CNN, Reuters disagree: Was Tamerlan ever on a terror watch list? Update: Welfare ended in 2012

posted at 8:41 am on April 24, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

First, everyone wondered how Tamerlan Tsarnaev could have left the country without triggering an alarm after a Russian warning to the FBI in 2011 about his radicalization.  Yesterday, DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano said that Tsarnaev’s travel did set off warning bells, at least when he left.  Last night, though, CNN reported that Tsarnaev had never been on a watch or no-fly list at all — which is why no one noticed when he left and returned:

Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev was not on a terrorism watch list or a “no-fly” list when he traveled to Russia last year, a federal law enforcement official told CNN on Tuesday.

The source, who spoke on condition of not being identified, noted the FBI found no suspicions of terrorist ties when it interviewed Tsarnaev and his family members and friends in 2011 after Russia asked U.S. authorities for information on the immigrant from the Caucasus region.

Because the United States “never deemed him a threat,” Tsarnaev “was not on a terror watch list or any ‘no-fly’ list,” according to the official.

The information added to questions over the FBI’s handling of Tsarnaev, 26, the older of two brothers accused of setting off two bombs that killed three people and injured more than 260 others near the finish line of last week’s Boston Marathon.

Not long after, Reuters’ Mark Hosenball reported the exact opposite:

The name of one of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, was listed on the U.S. government’s highly classified central database of people it views as potential terrorists. But the list is so vast that this did not mean authorities automatically kept close tabs on him, sources close to the bombing investigation said on Tuesday.

Tsarnaev, 26, was killed in a police shootout early Friday, while his younger brother Dzhokhar, 19, was captured later that day. Prosecutors say the brothers, ethnic Chechens who had been living in the United States for more than a decade, planted two bombs that exploded near the finish line of the marathon on April 15, killing three people and wounding more than 200.

The sources said Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s details were entered into TIDE, a database maintained by the National Counterterrorism Center, because the FBI spoke to him in 2011 while investigating a Russian tip-off that he had become a follower of radical Islamists.

The FBI found nothing to suggest he was an active threat, but all the same placed his name on the “Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment” list. The FBI has not said what it did find about Tsarnaev.

How could DHS know that Tsarnaev was traveling without having him on a watch list?  That’s one question that the FBI and DHS will have to hash out, but Sen. Lindsey Graham asked another yesterday. If Napolitano is right and DHS knew a person of interest was traveling to a region where radical Islamists operate, did they let the FBI know?  It doesn’t look that way, Graham told CNN:

However, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told CNN on Tuesday that the episode showed that the Department of Homeland Security never notified the FBI that Tsarnaev had left the country.

“It was clear to me that the homeland security shop had information about the travel to Russia, the FBI did not, and they’re not talking to each other and they’re going back to the pre-9/11 problems here,” Graham said.

Another good question should be whether the TIDE database is useful for real-time national-security work. If it has gotten so large that it’s not able to keep the FBI informed on movements or allow investigators to keep tabs on its members, then perhaps the FBI needs more resources, or the list needs to get narrowed a bit.  When you can’t watch the watch list effectively, how much preventive good can it do?

Whether or not Tamerlan was on the terror or watch lists, Tamerlan was at least on one government list — welfare.  This seems to be the topic du jour:

Marathon bombings mastermind Tamerlan Tsarnaev was living on taxpayer-funded state welfare benefits even as he was delving deep into the world of radical anti-American Islamism, the Herald has learned.

State officials confirmed last night that Tsarnaev, slain in a raging gun battle with police last Friday, was receiving benefits along with his wife, Katherine Russell Tsarnaev, and their 3-year-old daughter. The state’s Executive Office of Health and Human Services said those benefits ended in 2012 when the couple stopped meeting income eligibility limits. Russell Tsarnaev’s attorney has claimed Katherine — who had converted to Islam — was working up to 80 hours a week as a home health aide while Tsarnaev stayed at home.

In addition, both of Tsarnaev’s parents received benefits, and accused brother bombers Dzhokhar and Tamerlan were recipients through their parents when they were younger, according to the state.

The news raises questions over whether Tsarnaev financed his radicalization on taxpayer money.

Does it?  It’s certainly a great opportunity to call Tsarnaev a hypocrite, taking money from the government he apparently hated (the Herald front page headline: “WHAT NERVE”), but otherwise, what’s the argument? Tsarnaev was a legal resident and apparently qualified for welfare; other welfare recipients also end up committing burglaries, robberies, and murder, as do non-recipients.  This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

Update: Gabriel Malor e-mails me with a couple of good points.  To summarize, there are actually a couple of kinds of watch lists, and it also may be that Tsarnaev’s listing expired from one of those lists while he was out of the country (the LA Times suggested as much yesterday).  If so, that’s a strange thing to happen while someone is traveling on a visa outside of the country — to the country that warned us about him in the first place.

