Cleveland kidnapper may face death penalty — for beating pregnant captive until she miscarried

posted at 8:01 pm on May 9, 2013 by Allahpundit

“Wait,” you say, “can’t he get the death penalty for kidnapping, imprisoning, and raping three girls over and over again for 10 years?” Why, no. Our Supreme Court, in its wisdom, decided a few years ago that it would amount to cruel and unusual punishment to give the needle to a degenerate like this “merely” for raping children repeatedly. As a matter of constitutional law, due to society’s “evolving standards of decency,” only a crime that results in death can carry a capital sentence. Which is interesting, because I’d bet if you polled Americans today, you’d get upwards of 60-70 percent (and maybe more) to say that it’d be quite decent indeed to kill this guy, and not in a painless way like lethal injection either. Like I said when that SCOTUS decision was handed down, the irony of barring the death penalty for child-rapists due to “evolving standards” is that American society’s become much more sensitive to the psychological damage done to the victims of sexual crimes, especially when the victim is a child. The public’s “evolved” towards a fuller appreciation of the toll taken on the innocent and may, understandably, desire a penalty commensurate with that toll. But it can’t have it, even in a case like this where there’s zero doubt as to guilt or innocence.

So why is the prosecutor in Cleveland talking about death anyway? Because: Under Ohio law, killing a woman’s child when it’s in the womb — if it’s against her wishes — constitutes aggravated murder. Which, apparently, is what Castro did. Five separate times:

The police report described a nightmare scenario in which Ms. Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight were taken to Mr. Castro’s home and chained in the basement. Although the chains were later removed and they moved upstairs, they were all forced to have sex with Mr. Castro, the women told police.

Ms. Knight told police she had become pregnant five times, with Mr. Castro starving her and punching her in the stomach each time until she miscarried, according to the report.

Ms. Berry told police she had given birth to her daughter, Jocelyn, in a plastic pool. Ms. Knight described delivering the baby and reviving her at one point with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, under threat of death from Mr. Castro if she let the child die, according to the report.

Ms. DeJesus also said she had sex with Mr. Castro, but told police she didn’t think she had become pregnant.

One of the victims’ cousins told the NYT that he would serve them cake on the anniversary of their kidnappings to celebrate their abductions. That’s what we’re dealing with here.

Ace was all over the death-penalty angle the other day, incidentally. Here’s the relevant statute in Ohio:

2903.01 Aggravated murder.

(A) No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy…

(F) Whoever violates this section is guilty of aggravated murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.

Section 2929.02 puts death on the table for aggravated murder. “But wait,” you say, “doesn’t charging this piece of garbage with murder necessarily mean that the fetuses he killed in the womb are persons”? Why, yes. Courts and legislatures have been wrestling with that contradiction, where a fetus is something less than a person for purposes of lawful abortion but a full person for purposes of “unlawful termination,” since Roe was decided. There is a way to square the circle conceptually, but abortion warriors don’t like it: Instead of trying to redefine a fetus as something other than a “life,” they could acknowledge that it’s a life and then treat lawful abortion as a form of justifiable homicide. (That’s what Charles Murray does, for instance.) A “justifiable homicide” rationale for abortion essentially puts mom and doctor in the role of state-sanctioned executioners: Just as it’s okay for the state’s lethal-injection technician to execute a man on death row but not okay for you or me to kill him, it’s okay for a pregnant woman to authorize the killing but not for her degenerate kidnapper-rapist to punch her in the stomach until she miscarries. Having the word “homicide” attached to one of your most cherished policy priorities isn’t good messaging, though, and needing to explain repeatedly why killing a baby is “justifiable” is an unhappy prospect. So instead pro-choicers typically resort to the Orwellian rationale that a fetus in the womb isn’t a “person” and merely has the “potential” for life — unless and until the fetus is killed against the mother’s will, in which case it’s murder one and the prosecutor is empowered to apply the needle.

We need two separate poll questions asked of the public. Hopefully Rasmussen or Gallup or Pew or someone is game. Question one: Does Ariel Castro deserve death? Question two: Does Ariel Castro deserve death for forcing one of his captives to miscarry? I wonder if the number who say yes to question one will be greater than the number who say yes to question two, as illogical as that may be.


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nobody spells it like that

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

RWM does – she is somebody and you are still nobody, by your own logic.

Schadenfreude on May 9, 2013 at 9:28 PM

As a fan of Fox and Hot Air, I deplore both for adding to the hype on these tabloid trash stories: The Cleveland kidnapping and the Arias case. Hyped coverage of crap like this diminishes the seriousness of both Fox and Hot Air.

petefrt on May 9, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Rape and murder are pretty serious.

