Second LiveAction video: Abortion survivors like DNR patients

posted at 8:41 am on April 29, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The difference, of course, is that patients usually choose the “Do not resuscitate” order for themselves.  In this Washington DC abortion clinic, a doctor advises an undercover reporter for Live Action that the survival of a “fetus” born alive during an abortion depends on “how vigorously you do things to help a fetus survive at this point,” and then goes on to explain that he doesn’t do anything to determine how he would even proceed to determine a course of treatment.  The magic of the abortion DNR takes him off the hook:

“Hopefully we’ll get this pregnancy out intact, but it doesn’t always happen that way,” Washington, D.C. abortion doctor Cesare Santangelo tells an undercover Live Action investigator who is 24 weeks pregnant.  “I try and sever the umbilical cord first, and we wait for that to stop pulsing, and this way the fetus is expired first.”

When asked by the undercover investigator what would happen if the baby were to survive the abortion, Doctor Santangelo responds:

“Technically – you know, legally we would be obligated to help it, you know, to survive.  But, you know, it probably wouldn’t.  It’s all in how vigorously you do things to help a fetus survive at this point.  Let’s say you went into labor, the membranes ruptured, and you delivered before we got to the termination part of the procedure here, you know?  Then we would do things – we would – we would not help it.  We wouldn’t intubate.  It would be, you know, uh, a person, a terminal person in the hospital, let’s say, that had cancer, you know?  You wouldn’t do any extra procedures to help that person survive.  Like ‘do not resuscitate’ orders.  We would do the same things here.”

If you’re wondering how this is any different from Kermit Gosnell’s practice in Philadelphia, well, you’re not the only one.  The Washington Post’s Melinda Henneberger wonders where the outrage has been for the abortionists who have either remained silent or offered rhetorical support for such practices:

But where’s the coverage of extreme views at the other end of the spectrum? Of, for instance, the jaw-dropping testimony of Planned Parenthood official Alisa LaPolt Snow?When asked by a Florida lawmaker what kind of medical care the organization thinks a child who somehow survives a late-term abortion should get, Snow suggested that even then, the child’s fate is a woman’s right to choose.

That’s how our president voted as an Illinois state senator, too, even after his stated concerns about the “born alive” bill were addressed. Though there is a lot of room for disagreement on when life does begin, most of us think viability is a pretty clear, bright line.

I’ll pause briefly here to disagree with one assumption here.  Scientifically, there is no doubt when individual life begins — it begins at conception, when the human zygote has its own DNA separate from that of the mother or father and begins to experience mitosis. The only controversies on this point are political and philosophical.

More from Henneberger:

Not Planned Parenthood, though, which hasn’t disavowed anything Snow said. And not the Bronx counselor caught on tape, who warns the woman sitting in front of her that no matter what happens, she mustn’t go to the hospital, where if she were to give birth to a live child, that baby might be given medical care.

While in campaign mode, Obama purported to respect diverse views on the abortion issue. But I detected no such sensitivity in his Friday remarks at Planned Parenthood, where he spoke of “those who want to turn back the clock to policies more suited to the 1950s than the 21st century.  And they’ve been involved in an orchestrated and historic effort to roll back basic rights when it comes to women’s health.”

Abortion, he means, though that word wasn’t in his talk.

Of course not, even though abortions are Planned Parenthood’s core business.  Obama couldn’t even bring up the name Kermit Gosnell, not even to distinguish what he did in his charnel house in Philadelphia from what Planned Parenthood and its competitors in the abortion industry do across the country.  And the reason why is that there really isn’t that much difference — which is why the media wanted to ignore the Gosnell trial for as long as they could.

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that patients usually choose the “Do not resuscitate” order for themselves.

Ah, but under Obamacare, no more ordering of this for oneself will be necessary….that will be automatically taken care of for everyone by our government directed care takers as a means of cost savings.

hawkeye54 on April 29, 2013 at 1:47 PM

If an “Orthodox Catholic” later takes a less-firm Doctrinal stand, he/she is then ‘enlightened’. But still always under suspicion by the Left.

I just can’t take liberals and their arguments seriously any more. It used to be for me when dealing with liberals, “I think you’re missing a few details here.” Now, it’s, “Do you seriously believe that?”

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Do as St. Augustine did…Fight them with Logic.

The more doubt you sew…

Most liberals are indoctrinated into a comfortable system to fit in and many can’t see the forest for the trees.

They are emotional as opposed to logical…and Rhetoric and Logic are no longer required learning in schools. This is why dialog is difficult…

Orthodox positions in Christianity have always been counter cultural.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM

when will conservatives realize that this irrational obsession with abortion will continue to lead them down the road of electoral losses?

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 8:53 AM

what’s with your irrational obsession with supporting the killing of innocent people? no really, why does it mean so much to you that they are killed?

