Time for a first strike on North Korea?

posted at 6:31 pm on April 14, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Just this afternoon, Ed was asking whether or not North Korea was dialing down the rhetoric and, just perhaps, signaling a return to the lousy normal situation we face regarding the ongoing Dancing With the Kims reality show on the Korean peninsula. But that answer is far from clear and some other voices are expressing an urge to advance the pieces on the chess board a bit faster. One of them is Jeremi Suri, who went to the pages of the Gray Lady to suggest that it’s time to put this charade to rest and just bomb them.

The Korean crisis has now become a strategic threat to America’s core national interests. The best option is to destroy the North Korean missile on the ground before it is launched. The United States should use a precise airstrike to render the missile and its mobile launcher inoperable.

President Obama should state clearly and forthrightly that this is an act of self-defense in response to explicit threats from North Korea and clear evidence of a prepared weapon. He should give the leaders of South Korea, Japan, China and Taiwan advance notice before acting. And he should explain that this is a limited defensive strike on a military target — an operation that poses no threat to civilians — and that America does not intend to bring about regime change. The purpose is to neutralize a clear and present danger. That is all.

It’s an interesting perspective and, I must admit, one which lies in a direction which I’ve found myself considering lately as well. But in my own dark, depressing thoughts, simply taking out a few strategic missile installations wouldn’t do the trick. The ruling family has been a pain in the lower anatomical sections for as long as I can remember, and I admit to wondering if it wasn’t time to just send some smart bombs in to the location of his next photo op and be done with him before he can spawn another generation of daft tyrants. But as I said, that’s really just depression talking, and not something I see as viable at this moment.

Not everyone agrees with Suri, of course. Over at OTB, Steven Taylor seems to think this is a rerun of a bad movie he’s seen before.

The logic here reminds me of pre-Iraq War logic: a bellicose dictator, who is often painted as unstable and unpredictable, appears to be developing weapons that, if deployed, could seriously damage regional stability and vital US national interests. Since an attack said dictator could have devastating results, best to act before such attacks take place. Indeed, a demonstration of power and resolve will help maintain, if not enhance, US security interests. Further: everything will go as planned once the action is undertaken.

A major flaw in Suri’s logic, I would argue: he is starting from the premise that Kim Jung Un’s threats are credible, i.e., that he would attack the South or US interests if allowed to continue. Yet, if the US were to militarily strike the North, then Kim would respond by backing down. Indeed, Suri’s argument is predicated on wishful (if not magical) thinking about how military power works. Just because the North is attacked does not mean that their automatic response will be better behavior. Indeed, provoking an adversary is a good way to get that adversary to overreact.

Comparisons between Kim Jong Un and other dictators are not futile, and he makes some fair points, but I disagree with the underlying reasoning. I’m not worried about an attack on North Korea making their leader more crazy and doing something nuts. He’s already crazy enough. But both the international politics and the military reality make me think that a first strike is still more of a negative than a positive.

From the military side of things, we’re watching all of NoKo’s assets like a hawk and we should be able to neutralize any first strike attempts they make. With sufficient provocation being displayed for all to see, nobody we care about (read: China and Russia) will care much if we go in after that and flatten a fair bit of the country and take out Kim. But if we strike first, that’s precisely the type of excuse the next leadership of North Korea, not to mention China, can use to muddy the waters and further make us out to be the bad guy.

But far more to the point, even if we have to live with Kim’s bellicose grandstanding for a few years more, “beating” North Korea seems like a losing proposition. From all the reports we’ve seen, the people of North Korea, starving though they may be and with relatives dying in concentration camps, really and truly hate us. They have been indoctrinated since birth to believe that the United States is the Great Evil waiting to destroy them and their beloved leader. We will not be welcomed as freedom fighting heroes by the citizens of North Korea. We’ll just be fulfilling the evil prophecy of doom they’ve been lectured about their whole lives.

