Manchin: Yeah, we don’t have the votes on background checks

posted at 8:41 am on April 17, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Looks like Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) is throwing in the towel on his bipartisan deal on background checks.  Manchin told NBC News this morning that they can’t come up with the votes by this afternoon to close debate:

The bipartisan effort to expand background checks will not have the votes to advance in the Senate today, according to one of the architects of the deal.

“We will not get the votes today,” Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., told NBC News.

Last night, Roll Call reported that Manchin and Harry Reid needed eight more votes, almost an impossibility considering the circumstances:

Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. said Democrats were two votes short of a filibuster-proof majority on an amendment that would end the gun show exemption and expand background checks to online sales.

Democratic aides tracking the bill said their magic number was a bit higher and said that members of both parties are still being lobbied. These same sources declined to give an exact whip count or list of names, given the delicate nature of the talks. An unofficial count by CQ Roll Call suggests that negotiators have 52 supporters, with eight senators still in play. …

Late Tuesday afternoon, Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada, who was one of three Republicans left on the board, announced he would not support the deal.

“I cannot support legislation that infringes upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms,” he said of a compromise proposal authored by conservative Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin III, D-W.Va., and right-wing stalwart Sen. Patrick J. Toomey, R-Pa.

“I believe that this legislation could lead to the creation of a national gun registry and puts additional burdens on law-abiding citizens,” Heller said.

In other words, gun control simply isn’t very popular. After spending the last four months leading the charge to ban “assault” weapons and demand universal background checks, Barack Obama is discovering why Democrats had wisely avoided gun control for more than a decade:

In the run-up to the roll call expected Wednesday, so many Republicans had declared their opposition to the background check measure that supporters – mostly Democrats – seemed headed to defeat unless they could turn votes around in the final hours. Supporters seemed likely to lose some moderate Democratic senators as well.

“It’s a struggle,” New York Sen. Chuck Schumer, the No. 3 Senate Democrat, conceded Tuesday.

Perhaps helping explain Democrats’ problems, an AP-GfK poll this month showed that 49 percent of Americans support stricter gun laws. That was down from 58 percent who said so in January – a month after the December killings of 20 children and six aides at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school propelled gun violence into a national issue.

Just over half the public – 52 percent – expressed disapproval in the new survey of how President Barack Obama has handled gun laws. Weeks after the Newtown slayings, Obama made a call for near universal background checks the heart of his gun control plan.

This comes from the same poll that gives Obama a 49/43 approval rating on immigration, so it’s not merely the result of an outlier sample.  Furthermore, while Democrats have been obsessing over gun-control proposals that would have had no impact on the incidents exploited by them in the push, the rest of America has been left wondering about their priorities.  Gallup’s poll on Monday shows that only 4% think guns are America’s biggest problem, but 42% thing it’s the economy and jobs:

Few Americans mention guns or immigration as the most important problems facing the nation today, despite the current attention lawmakers in Washington are giving to these issues. The economy still dominates as the top concern, followed by jobs and dissatisfaction with the general way in which Congress and the government work. …

In terms of specific economic issues, Americans most frequently name the economy in general (24%), jobs/unemployment (18%), and the deficit (11%). The percentage mentioning each of these economic issues is in the same broad range as has been the case each month this year so far, although a higher 20% mentioned the deficit as the nation’s top problem in January.

At least nine million people got pushed out of the workforce over the last four-plus years of the Obama administration.  Exactly when will Democrats “pivot” toward that in a manner even approaching their obsession with gun control over the last four months?

Update: Salena Zito asked Pat Toomey if he’s ready to throw in the towel, too.  Not exactly:

Angry words from some conservative Republican constituents won’t keep U.S. Sen. Pat Toomey from working to secure votes needed to pass a gun-control amendment that would expand background checks on firearms purchases, he said Tuesday.

“This isn’t about politics; it’s about common sense,” Toomey told the Tribune-Review. “If I decide to run in 2016, then let the chips fall where they may.”

Again, in the realm of common sense, perhaps Toomey can explain how his bill would have prevented the Newtown shooting that Democrats have used to push universal background checks, among other initiatives.

