FBI: Tsarnaev bombs showed “additional training or expertise”

posted at 11:31 am on April 27, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The media theory over the last several days about the Boston Marathon bombing is that the pressure-cooker design came straight off the Internet and didn’t require any specific training.  That assumption ignores a couple of key points even if the bomb design matched those readily available on jihadi websites, such as practice and testing, of which so far the FBI has found no evidence in the US.  Second, any deviation from those designs would entirely negate that kind of “lone wolf” scenario — and according to the Wall Street Journal, the FBI now believes that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had to have received assistance and/or training for the designs he used:

A Federal Bureau of Investigation analysis of the bombs used in the Boston Marathon attacks has concluded that makers of the devices had some knowledge beyond the step-by-step recipes already described by the surviving suspect in the attack.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has told interrogators that he and his brother used bomb-making instructions found in Inspire, an online al Qaeda magazine, according to federal officials. His brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the other accused bomber, was killed during a gunfight with police in Watertown, Mass.

The FBI’s bomb experts analyzed remnants of both bombs that exploded on April 15 near the marathon’s finish line, as well as additional explosive devices that authorities said were recovered after the encounter with the suspects early on April 19.

Their early conclusion is that the bomb makers likely had additional training or expertise, in part because they deviated from two recipes in Inspire, according to a report prepared by the Terrorist Explosive Device Analytical Center and law-enforcement officials briefed on the investigation.

The analysis also determined that the explosives used were “consistent with commercial fireworks,” said the report, which was reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. Officials cautioned that the analysis was preliminary.

Boston PD found a cache of discarded fireworks on Wednesday night, many with the gunpowder removed.  That would connect with the design of the bomb, although investigators have yet to link the find directly to the Tsarnaevs — yet, anyway.

This does, however, point up the importance of finding what the Tsarnaevs preferred to throw away.  With one of the bombing suspects dead and the other in a prison hospital facility, investigators of the Boston Marathon terrorist attack have access to the possessions of the two Tsarnaevs. What about those items that left their possession just before the bombing? CBS News’ John Miller updated viewers on the investigation and reported that FBI agents are now searching for laptops that the two brothers discarded shortly before conducting their attack:

FBI agents picked through a landfill near the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth, where 19-year-old suspect, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was a sophomore.

On “CBS This Morning: Saturday,” CBS News senior correspondent John Miller, a former assistant FBI director, reports the agents were looking for a couple of laptop computers that belonged to the suspects.

“One of the things in these terrorism cases, particularly, Margaret, where the issue is how did a process of radicalization occur, a lot of that occurs online,” Miller told CBS News correspondent Margaret Brennan, “particularly where they want to know was anyone else involved, was there a mastermind, was he communicating with someone overseas about it.”

Miller reports that investigators believe those answers are likely to be found in the computers.

“They believe that what they learned from the brother was that the computer was tossed just before the bombing mission, probably to conceal all that, so they’d really like to get it back,” Miller said.

Earlier, we noted the FBI’s landfill search, which was reported in the context of looking for staging areas for bomb tests. This adds another level of interest in landfills, but the FBI will need a lot of luck in finding evidence in either effort. The search began, apparently, when Dzhokhar admitted discarding the laptops, and presumably they have a good idea where that took place. Still, actually finding the laptops would still be a challenge, and it’s at least a good possibility that the two were technically adept enough to destroy the hard drives before discarding the computers.

Speaking of technology, it’s not just discarded physical assets that investigators want to find. The FBI has found the little-known Instagram account of Dzhokhar, and preliminary information shows that he was very interested in a dead Chechen warlord and terrorist leader:

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s Twitter account and VK Russian social networking profile have drawn heavy public scrutiny, but he left another, more hidden social media trail: a deleted Instagram account that sources close to him tell CNN once belonged to the accused Boston bomber.

The Instagram account, with the user name “jmaister1,” no longer exists, and friends of Tsarnaev say it was deleted only recently. An Instagram spokesman declined to comment on the account or disclose when the account was deleted.

CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem says the account could be significant.

“If I were an investigator right now, obviously the platform he deleted matters the most,” she said.

