Cleveland kidnapper may face death penalty — for beating pregnant captive until she miscarried

posted at 8:01 pm on May 9, 2013 by Allahpundit

“Wait,” you say, “can’t he get the death penalty for kidnapping, imprisoning, and raping three girls over and over again for 10 years?” Why, no. Our Supreme Court, in its wisdom, decided a few years ago that it would amount to cruel and unusual punishment to give the needle to a degenerate like this “merely” for raping children repeatedly. As a matter of constitutional law, due to society’s “evolving standards of decency,” only a crime that results in death can carry a capital sentence. Which is interesting, because I’d bet if you polled Americans today, you’d get upwards of 60-70 percent (and maybe more) to say that it’d be quite decent indeed to kill this guy, and not in a painless way like lethal injection either. Like I said when that SCOTUS decision was handed down, the irony of barring the death penalty for child-rapists due to “evolving standards” is that American society’s become much more sensitive to the psychological damage done to the victims of sexual crimes, especially when the victim is a child. The public’s “evolved” towards a fuller appreciation of the toll taken on the innocent and may, understandably, desire a penalty commensurate with that toll. But it can’t have it, even in a case like this where there’s zero doubt as to guilt or innocence.

So why is the prosecutor in Cleveland talking about death anyway? Because: Under Ohio law, killing a woman’s child when it’s in the womb — if it’s against her wishes — constitutes aggravated murder. Which, apparently, is what Castro did. Five separate times:

The police report described a nightmare scenario in which Ms. Berry, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight were taken to Mr. Castro’s home and chained in the basement. Although the chains were later removed and they moved upstairs, they were all forced to have sex with Mr. Castro, the women told police.

Ms. Knight told police she had become pregnant five times, with Mr. Castro starving her and punching her in the stomach each time until she miscarried, according to the report.

Ms. Berry told police she had given birth to her daughter, Jocelyn, in a plastic pool. Ms. Knight described delivering the baby and reviving her at one point with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, under threat of death from Mr. Castro if she let the child die, according to the report.

Ms. DeJesus also said she had sex with Mr. Castro, but told police she didn’t think she had become pregnant.

One of the victims’ cousins told the NYT that he would serve them cake on the anniversary of their kidnappings to celebrate their abductions. That’s what we’re dealing with here.

Ace was all over the death-penalty angle the other day, incidentally. Here’s the relevant statute in Ohio:

2903.01 Aggravated murder.

(A) No person shall purposely, and with prior calculation and design, cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another’s pregnancy…

(F) Whoever violates this section is guilty of aggravated murder, and shall be punished as provided in section 2929.02 of the Revised Code.

Section 2929.02 puts death on the table for aggravated murder. “But wait,” you say, “doesn’t charging this piece of garbage with murder necessarily mean that the fetuses he killed in the womb are persons”? Why, yes. Courts and legislatures have been wrestling with that contradiction, where a fetus is something less than a person for purposes of lawful abortion but a full person for purposes of “unlawful termination,” since Roe was decided. There is a way to square the circle conceptually, but abortion warriors don’t like it: Instead of trying to redefine a fetus as something other than a “life,” they could acknowledge that it’s a life and then treat lawful abortion as a form of justifiable homicide. (That’s what Charles Murray does, for instance.) A “justifiable homicide” rationale for abortion essentially puts mom and doctor in the role of state-sanctioned executioners: Just as it’s okay for the state’s lethal-injection technician to execute a man on death row but not okay for you or me to kill him, it’s okay for a pregnant woman to authorize the killing but not for her degenerate kidnapper-rapist to punch her in the stomach until she miscarries. Having the word “homicide” attached to one of your most cherished policy priorities isn’t good messaging, though, and needing to explain repeatedly why killing a baby is “justifiable” is an unhappy prospect. So instead pro-choicers typically resort to the Orwellian rationale that a fetus in the womb isn’t a “person” and merely has the “potential” for life — unless and until the fetus is killed against the mother’s will, in which case it’s murder one and the prosecutor is empowered to apply the needle.

We need two separate poll questions asked of the public. Hopefully Rasmussen or Gallup or Pew or someone is game. Question one: Does Ariel Castro deserve death? Question two: Does Ariel Castro deserve death for forcing one of his captives to miscarry? I wonder if the number who say yes to question one will be greater than the number who say yes to question two, as illogical as that may be.


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So why is the prosecutor in Cleveland talking about death anyway? Because: Under Ohio law, killing a woman’s child when it’s in the womb — if it’s against her wishes — constitutes aggravated murder. Which, apparently, is what Castro did. Five separate times:

But, if she orders her child murdered, it’s just a quick procedure.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Particularly heinous squirrel.
So who gave the “stand down” order in Benghazi?

indypat on May 9, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Hand him over to his victims’ brothers and fathers. For. Just. Five. Minutes.