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If they wanted to pass a federal law that said anyone convicted of murder with a gun is subject to capital punishment regardless of the state the crime was committed in, I’d be down with that, Holmes.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:44 AM

Can’t do it. That law would disproportionately impact the black community.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:45 AM

it’s just that you “christian” folk are the most bloodthirsty, war-mongering, gun-loving folks out there

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:42 AM

Actually, you liberals are…

Well, everything you accuse. The evidence it out there to prove it.

YOU have no genuine standing here, despite your arrogant ego.

Liam on April 17, 2013 at 9:46 AM

spoken like a true christian. the “party of life”

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:45 AM

I’ve never understood the vehemence with which liberals defend the life of a multiple rapist/murderer while simultaneously defending with equal vehemence the slaughter of innocent children.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:44 AM

why do you anti-govt people trust the govt to get it right every time on capital punishment? innocent people do get executed (ask rick perry) and there’s no do-overs. seems pretty unconstitutional to me….

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Shannon Bream ‏@ShannonBream 4m

SenCornyn intros amendment to allow concealed carry across state lines – would treat concealed carry permits “like drivers’ licenses”

petefrt on April 17, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Really, no atheists own guns? Are you that much of a bigot you have to blame Christians for everything?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:37 AM
it’s just that you “christian” folk are the most bloodthirsty, war-mongering, gun-loving folks out there

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:42 AM

Intolerant and a profiler to boot, professor?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Can’t do it. That law would disproportionately impact the black community.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Eh, extenuating circumstances would come into play; 1,500 years of blacks being oppressed in America for one. A brother robs a liquor store and murders everyone in the place, that’s whitey’s fault.

Bishop on April 17, 2013 at 9:48 AM

seems pretty unconstitutional to me….

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

How, exactly?

JohnTant on April 17, 2013 at 9:49 AM

A brother robs a liquor store and murders everyone in the place, that’s whitey’s fault.

Bishop on April 17, 2013 at 9:48 AM

Thanks for the reminder. I left my AP style guide at home this morning. More’s the pity.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:49 AM

DBear must be a journalist.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:42 AM

He’s just a commonplace liberal, looking to be relevant somewhere.

Liam on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

Out of curiosity since you mentioned it, it bothers you I take it those priest did that?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:41 AM
*sigh*

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:44 AM

That’s not an answer, professor. Does it bother you a few priests had sex with teenagers?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

He’s just a commonplace liberal, looking to be relevant somewhere.

Liam on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

Poor kid.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

He’s just a commonplace liberal, looking to be relevant somewhere.

Liam on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

Poor kid.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

Fvck him.

Liberals are pedestrian, boring, commonplace, and banal.

There is nothing a liberal can say today that I didn’t hear 40 years go.

Liam on April 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM

And when the next Kermit Gosnell happens?

NotCoach on April 17, 2013 at 9:35 AM

who?

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:39 AM

And I bet Dbagbear here considers himself well informed.

NotCoach on April 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM

And I bet Dbagbear here considers himself well informed.

NotCoach on April 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM

He IS well informed – but only by Maddow and Brian Williams. He knows everything they say, and nothing else.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 9:56 AM

why do you anti-govt people trust the govt to get it right every time on capital punishment? innocent people do get executed (ask rick perry) and there’s no do-overs. seems pretty unconstitutional to me….

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Nobody here is an anarchist as far as I know.

Everyone who is sentenced to death has multiple chances to appeal. Nothing unconstitutional about it. If you don’t like the death penalty, vote with your feet and move to another state.

We want a smaller, less intrusive govt because we DO NOT trust it.

ROCnPhilly on April 17, 2013 at 9:56 AM

innocent people do get executed(ask rick perry Kermit Gosnell) and there’s no do-overs.

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Yep

antipc on April 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Anti-government? Now you’re not only wrong, but you’re a liar. We’re pro-small government.

As to the death penalty, I oppose it. I oppose euthanasia and abortion as well.

The thing is, our legal system has – due to the will of the people – created a process through which one can be legally deprived of life.

