Kaitlyn Hunt and the Romeo and Juliet problem

posted at 11:31 am on May 25, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

In case you somehow missed it, Kaitlyn Hunt is a Florida high school student who finds herself in a sizable amount of hot water this month, as well as being at the center of a controversial national story. The senior class cheerleader was charged with felony level sex crimes after police investigated a report that she was involved in a sexual relationship with a 14 year old freshman. (Hunt is 18 years old.) The story becomes even more convoluted – and irresistible bait for the media – because the freshman is also female. The younger girl’s parents reportedly objected to what was going on between Hunt and their daughter, asked for the contact to end, and then called the police when Kaitlyn allegedly continued the relationship.

If convicted for “lewd and lascivious assault” and the other charges, Hunt could face more than a decade in jail and a lifetime on the sex offender registry. This has, predictably, resulted in a national furor on both sides of the case, with detractors claiming that the younger girl’s parents are homophobes who objected to their daughter having a girlfriend, (a charge they have since denied) and supporters declaring that the age gap defines Hunt as a sex offender and the law is protecting the younger girl. In an apparent attempt to calm the waters, prosecutors offered a plea deal where Hunt would plead guilty to somewhat lesser felony charges, do two years of house arrest followed by supervised parole, and not have the same level of permanent sex offender status. Hunt has declined the offer, and some of her supporters seem to feel that she may get off the hook based on Florida’s Romeo and Juliet laws.

This case brings to light some very old and extremely complicated issues. There is little disagreement on the fact that we need laws in place to protect children from becoming the prey of predatory pedophiles and monsters. But when we structure these laws, the door swings open to situations where minors who may be involved in inadvisable, but still consensual, high school relationships get swept up in laws intended for predatory adults. (Which side of this fence Kaitlyn falls on is probably the biggest debate here.) Thus the actions by a number of states which provide some form of relief for underage, sexually active teens under the so called Romeo and Juliet laws mentioned above. But Florida’s law in particular may not offer the escape hatch which some of Hunt’s supporters think it will. The state provides a good summary of the law which will probably come as a surprise to some observers.

Section 943.04354, F.S., provides a process allowing a motion or petition for removal of the requirement to register as a sexual offender or sexual predator for qualifying “Romeo and Juliet” offenders who meet specific criteria outlined in the statute. Most notably , the victim must be at least 14 years-old, the offender no more than 4 years older than the victim at the time of the offense, and the victim must have consented to the sexual conduct. Qualifying offenses for consideration of registration relief by the court fall under the following statutes:
s. 794.011, F.S. (sexual battery); s.800.04. F.S. (lewd or lascivious offenses committed upon or in the presence of persons less than 16 years of age); s. 827.071, F.S. (sexual performance by a child); or s. 847.0135(5), F.S. (certain computer transmissions prohibited).

Section 943.04354, F.S., only addresses an offender’s registry requirement and does not make any of the above qualifying offenses legal. The sexual conduct associated with these offenses is still a crime when the victim is 15 years of age or younger, even if both of the participants are minors and the act was consensual.

If you read that section carefully, you’ll note that the law provides no relief in the form of an instant “not guilty” finding. The laws still stand as described. This only involves whether or not the perpetrator will wind up on the sex offender registry. And even then, it only allows them to petition to be taken off the list. It’s not automatic.

All of these laws in the states where they have been passed seem to lead to a lot of confusion and protestations, but it seems like there’s a great need for them. As adults, we gain a different perspective on teenage sex (or love) – particularly when it comes to our own daughters. But I certainly remember a very different point of view when I was in that age group myself. There was no amount of sage advice from adults which was going to dim my emerging interest in girls. This resulted in at least two situations where problems arose, one when I attempted to date a Senior girl when I was a freshman and another when I did date a sophomore when I was a senior. The former resulted in my being shoved into a wall by the girl’s actual boyfriend (also a senior) and the later saw my father and the girl’s father nearly come to blows in our driveway. But I can assure you, in neither case was I only interested in meeting the girls for milk and cookies in their parents’ yard.

