Getting to the bottom of this Miranda question for the bomber

posted at 7:01 pm on April 20, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

This has been making the rounds quite a bit over the weekend, including some of our readers talking about it from an article earlier today. Quite a few people seem to be concerned (fair enough) or outright confused (including yours truly) over the situation where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was not read his Miranda rights before being questioned.

As I pointed out earlier, there is apparently an exception granted under Miranda when public safety is at stake. But it’s rather ambiguous in terms of how we decide when the safety of the public is clearly in danger to a degree sufficient to invoke the exception. One protest over this is laid out fairly clearly. Quoting Joyner:

I have no problem in principle with an exigent circumstances exception to Miranda. I can envision situations where police simply don’t have time for this particular nicety because the public is truly in imminent danger.

This, however, does not seem to be one of those situations. I have no particular sympathy for Tsarnaev, who was given sanctuary in this country that allowed him to escape his war-torn homeland and have a much better life here only to, allegedly, terrorize the city he called home, murdering and maiming innocents. But there’s no theory of the case that I’m aware of that has the public in continued danger.

I’m afraid I have to disagree with Dr. Joyner on that one, at least to a point. When you’ve got two suspects (one dead) who were seen leaving and later throwing bombs and who left explosives in their apartment, the possibility that more nasty surprises are out there waiting certainly seems viable. And questioning the remaining suspect about it looks like fair game to me.

But a larger part of this question seems to be some confusion over precisely what sort of “rights” we’re talking about here. There is apparently nothing sacred about reading someone their Miranda rights unless you plan on using their statements in court anyway. Doug Mataconis explains.

Before getting into a discussion of the “public safety” exception, it’s important to recognize what Miranda does and does not require, and what the consequences are if the police do not comply with it properly. Contrary to the conclusion that most people are likely to gather from watching crime dramas like Law & Order, officers are not required to give the warning before they arrest someone and failure to give the warning will not result in dismissal of the case. Miranda is more properly seen as an evidentiary rule that the government must follow if it wishes to interrogate a suspect and eventual defendant and use whatever statements that interrogation elicits against him in court. If a suspect is not given his or her Miranda warnings and the state then attempts to utilize post-arrest statements against him, then the government will generally be barred from using that statement against him in Court. As Orin Kerr notes, however, the Supreme Court ruled in Chavez v. Martinez, 538 U.S. 760 (2003) that police may arrest a Defendant, fail to read him his rights, interrogate him, and obtain his statement as long as they don’t use the statement in Court. Additionally, the Court has held that evidence that the police discover as a result of a statement such as this can be used in Court against the defendant, which is radically different from 4th Amendment’s “fruit of a poisonous tree” doctrine which provides that any evidence obtained as a result of an illegal search, even indirectly, is inadmissble unless an exception applies.

It seems as if the big takeaways here relate to the fear that some have expressed that Tsarnaev might simply be let off if his attorney filed a protest over his questioning without his Miranda rights being read. He doesn’t legally have to have those rights read and will have no avenue to demand release over the lack of it. The only possible downside is that his statements might not be allowed as evidence in court. But the Public Safety exception could allow them to be used anyway, providing they don’t hold and question him for too long without taking that step.

Orin Kerr has a much more complete rundown of how this works, along with applicable supporting court cases. It’s worth a look, as I certainly picked up a few things there which I’d not realized before. In any event, it’s clearly too early to claim that law enforcement dropped the ball on this one, at least as I’m reading it.


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Bishop?

Genuine on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Obama bows to the chicken hawk conservatives on the one. This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

If he’s an American citizen, he gets Miranda unless he is actively engaged on the field of battle. If the situation is ‘hot’ you can be nailed without warning, that’s just the way it is. But he wasn’t.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:03 PM

This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Would you perhaps consider that your boy-king is such an obvious weakling that the military lobby could easily have sat down and told him what his foreign policy would be?

Because it’s either that, he doesn’t actually care (Obama lying? naaah.), or he’s found it profitable.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:05 PM

I’m afraid I have to disagree with Dr. Joyner on that one, at least to a point. When you’ve got two suspects (one dead) who were seen leaving and later throwing bombs and who left explosives in their apartment, the possibility that more nasty surprises are out there waiting certainly seems viable. And questioning the remaining suspect about it looks like fair game to me.

Where does it end Jazz? Unfortunately, this killer is still an American citizen.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM

Excuse the pun but this Miranda thing all might be a mute point. According to CBS White Hat’s neck would was a self inflicted gunshot wound to the mouth that exited his neck. He might never speak. This boy has so much luck he should have been playing the lotto instead making bombs.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:07 PM

They should have taken his skinny arse from that yard next to the boat STRAIGHT to GITMO and water-boarded the out of him.