Show me the legal process (including appeals)a woman has to go through to kill her child and I’ll let you compare executing the guilty with slaughtering the innocent.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 10:00 AM

I almost asked the professor, knowing he still had a few sock left over, did he think he needed to start using one of them since he burned out the libfree one with the pathetic age of consent pitch. I guess I should feel bad for him because he got caught up in the moment of progress with gay marriage and just got carried away with his comments. A lot like saying something really stupid at a party the instance everyone gets quiet.

Expect more DBear.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:03 AM

innocent people do get executed(ask rick perry Kermit Gosnell) and there’s no do-overs.

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Yep

antipc on April 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM

+1

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Show me the legal process (including appeals)a woman has to go through to kill her child and I’ll let you compare executing the guilty with slaughtering the innocent.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 10:00 AM

Well said!

Naturally Curly on April 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Vote against this at your own peril
– morning joe and crew

cmsinaz on April 17, 2013 at 8:55 AM

Just reading that makes me want to drop ice cubes down the shirt of peril.

CurtZHP on April 17, 2013 at 10:05 AM

And when the next Kermit Gosnell happens?

NotCoach on April 17, 2013 at 9:35 AM

who?

DBag on April 17, 2013 at 9:39 AM

And I bet Dbagbear here considers himself well informed.

NotCoach on April 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM

That’s called a dodge. And a lousy one at that.

CurtZHP on April 17, 2013 at 10:06 AM

The Morning Joe crew was sitting Shiva for gun control this morning. Made my day!

Naturally Curly on April 17, 2013 at 10:07 AM

why do you anti-govt people trust the govt to get it right every time on capital punishment? innocent people do get executed (ask rick perry) and there’s no do-overs. seems pretty unconstitutional to me….

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

And killers go free, what the hell’s your point?

Innocent people get killed in gun-free zones by criminals. Innocent people get killed at the finish line of the Boston Marathon. Innocent people get killed by drunk drivers.

Before the state puts somebody to death there is a lengthy appeals process. And while not a perfect system I would rather have the death penalty as an option to deal with the Timothy McVeighs of the world than I would allow mass killers spend years on the public dole living in a concrete box.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM

I hope it was worth it Toomey. Either you are one really naive politician, or you’re too dumb for words. Either way, you are no conservative – not anymore!

cww on April 17, 2013 at 9:10 AM

Manchin must have whispered some AMAZINGLY amazing sweet nothings into Toomey’s ear to get him to buy into this political-suicide mission. “The first one’s always free” or something like that…

bofh on April 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM

The Morning Joe crew was sitting Shiva for gun control this morning. Made my day!

Naturally Curly on April 17, 2013 at 10:07 AM

Too funny! Especially after weeks of the administration pounding gun-grabbing as the most important issue of our time. After all those worthless Newtown props were used in photo-ops on the Hill.

Lets put this in perspective. Chicago had four people killed and 21 injured by shootings this past weekend. It is a gun-free city and yet there is nothing in the legislation being pushed by the rat-eared coward and his party that would change this situation. There are underlying societal problems that could be addressed but it isn’t politically correct to dwell on that.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Manchin must have whispered some AMAZINGLY amazing sweet nothings into Toomey’s ear to get him to buy into this political-suicide mission. “The first one’s always free” or something like that…

bofh on April 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Let’s not forget Schumer or Kirk. They should get credit for their role in this too!

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Looking back I think the point when they realized they didn’t have the votes for this bill was right around when they rolled out that video of the American Al Qaeda idiot talking about buying fully-automatic rifles at gun shows. Then you tune into the media who are pushing for this bill as hard as they can and they pivot away from “this is about Newtown” to “this is about stopping terrorists.”

I don’t see this bill passing…..there is still too much ambiguity when it comes to the mental health issue and the unintended consequences of that provision (people not seeking help for depression and whatnot in order to avoid getting on the ‘no’ list).

SleightOfHand on April 17, 2013 at 10:21 AM

That’s not an answer, professor. Does it bother you a few priests had sex with teenagers?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM

yawn

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM

seems pretty unconstitutional to me….

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:47 AM

DBear just told you everything you need to know about “liberals” right there: “Due Process of Law” means nothing to them.

To be fair, considering where they were “educated”, they may never even have heard of the concept. They certainly don’t give a rat’s @ss about it. Getting the result they want is all that matters, by any means necessary. Due process? Feh.