Indeed. The last activity they have found (so far) before Dzhokhar deleted the account took place on April 10th, when “jmaister1″ liked a picture and profile of Shamil Basayev, a long-dead Chechen warlord and terrorist.  Among other items on Basayev’s resumé is the Beslan massacre, in which more than 380 people were killed, most of them schoolchildren, and hundreds more wounded.  Basayev financed and organized the terrorist attack, later bragging that it had only cost him 8,000 rubles for the whole operation.  Russians put a $10 million bounty on Basayev’s head; he later died when a mine he was inspecting detonated unexpectedly.  The FSB insinuated that they had a hand in the detonation.

As Kayyem correctly points out, the fact that Dzhokhar had an Instagram account is interesting, and his “like” of Basayev intriguing.  Far more interesting is what they haven’t found — and why Dzhokhar went out of his way between April 10th and April 14th to delete the account.  Finding their discards might end up being the quickest path to understanding the true nature of the bombers and the bombing.

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Life without parole
Strip him of fraudulently gotten US citizenship
Let Russia house him in prison near Beslan

I’m sure the FSB will get everything he knows. And they won’t bother with Miranda rights.

rbj on April 27, 2013 at 11:38 AM

Well spotted, FBI!

vityas on April 27, 2013 at 11:41 AM

So…

Is the Obama Administration going to publicly label this Islamic jihadi terrorism?

Or will it merely be seen as sports related violence. [You know, like a beer-induced riot at Bristol when the NASCAR fans run out of Bud Lite.]

And we can dispense with the “lone wolves” nonsense?

If Obama would have been around in December ’41, he’d be trying to tell us that it wasn’t Japan that attacked us, it was merely a rogue element of the Imperial Japanese armed forces…but Japan wasn’t responsible.

Putz.

coldwarrior on April 27, 2013 at 11:45 AM

“One of the things in these terrorism cases, particularly, Margaret, where the issue is how did a process of radicalization occur, a lot of that occurs online,” Miller told CBS News correspondent Margaret Brennan, “particularly where they want to know was anyone else involved, was there a mastermind, was he communicating with someone overseas about it.”

Never fear…..Hollywood has the answer.

Bozell Column: Hollywood and Post-Boston ‘Xenophobia’

Rovin on April 27, 2013 at 11:45 AM

I still believe these guys acted alone and the finger pointing is just conspiracy moonbattery or bleeding hearts attempting to defect blame. Again, this is a capital case. And Steyn is right: anybody associated with Chechnya or has Chechyna rebel sympathies should be barred from this country.

Blake on April 27, 2013 at 11:52 AM

Let’s hope the FBI rounds up all the jerks who “liked” that video.

PattyJ on April 27, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Blake on April 27, 2013 at 11:52 AM

So, in effect, you are saying this Boston bombing was merely the act of a Chechen separatist, a mere Chechen nationalist, and not part of any Islamic-based and approved jihad?

So, we bar Chechen rebels from coming to the US.

How do you (or Steyn) propose we do that? All Chechens? How about Dagestanis? The Ingush? Identified by their family name or patronimic? Place of birth? Or by what, exactly?

Why not just say it is jihad?

Seems to be the most common denominator of attacks on US persons since 9-11.

Or do we have to buy into that “religion of peace” nonsense?

Just curious.

coldwarrior on April 27, 2013 at 12:01 PM

I’m sorry but the making of the bomb has a lot of gray area. Maybe they learned some stuff from online sites, maybe they had a friend who has a egineering degree, I don’t know but the thing that screams “lone wolf” to me is the fact they had no larger plans for what to do after the bombing. A professional would have provided money, a get away plan, instructed them to avoid cameras and wear disguses, etc. This seems way too elementry to be part of some skilled terrorist organization.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Imagine a world without mohammedianism.

tom daschle concerned on April 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM

They only needed the basic concept. Trigger concepts can be tested sans large detonation. On the technical points I don’t find merit. Suspect 2 was a med student. not dumb. My problem with them acting alone is with finance.

Fancy cars and no jobs. Follow the money.