Rational Thought on May 9, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Unbelievable. So the value of a baby’s life is determined on whether the mom wants it or not….God have mercy.

jawkneemusic on May 9, 2013 at 8:09 PM

But, if she orders her child murdered, it’s just a quick procedure.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Snip, snip..
or taken in chunks..

But the media won’t talk about that…

Electrongod on May 9, 2013 at 8:10 PM

One of the many problems with raping children is the massive injuries they sustain from being penetrated and from the head injuries they sustained while being raped. They usually die. The little girl in the USSC case would have died if she had not had emergency surgery. It was an aggravated rape in every sense of the word and definitely earned the monster a death sentence.

Blake on May 9, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Sick is this law of abortion
Sick is the determination
Sick is this abomination
Against this human nation.

Scrumpy on May 9, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Having the word “homicide” attached to one of your most cherished policy priorities isn’t good messaging…

Eh. They usually put the cause of death as homicide on death certificates in executions which gives the death row groupies a boner.

Blake on May 9, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Ahem,

Back-Yard

Kneel’d Down

Le Double-Tapped!
(sarc,but not)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:14 PM

i have studiously tried to ignore this story…only reading the twitter level stuff. Even at that level the least we can do is the death penalty. The horrible thing is that this will last forever in the press. Low info people luv this stuff…and the press would love to talk about this rather than immigration, or anything else.

and the appeals..i mean this guy will live at least another 20 years, even if given the death penalty. I’d rather something quicker personaly

r keller on May 9, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Unbelievable. So the value of a baby’s life is determined on whether the mom wants it or not….God have mercy.

jawkneemusic on May 9, 2013 at 8:09 PM

No doubt….so who is selfish again?

There truly are monsters. Like the hero in this story said…get involved.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:15 PM

I say we just sic Andrea Tantaros from the Five on him.

Barred on May 9, 2013 at 8:17 PM

So much legal mumbo jumbo here it’s making my head hurt. Either way, just hang him and do the world a favor.

SoulGlo on May 9, 2013 at 8:17 PM

There are some crimes that are heinous enough to invoke the death penalty. Even if an unborn child had not died, this kidnapping and ongoing horrific abuse should qualify.

INC on May 9, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Registered Democrat.

Akzed on May 9, 2013 at 8:18 PM

The news said both he and that Jody women are on suicide watch…

Why “watch” just give them what they need to accomplish it…

It would save us all and especially those poor girls time and money. I think at this point these criminals have had their 15 min….

Tilly on May 9, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Fantastic analysis Allah, considering the gruesome nature and content.

Odie1941 on May 9, 2013 at 8:18 PM

He can share a gas chamber with Kermit Gosnell.

Alberta_Patriot on May 9, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Registered Democrat.

Akzed on May 9, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Sorry that talk really does not belong here but if we are to go there…what party do you think the hero belongs to?

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:19 PM

@nnbrk tweeted:
nnbrk
Law enforcement source: #Cleveland kidnapping suspect Ariel Castro confessed to some of his actions. http://t.co/1Bxohw11fo

1 hour ago from twitter.com by editor

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/missing-cleveland-teens-found-2013

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:22 PM

I have often asked as an ethical hypothetical – how do murder charges for violently causing a miscarriage mesh with pro-abortion debate…

mjbrooks3 on May 9, 2013 at 8:22 PM

what party do you think the hero belongs to?

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:19 PM

You mean the guy that was eating his McDonald’s food group?

:)

Electrongod on May 9, 2013 at 8:23 PM

what party do you think the hero belongs to?

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:19 PM

He’s a registered Democrat.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Particularly heinous squirrel.
So who gave the “stand down” order in Benghazi?

indypat on May 9, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Sorry but no. That’s not a squirrel. There is more than one important issue or story going on in the world and it’s not just a distraction to realize and talk about that.

I love how this story bring to light the contradiction in how the law treats babies when they are wanted vs when the mother decides she doesn’t want it. It’s unbelievably hypocritical and dysfunctional and the brighter the light shown on it the better.

MikeknaJ on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

I’d bet if you polled Americans today, you’d get upwards of 60-70 percent (and maybe more) to say that it’d be quite decent indeed to kill this guy, and not in a painless way like lethal injection either.

A natural inclination is to torture him to death slowly. AP, that religious beliefs would act as a counterweight to this inclination, for those who have religious beliefs, makes me wonder about the source of the morality of atheists, or rather, of those who have no involvement with any religious tradition at all.

It must be a badge of honor to anyone in prison who succeeds in hurting this guy. I suspect he’ll commit suicide, sooner rather than later. Intrade went bust, too bad, or else we could lay bets on it.

Paul-Cincy on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

I would prefer that he be flayed and hung out to dry – but that’s just me.