RealMc on April 20, 2013 at 7:08 PM

I think the not reading him rights ends after one question has been satisfactorily answered; are there any more bombs or bombers?

Tater Salad on April 20, 2013 at 7:09 PM

If he’s an American citizen, he gets Miranda unless he is actively engaged on the field of battle. If the situation is ‘hot’ you can be nailed without warning, that’s just the way it is. But he wasn’t.

There is no law that Miranda must be read to a citizen. Police do it in case the perp decides to confess. In this case both of them already confessed and bragged to the gentleman whose SUV they carjacked. Plus, the police have the video showing at least the young punk setting his backpack down in front of the crowd. They won’t show this video in its entirety until trial.

booger71 on April 20, 2013 at 7:09 PM

I think the not reading him rights ends after one question has been satisfactorily answered; are there any more bombs or bombers?

Tater Salad on April 20, 2013 at 7:09 PM

This is true. Miranda is, let’s be honest, a very nice pleasantry of modern civilization. It is not a suicide pact or a writ of immunity while fuses are still sizzling.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:10 PM

Asked without Miranda: “Any more bombs out there?”

Answer: “No,” or silence.

That’s the end of it. Then read him rights. If he lied and there were more bombs that are found or go off, I’m sure forensics can pin them to him if applicable.

But we know all the trolls are going to harp on this, not that he and his brother set off bombs and there’s plenty of evidence supporting it. That’s all liberals will focus on in their usual whiny tone: “You didn’t read him his rights!” By now, though, and if he is conscious and responsive, those rights have been read. I doubt even Obama’s DOJ could be that incompetent.

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 7:10 PM

They don’t need to use any un-Mirandized statements in court against him. He already has a ton of charges against him that will be easily proved. Plus, an un-Mirandized statement can be used against other parties – just not him.

Also, don’t be surprised if his atty does file some sort of motion whining about him not being Mirandized. That’s what attys do — just to cover their bases. It won’t go anywhere, I assure you.

This is really a big to-do over nothing.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 7:11 PM

I hate to say it, but read the little bastard his rights.

You don’t know what you truly believe in until it becomes hard to live up to those beliefs.

There’s no doubt that he will be convicted, he can trade info on his friends for a softer mattress once he’s stuck in a concrete closet in ADX Florence.

Alberta_Patriot on April 20, 2013 at 7:12 PM

booger71 on April 20, 2013 at 7:09 PM

Correct. Miranda warnings are just an evidentiary rule regarding the admissibility of the defendant’s admissions/statements at trial. They are not a right.

Captain Kirock on April 20, 2013 at 7:15 PM

As soon as he is arraigned, he will be assigned an atty and the issue of him being read his rights is moot.

As far as I’m concerned, it was and continues to be a nonissue.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 7:16 PM

The laughable cacophony of outrage from those that get their legal theory from television and their moral compass from Facebook. “Miranda” was a case law decision, and is only a “right” if authorities wish statements to pass judicial scrutiny for evidentiary admission. If not, ask away.

sgtstogie on April 20, 2013 at 7:17 PM

The Sunday Lefty Talky Shows,should be in full Lib Talking Point(s)
on this tomorrow!!

Can’t wait for the confusion/misspeak/and clarification OverLoad OverDrive!

And,will it be D.C.Democrat/Debbie Smart*ssHerrShultenzee running
the gauntlet!
(sarc).

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Just like Obama was making soldiers read the Miranda warning to enemy combatants (does not make sense because they were not American citizens) – I am sure someone from the Obama administration got on the horn to Boston PD and told them NOT to read the bomber the Miranda warning…..

I bet if he lives – he will be deported. You see Obama likes to have it ALL ways…..

redguy on April 20, 2013 at 7:20 PM

This situation is going to go FUBAR very quickly..And we (taxpayers) will spend millions on this terrorist..:(

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:20 PM

Could folks please at least read the legal analyses of Kerr and others that are referenced here and elsewhere before reacting?

I too thought he should be “read his rights” until I read them.

As I referenced when this topic was first introduced, Kerr makes three points.