But is there really no difference between an adult cruising the playground in a windowless van looking for victims and two classmates who agree to date? And how do we balance that with the fact that 14 year olds really can’t give meaningful consent under the law for things which they are not mentally or emotionally developed enough to deal with? Florida’s laws actually seem to blunder in the opposite direction when they provide relief for slightly older children.

s. 794.05, F.S., provides an age-gap provision that allows a 16 or 17 year-old to legally consent to sexual conduct with a person 16-23 years of age. The fact that an offender may not have known the age of the victim or the victim portrayed themselves to be older, cannot be used as a defense to prosecution under s. 800.04, F.S., or ch. 794, F.S. However, as provided in s. 921.0026, F.S., these facts can be offered at sentencing as mitigation for the court’s consideration.

So we wind up with a situation where a senior who has turned 18 and has a boyfriend or girlfriend who is a freshman (and we can really leave gender and homosexuality out of it for this part of the discussion) can wind up in jail for a decade and on the sex offender registry for life, but a 23 year old can go cruising the parking lots and get a 16 year old “girlfriend” to go back to their hotel if they “consent.” It’s a pretty crazy system, and there doesn’t seem to be any easy fix to it.

UPDATE: (Jazz) Doug Mataconis weighs in with the lawyer’s perspective and can’t make much more sense of it than I can.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3 13

Hunt will get off (no pun intended) because it’s a same-sex relationship. There would be no news about this if Hunt was a guy playing with a fourteen year old.

Double standard out there?

You bet there is.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Kaitlyn’s problem is the (now 15 year old’s) parents DO object and there’s nothing running to Ellen and Joy Behar will do about that. Find a new girlfriend. They’re still her parents and they don’t have to explain themselves to you. Or Joy. Or Ellen.

Marcus on May 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Tough case.

rbj on May 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Old CW: Predatory perverts need prison time.

New CW: Predatory perverts need prison time…unless they’re members of protected groups.

itsnotaboutme on May 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Exactly.
Its amazing how dumbed down we’ve become.
Special groups have special rights…you know…to make us all equal.

Mimzey on May 25, 2013 at 11:43 AM

This is a toughie. As trite as this is going to sound, you can’t take the high school mind set out of the equation. Especially with girls. A senior and a cheerleader (sports star) is a powerful formula for a high school freshmen who may just be looking for social acceptance. If this had been a male football player, it would be more cut and dried. And how do we know for this freshmen that it couldn’t have just as easily been the senior star football player?

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:44 AM

It’s a pretty crazy system, and there doesn’t seem to be any easy fix to it.

No easy fix to the system, but to fix your life, don’t have sex until you’re married to someone of the opposite sex.

itsnotaboutme on May 25, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Old CW: Predatory perverts need prison time.

New CW: Predatory perverts need prison time…unless they’re members of protected groups.

itsnotaboutme on May 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM

This.

Hunt will get off (no pun intended) because it’s a same-sex relationship. There would be no news about this if Hunt was a guy playing with a fourteen year old.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM

This as well (assuming you mean the guy would go to jail and no one would blink an eye).

VibrioCocci on May 25, 2013 at 11:45 AM

Change the sex around a little and this is an 18 year old male and a 14 year old girl the guy stands no chance and this wouldn’t be even a topic of discussion let alone be in the papers. But in our brave new world some are more equal than others and have more rights and privileges than others. So much for equal protection.

Engrpat on May 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM

NOW we’re going to have this discussion?

If Kaitlyn were “Kenny” this wouldn’t even be a discussion. I’ve known plenty of 18 year old males whose lives were ruined because they were deflowering an innocent girl.

But now that it’s the protected class we have to treat it differently?

BS.

Skywise on May 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM

If it was an 18 year old guy there wouldn’t be any questions. You want “equality” you got it.

vcferlita on May 25, 2013 at 11:48 AM

Too bad they weren’t allowed to join the boy scouts… Wait. Huh?

Fallon on May 25, 2013 at 11:49 AM

The younger girl’s parents reportedly objected to what was going on between Hunt and their daughter, asked for the contact to end, and then called the police when Kaitlyn allegedly continued the relationship.

‘Nuff said. She was warned.

Fallon on May 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM

I think an exercise in common-sense is in order.

Would I want me 14-yr-old dating an 18-yr-old? No, but I also know that would be a dumb fight for me to take on. Secret relationships always end up with bad things happening.

