Getting to the bottom of this Miranda question for the bomber

posted at 7:01 pm on April 20, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

This has been making the rounds quite a bit over the weekend, including some of our readers talking about it from an article earlier today. Quite a few people seem to be concerned (fair enough) or outright confused (including yours truly) over the situation where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was not read his Miranda rights before being questioned.

As I pointed out earlier, there is apparently an exception granted under Miranda when public safety is at stake. But it’s rather ambiguous in terms of how we decide when the safety of the public is clearly in danger to a degree sufficient to invoke the exception. One protest over this is laid out fairly clearly. Quoting Joyner:

I have no problem in principle with an exigent circumstances exception to Miranda. I can envision situations where police simply don’t have time for this particular nicety because the public is truly in imminent danger.

This, however, does not seem to be one of those situations. I have no particular sympathy for Tsarnaev, who was given sanctuary in this country that allowed him to escape his war-torn homeland and have a much better life here only to, allegedly, terrorize the city he called home, murdering and maiming innocents. But there’s no theory of the case that I’m aware of that has the public in continued danger.

I’m afraid I have to disagree with Dr. Joyner on that one, at least to a point. When you’ve got two suspects (one dead) who were seen leaving and later throwing bombs and who left explosives in their apartment, the possibility that more nasty surprises are out there waiting certainly seems viable. And questioning the remaining suspect about it looks like fair game to me.

But a larger part of this question seems to be some confusion over precisely what sort of “rights” we’re talking about here. There is apparently nothing sacred about reading someone their Miranda rights unless you plan on using their statements in court anyway. Doug Mataconis explains.

Before getting into a discussion of the “public safety” exception, it’s important to recognize what Miranda does and does not require, and what the consequences are if the police do not comply with it properly. Contrary to the conclusion that most people are likely to gather from watching crime dramas like Law & Order, officers are not required to give the warning before they arrest someone and failure to give the warning will not result in dismissal of the case. Miranda is more properly seen as an evidentiary rule that the government must follow if it wishes to interrogate a suspect and eventual defendant and use whatever statements that interrogation elicits against him in court. If a suspect is not given his or her Miranda warnings and the state then attempts to utilize post-arrest statements against him, then the government will generally be barred from using that statement against him in Court. As Orin Kerr notes, however, the Supreme Court ruled in Chavez v. Martinez, 538 U.S. 760 (2003) that police may arrest a Defendant, fail to read him his rights, interrogate him, and obtain his statement as long as they don’t use the statement in Court. Additionally, the Court has held that evidence that the police discover as a result of a statement such as this can be used in Court against the defendant, which is radically different from 4th Amendment’s “fruit of a poisonous tree” doctrine which provides that any evidence obtained as a result of an illegal search, even indirectly, is inadmissble unless an exception applies.

It seems as if the big takeaways here relate to the fear that some have expressed that Tsarnaev might simply be let off if his attorney filed a protest over his questioning without his Miranda rights being read. He doesn’t legally have to have those rights read and will have no avenue to demand release over the lack of it. The only possible downside is that his statements might not be allowed as evidence in court. But the Public Safety exception could allow them to be used anyway, providing they don’t hold and question him for too long without taking that step.

Orin Kerr has a much more complete rundown of how this works, along with applicable supporting court cases. It’s worth a look, as I certainly picked up a few things there which I’d not realized before. In any event, it’s clearly too early to claim that law enforcement dropped the ball on this one, at least as I’m reading it.


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If you don’t think he needs his miranda read, then you are essentially okay with a drone blowing him up.

Discuss
lorien1973 on April 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM

My visceral reaction is to sit him in a chair with a bomb. That being said, we talk about the slippery slope all the time on these threads. This is the slippery slope. This case seems real easy to be classified as an “enemy combatant”, but when we start going down this road with our own citizens it gets easier and the burden of proof becomes less and less and that scares me.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:07 PM

Questions about “who else did you work with? Why did you do this?” and things that aren’t of a pressing public safety nature would not be exempt from Miranda.

- Cop of 12 years and a supervisor.

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:01 PM

If and only if the prosecution intends to use his answers against him. They do not.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:08 PM

In what language?