OldEnglish on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

************* WTH-WTF ****************!!??

Pedro Castro and Onil Castro have been released – Cleveland police

7 hours ago from clevelandpolice.wordpress.com by editor
============================================================

May 9 2013
Update – 12 p.m. May 9, 2013

Pedro Castro and Onil Castro have been released. Ariel Castro is currently in the Cleveland Central Processing Unit. Ariel is bound over to the county and is anticipated to be in their custody later today.
——–

http://clevelandpolice.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/update-12-p-m-may-9-2013/

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

I say we just sic Andrea Tantaros from the Five on him.

Barred on May 9, 2013 at 8:17 PM

You saw that too, eh? She could be a professional switch-puller. =P

On a more serious note, it’s good that Ohio allows for the prosecution to seek the death penalty here. I just wish we could have it so that we’re consistent in our application of ethics rather than allowing the humanity of the unborn to be defined away by arbitrary whim.

But absolutely, roast this b*stard.

Stoic Patriot on May 9, 2013 at 8:25 PM

I’m not a lawyer, but, I believe the logic with not applying the death penalty for rape cases is the belief that it makes it more likely that the rapist will leave his victim alive.

If it’s a death penalty crime either way, you’re better off not leaving witnesses.

If the punishment for the murder is much harsher than the punishment for the rape, there’s a reason to not kill your victim.

That said, people usually claim that the death penalty does not deter crime, so, it seems odd to argue that the death penalty could spur more crime. Either they pay attention to it and modify their behavior based on it or not, right?

JadeNYU on May 9, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Having had some significant level of experience in the field of criminal law in the past, I always wondered what would happen when the movement to recognize criminal responsibility for death of the unborn (in vehicular homicide cases, for example, among others) and the left’s movement to allow abortion later and later in the term might collide.

“Ariel Castro… could also face aggravated murder charges for allegedly terminating the pregnancies of his captives. Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty said Thursday that… his office intends to seek charges… for… “each act of aggravated murder he committed by terminating pregnancies.”

Let’s see where this ends up.

And no, it is not as simple as writing a law saying someone can consent to murder. Even suicide is illegal (assuming you survive — not very many successful suicides are prosecuted). This is a much larger bucket of worms than pro-abortion lobby would suggest.

What is a woman stabs herself repeatedly to kill her unborn child at 8 months of her term? Someone else who stabs her and kills that child can be liable for murder (of both mother and child if the mother dies). Simple case?

I get all the “qualifiers” and “justifications” being tossed about but the fact remains, once a fetus at some stage is recognized as a “life” for purposes of criminal statutes, the conflict is obvious. Can a mother strangle her child as soon as it’s delivered, with impunity? No.

A few tick tocks of the clock back in time, though, and she can now kill it herself, or consent for someone else to kill it? But, if she doesn’t expressly consent, it’s murder? Not only that but, in Ohio, “aggravated” murder.

This conundrum has been coming for a long time, like two trains headed in opposite directions on the same track. We’ll see how it turns out.

IndieDogg on May 9, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Pardon my non-PC nature. This guy should be hung by his balls, IN PUBLIC!

GarandFan on May 9, 2013 at 8:25 PM

General prison population. He’ll be taken care of.

BTW, we just recently executed a rapist here in Ohio who raped a six month old (yes, month not years) His defense was that he intended the rape but only accidentally killed her.

rbj on May 9, 2013 at 8:26 PM

only a crime that results in death can carry a capital sentence.

A minor quibble: doesn’t the death penalty still exist for treason?

Captain Kirock on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I would prefer that he be flayed and hung out to dry – but that’s just me.

OldEnglish on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

OldEnglish:OOh,your in my mind,and while awaiting sentencing,

held on a former British Penal Colony,
like in the movie,

Papillon!!!!!:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

what party do you think the hero belongs to?

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:19 PM

You mean the guy that was eating his McDonald’s food group?

:)

Electrongod on May 9, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Yeh that guy.

The same one that said:

About five minutes after the police got here. See that girl Amanda, told the police “I ain’t the only one. There’s some more girls up in that house.” So they go up in there, 30, 40, deep. And when they came out, it was just astonishing. ‘Cause I thought they would come up with nothing. Like I said my neighbor, you got to have some pretty big testicles to pull this off, bro. Because we see this dude every day. I mean every day.

He’s a registered Democrat.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 8:23 PM

I could’ve bet my house on it.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Knew this, the minute the story broke!!


Ohio prosecutor: Suspect in Cleveland kidnapping case ‘operated a torture chamber in the heart of our city’ – from broadcast

4 hours ago from http://www.nbcnews.com by editor
==============================================

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/missing-cleveland-teens-found-2013

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:30 PM

Kermitt Gosnell, please pick up the white, blood-stained courtesy phone. You have a request for a referral.

oldroy on May 9, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Wait, NOW killing a baby is wrong?

