The real lesson of the Gosnell trial

posted at 1:31 pm on April 21, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Now that the prosecution has rested in the trial of Kermit Gosnell, the defense team gets its chance to present its own case.  Needless to say, after the testimony from some of those in Gosnell’s inner circle about the conditions of the clinic and of the infants killed after botched abortions, that will be a tough task indeed for Gosnell’s lawyer.  One big question will be whether the jury will hear from Gosnell himself, and the Philadelphia Inquirer believes he may:

Overcoming this pile of evidence may seem insurmountable, but that is the job defense attorney Jack McMahon begins Monday. …

It is not known if Gosnell will testify. The Constitution does not require a defendant to testify or present evidence, and a jury may not consider that fact in reaching a verdict.

But given Gosnell’s past behavior, it would not be a surprise if he does.

From his first court appearance in February 2009, Gosnell has maintained an amiable, courtly demeanor that belies his precarious legal situation and the anger of some antiabortion partisans who have attended his trial.

He has rejected several plea deals from prosecutors, the last before jury selection started March 4. The offer would have let Gosnell serve life in a federal prison rather than the grittier Pennsylvania system and his wife, Pearl, 52, keep their West Philadelphia home.

“You’ll know when I know,” McMahon snapped on Thursday when Assistant District Attorney Edward Cameron asked for his list of witnesses, which he is required to file before beginning his case.

Generally speaking, it’s not a good idea to leave a vulnerable defendant open to cross-examination.  In this case, though, it’s probably a toss-up as to which is worse — not having Gosnell explain himself in some manner after the avalanche of testimony in the case, or allowing the prosecution to challenge Gosnell on every photograph and every account given in testimony for an anodyne medical justification for each act. To some extent, McMahon has already tried to establish justifications on each of the deaths during cross-examination, by claiming that the children were doomed no matter whether they were breathing or not, and that the breathing and movements were “involuntary” spasms from a dying fetus, not desperate attempts of an infant to stay alive.

Another question will be whether Gosnell’s defense gets more attention than did the prosecution for much of the trial.  Jonah Goldberg wonders whether the coverage will take the same character it has since the media got shamed into reporting on the case at all — as a media story rather than a murder case:

My fellow Fox News contributor Kirsten Powers wrote a USA Today column last week shaming the media for not covering the Gosnell case enough or, in many cases, at all. She got results. Suddenly everyone was talking about it. Though a dismaying amount of the coverage is about why there was a lack of coverage.

It’s an important issue, of course. But it’s not a complicated one. It seems obvious that most mainstream outlets are run and staffed by pro-choice liberals. But whatever the motivation, The Washington Post’s Melinda Henneberger is surely correct when she says the mainstream media are generally locked into a single narrative about abortion: “reproductive rights under siege.”

Ironically, the same factors that might have discouraged the mainstream media from covering the story in the first place now give them an incentive to turn it into a story about the media. CBS News, for instance, broke its broadcast boycott of the trial by running a piece on the political firestorm over the lack of coverage.

The debate over the national media silence over the trial is worth having, but is secondary to the real issue. Goldberg postulates that the media’s sudden bout of introspection is just an avoidance mechanism:

Many prominent Democratic politicians oppose any meaningful restrictions on late-term abortions. President Obama, as a state senator, fought a law that would have protected live infants accidentally delivered during an abortion. Sen. Barbara Boxer once said that constitutional rights begin when you bring the baby home from the hospital. Prosecutors almost never try to enforce violations of late-term abortion laws, in part because the Supreme Court says any abortion is constitutional if the mother’s psychological health would be endangered by continuing the pregnancy.

Regardless, Gosnell isn’t only being charged with performing illegal late-term abortions. He’s being charged with delivering viable babies and killing them. The really profound question here is what is the moral difference between killing a living baby that is outside the mother for a few seconds and killing one that’s still inside. It’s no wonder the media would rather talk about itself.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal’s Sherman Frederick hits the nail on the head.  In the end, the question is not so much about the few inches between life and disinterest in the law, but in the difference between life and utilitarianism:

If people focused on Dr. Gosnell, they would see the crazy horror of American abortion policy as codified by the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling. That ruling figuratively and literally splits babies in a vain attempt to avoid the obvious — abortion kills, whether it is in the last week or the first week of pregnancy. You can call it a fetus or, as the court said, “potential life.” But no matter what euphemisms we might use to soothe our conscience, simple science and staggering medical advances over the past 40 years render it all vanity. …

The grand jury report also notes that Dr. Gosnell kept in his office 20 to 30 jars filled with the feet of the aborted. That Mengele-esque detail aside, Dr. Gosnell’s story should spark questions about the difference between a 25-week-old “baby” and a 24-week-old “fetus.”