Seriously, some illegal with a DL will claim “no habla engles” and we suddenly have something the size of a passport to be able to drive a car.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:06 PM

Or, if someone is a functional illiterate.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Resist We Much on April 20, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Why am I not suprised with anything CAIR does..:(

PS..The GOP needs to form a group that is totally opposite of CAIR to combat CAIR..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Even if they do not tell him his Miranda warning he still has the 5th amendment right no remain silent, against incrimination and be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself. But if he says thing incriminating under the 5th amendment to crime which they do not know about he may not be allowed to be charged with that crime but if he talk after his Miranda warning he can be charged with more crimes than are already known.

It could be like amnesty to any unknown bombs and threats that are out there and not have any more charges to add to his 200+ charges he will currently have.

tjexcite on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Miranda is not really to protect the arrestee. It’s to protect the government employees involved in the case from being tarred and feathered by the public for losing cases because they violated the person’s Constitutional rights. Every time the police read it to the arrestee, they are reading it to themselves, too.

Dusty on April 20, 2013 at 8:07 PM

And that’s part of what I’m trying to say. It’s pretty tooth-grinding that it has to be this way.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Obama bows to the chicken hawk conservatives on the one. This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Why don’t you explain to us brainiac what the problem is here. Nobody has to be Mirandized to be convicted of a crime. Real life is not like the movies. Failing to Mirandized someone is not a get out of jail free card.

NotCoach on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Slippery slope.

If there were any other bombs about to go off, I doubt a terrorist would admit to it until after they were activated.

These arguments always get support from most of us due to Patriotism and the passions of the moment, and then various scum in the police, government and judicial system use these abrogations of our Liberties whenever it’s convenient for them.

What’s astonishing to me is that these attacks don’t happen more often. Our borders are meaningless (unless you’re a law-abiding citizen) and the “authorities” are too busy watching what TEA Partiers and Oath Keepers are up to to be concerned about real terrorists.

I’d also like to know why we’re not hearing more about this Saudi-person of interest-witness-turned to nonwitness-about to be deported guy?

Dr. ZhivBlago on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

From,the Boston Baseball game,earlier!

Dawn ‏@Gemini_Dawn 2m

Neil Diamond sings ‘Sweet Caroline’: http://youtu.be/ZAo_kM_z_38 via @youtube #BostonStrong
===========================

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canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

I can’t believe all this confusion.

You don’t have Miranda rights. Miranda was a case and its ruling was that you can’t use statements made by a person in custody against him at trial unless he was advised of certain rights, the so-called Miranda rights, before speaking. It is a rule of evidence. You don’t have a “right” to be advised and the failure to advise does not prevent the government from using your statements for every purpose except admission into evidence at trial. It certainly doesn’t mean you can have your case dismissed automatically.

So if the government doesn’t need the suspect’s statements to get convictions, but does need to get every bit of intelligence it can out of him, there is no reason to give a Miranda advisement.

novaculus on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Didn’t Obama drone an American that joined Al Qaeda?

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:11 PM

He is already being afforded due process rights under the law.
whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Depends.. The government both of the state of Massachusetts and the federal government only have a limited amount of time to hold the suspect before they charge him. The only way the federal government can hold indefinitely is if they list as an enemy combatant.

No “depends” about it. He is being held and questioned as the law permits.

Do we know if he has been formerly charged?
melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:56 PM

I dunno, but when he is arraigned it’ll be all over the news and, in that case, he’ll have been Mirandized and lawyered up (assuming a civilian, non-enemy combatant status).

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:12 PM

If you don’t think he needs his miranda read, then you are essentially okay with a drone blowing him up.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on April 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Wondered where you were. Now I see: Officer Training School. :)

Axe on April 20, 2013 at 8:12 PM

Or, if someone is a functional illiterate.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

No fair bringing up our trolls.

I do get the damned-if-we-do/don’t thing. Just completely frustrated that anyone in this country can plausibly claim they don’t know they have the right not to speak.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Miranda only applies if you plan on using any statements made in the trial. I would think a case that includes video of this terrorist planting the bomb next to an eight-year-old doesn’t have to rely on statements made by the accused.

I say it is better to ignore Miranda and pump this bastard dry of whatever can be waterboarded out of him.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM

If you don’t think he needs his miranda read, then you are essentially okay with a drone blowing him up.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on April 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM

Not sure how asking questions is the same as killing. Are the questions written on a brick?

Ronnie on April 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM

In any event, taxpayers will be paying for this scumbag terrorist for as long as he lives. Any amount of time is too long.