Update: The Tsarnaevs got dropped from the welfare rolls last year, when the wife started earning too much money to qualify:

The suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings killed in a shootout with police received welfare benefits from the state up until last year, when he became ineligible based on family income. …

The state says both Tsarnaev and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAHR’ tsahr-NEYE’-ehv) — his brother and the other bombing suspect — received welfare benefits as children through their parents while the family lived in Massachusetts.

Neither was receiving benefits at the time of the bombing.


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Cue the “Benny Hill” theme song. We’re being overlorded by a herd of clowns, I wouldn’t trust any of these people to wash my car without accidentally setting it on fire.

Do you feel safe with these morons running the show? They’re all idiots.

Bishop on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

Play it safe and assume that the opposite of whatever CNN reports is true.

Valkyriepundit on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

I don’t think so.
The easy $$ available to immigrants from the US is what allows immigrants to come & stay here that should not be here.
The only immigrants that should be allowed in the US are people who can get a job & have desirable skills & unfortunate refugees. And the latter need to be vetted very harshly.
You should not be allowed to come here if you cannot support yourself.

Badger40 on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

Does it? It’s certainly a great opportunity to call Tsarnaev a hypocrite, taking money from the government he apparently hated (the Herald front page headline: “WHAT NERVE”), but otherwise, what’s the argument? Tsarnaev was a legal resident and apparently qualified for welfare; other welfare recipients also end up committing burglaries, robberies, and murder, as do non-recipients. This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

Are you serious, Ed? This is a huge deal. For days now people have been asking if the bomber brothers were receiving financial assistance from terror groups to fund their activities. Now we find out they quite possibly financed at least part of their terrorist plot with taxpayer dollars?!

This entire story is becoming a nightmare for the left. A national security failure by Obama’s DHS. A terrorist act carried out on US soil by Islamic radicals who were immigrants. And now to add insult to a lot of injury, they were on the government dole.

Doughboy on April 24, 2013 at 8:46 AM

This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

The easy $$ available to immigrants from the US is what allows immigrants to come & stay here that should not be here.
The only immigrants that should be allowed in the US are people who can get a job & have desirable skills & unfortunate refugees. And the latter need to be vetted very harshly.
You should not be allowed to come here if you cannot support yourself.

Badger40 on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

You are so right and it is so terribly obvious.

No doubt that is why it’s going “unnoticed” and not reported in that way.

tru2tx on April 24, 2013 at 8:54 AM

I don’t think so.
The easy $$ available to immigrants from the US is what allows immigrants to come & stay here that should not be here.
The only immigrants that should be allowed in the US are people who can get a job & have desirable skills & unfortunate refugees. And the latter need to be vetted very harshly.
You should not be allowed to come here if you cannot support yourself.

Badger40 on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

Badger40:Correct,nailed,and accurately so:)
===========================================

jjauthor Janie Johnson 10 Apr

If we followed the same immigration laws as Mexico…or North Korea… pic.twitter.com/64y2pxOZYo
====================================

https://twitter.com/jjauthor/status/321994269525155840/photo/1

canopfor on April 24, 2013 at 8:57 AM

It is almost as if the Obama administration considers security vigilance itself a species of Islamophobia. The casual security on the anniversary of 9/11 at the Benghazi consulate — when others had shut their consulates down — seems to fit with that mindset. An administration that prides itself on better relations with Muslims tends to hesitate before taking any action that would imply the opposite.

ACLU-style Muslim groups have exploited the Obama administration’s Islamophilia to the hilt, demanding and frequently getting changes to security programs out of sensitivity to Islam. According to the mom of the Boston bombers, her oldest son even tried to convert visiting FBI officials to his jihadist Islam, which completes the picture of politically correct haplessness under Obama.

J_Crater on April 24, 2013 at 8:58 AM

Whether or not Tamerlan was on the terror or watch lists, Tamerlan was at least on one government list — welfare. This seems to be the topic du jour:

Ed,

This is one of the reasons why the economic component of our immigration system is broken. Legal immigrants quickly assimilate into the welfare state which reduces the amount of labor they contribute to the economy in low end jobs. It also increases federal spending. Illegal aliens sneak in and fill the labor gap caused by our robust welfare state. Once 10-20 million illegal aliens are amnestied they will assimilate into the welfare state like every other immigrant and we will repeat the cycle as new illegal aliens enter the country. The immigration reform bill doesn’t address this problem.

Wigglesworth on April 24, 2013 at 9:01 AM

Once again our intelligence communities aren’t talking to one another. Didn’t the Democrats chastise Bush for the exact same failing, one which resulted in the attack on WTC? And wasn’t an intelligence gathering breakdown blamed for the “false” WMD claims that led up to the invasion of Iraq?