Medically, the answer is nothing, and the intellectually honest know it.

The argument for abortion in the new millennium has become the argument for politically correct infanticide. Not the “bad” kind of infanticide that selects for gender or against ethnicity, but the “good” kind of American infanticide that selects against the young for the sole convenience of the old.

That’s the inconvenient truth. Pay no attention to those jars filled with baby feet.

McMahon will spend the next several weeks trying to sell utilitarianism to the jury.  Let’s see if the media spends the next several weeks trying to sell utilitarianism to the nation.

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Armin Tamzarian on April 21, 2013 at 2:38 PM

24 weeks (or six months) is likely from Roe v. Wade, in which Blackmun put “viability” at 6 months. (Because in 1973, given medical technology, that was the earliest stage at which a preemie could be kept alive.).

Gosnell’s abortions were done after 24 weeks, but he changed the numbers on the size of the fetus (how development is often calculated) in the records to make it look like the fetus was under 24 weeks.

One of the witnesses testified to falsifying the records this way at his direction.

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM

What these pro death types know is: The Gosnell story will prove to many that not being born yet does not mean one is not human. They are scared shiteless of this story.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

The baby killers are afraid of their own nature. They find personal comfort in it. But if the truth of them be known to the general public…

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

For many of us abortion is a form of infanticide…

OmahaConservative on April 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Like it matters to you freak.These faux concerns of yours are truly transparent.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 2:58 PM

Rabbits naturally abort their fetuses when the food supply is short. So abortion does survival value. If abortion was so unnatural, it’s hard to explain the high infanticide rates during pre-historic times. Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Thuja, rabbits have “miscarriages” so that their body can absorb the nutrients that they would not be able to supply the baby. It is not “infanticide” because the rabbit does not have intent to kill the baby. It is akin to a woman misscarrying a baby.

When bunnies start taking coat hangers to themselves then you can make the equivalent that “abortion’ is natural.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Is there somehow a difference between what you condemn and what you accept?

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Is there somehow a difference between what you condemn and what you accept?

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Thuja supports killing babies after they are born…that is clear. He may not admit it but he does.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Thuja has some weird fascination with killing the unborn. When they find that Gay gene…he will wake up.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM

I don’t know how anyone who is gay can immerse themselves on the side of eugenic politics.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

There is a huge difference between spontaneous abortions and the termination of life for convenience sake. Most things are different from pre-historic times, it’s the true meaning of progress. Even in the recent past the social thought process of an unplanned pregnancy has changed with ladies giving up their child for adoption or even being surrogates, now considered noble. With every child’s body in the sewers of America, is the broken hearts of people longing to be loving parents.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM

I don’t know how anyone who is gay can immerse themselves on the side of eugenic politics.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM

The day is coming …and if they don’t think their liberal brothers and sisters with their self imposed one child rule won’t take advantage— they are kidding themselves.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM

Can the right simply open up an abortion clinic and televise in grisly detail every abortion including late-term babies on the internet 24 by 7, 365 days a year?

Heck, simply make it into a reality show.

My experience discussing in detail what abortion really is with those on the Left tends to be more persuasive in that it puts a question mark in their head. They really cannot think logically and ignore science when it does not support their utilitarian agenda.

Just buy a hamster and knife it to death right in front of them, and watch the horror. Then tell them that abortion kills a human child pretty much the same way. The hamster was an inconvenience anyway and not wanted.

KirknBurker on April 21, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Thuja supports killing babies after they are born…that is clear. He may not admit it but he does.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Liberals are sick.

Palin had a Downs child. Many on the Left said she should kill ‘it’ (that’s what they called the baby).

And somehow we Conservatives are the ‘bad’ ones?

