging in a known terrorist MO. Which was — surprise! — the original intent of the Patriot Act, according to its author.

The administration is setting up another straw-man either-or “choice” between “those who say we must surveille everything from everybody all the time, and those who are against any surveillance of anything from anyone at anytime”.

How about going back to the middle-of-the-road common-sense standard, and issue warrants to spy on people who have actually given cause to suspect they intend to kill Americans?

AesopFan on June 7, 2013 at 5:12 PM

PS, be careful — the NSA is almost certainly mining for words like “bombshell”.

(and “mining” too, come to think of it)

AesopFan on June 7, 2013 at 5:13 PM

I think it was secret because it revealed that 99% of the terrorism was within radical Ismalist groups, and for the past 10 years liberals have told us there is no such thing as radical Islamist terrorism.

The circle cannot be squared. So lie.

PattyJ on June 7, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Do you categorically deny having an Obama shrine in your home?

slickwillie2001 on June 7, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Ha! You’re cute, you can stick around.

No, I don’t!

libfreeordie on June 7, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Edited.

Del Dolemonte on June 7, 2013 at 5:26 PM

Two things. 1- the NSA sweep of cell records is inefficient and frankly “lazy cop” policing. If the threat starts overseas, then would it not be better to sweep Yemen cell records for calls to here? Worse, they justify the action as a way to fight the war on terror, yet they are so bad at it that when they were given the phone number, name, address and Internet activity of a suspected terrorist by the Russians they couldn’t put a case together! So what is the REAL reason for the sweeps?

2- the “metadata” is plenty to identify the owner. Also, this is about not making a current case but to make a historical case. You commit a crime in two years, they can go back to now and see who you were talking with and more importantly where you were and where they were when you were talking.

Is it legal? Of course, but so was having black folks sit in the back of the bus at one time. “Legal” is a human term, not a Constitutional or God given rights term. It violates my second principle I had when I was a detective- Just because you can does not mean you should.

The NSA can sweep your data but is doing it a good thing? I argue yes it is “legal” because I gave up the right to privacy by sharing it with a company. However, I argue that the privacy extends to that company because I gave them AND ONLY THEM the information. Sort of like doctor patient information.

If I wanted everybody to know I would have posted it online or sent out fliers.

archer52 on June 7, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Three Stooges.

Moe (as Hamlet) “Me thinks there is something rotten in Denmark!”
Larry (smelling over-ripe cheese) “Oh, no. It’s a lot closer than that!”

KCsecurity1976 on June 7, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Maybe they are blaming the Chinese for cyber spying when it’s really our own government. And the government could be using the Chinese to hide what they themselves are doing.

COgirl on June 8, 2013 at 10:24 AM

Maybe they are blaming the Chinese for cyber spying when it’s really our own government. And the government could be using the Chinese to hide what they themselves are doing.

COgirl on June 8, 2013 at 10:24 AM

Maybe, but I doubt it. The biggest national pasttime of Communist tyrannies after oppressing the populace is stealing from capitalist nations because they can’t invent their own stuff due to lack of incentives, making inferior copies, and using it against us if applicable.

MelonCollie on June 8, 2013 at 10:35 AM

this is why I didn’t vote Dem before 2008 and while I’ll probably be returning to the greens from here on out.
 
libfreeordie on January 23, 2009 at 10:41 AM

rogerb on June 8, 2013 at 1:08 PM

What was the name of an earlier intelligence trawling program that had to be shut down?

onlineanalyst on June 7, 2013 at 3:10 PM

You are probably thinking about Echelon, the secret telecommunications vacuum cleaner under Bush.

I don’t think it was shut down. It was theoretically designed to intercept overseas communications, and I believe it is still it is still in operation. I came across a recent article on another subject but it had an unclassified photograph of a satellite ground station located in West Virginia and referred to it as part of the Echelon program.

Either they changed the name to Prism and expanded it to sucking up both domestic and international telecommunications; or they are two complementary programs that when the data is combined doesn’t make any difference whether it is two programs or one.

But more to the point of this thread, I’ve hear a lot of defense about how all of this is just meta data and Prism is only looking for key words.

