43 years ago today: Four dead in Ohio

posted at 1:01 pm on May 4, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Every year on this date, a somber anniversary rolls around which which we would all do well to never forget. It was on this day in 1970 when anti-war protesters at Kent State University were confronted by members of the Ohio National Guard. Thirteen seconds and 67 bullets later, more than a dozen of the students had been shot, leaving four dead and another permanently paralyzed. Two of the dead weren’t even taking part in the protest, but were passing through the area from one class to the next. One of them was an ROTC member. The names of those killed are:

Jeffrey Glenn Miller, 20
Allison B. Krause, 19
William Knox Schroeder,19
Sandra Lee Scheuer,20

The story of the Kent State shooting is far more complex than many people on either side of the debate might care to concede. (And it’s a debate that goes on to this day.) The event is frequently portrayed as a simple gathering of peaceful protesters who were attacked by the National Guard, but there’s a lot more to the story which must be kept in mind if we’re evaluate it honestly. Trouble and violence had begun three days earlier, with a campus protest which later that night spilled out into the streets of Kent, with drunken protesters – reportedly mixed with bikers and transients – setting fires and hurling bottles and rocks at police. These disturbances grew over the next two days, leading to the decision to call in the National Guard in the first place. On the day of the shootings, another group had defied an order to disburse and were again throwing rocks and other objects at guardsmen and police.

But even for all that, the event should never have been allowed to spiral out of control the way it did. Events were mishandled at every level, and in the end there is no disputing the fact that armed soldiers wound up opening fire on students with no firearms from a range of a couple hundred feet in most cases. And despite the behavior of some of them, the students were engaged in exercising their right of free speech and protesting the government’s policies. Being shot dead on campus grounds by government troops was not the end they deserved and remains a stain on our nation to this day. It’s a sad lesson which we should always keep in mind and important reminder for elected officials at every level. Something like this should never happen again.

For those who happen to visit the area, Kent State’s May 4th visitor center opened last year and provides a study of the events of that horrible day.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3

So in addition to being a pu$$y you’re also stupid.

MelonCollie on May 4, 2013 at 2:52

For an internet tough guy, you’re real scary. Why don’t you put a straw in that root beer and suck it good.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Ack.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:04 PM

I live to out *Ack you. ;)

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Are you KIDDING ms Jass? Are you FREAKING KIDDING ME?

williamg on May 4, 2013 at 3:09 PM

The event is frequently portrayed as a simple gathering of peaceful protesters who were attacked by the National Guard,

As near as I can tell, it’s “frequently portrayed” that way because the media was sympathetic to the rioters.

But when the National Guard has been called in with rifles to quell a disturbance, and the “peaceful protesters” are pelting them with rocks, bottles, and what-not, then it’s not a peaceful protest, but a riot. And the rioters were responded to with force. A lot of the campus radicals were in love with the idea of revolution, and got what they were saying they wanted.

So I don’t see why the National Guard should bear any of the blame. Any innocent lives that were lost were dead because some radicals tried to provoke a confrontation.

“You say you want a revolution?” Oops.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 4, 2013 at 3:10 PM

So in addition to being a pu$$y you’re also stupid.

MelonCollie on May 4, 2013 at 2:52

For an internet tough guy, you’re real scary. Why don’t you put a straw in that root beer and suck it good.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Hey Tit, a question.
If one of the MayDay protestors in Seattle was killed, would you be mourning their demise, like the ones who threw rocks, bottles, or sprayed silly string on an officer? That crap is flammable.
They also destroyed property as well.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM

But they have an Orange/Cream cream sickle one, I have my eye on.
YuMMMMM.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Yep, love that stuff. Cracker Barrel has it here, and there is a grocery store in Pine Top that has a good selection of Stewarts flavors. Their Creme Soda is really good as weil.

AZfederalist on May 4, 2013 at 3:15 PM

The event is frequently portrayed as a simple gathering of peaceful protesters who were attacked by the National Guard,

As near as I can tell, it’s “frequently portrayed” that way because the media was sympathetic to the rioters.

But when the National Guard has been called in with rifles to quell a disturbance, and the “peaceful protesters” are pelting them with rocks, bottles, and what-not, then it’s not a peaceful protest, but a riot. And the rioters were responded to with force. A lot of the campus radicals were in love with the idea of revolution, and got what they were saying they wanted.

So I don’t see why the National Guard should bear any of the blame. Any innocent lives that were lost were dead because some radicals tried to provoke a confrontation.

“You say you want a revolution?” Oops.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 4, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Had they limited their fire to the protesters, I would agree with your point.

Innocent lives were lost because the National Guard tried to play a game you should never play with a firearm. That is, instead of a weapon, they tried to make their guns a device of intimidation.

The fact that the innocents were shot tells me two things; 1) The national guard did not identify specific targets to shoot at, and 2) they did not concern themselves with downrange when shooting.

Both of those issues make the National Guardsmen who fired their weapons without knowing both of those factors Liable and Responsible.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 3:17 PM

If one of the MayDay protestors in Seattle was killed, would you be mourning their demise, like the ones who threw rocks, bottles, or sprayed silly string on an officer? That crap is flammable.
They also destroyed property as well.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Not likely. This regime will not open fire on their own base.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:18 PM

FYI – The girl crying in that photograph is the 14 year old girlfriend of the dead guy. She was a runaway at the time.

myiq2xu on May 4, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Ack.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:04 PM

I live to out *Ack you. ;)

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:06 PM

You know Ms OWS only uses one square of toilet paper like Sheryl Crowe told her to do. AND, she bags up her own urine and feces to throw at the police. And, she doesn’t wash her hands because this imperialist country uses too much of earth’s resources and she doesn’t want to be part of the problem!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:20 PM

If one of the MayDay protestors in Seattle was killed, would you be mourning their demise, like the ones who threw rocks, bottles, or sprayed silly string on an officer? That crap is flammable.
They also destroyed property as well.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Not likely. This regime will not open fire on their own base.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:18 PM

I asked if YOU would shed a tear, Tif. Answer the question.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Both of those issues make the National Guardsmen who fired their weapons without knowing both of those factors Liable and Responsible.

Okay, that’s Redundant.

What I’m saying is the fact that 67 shots were fired and 67 bullets were not removed from Protestors (at that range) shows that the National Guard was guilty at best of Gross Incompetence.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 3:24 PM

AZfederalist on May 4, 2013 at 3:15 PM

love me some Crackle Barrel.
I moved..not one close to me. :(
I know..I enjoy they carry all the ol’ time goodies.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:25 PM

When’s Neil Young gonna write a song about Waco?