Whats changed?

TX-96 on May 9, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Interesting info on some states with death penalties involving rape

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-penalty-offenses-other-murder

CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:33 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Sorry, canopfor, that was them damn Frenchies who owned devil’s Island. :)

OldEnglish on May 9, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Wait, NOW killing a baby is wrong?

Whats changed?

TX-96 on May 9, 2013 at 8:32 PM

The mother didn’t have any say in it..
Only the father..

But…

If we reverse the mother/father roles..
perfectly legit..

Electrongod on May 9, 2013 at 8:37 PM

held on a former British Penal Colony,
like in the movie,

Papillon!!!!!:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Ile du Diable was French. The Brits had a penal colony in Tasmania.

katy the mean old lady on May 9, 2013 at 8:39 PM

The Castro brothers didn’t come to the US until they were teenagers. Who the hell let them in?

VorDaj on May 9, 2013 at 8:43 PM

I love how this story bring to light the contradiction in how the law treats babies when they are wanted vs when the mother decides she doesn’t want it. It’s unbelievably hypocritical and dysfunctional and the brighter the light shown on it the better.

MikeknaJ on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

I’ve often brought up this point (the woman’s intent is determinative) with pro-aborts with examples like…

A. If a woman ‘owns’ her womb, does she also ‘own’ her other organs? If so,why can’t she legally sell them in the United States?

B. If a mum’s intent controls and she owns the ‘foetus,’ does she also own the ‘post-birth foetus’? If so, can she sell it? Wouldn’t that make the ‘post-birth foetus’ akin to Dred Scott, i.e., property/a slave?

C. Two women are in a car in Florida. Both are 5 months pregnant. The driver, who plans to keep her baby, is driving her friend to an abortion clinic to have an abortion. A drunk, Comrade Alan Grayson runs a red light and hits the car in which both women are riding. Both women survive.

Both foetuses are aborted naturally.

Fla. Stat. Ann. § 316.193 defines DUI manslaughter to include the death of an unborn, quick child.

Should Comrade Alan Grayson be charged with one or two counts of DUI manslaughter?

Remember, one woman was on her way to kill her ‘collection of cells.’

D. On 11 May 2010, Danny Ray Poplin, Jr, was sentenced to 50-years-to-life for a murder conviction. The victim was the approximately 6 month-old foetus carried by his girlfriend. He was not convicted of foetal homicide, which is a different crime. He was convicted of first-degree murder.

Unlike the case of Scott Peterson, who was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder for killing both his wife, Lacy, and his nearly full-term, unborn son, Connor, Mr Poplin’s girlfriend did not die. Indeed, she testified during the trial and was present in the courtroom for sentencing.

Mr Poplin will begin serving his sentence for first-degree murder once he completes serving the 12 years that were levied upon him for injury and assault with a deadly weapon (a 13-inch butcher knife that he twice plunged into his pregnant girlfriend’s belly to terminate a life he mistakenly thought was born of an affair).

This is an actual case and it did not occur in the Bible Belt; rather, it took place in California.

California Penal Code 187.

(a) Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought.

(b) This section shall not apply to any person, who commits an act that results in the death of a fetus, if any of the following apply:

1. The act complied with the Therapeutic Abortion Act, Article 2 (commencing with Section 123400) of Chapter 2 of Part 2 of Division 106 of the Health and Safety Code.

2. The act was committed by a holder of a physician’s and surgeon’s certificate, as defined in the Business and Professions Code, in a case where, to a medical certainty, the result of childbirth would be death of the mother of the fetus or where her death from childbirth, although not medically certain, would be substantially certain or more likely than not.

3. The act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the mother of the fetus.

(c) Subdivision (b) shall not be construed to prohibit the prosecution of any person under any other provision of law.

Mr Poplin was determined to be the father of the unborn child.

Why does only the mum get to decide whether the foetus is a capable of being murdered in the first degree or aborted with determination aforethought? Is such a law a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment? If, as many courts have ruled, the ‘state has a compelling interest in encouraging and fostering procreation of the human species,’ why is Mr Poplin convicted of first degree murder for doing what his girlfriend could do at any time? Does some chemical or biological change occur within the foetus prior to abortion that differentiates it from a foetus of the same age killed via a 13 inch butcher knife or in an automobile accident?

E. On 6 June 2005, 19-year-old Gerardo Flores was convicted in Lufkin, Texas, of two counts of murder for stomping on the stomach of his girlfriend, causing her to miscarry twins.

Erica Basoria was 16-years-old at the time, and asked Flores to help her abort.

She was not charged due to her legal right to abort.

Flores received an automatic life sentence.

Wasn’t he just performing an abortion at the request of a woman, who had a legal right to such?

Why should the government sentenced the man to life and not charge the woman with anything for what was, as you called earlier, a ‘private matter’?
.
.
‘Crickets’ is always the answer.