Where is the finger pointing now ABC, NBC, CBS et al?

To not be prepared is one thing but not being prepared after watching intelligence failure cause thousands of deaths of American citizens is quite another. Bishop is right. They are all idiots. Unqualified and braindead to boot.

fogw on April 24, 2013 at 9:02 AM

You should not be allowed to come here if you cannot support yourself.

Badger40 on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

If you bring a relative here legally, you must provide an affidavit of support that promises the immigrant will not be collecting government handouts. Apparently nobody actually enforces that.

The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:03 AM

I thought it was because his name was spelled wrong?

Every night, I feel so secure knowing Nappy,Barry,Kerry are looking after us.
btw..how are those new TSA uniforms looking? While they grope
grandma with a colostomy bag- muslims out chill’n over seas with Islamic F88k bags.
Gee,after the feds probed him in 2011 and his arrest for assault..can’t imagine why not. Sure..not reason to keep an eye on him or put him on the no fly list. None at all.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM

Ties right in with the non-sequitur of yesterday. Shakes my head and declines further comment.

Limerick on April 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM

 It’s certainly a great opportunity to call Tsarnaev a hypocrite, taking money from the government he apparently hated (the Herald front page headline: “WHAT NERVE”), but otherwise, what’s the argument? 

Silly wabbit. No hypocrisy that believes in lying to infidels and taking tribute. We paid him because he’s Muslim like we pay the majority of Muslims as ordered by allah, the spawn of Satan.

AH_C on April 24, 2013 at 9:06 AM

We’ve got too many unAmerican voters already without rewarding Illegal immigrants with citizenship.

WannabeAnglican on April 24, 2013 at 8:35 AM

AMEN wiggle.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:08 AM

If you bring a relative here legally, you must provide an affidavit of support that promises the immigrant will not be collecting government handouts. Apparently nobody actually enforces that.

The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:03 AM

Why would they when nobody actually enforces our immigration laws either. The leftist trash of this nation WANT more welfare cases because they’re easier to control.

Bishop on April 24, 2013 at 9:11 AM

Hmm. Even this administration’s vast ignorance is ‘historic’.

I have, however, come up with the answer to Hillary’s scoff ‘What difference, at this point, does it make?’

A: 2014 and 2016.

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 9:11 AM

So this Loser was on welfare, and he was a Boxer??

I can here Roberto Duran now saying,

NO MAS!! NO MAS!!

Ladies and Gents, meet the New and IMPROVED AMERICA!!

We take you Live to CA for the “Homeless Bill of Rights” that
was just passed!!

God, is this Country great or What!!??

ToddPA on April 24, 2013 at 9:12 AM

I really don’t care if these guys had outside contacts or not. They were still a muslim terrorist cell and they were quite successful in killing and maiming innocent people.

Now they are reporting that they were on their way to NYC to plant bombs there.

Blake on April 24, 2013 at 9:12 AM

Cool…our tax $’s spent taking care of Islamic shite bags.
More please! Open the borders and visa programs wide open
and grant more asylum.
America thx you.
I wanna puke.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:12 AM

We have ads in Mexico for American food stamps and other welfare..

We invite this crap..
And I say this because we have an incompetent bureaucracy that can weed out bad people.

Expect more BS

Electrongod on April 24, 2013 at 9:13 AM

can = can’t

Electrongod on April 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM

Silverback strikes out. Again.
I have full faith this idiot can sort out the amnesty of 20 million criminal illegal aliens. Yeah. //////

RovesChins on April 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM

What does it say about American intelligence when a tip about a possible terrorist living in this country has to come from Russia? Then the FBI claims the guy is clear and turns out he has his own YouTube channel just full of radical propoganda. EXCELLENT!!!!!

supersport667 on April 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM

Barry’s Auntie approves.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:15 AM

Oh yeah Rovechin, oh yeah!!!
Hot damn!

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM

Then how did Tamaran “ping,” Janet?

You wouldn’t lie to us, would you, Janet?

coldwarrior on April 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM

The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:03 AM

Having signed the government’s sponsorship document, that is a ten year commitment. After five years, the misses and I are on the hook for five more years for our son’s ex.

Oh yeah, that’s EX, after qualifying for her green card– b*tch!

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM

DHS “lost track of him” because they did not think he was going to get back in the country.

It’s been reported that Tamerlan’s visa was being held by the Russians.

That makes sense when you considered how they were keeping tabs on him.

The Russians didn’t think he was going to attack in the U.S. They thought he came to Dagestan to help Chechen rebels plan an attack on Russia.

So Russia wanted us to interrogate Tamerlan for them.

And we shrugged, held up his naturalization, and let his visa expire, forcing him to go back and re-apply.

