Holder reveals: U.S. has killed four American citizens in drone strikes

posted at 6:01 pm on May 22, 2013 by Allahpundit

You can read the PDF of his letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee disclosing the number here. If you’re having trouble grasping the magnitude of it, let Greg Pollowitz help you:

Correct. Three jihadis, most famously Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, were waterboarded during Bush’s first term; four American citizens, most famously Anwar al-Awlaki, have been summarily liquidated from the air by the Civil Liberties President. Awlaki, incidentally, is the only one who was deliberately targeted. The other three are collateral damage, and you’re probably familiar with two of them. One was Awlaki’s teenaged son, who was killed a few weeks after his father while in the company of another jihadi suspect in Yemen. The other is Samir Khan, one of Awlaki’s disciples in propaganda and allegedly the editor of Inspire, Al Qaeda’s “magazine.” Khan, to my knowledge, was never accused of planning an attack, although he made it a lot easier for degenerates like the Tsarnaevs to kill people by publishing bombmaking instructions. He was killed in the same strike that killed Awlaki.

Who’s the fourth victim? That’s what Holder revealed today:

While rumors of [Jude Kenan] Mohammed’s death had appeared in local news reports in Raleigh, N.C., where he lived, his death had not been confirmed by the United States government until Wednesday.

According to former acquaintances of Mr. Mohammed in North Carolina, he appears to have been killed in a November 2011 drone strike in South Waziristan, in Pakistan’s tribal area. Mr. Mohammed’s wife, whom he had met and married in Pakistan, subsequently called his mother in North Carolina to tell her of his death, the friends say.

What was he doing in Waziristan? From a story last year by WRAL in North Carolina:

Khalilah Sabra, executive director of the North Carolina Muslim American Society, says she knew Mohammad well and described him as “just a regular neighborhood kid,” but also “a vulnerable youth.”…

Sabra says Mohammad left for Peshwar, Pakistan, in 2008 with one goal – to make jihad – because he didn’t agree with the war in Afghanistan and said he was going there to fight. Family members have insisted he went there in hopes that his father, a native of Pakistan, would pay for his college education there.

“He was never secret about his intentions,” Sabra said.

November 2011 was, incidentally, an especially busy time for U.S. drones in Pakistan’s tribal areas. There were three strikes in Waziristan that month, according to Long War Journal. The first, on November 3, targeted Haqqani Network fighters and represented the sixth strike in just eight days. Two more followed on consecutive days later in the month targeting “Taliban fighters” and “militants.” The White House was casting a proverbial wide net; Mohammed got caught up in it.

What’s public reaction to the news likely to be? Given Mohammed’s alleged jihadi aspirations, probably tacit assent. Fox News conducted a poll on drone strikes after Rand Paul’s Senate filibuster that tried to gauge which variables made Americans more or less leery about a drone strike. Are strikes on foreign soil okay? What if the target’s a U.S. citizen? What about a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil? Here’s what they found:

jm

Clear support, even among Democrats. In fact, respondents were slightly more in favor of using drones in this scenario than they were in the reverse scenario where you have drones being used against a foreign terrorist who’s operating on U.S. soil. The big caveat, though, in applying this to Mohammed’s case is that he wasn’t targeted as a “suspected terrorist,” even if he was in the area to fight with the Taliban. By Holder’s own admission, he was collateral damage in a strike that was aimed at someone else. Ask the public whether they’re okay with turncoat Americans being killed incidentally in targeting a terror suspect and the numbers might change. Or maybe not: If I had to bet, I’d guess that most of the majority won’t fret about a guy being caught up in a Predator attack when he was allegedly there to fight American soldiers across the border. And if the numbers did move in response to learning that Mohammed was collateral damage, don’t be so sure that they’d move most dramatically among Democrats. Guy Benson marvels that, based on their ferocity to Bush’s waterboarding, Dems seem to object more to that than to summary execution of people whose identities aren’t even absolutely known. Are we sure they’d object to waterboarding jihadis if Obama brought it back, though? Whether because they repose special trust in Bambi not to abuse his power (too late!) or because they’re pure partisan hacks, they might very well let him slide even on that. The objection to Bush’s waterboarding was, I suspect, always more of an objection to Bush than to the waterboarding. They’re not necessarily inconsistent in supporting drone strikes too in that context.