Wow. The magnitude of this evil is enormous. Of course, they don’t bother talking about the depression, pain, and anguish that a mother will suffer years later after she’s had an abortion.

ICBMMan on April 29, 2013 at 9:45 AM

because they blame pro-lifers for that. they say that abortion isn’t really something that makes a woman feel upset, pro-lifers guilt-tripping the woman are to blame for a woman who feels upset after an abortion!! if only pro-lifers would shut up, women would feel just fine after abortion!!

the logical twists and turns that abortion supporters use to defend themselves are way beyond bizarre and absurd. it would be hilarious if not for the fact that babies are being killed.

Sachiko on April 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Do as St. Augustine did…Fight them with Logic.

The more doubt you sew…

Most liberals are indoctrinated into a comfortable system to fit in and many can’t see the forest for the trees.

They are emotional as opposed to logical…and Rhetoric and Logic are no longer required learning in schools. This is why dialog is difficult…

Orthodox positions in Christianity have always been counter cultural.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM

But you see, therein lies the rub: Liberals are totally impervious to logic.

They have made themselves that way, by willful choice. We see that here all the time.

Saint Augustine didn’t have to deal with what we do today, those things being technology and politics. Back then, he had the words of his mouth and the character of his works before the people. How can you truly condemn the good works of a man you have seen, and as you have seen about him?

But today, by the Left, everything is political. I can easily picture some modern lib saying, if you read a news article while you were sitting on the john, you think Obama is a sh*t, you racist bast*rd!

That’s how liberals think.

I respect the Saints though I am not Catholic, but they didn’t have to put up with what we do from liberals in this ‘modern’ 21st Century.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Liam, I see your tactic of trying to ‘otherize’ liberals

make them seem foreign, alien, and un-American

that’s a tactic that was used in the 40s and has no place in American discourse today

we must learn to agree to disagree and that we can both be patriotic Americans inspite of our differences

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Do as St. Augustine did…Fight them with Logic.

The more doubt you sew…

Most liberals are indoctrinated into a comfortable system to fit in and many can’t see the forest for the trees.

They are emotional as opposed to logical…and Rhetoric and Logic are no longer required learning in schools. This is why dialog is difficult…

Orthodox positions in Christianity have always been counter cultural.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM

liberals have this idea that whatever they want or like is automatically morally right. just because they want/like something, no one else should be allowed to tell them they can’t have/do it. they have decided that they should be allowed to have it and how dare someone tell them that what they want is wrong!! i think liberals make up their own morally right and wrong. they also make up their own “rights,” too. if they want something, they declare it as a “right.” then they whine and complain if someone doesn’t give it to them or allow them to do that thing.

this is why you can’t use logic to defeat a liberal. they don’t respond to logic. they ignore logic, they just get angry and whine and demand that you give them what they want and they label you as a “hater” or “bigot” if you don’t give it to them. they put the blame on you but it’s really their own selfish, demanding ways that is the problem.

they can’t use logic to support abortion. their twisted-up logic fails in so many ways. they don’t care, though! they will just keep pretending that an unborn child is not a life, because admitting that it he or she is a life is too inconvenient for them.

Sachiko on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

The schools scare the tar out of me. Between the indoctrination and the fact that many graduate with out basic skills (and I don’t think it is by accident)it will be the largest cause of our destruction. My kids are grown and I have no grandchildren but I shouldn’t be out of the game.

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 1:36 PM

and as I talk to my school age children, they marvel at.. “Daddy?.. how do you know these things?”.. like basic American history, about civics, about geography,.. and the things we lived through, the memories burned into stone..

I learned most of it in school, before American patriotism became a liberal slur against fly over America..

The filthy protesters who spit on returning Vietnam vets,.(yes libs, it HAPPENED, too my uncle as he returned with the body of one of his men, killed as an RPG hulled his M-48, leaving my uncle grief stricken and slightly wounded. He had the fortunate fate of being blown clear as he sat on the turret, but always haunted by the slaughter house he reached into to pull his men out.. he just died a few years back,.. and for everything he went through in three tours, he never really left that hole behind him.)

The spitting freaks are now professors, teaching the teachers, and that should scare decent people..

that the left sees this as a progressive change is even more sickening.. They teach our kids to val;ue themselves more than anything, and teach them nothing useful about life, about critical thought, about our own past and all it’s flaws and glories..

They’ll teach about slavery, but not the goodness of a nation which fought it’s bloodiest war to end.. They’ll speak of Lincoln, but never that democrats were the slave party.. something which shocked some kids I spoke with..

There were democrats then?

I thought FDR was the first?

Schools are at best, training centers for the next generation of party loyalists.. but only one party,.. because questioning the president, is now hate speech..

but not when they did it.

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:02 PM

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM

Without the restrictions of compatible cultures that were prominent at one time, I think you will find that you are wrong.

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Do as St. Augustine did…Fight them with Logic.