That explains their means of “legislating” — draw up monstrously large bills in total secrecy, then ram them through without debate or even the opportunity to read them, twisting legal procedure past the breaking point if need be. That explains their sheltering under the Rule of the Black Robe Clan on policy issues rather than the will of the people as expressed through the legislature. That explains why use of executive orders by Bush was “fascist” while use of them by Obama is fine. That explains their utter silence at Obama’s use of intel and warfare methods that had them screaming for Bush’s impeachment. That explains their devotion to “speech codes” to silence opposing opinions. That explains why they are perfectly willing to allow a 14-year old child to determine whether her baby lives or dies — whatever its state of development, or even geographical location — but defer to an unelected board of bureaucrats to determine whether Grandma lives or dies. That explains why they think you should have total freedom to determine what hallucinogens you put in your system, but won’t allow you to have a 16 oz. Coke.

If there is a dime’s worth of difference between Democrats’ governance and that of Mussolini, I have yet to see it cogently explained.

Zumkopf on April 17, 2013 at 10:25 AM

And while not a perfect system I would rather have the death penalty as an option to deal with the Timothy McVeighs of the world than I would allow mass killers spend years on the public dole living in a concrete box.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2013 at 10:08 AM

So you are all fine w/ the govt murdering the occasional innocent person to fulfill your “eye for an eye” death penalty bloodlust just as you are all fine w/ the occasional Aurora, Newtown, Tucson so you can all still play with your big guns. Americans dying violent horrible senseless deaths for your continued bloodlust/amusement.

American Exceptionalism!

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

That’s not an answer, professor. Does it bother you a few priests had sex with teenagers?

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 9:50 AM
yawn

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM

Let me answer for you. You can’t say anything because of comments you’ve made. For years as your various socks you’ve railed against a few priests who have molested under-aged boys. It is your weapon against the Catholic Church. Now you’re on record as saying it’s exactly the sort of thing you actually condone. So we get one of your classic *sighs* or yawn. Both dodges. You can’t answer.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM

So you are all fine w/ the govt murdering the occasional innocent person to fulfill your “eye for an eye” death penalty bloodlust just as you are all fine w/ the occasional Aurora, Newtown, Tucson so you can all still play with your big guns. Americans dying violent horrible senseless deaths for your continued bloodlust/amusement.

American Exceptionalism!

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

yawn

HumpBot Salvation on April 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

Vapid troll is vapid.

JohnTant on April 17, 2013 at 10:34 AM

Here’s the thing: They knew they didn’t have the votes when the started this thing…. Down in flames!!!!!

supersport667 on April 17, 2013 at 10:34 AM

Sorry I’m not optimistic. If Schumer was right and they only need 2 votes its very easy for Obama and Bloomberg to throw billions of cash around to buy those votes.

Reid wouldn’t bring it up if he didn’t have the votes.

Just like Obamacare…

I have 0 faith in this government wanting to do anything to protect and preserve my liberties.

Skywise on April 17, 2013 at 10:35 AM

Let me answer for you. You can’t say anything because of comments you’ve made. For years as your various socks you’ve railed against a few priests who have molested under-aged boys. It is your weapon against the Catholic Church. Now you’re on record as saying it’s exactly the sort of thing you actually condone. So we get one of your classic *sighs* or yawn. Both dodges. You can’t answer.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM

yes genius i am against authority figures taking advantage of underage kids and stealing their innocence DUHHHHHH

i’ve had enough dealings w/ bad people this morning y’all have a good day. Be sure to mock the Newtown families by posting about “pressure cooker control” haha you are all so witty and original! (apparently you idiots don’t realize bombs are illegal but whatever)

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:36 AM

So you are all fine w/ the govt murdering the occasional innocent person to fulfill your “eye for an eye” death penalty bloodlust just as you are all fine w/ the occasional Aurora, Newtown, Tucson so you can all still play with your big guns. Americans dying violent horrible senseless deaths for your continued bloodlust/amusement.

American Exceptionalism!

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

If you support abortion on demand, you’ve no right to preach any type of morality. You lose right out of the gate.