By the way, if you missed it last night, sources tell Fox News that the feds know exactly where the mastermind of the Benghazi attack is and could go in and grab him — or give him the Awlaki treatment — at any time. When exactly did President Dronestrike discover restraint?

Update: Almost forgot: Obama’s big counterterrorism speech on drones and Gitmo is scheduled for tomorrow. Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.


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That’s our Nobel Peace Prize preznit for you! /s

geojed on May 22, 2013 at 6:04 PM

“What difference does it make”:

acyl72 on May 22, 2013 at 6:04 PM

Not too broken up by this, but I will ask, IF we don’t mind killing some US citizens, why do we have to try the Benghazi perpetrators, rather than droning their @rses?

Explain, please…Mr President.

JFKY on May 22, 2013 at 6:05 PM

That’s what they get for making YouTube vids…

hillsoftx on May 22, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Obama admin. goes from zero moral authority into the minus.

Schadenfreude on May 22, 2013 at 6:07 PM

It’s so good to see that the world loves Obama.

The US has never been more loved, evahhhh.

Schadenfreude on May 22, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Holder’s appears quite proud of himself, doesn’t he?

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

Maybe “President Dronestrike” (nice) is trying to get Stedman to voluntarily go under the bus and this is Stedman’s reminder that he’ll go when he wants.

*shrug*

Just a guess. Who knows with these lunatics.

kim roy on May 22, 2013 at 6:08 PM

AP, you need to fix the comments on the Christie thread…they’re copied from yesterday’s QOTD thread.

James on May 22, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Update: Almost forgot: Obama’s big counterterrorism speech on drones and Gitmo is scheduled for tomorrow. Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

It might be a shot across the bow.

No one likes to be left for dead by a guy who has no problem with thinking Americans are expendable.

Dusty on May 22, 2013 at 6:10 PM

How many U.S. citizens were killed during interrogations at Guitmo?

fogw on May 22, 2013 at 6:11 PM

Update: Almost forgot: Obama’s big counterterrorism speech on drones and Gitmo is scheduled for tomorrow. Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

Not odd at all. This whole thing is to cover for the AP and FNC reporter over reaches. “See how hard we are working to keep you safe? Those reporters wanted to see you dead anyway”

JusDreamin on May 22, 2013 at 6:12 PM

And Code Pink is rallying all across the country…

coldwarrior on May 22, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Obama’s big counterterrorism speech on drones and Gitmo is scheduled for tomorrow. Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

Holder and Obama should never be regarded as super-smart, genius types. But what they ARE is cunning. And what I think they’re engaged in is an immensely intentional, predetermined campaign to overwhelm and confuse Americans, the likes of which our nation’s population has never experienced before.

Never assume these two are disconnected or at odds because they are not and any confusion or contradictions they APPEAR to be engaged in or creating should be held at arm’s length and greatly suspected as to their objective/s.

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 6:12 PM

It’s different when Obama kills US citizens. I trust him!

/Obots

Good Lt on May 22, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 6:12 PM

And after that, my internet connection will likely experience The Darkness.

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 6:13 PM

And Code Pink is rallying all across the country…

coldwarrior on May 22, 2013 at 6:12 PM

For what, more giant woowoo costumes? Public funding for them?

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 6:14 PM

How much lounger will it be before “low level employees” at DOD and CIA kill Tea Party members with drone strikes – totally by mistake, of course.

VorDaj on May 22, 2013 at 6:15 PM

#fact Obama has killed more US citizens than foreigners waterboarded under Bush

— Greg Pollowitz (@GPollowitz) May 22, 2013

So.

0bama is the lightbringer.

And 0bama will make us better liked in the muslim world.

And the reset with Russia.

cozmo on May 22, 2013 at 6:15 PM

Obama denied help when help was needed, to our military under fire. And lied about why he did to enable his political expediency, to protect himself (“his attorney advised him to”).

Clandestine, political expediency, four Americans left to perish, Obama jaunts off to be wined and dined and for his donors to get more belly laughs from his grandness.

In reality, it’s a tale about a coward and his tale. And about the bevy of supportive cowards who showed their tails to protect Obama’s.

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 6:18 PM

How many more shoes do these guys got to drop??

Wow, it’s raining shoes.

Axeman on May 22, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

Wheels coming off?