I have no doubt that this case may very well make its way to the Supreme Court. The heinous nature of his crimes will leave the jury probably seeking a way to impose the death penalty, but more for what he did to the women than to the unborn children. This would present a novel issue for the Court:

Can the death penalty be imposed on a defendant for the death of a ‘foetus’ where the mother survives?

Frankly, I don’t know that the Court would uphold it.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 8:44 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Sorry, canopfor, that was them damn Frenchies who owned devil’s Island. :)

OldEnglish on May 9, 2013 at 8:35 PM

OldEnglish:

D*mmitt,BeSmirched the Brits,oops,thanks for the correction.

And,it go’s to show that the French were busy,screwing
up the world—–:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:46 PM

************* WTH-WTF ****************!!??

Pedro Castro and Onil Castro have been released – Cleveland police

7 hours ago from clevelandpolice.wordpress.com by editor
============================================================

May 9 2013
Update – 12 p.m. May 9, 2013

Pedro Castro and Onil Castro have been released. Ariel Castro is currently in the Cleveland Central Processing Unit. Ariel is bound over to the county and is anticipated to be in their custody later today.
——–

http://clevelandpolice.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/update-12-p-m-may-9-2013/

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

According to local news reports (I’m in the area) the young ladies, themselves, told investigators that only Ariel Castro was involved in their abductions, torture, etc. And based on other evidence that is being leaked to the media, no one…including close family members of Ariel Castro…had any idea whatsoever about what was taking place in his home.

Based on the eye witness testimony, what choice did the prosecutor have but not to file charges against the two brothers?

Having said that, however, the DA has reserved the right to file charges down the road if it is discovered that the brothers had knowledge or assisted Castro in a cover up. The new prosecutor, Tim McGinty, is a former county judge and one tough SOB. If there’s even a whiff of the brothers’ participation, he’ll drop the hammer on them.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 8:46 PM

only a crime that results in death can carry a capital sentence.

A minor quibble: doesn’t the death penalty still exist for treason?

Captain Kirock on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Actually in California you can also get the death penalty for perjury in a capital murder case.

In Nevada, you can get the death penalty for inciting a rebellion against the state IIRC.

Raquel Pinkbullet on May 9, 2013 at 8:47 PM

I didn’t bother to read the comments but I always thought the reason for the death penalty only being applied in cases of death was because that may be the only thing to stop a criminal from going as far as murder. I hate a rapist or a child molester as much as the next guy but if they knew they were going to get the death penalty for that rape or what ever other horrible crime what is there to stop them from just murdering the person anyway?

What those girls went thru was horrible and I don’t even want to imagine it but atleast they still have their lives no matter how fractured.

If a rapist knew he would get the same punishment for rape as murder then I’d bet a lot more rapes would lead to murder.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:47 PM

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Ile du Diable was French. The Brits had a penal colony in Tasmania.

katy the mean old lady on May 9, 2013 at 8:39 PM

katy the mean old lady:

So I’ve been told,and after making tea,I plan to Flogg
myself done good,haha:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:47 PM

A minor quibble: doesn’t the death penalty still exist for treason?

Captain Kirock on May 9, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Yes. It is one penalty available…

18 USC § 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 8:48 PM

I think the death penalty should be applied in case of child molestation when the victim is under 14 or a second offense. And in case of torture/mayhem. (Actually CA had the death penalty for aggravated mayhem), also for rape, and for …adultery.. lol.

Raquel Pinkbullet on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

this guy needs to be chained and raped, daily, for life. except he might enjoy it. so he will be raped with a wooden stake, with splinters, and salt.

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

And one thing I’d say about the hero in this story is he is the same type of you you all here would categorize as an obama voter. Dumb, poor, looking for handouts, lazy etc. But when asked about a reward he said all money should go to the victims. Remember that next time you guys try to lump all of those who aren’t reuplican together as poor, welfare reciving dummies who want a handout.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Under ohio law, the killing of the fetus is aggravated murder. The problem will be the special circ that is necessary to elevate it to a capital case. Unfortunately, Ohio has not made false imprisonment a special circumstance.

Blake on May 9, 2013 at 8:52 PM

http://clevelandpolice.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/update-12-p-m-may-9-2013/

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Based on the eye witness testimony, what choice did the prosecutor have but not to file charges against the two brothers?

Having said that, however, the DA has reserved the right to file charges down the road if it is discovered that the brothers had knowledge or assisted Castro in a cover up. The new prosecutor, Tim McGinty, is a former county judge and one tough SOB. If there’s even a whiff of the brothers’ participation, he’ll drop the hammer on them.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 8:46 PM

GrannyDee:

Well I was mystified at that,because the brothers,in all those years,just had to know something.