Tabloid trash stories are the latest Hollywood celebrity being DUI or on a sixth divorce.

It’s the way the media interviews and gives so much face time ad nauseum, running them into the ground. It trivializes heinous crime.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:28 PM

nobody spells it like that

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Well except these guys…

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/foetus

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-foetus.html

http://www.definitions.net/definition/foetus

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:29 PM

If you haven’t read the facts of the Kennedy v Louisiana case, you should. It involved a 8 year-old girl, who was so brutally raped by her step-father that she required extensive surgeries. The injuries were horrific.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

I’ll wager $100 that someone on a college campus in a very blue state will argue that Castro only removed his DNA from the gene pool and thus deserves a Darwin award not capitol punishment.

meci on May 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

The various laws control. In some states, the killing of a foetus (note: correct English spelling)

nobody spells it like that

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Nobody could ever accuse you of such behavior.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

Cw. After my original post yes I went and read thru the comments. That’s how I’ve been replying to people and which is why the time stamps are all stamped later than the original post.

Here’s what I don’t understand about this site. Most of you are extremely rude when you have no reason to be. This is the internet. If I wanted to find people who think exactly like me I’m sure I could but what fun is an echo chamber? Why is open honest dialouge so bad to most of you. I’m sure you can’t get through your real lives this way. I just like to talk to people who have differing opinions than me with out resulting to name calling and other rude responses.

I don’t even see much to disagree with on this thread. Geeze. Chill.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:31 PM

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Queen’s Enlish, lawyer.

RickB on May 9, 2013 at 9:31 PM

:(

Seven Percent Solution on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

nobody spells it like that

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

The ENTIRE United Kingdom and most of the Commonwealth spells it that way. It is the way that I learned how to spell the word. If I had spelled foetus as ‘fetus’ on a spelling test as a young child, I would have gotten it incorrect.

It has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with ‘trying to sound intellectual.’

You really should get a refund from whatever schools you attended.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

step-father

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

I need to see if there are stats about the likelihood of abuse by step fathers and boyfriends versus real fathers.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Pollytricks–

In other words I was right and you were wrong ….just admit it rather than complaining that I was mean.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:33 PM

It has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with ‘trying to sound intellectual.’

You really should get a refund from whatever schools you attended.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

nonpartisan is our resident nonintellectual. Does not compute.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Fire up Old Sparky and let him Ride the Lightning.

And bury him next to Dead Black Hat.

Bruno Strozek on May 9, 2013 at 9:13 PM

But I’m innocent. (:

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:36 PM

beats me…I think a woman should be able to sell her kidney if they want to

I also believe assisted suicide should be ok with consent

see, I’m consistent

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

I have no problem with the selling of organs as long as it is a consensual and informed process. I also have no problem with assisted suicide; provided, the ‘patient’ is doing it of her own free will.

The difference between a kidney and a foetus should be obvious. One is incapable of developing into a human life that can survive without the ‘host,’ for lack of a better term. The states in the United States have also found it against their public policies to purchase a child or foetus. In surrogacy situation, consideration can only be exchanged for expenses and housing, etc, during the pregnancy. A childless couple cannot buy the foetus or child and the surrogate can disavow the contract.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:39 PM

The ENTIRE United Kingdom and most of the Commonwealth spells it that way. It is the way that I learned how to spell the word. If I had spelled foetus as ‘fetus’ on a spelling test as a young child, I would have gotten it incorrect.

It has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with ‘trying to sound intellectual.’

You really should get a refund from whatever schools you attended.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

ok fine

not to belabour (see what I did there)but hotair is an american site, so why not just use the more common spelling rather than the british version?

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:40 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetus

The word fetus (plural fetuses) is from the Latin fētus (“offspring”, “bringing forth”, “hatching of young”).

Fœtus or foetus is the British, Irish and Commonwealth spelling, which has been in use since at least 1594.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:41 PM

I heard he had some arrests in his past although I don’t see how that matters. I think he did what a lot of people wouldn’t. There’s used to be a show that came on one of the networks that showed most americans will stay out of situations they feel don’t concern them even when they feel what is going on is illegal or wrong in some way.

None of us could ever say what we would do in a situation until we were in it but I hope that if I ever found myself in a situation like that I’d react the same way. I’m sure when the national media starts looking into any of our backgrounds I’m sure most people haven’t lived like a saint their whole life.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

While I don’t always agree with you, I’ll go out on a limb here and return the compliment you paid me earlier.

You’re right.

Mr. Ramsey’s past doesn’t matter in this case and probably would only matter if somebody decided to date and/or marry him. And he certainly did go above and beyond and did what had to be done, which sadly today many, many people would walk away from doing.