The more doubt you sew…

Most liberals are indoctrinated into a comfortable system to fit in and many can’t see the forest for the trees.

They are emotional as opposed to logical…and Rhetoric and Logic are no longer required learning in schools. This is why dialog is difficult…

Orthodox positions in Christianity have always been counter cultural.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM

But you see, therein lies the rub: Liberals are totally impervious to logic.

They have made themselves that way, by willful choice. We see that here all the time.

Saint Augustine didn’t have to deal with what we do today, those things being technology and politics. Back then, he had the words of his mouth and the character of his works before the people. How can you truly condemn the good works of a man you have seen, and as you have seen about him?

But today, by the Left, everything is political. I can easily picture some modern lib saying, if you read a news article while you were sitting on the john, you think Obama is a sh*t, you racist bast*rd!

That’s how liberals think.

I respect the Saints though I am not Catholic, but they didn’t have to put up with what we do from liberals in this ‘modern’ 21st Century.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 1:58 PM

St. Augustine dealt exactly with the same issues we do today…as did the Apostles and Martyrs in the Pagan world.

This is an issue of Paganism.

Paganism subverts the value and dignity of individual lives to define their utilitarian value toward the State.

Paganism defines rights as handed down from the State.

St. Augustine used his gifts of Logic and Rhetoric to argue and persuade.

Conservatives must continue to use the same tools and these tools are often their strength because they follow the arguments and repeat the practice.

Logic and Faith are not incompatible as St. Augustine confirmed.

Conscience always appeals to both reason and emotion…and the Liberals have consciences as they repeatedly remind us.

Fortitude is a virtue conservatives need to continue the fight.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Liam, I see your tactic of trying to ‘otherize’ liberals

make them seem foreign, alien, and un-American

that’s a tactic that was used in the 40s and has no place in American discourse today

we must learn to agree to disagree and that we can both be patriotic Americans inspite of our differences

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Spare me the trite succinct terms you like to use. Liberals think only in terms of slogans and in the narrowest of definitions.

Well, liberals — you trolls — have defined yourselves by your own words here. I don’t need ‘tactics’ to make my case about liberals. They are their own case to my point.

Do you feel ‘otherized’? Well…around here, you are. YOU alone made yourself unpopular, an aberration, by the things YOU have posted. You could have stopped nagging and needling at any time; you could have simply shut up. But you didn’t, did you?

And now you feel ‘otherized’ because of your own trash among people you disdain and basically reject from the get-go?

Pffft!

You seek ‘relevence’ here, some kind of value despite the posts you have made. You are a horrid person, as you have shown time and times again, yet you think we should just let that all go to ‘favor’ you?

We owe you nothing, all of which is based on your own posts. It’s not like you are misunderstood, having written something ambiguous that bears further discussion to get clear you and your point.

Nope, not at all.

We have YOU as you are and have presented yourself.

I see no else beside that.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Fortitude is a virtue conservatives need to continue the fight.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:11 PM

I see your point, and can’t argue.

Now to indulge my former liberalism: “But I don’t wanna!”

;-)

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 1:58 PM

lol that is the point i made too. i keep trying to use logic to argue with liberals but it doesn’t work.

Liam, I see your tactic of trying to ‘otherize’ liberals

make them seem foreign, alien, and un-American

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

actually they make themselves seem foreign, alien, and un-american. i wish liberals would all move to europe or start their own country somewhere instead of trying so hard to change america into something more liberal. no, instead, they take this country and try to mold it into some progressive utopia that it was never intended to be.

Sachiko on April 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM

nonpartisan is a walking talking biblical definition of a fool come to life. unbelievable.

tom daschle concerned on April 29, 2013 at 2:18 PM

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Further, to ‘give you a break’ as you demand is to make you feel validated.

From me, that’s not going to happen, either. That’s YOUR tactic; you desire relevance.

I see you as no such sort worthy of it.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:19 PM

lol that is the point i made too. i keep trying to use logic to argue with liberals but it doesn’t work.

Sachiko on April 29, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Liberals are dain bread.

Poo much tot.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:21 PM

We have YOU as you are and have presented yourself.

I see no else beside that.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:12 PM

I have presented myself as an individual with my own thoughts, I belong to no party

I have shared my liberal beliefs, as well as my conservative leanings (for example, Im anti affirmative action, anti-illegal immigration, anti-entitlements, pro death penalty, pro torture, pro-police profiling, etc)

yet you and your ilk choose to ignore my conservative beliefs, and mock my name, and call me a ‘lib’

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Fortitude is a virtue conservatives need to continue the fight.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:11 PM

I see your point, and can’t argue.

Now to indulge my former liberalism: “But I don’t wanna!”

;-)

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I know…

Why do I cling to St. Augustine?

Because he was a flawed and confused Liberal who was converted through the Grace of God to become one of God’s most ardent and brave warriors for Righteousness.