Philly on April 20, 2013 at 8:14 PM

How about if they wait until the guy wakes the fVck up? And is not whacked on whatever drugs they are giving him? K?

katy the mean old lady on April 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM

I think this is the reason the public safety exception applies, if for some reason the government wants to use his statements prior to advisement at trial. The government has a legitimate interest in making certain there aren’t any more bombs lying around or conspirators on the loose. Can’t do that until the guy is coherent and can be interrogated at length.

novaculus on April 20, 2013 at 8:15 PM

No “depends” about it. He is being held and questioned as the law permits.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:12 PM

You are far more trusting of the government than I am. Are you sure he is being “questioned as the law permits?”

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:15 PM

David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog 22h

Bombing suspect needs medical attention. #PagingDrGosnell

davidk on April 20, 2013 at 8:16 PM

I do get the damned-if-we-do/don’t thing. Just completely frustrated that anyone in this country can plausibly claim they don’t know they have the right not to speak.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Ayeah, the era where you can reasonably claim that the cops were going to phonebook a statement out of you is pretty well gone. It’s practically off the other end of the scale now and nearly every kid in every ghetto can recite Miranda like his favorite rap song.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 8:16 PM

This guy was laughing and smiling when he placed the bombs.
He was making snarky remarks on twitter the days following the murders.
He was flunking out of school and really was a bad student – not the future doctor his parents claim he was. He couldn’t even get above an F in chemistry for dummies.

His older brother had already flunked out after 3 semesters of accounting at a community college.

The uncle had it right — they were both losers.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:17 PM

You are far more trusting of the government than I am. Are you sure he is being “questioned as the law permits?”

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:15 PM

He’s not being questioned at all.

Ronnie on April 20, 2013 at 8:17 PM

I wonder if the older guy contributed to the support of his 3 year old daughter. I suspect he did not. The mother lived with her parents who I believe are a doctor and a nurse.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Or, if someone is a functional illiterate.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

They like to be called public school graduates. ;0

I suppose if we are going to have a phonebook sized DL then we can include wordless pictures like assembly instructions from IKEA. Happy stick figure walking down the street. Frowny stick figure meets cops. International “no” sign over stick figure’s mouth. Etc.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Just completely frustrated that anyone in this country can plausibly claim they don’t know they have the right not to speak.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Just give this kid an iPhone…
Or whatever it takes to tweet..
He will speak..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

I think this is the reason the public safety exception applies, if for some reason the government wants to use his statements prior to advisement at trial. The government has a legitimate interest in making certain there aren’t any more bombs lying around or conspirators on the loose. Can’t do that until the guy is coherent and can be interrogated at length.

novaculus on April 20, 2013 at 8:15 PM

This is probably the best reason – the most logical and legal reason that the government has for not moving any legal conviction along. I think they also want to stall until they get more information. If they charge him and mirandize him, then he can lawyer up and in which case he stops talking all together and the lose the choice to make him an enemy combatant.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Questions about “who else did you work with? Why did you do this?” and things that aren’t of a pressing public safety nature would not be exempt from Miranda.

- Cop of 12 years and a supervisor.

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:01 PM

If I read you right, those questions don’t fall under the pressing public safety on which they based their decision to not read him Miranda. The second question I understand, but why is the first question not directly related to the pressing public safety issue? isn’t that the most pressing question wrt public safety? That is, the ‘did you work alone or are there 100 more of you out there with bombs which will be used tomorrow” type of concern.

Dusty on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

No fair bringing up our trolls.

I do get the damned-if-we-do/don’t thing. Just completely frustrated that anyone in this country can plausibly claim they don’t know they have the right not to speak.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:13 PM

There’s no telling what a liberal judge will come up with. Some years ago, a man crawled under his jacked up car to do repairs despite big bright stickers telling to never do that. The jack slipped, the guy got hurt, and he sued.

The judge, a Carter appointee, gave him an award because the man was a functional illiterate who can’t read. I don’t know how things went on appeal, but the fact the guy won is as without common sense as crawling under a jacked up car.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Obama bows to the chicken hawk conservatives on the one. This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.
HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Why don’t you explain to us brainiac what the problem is here. Nobody has to be Mirandized to be convicted of a crime. Real life is not like the movies. Failing to Mirandized someone is not a get out of jail free card.
NotCoach on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

This must have also slipped the troll’s mind (such as it is):
Holder Backs a Miranda Limit for Terror Suspects
“The Obama administration said Sunday it would seek a law allowing investigators to interrogate terrorism suspects without informing them of their rights, as Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. flatly asserted that the defendant in the Times Square bombing attempt was trained by the Taliban in Pakistan.
Mr. Holder proposed carving out a broad new exception to the Miranda rights established in a landmark 1966 Supreme Court ruling.”