Akzed on May 4, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Here’s the response to Neil Young.

gh on May 4, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Jazz, your thinking is part of the problem with progressives. The blood is on the SDS hands. They started it, escalated it and caused innocents to die. The fact that national gaurdsmen killed them is immaterial – they are after all the sword of government. Even if all the protestors were mowed down. On the other hand Waco and Ruby Ridge were the governmental abuse of that sword. As it is now when the state begins confiscating arms. The more I think about it, “shall not be infringed” includes felons. When the gun grabbers came for the felons, we didn’t speak up. Now the govt has burdened US with the multitudes of laws such that we are now all felons subject to the whims of prosecutors.

AH_C on May 4, 2013 at 3:27 PM

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:20 PM

K, you out Ack’d me.
This time.

As someone proposed yesterday…if they are so interested in how they are
the problem..they are free to check out. Be part of the solution!

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:28 PM

I pefer to remember to remember the truck-bombing of Sterling Hall at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. A father of three, Robert Fassnacht, was murdered. Large parts of the vehicle landed hundreds of yards away.

We’re not policemen, least of all “Officer Friendly”. Put us in front of people bent on the destruction of our country, and bodies are gonna fall. Put yourself in the middle of the crowd of those bent on destruction, and, well, you’ve made a bad choice.

BTW, were any of those Guardsmen ever offered a professorship in the Ivy League?.

M240H on May 4, 2013 at 3:30 PM

I asked if YOU would shed a tear

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Nip,

I’ll leave the emotions to you guys.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:30 PM

AZfederalist on May 4, 2013 at 3:15 PM

love me some Crackle Barrel.
I moved..not one close to me. :(
I know..I enjoy they carry all the ol’ time goodies.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Fried shrimp. The dumplings.
Kill me now. No CB within 100 miles!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Not sure that’s cogent…

Akzed on May 4, 2013 at 1:34 PM

It is. Look at McVeigh’s motives.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/mcveighwaco.html

unclesmrgol on May 4, 2013 at 3:34 PM

I asked if YOU would shed a tear

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Nip,

I’ll leave the emotions to you guys.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:30 PM

The four you mourn are the trash we have to deal with today: in the democrat party and all their ilk.
You can’t answer the question because you know we are right, Tit.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Nipple,

If your point is that the government acted properly, I don’t agree.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:38 PM

The fact that national gaurdsmen killed them is immaterial – they are after all the sword of government. Even if all the protestors were mowed down.

AH_C on May 4, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not a primary argument of the Left that the Citizenry should not be armed because they are “untrained in the proper handling firearms.” While (as you put it) The Sword of the Government are thoroughly trained in handling firearms?

If that is so, then why were the National Guard so Incompetent with their weapons?

Regardless of the cause, the effect should not be whitewashed just because degenerates created the situation. Otherwise you allow for the current administration to send a Hellfire Missile into the crowd at the Boston Marathon to take out Thing 1 and Thing 2 after they let off their pressure cooker bombs. For any collateral damage of such attack would surely be on the terrorist heads.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Fried shrimp. The dumplings.
Kill me now. No CB within 100 miles!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM

10 minutes garage to front door.

/yeah, we are spoiled. Cracker Barrel breakfast on our off Fridays (Saturday and Sunday are too crowded)

AZfederalist on May 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Nipple,

If your point is that the government acted properly, I don’t agree.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:38 PM

You sound like Rachel Maddow, Tit.
They started it.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Fried shrimp. The dumplings.
Kill me now. No CB within 100 miles!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM

10 minutes garage to front door.

/yeah, we are spoiled. Cracker Barrel breakfast on our off Fridays (Saturday and Sunday are too crowded)

AZfederalist on May 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM

I’m moving in, Arizona!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:46 PM

Fried shrimp. The dumplings.
Kill me now. No CB within 100 miles!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM

I had one 10 mins away in Orlando..

35 mins here..maybe..

Oh, I wont list my faves..it would take 3 paragraphs! :)
Dumplings..oh yeah!
If I meet the Nip-we r goin to CB.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:51 PM

I don’t expect you to understand, Nipple, but the government’s actions, if nothing else, were a strategic blunder, not uncommon to history. It served as a tipping point and helped move public opinion toward, what once was, a vocal and radical minority.

Today these same radicals control the big guns and have the badges. Big government is a problem, whether it’s in the hands of a Nixon, or an Obama.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Their breakfast is mad crazy yum.
Country fried steak w/gravy..then the works..
Grampas saw mill breakfast.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Fried shrimp. The dumplings.
Kill me now. No CB within 100 miles!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:31 PM

I had one 10 mins away in Orlando..

35 mins here..maybe..

Oh, I wont list my faves..it would take 3 paragraphs! :)
Dumplings..oh yeah!
If I meet the Nip-we r goin to CB.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:51 PM

We’ll order the entire menu! A feast!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM

We’ll order the entire menu! A feast!

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 3:53 PM

haha..Damn straight and sweet tea! ;)
we will dine
break
lunch
dinner

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Poor things, they would’ve be so much safer in the Ia Drang valley, the A Shau valley, at Hue, and Khe Sanh, et al.

But for those damned college deferments, they would’ve been safe-and-sound, and living the life in South Vietnam.

[Sidebar - Just for old times' sake, there should be a picture of an NVA flag, that flew over so many college campuses - while others did the fighting in South Vietnam]

OhEssYouCowboys on May 4, 2013 at 1:43 PM

As one OKIE to another +1000.

Do you realize that those college students, under obama, would have been elegible for PTSD money for the humanity!, horror, disconvenience they went through trying to get and maintain their deferments.

After it was somewhat over, the military stuck me in the Reserves to finish my time. Outside of that pain in the arse, I had the time of my life turning down all those college grads in the steel mills fro acceptance in the reserves. (actually, at that time, the Reserves were used to allow veterans to finish their time usefully, and they didn’t want any non veterans.)

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Poor things, they would’ve be so much safer in the Ia Drang valley, the A Shau valley, at Hue, and Khe Sanh, et al.

But for those damned college deferments, they would’ve been safe-and-sound, and living the life in South Vietnam.

[Sidebar - Just for old times' sake, there should be a picture of an NVA flag, that flew over so many college campuses - while others did the fighting in South Vietnam]

OhEssYouCowboys on May 4, 2013 at 1:43 PM

As one OKIE to another +1000.