St. Augustine is the perfect saint to throw at them…He was one of them.

St. Francis is also a good saint to throw at them…He was a radical reformer.

Liberals avoid that which makes them humble…because Humility is painful.

Suffering is the conduit to God…Constructive suffering and we are all of us bound by our humanity to suffer.

The suffering can either be constructive to the spirit…or cynicism leads us to despair and away from God and what is written in our hearts by him.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:02 PM

When there is only one correct opinion, you know everyone is in trouble.

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM

I have presented myself as an individual with my own thoughts, I belong to no party

I have shared my liberal beliefs, as well as my conservative leanings (for example, Im anti affirmative action, anti-illegal immigration, anti-entitlements, pro death penalty, pro torture, pro-police profiling, etc)

yet you and your ilk choose to ignore my conservative beliefs, and mock my name, and call me a ‘lib’

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Yeah, but…In the end, you have yourself to be a horrible person. You never grieved with us the day of Sandy Hook. Instead, you carped (your term)/nagged (my term) about you liberals getting our guns. That’s all that mattered to you: your ego and your liberalism.

Your liberalism is what defines you. You attack us all the time. Ever try coming in here, on a thread, with a new tack? How about your first post on a thread being, “Hi, everyone!”

Entry posts of, “No wonder you Conservatives lose elections with your fixation on abortion,” is NOT a conversation-starter.

Who taught you your manners — your precious Obama?

You’d have done better learning from a mule.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Liam, I see your tactic of trying to ‘otherize’ liberals

make them seem foreign, alien, and un-American

that’s a tactic that was used in the 40s and has no place in American discourse today

we must learn to agree to disagree and that we can both be patriotic Americans inspite of our differences

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

The National Press Club in Washington DC was the scene of an historic event, August 4, 2010. For the first time in U.S. history, black conservative leaders from across America gathered for a national press conference. Their purpose was three fold. One, to rebuke the NAACP’s resolution accusing the tea parties of being racist. Two, to introduce themselves to America. Three, to dispel the myth that black conservatives are as rare as Bigfoot sightings.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2567461/posts

Obama shrugs off supporters’ sexual insults of GOP women, bemoans Rush’s rhetoric

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/06/obama-shrugs-off-supporters-sexual-insults-of-gop-women-bemoans-rushs-rhetoric/#ixzz2RsSrD4qQ

Sources: Joe Biden likened tea partiers to terrorists

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) called it a “Satan sandwich,” and Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) called seemed to enjoy the heat analogy, saying: “the Tea Partiers and the GOP have made their slash and burn lunacy clear, and while I do not love this compromise, my vote is a hose to stop the burning. The arsonists must be stopped.

Biden told Democratic lawmakers that the deal would take away the tea party’s “weapon of mass destruction” — the threat of a default on U.S. debt obligations.

“They have no compunction about blowing up the economy to get what they want,” Doyle told POLITICO after the meeting.

Real Time with Bill Maher returned to “Teabagger”-baiting with a renewed gusto. Besides returning to the free and frequent use of the Liptonian metaphor, Real Time panelist Rob Reiner deployed a guest bogeyman that’s also popular with the Tea Party: Hitler.

While much has (rightly) been made of Tea Partiers fearmongering President Obama as Hitler, that didn’t stop Reiner from speculating that the Tea Party could easily spawn the next Hitler.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rob-reiner-compares-tea-party-to-hitler-on-bill-mahers-real-time/

You were saying?

that’s a tactic that was used in the 40s and has no place in American discourse today

we must learn to agree to disagree and that we can both be patriotic Americans inspite of our differences

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

go ta Hell…

* years of Chimpy McBushitler..

and the 4 years of Obama sycophants comparing us to Nazi’s..

and how often did you smile..

or call the out on their bald faced “otherize” of the right?

ever?

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:30 PM

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM

Not being Catholic, I don’t know the many varied virtues of the Saints. But I respect them.

I always, in my limited knowledge, like Saint Francis. He was the one who loved animals, right? Kinda my thing, which is why I won’t hunt though I consider it a valid sport long as the hunter kulls for food and not the ‘thrill of the hunt’. I could that with a good camera.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:34 PM

yet you and your ilk choose to ignore my conservative beliefs, and mock my name, and call me a ‘lib’

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

I’m pretty sure no one’s mocking your name.

They’re mocking you.

bigmacdaddy on April 29, 2013 at 2:34 PM

I’m pretty sure no one’s mocking your name.

They’re mocking you.

bigmacdaddy on April 29, 2013 at 2:34 PM

No, we’re mocking his name, too.

It’s a lie.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:36 PM

I have presented myself as an individual with my own thought

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

You’re not an individual. You’re a textbook, cookie-cutter liberal.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:41 PM

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

You cannot denigrate conservative people and their beliefs and seriously think to be seen as nonpartisan. There are plenty of conservative people on this site who have disagreed with each other from time to time but neither side has had our bona fides questioned because we don’t belittle the others’ beliefs. I think what you do is called a tell and you are not nonpartisan.