Start with this one:

1) A lot of people assume that the police are required to read a suspect his Miranda rights upon arrest. That is, they assume that one of a person’s rights is the right to be read their rights. It often happens that way on Law & Order, but that’s not what the law actually requires. The police aren’t required to follow Miranda. Miranda is a set of rules the government can chose to follow if they want to admit a person’s statements in a criminal case in court, not a set of rules they have to follow in every case…

Drained Brain on April 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM

If he’s an American citizen, he gets Miranda unless he is actively engaged on the field of battle. If the situation is ‘hot’ you can be nailed without warning, that’s just the way it is. But he wasn’t.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:03 PM

This is exactly wrong. Did you bother reading the post?

righty45 on April 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM

A lot of people are confusing imminent with immediate. There is clearly an imminent danger and no way anyone could argue otherwise.

ButterflyDragon on April 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM

He was a coward who bombed innocents. He was a coward who ambushed a police officer.He was a coward when he abandoned his brother. He was a coward who couldn’t even shoot himself properly. He was a coward who put up his hands meekly. He’ll be a coward when asked any questions. I agree with others, there is enough on him to at least keep him in a box until Allah is ready to give him his room key in hell.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Obama bows to the chicken hawk conservatives on the one. This is one thing i cannot stand about him. Constantly bowing to the far right and their invade every country possible policies.
HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:02 PM

The secret is out!
Yes, Obama is under the control of the “far right”.
After years of training him as a GOP plant your astute investigative abilities have uncovered our top secret plot. It’s only your tinfoil hat that’s kept you safe from also falling under Republican mind control.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM

There is clearly an imminent danger and no way anyone could argue otherwise.

ButterflyDragon on April 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM

Our trolls haven’t convinced you yet that’s not exactly true? :-)

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Without any post arrest non Mirandized statements from him, the feds have him on:

possession of explosives
mulitple murders and assaults by explosives and gunfire
aggravated carjacking
aggravated kidnapping

All they want to know is if there are any more explosive devices out there that might hurt people and if there are additional jihadis waiting to do their jihadi thang.

They don’t need to make any deals with him. And again, as soon as he appears in court the entire issue regarding Miranda is moot.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 7:24 PM

MeanWhile,the dust hasn’t even settled yet,and viola:

FBI says they have arrested an Illinois man on terrorism-related charges for trying to join an al-Qaida-linked group in Syria – @AP

12 mins ago from bigstory.ap.org by editor
==============================================

By MICHAEL TARM
— Apr. 20 7:19 PM EDT

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/fbi-ill-man-planned-join-syrian-extremists

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:26 PM

We already have an abundance of evidence to convict this guy. What we need to know is what he knows about the terrorist network. So don’t comply with Miranda and go for the terrorist info.

petefrt on April 20, 2013 at 7:26 PM

How about if they wait until the guy wakes the fVck up? And is not whacked on whatever drugs they are giving him? K?

katy the mean old lady on April 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM

I chose to ignore the Lib.
Its post was another “it must be Bush’s fault for Lord Obama to not CoExist”

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM

This situation is going to go FUBAR very quickly..And we (taxpayers) will spend millions on this terrorist..:(

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:20 PM

Dire Straits: Good Evening Dire—————-:)

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:28 PM

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:26 PM

Yup, I suspect this is just the beginning. And when you see the crap happening in other countries, our security has been living on borrowed time.

petefrt on April 20, 2013 at 7:28 PM

Drained Brain on April 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM

I thought I remembered that Miranda rights were not necessary in every arrest.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:29 PM

And isn’t it Miranda warning and not Miranda rights?

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Dire Straits: Good Evening Dire—————-:)

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:28 PM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:30 PM

It would be a lot easier to take this seriously if anyone anywhere had any right to be read a subset of their rights at any time. The word “right” doesn’t belong anywhere near “Miranda.”

– but, be that as it may, if this doesn’t qualify as a “skip it” situation, there probably isn’t one. The window can’t be so narrow that it’s defined by, “were you physically capable of doing it, somehow?”

– but, this is beyond tortius interference with a contract, and inclusio unius exclusio alterius, so I’ll just lurk this one and wait to be unpleasantly surprised.

Axe on April 20, 2013 at 7:31 PM

He’s looking at either death or life without the possibility of parole. I prefer death since lwop can always be commuted and he released. You think that will not happen but wait 40 years. I’m already reading that his brother forced him to do this. The abolitionist types are also trying to get rid of lwop and even life sentences.

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 7:31 PM

Holder took a lot of heat over Mirandizing the underpants bomber too early, and not all of it was from the Right. Their obvious rush to make a political gesture demonstrated ignorance and incompetence. Ample evidence existed to support conviction without the defendant’s statements, and the value of national security intelligence lost clearly outweighed any usefulness of his statements as evidence.

Same case here. They don’t need this guy’s statements to convict him. They do need to know everything about how this terrorism went down. There isn’t any reason to Mirandize this guy.