So what does that leave us with? Another wrecked country that we have to ride shotgun over while they pick off our troops? We don’t need an occupation there or any sort of nation re-building efforts. This is a no win game as I see it, and there’s no profitable path forward unless they make the first move. The best plan I see is to stay on them like a blanket, ready to respond, and then hit them like the Hammer of God if Kim is stupid enough to attempt a strike.


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Comment pages: 1 2

…yeah…why not?

KOOLAID2 on April 14, 2013 at 6:33 PM

…logic?…you used logic and North Korea in the same paragraph?

KOOLAID2 on April 14, 2013 at 6:35 PM

…..no thanks.

what could go wrong?

stuckinwisconsin on April 14, 2013 at 6:36 PM

So what does that leave us with? Another wrecked country that we have to ride shotgun over while they pick off our troops? We don’t need an occupation there or any sort of nation re-building efforts. This is a no win game as I see it, and there’s no profitable path forward unless they make the first move. The best plan I see is to stay on them like a blanket, ready to respond, and then hit them like the Hammer of God if Kim is stupid enough to attempt a strike.

Spot on. And even if the people welcome us in because we’re bearing food, we don’t have the trillions to spend fixing that country.

rbj on April 14, 2013 at 6:37 PM

That poor horse…. The tales it could tell!

Blake on April 14, 2013 at 6:40 PM

Whats the matter?

Is Hot Gas concerned that the newest little Kim isn’t getting enough attention?

cozmo on April 14, 2013 at 6:40 PM

One of them is Jeremi Suri, who went to the pages of the Gray Lady to suggest that it’s time to put this charade to rest and just bomb them.

The Norks must act first in order to keep China out of it and to legitimize Japan as an active partner in any conflict.

NotCoach on April 14, 2013 at 6:41 PM

How stupid the US people are for having voted for these weaseals and eunuchs. Kerry’s stupid face is perfect for today’s USA.

President Reagan weeps in his grave for his once great land.

Schadenfreude on April 14, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Instead of “cookie cutter” bombs I recommend the “cookie cluster” bomb, packed with Oreos and Fig Newtons. They’ll all be too busy trying to milk any available mammal for a glassful to launch any missiles.

M240H on April 14, 2013 at 6:41 PM

That poor horse…. The tales it could tell!

Blake on April 14, 2013 at 6:40 PM

That horse probably gets treated better than 99.9% of North Koreans.

NotCoach on April 14, 2013 at 6:42 PM

The best plan I see is to stay on them like a blanket, ready to respond, and then hit them like the Hammer of God if Kim is stupid enough to attempt a strike.

Instead Obama/Kerry bipassed licking N. Korea and China’s azzes. They are now deep inside, and losing.

Schadenfreude on April 14, 2013 at 6:43 PM

As much as I would love to see the NoKo regime taken out, it is not worth it. It is cheaper to buy them off (as bad as that is for the people of NoKo). But the cost should be borne by South Korea, not us.

Mr. Joe on April 14, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Ever throw a rock at a bald face hornets nest?

They don’t spend a great deal of time thinking about the nuance of the precise rock strike.

BobMbx on April 14, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Yeah, get it over with already.

Is it even humane to leave NK as-is with its people starving and committing suicide on a mass scale but to not just bomb em and get it over with?

Neo on April 14, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Or we could have just let Japan stand on it’s own and develop nukes decades ago. Nuclear proliferation is like the second amendment on a national level: when you outlaw nukes, only outlaws will have nukes. End of story my friends. Seoul needs to get cracking too.

abobo on April 14, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Not everyone agrees with Suri, of course. Over at OTB, Steven Taylor seems to think this is a rerun of a bad movie he’s seen before.

Iraq was nothing like this situation. Iraq was a belligerent loser of war and they continued to violate our restrictions placed on them, enforced by own military, time and time again. We can argue about the value of invading Iraq in retrospect, but the events leading up to the second Iraq war really do not mirror the situation we’re in with North Korea at all.