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Or, if someone is a functional illiterate.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

They like to be called public school graduates. ;0

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Or Precedent of the Harvard Lawn Review.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on April 20, 2013 at 8:20 PM

How about we cut off his morphine drip? That will get him talking, well, hopefully screaming, about the what and the who.

RovesChins on April 20, 2013 at 8:20 PM

What did you know about Islam and when did you know it?

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Just give this kid an iPhone…
Or whatever it takes to tweet..
He will speak..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Ah! But reading between the lines and speculting (hey if Shep Smith can do it so can I).

I think this guy was tweeting and texting all day yesterday. And I think the cops were monitoring it all. It would be a really big coincidence if his friends who drive around with Terrista #1 on their car just happened to be picked up by the FBI at the moment the bastard was surrounded in a boat in Watertown.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:22 PM

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:19 PM

I hear ya, Liam. We made ourselves one helluva pickle.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:22 PM

There’s no telling what a liberal judge will come up with. Some years ago, a man crawled under his jacked up car to do repairs despite big bright stickers telling to never do that. The jack slipped, the guy got hurt, and he sued.

The judge, a Carter appointee, gave him an award because the man was a functional illiterate who can’t read. I don’t know how things went on appeal, but the fact the guy won is as without common sense as crawling under a jacked up car.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Or giving a functional illiterate a driver’s license. I wonder how he passed the written test. Did he have an “X” for his signature? He must have racked up tons of parking tickets, unable to read the signs …

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on April 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM

Questions about “who else did you work with? Why did you do this?” and things that aren’t of a pressing public safety nature would not be exempt from Miranda.

– Cop of 12 years and a supervisor.

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:01 PM

If and only if the prosecution intends to use his answers against him. They do not.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Well, answers to those questions would not be admissible unless he was “re-Mirandized” and asked once again, under protection of Miranda. Then those second series of answers would be admissible but only those.

Also, how do you know what they intend or don’t intend to ask him upon formal questioning?

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:25 PM

I can hear AP getting ready to hit the town..
QOTD a comin’

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Didn’t Obama drone an American that joined Al Qaeda?

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:11 PM

Electrongod:)

Well ya,the clown in question,

was RightWing/RightThinking/LeaningWackoBird!!
(sarc)

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Invade every country? How about you have the guts to call a terrorist a terrorist and treat him accordingly? Is is because you want to defend your president no matter what? Protect every terrorist?

ndanielson on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

So if the government doesn’t need the suspect’s statements to get convictions, but does need to get every bit of intelligence it can out of him, there is no reason to give a Miranda advisement.

novaculus on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Yes, and no. It’s not just statements that could be excluded. As with the proverbial fruit of the poisonous tree, any evidence collected following such a confession can be excluded. If there are co-conspirators, their cases could conceivably be tainted by such statements.

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Joyner is right. It doesn’t take long to read someone their Miranda rights and it’s not like all the thousands of cops around all had to simultaneously dash off to look for bombs. It would have been so much simpler if one of the several hundred of rounds the cops had fired at him had hit him.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I really don’t care.about the “Miranda issue.” In fact, I’m perfectly okay with authorities interrogating him by “unconstitutional” means and completely destroying any potential for prosecution. Yep, I’m perfectly okay with him being released right out front door of a downtown Boston detention center and into the welcoming arms of the Boston populace.

Seriously though, what is this scumbag’s options other than full confession? He’s got nowhere to go. He’s dead inside of ten minutes anywhere on the planet- inside of thirty seconds in Chechnya.

M240H on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Or giving a functional illiterate a driver’s license. I wonder how he passed the written test. Did he have an “X” for his signature? He must have racked up tons of parking tickets, unable to read the signs …

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on April 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM

That’s partly why we have so many international signs and dumbed-down driver tests. But I’m sure he could spell his name — probably the only extra credit he ever got on a test. It seems the concept of gravity is what eluded him.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

No “depends” about it. He is being held and questioned as the law permits.
whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:12 PM

You are far more trusting of the government than I am. Are you sure he is being “questioned as the law permits?”
melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Unless you got info to the contrary, there’s no reason to think otherwise. Not a matter of trusting or not trusting anybody. It just is what it is, unless you know something different.