Do you realize that those college students, under obama, would have been elegible for PTSD money for the humanity!, horror, disconvenience they went through trying to get and maintain their deferments.

After it was somewhat over, the military stuck me in the Reserves to finish my time. Outside of that pain in the arse, I had the time of my life turning down all those college grads in the steel mills fro acceptance in the reserves. (actually, at that time, the Reserves were used to allow veterans to finish their time usefully, and they didn’t want any non veterans.)

As we used to say “sorry ’bout that”

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 4:07 PM

I have always thought of Kent State as ‘the politics of confrontation’ reaching their logical conclusion.

PersonFromPorlock on May 4, 2013 at 4:18 PM

A far more important May 4th anniversary:
May 4,1893 – Cowboy Bob Pickett invents bulldogging.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on May 4, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Anyways… how is everyone’s Saturday going? Good I hope.

Punchenko on May 4, 2013 at 4:22 PM

suck it good.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 3:05 PM

…but we ask you to…be gentle!

KOOLAID2 on May 4, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Or giving the dirty clam a french braid.
Combing the lice from its leg shag.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:03 PM

You have found, in these simple sentences, the actual opposite of porn!

I may never be aroused again…

massrighty on May 4, 2013 at 4:41 PM

Upthread, there’s now an argument between two men who are calling themselves tit and nipple.

That’s funny, right there!

massrighty on May 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM

massrighty on May 4, 2013 at 4:45 PM

He started it!

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 4:58 PM

New lyrics:

Is-laa-mists don’t like that movie.
They’re sacking our em-baa-see.
Phone’s ringing and Clinton’s snoring.
Four dead in Ben-Gah-Zee.

Doug Piranha on May 4, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Regardless of the cause, the effect should not be whitewashed just because degenerates created the situation. Otherwise you allow for the current administration to send a Hellfire Missile into the crowd at the Boston Marathon to take out Thing 1 and Thing 2 after they let off their pressure cooker bombs. For any collateral damage of such attack would surely be on the terrorist heads.jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Did you read the rest of my comment? I was acknowledging the the sword can be used for good or bad-a bible reference. in the case of violent rioting, the govt is justified in the extent used. Yes there are usually collateral damage. And so it goes. The blames rests on the instigators. Plus Kent didn’t happen in a vacuum, those soldiers were living in the time well aware of plenty of assaultsand attacks on LE. From the FF’s perspective, if SDS could make the moral case that they were suffering under tyranny, they would be free to take up arms, fight and bear the consequences. SDS can’t and therefore acted criminally.

AH_C on May 4, 2013 at 5:04 PM

The Vietnam War was a disaster. Started by JFK and escalated by LBJ. This war forever changed this country. We lost that war and haven’t won a war since. Iraq was a complete waste and we have been in Afghanistan for over ten years. You can’t fight a war with rules. You have to destroy the enemy. Aslong as we keep on the current path we will see soldiers being killed for nothing.

alanstern on May 4, 2013 at 5:13 PM

The exact same post is on the Federalist Papers FaceBook page. Doing double duty?

Fynxbell on May 4, 2013 at 5:45 PM

The Vietnam War was a disaster. Started by JFK and escalated by LBJ. This war forever changed this country. We lost that war and haven’t won a war since. Iraq was a complete waste and we have been in Afghanistan for over ten years. You can’t fight a war with rules. You have to destroy the enemy. Aslong as we keep on the current path we will see soldiers being killed for nothing.

alanstern on May 4, 2013 at 5:13 PM

Bullcrap. The Vietnam War was won, the South was beginning to carry most of the burden. Documents later published by the North admitted that they had lost. All the South needed from us were bullets and air support.

The democratics in Congress could not stomach the fact that a Republican president could with the war that a democratic could not, so they cut off all support. Without US materiel, the North reinvaded the South and defeated the South.

The democratic-held Congress lost the war.

slickwillie2001 on May 4, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Being shot dead on campus grounds by government troops was not the end they deserved and remains a stain on our nation to this day. It’s a sad lesson which we should always keep in mind and important reminder for elected officials at every level.

Oh spare me the sob story. Did Christopher Stevens get the end he deserved at the hands of our government? The thousands killed on 9/11/01 because of a President and administration who denied that there was an active terrorist threat on US soil? For that matter what about those who were killed because they were not sitting in middle America on a college deferment from the draft.

And whatever the real situation at Kent State 43 years ago, this was a time when innocents were being killed in college campus bombings by the same anti-war movement. Obama’s pal bombed the US Capital and killed cops. Kent State gave pause because it was American troops killing Americans for the first time since the Civil War. But let’s not suggest the incident is so simple as declaring it a national stain.

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 6:01 PM

She lets him braid her arm pit hair.

AllahsNippleHair on May 4, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Or giving the dirty clam a french braid.
Combing the lice from its leg shag.

bazil9 on May 4, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Ack here, too. Not something to read while eating.

PatriotGal2257 on May 4, 2013 at 6:02 PM

Meh. Kent State happened in May, I made my ‘world debut’ in late October…and my non-baby boomer parents seemed to firmly believe that those who were shot @ Kent State deserved it. As Jewish conservatives born during WWII, they had little use for BB’s-and ZERO use for leftists.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:03 PM

The average HA denizen was too old at the time to remember the events clearly. Heh.

antisense on May 4, 2013 at 6:04 PM

New lyrics:

Is-laa-mists don’t like that movie.
They’re sacking our em-baa-see.
Phone’s ringing and Clinton’s snoring.
Four dead in Ben-Gah-Zee.

Doug Piranha on May 4, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Bravo!

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:06 PM

The democratics in Congress could not stomach the fact that a Republican president could with the war that a democratic could not, so they cut off all support. Without US materiel, the North reinvaded the South and defeated the South.

The democratic-held Congress lost the war.

slickwillie2001 on May 4, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Just as I gave Jazz Shaw grief for simplifying Kent State, I’ve got to take exception to your summation.

By 1970, combat action in Vietnam was a political and societal issue. But just as the war itself was a proxy for the Cold War, the anti-war protest was a proxy war for underlying issues about trust in government, perceived racial and class inequties, and even just what kind of a society we should be building. Political hacks as diverse as John McCain and John Kerry have built their entire political careers on this proxy war.

And the debate continues because this was and is a societal war wrapped in military action. The left still hates the military. Jane Fonda is still unforgiven by veteran’s organizations. And we still don’t have historical perspective on it all despite these absurd “solemn rememberances” of four college students killed in Ohio in 1970. Chicago has more deaths from firearms on any given weekend.