When you add everything up, Tamerlan’s life was in full, total collapse which fit perfectly with jihad.

budfox on April 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM

This entire story is becoming a nightmare for the left. A national security failure by Obama’s DHS. A terrorist act carried out on US soil by Islamic radicals who were immigrants. And now to add insult to a lot of injury, they were on the government dole.

Doughboy on April 24, 2013 at 8:46 AM

The mother is a real piece of work…

“‘If they are going to kill him, I don’t care,’ she told CNN of Dzhokhar. ‘My oldest one is killed, so I don’t care. I don’t care is my youngest one is going to be killed today. I want the world to hear this…’And I don’t care if I am going to get killed too. And I will say Allahu akbar!’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2314024/Zubeidat-Tsarnaeva-Mom-Boston-Marathon-bombers-said-does-care-son-killed.html#ixzz2RO0j6Sn9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

workingclass artist on April 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM

If Napolitano is right and DHS knew a person of interest was traveling to a region where radical Islamists operate, did they let the FBI know?

Tamerlan Tsarnaev was a resident alien. If he is on any government list. If he is being repeatedly flagged by the Russians. Then why was he allowed to remain?

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:17 AM

can = can’t

Electrongod on April 24, 2013 at 9:14 AM

New bumper sticker?

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 9:19 AM

Ed, sometimes I just can’t understand you at all.

This jihadi is getting welfare and you say it is nothing. It just amazes me. This exemplifies one of many things wrong with out system. It is far from nothing.

Also I’m sure the fact that this guy was Muslim protected him from scrutinization by Obama. If he was a tea partier he would have been followed 24 hours a day.

Democrats protect their allies like jihadis and attack their mutual enemies.

GardenGnome on April 24, 2013 at 9:20 AM

terror watch list

May depend on what the definition of “terror watch list” is.

We are entering the “lawyers splitting hairs about definitions” phase of the blame game.

farsighted on April 24, 2013 at 9:20 AM

I really don’t care if these guys had outside contacts or not. They were still a muslim terrorist cell and they were quite successful in killing and maiming innocent people.

Blake on April 24, 2013 at 9:12 AM

Leaving aside the 9/11/01 atrocities, the most successful terrorist attack in recent years was the DC sniper. And there were only two of them without any outside contacts.

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:21 AM

a legal resident and apparently qualified for welfare; other welfare recipients also end up committing burglaries, robberies, and murder, as do non-recipients. This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

Well, true, BUT, we should look to Europe (and Canada, Australia, etc…) to see what a REALLY BIG PROBLEM this really is. In Europe, the vast majority (95%?) of muslim immigrants are on welfare … this is exactly where we are headed in the U.S. …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6JNYV25Zg

BRITAINS SINKING WELFARE COSTS: UNPRODUCTIVE MUSLIMS COST £13+ BILLION A YEAR

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/britains-sinking-welfare-costs-unproductive-muslims-cost-13-billion-a-year/

PROMINENT MUSLIM CLERIC: COLLECT GOV’T WELFARE AS A ‘JIHAD SEEKER’S ALLOWANCE’
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/18/prominent-muslim-cleric-collect-govt-welfare-as-a-jihad-seekers-allowance/

Muslims claiming cash for numerous wives

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/02/08/4834833-sun.html

Dearborn Muslims On Welfare and they hate us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TQsLjt_XwXY

There are many examples of this – and it is a recognized problem with muslim immigrants.

Pork-Chop on April 24, 2013 at 9:23 AM

Tsarnaev was a legal resident and apparently qualified for welfare; other welfare recipients also end up committing burglaries, robberies, and murder, as do non-recipients. This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

You would be right, were they an isolated instance. They’re not. It’s also some kind of twisted relativism to bother with the detail that non-recipients commit crimes at a matching level as recipients. That’s almost as dumb (read: liberal) as defending white collar crime because government all but turns a blind eye to street crime.

The brothers highlight that two major pillars of liberal government are seriously broken: the welfare state and lax immigration standards are flawed in ways more serious than anyone before knew. Add in that the current structure of homeland security is another huge failure, despite all the money thrown at it. And it’s all going to stay that way until the American people start speaking out and telling Washington we have had enough with half-assed measures and the politicians who fight hard only when the status quo is threatened.

Bloomberg had the nerve to say we need to rethink how we interpret the Constitution? No, we don’t. But we need to put the amnesty bill on hold until we get the existing problems fixed for good.

Of course, Washington won’t do that; Washington won’t do anything.