The same-sex relationship angle is meant to give victimhood status to the 18-yr-old in this story. It’s the back-door progressives need to get laws changed their way. Does anyone think progressives care about age-of-consent laws? This is another method to pry children away from their parents.

goflyers on May 25, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Skywise on May 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM

There was a football player in Georgia that spent a few years in jail over this same scenario. Big difference is that his underage partner claimed rape when she was afraid parents would object to interracial romance. Kids are kids for a reason, they don’t tend to give a lot of thought to their actions. In my best old codger voice, in my day you were so scarred of what your parents would do that you usually tried to hold down on the stupid moves.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:55 AM

What if it were an 18 year old male having an affair with a 14 year old male?

ladyingray on May 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

and we can really leave gender and homosexuality out of it for this part of the discussion

Actually, we can’t. We know sexual preference is going to be the main focus in this case.

In the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, one character started a relationship with a girl. Homosexuals praised the show!

Then the writers killed the girlfriend. Those same homosexuals instantly started screaming about bigotry and homophobia.

Something is very seriously wrong with people who identify themselves by who they take to bed. But we can all be sure they’re going to make that the central issue of this case.

When I was younger, there were two very attractive girls who lived on my street. I was 18 when one got a crush on me. She was about 14, and it would have been so easy to carve a notch on my bedpost. But to date a fourteen year old? No way! Even I have standards, and pride.

I could just imagine it from my friends: “What the hell are you doing with a little girl, Liam? Can’t get a real woman?”

Hunt has something wrong with her head. I won’t say she’s a pedophile in the commonly-accepted meaning, but there’s something still way wrong with her. So, let the law work as originally written.

And don’t let the homosexuals decide the case, just for sake of homosexuality. It’s NOT somehow bigotry to apply the law equally no matter a person’s sexual orientation.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

This as well (assuming you mean the guy would go to jail and no one would blink an eye).

VibrioCocci on May 25, 2013 at 11:45 AM

The guy would be going to jail, no question at all in my mind.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Pix pls

In all seriousness though, in the plea bargain offered to “calm the waters,” the prosecutors couldn’t have at least gone with several first-degree misdemeanor charges instead? Any felony conviction for this is going to be unpalatable to much of the public. It will be interesting to see what her defense is going to be.

But, yeah, this is a very tricky area to structure sensible laws around.

WhatSlushfund on May 25, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Didn’t they have sex in a school bathroom? Why should she be given a pass on that?

Blake on May 25, 2013 at 12:00 PM

I’m visiting my daughter nearby where this is occurring in FL and they are making a huge deal out of It. I noticed that the Palm Beach Post is spinning this as a young girl (not woman) and her “classmate.” The attempt to make it sound more innocent than predatory struck me immediately. It certainly would not be treated the same if they were a heterosexual couple. They are not “classmates”, they are “teammates” on the basketball team. Of the two reported incidents one occurred in the bathroom at the high school. If that’s not predatory, I don’t know what is.

I totally believe the parents and I blame the older girl for persisting in perusing the younger girl against her parent’s wishes. One of our daughters was pursued by a predatory young man when she was barely 15 and he was 18. We expressed our disapproval and he persisted. I told his mother in no uncertain terms just what we’d do to him as our underaged daughter was our responsibility until she was of age. He backed off and she later thanked us for protecting her from the likes of him.

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 12:00 PM

From Slate: “Is Kaitlyn Hunt Being Punished Because She Is Gay?”

Oh, yeah. The victimization of Kaitlyn is already in full force.

renalin on May 25, 2013 at 12:02 PM

I read the arrest report and saw the interview by the parents of the minor child.

1. The adult cheerleader admitted to repeated and explicit penetrative sexual contact with the 14 year old.

2. The adult cheerleader colluded in the 14 year old running away and this act resulted in more sex at adult cheerleaders parents home.

3. The adult cheerleader was warned twice by the parents of the 14 year old to stay way from their minor daughter.

4. The parents of the minor child say they went to Law Enforcement after the adult cheerleader picked up their child in a car for an un-authorized over night stay at her parents home…where they had sex.