If you do some reading on what we’re speaking of here, you’ll see that, yes, this is as the law permits. I suppose even Wikipedia has at least the basics right on that, so you can check that out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning#Public_safety_exception

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

I can hear AP getting ready to hit the town..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I thought I heard the sound of spandex snapping.

Ronnie on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

A doctor involved in treating the Boston Marathon bombing suspect who died in a gunbattle with police says he had injuries head to toe and all limbs intact when he arrived at the hospital.

Dr. David Schoenfeld said 26-year-old Tamerlan Tsarnaev was unconscious and had so many penetrating wounds when he arrived at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center early Friday that it isn’t clear which ones killed him, and a medical examiner will have to determine the cause of death.

The second bombing suspect, 19-year-old Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, was in serious condition at the same hospital after his capture Friday night. The FBI has not allowed hospital officials to say any more about his wounds or condition.

The older Tsarnaev’s clothes had been cut off by emergency responders at the scene, so if he had been wearing a vest with explosives, he wasn’t by the time he arrived at the hospital, the doctor said.

“From head to toe, every region of his body had injuries,” he said. “His legs and arms were intact — he wasn’t blown into a million pieces” — but he lost a pulse and was in cardiac arrest, meaning his heart and circulation had stopped, so CPR, or cardio-pulmonary resuscitation, was started.

Schoenfeld did not address police’s assertion that Tsarnaev was run over by a car driven by his brother as he fled the gunfire.

The doctor said he couldn’t discuss specific treatments in the case except to say what is usually done in such circumstances, including putting a needle in the chest to relieve pressure that can damage blood vessels, and cutting open the chest and using rib-spreaders to let doctors drain blood in the sac around the heart that can put pressure on the heart and keep it from beating.

“Once you’ve done all of those things … if they don’t respond there’s really nothing you can do. You’ve exhausted the playbook,” he said.

After 15 minutes of unsuccessful treatment, doctors pronounced him dead pining for the fjords.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/medical/article/Doctor-Dead-bomb-suspect-had-wounds-head-to-toe-4450298.php

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:29 PM

US Flag at the Game,veddy veddy nice!

Vala Afshar Vala Afshar ‏@ValaAfshar 1m

Red, White, and Blue wall of pride at Fenway – April 20, 2013 #BostonStrong pic.twitter.com/nl2gH5rBVs
=========================================

https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/325767346255978496/photo/1

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Miranda is an advisement of your rights, not a right itself. It advises those taken into police custody of the rights under due process, against self incrimination, etc.

It isn’t assumed that a person knows their rights. If it were, we wouldn’t have Miranda to begin with.

Really, it all depends on the judge and jurisdiction the case ends up in.

If its some Libtard appointee, then any little thing that could possibly be conceived of as a mistake will be scrutinized.

catmman on April 20, 2013 at 8:29 PM

PS..The GOP needs to form a group that is totally opposite of CAIR to combat CAIR..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Well Michelle Bachmann kind of tried that but McCain and Rubio lynched her.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM

I thought I heard the sound of spandex snapping.

Ronnie on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

You heard it too :)

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:30 PM

I really don’t care.about the “Miranda issue.” In fact, I’m perfectly okay with authorities interrogating him by “unconstitutional” means and completely destroying any potential for prosecution. Yep, I’m perfectly okay with him being released right out front door of a downtown Boston detention center and into the welcoming arms of the Boston populace.

Seriously though, what is this scumbag’s options other than full confession? He’s got nowhere to go. He’s dead inside of ten minutes anywhere on the planet- inside of thirty seconds in Chechnya.
M240H on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

I’m fine with sending him to Gitmo for some friendly conversation with interrogators there.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Questions about “who else did you work with? Why did you do this?” and things that aren’t of a pressing public safety nature would not be exempt from Miranda.

– Cop of 12 years and a supervisor.

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:01 PM

If I read you right, those questions don’t fall under the pressing public safety on which they based their decision to not read him Miranda. The second question I understand, but why is the first question not directly related to the pressing public safety issue? isn’t that the most pressing question wrt public safety? That is, the ‘did you work alone or are there 100 more of you out there with bombs which will be used tomorrow” type of concern.