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Hmmmmm, is claiming victimhood another liberal tell?

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Liam, I see your tactic of trying to ‘otherize’ liberals

make them seem foreign, alien, and un-American

have you ever been to HuffPo?

Demonizing of the conservatives is their ONLY argument.. and they use pretty foul comparisons..

that’s a tactic that was used in the 40s and has no place in American discourse today

and when Joe Biden called us terrorists for merely opposing the democrat party… where were you then with your concerns?

we must learn to agree to disagree and that we can both be patriotic Americans inspite of our differences

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

all well and good, until Obama calls us cowards who love dead children for opposing him on his blatant lies and posing with the families as props.. ignoring there were a lot of parents who disagreed with his plan.

The left has been shameless making us the demons who must be silenced with the pop culture media rah rah cheer leading him on.. The left is a gaggle of venal petty little minds who hate just to hate..

and they have been getting worse over the decades..

but you demand we play nice, while being called Nazi’s by Pelosi.. by damn near every major democrat..

post a link here where you call them to task, on their home turf, then we’ll talk.

Saying anything negative about them here is worse than useless, only their trolls come here, the rest stay in their echo chamber dreaming of silencing those nasty dissidents to liberal glory..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM

Not being Catholic, I don’t know the many varied virtues of the Saints. But I respect them.

I always, in my limited knowledge, like Saint Francis. He was the one who loved animals, right? Kinda my thing, which is why I won’t hunt though I consider it a valid sport long as the hunter kulls for food and not the ‘thrill of the hunt’. I could that with a good camera.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:34 PM

The Saints are not just for Catholics…They are family who teach us through example and through the gifts each has thet they used in the service of God and their fellows.

You would probably enjoy reading St. Augustine because his command of Aristotelian Logic was exemplary.

He re-defined the standard of the debate.

His Confessions are profound and good reading as they are honest about the human condition.

His doctrine of Just War is profound in it’s far reaching influence as to the proper response to Evil.

I heartily encourage you to read him…

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

You cannot denigrate conservative people and their beliefs and seriously think to be seen as nonpartisan. There are plenty of conservative people on this site who have disagreed with each other from time to time but neither side has had our bona fides questioned because we don’t belittle the others’ beliefs. I think what you do is called a tell and you are not nonpartisan.

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 2:41 PM

He seeks credence here, denying being liberal while at the same time requiring he be accepted as such.

To accept him with open arms without debate is to validate him, to validate liberalism.

Not going to happen from me, that’s for sure.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM

yet you and your ilk choose to ignore my conservative beliefs, and mock my name, and call me a ‘lib’

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

which are?

I read your posts, haven’t seen anything yet but rank liberal partisanship.. so tell us, what conservative views, I’m just dying to know..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:45 PM

I always, in my limited knowledge, like Saint Francis. He was the one who loved animals, right? Kinda my thing, which is why I won’t hunt though I consider it a valid sport long as the hunter kulls for food and not the ‘thrill of the hunt’. I could that with a good camera.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Saint Francis loved Life in all it’s forms as creations of God. It was his exuberance toward God and Life that converted many.

He also trekked twice to the Middle East to convert the Muslims during the Crusades and Saladin’s son had him as a guest for a few weeks…St. Francis was fearless!

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:48 PM

I heartily encourage you to read him…

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

I will be out to do that, then. Thank you!

The Saints do fascinate me, having created many Orders. Their piety advanced the Lord’s intentions.

If only to have once such of them today! I would love to see a new Saint, or a new Prophet from Israel, go before Obama and say, “Know the Lord thy God!”

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:50 PM

and

ilk?

That isn’t demonizing?

The only time leftists use that word is to liken us to something hateful, alien, other..

but you have a clue about the tell in that sentence do you, whining about Liam, then using buzzwords to do what you complain about to him..

I have had heated disagreements here with other conservatives, with libertarians, but we ultimately all love this country, flaws and all.. we do strive for improvement..

you strive to destroy and recreate in the graven image of the most hatefully partisan divisive president in history.

You want civility,..

Try telling Obama to lay off p*ssing on half the country and calling our representatives terrorists, tell his campaign to stop calling our people felons, tax cheats and killing steel workers wife’s with cancer..

The smallest pr*ck president, cannot stop being a nasty hateful spreader of lies and bovine excrement..

and you’re here telling US to be nice?

the irony is weapons grade..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:55 PM

the irony is weapons grade..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 2:55 PM

nonpartisan is a weak example of liberalism, so bad that not even high-school Democrats would send him out to be their spokesperson. HE is just that bad!