The “inspire” website isn’t all that’s out there. Google “primitive detonation trigger”, or some such language. You’ll get all the info you want.

Maybe he was trained, but it’s not a prerequisite.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM

So, in effect, you are saying this Boston bombing was merely the act of a Chechen separatist, a mere Chechen nationalist, and not part of any Islamic-based and approved jihad?

So, we bar Chechen rebels from coming to the US.

How do you (or Steyn) propose we do that? All Chechens? How about Dagestanis? The Ingush? Identified by their family name or patronimic? Place of birth? Or by what, exactly?

Why not just say it is jihad?

Seems to be the most common denominator of attacks on US persons since 9-11.

Or do we have to buy into that “religion of peace” nonsense?

Just curious.

coldwarrior on April 27, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Nope, I’m saying they are two muslim losers who immigrated here from Chechnya/Russia, who became islamofacists and wanted to kill Americans.

I really don’t care how hey do it but Chechnyas have a long history of terrorism. It seems we look the other way because they are not arabs but they are just as crazy as their ME brethren.

Blake on April 27, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Cold warrior. How is what they did different from the guy who shot up the movie theater or the guy who shot up the elementry school? I believe theirs crazy, evil people of all backgrounds, religions, etc.

I don’t see anyone bringing up what church those guys went too. Why does it matter? Islam is the largest religion in the world. Less than 1% of their membership can’t dictate the whole religion just like all the child raping priest can’t dictate the entire catholic church.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

If you use the metric of the 9-11 AQ jihadi murderers…then you ignore that almost all jihad bombings and attacks across the globe over the past decade were done by amateurs, most one-shot deals. Sure, Bombay was a mass operation…but hundreds of other attacks, to includef inside Iraq and Afghanistan, all had the earmarks of an amateur. Killed a lot of folks, still. But, if the metric is that “terrorists” have to be well-trained, carry an ID card, be on a membership roster somewhere and have multi-page detailed plans all laid out and rehearsed…well, all I can say is that someone has seen too many epidoes of “24″ back in the day.

Hassan the Fort Hood Killer had not escape plan.

But, that’s just workplace violence, not terrorism.

If Islam is part of their lives and they blow things up…it is all part of the same animal.

coldwarrior on April 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Got to say one thing sort of on this subject. I feel pretty good about this country in that the Boston bombers are considered nut cases that happen to be radical Muslims, NOT that Muslim are radicals bombers. This is a very important world wide lesson. In other countries there would be wide spread retaliation against the families and ethnic groups of the people involved. Wide spread killings and destruction would follow. NOT HERE!

jpcpt03 on April 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

I don’t see anyone bringing up what church those guys went too. Why does it matter? Islam is the largest religion in the world. Less than 1% of their membership can’t dictate the whole religion just like all the child raping priest can’t dictate the entire catholic church.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

You are blind brother. You had better adjust your sights before it’s too late.

VegasRick on April 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

Perhaps they deviated from the “inspire” recipe due to ease of obtaining components. What was easy for them to get? Everything in them was easy to get.

I’m not buying that argument.

On the deviations, what were they? I don’t know the recipe. Safe bet they deviated with things easier to get.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 12:21 PM

they are just as crazy as their ME brethren.

Blake on April 27, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Crazy?

By American standards, or what used to pass as American standards at one time, sure, well maybe.

But, they are not crazy.

They are determined. They are dedicated. They are inspired. They all have a common goal.

Kill infidels. Enslave infidels.

Bring back the glory of the Caliphate, shape aand give birth to one world, under Allah, with the Koran as the sole and only law.

Submit. Or die.

It has been a fact of Islam since Mohammed first started his rants way back in 622.

They have not changed that, one bit.

It is our perceptions that have been allowed to fog over.

They know this. They will use this.

We ignore it at our own peril.

coldwarrior on April 27, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Got to say one thing sort of on this subject. I feel pretty good about this country in that the Boston bombers are considered nut cases that happen to be radical Muslims, NOT that Muslim are radicals bombers. This is a very important world wide lesson. In other countries there would be wide spread retaliation against the families and ethnic groups of the people involved. Wide spread killings and destruction would follow. NOT HERE!

jpcpt03 on April 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

I consider most muslims to be nut cases and radical muslims the supporters of the murder of innocent people. The two aholes in Boston were radical muslims. They are not nut cases, they are criminals/terrorists.