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 6:16 PM

New lyrics:

Is-laa-mists don’t like that movie.
They’re sacking our em-baa-see.
Phone’s ringing and Clinton’s snoring.
Four dead in Ben-Gah-Zee.

Doug Piranha on May 4, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Bravo!

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:06 PM

Perfect. Bravo here, too.

PatriotGal2257 on May 4, 2013 at 6:19 PM

The event is frequently portrayed as a simple gathering of peaceful protesters who were attacked by the National Guard,

As near as I can tell, it’s “frequently portrayed” that way because the media was sympathetic to the rioters.

But when the National Guard has been called in with rifles to quell a disturbance, and the “peaceful protesters” are pelting them with rocks, bottles, and what-not, then it’s not a peaceful protest, but a riot. And the rioters were responded to with force. A lot of the campus radicals were in love with the idea of revolution, and got what they were saying they wanted.

So I don’t see why the National Guard should bear any of the blame. Any innocent lives that were lost were dead because some radicals tried to provoke a confrontation.

“You say you want a revolution?” Oops.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 4, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Had they limited their fire to the protesters, I would agree with your point.

Innocent lives were lost because the National Guard tried to play a game you should never play with a firearm. That is, instead of a weapon, they tried to make their guns a device of intimidation.

The fact that the innocents were shot tells me two things; 1) The national guard did not identify specific targets to shoot at, and 2) they did not concern themselves with downrange when shooting.

Both of those issues make the National Guardsmen who fired their weapons without knowing both of those factors Liable and Responsible.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Negative. Innocent lives were lost because agitators started a riot, and the innocent weren’t expecting that. When you get to the point of riots, innocent people die at the hands of the people who put down the riots. That doesn’t make it the fault of those who put down the riots.

Yes, you can say that some innocent people died who shouldn’t have. But the National Guard did exactly what they were supposed to do: ended a “revolution” by activists who admired the bloody revolutions of the Communists.

When you have the National Guard standing there with weapons to put down a riot, and the rioters start throwing bricks and bottles at them, that’s how revolutions begin. In fact, this basically became a military action with the National Guard responding to assault.

The National Guard acted according to their function and their orders, and exactly according to how all the “revolutionaries” should have expected them to act. It’s awfully hard to turn around and blame them for quelling the disturbance.

If you want to argue they shouldn’t have been there, that’s a good point. Maybe the governor was just too concerned about looking tough. But the bloodshed happened because these were not peaceful protesters. Even when presented with a show of force, they stupidly insisted on provocation.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 6:23 PM

The National Guard did nothing improper. However, because these were a bunch of college age punk white kids high on dope instead of Right wing wackos, I say let’s use equivocation concerning referring to the troops as government and begging the question with respect to whether not being chased by a rock throwing mob is sufficient cause to fire at the same. After all we have to keep some perspective.

Observation on May 4, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Regardless of the cause, the effect should not be whitewashed just because degenerates created the situation. Otherwise you allow for the current administration to send a Hellfire Missile into the crowd at the Boston Marathon to take out Thing 1 and Thing 2 after they let off their pressure cooker bombs. For any collateral damage of such attack would surely be on the terrorist heads.jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Did you read the rest of my comment? I was acknowledging the the sword can be used for good or bad-a bible reference. in the case of violent rioting, the govt is justified in the extent used. Yes there are usually collateral damage. And so it goes. The blames rests on the instigators. Plus Kent didn’t happen in a vacuum, those soldiers were living in the time well aware of plenty of assaultsand attacks on LE. From the FF’s perspective, if SDS could make the moral case that they were suffering under tyranny, they would be free to take up arms, fight and bear the consequences. SDS can’t and therefore acted criminally.

AH_C on May 4, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Yes I did.
But I am not discussing the justification (or non-justification) of the use of force.
I am discussing the responsibility of anyone, including the National Guard, shooting a firearm.
I have never sent a bullet out of any of my guns that I did not know where it was going to ultimately end up. I expect no less from anyone else, and especially from people charged with keeping the general public safe.
Every one of those Guardsmen who did not know exactly where their bullet was going had a responsibility to hold his fire until they did.It’s that simple!

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Question: What do you call four dead hippies at Kent State?

Answer: A good start.

Dukeboy01 on May 4, 2013 at 6:29 PM

When you have the National Guard standing there with weapons to put down a riot, and the rioters start throwing bricks and bottles at them, that’s how revolutions begin. In fact, this basically became a military action with the National Guard responding to assault.

The National Guard acted according to their function and their orders, and exactly according to how all the “revolutionaries” should have expected them to act. It’s awfully hard to turn around and blame them for quelling the disturbance.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 6:23 PM

So in your book the function and orders of the National Guard is to fire weapons utilizing the Spaghetti theory. Don’t bother aiming and hitting the enemy, just send bullets out there willy nilly and one of them is bound to hit something!

Brilliant, why didn’t I see it that way.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Meh. Kent State happened in May, I made my ‘world debut’ in late October…and my non-baby boomer parents seemed to firmly believe that those who were shot @ Kent State deserved it. As Jewish conservatives born during WWII, they had little use for BB’s-and ZERO use for leftists.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Just the year before Kent State there was the huge anti-war march in DC. My family was living in DC in a newly built subdivision. The residents called it “Peanut Butter Hill” because the homes were affordable for young professional families and older blue collar workers only because the breadwinner took peanut butter sandwiches for work. I post that to help provide context about just how stupid it is to focus in on Kent State as some sort of a milestone.

When the anti-war march occurred in 1969, one of the neighborhood teens who babysat me and my brother wanted to go down to the mall to protest (I’m apparently a few years older than you). Her father (a police officer) told her that if she did so then she didn’t need to return home afterward- and he meant it. There was that kind of division within American society. And it is that nuance that is missing in this particular thread’s suggestion about the “debate” over Kent State.

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Blood was clearly on the hands of the SDS
I remember those days. I was visiting the wounded at Bethesda Navel Hospital while my neighbors snott ass daughter joined the SDS and rioted in Boston.
I remember Kent State and the riots where our National Guard tried to defend themselves from flying glass and bottles filled with gasoline on fire being thrown threw the air.
God Bless our National Guard and don’t you dare try to make these F’n kids out to be some kind of heros!
If innocents died and they did, the Blood is on the hands of Bill Ayers and the SDS and the other subversive crap who run our country today and teach in our schools.
How dare you!