You wrote: None of us could ever say what we would do in a situation until we were in it but I hope that if I ever found myself in a situation like that I’d react the same way. I’m sure when the national media starts looking into any of our backgrounds I’m sure most people haven’t lived like a saint their whole life.

Very true. We all would like to think and believe that we’d step up to the plate, but how would we know for sure unless and until the rubber hits the road?

Speaking for myself, I surely would not want the national media poking around in my background; not because I’ve ever committed a crime or been arrested, but because there’s just too much junk from the past that I wouldn’t want to become public knowledge.

Perhaps in some small measure, it’s because people know what the national media can and/or will do to them and that may be why some people choose not to get involved even when the life of another human being is at stake.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Fœtus or foetus is the British, Irish and Commonwealth spelling, which has been in use since at least 1594.

That is over 100 years ago.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM

not to belabour (see what I did there)but hotair is an american site, so why not just use the more common spelling rather than the british version?

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Not to belabour (note spelling) the point, it is how I write.

Are you actually only now realising that I spell many words differently than you do?

Not very observant, eh?

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM

nonpartisan rambles on into meaningless minutia where it feels more comfortable.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Fœtus or foetus is the British, Irish and Commonwealth spelling.

That’s over 100 people.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Most of you are extremely rude when you have no reason to be. …… I just like to talk to people who have differing opinions than me with out resulting to name calling and other rude responses.

I don’t even see much to disagree with on this thread. Geeze. Chill.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:31 PM

And one thing I’d say about the hero in this story is he is the same type of you you all here would categorize as an obama voter.

So is it rude to be so prejudicial..? I felt it was rude.

Again nobody said anything about the hero’s affiliation in a negative light until you made your comment…way to lump people together…hmmm that does fall in line with today’s progressive thought ….oh wait …you’re allowed…I got it.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:45 PM

I also believe assisted suicide should be ok with consent

see, I’m consistent

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Except she cannot use a gun. So much for choice.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Fœtus or foetus is the British, Irish and Commonwealth spelling, which has been in use since at least 1594.

That is over 100 years ago.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM

My daughter and I have read enough books by British authors to think that colour, honour, etc., are normal and look far better than the plain American spelling.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

nobody spells it like that

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

You can hear the comments? How do you do that, is there a widget or something?

Bishop on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

My daughter and I have read enough books by British authors to think that colour, honour, etc., are normal and look far better than the plain American spelling.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

but they don’t sound the way they are spelled

foetus sounds like it would be pronounced fohtus

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:48 PM

My daughter and I have read enough books by British authors to think that colour, honour, etc., are normal and look far better than the plain American spelling.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Uh-oh. Now you’ve stepped in it.

Gird your loins for blow-back from nonpartisan.

:)

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:49 PM

The ENTIRE United Kingdom and most of the Commonwealth spells it that way. It is the way that I learned how to spell the word. If I had spelled foetus as ‘fetus’ on a spelling test as a young child, I would have gotten it incorrect.

It has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with ‘trying to sound intellectual.’

You really should get a refund from whatever schools you attended.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

ok fine

not to belabour (see what I did there)but hotair is an american site, so why not just use the more common spelling rather than the british version?

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Why the fu€k do you care?
Go back to digging around in your shorts and sniffing your fingers.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 9:49 PM

This guy deserves the exact same punishment as Mikey Rourke’s character dished out in Sin City.

Bring in the dogs.

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 9:50 PM

If you haven’t read the facts of the Kennedy v Louisiana case, you should. It involved a 8 year-old girl, who was so brutally raped by her step-father that she required extensive surgeries. The injuries were horrific.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

No, you shouldn’t. I enjoy reading the history of the Ancient World, but the brutality gets a big much. It makes you feel dirty and afraid. I just skip the torture, and feel better about the world.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 9:51 PM

My daughter and I have read enough books by British authors to think that colour, honour, etc., are normal and look far better than the plain American spelling.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Prepare for questions about your patriotism.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:48 PM

For crying out loud. English phonics are a bit more complicated than that.

For example:

though (like o in go)

through (like oo in too)

cough (like off in offer)

rough (like uff in suffer)

plough (like ow in flower)

ought (like aw in saw)

borough (like a in above)

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Me too. I like centre better than center. The spell checker I use for typesetting books uses the English dictionary. So I spell color as colour.

Charles Darwin spelled it as foetus. So did Wallace, Linnaeus and many others considered the founders of modern biology.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM

I come back and it’s like a paranha tank in here.
Can we all agree we need to really examine what we are allowing to come in the country?
This trash was from Puerto Ricio.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 9:28 PM

Am I correct in inferring that you believe all people from Puerto Rico are trash?