Deep inside, he knows he’s a failure to his own. So, he tries getting from those he hates somehow validated. He really needs it right now, like a screaming brat wants her Sippy Cup.

Then she’ll throw it on the floor.

And we’ll all be back to square-one with nonpartisan. And he won’t change a thing.

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 3:01 PM

Saint Francis loved Life in all it’s forms as creations of God. It was his exuberance toward God and Life that converted many.

He also trekked twice to the Middle East to convert the Muslims during the Crusades and Saladin’s son had him as a guest for a few weeks…St. Francis was fearless!

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:48 PM

saw the movie about him.. did Saladin really ask him to walk on burning coals to prove his faith?.. while Saladin’s own muslim clerics quaked in fear and refused?

That movie about him, inspired me greatly as a child, the rich man who gave away all he owned, even his clothes to live the chaste life of poverty and compassion with the weakest, poorest..

I always remembered that scene as he was criticized for giving away everything, but isn’t that the way of Christ? He didn’t draw his sword and rob for the poor, while living well..

He gave of himself.. his entire self, freely, without greed or envy..

That in my mind is the best of Christianity..

and why the new Pope gives me hope for a grand revival of the people of the word..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 3:03 PM

I heartily encourage you to read him…

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:42 PM

I will be out to do that, then. Thank you!

The Saints do fascinate me, having created many Orders. Their piety advanced the Lord’s intentions.

If only to have once such of them today! I would love to see a new Saint, or a new Prophet from Israel, go before Obama and say, “Know the Lord thy God!”

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:50 PM

There are Saints amongst us…and they will continue to be until the end.

God uses Saints for his cause and his cause is Us and our salvation…God uses the willing and rewards them for their suffering here and in heaven.

God will even use Evil in his cause for Us…St. Paul says we look through the glass darkly.

Everybody wins…except those that choose Evil and do not repent before death…Hell is Real and it is forever.

Human beings are under constant assault through temptation…But we are also given Hope through redemption if we choose and act on that choice once we recognize the Grace that is from the Creator.

It is God who is the source of Grace not Man and to recognize that is humbling…but the source of what people crave which is happiness which comes from the right relation of Man to God and Man to his neighbor.

Abortion is infanticide…the destruction of early human life and as such is an injustice.

It is an injustice to God and Humanity…It defies the Natural Law.

God has given us Natural Law…and eventually a country (Our country) with a Constitution that protects it.

Conservatives must continue to educate.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 3:12 PM

saw the movie about him.. did Saladin really ask him to walk on burning coals to prove his faith?.. while Saladin’s own muslim clerics quaked in fear and refused?

That movie about him, inspired me greatly as a child, the rich man who gave away all he owned, even his clothes to live the chaste life of poverty and compassion with the weakest, poorest..

I always remembered that scene as he was criticized for giving away everything, but isn’t that the way of Christ? He didn’t draw his sword and rob for the poor, while living well..

He gave of himself.. his entire self, freely, without greed or envy..

That in my mind is the best of Christianity..

and why the new Pope gives me hope for a grand revival of the people of the word..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 3:03 PM

It was Saladin’s nephew (my mistake) He was the Sultan of Egypt and he was the Law.

Yes…St. Francis was prepared to walk through fire for his faith. The Sultans clerics had no such faith.

This is why the Sultan did not kill the infidel St. Francis and in fact dialoged with him for a few weeks.

St. Francis was quite a fellow.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Why do people of no ilk worry about others ilks winning elections?

Cindy Munford on April 29, 2013 at 3:28 PM

“those who want to turn back the clock to policies more suited to the 1950s than the 21st century. And they’ve been involved in an orchestrated and historic effort to roll back basic rights when it comes to women’s health.”

So maybe our president could explain why killing babies is more appropriate now than in the 50s…..

There Goes the Neighborhood on April 29, 2013 at 3:32 PM

If only to have once such of them today! I would love to see a new Saint, or a new Prophet from Israel, go before Obama and say, “Know the Lord thy God!”

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 2:50 PM

That job has been delegated to us, Christ’s followers:

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” 9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

18 and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19 When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20 For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

AZfederalist on April 29, 2013 at 3:33 PM

I found this to be very interesting. The notion of DNR. A DNR frame shifts the conversation.

DNRs are used when? In terminal cases, normally with much thought…they are end-of-life planning. It is common to have a DNR for older, very sick people. For younger people, pulling the plug and DNR is filled with grief…endless grief

But here not so much. The mother is happy with a DNR. Let that soak in the Mother is happy with a DNR. They are happy their baby won’t live. Please, whatever you do, DNR.

Celebrations of mothers being happy to pull the plug on their babies are the stuff of the Left…of the Barry (don’t make me blush) Left.

Loving to chop those babies up…and, if things go poorly, whatever you do, DNR.

Abortions have been with us forever…it is the Celebration that is new.

r keller on April 29, 2013 at 3:38 PM

when will conservatives realize that this irrational obsession with abortion will continue to lead them down the road of electoral losses?