Blake on April 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM

I’m still desperately hoping against hope that this was not the result of some skilled terrorist organization, because if it is, it will make O’bama look bad.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Edited for accuracy.

Del Dolemonte on April 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM

coldwarrior on April 27, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Oh stop it. I’m not interested in your anal parsing of my language.

Blake on April 27, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Actually, the mosque they went too does matter. Who bankrolls it? Did the saudi with the 212-3b have connections?

Like I said, follow the money.

Why was the saudi with the 212-3b even there? To see how effectively the money was spent?

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 12:29 PM

I think they went through the same thing Nidal Hassan did. They were living lives as Americans, but were feeling oddly unfulfilled, and wanting to do something big for Islam. There are hot and cold running bad guys trained to keep an eye out for kids like Hassan or Tsarnaev, to take them in and manipulate them into planning and executing their own “jihad.”

Sekhmet on April 27, 2013 at 12:35 PM

I don’t see anyone bringing up what church those guys went too. Why does it matter? Islam is the largest religion in the world. Less than 1% of their membership can’t dictate the whole religion just like all the child raping priest can’t dictate the entire catholic church.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

F-

Those scumbag priests did not find motivation in their religion for their actions.

CW on April 27, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

Oh and you own part of this. You and your PC bullshite.

CW on April 27, 2013 at 12:37 PM

Suspect 2 was a med student. not dumb.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM

I recall reading somewhere that Suspect 2 was an undergrad freshman in a second or third rate state school who was getting very low grades and might have had to drop out.

I have worked with people with Bachelors degrees from third rate state schools, which pretty much must admit anyone who applies, who were incapable of functioning beyond about high school freshman level. Some state colleges will admit anyone with a HS diploma and issue passing grades just for showing up in class and taking the tests, regardless of how well you score on the tests.

Suspect 1 took a few “accounting” courses in a community junior college. Many of them operate about the same way.

These days if you can pay the tuition, whether out of your own pocket or not, you can gain admission to a college somewhere.

farsighted on April 27, 2013 at 12:40 PM

The “inspire” website isn’t all that’s out there. Google “primitive detonation trigger”, or some such language. You’ll get all the info you want.

Maybe he was trained, but it’s not a prerequisite.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM

FWIW…

On the internet one can find almost everything you need to know to build a Hiroshima style nuke. Probably everything. It is 70 year old technology.

farsighted on April 27, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

People like you really can’t be that stupid, can you? You really are willing to admitting to being a complete ignoramus? Just for the sake of trolling a blog?

The answers to your question are left as an exercise to yourself to hopefully raise your knowledge to at least imbecile level,

AZfederalist on April 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Let’s face it…anyone who has watched a few TV shows during prime time can put together a “detonator” of some sort.

The concept is pretty simple: Close the circuit.

All you need is something to energize a relay or close a switch or connect two wires. Just depends on how much you want to invest and how far away you want to be when it goes off.

Cell phone has a vibrate mode? That works.

Have an R/C car? Yep.

Have a windup or electric clock? With an alarm?

Sheesh…it isn’t friggin’ rocket science.

Now the method MAY allow LEOs to finger someone as the maker, but really….it isn’t all that difficult.

ProfShadow on April 27, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Farsighted- I have no college, in fact I dropped out of HS, and became a tradesmen. And I could build what they did. It’s not that complex. All this talk about how technical it is is false. They didn’t need technical help. They needed money.

Access to fireworks made it easy. Even without that it’s not that hard. I’m not sure what the FBI is getting at? What was so highly technical? Remote controllers? I had a remote controlled gas powered dune buggy in the 70′s. And a plane.

“inspire” may not recommend those in thier recipe because they don’t have hobby shops in afghanistan. But they have them in Boston.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 1:01 PM

Farsighted- I have no college, in fact I dropped out of HS, and became a tradesmen.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 1:01 PM

I know quite a few very intelligent people who have no college education at all.