And the band played on…

Liam on April 24, 2013 at 9:23 AM

Ed’s been in the cold to long.
His cells are a tad bit frozen and not firing.
Whats it matter, they were on tons of welfare.
Whats it matter at this point?
Not optimal..but hey..whatever.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:23 AM

Tamerlan Tsarnaev was living on taxpayer-funded state welfare benefits even as he was delving deep into the world of radical anti-American Islamism

An idle mind is the devil’s playground. An idle Islamic mind is the devil’s Disney World.

Odysseus on April 24, 2013 at 9:24 AM

DHS “lost track of him” because they did not think he was going to get back in the country.

budfox on April 24, 2013 at 9:16 AM

You suppose that is part of the cover-up post Boston Marathon bombing? The number of 9/11/01 terrorists “lost” in the visa system was significant. It could well be the fat military-hating lesbian doesn’t want to admit that DHS is still as screwed up as ever when it comes to tracking people in the United States as guests.

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:24 AM

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

Ironically, in a week we know more about this shitstains life than Obama’s before he became president… Gotta just chafe Billary to the core!

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 9:27 AM

It could well be the fat military-hating lesbian doesn’t want to admit that DHS is still as screwed up as ever when it comes to tracking people in the United States as guests.

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:24 AM

She did just release 2000 + INS criminals out into the streets(promising more)
and stated the border was more secure then ever.
Based on that…I would wager your 100% correct.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:28 AM

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

What kind of a man lets his wife work 80 hours a week while he sits at home with nothing to do but become an Islamic terrorist?

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:28 AM

hmmmm hmmm hmmm
Barry is not having a good time of late.
Gun bills..whack
Syria
Islamic terror strikes
and more

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:30 AM

Gotta just chafe Billary to the core!

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 9:27 AM

The’re going to have their own issues if Hillary really does try another run at the Presidency. Hillary’s failures concerning Benghazi really are not as over as they think.

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:30 AM

What kind of a man lets his wife work 80 hours a week while he sits at home with nothing to do but become an Islamic terrorist?

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:28 AM

But you answer your own question.

bazil9 on April 24, 2013 at 9:31 AM

Also I’m sure the fact that this guy was Muslim protected him from scrutinization by Obama. If he was a tea partier he would have been followed 24 hours a day.

GardenGnome on April 24, 2013 at 9:20 AM

Or, hypothetically, had the clown posted a horribly amateurish video…

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 9:32 AM

PROMINENT MUSLIM CLERIC: COLLECT GOVERNMENT WELFARE AS A ‘JIHAD SEEKER’S ALLOWANCE’

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/18/prominent-muslim-cleric-collect-govt-welfare-as-a-jihad-seekers-allowance/

Pork-Chop on April 24, 2013 at 9:33 AM

What kind of a man lets his wife work 80 hours a week while he sits at home with nothing to do but become an Islamic terrorist?

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:28 AM

A WANNABE Islamic terrorist. Talk about exploitation of women…

Oh, wait! Liberals don’t want to talk about that in this case. It goes against the narrative, and might interfere with their intention to coddle the surviving brother and make him the dark folk hero they seem bent on making him.

Liam on April 24, 2013 at 9:34 AM

IMPORTANT!!!

1) Glenn Beck has new information that he will reveal at 10 AM ET…he is hinting that the info he has will show that Big Sis has purgered herself and will go to jail, or that the evidence will show that she should go to jail.

2) Walid Shoebat has released pics of Michelle Obama visiting Al-Harbi (Saudi nationalist & suspected accomplice to the bombers that was to be deported last week)in the hospital a few days ago.

LordMaximus on April 24, 2013 at 9:35 AM

The Reuters and CNN reports aren’t necessarily contradictory. I suppose that the Terrorism Watch and the No-Fly list might be the same, though, there could be reason for them being separate. That’s not a big deal, I’m just noting it. However, “the U.S. government’s highly classified central database of people it views as potential terrorists” is not the same as either “list” that CNN referred to.

It’s a matter of sets. Terrorism Watch and No-Fly would be smaller sets within the set Reuters reported on. So both could be right and it wouldn’t be contradictory.

I didn’t see Nappy’s press conference or whatever, but I didn’t see where she said that his departure “set off warning bells”. I think she said the departure was captured and the system pinged.

Strictly speaking, I don’t have a problem with the FBI not having Tamerlan on the CNN lists. I do have a problem with them taking Tamerlan off the list between the time his departure pinged the system and the time he came back. That ping should have not only delayed deactivation of his case but activated a second look. The purpose of the database is, among other things, to catch terrorist before they attack. That means you are trying to anticipate attacks in the making and prevent them. Here we have a case where, unless Tamerlan has already ‘attacked and we don’t know it, we anticipated a Terrorist’s actions very, very early in his jihadi career, via Russian assistance. We should have done better on this and the protocols on that should be changed.

Less strictly speaking, I do have a problem with the FBI’s investigation, but it seems to me that those problems are appointed officials, not the FBI.