Delsa on May 4, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Four WW I veterans were also killed by the US Army when they protested at the Washington Mall in DC wanting more money on their pensions. MacAuthor, Eisenhower and Patton were all there. I believe they called it “Black Thursday”.

mixplix on May 4, 2013 at 6:37 PM

How many Americans died in Vietnam on that day and what were their names?

camerc on May 4, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 6:35 PM

My father tried to join the USMC in 1960. He was permanently , medically rejected. A few years later, Ma passed all the tests to join the Air Force-and was refused permission by her parents(According to them-only bad girls joined the Military). I’m sure my parents felt the way they did, in part because of the way the left was treating our troops.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:46 PM

mixplix on May 4, 2013 at 6:37 PM
It was the Bonus Army.

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:47 PM

I remember Kent State and the riots where our National Guard tried to defend themselves from flying glass and bottles filled with gasoline on fire being thrown threw the air.
God Bless our National Guard and don’t you dare try to make these F’n kids out to be some kind of heros!
If innocents died and they did, the Blood is on the hands of Bill Ayers and the SDS and the other subversive crap who run our country today and teach in our schools.
How dare you!

Delsa on May 4, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Standing up clapping!

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 6:48 PM

New lyrics:

Is-laa-mists don’t like that movie.
They’re sacking our em-baa-see.
Phone’s ringing and Clinton’s snoring.
Four dead in Ben-Gah-Zee.

Doug Piranha on May 4, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Bravo!

annoyinglittletwerp on May 4, 2013 at 6:06 PM

Get that to Paul Shanklin via Rush Limbaugh! Might be hard to find a singer with a voice whiney enough to mimic Neil Young though.

slickwillie2001 on May 4, 2013 at 6:51 PM

Four WW I veterans were also killed by the US Army when they protested at the Washington Mall in DC wanting more money on their pensions.

mixplix on May 4, 2013 at 6:37 PM

You’ve got it all wrong. This had nothing to do with pensions. The Bonus Army was due a pay out for their service in 1945 but with the Great Depression they wanted an earlier pay out in 1932.
Two people died.

But here’s a question for you. How do you suppose their experience in this incident effected MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton? Especially Eisenhower who went on to lead the allies and the nation.

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 7:01 PM

The governor of Ohio and the guardsmen who fired (and who were in no immediate danger at the time) should have been out on trial and if found guilty, executed.

NealK on May 4, 2013 at 2:26 PM

I just reviewed all the posts again and I noticed the above post popping up several times, generally with someone’s comment affixed. I am flabbergasted that there is someone like NealK posting on Hot Air. This person has not only never learned anything from reading Hot Air, but he has obviously not learned anything in school. Sir (and I use that term loosely) Those NG troops were somewhat trained for battle and rescuing flood victims. They were not trained in riot or crowd control. So they should be executed? The Governor should also be executed for calling them into the service of suppressing a riot.

Oh, I see you said, like a proper American, that they should be tried, and if found guilty, executed. Found guilty of what. Insurrection carried the death penalty. Soldiers can not be found guilty of executing lawful orders. The penalty for attacking an armed soldier may be, you guessed it , death. Why bother? You would execute anyway for your political reasons. Before and after this riot, some of these NG types placed their lives on the line, some of them may have made the ultimate sacrifice – or they would have if needed – so that stupid (not ignorant, you had you chance) jerks like you can want them executed. If I had made the same comment about your messiah obama, HA would have banned me.

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Leftists again and again threaten and attack others, and then are so OUTRAGED when those that are threatened defend themselves.

There was one victim at Kent State, the unfortunate ROTC guy. The rest got what they had coming to them.

WannabeAnglican on May 4, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Bullcrap. The Vietnam War was won, the South was beginning to carry most of the burden. Documents later published by the North admitted that they had lost. All the South needed from us were bullets and air support.

The democratics in Congress could not stomach the fact that a Republican president could with the war that a democratic could not, so they cut off all support. Without US materiel, the North reinvaded the South and defeated the South.

The democratic-held Congress lost the war.

slickwillie2001 on May 4, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Truer words were never spoken! AMEN

Delsa on May 4, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Melon, Bazillions & AZ:

A toast to you all with my IBC root beer!! A&W is great but I seem to be out of it at the moment.

A cheeseburger with onion, fries with BBQ sauce, crunchy apple pie and root beer is in order.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Old County Boy, I applaud you. The National Guard were exactly as you discribed and the idiots posting otherwise were not there are are depending on places like Wikapedia, todays text books written by the left, and the professors who were Weathermen and SDS members.
My friends volunteered to serve. They were not drafted! We had patriots back then,they exist today,are serving in our military, and are haveing to follow the orders of a SOB President!

Delsa on May 4, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Will four dead in Benghazi rate an anniversary?

hawkdriver on May 4, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Tin jihadists and ‘Bama’s coming.
We’re finally on our own.

So long ago… what difference does it make??

kim roy on May 4, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Wasting an anniversary on four fools is beyond me. It ranks right up there with celebrating the “courage” of a homosexual basketball player for admitting he’s a pervert.

Of course I’m sorry the youngsters died. I’m also sorry for the guy who sneaks into a zoo and gets mauled to death by a bear or gets a horn hooked into his heart by a Pamplona bull.If you dance defiantly along the edge of a cliff you can’t blame gravity if you fall over the edge.

In Kent State situations, if you’re going to bring in the military at all, bring in seasoned Army troops (maybe an MP Battalion) skilled in riot control—not panicky week-end warriors whose skill at weaponry is only a tad better than Nancy Pelosi’s. A scared kid with a gun who perceives he’s in danger will defend himself–as will a scared, cornered tiger. We don’t celebrate the death of a motoring teenager who plays chicken with a train–neither should we memorialize fools who play chicken with national guardsmen. But I will give anyone this advice–if there is an armed national guardsmen anywhere near you, bolt the door and dive under the bed.

MaiDee on May 4, 2013 at 8:55 PM

When you have the National Guard standing there with weapons to put down a riot, and the rioters start throwing bricks and bottles at them, that’s how revolutions begin. In fact, this basically became a military action with the National Guard responding to assault.

The National Guard acted according to their function and their orders, and exactly according to how all the “revolutionaries” should have expected them to act. It’s awfully hard to turn around and blame them for quelling the disturbance.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 6:23 PM

So in your book the function and orders of the National Guard is to fire weapons utilizing the Spaghetti theory. Don’t bother aiming and hitting the enemy, just send bullets out there willy nilly and one of them is bound to hit something!