5. If the adult cheerleader was male…he’d be in the slammer as a predator.

6. As usual…The Gay Lobby want a different set of rules.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM

As a parent of three, I would be against my fourteen year old having sex with anyone. Have you met any fourteen year olds? Please, Kids, I am begging you, don’t try to grow up so fast. You get to be an adult for a looooooonnnng time.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM

If it was an 18 year old guy there wouldn’t be any questions. You want “equality” you got it.

vcferlita on May 25, 2013 at 11:48 AM

Unintended consequences can be a biitch.

socalcon on May 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 12:00 PM

I’m starting to get the feeling that some little blonde 18 year old wants to be famous.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Thousands, perhaps millions of 18 year old young men in Florida have refrained from ‘partaking’ in 14 yo freshmen, over the years.

What’s hunts problem? She’s a predator.

socalcon on May 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Hmm. And Hunt is such an appropo surname for a predator.

socalcon on May 25, 2013 at 12:11 PM

But is there really no difference between an adult cruising the playground in a windowless van looking for victims and two classmates who agree to date?

You’re obscuring the issue a little, Jazz. This situation isn’t “two classmates who agree to date”, it’s an “adult” having SEX with an underage minor.

KS Rex on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

From Slate: “Is Kaitlyn Hunt Being Punished Because She Is Gay?”

Oh, yeah. The victimization of Kaitlyn is already in full force.

renalin on May 25, 2013 at 12:02 PM

The adult cheerleader used a vibrator on the 14 year old and instructed the 14 year old to reciprocate…she admitted it in 2 phone calls as well as to investigators.

She has turned down a plea deal to stage a political martyrdom…which The Gay Lobby hopes to use to lower the age of consent.

The adult cheerleader is a predator.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

The younger girl’s parents reportedly objected to what was going on between Hunt and their daughter, asked for the contact to end, and then called the police when Kaitlyn allegedly continued the relationship.

‘Nuff said. She was warned.

Fallon on May 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM

+1

She was given one “Get of Jail Free” card and decided to rip it to shreds. No tears from me if she gets the book thrown at her.

Bitter Clinger on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

I’m starting to get the feeling that some little blonde 18 year old wants to be famous.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM

You got it. There was a quarter page story in the paper accompanied by a photo of Little Miss Romeo and her Daddy grinning ear to ear.

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

I’m starting to get the feeling that some little blonde 18 year old wants to be famous.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM

So do her parents.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:13 PM

which The Gay Lobby hopes to use to lower the age of consent.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

That’s going to be the ‘solution’ to situations like this, coming from liberals.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

One thing to point out, the relationship didn’t begin when Hunt was 18, she was 17 for the majority of it, and on her 18th birthday the parents of the younger girl had her arrested. At no point following her turning 18 did she have any contact with the younger girl.

In other words, when they had the relationship, they both were legally minors and thus, under the law, no legal consequences. The parents *deliberately* gamed the system in this case, waiting until Hunt turned 18 to officially complain *on her birthday*. In my view, this was pure vindictiveness rather than anything else, and shows malice on the part of the parents.

Let me put it another way, 17 year old star football player has 14 year old cheerleader girlfriend. Football player turns 18, has no contact with his girlfriend following this point, and is arrested for the same charges. Think about it.

Edunai on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Look, stop sugarcoating it: There is a sizeable difference in sexual maturity between a 14-year-old and a 16-year-old. That is why the age of consent is 16 and not 14. I do not care how horny 14-year-old boys are at age 14, they are not competent to deal with the consequences of sex any more than girls their age. If she really cared about that girl she’d do nothing but hold hands at the movies until the girl was old enough. I do not see why we have to equivocate like this. It’s not always about the adult pervert, it’s about the agency of the “victim”. 14 year olds don’t have it and 16 year olds do.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM

the relationship didn’t begin when Hunt was 18, she was 17 for the majority of it, and on her 18th birthday the parents of the younger girl had her arrested. At no point following her turning 18 did she have any contact with the younger girl.

Edunai on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

This is false, and a lie put out by her and her parents. According to her birth certificate, Kaitlyn turned 18 in August before her senior year, and the girl didn’t turn 15 until this past april. Look at The Other McCain. http://theothermccain.com/2013/05/25/freekate-lies-rejected-by-daily-kos-staffer-and-other-new-developments/

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:17 PM

NAMBLA approves.

boone on May 25, 2013 at 12:17 PM

If convicted for “lewd and lascivious assault” and the other charges, Hunt could face more than a decade in jail and a lifetime on the sex offender registry. This has, predictably, resulted in a national furor on both sides of the case, with detractors claiming that the younger girl’s parents are homophobes who objected to their daughter having a girlfriend, (a charge they have since denied) and supporters declaring that the age gap defines Hunt as a sex offender and the law is protecting the younger girl.