But I haven’t hear anyone postulate the FBI using this data to say type in the key words James Rosen, or Associated Press, or perhaps enter the phone number of a reporter and have the system spit out all of the phone numbers he has called over the past seven years and then associate them with names (easily done on the Internet by a entry-level HTML programmer with a massive hangover in about an hour).

And here’s a fact. Law enforcement often collaborates with military intelligence for information. The problem is that they can’t take that information into court. But they do use it to develop leads that they can take into court–it’s just that the part where it was originally based on information obtained by spying is not mentioned.

I’m just saying that there are all sorts of ways the meta data and Prism data can be abused and since it’s all done in secret, you will never find out unless a whistle-blower steps forward and based on the less than stellar protection that the Fast and Furious whistle-blowers have gotten, that isn’t very likely.

I think the way the system is set up today, it’s overreach. But if there were more safeguards and cross checks on how the data was used and severe penalties (I’m not talking retiring with full pensions) for violations; then I think both could be viable programs.

But for now, there are not enough safeguards or cross checks. Since about 2000, FISA has received more than 30,000 requests for secret information or spying. So far it has only denied about 11 of those requests. I don’t call that a safeguard and who cross checks the FISA to ensure that there are no abuses–the fox that happens to be guarding the hen house?

BMF on June 8, 2013 at 2:48 PM

I did a couple of posts about this after picking the brain of my former partner. He is MENSA bright and experienced in the field. Here is what I posted on another site and what I posted on mine. He brought an out of the box thought- That is sweep is a first amendment suppression issue.


My friend spent some time in intel. I was partnered up with him when we started our intel unit in our department. He is MENSA bright and thinks outside the box. His thoughts are important. He explained his concerns about the sweep saying it is just too broad to be effective. The better way is to sweep outside in, like tracking calls FROM Yemen to the US rather than seek all records of all citizens from the US and go the other way which is inefficient. He considers this “lazy cop” policing.

Further he figured out what the NSA is doing by creating lock boxes that the companies dump their FISA warrant data into. His concerns are that we are allowing other nations to piggyback on our secure servers with their version of FISA warrants, and we might be “sniffing” their data.

But his out of the box thoughts are this: the NSA metadata sweep is a violation of the right to assemble for religious reasons. DHS thinks Christians are dangerous. They can track your phone to where you go on Sunday morning and then see every phone around you- your fellow worshipers. Then they can spider web out from there. If you are a Jew, think about that for a second. As Beck pointed out, if Hitler had that capability no Jew would have survived.

You have potential damping on the right to assemble and the right to worship and in return for what? Tracking 300 million to catch 300 is not worth it. Unless you are a government lawyer or maybe want to intimidate.

http://truthandcommonsense.com/2013/06/08/the-nsa-prism-and-the-right-to-assemble-or-worship-without-government-intrusion/

archer52 on June 8, 2013 at 8:14 PM

And so another day comes.

Another day with more major scandals.

And all the troll can say is that he’s going green.

Watermelon…..

itsspideyman on June 8, 2013 at 11:20 PM

This board needs a place we can comment on things Rush said which we have a comment on, that he’ll never get to.

He [Rush] commented O being the first Black Prez not being able to be removed from office. If he [O] walked in to a room, pulled a gun, and shot everyone in the room, killing them all, would that not be reason to remove him from office? Then why would anything else be any different if on the same scale?

johnnyU on June 10, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Worse, they justify the action as a way to fight the war on terror, yet they are so bad at it that when they were given the phone number, name, address and Internet activity of a suspected terrorist by the Russians they couldn’t put a case together! So what is the REAL reason for the sweeps?

archer52 on June 7, 2013 at 6:23 PM

This!!!

The real elephant in the room.

Especially amongst those who are screaming “treason” out of one side of their mouth, while saying “this was all legal and public” out of the other side of their mouth.

I’m getting whiplash from the inconsistency and the illogic.

The point is the program is an effing and recently demonstrable very public failure.

The facts on the ground are that this administration uses the national security apparatus, and apparently substantive portions of the federal bureaucracy, as a domestic political fricking weapon.

And that for that purpose, PRISM is entirely too effective as a purely political tool to not be ENTIRELY concerned about its actual effectiveness as opposed to what it may actually being used for.

I don’t care a rats ass about Snowden’s motivations.

I do care about the pattern of blatant and chronic misuse of power by this administration.

davisbr on June 11, 2013 at 12:09 PM

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