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:05 PM

I wonder if thuja is willing to live completely like those of the prehistoric times…

or is it only appropriate when it comes to the subject of abortion/infanticide…quite selective I suspect.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Perhaps if Gosnell testifies, and the pro-aborts watch, preparing to fist-pump, as in “you tell ‘em, don’t let those mean old righties get to you !”, they might actually see themselves, and be dumbstruck.
Could happen.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 3:09 PM

For many of us abortion is a form of infanticide…

OmahaConservative on April 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM

No other word expresses the full significance of the act in my opinion.

fourdeucer on April 21, 2013 at 3:10 PM

He cut every corner possible, hired unqualified employees to work for him, and gave no thought to the conditions of his operation because his customers had nowhere else to go.

Armin Tamzarian on April 21, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Let me translate Dr. Gosnell’s Public Defender’s statement above into English:

“Dr. Gosnell isn’t to blame-his patients are!”

Why were your friends at Planned Parenthood looking the other way all these years? They had to have known this dude would make them all look bad, but they were incurious.

F-

Del Dolemonte on April 21, 2013 at 3:11 PM

another day, another gosnell post…and I’m here to try and poop it up like clockwork!

partisan on April 21, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Edited for accuracy.

Del Dolemonte on April 21, 2013 at 3:13 PM

Perhaps if Gosnell testifies, and the pro-aborts watch, preparing to fist-pump, as in “you tell ‘em, don’t let those mean old righties get to you !”, they might actually see themselves, and be dumbstruck.
Could happen.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 3:09 PM

I have come to the belief that the LSM have ignored the story until the defense presents its case. Then, among them, it will become ‘an issue’.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:14 PM

CW on April 21, 2013 at 3:08 PM

I assume that progress is both good and bad depending on how it works into his argument. Massive rationalizations are very convenient things.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM

I have come to the belief that the LSM have ignored the story until the defense presents its case. Then, among them, it will become ‘an issue’.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:14 PM

I gotta disagree, there is NO defense for these sick people and the lsm knows it. They will continue to ignore. IMHO.

VegasRick on April 21, 2013 at 3:17 PM

One major lesson of this case is that the Democrat Media shapes American public opinion just as much by what it doesn’t report as by what they do report.

Del Dolemonte on April 21, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Cindy,
I have a ? for you since you asked about bringing politics and guns into the medical office.

You’re an OB with an 18 years old new OB in your office. You just did a high resolution ultrasound pointing out all ten fingers and 10 toes on the 12 weeker and made a joke about it waving. At the end of the appt the patient tells you that vitamins won’t be necessary since she’s probably going to abort. What do you do? I tell her if she changes her mind, feel free to come back and give her an adoption pamphlet and a card from a safe abortion facility. Do you bring your personal belief and politics into the medical office?

Marcus on April 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM

On another thread, weeks ago, I said I used to be pro-infanticide until my wife told me, “We’re pregnant!”

It was at that instant I had to make a decision. That decision is my son, my daughter, and my three granddaughters.

A liberal mocked me for that. As if I was somehow some kind of ‘traitor’.

That is liberalism.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:21 PM

I gotta disagree, there is NO defense for these sick people and the lsm knows it. They will continue to ignore. IMHO.

VegasRick on April 21, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Good point there; something new to consider.

They don’t need to defend. They need enemies.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:23 PM

On another thread, weeks ago, I said I used to be pro-infanticide until my wife told me, “We’re pregnant!”

It was at that instant I had to make a decision. That decision is my son, my daughter, and my three granddaughters.

A liberal mocked me for that. As if I was somehow some kind of ‘traitor’.

That is liberalism.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Liam– I have worked with a lot of women who have had to go through counseling after abortion. A lot and I mean ALOT did not really feel the impact of what they had done until they were pregnant with their first “wanted” child, and heard the heartbeat.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:27 PM

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:21 PM

What happened to the legitimacy of ‘evolving’ on an issue ?
Reserved for lefties, methinks.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Liam– I have worked with a lot of women who have had to go through counseling after abortion.
melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:27 PM

The question a liberal baby-killer will never ask: “Why did she need counseling after that?”

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:21 PM

What happened to the legitimacy of ‘evolving’ on an issue ?
Reserved for lefties, methinks.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Old values are the best, time tested and involve the best Man can give.