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 8:53 AM

When will liberals realize that their irrational obsession with abortion will continue to lead them down the road all soul-less, mind-numbingly stupid, abjectly evil like-minded f*cks have travelled in history?

You’re in great company, you piece of sh1t.

This is the sum-total of your morality, is it? That infanticide is only bad because… it might impact elections one way or the other?

Holy f*ck, you’re a worthless inhuman cretin.

Midas on April 29, 2013 at 3:39 PM

I always remembered that scene as he was criticized for giving away everything, but isn’t that the way of Christ? He didn’t draw his sword and rob for the poor, while living well..

He gave of himself.. his entire self, freely, without greed or envy..

That in my mind is the best of Christianity..

and why the new Pope gives me hope for a grand revival of the people of the word..

mark81150 on April 29, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Agreed.

The way of Christ is to Trust and Revere God with all of ourselves each day and to reflect this by Loving our neighbor.

To place nothing higher than God and to see God’s reflection in our neighbors.

God uses Wealthy people for his cause…just as he uses the Poor.

Wealth like anything else comes either through God’s grace or through the cynical efforts of Man’s pride that excludes God.

If the wealthy are devoted to God…They willingly use their wealth responsibly as God directs and in Charity. Like the Pagan Centurion who believed Christ already healed his servant based on Christ’s willingness to heal and the Centurion in humility needed no further assurance…In Catholic tradition this same Pagan Centurion opened his house and his wealth to followers of Christ.

St. Francis responded to his call from God and it is his joy of response that God used to convert others to follow Jesus…It is the Joy of these saints that God brings forth.

Even an old crank like St. Jerome was Joyful in his service.

It is the Joy of these Saints that help me combat my natural tendency toward cynicism…

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 3:43 PM

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

F*ck you; you get no civility – and it’s in return for your own lack of same, you bastard. And this is more civility than you deserve.

Midas on April 29, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Most liberals are indoctrinated into a comfortable system to fit in and many can’t see the forest for the trees.
They are emotional as opposed to logical…and Rhetoric and Logic are no longer required learning in schools. This is why dialog is difficult…
workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Logic and Faith are not incompatible as St. Augustine confirmed.
Conscience always appeals to both reason and emotion…and the Liberals have consciences as they repeatedly remind us.
workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Well said. It will take an Augustine. As a protestant, I recognize many protestant churches focus on seeking miracles. This proves to liberals the unfairness of God. I feel the Catholic understanding more clearly expounds on what the Bible affirms:

Liberals avoid that which makes them humble…because Humility is painful.

Suffering is the conduit to God…Constructive suffering and we are all of us bound by our humanity to suffer.
The suffering can either be constructive to the spirit…or cynicism leads us to despair and away from God and what is written in our hearts by him.
workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 2:25 PM

If Liberals were god, everyone would get a free phone. Therfore, there is no God

St Patrick was a slave, and lived with pigs. His pagan masters could not understand his joy, which came from his reality: that God was real, and His promises were true. This believing Saint converted Ireland, and his converts brought the faith back to Europe, after Europe reverted to paganism. Patrick was mocked and reviled, but he won generations

Each battle is generational. So it never ends

I believe ground has been gained in saving the babies. We are not here to avoid suffering, we are here to fight against it for the love of God.

entagor on April 29, 2013 at 3:54 PM

If Liberals were god, everyone would get a free phone. Therfore, there is no God

St Patrick was a slave, and lived with pigs. His pagan masters could not understand his joy, which came from his reality: that God was real, and His promises were true. This believing Saint converted Ireland, and his converts brought the faith back to Europe, after Europe reverted to paganism. Patrick was mocked and reviled, but he won generations

Each battle is generational. So it never ends

I believe ground has been gained in saving the babies. We are not here to avoid suffering, we are here to fight against it for the love of God.

entagor on April 29, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Yeah.

I read yesterday that in India more people have access to phones then they do to decent and safe plumbing.

In fact this is killing them.

St. Patrick is one of my favorites…can’t imagine living Christian Joy in Pagan slavery chained in a pig pen…

I always liked the story of his banishing Satan from the devil’s bit.

“The stories of St. Patrick and the Rock of Cashel are many. The rock was said to have been dropped by the devil when he saw St. Patrick founding a church on the site. This is also where St. Patrick was said to have picked a shamrock and used it to explain the Trinity. It was also here that the king of Munster was converted to Christianity. During the conversion Patrick apparently stabbed the king in the foot with his crozier. The king, believing the pain to be initiation, said nothing…”

Read more: http://attractions.uptake.com/blog/st-patrick-ireland-landmarks-9671.html#ixzz2Rt9lpYHL

One quality besides Faith these saints share is fortitude…and perhaps a sense of humor?

workingclass artist on April 29, 2013 at 5:05 PM

‘lib’

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Nuff said.