Brilliant, why didn’t I see it that way.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 6:32 PM

They were trained in combat, and most combat soldiers are hardly snipers. In fact, in combat you’re generally not trying to hit somebody. You’re generally laying down a suppressive fire to keep the enemy from aiming at you.

So the idea that you can take every bullet that went astray and blame it on the National Guard is an absurdity. If you want to blame somebody, blame the rioters. They stupidly threw bottles, rocks, and bricks at an armed force as if they simultaneously believed a) that they were glorious revolutionaries, and b) that the armed force would take it as their duty to let themselves be attacked without defending themselves.

As for the innocents who died, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time when rioters were suppressed by the National Guard.

I’m not saying the Guard was heroic or awesome in this encounter. I’m just saying it’s wrong to blame them for the deaths of people during a riot.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:05 PM

In Kent State situations, if you’re going to bring in the military at all, bring in seasoned Army troops (maybe an MP Battalion) skilled in riot control—… is an armed national guardsmen anywhere near you, bolt the door and dive under the bed.

MaiDee on May 4, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Can’t – posse comitatus prohibits that. If you were a knowlegable American, you would know that. Since you aren’t, why should we listen to you? FYI, the NG of today is the most combat experienced and trained Army in the world, with the exception of the US Army. Unlike during the Vietnam war, the NG now does and did full battle honors in Iraq and Afghanistan. This isn’t your fathers NG. As far as an armed NG soldier near me, as long as he isn’t ANG shooting deer, that’s OK with me. Everytime I pass our armory, I give a little thanks. As far as MaiDee is concerned – FU.

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 9:19 PM

The democratics in Congress could not stomach the fact that a Republican president could with the war that a democratic could not, so they cut off all support. Without US materiel, the North reinvaded the South and defeated the South.

The democratic-held Congress lost the war.

slickwillie2001 on May 4, 2013 at 5:57 PM

Just as I gave Jazz Shaw grief for simplifying Kent State, I’ve got to take exception to your summation.

By 1970, combat action in Vietnam was a political and societal issue. But just as the war itself was a proxy for the Cold War, the anti-war protest was a proxy war for underlying issues about trust in government, perceived racial and class inequties, and even just what kind of a society we should be building. Political hacks as diverse as John McCain and John Kerry have built their entire political careers on this proxy war.

And the debate continues because this was and is a societal war wrapped in military action. The left still hates the military. Jane Fonda is still unforgiven by veteran’s organizations. And we still don’t have historical perspective on it all despite these absurd “solemn rememberances” of four college students killed in Ohio in 1970. Chicago has more deaths from firearms on any given weekend.

Happy Nomad on May 4, 2013 at 6:16 PM

I’ll take exception to your exception.

Not that what you say is wrong, per se. But no matter how much controversy there was over the Vietnam War, we spent many lives of both patriots who volunteered and reluctant draftees winning that war. Nixon was re-elected by a landslide because he said he could both win the war and end it. And whatever his other (many) failings, he did exactly that. The war was won, and South Vietnam was able to take on defending itself. Our only obligation was to do two things — and ONLY two things.

1) Provide air support, because South Vietnam didn’t have that capability
2) Provide funding

But when Nixon was impeached, and we were already out of Vietnam, the Democratic Congress deliberately threw away the hard-fought victory and withdrew both, breaking our promises and commitments to people who had fought on our side for a dozen years.

There is simply no excuse for it. None. If Nixon had been a Democrat, they wouldn’t have done it. They shouldn’t have done it for any reason. If treaties and commitments can be abandoned for no other reason than because a different political party comes to power, then we don’t have treaties and commitments. But we have always followed the principle of a new administration abiding by commitments made by the previous administration, even when the new administration is from a rival party.

After that kind of betrayal, why would another nation trust our word?

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:22 PM

Bullcrap. The Vietnam War was won, the South was beginning to carry most of the burden. Documents later published by the North admitted that they had lost. All the South needed from us were bullets and air support.

The democratics in Congress could not stomach the fact that a Republican president could with the war that a democratic could not, so they cut off all support. Without US materiel, the North reinvaded the South and defeated the South.

The democratic-held Congress lost the war.

Nothing was won. Over 50,000 Americans were killed for nothing. Hundreds of thousands came back with permanent injuries and drug addiction. Show the relatives of the dead what was won. The majority of those fighting didn’t want to be there. Anyone with pull got into the National Guard or got a deferment. Just ask Bill Clinton or George Bush. Same crap with Iraq and Afghanistan. What have we “WON” in either hell hole. This country doesn’t know how to fight a war. War now makes money for those who produce war materials. The problem is that you can’t replace the fallen soldiers. This country can’t even call Fort Hood a terrorist attack. Pathetic. We are finished.

alanstern on May 4, 2013 at 9:27 PM

I’m not saying the Guard was heroic or awesome in this encounter. I’m just saying it’s wrong to blame them for the deaths of people during a riot.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:05 PM

And I’m saying Anyone ANYONE, shooting a firearm is responsible for the effect of that shooting.

In as much as there were NO protestors shooting back, they had the time and the ability to make sure they were shooting correctly.

When you shoot 67 bullets and hit only 12 people with 13 bullets (5 of whom were downrange) that’s pretty sloppy shooting in my book.

The situation didn’t call for random fire, if they are going to shoot in that situation then shoot at the threat. A firearm serves one purpose only, and that is not intimidation. 54 bullets were fired at nothing because the Guardsmen were either to incompetent or didn’t care enough to determine where they were shooting.
In a foreign country suppression fire makes sense. On a college campus in the middle of a friendly city it is the height of incompetence to do so.
I would not blame the Guardsmen were there to be 67 bullets removed from various and sundry protestors, but for them to play games with weapons in friendly territory, regardless of kids with stones and bottles, was completely and totally irresponsible, and 5 people were hit that never should have been.
.
When you use a firearm, you either do it right, or leave it home!

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 9:29 PM

FYI, the NG of today is the most combat experienced and trained Army in the world, with the exception of the US Army. Unlike during the Vietnam war, the NG now does and did full battle honors in Iraq and Afghanistan. This isn’t your fathers NG. As far as an armed NG soldier near me, as long as he isn’t ANG shooting deer, that’s OK with me. Everytime I pass our armory, I give a little thanks. As far as MaiDee is concerned – FU.