Gay child molester may escape penalty because she’s gay.

Maybe if I “confess” to being gay I can hunt 14 year old girls for sex without fear of punishment.

Are we sure thats the right message to send? “Heterosexuals must abide by the law; homo’s do not because they’re special”

Secondly, are we saying that being 18 doesn’t make you an adult, and being 14 doesn’t mean you’re a minor?

BobMbx on May 25, 2013 at 12:18 PM

She has turned down a plea deal to stage a political martyrdom…which The Gay Lobby hopes to use to lower the age of consent.

The adult cheerleader is a predator.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

Well, if she loses and ends up in the Big House, hope it was worth it to her. And no crying in a follow-up Oprah interview.

Bitter Clinger on May 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Your sub-head was “Love and the law”

What’s love got to do with it…?!?!

Ragspierre on May 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Happy birthday, go to jail.

Kenosha Kid on May 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

When interviewed by Law Enforcement about the age of the 14 year old…The adult predator said…”She acted older”

How many times has this been uttered by other predators…

The adult cheerleader is a manipulative sexual predator…nuff said.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Let me put it another way, 17 year old star football player has 14 year old cheerleader girlfriend. Football player turns 18, has no contact with his girlfriend following this point, and is arrested for the same charges. Think about it.

Edunai on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

This would be a simple case of statutory rape, and would never make the news….anywhere.

Welcome to male heterosexualism.

BobMbx on May 25, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Lesbians have an issue with the concept of jailbait? Cry me a river. As a Christian I was exercising restraint for reasons beyond simply staying out of jail, but these have been the rules since forever.

After reading the further details posted above, we have a sense of the scope of abuse and destruction perpetrated upon that 14 YO by that predator. Yes it’s a stupid thing to get incarcerated for, but that’s always true. The focus should be less on the consequence that Hunt faces than the damage she did to her victim, which is the reason for these laws in the first place.

TexasDan on May 25, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Local news story.

Ben Hur on May 25, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Gross. I wish we wouldn’t oblige them.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM

which The Gay Lobby hopes to use to lower the age of consent.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

That’s going to be the ‘solution’ to situations like this, coming from liberals.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

BINGO!

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Am I a terrible person for saying I really do not care?

So be it. I don’t give a flip.

tru2tx on May 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Let me put it another way, 17 18 year old star football player has 14 year old cheerleader girlfriend. Football player turns 18, has no contact with his girlfriend following this point, and is arrested for the same charges. Think about it.

Edunai on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Yes, this happens literally all the time.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:24 PM

I think this is a perfect example of the conflict that arises over two related, but actually quite dissimilar legal concepts – namely ‘equality’ and ‘fairness’. It is just simply the case that treating everyone equally is sometimes unfair, and vice versa. Justice should be blind, but not soulless.

Knott Buyinit on May 25, 2013 at 12:25 PM

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

They aren’t even clever enough to come up with better than these old cliched talking points? I’ve been saying for a while that the sexualization of children is the next trend and the young adults in my life look at me like I just jumped out of a fruit cake.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

blink on May 25, 2013 at 12:26 PM

It was in all the initial news reports. But facts are facts and birth certificates do not lie. She was 18 the whole time.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

tru2tx on May 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Is that regardless of what the final determination is?

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:29 PM

sexualization of children is the next trend

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

There are some well-known clothing lines that sell thongs for toddlers. The trend is already here.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 12:30 PM

I think the trend from Jr. High/Sr. High schools to middle/high schools has made this situation worse. Some kids now start high school at age 13. Hunt was warned by the parents. She should have backed off.

hopeful on May 25, 2013 at 12:31 PM

I don’t watch CNN so I guess I missed this “story”. What disturbs me here is the same-sex angle. Not that two girls were having sex with each other, but that the typical homosexual scolds are trying to turn this into something different than it is. Either sex with a minor (age of consent under Florida law) is illegal or it isn’t. There is nothing else of any relevant value in this story.