BTW, my mother’s from Puerto Rico.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:54 PM

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:49 PM

:) I taught my kids to read. I don’t have my phonics cards with me or I’d count them and tell you how many different sounds there are.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:54 PM

foetus sounds like it would be pronounced fohtus

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:48 PM

You’re not from this country. I think Obama called you out on twitter this week. Laughable. You’re tons of fun.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Prepare for questions about your patriotism.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM

:) Then I’ll start rolling out my ancestor who fought in ’76.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM

I’m partial to centre. It looks lovely.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:56 PM

plaid
said
enough
know
laugh
busy
friend
parfait
aisle
would
island
lieutenant
move
shoe
Phoenix

Watch this: nonpartisan’s tiny little head will explode.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM

Just gotta know. Do you say chesterfield, couch or sofa?
Soda, pop or soft drinks?

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 9:57 PM

I come back and it’s like a paranha tank in here.
Can we all agree we need to really examine what we are allowing to come in the country?
This trash was from Puerto Ricio.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 9:28 PM

Am I correct in inferring that you believe all people from Puerto Rico are trash?

BTW, my mother’s from Puerto Rico.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Not at all, Granny.i have many PR friends, but they don’t keep women tied up, rape them, and kick them into miscarriage.
They just eat funny food. :)

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 PM

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Like you, I also use the British spelling of many words based in large part on the vast amount of reading I did as a youngster.

To me, there is something that appears a bit more “elegant and proper” when the British spellings are used.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 PM

but they don’t sound the way they are spelled
 
foetus sounds like it would be pronounced fohtus
 
nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:48 PM

 
Yeah, like phoebe.
 
(Love your work.)

rogerb on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:52 PM

In hindsight, common sense seems to dictate that someone would have noticed something, but then again remember John Wayne Gacy? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy)

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:10 PM

GrannyDee:

Yup,in hindsight.Also heard that there were no records
of people calling in,saying there was something wrong
going on,at that house!
=======================

Cleveland officials: No records of complaints about house where 3 kidnapped women were kept
Washington Post‎ – 2 days ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-three-rescued-cleveland-women-6-year-old-are-in-good-health/2013/05/07/dd65ea5e-b719-11e2-aa9e-a02b765ff0ea_story.html

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:01 PM

foetus sounds like it would be pronounced fohtus

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:48 PM

No, foetus sounds like it would be pronounced foetus .

Just too funny.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 10:02 PM

No, you shouldn’t. I enjoy reading the history of the Ancient World, but the brutality gets a big much. It makes you feel dirty and afraid. I just skip the torture, and feel better about the world.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 9:51 PM

I don’t encourage people to read the opinion for prurient reasons. On the contrary, if you read the case, you will see just how horribly you can treat a child and not be subjected to the death penalty.

The facts of the case show that, even in such extreme cases, the death penalty may not be imposed. It is the absolute worst of the worse in child rape and, yet, even it was insufficient to get a carve-out from Coker.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 10:02 PM

rogerb on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 PM

LOL Two thumbs up.

BeachBum on May 9, 2013 at 10:02 PM

There’s an I Love Lucy episode in which she wants Ricky to be able to speak English without a Spanish accent, and he’s stuck trying to read a book containing all those -ough words.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 10:02 PM

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 PM

Yes.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 10:03 PM

To me, there is something that appears a bit more “elegant and proper” when the British spellings are used.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:58 PM

Yes. I like the way they say schedule and vitamins.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 10:03 PM

My daughter and I have read enough books by British authors to think that colour, honour, etc., are normal and look far better than the plain American spelling.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

INC:

And remember,

its,

Lieutenant…USA

British Army and Royal Marines
Lieutenant (Lt) (pronounced Lef-tenant)

ZED….Canada

Zee…USA!

And,

Democrat Jackass,is still,either way,…..Democrat Jackass!!!!

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Just gotta know. Do you say chesterfield, couch or sofa?
Soda, pop or soft drinks?

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Sofa for most. Chesterfield or sofa for leathers. Pop, but usually ‘Coke.’ I do find that I say soft drinks more often having been here so long. Soda is what you use to destroy a good Scotch. lol

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Democrat Jackass,is still,either way,…..Democrat Jackass!!!!

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Language barriers fade away when describing Democrats.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 10:10 PM

, and feel better about the world.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 9:51 PM

Ignore it . Ignore the reality of abortion and other evils….its all about you.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 10:11 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Don’t forget Aluminum. Not sure how the British get the pronunciation aluminium out of that. Different spelling?