As for Smir Khan, anyone who visited Jawa Report regularly knew of his work for al Qaeda years ago, when he was still doing it from mommy’s basement. Hell, we had his home address.

novaculus on May 22, 2013 at 6:20 PM

How many more shoes do these guys got to drop??

Axeman on May 22, 2013 at 6:19 PM

As many as it takes.

cozmo on May 22, 2013 at 6:20 PM

How much longer until we find out that some anonymous low-level Whitehouse staffer was out of toilet paper, so they grabbed the Declaration and wiped themselves with it–purely accidentally!!

Axeman on May 22, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Clear support, even among Democrats. In fact, respondents were slightly more in favor of using drones in this scenario than they were in the reverse scenario where you have drones being used against a foreign terrorist who’s operating on U.S. soil. The big caveat, though, in applying this to Mohammed’s case is that he wasn’t targeted as a “suspected terrorist,” even if he was in the area to fight with the Taliban.

The obvious caveat — even if there is no inconsistency in opposing waterboarding while supporting drone strikes — is that the majority of Democrats’ distinction between U.S. citizens and non-citizens, waterboarding vs. drones and even potential terror attacks on foreign and domestic soil is likely no more nuanced than determining the occupant of the White House and if there’s a ‘D’ or an ‘R’ after their name.

There are Democrats who have been pounding Obama on both the drone strikes and targeting American citizens without trial, but they’re few and far between because it is Obama doing it and not George W. Bush. If the Republicans were to win back the White House in 3 1/2 years, those same actions would become war crimes even worse than waterboarding as of 1-20-17.

jon1979 on May 22, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Glenn Greenwald isn’t going to like this, even one little bit.

MTF on May 22, 2013 at 6:25 PM

Nah…..theres a whistleblower somewhere. O and gang wanted to admit and get ahead of the story, before it turns into another scandal. Thats whats happening.

tommy71 on May 22, 2013 at 6:26 PM

But that waterboarding was scary to those jihadists…

d1carter on May 22, 2013 at 6:28 PM

about that update… you’re talking about “the most transparent administration in US history.” you’re silly to think obama is worried about the timing of unflattering information being released.

/

dbilly76 on May 22, 2013 at 6:28 PM

When does the IRS get its drone fleet?

Curtiss on May 22, 2013 at 6:29 PM

I think there may be a pattern developing here..?

d1carter on May 22, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Here’s what is potentially awesome about conservative criticisms of Benghazi and drone policy. It seems to be generating a serious conversation about the problem of the War on Terror and the notion of perpetual war. Can we start talking about the far reaching consequences of a nation that describes itself as perennially at war. Conservatism has a critique of government as an octopus whose arms can work their way into our very homes, and snatch essential freedoms from us. They deploy this critique in order to oppose nationalized healthcare, progressive income tax rates and the regulation of firearms. The Constitution, they argue, provides critical checks on government power.

Except that, of course, issues of national security historically have demanded the suspension of Constitutonal protections. This did not begin with George Bush, it has been a part of American warfare since the attacks on “Tories” during the American Revolution. But here’s the thing. For most of our history, those suspensions of Constitutional protections were limited to the time of war, wars that had clear beginnings and ends. Now arguably, we’ve been in a state of constant war not since 9/11, but 1947. And before you say that there’s something substantively different about the Cold War, I will remind you just how repressive this nation was towards communism in the forties and fifties. There were strict regulations on cultural content, secondary education, the nation was on a hunt for anything “subversive.”
But nonetheless, we should’ve learned from that period, instead of relieving it now. It shouldn’t take us two decades to get out of this perpetual war space, if this is a society that has truly progressed, why can’t we recognize it?

Except now, conservatives are I guess. Will these critiques of state power and the disbelief in its honesty and automatic “executive privilege” remain once Obama is out of office? I hope so.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 6:32 PM

If Holder is admitting to this, it means there is something REALLY, REALLY AWFUL that they know is about to drop. Who else they been killin’?

Rational Thought on May 22, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light,

It’s perfectly in sync.

Tomorrow is Blue Meat day for the base, as a kind of Barry Mea Culpa so his ratings don’t drop below 50%.

He’s going to apologize for killing Awlaki’s son.

Because, as I’ve said multiple times, that will turn out to be the catalyst for the Tsarnaev brothers.