Dusty on April 20, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Well, my initial question and the added part about “100 more of you with more bombs” aren’t the same question, really. I still don’t think your phrasing of the question would fall under Miranda as, again, IMMEDIATE grave danger or potential grave danger is required. I don’t see tomorrow as being considered immediate when push came to shove in a court of law.

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM

PS..The GOP needs to form a group that is totally opposite of CAIR to combat CAIR..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 8:09 PM

I wish, but at their current competence level such a group would do nothing but give ammunition to the libtards and the head-choppers joke fodder.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Unless you got info to the contrary, there’s no reason to think otherwise. Not a matter of trusting or not trusting anybody. It just is what it is, unless you know something different.

If you do some reading on what we’re speaking of here, you’ll see that, yes, this is as the law permits. I suppose even Wikipedia has at least the basics right on that, so you can check that out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning#Public_safety_exception

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

I know about public safety and miranda rights. My concern is that they are stalling and using the public safety exception to eventually label him an enemy combatant. I don’t trust the government in general, but especially an administration that mirandizes people on a battlefield in Afghanistan but stalls to do the same with its own citizens. You can call me paranoid, but I find that behavior a little odd and suspect.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:33 PM

The really sad thing is, you think the Nidal Hassan thing is a travesty?

If we’re not till talking about this in three years and a trial hasn’t even started yet, I’ll be surprised….

catmman on April 20, 2013 at 8:34 PM

After 15 minutes of unsuccessful treatment, doctors pronounced him dead pining for the fjords.
Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:29 PM

You gotta give context for that for the younger HotAirheads here.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:34 PM

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

I heard that..Verrry Coool!..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 8:34 PM

I can hear AP getting ready to hit the town..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I thought I heard the sound of spandex snapping.

Ronnie on April 20, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Ronnie:

Spandex,…Oh p l e a s e…..,that was the sound of a
rustling cat food bag,pouring into cat food troughs!
(sarc)

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:34 PM

He was flunking out of school and really was a bad student – not the future doctor his parents claim he was. He couldn’t even get above an F in chemistry for dummies.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:17 PM

He was just ahead of his time. Just wait until ObamaCare is fully implemented and that kind of doctor will be the only kind you can get an appointment in less than a month with.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Obama bows to the chicken hawk conservatives on the one. This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Take a break and sober up, hal.

Then come back and sing Daisy for us.

[What the hell does obama and/or foreign invasions have to do with this, you dimwit?]

Solaratov on April 20, 2013 at 8:35 PM

If we’re not till talking about this in three years and a trial hasn’t even started yet, I’ll be surprised….

catmman on April 20, 2013 at 8:34 PM

+ 100..I agree fully..We will spend millions..:(

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 8:35 PM

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM

So based on your gut, RNE, not your training. Your alone in your cruiser, you got the guy. What does RNE say to him as your staunch the blood flow? Honestly, no gotcha question intended.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:36 PM

My concern is that they are stalling and using the public safety exception to eventually label him an enemy combatant.
melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Ah, that’s where we differ. I’d be fine with that outcome.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Another Uncle of BomberGoon weighs in:

The Associated Press The Associated Press ‏@AP 3m

Uncle of accused marathon bomber says older brother ‘used’ him, but hierarchy in plot unclear: http://apne.ws/ZGimlW -RAS
==========================================================

By ALLEN G. BREED, ERIC TUCKER and JEFF DONN
— Apr. 20 8:13 PM EDT

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/hierarchy-brothers-question-marathon-bombing

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Obama bows to the chicken hawk conservatives on the one. This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

That’s one thing that Obama is no longer leading from behind on. He’s right at the head of that band now.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Miranda says you have a right to remain silent and the 5th Amendment only says you have a right not to testify against yourself. It’s crazy.

I agree that merely not being required to testify against oneself doesn’t go far enough in some ways, but then you’d want to modify the Constitution. We sure as hell aren’t going to modify the Constitution to say that a terrorist has a right not to be interrogated about the dirty bomb he may have placed. “Right to remain silent” is the ultimate overreach.

Much of the Constitution needs to be modified. If we don’t do it, the black robed psychos will effectively do it, and not to the benefit of the good citizens of America.

Buddahpundit on April 20, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Unfortunately, this killer is still an American citizen.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM

NATURALIZED CITIZEN!

and that naturalization can be pulled at any time.