My point was that admission to college is not evidence of any degree of intelligence.

farsighted on April 27, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Follow the money.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 1:05 PM

FBI: Tsarnaev bombs showed “additional training or expertise”

All the more reason to mirandize him and treat him like a common criminal. The Hussein Obama Administration couldn’t be more incompetent if it tried.

Basilsbest on April 27, 2013 at 1:08 PM

I don’t see anyone bringing up what church those guys went too. Why does it matter? Islam is the largest religion in the world. Less than 1% of their membership can’t dictate the whole religion just like all the child raping priest can’t dictate the entire catholic church.

Politricks

Actually, it’s not even the 2nd largest, not that it really matters how many Muslims there are, violent or not, in the context of this discussion. And to make your analogy apt you would have to show that a vast majority of Catholics are OK with – or at least indifferent concerning – child-raping priests, when the opposite is true.

Knott Buyinit on April 27, 2013 at 1:09 PM

I dropped out. Took the ASFAB, got a waiver from DC, my score was pretty high, and became an E–5 ET in 4 years in the Navy. Radar tech. IFF. TACAN. Empress, and 2M microminiature. Combat systems supply petty officer. Team leader primary attack team fire party.

You get bored on a ship. I made radios for fun. Heathkits. TV’s.

Point is, kids now days know tech better than I do. It’s a false notion they needed help in that regard.

What they needed was a bankroll..
So the FBI is barking up the wrong tree.

Follow the money. Or don’t they want to? Hmmm.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 1:22 PM

Politricks, you’re an armchair i**ot. I was born and raised in the ME. I know and understand them more than most at HA. Most so called moderates sympathasize with the loony wing of their religion. Thats something that you’d never understand. Because you’re a logical American. You can never understand the mindset of a muslim.

tommy71 on April 27, 2013 at 1:24 PM

I don’t see anyone bringing up what church those guys went too.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

LOL! Well then you have been willfully ignorant, as many of us have been talking about that very thing here on Hot Gas since 4/15.

The Democrat Media long ago discovered that they could manipulate, shape and control public opinion just as easily by what they do not report as by doing so by what they do report.

In the case of the Bomb Brothers, they attended a radical mosque in Cambridge called ISB. As our friends at Power Line told us on April 22 (last Monday):

About that mosque

A knowledgeable reader writes from Boston:

“You may already know this, but the ISB mosque in Cambridge referenced in your Power Line post has a long history, and the group I belong to has been part of it. You can learn more at this Web site.

It will be very interesting to see what turns up from various investigations, including our own. As for the Boston Globe, they have responded with utter indifference, over a period of nearly a decade now, to the information we have given them about the radicalism of the mosque’s leaders. They are apparently continuing this pattern in the face of the Marathon bombing.

Our Muslim partner [name omitted] visited this mosque several years ago and was so appalled at what he heard there that he never went back. He told us: “I left Egypt to escape the Muslim Brotherhood and found out that they had got here first.”

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/04/about-that-mosque.php

The Boston Globe is owned by the New York Times.

F-

Del Dolemonte on April 27, 2013 at 1:55 PM

Good interview with Robert Spencer. He hits on a lot of the points we awake people (not the willfully blind enablers) have been making.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/04/video-robert-spencer-on-why-jihadis-are-so-often-on-welfare.html

onlineanalyst on April 27, 2013 at 1:57 PM

The media theory over the last several days about the Boston Marathon bombing is that the pressure-cooker design came straight off the Internet and didn’t require any specific training. That assumption ignores a couple of key points even if the bomb design matched those readily available on jihadi websites, such as practice and testing, of which so far the FBI has found no evidence in the US.

In my mind the issue is not whether or not it is possible to build the bombs they used from info available on the internet. It is. Bombs in general are conceptually simple devices — explosive material in a container with a detonator that provides an electrical spark or current (or a fuse that burns).