Now, at some point they have to charge him with something or let him go. When he appears in court, he will be advised.

novaculus on April 20, 2013 at 7:31 PM

This is only part of the question, the rest is that many want to deny this dolt his Constitutional Rights, and declare him an Enemy Combatant, send him to Club Gitmo, and crank up the “enhanced interrogation” and be done with him.

The Constitution is not a dream, it is the foundation of our system of Government, or not. It is to be held sacred, or it is nothing. Even terrorists who set off bombs, if they are citizens, and caught here in the country, deserve full and complete protection of the Constitutional rights. Even if they are NOT CITIZENS. We find it too easy to ignore our rules, and make excuses. We have gone from JFK’s We’re doing this because it’s hard, to wouldn’t it be easier?

Snake307 on April 20, 2013 at 7:31 PM

katy the mean old lady on April 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM

Good point..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:32 PM

OT/

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:30 PM

DIRE! Hoped to see you. Peep this. This is just wrong, man. :)

Axe on April 20, 2013 at 7:33 PM

KAOS at Pot Rally!!

Colorado marijuana law

3 injured by shots fired in Denver’s Civic Center during pot rally; 2 victims appear to have wounds to their legs, paramedics say – @denverpost

7 mins ago from http://www.denverpost.com by editor
================================================

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23070899/shots-fired-denvers-civic-center-after-pot-rally

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:26 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, ‘bud…

OmahaConservative on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

I really detest agreeing with the ACLU on this one but not reading the rights will become routine with law enforcement if their feet are not held to the fire.

I’m not really seeing the ‘public safety’ issue here. He was captured, his brother was dead and not reading the rights was not likely to reveal any information they could not have got if Miranda was followed.

Besides, not READING the rights does not mean the suspect doesn’t HAVE the rights. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev could have invoked the right to remain silent, Miranda or no Miranda.

A criminal suspect HAS the rights whether Miranda is given or not.

Axion on April 20, 2013 at 7:36 PM

And isn’t it Miranda warning and not Miranda rights?

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Yup

katy the mean old lady on April 20, 2013 at 7:36 PM

And I’m sick and tired of this whole Miranda thing anyway. I don’t believe that any American doesn’t know they can shut up and ask for an attorney. The boy took civics in HS. The boy took citizenship classes in order to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I am expected to know I’m breaking the law even if I haven’t read the law. Schroom this puke and this dog and pony show of his Miranda warning.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM

3 injured by shots fired in Denver’s Civic Center during pot rally; 2 victims appear to have wounds to their legs, paramedics say – @denverpost

7 mins ago from http://www.denverpost.com by editor
================================================

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Don’t toke and carry..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM

KAOS at Pot Rally!!

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

I don’t know why, but this made me laugh! :)

MustLoveBlogs on April 20, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Where does it end Jazz? Unfortunately, this killer is still an American citizen.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM

It should end with having the guts to name what this American citizen did an act of terror. Then he becomes an enemy combatant. With all the rights and privileges therein. But your president is gutless. And as you have already alluded, your president bows to the far-right. I think that effectively makes him a coward. Don’t you?

ndanielson on April 20, 2013 at 7:38 PM

Boston Marathon explosion

Friend says suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev ‘acted like nothing happened’ one day after bombings – @ABC

6 mins ago from abcnews.go.com by editor

Video:
======

http://abcnews.go.com/US/umass-dartmouth-friend-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-acted-happened-day/story?id=19005157#.UXMmqkozRIF

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:39 PM

This is exactly wrong. Did you bother reading the post?

righty45 on April 20, 2013 at 7:21 PM

Sheesh. So much for reading comprehension.

When I said battlefield, I darn well MEANT a battlefield, as in an area where war has been declared and the people we have are wearing camo and carrying assault rifles instead of blue uniforms and pistols.

The rules for that must be different than the rules for LEO’s or we will pay the price in blood. Fortunately for that worthless punk, he was an American on American soil, alone, and wasn’t toting an AK-47.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:40 PM

KAOS at Pot Rally!!

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

I don’t know why, but this made me laugh! :)

MustLoveBlogs on April 20, 2013 at 7:38 PM

The irony is quite amusing!

Liam on April 20, 2013 at 7:40 PM

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM

I chose to ignore the Lib.
Its post was another “it must be Bush’s fault for Lord Obama to not CoExist”
Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM

Shhhh! The sleuth already knows that Obama is really a right-wing Manchurian candidate. We can’t risk him also finding out that Obama is under the direct control of GWB himself!!