And this will let Barry get out ahead of that fact when it comes to light.

Barry knows his base. They judge by intentions, not actions. Once he claims good intentions, you cannot call him a liar because now you’re being judgmental, which when it comes to Barry, is a sign of bigotry.

budfox on May 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM

Maybe “President Dronestrike” (nice) is trying to get Stedman to voluntarily go under the bus and this is Stedman’s reminder that he’ll go when he wants.

*shrug*

Just a guess. Who knows with these lunatics.

kim roy on May 22, 2013 at 6:08 PM

That was my first thought, too.

The Rogue Tomato on May 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM

Why is this information being released now???
Hmmmmm….

albill on May 22, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Suddenly the NY Times commenters reads like a bunch of freepers.

strictnein on May 22, 2013 at 6:41 PM

He’s going to apologize for killing Awlaki’s son.

budfox on May 22, 2013 at 6:36 PM

If he had another son besides Trayvon, he might look like Awlaki’s son.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 6:41 PM

The Democrat hypocrisy is thick with this one.

txhsmom on May 22, 2013 at 6:42 PM

If Holder is admitting to this, it means there is something REALLY, REALLY AWFUL that they know is about to drop. Who else they been killin’?

Rational Thought on May 22, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Jeez Louise! On second thought, I hope you’re right.

txhsmom on May 22, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Update: Almost forgot: Obama’s big counterterrorism speech on drones and Gitmo is scheduled for tomorrow. Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

Obama wants Obama to fail.

/simple, really

Key West Reader on May 22, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Nobel Peace Prize WINNAH!

And Uh-Chelle is taking off for an “extended stay” at Martha’s Vineyard. totally unrelated, I’m sure.

Key West Reader on May 22, 2013 at 6:45 PM

Firehose, firehose, firehose…

d1carter on May 22, 2013 at 6:46 PM

The Democrat hypocrisy is thick with this one.

txhsmom on May 22, 2013 at 6:42 PM

No. Entirely consistent with who they are. It is in their DNA. The end justifies any means, and intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually they are self insulated from even the appearance of hypocrisy or irony. Just look at the trool comment from the self-actuating intellectual hermaphrodite a few comments up.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 6:46 PM

US also kills US citizens inside the US who aren’t terrorists… just in the course of criminal activity.

So what’s the big deal if the US kills US citizens who commit not just violent crimes but acts of terror and acts of war against the US?

The problem with the so-titled “War on Terror” is that it’s done away from the public’s eye. The monsters who get taken out and their monsterous plans by and large never become public knowledge, and that’s good. The tool of terror is for it to be widely publicized to effect political change in the targeted country. The less it is publicized, the less it is successful. But the successes in the “War on Terror” also end up creating the obstacle for those who fight it – the public is never made aware of the enemy, and so cannot conceive or understand why the US government would want to target for death a US citizen which is committing some sort of acts which the public can’t really imagine or take seriously.

AlexB on May 22, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Didn’t the White House announce months ago that Mr. Obama himself selects the targets from a list and then personally authorizes each drone killing?

Mason on May 22, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Didn’t the White House announce months ago that Mr. Obama himself selects the targets from a list and then personally authorizes each drone killing?

Mason on May 22, 2013 at 6:49 PM

No. They announced that they heard it in the news that they might be doing this.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Can’t blame Bush on this one

cmsinaz on May 22, 2013 at 6:52 PM

Major speech on terrorism. Probably followed by a major award for bravery and valor in the face of very difficult, group-sourced decisions.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 6:52 PM

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Interesting post. You’ve said enough there that I’m interested in a dialog.

That’s one of the problems of government though. It does somethings, and not always what you want and how you want it done.

There is no guarantee of a positive outcome, but we invest the government with coercive force so we may retain our right to self-govern. Safety and homemaking have to be balanced one against the other.

We do not relish a totally secure police-state, because, historically, they are usually in a state of war as well, and as well as a foreign enemy, they jeopardize the well-being of the people themselves. But we also don’t want to become unpragmatic about the necessity of allocating force for the protection of our way of life.

I think the preamble is one of the best statements for how we should live. The Union is not all about providing for the common defense and ensuring domestic tranquility, but has the elements of establishing justice, promoting the general welfare and securing (not liberty itself) but the blessings of liberty.