And the law is the law,and I get your points,and just seeing that headline pop up,seems to raise alarm bells,……*sigh*!!:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Sorry. One last thing. Jail house justice on rapist and child molesters in prison is almost worse than death. I hope he suffers everyday he’s locked up. Put him in gen pop. Thatll be worse than the death penatly in my opinion.

Scum.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:52 PM

And one thing I’d say about the hero in this story is he is the same type of you you all here would categorize as an obama voter. Dumb, poor, looking for handouts, lazy etc. But when asked about a reward he said all money should go to the victims. Remember that next time you guys try to lump all of those who aren’t reuplican together as poor, welfare reciving dummies who want a handout.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

So the hero was a democrat? …Hmmm..What exactly did he do that merited hero status anyway?

And no there is no such thing as a heroic “democrat.” That last sentence itself is an oxymoron.

Raquel Pinkbullet on May 9, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Based on the eye witness testimony, what choice did the prosecutor have but not to file charges against the two brothers?

Having said that, however, the DA has reserved the right to file charges down the road if it is discovered that the brothers had knowledge or assisted Castro in a cover up. The new prosecutor, Tim McGinty, is a former county judge and one tough SOB. If there’s even a whiff of the brothers’ participation, he’ll drop the hammer on them.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Cleveland right? How did a tough on crime DA get elected there?

Raquel Pinkbullet on May 9, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Sorry that talk really does not belong here but if we are to go there…what party do you think the hero belongs to? CW on May 9, 2013 at 8:19 PM

I enjoy moral preening, so thanks.

But expressing a desire to see him flayed alive draws no comment? Ok!

Akzed on May 9, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Kennedy v Louisiana expanded on Coker v Georgia to also ban executions of child rapists.

The Court wrote:

‘Our concern here is limited to crimes against individual persons. We do not address, for example, crimes defining and punishing treason, espionage, terrorism, and drug kingpin activity, which are offenses against the State.’

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Just designate the crime as eligible for execution in your state constitution and execute him. Whatis scotus gonna do, shoot bolts of lightning from their fingertips at you?

Even better, make the designation through. Ballot proposition?

Buddahpundit on May 9, 2013 at 8:54 PM

And one thing I’d say about the hero in this story is he is the same type of you you all here would categorize as an obama voter. Dumb, poor, looking for handouts, lazy etc. But when asked about a reward he said all money should go to the victims. Remember that next time you guys try to lump all of those who aren’t reuplican together as poor, welfare reciving dummies who want a handout.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

You should try taking your own advice and not lump together all republicans/conservatives to fit the mold you’re trying to create with your specious argument.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Not going to well,in Ohio????

@whiotv tweeted:
whiotv
#BREAKING: Northern Ohio AMBER Alert case is now a double homicide http://t.co/4LFFYh0hqa

9 mins ago from twitter.com by partner
==========================================

http://www.whiotv.com/news/news/crime-law/amber-alert-in-effect-for-3-missing-teens/nXmXw/

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:56 PM

Perhaps this Castro guy should change his name to ‘Gosnell.’

locomotivebreath1901 on May 9, 2013 at 8:58 PM

As a fan of Fox and Hot Air, I deplore both for adding to the hype on these tabloid trash stories: The Cleveland kidnapping and the Arias case. Hyped coverage of crap like this diminishes the seriousness of both Fox and Hot Air.

petefrt on May 9, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Can’t he just claim to be an abortionist that slipped up? His basement is probably clean and sterile compared to Gosnell’s house of horrors.

slickwillie2001 on May 9, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Under ohio law, the killing of the fetus is aggravated murder. The problem will be the special circ that is necessary to elevate it to a capital case. Unfortunately, Ohio has not made false imprisonment a special circumstance.

Blake on May 9, 2013 at 8:52 PM

But these would/may apply:

* The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense.

[He starved and beat the woman into a miscarriage, which created a grave risk to both the foetus and the mother]

And…

* The offender in the commission of the offense, purposefully caused the death of another who was under thirteen years of age at the time of the commission of the offense and the defendant committed the offense with prior calculation and design.

[The foetuses would have been under 13 years of age]

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:00 PM

To all those asking how does those who support abortion view the forced death of a fetus in a murder circumstance I ask you how would you view consental sex with a bf or gf to date rape?

If a woman gives the consent to end her pregnancy under our laws amd her baby is murdered during the commission of a crime then I honestly don’t see How that relates to an legal abortion.

That is unless your saying that anything else that you legally consent to can be done with out your consent and should still be okay.

I don’t get that arguement.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:01 PM

Raqueal pinkbullet says “There’s no such thing as heroic democrat” so all of the democratic cops, firemen and military service people are not heros.

When you people take such wild stances is there any suprise you can’t win presidental elections?