Dusty on April 24, 2013 at 9:37 AM

“Terrorist Supply Store — EBT Cards Welcome”

The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:44 AM

It is almost as if the Obama administration considers security vigilance itself a species of Islamophobia. The casual security on the anniversary of 9/11 at the Benghazi consulate — when others had shut their consulates down — seems to fit with that mindset. An administration that prides itself on better relations with Muslims tends to hesitate before taking any action that would imply the opposite.

ACLU-style Muslim groups have exploited the Obama administration’s Islamophilia to the hilt, demanding and frequently getting changes to security programs out of sensitivity to Islam. According to the mom of the Boston bombers, her oldest son even tried to convert visiting FBI officials to his jihadist Islam, which completes the picture of politically correct haplessness under Obama.

J_Crater on April 24, 2013 at 8:58 AM

YES. That’s liberalism to a tee.

I’ve known people that refuse to lock their doors at night, mostly nutty liberal women. Their theory is that if you don’t lock the doors, that you are thereby demonstrating trust in others that will somehow be returned in the way that they treat you. So if a burglar tries the door and finds it open, they will go elsewhere.

Some people really are that stupid.

slickwillie2001 on April 24, 2013 at 9:47 AM

IMPORTANT!!!

1) Glenn Beck has new information that he will reveal at 10 AM ET…he is hinting that the info he has will show that Big Sis has purgered herself and will go to jail, or that the evidence will show that she should go to jail.

LordMaximus on April 24, 2013 at 9:35 AM

Yawn. Nobody in this administration takes responsibility for anything. It doesn’t matter what Glenn Beck reveals, even if it’s 100% true.

The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:47 AM

The Rogue Tomato

Not true – Glenn Beck, Steve Emerson, Walid Shoebat, Rep. Duncan singlehandedly exposed and STOPPED the deportation of this Saudi National

Pay attention…there are those within the government (true patriiots) that are leaking this info to stop this Administration

LordMaximus on April 24, 2013 at 9:51 AM

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

You don’t actually think she was declaring this money to the government?

As a home health care worker, I’m sure most of her income was off the books.

sentinelrules on April 24, 2013 at 9:53 AM

Big Sis HomeLand InSecurity CYA!

Napolitano: Immigration bill would boost security
By ERICA WERNER
— Apr. 23 9:52 PM EDT
*********************

Napolitano disclosed Tuesday that despite the misspelling, the Homeland Security Department had known of the Russia trip because of

“redundancies” in the system,

but she praised the new electronic entry-exist system proposed in the bill. “It really does a good job of getting human error, to the extent it exists, out of the process,” she said.(More…)
=============================================================

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/napolitano-talk-immigration-senate-panel

canopfor on April 24, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Yawn. Nobody in this administration takes responsibility for anything. It doesn’t matter what Glenn Beck reveals, even if it’s 100% true.

[The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:47 AM]

Tamerlan’s name could show up on the WH visitor’s log and DC sightseers could have pictures of Michelle and Tamerlan in a snow covered, WH Victory garden testing pressure cooker bombs and the MSM wouldn’t give a hoot.

Dusty on April 24, 2013 at 9:56 AM

Dusty on April 24, 2013 at 9:37 AM

If this were a Republican administration the narrative would be completely different. A hapless national security community unable to detect the Boston Marathon bombers.

It this were the Romeny administration the narrative would be the same as above but since Romney was governor of MA, there would be something in there about something Mitt did during his tenure that put the Tsarnaevs on the path to becoming bombers.

But since this is the administration of a rat-eared Muslim-named socialist…… Nothing to see here folks. Hey look! aren’t those two dudes trying to get married?

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:57 AM

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

You don’t actually think she was declaring this money to the government?

As a home health care worker, I’m sure most of her income was off the books.

sentinelrules on April 24, 2013 at 9:53 AM

This is not a normal welfare-qualification situation. This is a separate federal program for immigrant political refugees with its own set of rules. It would not surprise me to find that they are much more lavish than standard state programs.

slickwillie2001 on April 24, 2013 at 9:57 AM

Tamerlan’s name could show up on the WH visitor’s log and DC sightseers could have pictures of Michelle and Tamerlan in a snow covered, WH Victory garden testing pressure cooker bombs and the MSM wouldn’t give a hoot.

Dusty on April 24, 2013 at 9:56 AM

You’re wrong. The MSM would give a hoot. We’d get a full report on what mooch wore, her hairstyle, and just how super awesome she is.

Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:58 AM

But the list is so vast that this did not mean authorities automatically kept close tabs on him, sources close to the bombing investigation said on Tuesday.

Vast? I guess that having 49% of the population on the list because they voted against his royal highness it would be hard to locate a single Muslim on it.

chemman on April 24, 2013 at 10:09 AM

Ed, sometimes I just can’t understand you at all.