The issue is whether it is likely or not that these two sociopaths did it all on their own with no assistance, guidance, training, advice, logistical help, financial assistance, etc., all things considered and in the time frames we think they did it. And that includes “practice and testing”.

On the hazards of building even simple bombs…

When I was in HS a guy blew part of his thumb off trying to build a simple pipe bomb using match heads. Bill Ayers girlfriend blew herself up making a simple bomb.

Ramzi Yousef, a bright guy with an electrical engineering degree, and his buddies set fire to a building in the Philippines while trying to make slightly more sophisticated bombs.

farsighted on April 27, 2013 at 2:09 PM

This was clearly lone wolf, recreation-place violence.

As this administration so evidently believes, there has never been a bad Moslem or a good Republican.

The Koran makes unkind references to pigs and monkeys, so I am mystified why this administration should fall back on the three monkey pledge, “see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil” when it comes to the advocates jihad and the absence of Moslem critics of terrorism, and is so fond of pork barrel.

Limpet6 on April 27, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Don’t miss this gem.

Schadenfreude on April 27, 2013 at 2:14 PM

You’re not going to find anything looking for the tranfer of knowledge. Too vague. Money? That you can follow. It might work otherwise overseas where resources are limited, but not here. Their only limiting factor was money.

Follow the money.

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 2:27 PM

What about those items that left their possession just before the bombing? CBS News’ John Miller updated viewers on the investigation and reported that FBI agents are now searching for laptops that the two brothers discarded shortly before conducting their attack:

Come on, I can’t believe the two brothers’ alienation from American culture was so extreme that they could possibly thought to throw out their computers rather than recycle them. I mean they still lived in Massachusetts, for godsakes.

Dusty on April 27, 2013 at 2:53 PM

Fox News is reporting that the detanators are thought to have been ling of sight type detonators with a relatively short range. And, that investigators have not ruled out a third bomber…hmmm.

d1carter on April 27, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Why does it matter? Islam is the largest religion in the world. Less than 1% of their membership can’t dictate the whole religion just like all the child raping priest can’t dictate the entire catholic church.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

All humans do bad things. However there is a simple distinction between a person who does bad things in spite of their professed “religion” and a person who does bad things because their professed religion prescribes such things.

Islam is as much a political ideology as it is a “religion”. Its unambiguously stated goal is world domination, and it specifically prescribes using as much violence as is necessary to either kill non-Muslims, enslave non-Muslims or persuade them to “convert”. No other so-called religion has these attributes. You will find ample evidence that Muslims understand their ideology as I have described by studying past and present events.

The 1% can accomplish a great deal. When Islam began it was just a handful of people following a merchant — a man who was ignorant, brutal, lustful for wealth power and sex, and deceitful. This unpleasant man is held by Muslims to be the ideal human being and a role model for all of them. This band of barbarians managed to get their ideas adopted across a third of the planet, leaving many societies in a worse condition than they found them.

YiZhangZhe on April 27, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Del Dolemonte 9-11 happened under Bush. Did that make him “Look Bad”. I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Are you saying that the letter next to our Presidents name will determine wether or not evil exists in the world? I seem to recall evil things happening through out history no matter the President.

Yizhangzye

You could almost say the same thing about the founder of the Mormon religion.

Disclaimer I think all Religions are nutty but I don’t judge people for their beliefs. I have friends that are muslim, christian, baptist, athesit, etc and we all get along fine.

Anyone who lives in the real world can’t honestly believe all muslims are evil and out to kill you. If you have a life off of this message board then I’m sure you cross paths with hundreds of muslims a month. They’re at your job, school, gym, kids basketball game, movie theater, coffee shop, red light, etc..

I’m sure their more afraid of some ignorant person who hates them simply for being muslim more so than they do anything to scare you.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 4:09 PM

But I understand this site..I’ve been here long enough. Everything in America is the fault of Gays, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos and Democrats. If only everyone in America was a White Republican than the world would be a perfect place with no crime, sickness, disease, or debt. Just a perfect Utopia lol.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 4:13 PM

You could almost say the same thing about the founder of the Mormon religion.