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:41 PM

And I’m sick and tired of this whole Miranda thing anyway. I don’t believe that any American doesn’t know they can shut up and ask for an attorney. The boy took civics in HS. The boy took citizenship classes in order to say the Pledge of Allegiance. I am expected to know I’m breaking the law even if I haven’t read the law. Schroom this puke and this dog and pony show of his Miranda warning.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM

The unfortunate fact is that Miranda was at least partially in response to overzealous cops beating confessions out of suspects, minorities especially, but we have simply gone too far the other way.

Now even the dumbest crook alive knows the cops have to read him his ‘rights’, dot every I and cross every T, or even a cheap lawyer can get the case thrown out on a technicality when everyone from the judge on down knows he’s guilty as all hell.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:42 PM

And isn’t it Miranda warning and not Miranda rights?

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Referred to as both..

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, ‘bud…

OmahaConservative on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

It’s easy to draw the news from Canada.

Axe on April 20, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Axe on April 20, 2013 at 7:33 PM

LoLz..Does have a resemblance I must admit..But I get what you mean..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Don’t toke and carry..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Great advice..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Let’s see.
He waged war against the country that gave him asylum, food, shelter, and an opportunity to be a success.
He bombed us.
He can have the right to remain silent when we put that needle in his vein and shove him off this mortal coil.

RovesChins on April 20, 2013 at 7:45 PM

CAIR Has A Message For You Ignorant Americans

CAIR just called you dumb.

Resist We Much on April 20, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Let’s see.
He waged war against the country that gave him asylum, food, shelter, and an opportunity to be a success.
He bombed us.
He can have the right to remain silent when we put that needle in his vein and shove him off this mortal coil.

RovesChins on April 20, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I agree, but unfortunately this country made him a citizen so he needs to be afforded due process rights. The lesson is we need to be more careful about who we make citizens.

We also need to figure out why our intelligence 12 years after 9/11 can’t make a case for a lone wolf or a bigger terrorist plot without interrogation of this kid. I think our intelligence should be able at this point to make the connections to international terrorists pretty quickly. If they can’t, we need to assess why and fix it. Because we apparently haven’t learned anything.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

I really detest agreeing with the ACLU on this one but not reading the rights will become routine with law enforcement if their feet are not held to the fire.

When it comes to Islamic terrorism resulting in horrific carnagem I have no problem with the law which has for years allowed for Miranda to be delayed.

I’m not really seeing the ‘public safety’ issue here. He was captured, his brother was dead and not reading the rights was not likely to reveal any information they could not have got if Miranda was followed.

He drops a dime on fellow Jihadis and you’ll see the public safety issue.

Besides, not READING the rights does not mean the suspect doesn’t HAVE the rights. Dzhokhar Tsarnaev could have invoked the right to remain silent, Miranda or no Miranda.
A criminal suspect HAS the rights whether Miranda is given or not.
Axion on April 20, 2013 at 7:36 PM

If he clams up then it doesn’t matter if he was Mirandized or if it was withheld. Withholding it would not be a factor. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

He’s shown a lot of cowardice so if he hopes to avoid the death penalty, he’ll sing like the proverbial canary.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

MJ Rosenberg Calls for Public Execution of Republicans and Matt Drudge

No Miranda warning or any rights, whatsoever, in MJ Rosenberg Court.

I have a feeling that MJ Rosenberg would have made it to the guillotine long before Robespierre.

Resist We Much on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Resist We Much on April 20, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Now that just makes me want to spit!

As always RWM…thanks for the info.

CoffeeLover on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

My wife (who is muslim by birth) reluctantly agreed with my proposition that if you become muslim (or become serious about it) later in life, your chances of boarding the crazy train (ie terrorism) are pretty high.

lorien1973 on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

There is a very very simple solution to all of this. Put this Miranda warning on the back of every DL and ID card. Have the person sign it. Over, done, never again an issue.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I’m not sure I get the issue here.

Miranda? Even the lowest info Obama voter has memorized Miranda. So what, if they read it to him? Are we concerned a subsequent confession would be excluded?

Or, are some trying to argue that the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, or the Sixth’s right to an attorney doesn’t apply? If the kid invokes either, are people arguing that interrogation (enhanced, or otherwise) can continue?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

The public safety exception allows a suspect to be interrogated immediately to assertain any further threats of time sensitive information they may have that LAW ENFORCEMENT or FBI, CIA, State, etc… can use. The ability to do this is traded for the information extracted being made mostly if not completely inadmissable in court.

Once they feel like they’ve gotten whatever there might be that they can use, THEN they “mirandize” him and turn him over to the lawyers.