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:04 PM

As a fan of Fox and Hot Air, I deplore both for adding to the hype on these tabloid trash stories: The Cleveland kidnapping and the Arias case. Hyped coverage of crap like this diminishes the seriousness of both Fox and Hot Air.

petefrt on May 9, 2013 at 8:59 PM

It’s a close call. Usually HotGas avoids such stories. Here they’re just looking at technical aspects, and will very likely not deal with it beyond that.

Paul-Cincy on May 9, 2013 at 9:04 PM

And one thing I’d say about the hero in this story is he is the same type of you you all here would categorize as an obama voter. Dumb, poor, looking for handouts, lazy etc. But when asked about a reward he said all money should go to the victims. Remember that next time you guys try to lump all of those who aren’t reuplican together as poor, welfare reciving dummies who want a handout.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Not really, but I categorize you as a douchebag.

slickwillie2001 on May 9, 2013 at 9:04 PM

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:01 PM

The difference is that your consensual (note spelling) sex/date rape scenario does not involve a third person, the foetus.

Do you believe that a foetus is the ‘property’ of a woman?

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:05 PM

Grannydee you are correct.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:06 PM

He should get death penalty.

If only he had been a Planned Parenthood employee, then all the dead baby stuff would earn him praise from all the liberals. They might even contribute to his defense fund.

WisCon on May 9, 2013 at 9:06 PM

abortion is murder…democrats are baby killers….

crosshugger on May 9, 2013 at 9:07 PM

Resist we much. Sorry for the spelling. I’m using a mobile phone not a laptop. I’ve suggested a mobile app before :-)

But okay. Lets add a 3rd person. So a mother gives me consent to watch her kid on monday and then with out her consent I come and kidnap her kid on tuesday. Is that okay?

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:08 PM

The difference is that your consensual (note spelling) sex/date rape scenario does not involve a third person, the foetus.

Do you believe that a foetus is the ‘property’ of a woman?

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:05 PM

you’re making an assumption that the fetus (note spelling) is already at a stage to qualify its personhood

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:08 PM

Well I was mystified at that,because the brothers,in all those years,just had to know something.

And the law is the law,and I get your points,and just seeing that headline pop up,seems to raise alarm bells,……*sigh*!!:)

canopfor on May 9, 2013 at 8:52 PM

I know. It’s really a bizarre thing that no one…not the neighbors, not Castro’s family…knew what was taking place over 10+ years in his home. In fact, the DeJesus family knew him and while Gina DeJesus was being held captive, her own brother (or maybe it was an uncle) was in Castro’s house and didn’t hear or notice anything (other than the fact that there were padlocks on some doors)!

Oh, and forget about the stories some are reporting of naked women with chains around their necks in the backyard, or of some woman with a baby in her arms, pounding on a neighbor’s window. Not true and totally discredited by the young ladies themselves. Never happened. (Obviously, there are some neighbors looking to get their names in the news, which is sick all unto itself.)

In hindsight, common sense seems to dictate that someone would have noticed something, but then again remember John Wayne Gacy? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy)

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Why, no. Our Supreme Court, in its wisdom, decided a few years ago that it would amount to cruel and unusual punishment to give the needle to a degenerate like this “merely” for raping children repeatedly.

Fine…then castrate him and set him on fire.

sage0925 on May 9, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Slickwillie calls me a douchebag yet they make jokes about the horrible tragedy these girls/women went through.

I guess that makes sense.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:10 PM

Fire up Old Sparky and let him Ride the Lightning.

And bury him next to Dead Black Hat.

Bruno Strozek on May 9, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Old west style execution. Build the gallows while they watch. Lead them out and let them see their coffins and their graves. Let them whimper and cry then hang them separately one by one ……not to be vindictive or anything

jaywemm on May 9, 2013 at 9:13 PM

Waiting for “Doctor” Gosnell comment in 5… 4… 3…

Khun Joe on May 9, 2013 at 9:13 PM

I don’t get that arguement.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:01 PM

That’s because you’re an idiot.

WisCon on May 9, 2013 at 9:14 PM

I didn’t bother to read the comments but I always thought the reason for the death penalty only being applied in cases of death

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Yeh you didn’t read the comments . There are several states that do have the death penalty for rape of kids. Also, I doubt too many rapists are really thinking it that far through.

And one thing I’d say about the hero in this story is he is the same type of you you all here would categorize as an obama voter. Dumb, poor, looking for handouts, lazy etc. But when asked about a reward he said all money should go to the victims. Remember that next time you guys try to lump all of those who aren’t reuplican together as poor, welfare reciving dummies who want a handout.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Who is you?

I think the guy is a great guy and funny you’re the first to go with this angle… project much?

BTW this guy is far from a saint. Research his background….I hope he has his life turned around….

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:16 PM

WisCon

Why? Because I have an different opinion then you? Is that how you are in real life? I hope you actually know how to have adult discussions offline with out resorting to name calling.