Jabberwock on April 17, 2013 at 10:37 AM

yes genius i am against authority figures taking advantage of underage kids and stealing their innocence DUHHHHHH

i’ve had enough dealings w/ bad people this morning y’all have a good day. Be sure to mock the Newtown families by posting about “pressure cooker control” haha you are all so witty and original! (apparently you idiots don’t realize bombs are illegal but whatever)

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Professor, I know you bailed. And I know you still follow the thread after you do. You should know your socks are pretty easy to pick out.

Just saying.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:38 AM

****************** ANOTHER DEFECTION ********************!!

US Senate considers gun control laws

New Hampshire Republican Senator Kelly Ayotte will announce that she is a no vote on background checks – @NBCNews

2 mins ago by editor

canopfor on April 17, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Manchin must have whispered some AMAZINGLY amazing sweet nothings into Toomey’s ear to get him to buy into this political-suicide mission. “The first one’s always free” or something like that…

bofh on April 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM

I thought the same. Manchin wants to save his own seat by destroying Toomey and Toomey is OK with that?

Hmmmmm…. I guess it’s true. Toomey really was the inspiration for the “Randy” character on “Monk”.

ROCnPhilly on April 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Perhaps helping explain Democrats’ problems, an AP-GfK poll this month showed that 49 percent of Americans support stricter gun laws. That was down from 58 percent who said so in January

wait an ABC/wsj poll said 99.9% wanted more gun control and all weapons banne dor something. Polls are useless.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM

,” Toomey told the Tribune-Review. “If I decide to run in 2016

Money quote. He’s got nothing to lose.

OldEnglish on April 17, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Professor, I know you bailed. And I know you still follow the thread after you do. You should know your socks are pretty easy to pick out.

Just saying.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Can’t HA’s sign-in system detect multiple handles coming from the same IP address? That should be a no-brainer. I doubt if they are smart enough to figure out proxies.

slickwillie2001 on April 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM

I can not and will not support politicians who support any more limits on our Second Amendment rights.
-Gov Palin

I join Sarah Palin – I won’t support any member of Congress who votes for more gun control laws… fb.me/tw0fVwmv

— Mark R. Levin (@marklevinshow) April 15, 2013

casting a vote for Gun control with a good possibility it will never pass the house at this stage seems like a very big no won vote. if you cast a yes vote you will be primaried and/or lose you conservative support for a bill that most likely won’t get through the House. How would it make any sense for any GOPer to vote for this bill no matter what his/her thoughts are on gun control itself. It is potentially a career ending vote with nothing to gain from a yes vote.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:44 AM

We don’t need any more gun control laws – especially as long as the government can’t properly enforce the laws we have.
Good example here of the kind of cops that do not need any more power to abuse:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/345714/free-cj-grisham

I know Rick Perry is out marketing for gun companies to move to Texas, but cops like these are going to ruin his efforts.
How pro-gun can Texas really be if cops like these can keep their jobs and get away with crap like this?

HA – Where’s the thread on this story? There really should be one.

dentarthurdent on April 17, 2013 at 10:45 AM

American Exceptionalism!

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

you have no idea what that means do you. If you did you would be a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment so that the experiement started by the founders of men governing themselves in a free society can continue.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM

dude, argentina is a third world country by any definition of the term, and with that i consider this inane debate to be over.

sesquipedalian on April 17, 2013 at 10:35 AM

dude, Chad is a third world country by any definition of the term; Argentina is a socialist hellhole/Democrat’s paradise.

M240H on April 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM

I’d like to submit for your approval a new word for Hot Air.

Trock: The combination of the words, troll and sock. Sock, being an abbreviation of “sockpuppet”.

A trock would be any commenter who not only has many on-line characters they comments with to enhance their main screne personallyity, but usies all of them in a trollish manner.

Trock. see DeathToMediaHacks and subsequent.

You could additionally use it in many double entendre puns.

For instance: Arnold Ziffel asserts, “Did you know hawkdriver as a sockpuppet for Bishop?”

You could answer, “No trocking way!”

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Have you ever driven into Chicago from outside the city? How many times was your vehicle stopped to see if you had firearms inside? Exactly.

libfreeordie on April 17, 2013 at 9:21 AM

Are you proposing that vehicles be stopped regularly to check for firearms?