Genuine on April 20, 2013 at 7:51 PM

I agree, but unfortunately this country made him a citizen so he needs to be afforded due process rights.
melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

He is already being afforded due process rights under the law.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:52 PM

If they can’t, we need to assess why and fix it. Because we apparently haven’t learned anything.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

We will try in 2016.
For now…
We must be vigilant.

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 7:53 PM

I’m not sure I get the issue here.

Miranda? Even the lowest info Obama voter has memorized Miranda. So what, if they read it to him? Are we concerned a subsequent confession would be excluded?

Or, are some trying to argue that the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, or the Sixth’s right to an attorney doesn’t apply? If the kid invokes either, are people arguing that interrogation (enhanced, or otherwise) can continue?

TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I think that is the issue with Miranda. They won’t be able to interrogate and I am not sure, but maybe they then lose their ability to classify him as an enemy combatant, but I don’t know enough about that area of law. So maybe they are waiting to mirandize him after they find out what he knows and how far the plot goes.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:53 PM

KAOS at Pot Rally!!

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:34 PM

I don’t know why, but this made me laugh! :)

MustLoveBlogs on April 20, 2013 at 7:38 PM

MustLoveBlogs:—:O

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:53 PM

The Council on American Islamic Relations again offered sympathy to victims of the Boston Marathon bombing on Friday, but added a plea for Americans not to generalize and conclude that Muslim teachings influenced the suspect in any way.

Resist We Much on April 20, 2013 at 7:46 PM

That’s what Obama said too.

Then in the next breath he demonized limited government conservatives.

Gotta love the guy.

petefrt on April 20, 2013 at 7:53 PM

He was a loser:

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev had done well academically in high school, but The New York Times reported that he was failing many of his courses at UMass Dartmouth. The Times said a school transcript showed seven failing grades over two semesters in 2012 and 2013, including Fs in Principles of Modern Chemistry, Intro American Politics, and Chemistry and the Environment. According to the transcript, Tsarnaev got a B in Critical Writing and a D and D-plus in two other courses.

http://goo.gl/zZySz

Blake on April 20, 2013 at 7:53 PM

Don’t toke and carry..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Great advice..:)

Dire Straits on April 20, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Dire Straits:Lol,don’t load,while stoned!:)

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 7:54 PM

I have no particular sympathy for Tsarnaev, who was given sanctuary in this country that allowed him to escape his war-torn homeland and have a much better life here only to, allegedly, terrorize the city he called home, murdering and maiming innocents. But there’s no theory of the case that I’m aware of that has the public in continued danger.

But apparently Dr. Joyner has no particular animosity that this guy blew up an eight-year-old either. Typical academic response. All theory and no reality. What does it take to get through to these people? Having a bomb go off next to a little Joyner?

As to the crux of this idiot’s defense of Tsarnaev’s Miranda rights- We still don’t have a motive behind the Boston Marathon bombing. We don’t know if the Tsarnaev brothers were “lone wolves” or part of a bigger operation. We don’t know if there are other bombs (we do know that at least one additional pressure cooker was found). There seems to have been an awful lot of explosives for the lone wolf scenerio.

You don’t get any of that if you start by having the only person known to be able to answer some of these questions getting the right to lawyer up.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 7:55 PM

$10 this coward would trade 1/2 of Islam for his Nintendo and a blunt.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:55 PM

There is a very very simple solution to all of this. Put this Miranda warning on the back of every DL and ID card. Have the person sign it. Over, done, never again an issue.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

Don’t even need that. Every person on Earth has heard the Miranda warning thousands of times on TV and movies. It’s the most famous English paragraph in history. Even people who can’t speak any English can recite the Miranda warning phonetically. The idea that anyone on Earth, let alone someone in America, let alone someone who allegedly passed a citizenship test, isn’t aware of their Constitutional rights to silence and a lawyerhas got to be one of the most rito all of this. Put this Miranda warning on the back of every DL and ID card. Have the person sign it. Over, done, never again an issue.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PMdiculous one could ever think up.

All this Miranda BS is crazy. People in countries where they have no rights at all demand their “Miranda rights” because they’ve heard it so many times in American movies and TV shows (just like demanding a phone call … even in countries that don’t have phones :) ).

The only people who are convinced that there exists a human being alive who isn’t aware of the Miranda warning are lawyers and judges. And the funniest part is that lawyers actually try to get their own statements dismissed by claiming that they weren’t “Mirandized” when they are arrested. A lawyer claiming that he didn’t know his Constitutional rights … okey doke. If that’s true, he should be jailed for practicing without a clue.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on April 20, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Let’s see.
He waged war against the country that gave him asylum, food, shelter, and an opportunity to be a success.
He bombed us.
He can have the right to remain silent when we put that needle in his vein and shove him off this mortal coil.