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Wow, anybody watching Greta?
This family needs to apply for Mensa NOW!

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Barack Obama said at a news conference in Chicago(in regards to Kennedy V Louisiana):
“ I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances for the most egregious of crimes…I think that the rape of a small child, six or eight years old, is a heinous crime and if a state makes a decision that under narrow, limited, well-defined circumstances the death penalty is at least potentially applicable, that that does not violate our Constitution.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Don’t forget Aluminum. Not sure how the British get the pronunciation aluminium out of that. Different spelling?

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Don’t know how it is spelled, but after hearing the pronunciation on a 1940s era British movie:

“al-you-min-eee-yum”

I just can’t get it out of my head, so that’s how I say it now. Way cool, Brits.

tru2tx on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

The facts of the case show that, even in such extreme cases, the death penalty may not be imposed. It is the absolute worst of the worse in child rape and, yet, even it was insufficient to get a carve-out from Coker.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 10:02 PM

I agree with your objective. I think the death penalty for people guilty of torture (actual torture, not calling a feminist fat or waterboarding) is even more desirable than the death penalty for murderers.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

It saddened me that the authorities never took Knight’s disappearance seriously. Now, learning of the torture and multiple forced miscarriages, I hope she is under the care of someone other than social workers and government provided (committee controlled) shrinks. Good luck, Michelle, and God bless.

tuffy on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

death is too gentle for these hideous beasts- i want them to have a long life, full of torture… i think a cruel and unusual crime deserves a cruel and unusual punishment =)

speaking of death, it’s sooo interesting how fetuses, aka useless lumps of cells, aka potential people, aka meat you throw into a crock-pot, are suddenly elevated to the level of “person” now. when did that happen?

Sachiko on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

What pisses me off is when I read books so old the s’s look like f’s.

I feel your pain nonP.

I mean seriously, ENGLISH.

wolly4321 on May 9, 2013 at 10:24 PM

The facts of the case show that, even in such extreme cases, the death penalty may not be imposed. It is the absolute worst of the worse in child rape and, yet, even it was insufficient to get a carve-out from Coker.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 10:02 PM

I agree with your objective. I think the death penalty for people guilty of torture (actual torture, not calling a feminist fat or waterboarding) is even more desirable than the death penalty for murderers.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

But, fetuses in the womb are on their own, right? i mean, if the mom decides to dispose of them, right?

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 10:25 PM

But, fetuses in the womb are on their own, right? i mean, if the mom decides to dispose of them, right?

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 10:25 PM

You really want to argue abortion now? I prefer to do it earlier in the day.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Fœtus or foetus is the British, Irish and Commonwealth spelling, which has been in use since at least 1594.

That is over 100 years ago.

SparkPlug on May 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM

My daughter and I have read enough books by British authors to think that colour, honour, etc., are normal and look far better than the plain American spelling.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 9:47 PM

We see those from our Canadian posters too, mostly trolls except for a couple good ones like canopfor.

slickwillie2001 on May 9, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Soda is what you use to destroy a good Scotch. lol

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Scotch, now there’s a fresh idea! ;)

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 10:29 PM

tru2tx on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

I say it that way too, although most Canadians just say screw it and call it what it is…tinfoil.

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM

ok fine

not to belabour (see what I did there)but hotair is an american site, so why not just use the more common spelling rather than the british version?

nonpartisan

Says the guy who can’t be bothered with things like basic grammar.

xblade on May 9, 2013 at 10:32 PM

But, fetuses in the womb are on their own, right? i mean, if the mom decides to dispose of them, right?

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 10:25 PM

You really want to argue abortion now? I prefer to do it earlier in the day.

thuja on May 9, 2013 at 10:28 PM

The kidnapper might get the death penalty for kicking these girls into several miscarriages, you know, what the post is about, but I found it interesting that someone moved your rock for a comment.
We all know you’re wrong and apparently, if Gosnell had kicked his patients, instead of snipping necks, it would be the popular flavor of the week to send him to the cair,

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 10:32 PM

It saddened me that the authorities never took Knight’s disappearance seriously. Now, learning of the torture and multiple forced miscarriages, I hope she is under the care of someone other than social workers and government provided (committee controlled) shrinks. Good luck, Michelle, and God bless.

tuffy on May 9, 2013 at 10:22 PM

Very, very sad and extremely infuriating. Being in the area and learning of Michelle’s dysfunctional family background regarding her mother, her original mental health disability, the disregard of her disappearance by the Cleveland police and social workers, all combined with the brutality of the torture, rapes, miscarriages and beatings she endured (that have left her with permanent facial disfiguration and hearing loss) you can’t help but grieve especially for her.