The point is that the regulations don’t work because all they do is keep law-abiding citizens from owning firearms. The criminals have no problem obtaining them.

Missy on April 17, 2013 at 10:48 AM

Excellent commentary:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/345762/don%E2%80%99t-let-logic-ruin-good-law

Legislate in haste (because of manipulative emotionalism); repent in leisure.

The same advice can be given re comprehensive immigration bills cobbled behind closed doors by a select “gang,” those which rely on only the imput of select interest groups, and those which do not allow vigorous examination and lengthy debate.

onlineanalyst on April 17, 2013 at 10:49 AM

know Rick Perry is out marketing for gun companies to move to Texas, but cops like these are going to ruin his efforts.
How pro-gun can Texas really be if cops like these can keep their jobs and get away with crap like this?

HA – Where’s the thread on this story? There really should be one.

dentarthurdent on April 17, 2013 at 10:45 AM

when I was a kid I has no problem carrying my shotgun form my house to the woods to hunt. through neighborhoods. Noone “called the cops” no one was scared. Many of us teenagers regularly walked with guns. how far we have come as a country of sheep.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM

How would it make any sense for any GOPer to vote for this bill no matter what his/her thoughts are on gun control itself. It is potentially a career ending vote with nothing to gain from a yes vote.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Sadly, for someone like Mark Kirk or Susan Collins it’s not a career ending vote, and maybe not for McCain either.

Missy on April 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM

The same advice can be given re comprehensive immigration bills cobbled behind closed doors by a select “gang,” those which rely on only the imput of select interest groups, and those which do not allow vigorous examination and lengthy debate.

onlineanalyst on April 17, 2013 at 10:49 AM

what ever happened to the idea that bills should start in committees and go through several of them before reaching the floor of the Senate or House to be voted on by the members? Giving the ppublic and other congree people time to debate the law?

Our republic isn’t a republic anymore it seems.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:51 AM

lol

“main screen personality …”

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:53 AM

Sadly, for someone like Mark Kirk or Susan Collins it’s not a career ending vote, and maybe not for McCain either.

Missy on April 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM

I wouldn’t be too sure about that. these types of votes open them up to primary fights and as CT and COD showed a Castle even in a blue state can be taken out in a primary.

McCain if conservatives can find a good solid candidate to run agains t him is done and no JD was not a good solid conservative.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:38 AM
Can’t HA’s sign-in system detect multiple handles coming from the same IP address? That should be a no-brainer. I doubt if they are smart enough to figure out proxies.

slickwillie2001 on April 17, 2013 at 10:41 AM

I’m not sure that’s their job or if they should really care from their standpoint.

I personally would have banned libfree when the marriage debate got to the point where he felt comfortable using this forum as a platform to pitch lowering the age of consent. rogerb is the guy who deserves credit for keeping that comment of his alive. Once you start looking for that comment though, it actually nets a goldmine of comments libfree or one of his other socks has made pushing the same agenda.

If he doesn’t get banned for that, a sockpuppet shouldn’t either.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:26 AM

What due process is required for a woman to kill her baby?

To execute a murderer, 12 of that murderer’s peers must convict, a judge must sentence and an appeals system must re-examine.

Please identify what, other than the whim of a single individual, is used to justify the execution of a baby.

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM

when I was a kid I has no problem carrying my shotgun form my house to the woods to hunt. through neighborhoods. Noone “called the cops” no one was scared. Many of us teenagers regularly walked with guns. how far we have come as a country of sheep.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Same here. Having my shotgun in my car for bird hunting after school, and comparing guns with other friends wouldn’t even garner a passing look.
How we got here? Incrementalism….you know…the doctrine of Socialism.

Mimzey on April 17, 2013 at 11:01 AM

I wouldn’t be too sure about that. these types of votes open them up to primary fights and as CT and COD showed a Castle even in a blue state can be taken out in a primary.

You may be right. I like to think Collins would have been successfully primaried by now if it were possible to take her down.

Kirk isn’t up until 2016 IIRC so he is probably banking on his vote not being remembered enough to count, esp. if he pulls the “vote for cloture but not the actual bill” move that is so common among RINOs.