NotCoach on May 25, 2013 at 12:32 PM

And I’d add, Hunt’s unwillingness to stop the relationship or realize to begin with that she shouldn’t be dating a 14 year old shows she’s not very mature.

hopeful on May 25, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Tough sh**, Kaitlyn. Adult actions have adult consequences; end of story.

M240H on May 25, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Didn’t they have sex in a school bathroom? Why should she be given a pass on that?

Blake on May 25, 2013 at 12:00 PM

On more than one occasion…and Hunt admitted it on taped phone calls.

14 year olds do not have the mental executive function capacity to give consent.

18 year olds are legal adults and should incure the same penalties.

Hunt wants to be special…cause she’s female and gay.

If Hunt did this to a boy…would it be different in the eyes of the law?

If Hunt were male and did this to a 14 year old female he’d be in the clink.

If Hunt were a male eagle scout and did this to a webelo scout the liberals would celebrate it as another love story thwarted by homophobic parents…

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Jazz, the article by Mataconis lacks several important facts in this case. Among them:

1) the parents have been publicly identified, in that they have made a public interview on this topic.

2) the parents twice asked the older girl to leave their daughter alone. They got involved when Kaitlyn helped their daughter run away from home and live at Kaitlyn’s house.

3) she was offered a lenient plea deal that she turned down.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:35 PM

Let her have the same consequences that anyone else would have to face.
end of story.

ted c on May 25, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Has NAMBLA weighed in yet? Friend of the court brief maybe?

Akzed on May 25, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Prosecutors have discretion specifically because of cases like this, where the application law leads to an objectionable result. She should be given a slap on the wrist, and I hope that’s what happens.

NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM

All you need is love! NO H8! =

El_Terrible on May 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM

It’s not statutory rape rape you know.

Whoopie Goldberg

Robert Jensen on May 25, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Is it safe to assume that anyone who thinks nothing is wrong with this must think that sex between any two “consenting” kids (no gender specified) is totally okay in the high school bathroom? The younger girl’s parents apparently didn’t have a problem with their daughter’s sexual preference. They had a problem with the age of the partner. At least they were trying to be parents and protect thier child. As opposed to Hunt’s parents who seemingly didn’t instill a basic sense of right and wrong in their child. I know I wouldn’t want my child to have been expelled from school and have that reflected on their (haha) “permanent record” because of a foolish act on school grounds. Or is okay and excuseble because they are just “kids in love?”

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

She should be given a slap on the wrist, and I hope that’s what happens.

NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Um. If a senior helped your freshman daughter run away from home so he could continue to have uninterrupted sex with her, would you think that was ok?

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Let me put it another way, 17 18 year old star football player has 14 year old cheerleader girlfriend. Football player turns 18, has no contact with his girlfriend following this point, and is arrested for the same charges. Think about it.

Edunai on May 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Yes, this happens literally all the time.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:24 PM

It’s a parent’s job to educate their kids.

My Dad did…scared the bejeebus out of me and my siblings…both genders.

For the boys it was keep your zipper shut & your nose clean or enjoy Jail cause he wouldn’t pay for nuthin’

For the girls it was keep your legs shut or your raising that bastard by yourself.

Bottom line Dad wasn’t gonna bail us out of trouble we created cause we were stupid or stubborn.

Blunt but effective…Kinda old fashioned, But we knew he meant it.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

When interviewed by Law Enforcement about the age of the 14 year old…The adult predator said…”She acted older”
How many times has this been uttered by other predators…
The adult cheerleader is a manipulative sexual predator…nuff said.
workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Yup.
And the BSA just got a glimpse of it’s future with this case.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 12:30 PM

I raised my daughter in the era of Madonna. Apparently one of her strongest memories of her youth is a shopping trip with neighbors buying outfits with “her own money”. It resulted in another shopping trip to return said purchases. She was crushed, I don’t even remember it. Young teenagers are not playing with a full deck and should be treated accordingly.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Secret relationships always end up with bad things happening.