Then liberals intervene to make it all ‘better’.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Marcus on April 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM

That’s a good question. I think you are making the right call. I appreciate the the dilemma of a professional in this situation and would probably stay neutral even if she asked my opinion. Now as a friend I would perform an entirely different role. And as professional, I would not personally accommodate her decision to abort. I do wonder how many of these patients you see compared to those struggling to have a child and their heartache when that isn’t possible.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:32 PM

most mainstream outlets are run and staffed by pro-choice liberals

You mean liars.

John the Libertarian on April 21, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Rabbits naturally abort their fetuses when the food supply is short. So abortion does survival value. If abortion was so unnatural, it’s hard to explain the high infanticide rates during pre-historic times. Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Agreed. Prehistoric people also got rid of their useless mouths when times were especially difficult. Let’s be thankful for murder in that we don’t have to resort to old school clan-cleansing.

Bishop on April 21, 2013 at 3:33 PM

The question a liberal baby-killer will never ask: “Why did she need counseling after that?”

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:30 PM

I don’t know how those folks live with themselves. They must be soulless.

VegasRick on April 21, 2013 at 3:34 PM

He cut every corner possible, hired unqualified employees to work for him, and gave no thought to the conditions of his operation because his customers had nowhere else to go.

Armin Tamzarian on April 21, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Except he and his wife lived the high life on the profits he gained from his volume business, living in a nice suburban house, and also owned a house at the Jersey Shore.

It’s not as if he was living in a third floor walk-up above the clinic, and plowing his meager profits back into the business.

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Do you bring your personal belief and politics into the medical office?

Marcus on April 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM

I don’t see anything wrong with explaining to the young woman that she’ll feel a whole lot better if she gives the child up for adoption. I’ve yet to meet a woman who didn’t deeply regret her decision to end a life.

John the Libertarian on April 21, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Someone should put a sign in front of a Planned Infanticide clinic — “Conscience-Free Zone”.

either orr on April 21, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I don’t know how those folks live with themselves. They must be soulless.

VegasRick on April 21, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Some are. some aren’t. Those with a soul hunger for counseling. It’s a mixed bag, and the baby-killers don’t want that matter touched.

THOSE are soulless ones.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:39 PM

it’s hard to explain the high infanticide rates during pre-historic times. Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Prehistoric people were nomads, who followed the food source (animals), and could not have the whole group held back (and starved) because a few members could not keep up or could not be somehow carried. Once they became agrarian societies, there was less need to abandon the sick, lame and weak. Agrarian societies didn’t need to leave the infirm elderly behind, either.

The hellhole that is North Korea is rapidly disintegrating into prehistoric times for the masses. Not only are they eating grass soup, but there are also reports of cannibalism.

Perhaps you were channeling novelist Jonathan Swift and his (satirical) solutions for the famine in Ireland?

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Some are. some aren’t. Those with a soul hunger for counseling. It’s a mixed bag, and the baby-killers don’t want that matter touched.

THOSE are soulless ones.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:39 PM

A lot of women have bought in to the whole leftist line that it a mass of cells and akin to getting a mole removed. That is why when they are carrying their first “wanted” child and hear the heartbeat; they realize that what they really did.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:44 PM

A lot of women have bought in to the whole leftist line that it a mass of cells and akin to getting a mole removed. That is why when they are carrying their first “wanted” child and hear the heartbeat; they realize that what they really did.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 3:44 PM

But they still need counseling. The baby-killers have never delved into that area. Those women are abandoned by the Left.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:51 PM

May I still go on record as saying most of the choice people could have made choices before the act of conception. I have no idea what accounts for such ridiculously high numbers of abortions with so many options available in our country. What is the driver here?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Do you bring your personal belief and politics into the medical office?

Marcus on April 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Do no harm.

Remember your oath …and yes keeping quiet is doing harm….no different than standing by and watching someone getting beat to death.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 4:01 PM

But they still need counseling. The baby-killers have never delved into that area. Those women are abandoned by the Left.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 3:51 PM

But not by the right. That is what Project Rachel is. Acknowledgment, repentance, forgiveness and support.

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 4:03 PM

Do you bring your personal belief and politics into the medical office?

Marcus on April 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM

The original Hippocratic Oath included a provision that the physician would not minister any abortifacient to a woman.