For all intent and purposes, it doesn’t appear that Michelle has any strong family ties to fall back upon, who will help her in her long-term recovery.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 10:40 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Don’t forget Aluminum. Not sure how the British get the pronunciation aluminium out of that. Different spelling?

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 10:11 PM

can_con:

Lol,yes,thats the only word,that is botched by the Brits,
I cannot stand the way they say it!:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:57 PM

Democrat Jackass,is still,either way,…..Democrat Jackass!!!!

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Language barriers fade away when describing Democrats.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 10:10 PM

GrannyDee: Amen on that,yup:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:58 PM

Soda is what you use to destroy a good Scotch. lol

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Indubitably so!

OldEnglish on May 9, 2013 at 11:03 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

I had to run out to the grocery store and missed your comment. As I was driving it popped into my head that there were 70 phonograms. It’s funny how things you don’t think you remember surface that way.

I came home and checked: Dr. Samuel Orton identified “70 phonograms, single letters and letter pairs representing the 44 discrete sounds (or phonemes) found in English.” Of course, you don’t have to know all of them to begin reading.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 11:19 PM

This guy should be sentenced to death, period, for the killing of the babies. It wasn’t totally Gosnellian and, in a sense, worse, given the captivity/rape angle.

Then again, a part of me wishes him a life sentence in prison, but only if he’s released into the general population. They will take care of him, and in a way that doctors and needles and sterile conditions will not.

TXUS on May 9, 2013 at 11:32 PM

To all those asking how does those who support abortion view the forced death of a fetus in a murder circumstance I ask you how would you view consental sex with a bf or gf to date rape?

In the case of date rape, the person performing the evil is punished. In the case of abortion, an innocent is punished.

If a woman gives the consent to end her pregnancy under our laws amd her baby is murdered during the commission of a crime then I honestly don’t see How that relates to an legal abortion.

It’s the “her baby” part. Was this a baby in the eyes of pro-choicers?

That is unless your saying that anything else that you legally consent to can be done with out your consent and should still be okay.

I don’t get that arguement.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:01 PM

Your side is the one that says that children under the age of consent for getting a credit card can consent to an abortion.

Lets just say there’s a whole heaping helping of hypocrisy wrapped up in the above comment.

unclesmrgol on May 9, 2013 at 11:37 PM

Notice how the media has focused on the, now adult, women yet hardly a word about the 6-year old daughter of Amanda Berry who also was held against her will in that hell hole. Wasn’t that little girl being held captive (and possibly raped) as well? At the same time, the media goes nuts over the kids killed and injured at Sandy Hook. Such trash the media is, such trash.

TXUS on May 9, 2013 at 11:50 PM

There are 8 ways to pronounce “ough.” I would have to think a bit to remember them all, but back when I was teaching my kids to read I knew them. And five ways to spell the “er” sound, which you can remember with this little mnemonic: her first nurse works early.

God love the English language!

And Castro? I would wish him every bit of fear and pain he caused his victims…and their loved ones. Multiplied by a large number just to send a message, so to speak.

(Thinking, rough, lough, sough…)

Bob's Kid on May 10, 2013 at 12:51 AM

Notice how the media has focused on the, now adult, women yet hardly a word about the 6-year old daughter of Amanda Berry who also was held against her will in that hell hole. Wasn’t that little girl being held captive (and possibly raped) as well? At the same time, the media goes nuts over the kids killed and injured at Sandy Hook. Such trash the media is, such trash.

TXUS on May 9, 2013 at 11:50 PM

Here is a scary thought. What if he gets off for some reason and tries to get custody?

cptacek on May 10, 2013 at 1:22 AM

Notice how the media has focused on the, now adult, women yet hardly a word about the 6-year old daughter of Amanda Berry who also was held against her will in that hell hole.

TXUS on May 9, 2013 at 11:50 PM

Is there, perhaps, some legal restraint on reporting about a child?

Also, you indirectly raise interesting legal points … since the daughter was his daughter, can he actually be accused of kidnapping her? His being (allegedly) a bad person doesn’t remove his parentage and, in any case, whilst there is prima facie evidence that these relationships were involuntary on the part of the women, until he is actually convicted of raping the mother to conception is there any basis for presuming that the child wasn’t legitimately and consensually conceived?

In other words has the child been legally wronged (as oppose to morally or socially wronged)? Can we say that, in law, the child is presently not a “victim” but merely somebody who was present during the commission of alleged offences? That being so the child would legally have a higher expectation of privacy than an accuser or somebody who was, in law, a “victim”.