NotCoach on April 14, 2013 at 6:47 PM

I say we hit North Korea with an ESD. It won’t do that much damage. Almost 97% of the country is without electricity anyway…

CynicalOptimist on April 14, 2013 at 6:47 PM

Can anyone tell me weather or not our Tomahawk submarine launched cruise missiles can foil today’s anti missile defense systems? If so call up kim-lil-penis and say you have 10 minutes to concede to ALL of our demands our your ass is glass.

rottenrobbie on April 14, 2013 at 6:48 PM

But as I said, that’s really just depression talking

Hand over all of your weapons immediately! /Obama.

OldEnglish on April 14, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Drop lavishly illustrated scratch ‘n sniff menus.

Just to give the populace something to chew over.

profitsbeard on April 14, 2013 at 6:51 PM

Doesn’t this type of move prove China’s fears true?

aryeung on April 14, 2013 at 6:51 PM

How stupid the US people are for having voted for these weaseals and eunuchs. Kerry’s stupid face is perfect for today’s USA.

President Reagan weeps in his grave for his once great land.

Schadenfreude on April 14, 2013 at 6:41 PM

I know, it sickens me to watch this man, at least Clinton was somewhat tolerable and easier to ignore, she was totally indifferent to me really (until Benghazi and ‘what difference at this point does it make…’ that is, but then she was gone soon after that)…Kerry on the other hand, represents everything I detest in a politician and actually in a man…

jimver on April 14, 2013 at 6:57 PM

You too can rent that pony for birthday parties.

kurtzz3 on April 14, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Nah, not yet.

Philly on April 14, 2013 at 6:59 PM

Not claiming and foreign policy prescience, I’d suggest that 1) NK is a Chinese sock puppet, 2) the Chinese just won whatever they wanted by our latest capitulation. See Drudge re: Kerry and missile defense today.

Given the current regime in Washington, all our enemies have to do is present a good excuse for capitulation and we’ll do it.

CrazyGene on April 14, 2013 at 7:03 PM

….I admit to wondering if it wasn’t time to just send some smart bombs in to the location of his next photo op and be done with him before he can spawn another generation of daft tyrants. But as I said, that’s really just depression talking, and not something I see as viable at this moment.

Oooooh Jazz I would watch it with THAT kind of talk ’round here, might get you banned! Talking about ‘offing’ someone in power… just sayin’ ya know!

;-D

Next time don’t be so explicit ok?

There’s a good chap…

Le Sigh

Scrumpy on April 14, 2013 at 7:04 PM

Who’s running Nork, anyway? I doubt we have a plan for what to do with it once we radiate it, so let the South Koreans deal with it. What? More unfunded wars? Liberal heads will explode, if not the Norks.

Philly on April 14, 2013 at 7:04 PM

With the people we have running the country, and the population that put them there, no good can come from a renewed war in Korea. Would Cindy Sheehan be back in the limelight? Would Reid declare the war is lost soon after hostilities start and there are a lot of American casualties?

I don’t trust Washington to run a war properly with this crew in charge.

Liam on April 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Not claiming and foreign policy prescience, I’d suggest that 1) NK is a Chinese sock puppet, 2) the Chinese just won whatever they wanted by our latest capitulation. See Drudge re: Kerry and missile defense today.

Given the current regime in Washington, all our enemies have to do is present a good excuse for capitulation and we’ll do it.

CrazyGene on April 14, 2013 at 7:03 PM

Americans turning into French, whaa? :)…I reject this scenario :)

jimver on April 14, 2013 at 7:11 PM

If this is coming from the NY Times–stenographers for the regime–you can be sure this is what this coterie of clueless morons, whose boneheaded maneuvers (Albright,et,al.)led to this situation,are contemplating.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on April 14, 2013 at 7:13 PM

65+ years babysitting.
leave it or nuke it.

dmacleo on April 14, 2013 at 7:16 PM

While chatting with my dad-in-law the other day, this came up in conversation. He’s a WWII vet. His response? “Who the he!! is in charge? Back when we had leaders, we KNEW what to do.”