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 4:04 PM

The really profound question here is what is the moral difference between killing a living baby that is outside the mother for a few seconds and killing one that’s still inside.

Bingo. This is the MAIN issue. This is what the SCOTUS took from debate in the public arena.

The uterus used to be THE abortion zone. Woman’s body and what not. Now that’s creeped (slippery sloped?) to the doctor’s arms, then an incubator, or Mommy’s front door step. Maybe we can take it to first day of kindergarten.

That’s why I don’t trust abortion supporters or their arguments – because they know and I know they are taking a life. They first tried to b.s. it as just “a collection of cells” but now they are going for a “yeah, it’s a life, but it’s justifiable homicide” argument, with mommy’s “mental state” as an excuse.

A threat to a woman’s life does not mean one to her her social life, or emotional state/mental well being, etc.

Saltyron on April 21, 2013 at 4:04 PM

May I still go on record as saying most of the choice people could have made choices before the act of conception. I have no idea what accounts for such ridiculously high numbers of abortions with so many options available in our country. What is the driver here?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Too many don’t care. They get there orgasm or faked orgasm and all is good. Many dark souls.

What a country…One can get condoms at WalMart for goodness sake.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Laziness? Stupidity?

OmahaConservative on April 21, 2013 at 4:05 PM

But not by the right. That is what Project Rachel is. Acknowledgment, repentance, forgiveness and support.

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 4:03 PM

Liberals hate that.

Which says, to me, God never quits.

You know…What I think bugs liberals the most is that there is Someone far superior to them.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 4:08 PM

One can get condoms at WalMart for goodness sake.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Or at any convenience store or bar rest room. STD’s and abortion on the rise even with all our sex eduction. Liberal answer, start sex ed earlier. I’m pretty sure we’re doing it wrong.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 4:13 PM

What I think bugs liberals the most is that there is Someone far superior to them.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 4:08 PM

I think it bothers them that everyone is superior to them. I know Someone who can help them with that.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Let’s be thank for abortion in that we don’t have to resort to old school infanticide.

thuja on April 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

LOL, what you are saying is that abortion is the only solution to avoiding unwanted pregnancies. While ignoring that those unwanted pregnancies could have been also avoided by using birth control, or by other birth control methods, or by even not being sexually promiscuous.

F-

Del Dolemonte on April 21, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Del Dolemonte on April 21, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Doesn’t that make you racist?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 4:16 PM

But not by the right. That is what Project Rachel is. Acknowledgment, repentance, forgiveness and support.

Wethal on April 21, 2013 at 4:03 PM

Liberals hate that.

Which says, to me, God never quits.

You know…What I think bugs liberals the most is that there is Someone far superior to them.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 4:08 PM

Yes, that’s it exactly. There is Someone far superior to Liberals who always brings good from evil. They forget (if they ever knew) that Lucifer did not win out, either.

PatriotGal2257 on April 21, 2013 at 4:17 PM

I think it bothers them that everyone is superior to them. I know Someone who can help them with that.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 4:15 PM

They reject Him, Cindy.

The biggest thing they reject is that God is personal — between Him and we.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Yes, that’s it exactly. There is Someone far superior to Liberals who always brings good from evil. They forget (if they ever knew) that Lucifer did not win out, either.

PatriotGal2257 on April 21, 2013 at 4:17 PM

Liberals are always, “I know better than you on all things.”

Their basis is limited to them self-serving selves.

WE, on the other hand, have the Bible for those who believe, and the Constitution to encompass us all.

I see no solid ground on which liberals can stand.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Do doctors hang up their humanity when the put on their white coats.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 4:32 PM

The beatification of Saint Kermit begins tomorrow. My guess is those empty press seats in the court room will not be quite as empty.

Gator Country on April 21, 2013 at 4:33 PM

The beatification of Saint Kermit begins tomorrow. My guess is those empty press seats in the court room will not be quite as empty.

Gator Country on April 21, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Weirdly the same crowd will beatify the younger terrorist.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM

another day, another gosnell post…it’s like clockwork!

nonpartisan on April 21, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Yes, it’s as if it were a liberal blog, that hammered and hammered and hammered and hammered a topic over and over and over until people just give up and support their position and make it law without thought. You know, a reporting/political strategy that WORKS.

It’s about damn time he treated it almost as important as that life and death topic called “gay marriage”.