YiZhangZhe on May 10, 2013 at 7:39 AM

Here is a scary thought. What if he gets off for some reason and tries to get custody?

cptacek on May 10, 2013 at 1:22 AM

Last night, I thought of a scenario in which this guy might walk. (Force of habit, going back to Constitutional Law classes.)

When arrested, he waived his Miranda rights and talked freely. The CW in the media was that he knew he was caught and couldn’t wriggle out of it. OK, so far so good.

But, next the news developed that he was “mentally challenged” in some way. This led to the possibility that he might be determined to be incompetent to stand trial. I find this unlikely, after reading the newspaper column he wrote about Amanda’s “disappearance”. It was not the work of someone with a sub-normal IQ. (Unless he now claims it was “ghost-written”.)

So, fast-forward to his court appearance with a lawyer. What if the lawyer says that he lacks the capacity to understand his Miranda rights, and therefore could not legitimately waive them? And the court agrees?

According to what I was taught, from that point, any evidence developed from his statements, including physical evidence obtained in a warrant search, becomes fruit of the poisonous tree, and cannot be used in court;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

Note that the “would have been discovered anyway during warrant search” exception rarely works. (I’ve seen it attempted, but I have never seen it succeed.)

This could explain why the prosecutor is pursuing the aggravated murder charges. They are separate and distinct from the kidnapping and unlawful detention charges under Ohio law. (2903 ORC and 2929 ORC vs. 2905 ORC.) The idea being that the victim’s testimony and the medical evidence of forcibly induced miscarriage would be enough to obtain a conviction under 2903.01 and 2929.03, irrespective of the separate issue of the 2905 proceeding.

In short, he might conceivably get off on the kidnapping, detention, rape, etc., charges due to the Miranda issue. But he could still be nailed on the purely physical evidence of assault and murder, the development of which required no cooperation from him.

Just a thought.

/Professional opinion, RWM?

cheers

eon

eon on May 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM

Medicaid qualifying pregancy coverage requires “proof from a qualified health professional”.

At a minimum, the standard of proof necessary to give this guy the death penalty is going to be equivalent to that standard.

Good luck with “proving” she was pregnant.

The good news … this guy is going to live out his remaining days as a caged animal … susceptible to being raped each and every day. What goes around comes around.

Just don’t get excited about the idea of the death penalty for this guy. It won’t happen.

Carnac on May 10, 2013 at 8:34 AM

eon on May 10, 2013 at 7:54 AM

There is no place this guy can go or be sent where he won’t face the death penalty.

claudius on May 10, 2013 at 8:35 AM

“beating pregnant captive until she miscarried”

Sounds like we’ve found a replacement for Kathleen Sebelius as Obama’s Abortion Honcho.

MaiDee on May 10, 2013 at 8:40 AM

Allah, this is another one of those posts that makes me wish you’d just write a damn book already.

mrsknightley on May 10, 2013 at 8:56 AM

does ohio not have a false imprisonment law? Seems this guy is due for hundreds or thousands of more charges.

gatorboy on May 10, 2013 at 8:59 AM

So he’s an abortionist too? Huh.

Akzed on May 10, 2013 at 9:28 AM

Nice to see that the national press has gone back to reporting on local crime stories. My local rag featured this story on Page One this morning.

RobertE on May 10, 2013 at 9:31 AM

..Jodi Arias and these three scumbags share the same quad in a SHU, same yard time, no shiv searches, televised 24/7 on a special cable channel..know-what-I-mean?

The War Planner on May 10, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Does Ohio not have a false imprisonment law? Seems this guy is due for hundreds or thousands of more charges.

gatorboy on May 10, 2013 at 8:59 AM

That’s all under 2905 ORC. Kidnapping, unlawful detention, etc.;

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2905

Ohio Revised Code
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES – PROCEDURE

Chapter 2905: KIDNAPPING AND EXTORTION
2905.01 Kidnapping.

(A) No person, by force, threat, or deception, or, in the case of a victim under the age of thirteen or mentally incompetent, by any means, shall remove another from the place where the other person is found or restrain the liberty of the other person, for any of the following purposes:

(1) To hold for ransom, or as a shield or hostage;

(2) To facilitate the commission of any felony or flight thereafter;

(3) To terrorize, or to inflict serious physical harm on the victim or another;

(4) To engage in sexual activity, as defined in section 2907.01 of the Revised Code, with the victim against the victim’s will;

(5) To hinder, impede, or obstruct a function of government, or to force any action or concession on the part of governmental authority;

(6) To hold in a condition of involuntary servitude.