There are some striking similarities between the founders of Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, yes. However, the differences are important: Joseph Smith did not advocate enslaving non-Mormons or exterminating them.

Anyone who lives in the real world can’t honestly believe all muslims are evil and out to kill you.

Nobody has claimed that they are.

If you have a life off of this message board then I’m sure you cross paths with hundreds of muslims a month. They’re at your job, school, gym, kids basketball game, movie theater, coffee shop, red light, etc..

I live surrounded by them, and have done for years. My impression of them is not wholly negative, but I am not about to pretend that their religion has left them better than, or even equal to, their non-Muslim counterparts.

I’m sure their more afraid of some ignorant person who hates them simply for being muslim more so than they do anything to scare you.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Perhaps. However, based on my own encounters and conversations with Muslims I’d say they are more afraid of (a) other Muslims and (b) the eternal rage of the supposedly merciful Allah.

What you seem to be ignoring is that Islam, as a set of ideas, has some features not found in any other set of ideas presented as a “religion”. The prescription of violence against non-members is one of them. You can know the tree by the fruit it yields. You can know a belief by the actions it precipitates. Look at what kind of society Islam yields: Mr Musharraff (the Muslim former leader of Muslim Pakistan) once remarked on the fact that everywhere in the world Muslims ranked at or near the bottom of leagues for health, liberty, education, accomplishment, justice and the like. But why is this? It is because they hold a vindictive, ignorant, murderous, lustful liar as their role model. Anybody who follows Mohammed is following him to ruin.

We might agree that Islam and Mormonism are equally false, but they don’t teach the same things and hence they don’t lead to similar outcomes.

To my knowledge there has only ever been one bombing done because of Mormonism, and that was done contrary to the teachings of Mormonism. Violence in Islamic communities is commonplace — as testified in the Dagestan article also here on HotAir today. It is commonplace because the religion requires it to be so. The violence isn’t a “bug” it is a “feature”.

YiZhangZhe on April 27, 2013 at 4:54 PM

Del Dolemonte 9-11 happened under Bush. Did that make him “Look Bad”. I don’t get the point you’re trying to make. Are you saying that the letter next to our Presidents name will determine wether or not evil exists in the world? I seem to recall evil things happening through out history no matter the President.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 4:09 PM

LOL, thanks for confirming the accuracy of my original post!

A+

As for the original 9/11, bin Laden himself said after those attacks that they were originally conceived because of his personal hatred of (Democrat) President Bill Clinton, who he specifically mentioned by name many times in his 1996 Fatwah against America. He knew nothing about Bush.

And despite Bush’s Job Approval jumping up 35 points in 4 days after those attacks, many Democrats did blame Bush for letting those attacks happen. The Chairman of the Democrat National Committee was one of them, and another one was the least-qualifed Junior Senator in New York State’s history, who would later become the least-qualified Secretary of State in American history.

As for evil things happening thru history, as I correctly noted to another poster on another thread here last night, all 3 of the deadliest wars fought by America in the past 100 years had Democrat Commanders-in-Chief. The first one (World War 2) was led by a Democrat who locked up over 100,000 Americans solely because of their race. Today he is still lionized by your Party. And his successor vaporized hundreds of thousands with 2 atomic weapons. To later be followed by 2 Democrat Presidents who commanded a disastrous war in Vietnam.

So yes, the letter next to the President does make a difference. Especially since this Democrat President ordered that all references to Islam be purged from all FBI training manuals.

F-

Now, as to your “reply” to the other poster…

Anyone who lives in the real world can’t honestly believe all muslims are evil and out to kill you.

No one here has said that. You assumed it.

And you really don’t want to go down that road, do you? After all, it is Democrats who honestly believe that all Republicans are gun-owning Southern Racists, simply because of the actions of a few. You Dim Bulbs preach to us about how we shouldn’t label a particular group of people “evil” simply by the actions of a few members of that group, but then immediately you do the same thing without a shred of guilt.