WisCon: I don’t think schools should grade teachers based on test scores

Random Person at water cooler: I do. I think its a fair grading system.

WisCon: You’re and idiot! ::Walks away stomping and clenching his fist like a six year old::

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:18 PM

World English Dictionary
fetus or foetus (ˈfiːtəs)

For the dimmest of wits-you know who you are.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM

CW

I disagree. Read up eariler in the thread. Other commenters brought up his political affiliations.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Why are you replying to a jerk who admittedly doesn’t read the comments?

He just spouts crap to get a rise.

cozmo on May 9, 2013 at 9:20 PM

CW

I disagree. Read up eariler in the thread. Other commenters brought up his political affiliations.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Oh so you did read the comments.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:20 PM

So a mother gives me consent to watch her kid on monday and then with out her consent I come and kidnap her kid on tuesday. Is that okay?

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:08 PM

No, it is not. But, we are talking about whether the kid gets to live or die based on the mum’s whim. That’s it.

Look at the hypotheticals and examples of actual cases that I posted above. Look at the couple in Texas. She wants him to help her abort the twins by punching her abdomen. The scheme is successful. He receives a life sentence and she isn’t even prosecuted. Now, if you want to argue that the state shouldn’t have prosecuted the father, then I am with you. But, as long as we are going to prosecute foetal murder, it should be logical.

I think that the main issue is this: Depending upon geography and a woman’s intent, either the foetus is a foetus or an unborn child. We don’t usually do not write criminal law where whether there is a crime depends solely upon the intention of another person. If the state has decided that a foetus of a certain age is an unborn child in X situation, why should it be treated as a foetus in others sole because of my intention?

you’re making an assumption that the fetus (note spelling) is already at a stage to qualify its personhood

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:08 PM

I’m not making any assumptions. The law in the competent jurisdictions apply. The various laws control. In some states, the killing of a foetus (note: correct English spelling) at X weeks is a crime. In others, the law requires a viable foetus. In still others, the law applies to any foetus.

Nonpartisan, if a foetus is the property of a woman and she can do whatever with it she decides, shouldn’t also a kidney be? If so, why can’t a woman sell her kidney in the US?

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:20 PM

Cleveland right? How did a tough on crime DA get elected there?

Raquel Pinkbullet on May 9, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Yep, Cleveland.

To answer your question, when Bill Mason departed (yippee) McGinty threw his hat in the ring early on. He was a fairly well known and respected Common Pleas Court jurist of long-standing and ran on a really “tough on crime and corruption” platform. County residents were worn out after enduring the FBI corruption investigation of high ranking county officials, together with the horror of the Anthony Sowell trial (man who kidnapped, murdered and buried 11 women in his home). http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/anthony_sowell.htm

Guess it all boils down to McGinty being in the right place at the right time.

GrannyDee on May 9, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Cw.

I heard he had some arrests in his past although I don’t see how that matters. I think he did what a lot of people wouldn’t. There’s used to be a show that came on one of the networks that showed most americans will stay out of situations they feel don’t concern them even when they feel what is going on is illegal or wrong in some way.

None of us could ever say what we would do in a situation until we were in it but I hope that if I ever found myself in a situation like that I’d react the same way. I’m sure when the national media starts looking into any of our backgrounds I’m sure most people haven’t lived like a saint their whole life.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Nonpartisan, if a foetus is the property of a woman and she can do whatever with it she decides, shouldn’t also a kidney be? If so, why can’t a woman sell her kidney in the US?

Resist We Much on May 9, 2013 at 9:20 PM

beats me…I think a woman should be able to sell her kidney if they want to

I also believe assisted suicide should be ok with consent

see, I’m consistent

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

I disagree. Read up eariler in the thread. Other commenters brought up his political affiliations.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Actually nobody brought up the hero’s affiliation until I made the point that he likely was a Dem and none of what you said is supported in anybody’s comments prior to your posting of that pablum.NOTHING.

So back up your statement…. oh wait…you can’t. I guess prejudging is ok…. for YOU. Eh?

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

The various laws control. In some states, the killing of a foetus (note: correct English spelling)

nobody spells it like that

you’re doing it just to sound intellectual

nonpartisan on May 9, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Does Ariel Castro deserve death?

Slow death, by beating him, in his stomach, to nearly dead, for months, then killing him.

Schadenfreude on May 9, 2013 at 9:26 PM

Cw.

I heard he had some arrests in his past although I don’t see how that matters.

Politricks on May 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM

Well don’t act like he’s perfect. I like the guy . I believe he is genuine. Now you ….you start making accusations with NOTHING.

CW on May 9, 2013 at 9:26 PM

I come back and it’s like a paranha tank in here.
Can we all agree we need to really examine what we are allowing to come in the country?
This trash was from Puerto Ricio.

AllahsNippleHair on May 9, 2013 at 9:28 PM

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