Also, never underestimate the incompetence/corruption of the IL GOP. A credible conservative challenger isn’t always that easy to come by. DE could be more of an example than we’d like it to be.

Missy on April 17, 2013 at 11:02 AM

when I was a kid I has no problem carrying my shotgun form my house to the woods to hunt. through neighborhoods. Noone “called the cops” no one was scared. Many of us teenagers regularly walked with guns. how far we have come as a country of sheep.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Ya – I used to do the same in Maine.
So many people keep talking about how gun friendly Texas is – but this story seriously contradicts that line. The story I referenced seems to indicate there is a pattern of cops abusing the rights of soldiers carrying guns in that area. That needs to be stopped and certain people fired immediately.
Perry needs to get back home and get his house in order or the gun companies being chased out of CO, NY, CT, and MD will go elsewhere.

dentarthurdent on April 17, 2013 at 11:05 AM

How we got here? Incrementalism….you know…the doctrine of Socialism.

Mimzey on April 17, 2013 at 11:01 AM

yeah that’s part of it. However watching Thatcher put to rest makes me think it also has to do with our leaders. Not one since Reagan/Thatcher have given us courage. Instead they push fear into us to get this or that bill passed. the media pushes fear also. Fear of the unknown has made people no longer trust each other.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM

Washington Nearsider on April 17, 2013 at 10:00 AM
Well said!

Naturally Curly on April 17, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Didn’t see that. It is well said.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 11:09 AM

Grassley-Cruz gun bill allows interstate transport of firearms

Sens. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) will unveil an alternative gun control bill on Wednesday that includes provisions making it easier to purchase and transport firearms across state lines.

More like this! Go on offense and stay there.

petefrt on April 17, 2013 at 11:10 AM

Also, never underestimate the incompetence/corruption of the IL GOP. A credible conservative challenger isn’t always that easy to come by. DE could be more of an example than we’d like it to be.

Missy on April 17, 2013 at 11:02 AM

yeah IL is lost to conservatives. It needs to get a lot worse there beofre the elite machine there is thrown out.

Collins I’m not sure. Depends. Maine is a very gun friendly state.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 11:10 AM

Count me as one of Toomey’s “constituents” with a few angry words for him. I wrote him expressing my displeasure with his complete sell out of the 2nd amendment and conservative principles. His public rebuke of people like myself just makes me even more disgusted.

The irony is, there is zero common sense in his bill and plenty of politics.

Anyway, I hope he enjoys his last years as a Senator because he will never win reelection. He just alienated the people whose votes won him the office in a razor thin election in a Republican wave year.

The Democrats who he think are his buddies will trash him as soon as his next campaign starts….he has become everything he fought to replace in Arlen Spector.

With his career has a GOP Senator from PA is as good as over, the question is….is he in love with the power enough to pull a “Spector” and change parties to survive? After what he has done, i feel, no pathetic political expedience is impossible.

Another lying RINO sells us out. Unbelievable.

alecj on April 17, 2013 at 11:12 AM

However watching Thatcher put to rest makes me think it also has to do with our leaders. Not one since Reagan/Thatcher have given us courage. Instead they push fear into us to get this or that bill passed. the media pushes fear also. Fear of the unknown has made people no longer trust each other.

unseen on April 17, 2013 at 11:08 AM

Thats the operative mechanism of incrementalism. The fear is what allows the increments to move forward.

Mimzey on April 17, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Thats the operative mechanism of incrementalism. The fear is what allows the increments excrements to move forward.

Mimzey on April 17, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Fixed it. We are speaking of statists, no?

ROCnPhilly on April 17, 2013 at 11:31 AM

That Joe Manchin is a heckuva politician, huh?

bill glass on April 17, 2013 at 11:33 AM

What an abject clown Harry Reid is.
http://www.businessinsider.com/harry-reid-assault-weapons-ban-gun-control-senate-2013-4

onlineanalyst on April 17, 2013 at 11:40 AM

good! let it die! it’s a watered-down POS that wouldn’t do a lick of good anyways. now when the next inevitable mass shooting tragedy happens we can rightly hang it on the necks of you 2nd amendment bloodthirsty “christian” savages….