Saltyron on April 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Weirdly the same crowd will beatify the younger terrorist.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM

They’ve already started on that task.

http://twitchy.com/2013/04/21/pathetic-crazies-start-freejahar-hashtag-for-terror-suspect-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-sanity-hijacks-it/

Gator Country on April 21, 2013 at 4:48 PM

another day, another gosnell post…it’s like clockwork!

nonpartisan on April 21, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Yes, it’s as if it were a liberal blog, that hammered and hammered and hammered and hammered a topic over and over and over until people just give up and support their position and make it law without thought. You know, a reporting/political strategy that WORKS.

It’s about damn time he treated it almost as important as that life and death topic called “gay marriage”.

Saltyron on April 21, 2013 at 4:35 PM

So the partisan one comes in, drops a load and then runs away.

VegasRick on April 21, 2013 at 4:54 PM

What does this crazy guy have to do with putting the government in charge of pregnancy?

Nothing.

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

What does this crazy guy have to do with putting the government in charge of pregnancy?

Nothing.

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

A responsibility of government is to ensure penalties for willful murder.

You liberals have by your policies imposed yourselves on pregnancies.

the only reason you babies killers cry is because your guy got caught; you don’t want yourselves seen as you are.

THAT is what galls you.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Your own posts tell all of you, over a long time.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 5:17 PM

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

I assure…You WILL be quoted.

Liam on April 21, 2013 at 5:21 PM

What does this crazy guy have to do with putting the government in charge of pregnancy?

Nothing.

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

What does “putting the government in charge of pregnancy” have to do with anything?

Axe on April 21, 2013 at 5:29 PM

Guns don’t kill people.
Abortion kills people.

davidk on April 21, 2013 at 5:29 PM

like clockwork!

noforeskin on April 21, 2013 at 2:36 PM

…brain damaged!

KOOLAID2 on April 21, 2013 at 5:31 PM

What does this crazy guy have to do with putting the government in charge of pregnancy?

Nothing.

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

What crazy guy? Gosnell?

He is only the logical extension of your own worldview.

Own it, Murderer.

Guns don’t kill people,
Moesart kills people.

davidk on April 21, 2013 at 5:34 PM

Moesart on April 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Another dark souled ghoul.

CW on April 21, 2013 at 5:39 PM

Infanticide in this day is “good” in America but “bad” in India and China. All 3 are government sponsored and blessed in America, by Obama too.

Schadenfreude on April 21, 2013 at 2:01 PM

At lunch the other day, a lady at work was telling us that a friend of hers from China moved to the U.S. so that they could have another child. Another lady asked, kind of flippantly, “what would they do if they had a second?” as if she was saying “like they could do anything about it, so why worry about it?”

I said “Kill it.” Stone faced and serious.

She didn’t believe me. Luckily the other two ladies at the table backed me up. She still couldn’t believe me.

How do people not know about this?

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 6:33 PM

No, although botched abortions are not that rare. Pennsylvania law states that you cannot abort over what they consider viability-24 weeks. Gosnell was fudging the records and making every pregnancy under 24 weeks. The ones he actually got caught for he is getting charged with murder because yes he delivered and then killed them. He has an almost four decade history of negligence and malpractice – perforated uteruses, patients bleeding out, refusal to call ambulance etc. This man was dangerous and authorities knew it and did nothing.

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Actually, he was stupid and made every pregnancy 24.5 weeks. Is he being charged with violating state law for doing abortions after the state mandated cut off date as well as murder?

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 6:49 PM

May I still go on record as saying most of the choice people could have made choices before the act of conception. I have no idea what accounts for such ridiculously high numbers of abortions with so many options available in our country. What is the driver here?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM

The less potent the birth control pill, the more chance for an oops. PP gives the lowest hormone birth control pill available, counting on the fact that it will fail and the customers will come back for an abortion.

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 6:50 PM

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Good grief, I hope your mistaken about this. And, I don’t think PP accounts for that many people’s birth control source.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 7:09 PM

Sorry, Cindy, that is entirely true.
From the link:

Carol Everett was a part owner of several abortion clinics in the Dallas area, and now renounces abortion. She talks about the deceptive and predatory practices her clinics were involved in.