This jihadi is getting welfare and you say it is nothing. It just amazes me. This exemplifies one of many things wrong with out system. It is far from nothing.

[GardenGnome on April 24, 2013 at 9:20 AM]

I can see Ed’s point within the narrow subject matter, which is terrorism and terrorists.

But I do think he was remiss in being fair. He should have at least said something like, “On the other hand, this does point to problems we have with the entitlements culture that we still haven’t addressed, and this is a good example of it.”

Dusty on April 24, 2013 at 10:10 AM

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

Somehow I don’t think “legally” was a big deal to Roadkill. Correct me if I’m wrong.

katy the mean old lady on April 24, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Another good question should be whether the TIDE database is useful for real-time national-security work. If it has gotten so large that it’s not able to keep the FBI informed on movements or allow investigators to keep tabs on its members, then perhaps the FBI needs more resources, or the list needs to get narrowed a bit. When you can’t watch the watch list effectively, how much preventive good can it do?

No! They don’t need more resources when they can’t properly use the resources they have now. It doesn’t matter if you keep funding losing, “green” projects or the FBI or DHS, you’re still throwing good money after bad and never fixing the problem.

Some of this turns out to be embarrassing but others turn out to be deadly. The worst thing is no one cares.

Vince on April 24, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Terrorist Supply Store — EBT Cards Welcome”

The Rogue Tomato on April 24, 2013 at 9:44 AM

Snort.

katy the mean old lady on April 24, 2013 at 10:14 AM

[Happy Nomad on April 24, 2013 at 9:57 AM]

Of course it would be different. The liberals/progressives in the media have little problem with putting their ideology above the good of the country or the rule of law. Drudge had a link up yesterday about reporters bragging they delayed the Capitol Police from removing a gun-control protestor who was disrupting the Senate. But that’s not all that surprising, since it one of their activists. What is surprising is their brazen display of activism under the cover of the news media occupation.

Dusty on April 24, 2013 at 10:19 AM

I happen to work for one particular govt welfare program and they take Mexican licenses as form of ID for benefits. One third of the clients here are not citizens of our country. When I tell people non citizens get benefits all the time they are shocked and can’t believe it’s true.
Yep. We’re the country that’s trillions in debt but house and feed non citizens. And borrow money from China to do it. We’re so smart. We’re gonna let them vote, too.

americanmama on April 24, 2013 at 10:20 AM

but otherwise, what’s the argument? Tsarnaev was a legal resident and apparently qualified for welfare; other welfare recipients also end up committing burglaries, robberies, and murder, as do non-recipients. This is one of those aha! moments that end up being about nothing much at all.

Immigrants should not qualify for welfare. Keep in mind his parents were on welfare prior to him becoming an adult. He just carried on that family tradition.

I understand the family was granted refuge status, but in my opinion, they still must be able to prove they can support themselves.

Every other country requires that of immigrants desiring to live in their country. Why shouldn’t we?

ButterflyDragon on April 24, 2013 at 10:23 AM

His wife worked 80 hours a week. Under MA law that means she was pulling down 3k+ a month at minimum wage. I really doubt they could legally get welfare with that kind of income.

Dr. Frank Enstine on April 24, 2013 at 8:49 AM

Somehow I don’t think “legally” was a big deal to Roadkill. Correct me if I’m wrong.

katy the mean old lady on April 24, 2013 at 10:13 AM

I wonder if the interest he expressed in fake IDs and the use of variable spelling of the family last name were used to get on welfare benefits under multiple streams?

Happens all the time. Women get on benefits under their maiden name in this county, and their married name over in the next county. They also get non-existent children on benefits. They also claim non-existent children on income taxes to get EIC.

slickwillie2001 on April 24, 2013 at 10:26 AM

Folks, it takes real money to be able to dress like a Russian pimp: Tamerlan Tsarnaev Influenced By Mysterious Radical Named “Misha”

slickwillie2001 on April 24, 2013 at 10:30 AM

What about our own citizens, we are becoming a nation of welfare. Exactly as planned. Come one, come all.
I think that the federal government is one big cluster and they don’t care as long as they grow and spend and continue full steam ahead with remaking this country into a leftist’s f’d up utopia.
The natural progression is for the power hungry crazies to cover this up because this story is every single government failure wrapped up in two nutball jihadists.
Jihad though, in the patriotic, although left, Boston, seems to be throwing a little monkey wrench into the works. The people of Boston seems more hellbent on healing from this horrific event than covering for the Feds.
Good.

ORconservative on April 24, 2013 at 10:35 AM

Neither was receiving benefits at the time of the bombing.

Well, that’ll pizz ya off.