However, all those are not exactly natural, so we struggle against the natural for the potentially doable. What makes me a staunch anti-liberal is that liberals tend to start out with how things should be and then protest and pitch a fit that they are not.

The Barack Obama that campaigned on the fatal flaw of the Bush administration was to let actions stray from our ideals–and standard liberal bromides, cannot be the one who says “You know, sometimes you have to drone-strike people.” A 9-11 event can almost justify a swing like that to a sitting president, but there is not much new information flowing to President Obama, other than possibly those that decrease his ignorance about how things really are.

Especially not the Barack Obama that threatened to imitate a banana republic and prosecute the former administration for making decisions that, in his campaigning mode, he would be against.

Axeman on May 22, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Can’t blame Bush on this one

cmsinaz on May 22, 2013 at 6:52 PM

You underestimate the 0bama/media alliance.

Give them a little time.

cozmo on May 22, 2013 at 6:56 PM

Can we start talking about the far reaching consequences of a nation that describes itself as perennially at war.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Credit where credit is due. This is your best post I’ve seen, and I agree that when we announced this war on terrorism, it would be endless. I don’t know how else to prosecute it, however, if their host countries won’t go after them.

John the Libertarian on May 22, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Update: Almost forgot: Obama’s big counterterrorism speech on drones and Gitmo is scheduled for tomorrow. Holder’s letter seems … untimely in that light, since coverage of this story is going to swallow up O’s speech tomorrow and leave him on the defensive. Odd.

Nope. O will use to his advantage somehow…

ladyingray on May 22, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Someone should tell Senator Obama about this. He’s gonna be ripshit when he finds out.

Bruce MacMahon on May 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM

Can we start talking about the far reaching consequences of a nation that describes itself as perennially at war.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Credit where credit is due. This is your best post I’ve seen, and I agree that when we announced this war on terrorism, it would be endless. I don’t know how else to prosecute it, however, if their host countries won’t go after them.

John the Libertarian on May 22, 2013 at 6:58 PM

With any war one should be in it to win. That hasn’t happened so it’s not really a “war” in the strictest sense and not anything we can assess on that basis.

This is more of an “outreach service”, with a few “bumps in the road”.

kim roy on May 22, 2013 at 7:05 PM

The Barack Obama that campaigned on the fatal flaw of the Bush administration was to let actions stray from our ideals–and standard liberal bromides, cannot be the one who says “You know, sometimes you have to drone-strike people.” A 9-11 event can almost justify a swing like that to a sitting president, but there is not much new information flowing to President Obama, other than possibly those that decrease his ignorance about how things really are.

If we can move beyond the concept that Obama is an evil despot focused on destroying the nation, it becomes a lot easier to understand how and why he so quickly abandoned his critiques of the War on Terror once he became head of the U.S. security state. The federal government had *incredible* institutional intertia. This is, of course, why conservatives critique the government’s inability to innovate in comparison to corporate America (though I think those critiques are based in an entirely different private economy than the corporatist/monopolistic one we have now which actively squelches new ways of doing things). So Obama entered into an institution operating with its own incredibly inertia, and frankly, he’s someone who doesn’t seem to have very many clear progressive principles. His whole career he has actually campaigned *against* radicalism and framed himself as a moderate. He ran to the *right* of Hillary Clinton in the 2008 primary on healthcare and national security (remember he argued for a surge in Afghanistan?). He ran against Bobby Rush (and lost) and did so campaigning against the angry identity politics of the past. Obama’s notion of “moving forward” has always included “moving forward” form the beats of leftist radicalism. So a combination of the man’s inherent moderate ideology and belief in “the system” as “fair” all would lend us to think that he would be precisely the President to continue Bush’s foreign policy with few changes. When you look in hindsight, this should have been clear to most people.

But for whatever reason (and I’m not going to diagnose it, lest this thread devolve) the right categorically *refused* to recognize these very basic facts about Barack Obama. You can interrogate why that is. But there’s no question that the belief that Obama is somehow a leftie, pinko commie who wants to rule this country and steal all of our freedoms has led people to imagine (I suppose) that they are subject to some new kind of aggressive attack on their civil liberties. And that’s false. This isn’t new. So my question remains. Will conservatives continue this line of attack against the next head of state or is it simply because they don’t like the man?