A bit of a sweeping statement, but a valid sentiment. When I was 19, dated two 17-year-olds (not simultaneously). One was in the same college class as I, so no one even thought twice about it. However, the other was a high-schooler, and her dad forbade the relationship because I was a “college guy” (and you know what they want). In retrospect, I was probably a safer bet than most guys her age. It didn’t end there, and it would have been healthier if we weren’t forced to sneak around. Even then I recall thinking that it was rather stupid of him to be so strict, as that generally makes teens react in the opposite manner. (Speaking of which, I ran into her years later and mentioned this site; it turns out that, because of his strictness, combined with his right-wing views, she was not very tolerant of right-wing politics. Like I said, teens tend to react, and sometimes those reactionary attitudes don’t change.)

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

New CW: Predatory perverts need prison time…unless they’re members of protected groups.

itsnotaboutme on May 25, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Tell that to the parents of young 11 year old Boy Scouts who come back from a camp out sodomized by openly gay 17 year old scouts.

The BSA just created “Protected Class” predators seeking new converts.

Robert Jensen on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Fear is not always a bad thing.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

17 is not 14. Honestly, it wouldn’t be a big deal if the age gap wasn’t so very wide. 4 years is a whole lot when you’re that young.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

I think this story has gotten the attention it has because we’re talking two gay girls and the accused is a pretty blonde girl-next-door type.

If this were two gay boys, would this story have anywhere near the legs this one has?

Bitter Clinger on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

Not to connect this to the BSA case… but how many ‘I’ll take good care of your daughter’ weekend long camping trips did it take for her to seduce her not so legal GF? None. But that would have made it a lot easier fer sure

RalphyBoy on May 25, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Um. If a senior helped your freshman daughter run away from home so he could continue to have uninterrupted sex with her, would you think that was ok?

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Probably not. Good thing I didn’t say it is, eh? :)

NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Tough sh**, Kaitlyn. Adult actions have adult consequences; end of story.

M240H on May 25, 2013 at 12:34 PM

Yep!

Her parents must be smokin’ crack.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:48 PM

When interviewed by Law Enforcement about the age of the 14 year old…The adult predator said…”She acted older”

Reminds me of a horrible, NSFW, Polanski-esque joke.

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 12:48 PM

tru2tx on May 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Is that regardless of what the final determination is?

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:29 PM

Yeah – I think so. I am sick to death of people having zero self control and not wanting to take responsibility for their actions.

Add to it, if it’s a story that some twit is fanning flames to be famous, as you alluded to earlier, well – phooey.

Everyone wants to be a Kardashian.

Therefore, don’t care.

tru2tx on May 25, 2013 at 12:48 PM

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM

Parenting is not for the faint of heart. My folks trusted me and let me know it. Often. I tried very hard not to betray that trust. My friends who had very strict parents got into far more trouble. If my kids knew how hard I weighed the big decisions and how I second guessed (in silence) my instincts, they would be astounded.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:51 PM

She should be given a slap on the wrist, and I hope that’s what happens.
NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Um. If a senior helped your freshman daughter run away from home so he could continue to have uninterrupted sex with her, would you think that was ok?
alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Correct – and we should dispense with the euphemisms and such nicities like “senior: & “freshman”. This is a simple case of an adult luring a children away from home to sexually abuse her. If this were not a “Rainbow Crime” and instead involved an adult male who was perpetuating this crime against the female child the key would be thrown away. And rightfully so.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 12:52 PM

tru2tx on May 25, 2013 at 12:48 PM

You are right, I’d like to think we are giving the situation and not the people the attention but I don’t think it works that way. Our media “role models” leave a lot to be desired.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:53 PM

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Fear is not always a bad thing.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

Well…In the old days it was called Parental Authority.

Dad was fairly judicious in it’s use…and this was during the turbulent 70′s and 80′s.

He was raising 6 kids in a catholic family.

That said…none of us had shot-gun weddings…jail time or bastards & 3 out of 6 made it through college and passed down the wisdom.

Dad’s line “I don’t work hard to bail you out of jail.”

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:54 PM

I’m 30 now.. for the record.

When my ex-wife started HS she was 13.. I was going into my junior year, was 16 then, turned 17 in November.. Whitney turned 14 in September.. so we were only 3 years apart..

The following year, when I turned 18 her mother used that as a way to get us to break up. She really didn’t care much for me. Major asshole but there was a tremendous amount of threats lobbed my way in regards to ruining my life if I didn’t break up with her daughter.