“Our goal was three to five abortions from every girl from the ages 13 to 18.” Everett describes a plan to “sell abortions by using sex education to break down the natural modesty of children, separate them from their parents and their values, and establish the abortion provider as the sex expert in young people’s lives. So they would turn to us when we would give them a low-dose birth control pill they would get pregnant on, or a defective condom.”

Everett admits that she was complicit in the killing of 35,000 babies.

Indeed, Pro-life pharmacist Patrick McCrystal says that low-dose 20-30 mg estrogen birth control pills, designed to minimize side effects, have a “breakthrough” ovulation rate between 2-10%. Progesterone-only pills have a breakthrough rate of 60-85%. Many of those girls and women will come back to the clinic, where they got the pills, to have an abortion. Cha-ching.

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 7:36 PM

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 7:36 PM

Was hunting that link, but you beat me.
Good job.
Have been exposing this since I learned of it, myself.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Actually, he was stupid and made every pregnancy 24.5 weeks. Is he being charged with violating state law for doing abortions after the state mandated cut off date as well as murder?

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Not sure.. It has been very hard for me to wade into the stories on this. From my limited understand, the death of the woman opened up the clinic and the records. Apparently the DEA and the FBI were also investigating the clinic for illegal drug use which is really what probably sparked them actually going into the clinic. They were only able to prove 7 babies were after the cut off and how they were murdered, but the belief is that he did this a lot more.

This is what I got briefly off Wiki:

“”[F]etal remains [were] haphazardly stored throughout the clinic– in bags, milk jugs, orange juice cartons, and even in cat-food containers … Gosnell admitted to Detective Wood that at least 10 to 20 percent … were probably older than 24 weeks [the legal limit] … In some instances, surgical incisions had been made at the base of the fetal skulls. The investigators found a row of jars containing just the severed feet of fetuses. In the basement, they discovered medical waste piled high. The intact 19-week fetus delivered by Mrs. Mongar three months earlier was in a freezer. In all, the remains of 45 fetuses were recovered … at least two of them, and probably three, had been viable.”[1]:20-21″

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 7:57 PM

melle1228 on April 21, 2013 at 7:57 PM
Grand jury testimony of clinic workers speaks of MANY more than just a few.
Being able to produce actual evidence isn’t easy, since testimony claims he’d destroyed a lot of records, etc.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Being able to produce actual evidence isn’t easy, since testimony claims he’d destroyed a lot of records, etc.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Just like Kathleen Sibelius’s health officials did when PP was in court.

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Good grief, I hope your mistaken about this. And, I don’t think PP accounts for that many people’s birth control source.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 7:09 PM

But the low dose birth control pills don’t have to just come from PP. Every time a new pill comes out, it is touting lower doses. Everyone thinks it is ok, but break through ovulation occurs at much higher rates.

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 8:17 PM

May I still go on record as saying most of the choice people could have made choices before the act of conception. I have no idea what accounts for such ridiculously high numbers of abortions with so many options available in our country. What is the driver here?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM

You know the answer, Cindy. It’s the lack of responsibility and proactive thought. This is a debauched and reactive society, only worrying about things after the fact and then expecting the problem to be “removed” with ease, hopefully by the government.

Using birth control requires responsibility and thought, even if it’s to go buy a package of condoms. Saying “no” requires even more.

And Lord forbid, actually having the baby and giving it up for adoption?? Inconvenient and goes against The God of Instant Gratification that liberals bow to.

So here we are.

kim roy on April 21, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Does anyone here know anything more about the OTC Plan B situation ?
Lost in the present shuffle of events, I suppose.

pambi on April 21, 2013 at 8:33 PM

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 7:36 PM

Why would this not lead to law suits?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 8:35 PM

kim roy on April 21, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Are we Rome or Sodom and Gomorrah?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Are we Rome or Sodom and Gomorrah?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 8:37 PM

There’s probably features of both here. We (as generalization for ease and discussion, of course) worship false idols – look at how we treat the word of a celebrity as more valid. I actually had some woman on twitter discount someone else’s very good constitutional points as being worthless “because he wasn’t a celebrity and never will be with that attitude”. Seriously.

Remember the mantra of “do it if it feels good?”. Well, now we have multiple generations with only that in mind, no ability to rationally think out a situation and honestly confused when things go wrong or no longer “feel good” – how else to explain the violence and stupidity?