(B) No person, by force, threat, or deception, or, in the case of a victim under the age of thirteen or mentally incompetent, by any means, shall knowingly do any of the following, under circumstances that create a substantial risk of serious physical harm to the victim or, in the case of a minor victim, under circumstances that either create a substantial risk of serious physical harm to the victim or cause physical harm to the victim:

(1) Remove another from the place where the other person is found;

(2) Restrain another of the other person’s liberty.

(C)

(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of kidnapping. Except as otherwise provided in this division or division (C)(2) or (3) of this section, kidnapping is a felony of the first degree. Except as otherwise provided in this division or division (C)(2) or (3) of this section, if an offender who violates division (A)(1) to (5), (B)(1), or (B)(2) of this section releases the victim in a safe place unharmed, kidnapping is a felony of the second degree.

(Emphasis mine.)

Needless to say, he isn’t charged with second degree.

cheers

eon

eon on May 10, 2013 at 10:22 AM

I live in Newark.. about 30 minutes from Columbus, mid state, south of Cleveland..

I don’t know the law on this, I’m not an attorney.

But Murder seems perfectly in line with his actions, wether the baby was inside her or not..

Everyone here wants him to fry, without exception.. lib and conservative..

What drives me crazy, is the difference to some, is wether the mother WANTED to keep the baby..

So it’s capital murder and infanticide, if the mother is forced..

but a simple medical procedure if the mother consents?

really?

So live is defined as the personal “desire” of another person?

What’s his defense going to be? PPH says it’s not human, so meh… Charge me with battery..

In a not so different time, there was a public lynching in my town.. 1903.. a white man, a fire bug, set a fire which destroyed the courthouse and half the homes and businesses in the surrounding blacks.. dozens died, burned, suffocated.. and after he was caught, and confessed..

a crowd went to the city jail, calmly took the keys of the desk, as the very few officers stood by, not interfering and walked him to a square iron gaslight post, threw up a rope and strangle hanged him as they pulled him into the air.

The very lamppost still exits, as does the effigy of him, carved stone flames around his ears,. on a corner stone of an old bank building.. A kind of gargoyle..

and we live close by..

was it vigilante justice, street justice?.. murder by mob?.. or the retribution of a community so horribly affected by a murderers act of depravity..

I try and explain to my kids about that stone face..

But I let them work it through..

was it justice?

or a crime as bad as his?

you decide.. when they have a decision we’ll talk about it again, and I’ll not try to change their minds, just ask them to work it out so I can see their reasoning.

Life.. is it only important in how it affects others?

or, is it by definition, it’s own justification.

I live, so I have the right to life..

barring the judgement of the law, that you have forfeited that by harming others, and destroying their right to live..

I can accept a death penalty free America, if the exchange, is all life is sacred, not just the ones who are sacrifi9cied on the altar of personal convince.

mark81150 on May 10, 2013 at 10:26 AM

please excuse the typos.. I have trouble seeing the text sometimes.. Need new glasses.

mark81150 on May 10, 2013 at 10:29 AM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Don’t forget Aluminum. Not sure how the British get the pronunciation aluminium out of that. Different spelling?

can_con on May 9, 2013 at 10:11 PM

can_con:

Lol,yes,thats the only word,that is botched by the Brits,
I cannot stand the way they say it!:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 10:57 PM

The only solution is a nukular (Southernism for nuclear) strike from orbit.
It’s the only way to be sure.

BKennedy on May 10, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Last night on CNN, Alan Dershowitz proclaimed that charging Castro with the murders of the unborn would be a BIG MISTAKE.

Why???

Because if he’s charged, the debate then becomes about abortion, as if Castro’s crimes all boil down to nothing more than a debate.

That’s right. Castro, according to the highly regarded lawyer, should skate for killing the unborn, even though it is a crime in Ohio, simply because it might turn into a debate.

WOW.

LetsBfrank on May 10, 2013 at 10:54 AM

I’ll wager $100 that someone on a college campus in a very blue state will argue that Castro only removed his DNA from the gene pool and thus deserves a Darwin award not capitol punishment.

meci on May 9, 2013 at 9:30 PM

DNA tests released this morning confirm that Castro is the father of Amanda’s 6 year old daughter.

Myron Falwell on May 10, 2013 at 11:24 AM

Wait a minute… I thought an unborne infant was “just a mass of cells” with no human rights. At least that is what I have been hearing since 1973.

WTF with the double standard? If they prosecute his POS for murder of an unborne then Gosnell should be put to death also…

That’s how I see it!

Kuffar on May 10, 2013 at 11:27 AM

I wonder we don’t know what party affiliation this fella belongs to yet?

hmmmmm

Wagthatdog on May 10, 2013 at 11:31 AM

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