Long story short, we ended up getting married and stayed that way for 12 years. In the end though, the non-stop harassment and involvement of her mother eventually was more than I could handle and she and I parted ways.

Regardless, I guess there’s a slight difference, as I was 18 and she was 15, but still, these laws are ultra complicated. I would like to add that, in my situation, the mother’s objection wasn’t related to my age, but more of a social strata sort of thing. If I had been from the preferred social background (her mother liberal feminist lunatic eco-nut, my family big in the coal business) and was even older than I was, it would have been perfectly fine.

I guess I’m saying that idiotic parents use these laws as a bludgeon against relationships they don’t approve of (for reasons other than age difference).

preallocated on May 25, 2013 at 12:54 PM

They’re just doing what they were taught in school.

JellyToast on May 25, 2013 at 12:55 PM

It was in all the initial news reports. But facts are facts and birth certificates do not lie. She was 18 the whole time.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

The fact that Hunt and her parents lied is going to hurt their case. Duped reporters aren’t going to be as willing to defend her now. And, unlikely a Benghazi or IRS story, the truth about this will most definitively become widely known.

blink on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

Kinda like St. Skittles.

The parents lied in a PR stunt to get a reaction…But our historical president and his crew do the same thing.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM

Another thing I find telling about Hunt is that the relationship seems to have been formed and continued on the basis of raw sex. It’s not like the intimacy developed as a natural progression of two people caring about each other first. Hunt seemed to want to sexually dominate someone, and a girl four years her junior would be an ideal candidate.

I’m mean — in public bathrooms? Not even I was that horny or ‘adventurous’.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Parenting is not for the faint of heart. My folks trusted me and let me know it. Often. I tried very hard not to betray that trust. My friends who had very strict parents got into far more trouble. If my kids knew how hard I weighed the big decisions and how I second guessed (in silence) my instincts, they would be astounded.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 12:51 PM

No, it’s not. But when you see it come full circle, you know you did something right along the way. ;-)
I’m sitting here right now with my eldest daughter and son in law. She’s in early labor with our first grand.

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 12:59 PM

Correct – and we should dispense with the euphemisms and such nicities like “senior: & “freshman”. This is a simple case of an adult luring a children away from home to sexually abuse her. If this were not a “Rainbow Crime” and instead involved an adult male who was perpetuating this crime against the female child the key would be thrown away. And rightfully so.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 12:52 PM

That said, there’s nothing wrong with taking into account the level of damage done (or not done) to the victim when deciding what the final punishment should be. If a fact-finder determines that no apparent damage is done to the victim, why give the perpetrator the same punishment as another who left his/her victim in a catatonic state, for example?

NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Not “Senior” and “Freshman” but “Adult” and “Jailbait.”

This is the next frontier though, peds will be the new MLKs soon. Selective morality is unsustainable.

29Victor on May 25, 2013 at 1:00 PM

I’m mean — in public bathrooms? Not even I was that horny or ‘adventurous’.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM

According to Jazz that’s “love.”

29Victor on May 25, 2013 at 1:02 PM

There would be not question of guilt of statutory rape if the older one was a guy and got the 14 year old girl pregnant. But then the school nurse could make the evidence go away with with the help of the local plan parenthood.

tjexcite on May 25, 2013 at 1:02 PM

17 is not 14. Honestly, it wouldn’t be a big deal if the age gap wasn’t so very wide. 4 years is a whole lot when you’re that young.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 12:46 PM

But the point is the same: Parents being too strict about relationships can backfire. That’s true whether the age spread is 2 years, 4 years, or 0 years. Also, perceptions matter. Two college freshman dating won’t raise hackles even if there is a two-year spread. Similarly, two women dating — it seems — won’t get the same treatment as a relationship with at least one man involved. I was once on a college trip whether there were two lesbians with a similar age difference, but plus four years, so it was (probably) legal. No one commented on the age difference; instead the comments were that they were lesbians (from those who didn’t approve) or that they had an inappropriate amount of PDA (from those who did). Had they been in an opposite-sex relationship, I wonder if folks might have commented on the four-year age difference. Maybe. Maybe not.

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 1:02 PM

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