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 10:42 AM

But the list is so vast that this did not mean authorities automatically kept close tabs on him, sources close to the bombing investigation said on Tuesday.

The Ruskies seem to have an effective system. Maybe we can hack into it? Maybe, kinda sorta “Occupy Kremlin”?

socalcon on April 24, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Does it? It’s certainly a great opportunity to call Tsarnaev a hypocrite, taking money from the government he apparently hated (the Herald front page headline: “WHAT NERVE”), but otherwise, what’s the argument? Tsarnaev was a legal resident and apparently qualified for welfare; other welfare recipients also end up committing burglaries, robberies, and murder, as do non-recipients.

Wasn’t he supposed to be trying to find a job instead of taking a taxpayer funded vacation to visit Islamist miltants in Russia/Dagestan/Chechnya for six months? And instead of trying to graduate from al-Qaeda’s internet based learn-at-home Jihad University, while probably trying to impress al-Qaeda recruiters with his “how to bomb an American marathon” project?

You don’t see anything wrong with the fact that he was making absolutely no effort to try to get off of welfare and support himself, that US welfare admin bureaucrats were completely unaware of this, and that instead he used the free time taxpayer money provided to plot the murder of hundreds of Americans if he could manage it? Because drug dealers routinely cheat the welfare system too, that makes this a ho-hum moment?

Orwellian socialist rot has penetrated deeper and farther than I thought.

farsighted on April 24, 2013 at 10:46 AM

Neither was receiving benefits at the time of the bombing.

The jihad brothers did not have jobs, so who was funding them?

Pork-Chop on April 24, 2013 at 10:55 AM

Napolitano has told Americans so many lies it is now coming to the light of day. She is a disgrace to the security of America. Why in the hell is she still in a position of authority! My God, this once great country is in a world of utter destruction because of the Obama’s administration leadership along side a willing Congress.

karlinsync on April 24, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Neither was receiving benefits at the time of the bombing.

If it doesn’t matter that they were on welfare in the first place, then how is THIS of any relevance whatsoever?

Cylor on April 24, 2013 at 11:22 AM

Yeah, why should Americans be outraged in paying for jihadists to live here why planning a terrorist attack …they weren’t getting any welfare payments at the time of the bombing…Wow!

d1carter on April 24, 2013 at 11:25 AM

Yep, let’s get going on that immigration reform. Throw some welfare reform in there while Congress is on a roll.

Cindy Munford on April 24, 2013 at 11:44 AM

Do you feel safe with these morons running the show? They’re all idiots.

Bishop on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM

We should be worried. Our enemies have been shown how vulnerable we are.

Are you serious, Ed? This is a huge deal. For days now people have been asking if the bomber brothers were receiving financial assistance from terror groups to fund their activities. Now we find out they quite possibly financed at least part of their terrorist plot with taxpayer dollars?!

This entire story is becoming a nightmare for the left. A national security failure by Obama’s DHS. A terrorist act carried out on US soil by Islamic radicals who were immigrants. And now to add insult to a lot of injury, they were on the government dole.

Doughboy on April 24, 2013 at 8:46 AM

dogsoldier on April 24, 2013 at 11:55 AM

sorry abou that last post. It’s slightly incomplete. I agree with you Doughboy.

dogsoldier on April 24, 2013 at 11:57 AM

“You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.” Abraham Lincoln

h/t thatsafactjack

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2013 at 1:21 PM

As much as I admire Lincoln, he didn’t say that.

The Ten Cannots came from William John Henry Boetcker in 1916.

rukiddingme on April 24, 2013 at 1:34 PM

The easy $$ available to immigrants from the US is what allows immigrants to come & stay here that should not be here.
The only immigrants that should be allowed in the US are people who can get a job & have desirable skills & unfortunate refugees. And the latter need to be vetted very harshly.
You should not be allowed to come here if you cannot support yourself.

Badger40 on April 24, 2013 at 8:45 AM
You are so right and it is so terribly obvious.

No doubt that is why it’s going “unnoticed” and not reported in that way.

tru2tx on April 24, 2013 at 8:54 AM

Not to Rubio.

Alabama Infidel on April 24, 2013 at 1:42 PM

This entire story is becoming a nightmare for the left. A national security failure by Obama’s DHS. A terrorist act carried out on US soil by Islamic radicals who were immigrants. And now to add insult to a lot of injury, they were on the government dole.

Doughboy on April 24, 2013 at 8:46 AM

dogsoldier on April 24, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Yeah, but after the MSM get done reinventing the wheel on this, it will be Bush’s fault and that will make perfect sense to the Obama voters.

Alabama Infidel on April 24, 2013 at 1:52 PM

rukiddingme on April 24, 2013 at 1:34 PM

Thanks for the correction. I will convey to thatsafactjack.

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2013 at 4:05 PM