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:29 AM

We’re not the ones stripping people of the ability to defend themselves against criminals. Those kids were murdered because they were made easy targets by people like you.

If you want to prevent this in the future… allow teachers/admins employed by a school, able to voluntarily carry if they have a CC license, even in a “No gun zone” school area.

dominigan on April 17, 2013 at 11:42 AM

It’s amazing what liberal trolls will defend.

Well, not really amazing.

Such angry little boys.

CurtZHP on April 17, 2013 at 11:47 AM

Vote against this at your own peril
- morning joe and crew

cmsinaz on April 17, 2013 at 8:55 AM

Didn’t partying with Morning Joe on his boat already imperil them?

When a school or any other entity advertises itself as a gun-free zone, be assured that a Beslan-style massacre is not far in the future.

onlineanalyst on April 17, 2013 at 11:48 AM

spoken like a true christian. the “party of life”

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 9:45 AM

Nooooo… I’ll say this S-L-O-W-L-Y for the D(imwitted)Bear…

Christians know the difference between good and evil. Good is to be encouraged, and evil punished. Murdering others is evil and murderers should be punished, not rewarded. Murderers deserve to be put to death, not only to remove them from society, but also to serve as a warning to others considering murder as a crime.

It’s called justice… something you don’t seem to appreciate.

dominigan on April 17, 2013 at 11:49 AM

Professor, I know you bailed. And I know you still follow the thread after you do. You should know your socks are pretty easy to pick out.

Just saying.

hawkdriver on April 17, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Wait… D(imwit)Bear is a professor? I just thought he was just an uninformed liberal dimwit.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions!

dominigan on April 17, 2013 at 11:52 AM

right-wing stalwart Sen. Patrick J. Toomey, R-Pa.

Not no more. Good bye.

AH_C on April 17, 2013 at 11:54 AM

How pro-gun can Texas really be if cops like these can keep their jobs and get away with crap like this?

HA – Where’s the thread on this story? There really should be one.

dentarthurdent on April 17, 2013 at 10:45 AM

The problem is the open carry law is poorly written. You cannot open carry a pistol (with a few exceptions) but you can open carry a long gun. and here is the kicker – if is not in a threatening manner. This leaves it up to the officer to make that decision and we have bad cops here just like we have good cops here. The cop in this story should be fired immediately if the investigation turn out to be true as this apparently in not an isolated case in that area. He should not be allowed to work in law enforcement in Texas again.

Corsair on April 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM

If Chuckie Schumer’s name is attached to a bill you know that it is bad for America.

Dasher on April 17, 2013 at 12:01 PM

AZ demonstrates sanity, in spite of the craven idiots, Gifford’s idiot husband in specific.

Schadenfreude on April 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM

The cop in this story should be fired immediately if the investigation turn out to be true as this apparently in not an isolated case in that area. He should not be allowed to work in law enforcement in Texas again.

Corsair on April 17, 2013 at 11:56 AM

That’s what I’m gettin to. If something isn’t done about this/these cop(s), the whole situation contradicts the Texas gun friendly theme.
Especially since these cops appear to be specifically targeting soldiers from Ft Hood – that makes it even worse IMHO.

dentarthurdent on April 17, 2013 at 12:05 PM

i’ve had enough dealings w/ bad people this morning y’all have a good day. Be sure to mock the Newtown families by posting about “pressure cooker control” haha you are all so witty and original! (apparently you idiots don’t realize bombs are illegal but whatever)

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Apparently you and your co-idiots don’t realize committing crimes with guns are illegal but whatever. Exact same argument from us, why control guns?

Cognitive dissonance is strong with you, eh?

AH_C on April 17, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Aw, we’ve gone and made the angry little boy really angry, and now he’s gone away angry. Tsk.

CurtZHP on April 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM

i’ve had enough dealings w/ bad people this morning y’all have a good day. Be sure to mock the Newtown families by posting about “pressure cooker control” haha you are all so witty and original! (apparently you idiots don’t realize bombs are illegal but whatever)

DBear on April 17, 2013 at 10:36 AM

You people cannot suffer enough.

tom daschle concerned on April 17, 2013 at 12:22 PM

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