Solaratov on April 20, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Joyner is right. It doesn’t take long to read someone their Miranda rights and it’s not like all the thousands of cops around all had to simultaneously dash off to look for bombs. It would have been so much simpler if one of the several hundred of rounds the cops had fired at him had hit him.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:27 PM

You really need a primer on Miranda because you don’t get it. You’re not alone.

It’s not about the fact that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was not read his Miranda rights before questioning. He wasn’t afforded Miranda rights. At this point the little bastard does not have the right to remain silent. He may not blab but he can’t lawyer up either.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Uncle of accused marathon bomber says older brother ‘used’ him, but hierarchy in plot unclear:

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Mohammad is at the top of that hierarchy. He’s the big boss for muslims.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:40 PM

The real takaway from all this is that Obama and the Libs will get exactly what they want…

If in the upcoming weeks its conclusive that this kid was a Jhiadist, they *will* have him stand trial in a US court…However they *will* have no real choice but to ship his ass to Club Gitmo.

Of course, I’m also in favor of booting his ass out of a Huey Blackhawk at 10,000 feet into a shark tank with a bloody rib roast tied around his crotch…but that’s only because I’m feeling merciful…

BlaxPac on April 20, 2013 at 8:40 PM

NA

TURALIZED CITIZEN!

and that naturalization can be pulled at any time.

Solaratov on April 20, 2013 at 8:39 PM

I suspect that the Tsarnaev brothers will be a big part of the forthcoming discussion of immigration reform. And they should be. It is a legitimate part of an issue that has been hijacked by groups who only care about fast-tracking amnesty for the illegals.

Rubio’s hopes for higher office died on April 15th. At least as far as I am concerned.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:41 PM

He may not blab but he can’t lawyer up either.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Bingo!

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:41 PM

It’s not about the fact that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was not read his Miranda rights before questioning. He wasn’t afforded Miranda rights.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Well then tell that to Jazz Shaw. I didn’t make this article about Miranda.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:43 PM

Right now, for all we know, he’s in a coma. His injuries reportedly have him in a fight for his life, but little more information is being released.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM

My concern is that they are stalling and using the public safety exception to eventually label him an enemy combatant.
melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Ah, that’s where we differ. I’d be fine with that outcome.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:37 PM

Okay, what’s the significance of classifying him as an enemy combatant? Does that classification trump the Fifth and Sixth Amendments?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Referred to as both..

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Not unlike SSM…

socalcon on April 20, 2013 at 8:45 PM

NATURALIZED CITIZEN!

and that naturalization can be pulled at any time.

Solaratov on April 20, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Good. Then we should be able to kick that destroyer from Kenya out.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:45 PM

I suspect that the Tsarnaev brothers will be a big part of the forthcoming discussion of immigration reform. And they should be. It is a legitimate part of an issue that has been hijacked by groups who only care about fast-tracking amnesty for the illegals.

Rubio’s hopes for higher office died on April 15th. At least as far as I am concerned.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I agree. The older brother was a perfect example of the country not deporting those who commit crimes and how broke out current system is. Reform can’t work by giving amnesty to the million of illegals when illegals still include those that have committed crimes. If we can’t even follow the old laws a bunch of new laws aren’t going to work either.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:45 PM

How many of us have a view of juris prudence based upon the weekly recitation of the Mirada Rights by Sgt. Joe Friday?

turfmann on April 20, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Uncle of accused marathon bomber says older brother ‘used’ him, but hierarchy in plot unclear:

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:37 PM

There’s a video of younger brother planting that bomb next to an eight-year-old. There are before/after pictures of him with and without the pack that carried the bomb.

The issue of how much the younger terrorist was used by his brother should only matter in the sentencing phase of prosecution. And even then you can’t get beyond the fact that this guy planted a bomb with the intent to kill or maim as many people as possible.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Okay, what’s the significance of classifying him as an enemy combatant? Does that classification trump the Fifth and Sixth Amendments?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Means he can be held indefinetly without charges.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:47 PM

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM

As far as I know (not my question obviously) it only subjects him to the UCMJ and Geneva Conventions.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:47 PM

How many of us have a view of juris prudence based upon the weekly recitation of the Mirada Rights by Sgt. Joe Friday?

turfmann on April 20, 2013 at 8:46 PM

It’s a hell of a lot more accurate than L&O where the DA goes to the jail and interrogates the defendant while the defense atty just sits there.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 8:48 PM

turfmann on April 20, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Fail. 85% of those here have no idea what-so-ever a Sgt Joe Friday is. Gannon would faint if they did.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:48 PM

Good. Then we should be able to kick that destroyer from Kenya out.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Stow that sore-loser bullcr@p before you start a flamewar.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 8:49 PM

Meh.