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:11 PM

If we can move beyond the concept that Bush is an evil despot focused on destroying the nation,
libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:11 PM

You first scumbag.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:15 PM

BUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSH. Oh, a beautiful Black man as President has certain realities to face.

LIBFREE – any post, any time, any year.

You horseshit eating scum-sucking pig.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:17 PM

You first scumbag.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:15 PM

BUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSHBUSH. Oh, a beautiful Black man as President has certain realities to face.

LIBFREE – any post, any time, any year.

You horseshit eating scum-sucking pig.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:17 PM

Really?

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Lois Lame Lerner in the cross-hairs tonight to make sure she doesn’t spill the beans tomorrow….

dentarthurdent on May 22, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Really?

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Yes. Really. Do you really not understand how much hate and vitriol you and your party have spouted about Bush and Republicans and Conservatives? You absolutly do. But you think it’s completely OK.

It isn’t OK. It was never OK. It will never be OK. And you will never change because lying and hatred is in your DNA, and in your heart and in your mind.

To your dying day you will hate Bush. Just say it. Be proud of who you are. Don’t be ashamed.

You think you are smarter and wiser than all of us put together. Just say it. Be proud of who you are. Don’t be ashamed.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:38 PM

An unimpressed Janet “Barbecue” Reno scoffed:

“When Holder manages to kill nearly 80 Americans, no penalty, in a day like I have then maybe he can say he’s earned his jackboots properly.”

viking01 on May 22, 2013 at 7:39 PM

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Have you done anything other than teach at a University before? Something useful like teaching math at a grade school? Can you bag groceries even? Even been on the working end of a hoe? Do you know where the food you eat comes from and who has to bust their ass to get it to you so you can “think” for the rest of us? Got an idea where the gas that goes in your Prius comes from? Electricity that lights your lecture room?

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:44 PM

If you are aligned with Jihadis, on foreign soil, to me that makes you the same as an armed murderer confronting the police. If a person is with known terrorists, or Jihadis on foreign soil and the death is incidental with an attack on the terrorists, it is acceptable collateral damage.

American Citizens who have sided with our enemies have been killed intentionally or otherwise in almost every war or armed conflict in our history.

On US soil benifit of the doubt must be given and due process followed, if a person abroad is captured or turns his/her self in to US or allied authorities, then due process must be followed.

This is what I believe.

Rode Werk on May 22, 2013 at 7:45 PM

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Are you upset because I have a privileged middle class job and lifestyle. I thought the right wasn’t into class envy. No I haven’t ever worked behind a hoe. I happen to not have to do that. I believe a conservative would say, if you don’t like working behind a hoe, find a way not to. I did. Deal.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Didn’t the White House announce months ago that Mr. Obama himself selects the targets from a list and then personally authorizes each drone killing?

Mason on May 22, 2013 at 6:49 PM

More than a little ghoulish, that. He can’t be bothered with all those tedious, boring details about everything — “erudite” he’s called by his fans — but he “selects the targets from a list and then personally authorizes each drone killing.” Ghoulish.

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 8:00 PM

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Are you upset because I have a privileged middle class job and lifestyle. I thought the right wasn’t into class envy. No I haven’t ever worked behind a hoe. I happen to not have to do that. I believe a conservative would say, if you don’t like working behind a hoe, find a way not to. I did. Deal.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:59 PM

“oldroy” isn’t referring to “class envy.” He’s pointing out that you are disconnected from a great deal of reality and likely, by your own desire (or, “choice”).

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 8:02 PM

I have a privileged middle class job and lifestyle…. if you don’t like working behind a hoe, find a way not to. I did. Deal.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:59 PM

But, YOU are “into class envy”. Based upon what you wrote there, self-defining by it.

Lourdes on May 22, 2013 at 8:04 PM

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Who are you and what have you done with libfree? Why all this substance instead of 100% snark?

To respond to you, in a nutshell, I disagree with a lot of points you make above but it’s neither here nor there; I am uncomfortable with droning American citizens be they on our soil or anywhere else, and I don’t see this changing depending on who is in power. I can see how in extraordinary circumstances it could be the right thing to do, but if it is to be permitted, it needs to be a very high bar indeed.