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 9:19 PM

I think a lot of people still have a false impression of the Guard and Reserve that came from the Vietnam War era. During Vietnam, Lyndon Johnson made a political decision to not use the National Guard and Reserve in Vietnam, probably because as they rotated through Vietnam, their friends and neighbors might get resentful about the war. So Vietnam was fought with much less Guard and Reserve involvement for political reasons. So much so, that joining the National Guard became a good way to make sure you didn’t get drafted and sent to Vietnam.

But that gave the impression to many that the National Guard were not “real” soldiers, and may well be the source of the derisive epithet, “weekend warriors.”

Historically, that has not been the case. In most wars, the National Guard and various Reserve components play a much bigger role. Certainly in recent times many of the troops in combat in danger spots are just such “weekend warriors.” And most of the time, they perform quite well. They may not be as young as the active duty troops, but experience and maturity usually close the gap.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:34 PM

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 9:29 PM

What BS. Not even subjectively appropriate to the question. I suspect you don’t know sheep sh-t from parched corn about the military, as the rest of the 280 million people in this country don’t. You sound like one of the self-taught militia or gun safety types. Friendly territory? They were there to suppress a riot before it became an insurrection. What a dunce!

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 9:36 PM

I’m not saying the Guard was heroic or awesome in this encounter. I’m just saying it’s wrong to blame them for the deaths of people during a riot.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:05 PM

And I’m saying Anyone ANYONE, shooting a firearm is responsible for the effect of that shooting.

In as much as there were NO protestors shooting back, they had the time and the ability to make sure they were shooting correctly.

When you shoot 67 bullets and hit only 12 people with 13 bullets (5 of whom were downrange) that’s pretty sloppy shooting in my book.

The situation didn’t call for random fire, if they are going to shoot in that situation then shoot at the threat. A firearm serves one purpose only, and that is not intimidation. 54 bullets were fired at nothing because the Guardsmen were either to incompetent or didn’t care enough to determine where they were shooting.
In a foreign country suppression fire makes sense. On a college campus in the middle of a friendly city it is the height of incompetence to do so.
I would not blame the Guardsmen were there to be 67 bullets removed from various and sundry protestors, but for them to play games with weapons in friendly territory, regardless of kids with stones and bottles, was completely and totally irresponsible, and 5 people were hit that never should have been.
.
When you use a firearm, you either do it right, or leave it home!

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 9:29 PM

You can and should take such a position when you’re talking about hunting, where you control the environment.

But you can’t be that precise in combat, no matter how much you may demand it. And combat is exactly what they were trained for.

They didn’t have tear gas. They didn’t have rubber bullets. They didn’t have taser guns. They had military weapons.

And these “kids with stones and bottles” were the same age as many of the National Guard that day.

I’m sorry, but the bottom line is that they provoked an attack, then wanted to blame the National Guard for what they did in response to the attack they provoked.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Bullcrap. The Vietnam War was won, the South was beginning to carry most of the burden. Documents later published by the North admitted that they had lost. All the South needed from us were bullets and air support.

The democratics in Congress could not stomach the fact that a Republican president could with the war that a democratic could not, so they cut off all support. Without US materiel, the North reinvaded the South and defeated the South.

The democratic-held Congress lost the war.

Nothing was won. Over 50,000 Americans were killed for nothing. Hundreds of thousands came back with permanent injuries and drug addiction. Show the relatives of the dead what was won. The majority of those fighting didn’t want to be there. Anyone with pull got into the National Guard or got a deferment. Just ask Bill Clinton or George Bush. Same crap with Iraq and Afghanistan. What have we “WON” in either hell hole. This country doesn’t know how to fight a war. War now makes money for those who produce war materials. The problem is that you can’t replace the fallen soldiers. This country can’t even call Fort Hood a terrorist attack. Pathetic. We are finished.

alanstern on May 4, 2013 at 9:27 PM

In the military sense, they won a string of victories that forced North Vietnam to sue for peace. And we were out of the war, with the two exceptions of continued air support and funding.

Many of those in Vietnam were drafted, but many more volunteered. And even of those who were drafted, many of them were willing to serve. Let’s not deprive them of credit by suggesting that all the fighting was done by poorly motivated draftees, which is the liberal myth of Vietnam.

BTW, George W. Bush volunteered to fly a fighter plane in Vietnam, but he didn’t have enough experience at that point to be selected. That doesn’t usually get mentioned because it doesn’t fit the “rich kid using his daddy’s influence” narrative.

tom on May 4, 2013 at 9:47 PM

another group had defied an order to disburse

They were ordered to distribute money?

Or to break up (disperse)?

bgoldman on May 4, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Jaydee007:

They did use their firearms correctly; they killed and wounded those hurling missiles and other cr@p at them.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 10:24 PM

Jaydee007:

They did use their firearms correctly; they killed and wounded those hurling missiles and other cr@p at them.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 10:24 PM

67 bullets fired.

13 hit targets 54 went God knows where.

Of the 13 that hit targets 5 hit Non Involved.

So of the 67 rounds fired 7 hit actual people hurling missiles and other stuff at them.

If you call that using their firearms correctly, I don’t ever want to be around you with a gun in your hand.

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Lots of words, none of them intelligent.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 10:30 PM

Just for the record. I have no wish to quarrel with anyone but the fact that I have somehow pissed off people doesn’t bother me a bit.

Just for the record–not being a lawyer I have no idea whether it’s legal or not–US Army troops have been called for emergency situations–some of them are riots. All a president has to do, apparently, is call an “emergency”. As for legality, there hasn’t been a WAR since 1945. How does that grab you?

1 US Army 101st. Airborne Division was sent into Little Rock during the 1957 school riots–ordered by President Eisenhower.
2 US Army 503rd, Military Police Bn. was ordered by JFK into Oxford, Miss.during the Ole Miss riots of 1962.
3 President Reagan (1987?) sent Army Delta units into the Atlanta Penn to quell Cuban refugee rioters. Atlanta I believe is in Georgia.
There are others as well but these are the three I specifically remember.

As for the National Guard. If the current NG is better than the old NG–all the better. I remember as a draftee being taunted at basic training at Fort Dix, NJ by a National Guard outfit that was on ANACDUTRA (annual active duty training) that was in a barracks nearby. They not only called us “lifers”, had FTA (F the Army) pen written into their block hats, but bragged that “THE JERSEY BLUES HAVE NEVER BEEN CALLED UP FOR OVERSEAS DUTY AND NEVER WILL.” Now I don’t know whether this boast followed reality into the future or not. Perhaps the Jersey Blues distinguished themselves in Iraq. If they did–well done!!!

MaiDee on May 4, 2013 at 11:02 PM

Nipple versus Tit, great.