RovesChins on April 20, 2013 at 7:45 PM

I agree, but unfortunately this country made him a citizen so he needs to be afforded due process rights. The lesson is we need to be more careful about who we make citizens.

We also need to figure out why our intelligence 12 years after 9/11 can’t make a case for a lone wolf or a bigger terrorist plot without interrogation of this kid. I think our intelligence should be able at this point to make the connections to international terrorists pretty quickly. If they can’t, we need to assess why and fix it. Because we apparently haven’t learned anything.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:49 PM

Who was funding him? Who trained him? Who was pulling his more than eager strings? These two scumbags were pawns to the leader they served. How many other pawns are on that board? I don’t want a bombing a week.
We learned from 9/11 about the importance of timely intelligence. We have exceptions.

RovesChins on April 20, 2013 at 7:56 PM

He is already being afforded due process rights under the law.

whatcat on April 20, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Depends.. The government both of the state of Massachusetts and the federal government only have a limited amount of time to hold the suspect before they charge him. The only way the federal government can hold indefinitely is if they list as an enemy combatant. Do we know if he has been formerly charged?

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 7:56 PM

I’m on the fence on this one.

Say you have a guy that planted a nuke somewhere. Would you not worry about something like Miranda and just keep beating the hell out of the guy until he talked? Or, would you hold to the letter of the law, Mirandize him and once he said “I want a lawyer”, would you just stand there and stare at him?

The Constitution guarantees you protection from self incrimination. Whether or not you like it, this guy is an American citizen.

The Constitution is not a living document. It’s set in stone. Like it or not. But if you believe in it, you have to adhere to it…and just shoving it to the side because you may or may not save a life is a tough call.

Again, I see both sides. Don’t look to me for the answer. But I can’t help but feel a touch weaker as a citizen because of this decision. Greater minds then mine gave us these RIGHTS to protect us…not to be discarded for “the greater good”.

As the wife also pointed out…is it not jihadists hope to break down our system? To eliminate what defines us? What makes us different from them? Every time they do something against us, we react…chipping away at our own personal freedoms to insure “safety”. Death of a thousand cuts is still death.

Knave

Renee on April 20, 2013 at 7:58 PM

Or, are some trying to argue that the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, or the Sixth’s right to an attorney doesn’t apply? If the kid invokes either, are people arguing that interrogation (enhanced, or otherwise) can continue?
TitularHead on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

THIS is the prickly question. Constitutionally he has a right to not self-incriminate. HOWEVER, interrogations in an of themselves are attempts to subvert that right. It’s a tricky line.

Technically if a guy pleads the fifth in an interrogation logic would say it has to end right there, as it’s a right. But that’s not how interrogations work.

And there are right places and right times for interrogation. This IS one of them. But I’m afraid he won’t have the right to not self-incriminate easily granted to him. Just like every other subject. He has a right to remain silent. Cops have a right to try to coerce him to speak.

An unstoppable force meets an immovable object, if a suspect is strong. No telling how it might end up. Or he might go to singing right away.

Either way, still vastly more “due process” than enemy combatant status.

Genuine on April 20, 2013 at 7:58 PM

I seem to have gotten extra paste of Limerick’s quote in the middle of my rant …

No extra charge, as my grandfather used to say.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on April 20, 2013 at 7:59 PM

There is a very very simple solution to all of this. Put this Miranda warning on the back of every DL and ID card. Have the person sign it. Over, done, never again an issue.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I’d vote for that any day and twice on Sundays.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:59 PM

I keep hearing about theses shoot outs, but did these guys actually have guns? Did #2 fight back when the police came to get him in the boat?

I’m just curious. I think the police did everything right.

MayBee on April 20, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Well thank Allah that Tsarnaev is alive.
‘Cause his dad would be pissed and stuff would happen..
/

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Results for #PrayforBoston

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23PrayforBoston

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

It should end with having the guts to name what this American citizen did an act of terror. Then he becomes an enemy combatant. With all the rights and privileges therein. But your president is gutless. And as you have already alluded, your president bows to the far-right. I think that effectively makes him a coward. Don’t you?

ndanielson on April 20, 2013 at 7:38 PM

That is the difference between your crew and most Americans. Most Americans do not care about the semantics used by the president. We already know its an act of terror. We do not need the president to sing that tune to us.