I had no response. Who can argue with success.

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 7:20 PM

No.

MadisonConservative on April 14, 2013 at 7:21 PM

First strike?
First occupation?
First to nation build?

Eff that, holmes. If we break it, we buy it.

ted c on April 14, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Time for a first strike on North Korea?

Excellent Idea,and if the job gets done right,

presto: Freedom Bay!
=====================

https://twitter.com/himCoop/status/318906463823220737/photo/1

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:28 PM

If you break it, you break it. Don’t buy it, just break it real good.

VorDaj on April 14, 2013 at 7:33 PM

North Korea rejects South’s call to resolve nuclear crisis as a ‘dirty trick’ – @SkyNews

11 hours ago from news.sky.com by editor
=============================================

Japan and US cannot allow North Korea to have nuclear weapons, foreign minister says after Kerry meeting – @Reuters

11 hours ago from http://www.reuters.com by editor
================================================

North Korea criticizes Seoul for ‘insulting’ founder’s birthday – @YonhapNews

18 hours ago from english.yonhapnews.co.kr by editor
========================================================

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/north-and-south-korea-tensions

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Time for a first strike on North Korea?

Excellent Idea,and if the job gets done right,

presto: Freedom Bay!
=====================

https://twitter.com/himCoop/status/318906463823220737/photo/1

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:28 PM

I can see it now: a revival of “yes, we can!”

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 7:35 PM

I think the NK issue will dissipate shortly after the ruling class shoves amnesty and gun-control down Americas’ throat.

FloatingRock on April 14, 2013 at 7:36 PM

North Korea criticizes Seoul for ‘insulting’ founder’s birthday

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Boo hoo hoo. What is it with these thin-skinned tinpot dictators? They’re as bad as American liberals, always being big crybabies over their tender little hurt feelings.

Liam on April 14, 2013 at 7:38 PM

North Korea Military Tactics In A War With US
A Strategy Of Massive Retaliations Against US Attacks

By Han Ho Suk
Director Center for Korean Affairs
(An English abstract of a paper)
********************************

North Korea has not only the military power but also the political will to wage total war against the United States.

1. North Korea Can Engage the US in Total War
(More….)
==========

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=6133

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Is it even humane to leave NK as-is with its people starving and committing suicide on a mass scale but to not just bomb em and get it over with?

Neo on April 14, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Humanity has nothing to do with it. It’s simply a matter of practicality. Seoul would be destroyed and while we could probably rebuild South Korea, they have the money to. No one has the money to do a Marshall plan on the North.

Plus you’d have to deprogram 20 million people.

Very sad situation, but you can’t help a junkie who doesn’t want help.

rbj on April 14, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Kim Sun FunYun is having himself a little Genghis Khan fantasy I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan_Equestrian_Statue

NorKor Commie Kimmie ya gots a long way to go to get to the Mongol warrior legend status.

PappyD61 on April 14, 2013 at 7:44 PM

US Forces Order of Battle

Further Reading

USFK ORBAT
USFK ORBAT – 19 Dec 2011
USFK ORBAT – 01 May 2009
USFK ORBAT – 01 Jan 2005
USFK ORBAT – 18 May 2004
USFK ORBAT – 2003-2004
USFK ORBAT – 01 Nov 2002

US Forces Japan ORBAT
US Forces Japan ORBAT – 19 Dec 2011
US Forces Japan ORBAT – 01 May 2009
US Forces Japan ORBAT – 2005

Carrier Locations

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/korea-orbat.htm

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:47 PM

Sweet thought but I hardly think that the ten minutes it would take to toss 10,000 152mms on Seoul is enough time for the South Koreans to duck. Ever been close to just one 152mm finding Mother Earth? It’ll do more than make you blink.