Coming soon to A&E, “Breast Wars”

Reaps on May 4, 2013 at 11:04 PM

I pefer to remember to remember the truck-bombing of Sterling Hall at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. A father of three, Robert Fassnacht, was murdered. Large parts of the vehicle landed hundreds of yards away.

We’re not policemen, least of all “Officer Friendly”. Put us in front of people bent on the destruction of our country, and bodies are gonna fall. Put yourself in the middle of the crowd of those bent on destruction, and, well, you’ve made a bad choice.

BTW, were any of those Guardsmen ever offered a professorship in the Ivy League?.

M240H on May 4, 2013 at 3:30 PM

^^^^^Bump^^^^^

Thank you. I was just about to look that up and post it because I find it irritating that Jazz did this post without perspective of the day and time.

INC on May 4, 2013 at 11:07 PM

Jaydee007:

They did use their firearms correctly; they killed and wounded those hurling missiles and other cr@p at them.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 10:24 PM

67 bullets fired.

13 hit targets 54 went God knows where.

Of the 13 that hit targets 5 hit Non Involved.

So of the 67 rounds fired 7 hit actual people hurling missiles and other stuff at them.

If you call that using their firearms correctly, I don’t ever want to be around you with a gun in your hand.

Old Country Boy on May 4, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Lots of words, none of them intelligent.

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 10:30 PM

I am not talking about their aim, I am talking about them using the firearms to put down an attacker.
Jaycee: If you pick a fight with men carrying guns I suggest you have one as well. Those hippies wanted a fight and they got one. You can take it up with their CinC, the governor of Ohio at the time.

By the way, I seem to recall an interview in the late ’80′s with the b!tch in that photo. She said many places refused to hire her as they recognized her. Heh, good for them.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 11:14 PM

Nipple versus Tit, great.

Coming soon to A&E, “Breast Wars”

Reaps on May 4, 2013 at 11:04 PM

I’ll bring the nachos and a salad and a few six packs.
Order a few large pizzas and some cheesey bread.
Do you have HD?

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 11:19 PM

Reaps on May 4, 2013 at 11:04 PM

Bet on Tit. Nip’s way too sensitive.

TitularHead on May 4, 2013 at 11:21 PM

I am not talking about their aim, I am talking about them using the firearms to put down an attacker.
Jaycee: If you pick a fight with men carrying guns I suggest you have one as well. Those hippies wanted a fight and they got one. You can take it up with their CinC, the governor of Ohio at the time.

By the way, I seem to recall an interview in the late ’80′s with the b!tch in that photo. She said many places refused to hire her as they recognized her. Heh, good for them.

Bubba Redneck on May 4, 2013 at 11:14 PM

Well, gee, some pineapple grenades would have done the same, would you recommend using those?

jaydee_007 on May 4, 2013 at 11:34 PM

MaiDee on May 4, 2013 at 11:02 PM

Actually, I agree with your experience with the NG in those days. They weren’t referred to as citizen soldiers for nothing. However, posse comitatus merely meant that active duty soldiers (sailors) do not have arresting powers. The NG can ig given them by the governor. I was in High School when Ike(R) intervened in the Little Rock High School integration. I believe (I being young and inattentive at the time) that governor Faubus(D) refused the integration orders of the courts, refused to use the NG to maintain order, and Ike sent in the airborne to maintain order for the federal marshals force the integration of the school (SCOTUS decision). Even today, active federal military cannot make an arrest. The Nave has Coast Guardsmen aboard to make drug interdiction arrests (and maybe pirate arrests). I don’t know about your other anecdotal examples, but I suspect it was something similar.

However, nothing is sacrosanct in this country. Even Lincoln suspended habeus corpus and misused Martial Law. I don’t think that Martial Law is supposed to be declared if there was still a functioning court system. This is all rather esoteric.

Old Country Boy on May 5, 2013 at 1:49 AM

Jazz…..This is THE defining photo of the era……And not a mention as to whom the photographer was (unless I missed it)……BTW…The photog is John Filo and this image won him a Pulitzer.

Calamity Jane on May 5, 2013 at 8:27 AM

Every year on this date, a somber anniversary rolls around which which we would all do well to never forget.

Jazz forgot about the 20th anniversary of Waco. He was too busy writing this post. In crayon.

Akzed on May 5, 2013 at 9:24 AM

…the goal of S.D.S. was to provoke a violent confrontation in which somebody would be hurt, or even worse.

And the most incredible such example took place on April 10, 1970, when Jerry Rubin spoke on the campus at Kent State. Jerry Rubin is a Communist, of course. We can be absolutely sure of that because he has said so repeatedly. In fact he said he was a Communist when your reporter asked him about it at the Democrat National Convention in Miami in 1972. At that Convention Rubin also said that, when he and his Comrades take over, your reporter will be gassed. At Kent State, Communist Jerry Rubin said this: “The first part of the Yippie program is to kill your parents. And I mean that quite literally, because until you’re prepared to kill your parents, you’re not ready to change this country. Our parents are our first oppressors.”

Akzed on May 5, 2013 at 9:27 AM

The photog is John Filo and this image won him a Pulitzer. Calamity Jane on May 5, 2013 at 8:27 AM

And we all know what that’s worth.

Oh, BTW, it was doctored. Rather clumsily too, by today’s standards.

Akzed on May 5, 2013 at 9:31 AM

Jazz forgot about the 20th anniversary of Waco. He was too busy writing this post. In crayon.

Akzed on May 5, 2013 at 9:24 AM

And telling his friend Sh!thead to come troll after he posted it.

The anniversary of a of hippy scum Darwinian themselves after playing at rev-o-lution, or the anniversary of tanks rolling up and giving a group of American citizens men, women, and children the Jewish treatment in broad daylight. And which one does he post? Not to mention with, as several people have already pointed out, a badly-doctored propaganda photo

MelonCollie on May 5, 2013 at 12:36 PM

We’re not policemen, least of all “Officer Friendly”. Put us in front of people bent on the destruction of our country, and bodies are gonna fall. Put yourself in the middle of the crowd of those bent on destruction, and, well, you’ve made a bad choice.

M240H on May 4, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Reposted for summarizing what went wrong in one paragraph, from an insider’s perspective no less.

Want a riot put down? Send in the cops with tear gas and tasers and hippy-knockers. Send in the National Guard, it’s an open statement that things have gone far past law enforcement, and lethal force is pre-authorized the minute they arrive.

MelonCollie on May 5, 2013 at 12:40 PM

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