If the past few years have taught me anything, it’s never give government a power or tool which you wouldn’t be comfortable with the opposition party wielding. See: DHS. This holds true not just for the parties as they are today, but for as they might be at any point in the future.

rightmind on May 22, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Soooo tired of this president. He makes me feel so weary and hopeless sometimes.

scalleywag on May 22, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Are you upset because I have a privileged middle class job and lifestyle. I thought the right wasn’t into class envy. No I haven’t ever worked behind a hoe. I happen to not have to do that. I believe a conservative would say, if you don’t like working behind a hoe, find a way not to. I did. Deal.

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Why are you surprised? Hatred spewed multiplied by 1000 by you and your kind and you don’t have a clue why I’ve lost my temper? Have I not been one of the few that would at least defend that you should be able to make an argument?

But do you honestly not understand how backwards you are? Do you honestly not understand how much hatred you have spewed?

Do you honestly not understand that you are simply baggage that needs to be cast off? You should be forced to collect money directly from your students. You should be forced to represent something of so much value that your students have to pay out of their pockets. Could you pass that test? If I or any other upper-class taxpayer that pays the freight for the entire friggin country didn’t have to subsidize your lifestyle, could you make it by selling lessons of what you teach directly in the market?

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 8:25 PM

If I or any other upper-class taxpayer that pays the freight for the entire friggin country didn’t have to subsidize your lifestyle, could you make it by selling lessons of what you teach directly in the market?

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 8:25 PM

And no. I don’t mean by selling lesson plans to University who pays you teach. I mean direct teaching. Even in groups. Is what you do so valuable, so intriguing, so necessary, so accessible and clear, that event the man and woman and student off the street would pay you willingly out of their pocket?

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 8:32 PM

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Do you honestly not understand that you and your kind have behaved like an exhibit of the great apes throwing shit around their cage for a generation? And no, this is not intended as a racial slur towards you (which you’ve described yourself as so many races that I can’t count) or your precious 25% Black President.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 8:36 PM

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Friggin’ modern day Socrates, where are you? On google and wiki-effing-pedia?

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 8:39 PM

US drone program Obama to explain rationale for done strikes in Thursday’s speech – @Reuters

Submitted 46 mins ago from http://www.reuters.com by editor
====================================================

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/22/us-usa-obama-drones-idUSBRE94L1C420130522

canopfor on May 22, 2013 at 8:58 PM

Friggin’ modern day Socrates, where are you? On google and wiki-effing-pedia?
oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Watching you act a damn fool on this thread……

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Nobel Peace Prize WINNAH!

And Uh-Chelle is taking off for an “extended stay” at Martha’s Vineyard. totally unrelated, I’m sure.

Key West Reader on May 22, 2013 at 6:45 PM

Key West Reader:

Ahoy KWR,I hope everything in your world is tickety boo,
good to see you on H/A -:)

canopfor on May 22, 2013 at 9:19 PM

And Uh-Chelle is taking off for an “extended stay” at Martha’s Vineyard. totally unrelated, I’m sure.

Key West Reader on May 22, 2013 at 6:45 PM

*waving at KWR*

Who will take care of the gah-den whilst Mah-rie Antoinette is at Mah-tha’s Vin-yahd?

Fallon on May 22, 2013 at 9:28 PM

Watching you act a damn fool on this thread……

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Typical. My opinion is not valuable because it is directed at you and your ideology. But turn it around in all it’s glorified anger and vitriol, and I should sit at your feet and be schooled for months and years. Just typical. And you still have no understanding of your impending doom.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Watching you act a damn fool on this thread……

libfreeordie on May 22, 2013 at 9:19 PM

You should put out some truck-driving school brochures at the door in the next class. Put the average Truck-drivers pay on the board and the average liberal arts degree pay on the board.

Then you should go learn how to drive a truck as back up, because I’m not willing to pay your way anymore. And if your own damned students had their choice of whether they had to pay for you or not, neither would they.

Take your pay. Don’t tell me. I don’ care. Divide by number of students in a year. Take that number and put in on your chalk-board or white board or whatever you use. Ask if your students would pay it. Take notes on the result. Then find a trade that you can turn to when this whole thing turns to shit.

oldroy on May 22, 2013 at 9:38 PM

Sounds like a little reminder about who knows where the bodies are buried. Who has the popcorn?

yesiamapirate on May 22, 2013 at 10:07 PM