Limerick on April 14, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Tell Me How This Starts
What war on the Korean Peninsula would look like.
BY PATRICK M. CRONIN | APRIL 3, 2013
************************************

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/03/tell_me_how_this_starts

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Is bombing 3rd world (or in the case of North Korea, 4th world) countries the neocon solution to everything?

antifederalist on April 14, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Think Again: North Korea
North Korea is a lot more dangerous than you think, but that doesn’t mean that Kim Jong Un is insane.
BY DAVID KANG, VICTOR CHA | MARCH 25, 2013
******************************************

But there’s another point that is often overlooked: North Korea today can threaten all of South Korea and parts of Japan with its conventional missiles and its conventional military. The North can fire 500,000 rounds of artillery on Seoul in the first hour of a conflict.*More…)

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/03/25/think_again_north_korea
===========================

https://twitter.com/foreignpolicy

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 8:01 PM

President Reagan weeps in his grave for his once great land.

Schadenfreude on April 14, 2013 at 6:41 PM

He isn’t the only one.

bazil9 on April 14, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Hmmmm…

North Korea Is the Boy Who Cried Wolf: There Will Be No War
East AsiaRegionNorth Korea
April 10, 2013
By Robert E. Kelly
******************

http://thediplomat.com/2013/04/10/north-korea-is-the-boy-who-cried-wolf-there-will-be-no-war/

https://twitter.com/Diplomat_APAC

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Deterrence:
What did I miss here?
1. North Korea has a standing Army larger then all the others in the area combined.
2. They have dozens of nuclear weapons that are proven to work.
3. They have the means to deliver these weapons.
4. They have declared WAR.
What do we wait for, Seoul Korea or Tokyo Japan to become a cinder?
Again, They Declared WAR

jpcpt03 on April 14, 2013 at 8:08 PM

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 7:28 PM

I can see it now: a revival of “yes, we can!”

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 7:35 PM

jersey taxpayer:

Oh lordy,with the “Change You Can Believe In “..crap,..Ugh!

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 8:13 PM

I say we hit North Korea with an ESD. It won’t do that much damage. Almost 97% of the country is without electricity anyway…

CynicalOptimist on April 14, 2013 at 6:47 PM

I like the way you think…go on.

There are ways to destroy something..if your creative enough.
New thinking required.

I don’t trust Washington to run a war properly with this crew in charge.

Liam on April 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Yes..and there is that.

Don’t buy it, just break it real good.

VorDaj on April 14, 2013 at 7:33 PM

I’m with you. Unfortunately.. our lords aren’t.
ROE set the tone to lose and our soldiers are pawns..then we want to nation build.
Big NO from me.

bazil9 on April 14, 2013 at 8:14 PM

This seems like a bad idea for many reasons.

Let them fire the damn thing. So long as it’s not going to hit South Korea, Japan or any piece of American property then it’s better to let it do its thing, watch it and see what it can do. In the absence of better intelligence the best way to figure out how good their technology is is by letting them demonstrate their technology.

alchemist19 on April 14, 2013 at 8:18 PM

LIVE Official North Korean TV Streamiing,

currently, GrandPa,and Dad of Kim JuniourInSaneNutJob!

http://112.170.78.145:50000/chosun

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 8:18 PM

We don’t need an occupation there or any sort of nation re-building efforts.

there would be no occupation or nation building of any sort. china would not allow that. in fact it’s very likely a first strike would cause china to mobilize and get more aggressive.

chasdal on April 14, 2013 at 8:24 PM

Deterrence:
What did I miss here?
1. North Korea has a standing Army larger then all the others in the area combined.
2. They have dozens of nuclear weapons that are proven to work.
3. They have the means to deliver these weapons.
4. They have declared WAR.
What do we wait for, Seoul Korea or Tokyo Japan to become a cinder?
Again, They Declared WAR

jpcpt03 on April 14, 2013 at 8:08 PM

If we hit them first and attempt a decapitation strike there’s no guarantee it will be successful (we tried with Saddam on the first night of the Iraq war, remember?) and even if it is and we get Kim Jong Un there could be enough military strength left there afterward for them to turn Seoul and/or Tokyo into a cinder. What we’re waiting for is them to fall apart on their own like the Soviets did.

alchemist19 on April 14, 2013 at 8:24 PM

O/T: Interesting piece by Michael Ledeen over at PJ Media.