CW on April 29, 2013 at 6:23 PM

I have presented myself as an individual with my own thoughts, I belong to no party

I have shared my liberal beliefs, as well as my conservative leanings (for example, Im anti affirmative action, anti-illegal immigration, anti-entitlements, pro death penalty, pro torture, pro-police profiling, etc)

yet you and your ilk choose to ignore my conservative beliefs, and mock my name, and call me a ‘lib’

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM

you can call a pile of sh*t a stain on the carpet but….it still smells like a pile of sh*t.
run away screaming now.

dmacleo on April 29, 2013 at 6:24 PM

you can call a pile of sh*t a stain on the carpet but….it still smells like a pile of sh*t.
run away screaming now.

dmacleo on April 29, 2013 at 6:24 PM

98% of partisan’s posts support liberal ideas and she wonders why everyone thinks she is a liberal. Doh!

CW on April 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Let me get this straight: the people exposing the evil people killing babies are really the ones that are evil…Hmmmm…I think I saw something somewhere is when they call evil good and good evil……..Christ died for even you liberals…repent from your baby killing ways because He will return and you will have to fess up and if you do not repent, I truly hope you like the smell of sulpher and perpetual darkness…you will be able to hear the perpetual screams….it will be too late…..

crosshugger on April 29, 2013 at 6:56 PM

98% of partisan’s posts support liberal ideas and she wonders why everyone thinks she is a liberal. Doh!

CW on April 29, 2013 at 6:27 PM

yeah I noticed it said it has liberal beliefs and conservative leanings…well to most a belief outweighs a lean.
unless you’re a pile of sh*t that is :)

dmacleo on April 29, 2013 at 7:00 PM

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 8:53 AM

When will liberals realize that their irrational obsession with abortion will continue to lead them down the road all soul-less, mind-numbingly stupid, abjectly evil like-minded f*cks have travelled in history?

You’re in great company, you piece of sh1t.

This is the sum-total of your morality, is it? That infanticide is only bad because… it might impact elections one way or the other?

Holy f*ck, you’re a worthless inhuman cretin.

Midas on April 29, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Nicely said Midas.

CW on April 29, 2013 at 8:02 PM

When asked by the undercover investigator what would happen if the baby were to survive the abortion, Doctor Santangelo responds:

“Technically – you know, legally we would be obligated to help it, you know, to survive. But, you know, it probably wouldn’t. It’s all in how vigorously you do things to help a fetus survive at this point. Let’s say you went into labor, the membranes ruptured, and you delivered before we got to the termination part of the procedure here, you know? Then we would do things – we would – we would not help it. We wouldn’t intubate. It would be, you know, uh, a person, a terminal person in the hospital, let’s say, that had cancer, you know? You wouldn’t do any extra procedures to help that person survive. Like ‘do not resuscitate’ orders. We would do the same things here.”

.
The difference, of course, is that patients usually choose the “Do not resuscitate” order for themselves. In this Washington DC abortion clinic, a doctor advises an undercover reporter for Live Action that the survival of a “fetus” born alive during an abortion depends on “how vigorously you do things to help a fetus survive at this point,” and then goes on to explain that he doesn’t do anything to determine how he would even proceed to determine a course of treatment. The magic of the abortion DNR takes him off the hook.

Ed Morrisey

.
“The value of newly conceived human life in a woman’s womb, is whatever
the pregnant woman places on it.”

quote by (every person who enjoys using sex for hedonistic pleasure, and all those in favor of Agenda 21)
.

“These clinics should be shut down,” (Lila) Rose said, “and the doctors and clinic staff engaging in these inhuman and illegal practices should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. This is infanticide, and these babies born alive but left to die deserve justice, and our care and compassion.”

.
Thank you for your service, Lila. May God continue to bless and protect you.

listens2glenn on April 29, 2013 at 8:24 PM

The new Eugenics? My take.

kingsjester on April 30, 2013 at 6:44 AM

Liam on April 29, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Liam, I see your tactic of trying to ‘otherize’ liberals

make them seem foreign, alien, and un-American

that’s a tactic that was used in the 40s and has no place in American discourse today

we must learn to agree to disagree and that we can both be patriotic Americans inspite of our differences

nonpartisan on April 29, 2013 at 2:01 PM

You are the stuff that comes out of a geese after it’s gorged itself on plant and animal matter. There’s nothing “patriotic” about you and your ilk. You kill babies, teach dependency on government and group think thereby marginalizing whole groups of our society.

You steal time, treasure and blood from the American people so that you can maintain your power and way of living. You produce nothing of any material substance and when you are your ilk are gone the only mark you leave is a millions of pages or regulations and rules. The next generations get to pay you debt and inherit a country greatly weakened economically and morally.

acyl72 on April 30, 2013 at 7:16 AM

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