Plenty of fuel provided by Obama/Holder for leftie pearl clutching.

BTW, considering the MSM was so artfully played this week, ain’t it obvious there is a massive intellect vacuum among those pushing this matter before the public?

Jus sayin.

socalcon on April 20, 2013 at 8:49 PM

How many of us have a view of juris prudence based upon the weekly recitation of the Mirada Rights by Sgt. Joe Friday?

turfmann on April 20, 2013 at 8:46 PM

Screw that. I want that magic forensics lab that cop shows have. They get almost instantaneous results for DNA and other tests that take far longer in the real world.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:50 PM

Okay, what’s the significance of classifying him as an enemy combatant? Does that classification trump the Fifth and Sixth Amendments?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Means he can be held indefinetly without charges.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:47 PM

So, it trumps the Fourth Amendment right to due process.

Who decides if a defendant is an EC? Obama, or Holder?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Rubio’s hopes for higher office died on April 15th. At least as far as I am concerned.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:41 PM

It remains to be seen if, like a skillful pol, Rubio can pivot this to security ( while continuing to hide the amnesty).

socalcon on April 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Good. Then we should be able to kick that destroyer from Kenya out.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:45 PM

Stow that sore-loser bullcr@p before you start a flamewar.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 8:49 PM

You think Obama will join in? I think he’s too busy golfing.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:55 PM

85% of those here have no idea what-so-ever a Sgt Joe Friday is. Gannon would faint if they did.
Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:48 PM

So would Frank Smith.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Right now, for all we know, he’s in a coma. His injuries reportedly have him in a fight for his life, but little more information is being released.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Which is why I think they are slow rolling the issue. It doesn’t matter if the perp can’t even talk. He wouldn’t have been read his Miranda rights last night anyway if he were not capable of being questioned.

IMO, the little bastard is lucky the homeowner noticed something amiss with his boat. Had he not, I suspect that he would have had a very unpleasant surprise when he took it out of winter storage. With the media in countless speculation as to where the terrorist had escaped to.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:56 PM

It remains to be seen if, like a skillful pol, Rubio can pivot this to security ( while continuing to hide the amnesty).

socalcon on April 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM

He’s too clumsy. He’ll trip on his tongue or on a taco or something.

VorDaj on April 20, 2013 at 8:56 PM

So, it trumps the Fourth Amendment right to due process.

Who decides if a defendant is an EC? Obama, or Holder?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:52 PM

Not sure, in recent history it has only been done with one other American Jose Padilla. PRes. Bush actually classified him as one. He was held for three years without charges and interrogated. After pressure, he was then given a civilian trial.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:58 PM

It remains to be seen if, like a skillful pol, Rubio can pivot this to security ( while continuing to hide the amnesty).

socalcon on April 20, 2013 at 8:54 PM

Given his performance on Rush Limbaugh’s show, I would say no. He essentially called any opponent of this scheme stupid. That we just don’t get what a great deal he cut with Chuck Schumer. Punted completely on the fact that this bill backdates eligibility to include all those who have been previously deported who otherwise meet the criteria as the illegals still here.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:59 PM

So, it trumps the Fourth Amendment right to due process.

Who decides if a defendant is an EC? Obama, or Holder?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:52 PM
Not sure, in recent history it has only been done with one other American Jose Padilla. PRes. Bush actually classified him as one. He was held for three years without charges and interrogated. After pressure, he was then given a civilian trial.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:58 PM

The rest of the enemy combatants have been easier such as those caught on battlefields and foreigners.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:59 PM

Which is why I think they are slow rolling the issue. It doesn’t matter if the perp can’t even talk. He wouldn’t have been read his Miranda rights last night anyway if he were not capable of being questioned.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:56 PM

You’re quite right. But the Left is going to milk this this for all it’s worth, the criminal coddlers that they are.

But if he’s in a coma, I’d like to be there when he wakes up to learn he’s in Beth Israel Hospital. LOL

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 8:59 PM

So, it trumps the Fourth Amendment right to due process.

Who decides if a defendant is an EC? Obama, or Holder?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 8:52 PM

The NDAA spells it out very clearly.

ButterflyDragon on April 20, 2013 at 9:00 PM

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