The “invade every country possible” folks like yourself disagree with most Americans on that. You need the president and politicians to remind you every day that this is an act of terror. You also hate the American criminal justice system hence the reason why you prefer every American criminal/terrorist to go through some military tribunal.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on April 20, 2013 at 7:59 PM

e-mailing you my agents contact info.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

We as officers can ask questions immediately if the public is or may reasonably be in immediate substantial risk. This is one of the few exceptions that exist to Miranda.

In a case like this, I’d think any questions that were presented immediately by officers on scene, such as, “are there any more bombs anywhere? Are there explosives in the boat?” and things of that nature would not be an issue.

Questions about “who else did you work with? Why did you do this?” and things that aren’t of a pressing public safety nature would not be exempt from Miranda.

- Cop of 12 years and a supervisor.

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Results for #bostonstrong

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23bostonstrong&src=hash

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM

The Council on American Islamic Relations again offered sympathy to victims of the Boston Marathon bombing on Friday, but added a plea for Americans not to generalize and conclude that Muslim teachings influenced the suspect in any way.

Same old crap from a racist organization that funds terrorist organizations.

“Hey! We’re sorry about that killing in the name of our god. But don’t you dare say anything bad about Islam because that would be intolerant.”

CAIR’s claims of unquestioned tolerance would be so much more convincing if the the other folks that kill in the name of their god’s teachings were brought to justice. Especially those Methodists. /

Sorry but my tolerance for the so-called religion of peace is at an end. My tolerance for letting Muslim Americans claim that these are radical Islamists who bear no relation to their faith is at an end. If the Muslim-American community wants any credibility they need to stand up and condemn this violence not weak sauce apologies that are almost always followed with lectures on why the United States brought this violence on themselves by not letting the Arabs drive the Jews into the sea in Israel.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM

If you don’t think he needs his miranda read, then you are essentially okay with a drone blowing him up.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on April 20, 2013 at 8:02 PM

RedNewEnglander on April 20, 2013 at 8:01 PM

God bless! Son of two. Hard to get my Miranda from either of them when I was stupid.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 8:03 PM

That is the difference between your crew and most Americans. Most Americans do not care about the semantics used by the president. We already know its an act of terror. We do not need the president to sing that tune to us.

Most Americans don’t pay attention to the news past who won American Idol..

The “invade every country possible” folks like yourself disagree with most Americans on that. You need the president and politicians to remind you every day that this is an act of terror. You also hate the American criminal justice system hence the reason why you prefer every American criminal/terrorist to go through some military tribunal.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

The American Justice system is deeply flawed. Anyone who says differently hasn’t been paying attention when OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony were allowed to walk free.

melle1228 on April 20, 2013 at 8:04 PM

We already know its an act of terror. We do not need the president to sing that tune to us.

HotAirLib on April 20, 2013 at 8:00 PM

How about just once..
Just so we know where he stands..

Electrongod on April 20, 2013 at 8:04 PM

There is a very very simple solution to all of this. Put this Miranda warning on the back of every DL and ID card. Have the person sign it. Over, done, never again an issue.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

I’d vote for that any day and twice on Sundays.

MelonCollie on April 20, 2013 at 7:59 PM

Liberal Response: it would disenfranchise minorities and seniors because they don’t have the money to obtain DL or ID cards, remember that whole voter ID thingy? Besides, you are testing the liberal education system by making disenfranchised people read and that s racist.

MelonCollie thinks I’m a liberal troll. That logic above made my head melt.

RovesChins on April 20, 2013 at 8:04 PM

There is a very very simple solution to all of this. Put this Miranda warning on the back of every DL and ID card. Have the person sign it. Over, done, never again an issue.

Limerick on April 20, 2013 at 7:50 PM

In what language?

Seriously, some illegal with a DL will claim “no habla engles” and we suddenly have something the size of a passport to be able to drive a car.

Happy Nomad on April 20, 2013 at 8:06 PM

The Associated Press ‏@AP 3m

Police say Boston Marathon blasts suspects used carjacking victim’s ATM card before gunfight with authorities: http://apne.ws/ZaV2SE -RAS
======

Apr. 20 7:36 PM EDT

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/police-suspects-used-carjack-victims-atm-card

canopfor on April 20, 2013 at 8:06 PM

Miranda is not really to protect the arrestee. It’s to protect the government employees involved in the case from being tarred and feathered by the public for losing cases because they violated the person’s Constitutional rights. Every time the police read it to the arrestee, they are reading it to themselves, too.

Dusty on April 20, 2013 at 8:07 PM

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