F-, the sequel

Del Dolemonte on April 27, 2013 at 5:12 PM

What you seem to be ignoring is that Islam, as a set of ideas, has some features not found in any other set of ideas presented as a “religion”. The prescription of violence against non-members is one of them. You can know the tree by the fruit it yields. You can know a belief by the actions it precipitates. Look at what kind of society Islam yields: Mr Musharraff (the Muslim former leader of Muslim Pakistan) once remarked on the fact that everywhere in the world Muslims ranked at or near the bottom of leagues for health, liberty, education, accomplishment, justice and the like. But why is this? It is because they hold a vindictive, ignorant, murderous, lustful liar as their role model. Anybody who follows Mohammed is following him to ruin.

We might agree that Islam and Mormonism are equally false, but they don’t teach the same things and hence they don’t lead to similar outcomes.

To my knowledge there has only ever been one bombing done because of Mormonism, and that was done contrary to the teachings of Mormonism. Violence in Islamic communities is commonplace — as testified in the Dagestan article also here on HotAir today. It is commonplace because the religion requires it to be so. The violence isn’t a “bug” it is a “feature”.

YiZhangZhe on April 27, 2013 at 4:54 PM

A+

But don’t expect your debate “opponent” to understand what you are saying.

What I find so bizzare about the modern Leftist’s “minds” is that they embrace Islam even though so many of its “features”, as you put them, are completely alien to their own beliefs. Such as how Islam treats women and gays. But they totally overlook those “features”, as well as the one you cite above, without skipping a heartbeat.

Genetic?

Del Dolemonte on April 27, 2013 at 5:31 PM

As expected we have more questions than answers.

Someone (the fireworks manufacturer?) said that the powder in firework the older brother purchased weren’t enough to build two bombs and now we suspect they had several more that they threw at police. I guess there’s a lot more empty fireworks out there somewhere??

E9RET on April 27, 2013 at 5:39 PM

What I find so bizzare about the modern Leftist’s “minds” is that they embrace Islam even though so many of its “features”, as you put them, are completely alien to their own beliefs. Such as how Islam treats women and gays. But they totally overlook those “features”, as well as the one you cite above, without skipping a heartbeat.

Genetic?

Del Dolemonte on April 27, 2013 at 5:31 PM

A lot of people are not “for” something as much as they are “against” something else. They have a clear notion of something that they consider “bad” but don’t have a clear idea of a “good” that would be better than the thing they oppose.

They are like people walking-up a valley and demolishing a dam wall because it blocks their path, i.e. they are “against” the dam. But they don’t have the wit to realise that the dam is holding back the water that will wash them to oblivion when they succeed.

They also like people who sit on a very high branch of the tree representing civilisation and who then — finding that the view is not quite perfect, or the breeze a little too strong, or the twigs a little prickly — try to cut down the tree.

YiZhangZhe on April 27, 2013 at 6:08 PM

But I understand this site..I’ve been here long enough. Everything in America is the fault of Gays, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos and Democrats. If only everyone in America was a White Republican than the world would be a perfect place with no crime, sickness, disease, or debt. Just a perfect Utopia lol.

Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 4:13 PM

Since you’ve brought it up, what would the crime rate be like if everyone was a White Republican? You’re very brave to raise what many would call a racist issue.

PersonFromPorlock on April 27, 2013 at 6:17 PM

………Politricks on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 PM

People like you really can’t be that stupid, can you? …

AZfederalist on April 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM

…well…I think when he FARTS…he goes into a COMA!

KOOLAID2 on April 27, 2013 at 7:24 PM

…Suspect 2 was a med student

wolly4321 on April 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM

I keep reading this. He is 19 years old. In this country, admission to medical school typically follows obtaining a four-year college degree. I really don’t think it likely that he is “a med student”.

PRE-med, possibly, but all that means is that when he went off to college he said “I think I want to be a doctor” instead of “I think I want to be a fireman” or “I think I want to be a train engineer”. It’s really not an indication of whether he was bright, or as dumb as a post.

bofh on April 27, 2013 at 8:39 PM

No, his Family said he was a med student. Have you listened to his mother hold forth on anything??

I’ve also read that he was a nursing student, in communications, and a drug dealer. Mostly he was a terrorist….

skeeter on April 28, 2013 at 2:05 AM