We’ve seen people get set for life for videotaping themselves have sex and/or just being degenerates. Or have the “gangsta life” with very little real work. Why would anyone choose McDonald’s if those are the options.

These are generalizations and not everyone, thank goodness, is like this, but enough are and when the inevitable happens it’s really no surprise.

A disposable society with disposable/negotiable values? Is there really any difference between that and Rome/Sodom & Gomorrah?

kim roy on April 21, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Being undecided (but not apathetic) on this issue, I have to say that the reaction of the pro-abortion side of the argument to this has been disturbing and enlightening.

Count to 10 on April 21, 2013 at 9:23 PM

And Lord forbid, actually having the baby and giving it up for adoption?? Inconvenient and goes against The God of Instant Gratification that liberals bow to.

So here we are.

kim roy on April 21, 2013 at 8:27 PM

The child would also be likely to end up in the hands of conservative adoptive parents, and therefore end up a Republican voter, so we just can’t have that. Better to kill it.

slickwillie2001 on April 21, 2013 at 9:30 PM

slickwillie2001 on April 21, 2013 at 9:30 PM

Hmmmmm, maybe they will rethink it now that the child could go the gay couple.

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 9:57 PM

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 7:36 PM

Why would this not lead to law suits?

Cindy Munford on April 21, 2013 at 8:35 PM

The warning is on the box. Haven’t you seen Friends?

cptacek on April 21, 2013 at 11:24 PM

“…a jury may not consider that fact in reaching a verdict.”

A jury can consider whatever the hell it wants.

A jury may be INSTRUCTED by the court to not consider something, but those instructions are not enforcible because what happens in the jury room, stays in the jury room.

A jury could, conceivably, flip a coin and pronounce a verdict based on the outcome, and no one would be the wiser.

Anybody who pretends that a jury is bound by the rules that lawyers and judges are, is fooling themselves.

leereyno on April 22, 2013 at 1:51 AM

The child would also be likely to end up in the hands of conservative adoptive parents, and therefore end up a Republican voter, so we just can’t have that. Better to kill it.

slickwillie2001 on April 21, 2013 at 9:30 PM

Honestly, I don’t even think they get that far. It’s more of ME ME ME ME ME. It cut into my party time. Oh no, what about school? What about this? What about that? I might get fat. Life will get harder. I’ll have to grow up. Etc.

kim roy on April 22, 2013 at 2:09 AM

Biggest lesson of all: “Hey women, don’t sleep with a guy you couldn’t imagine yourself being a parent with!”

If more women thought this way, we would have FAR fewer abortions.

Legal abortion, far from being a reproductive RIGHT, is the greatest gift to irresponsible MEN ever, um, CONCEIVED!

Roe v. Wade legacy: Sex got easier (no need to worry about shotgun weddings). Babies got killed.

And women are not LIBERATED by any of this.

Nicole Coulter on April 22, 2013 at 3:08 AM

Obama may see in Gosnell a brother in need. They certainly have expressed the same philosophy on several occasions. Beer Summit!

trl on April 22, 2013 at 4:45 AM

There will be a special place in hell for defense attorney Jack McMahon. How do you defend evil?

Happy Nomad on April 22, 2013 at 7:33 AM

Combining a complete lack of conscience, a lukewarm intelligence, and a constant greed for money, this fellow would have made an ideal midlevel Nazi henchman.

claudius on April 22, 2013 at 8:36 AM

Under the heading “Never let a good crisis go to waste”….

If this were a conservative thing on trial, do you think the Dems in congress would play this as silently as the Republicans are now?

Really compare this to shootings at Sandy Hook. Very similar circumstances (mass murder of children). One generates votes in congress for a Dem pet project, the other….(crickets chirping).

dirtseller on April 22, 2013 at 9:09 AM

There will be a special place in hell for defense attorney Jack McMahon. How do you defend evil?

Happy Nomad on April 22, 2013 at 7:33 AM

Isn’t the worst of evil entitled to a vigorous defense? Or did I misunderstand how our justice system works in America?

gryphon202 on April 22, 2013 at 9:15 AM

one gosnell thread a day

for hotair grumps to outrage away

nonpartisan on April 22, 2013 at 9:21 AM

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