NotCoach on April 14, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Meh. A detail that can be ignored in the ‘official’ telling of what happened. Doesn’t warrant the level of desperate coverup that we are getting.

The only theory that does is that the numbers killed are far higher than released. No survivors to be interviewed. A death toll of 10-20 might be worth the coverup.

slickwillie2001 on April 14, 2013 at 8:32 PM

All of this presupposes regular bombs.

Custer, precision guided, gravity, cruise, any of the rest of it…yeah, what’s the effing point?

It’s time to nut up or shut up.

If we’re going to do this, the use our most powerful weapons.

If your not going to even entertain the idea of using nukes, then forget it.

Enough piecemeal.

catmman on April 14, 2013 at 8:32 PM

What we’re waiting for is them to fall apart on their own like the Soviets did.

alchemist19 on April 14, 2013 at 8:24 PM

I doubt North Korea would topple in the same way that the Soviet Union did. Despite being a hell hole all its own the Soviet people were still light years above the North Korean people in their standard of living. And perestroika opened their eyes to what they were missing out on and also emboldened them to think they could stand against their own government. Nothing similar exists in North Korea amongst a people totally ignorant of the outside world and always on the verge of starvation.

I don’t point this out because I think we should strike first (we shouldn’t), but because the reality is that it is much more likely things will get bloody on the Korean peninsula before North Korea falls because of the unique hell hole that it is.

NotCoach on April 14, 2013 at 8:34 PM

Looks like we’re going to give them aid, and this will go away for another three years and then start over.

The Rogue Tomato on April 14, 2013 at 8:37 PM

How many power plants does N. Korear have? One missile per power station launched from subs would decimate the entire country. Wait one week and then walk right in to Pyongyang.

tom daschle concerned on April 14, 2013 at 8:38 PM

antifederalist on April 14, 2013 at 7:56 PM

nah, let’s do a jimmah and cower under our sheets!

—————

Oh lordy,with the “Change You Can Believe In “..crap,..Ugh!

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Ha yeah–as IF! Will Johnson or Harper give us a ‘left (or right) flank? /

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Wait one week and then walk right in to Pyongyang.

tom daschle concerned on April 14, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Yeah, we’ll have to be careful walking over all those spent shell casings. I don’t think they need NORKelectic connected to the artillery.

Limerick on April 14, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Enough piecemeal.

catmman on April 14, 2013 at 8:32 PM

couldn’t agree more!

+ 1x?

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Trade.

Trade is the answer.

Trade is the solution.

Time to trade.

We give them Obama.

They give us Kim Jung Un.

Obama can finally have his socialist paradise where he can make all the decisions by Executive order.

Kim…well…give us a few days…

Being around Biden 24/7 will make him want to quit.

Gladly.

Good trade.

coldwarrior on April 14, 2013 at 8:44 PM

coldwarrior on April 14, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Ha! If not THE best, up there in the top three comments I’ve ever seen posted on Hot Gas! A brilliant idea! Kudos!

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 8:47 PM

They officially discontinued the peace treaty. Hold them to their word and destroy them. a massive food aide from the south would win hearts and minds.

Grunt on April 14, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Is bombing 3rd world (or in the case of North Korea, 4th world) countries the neocon solution to everything?

antifederalist on April 14, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Oh, pish tosh!

We’re neocons. It’s what we do, paulbot.

Get over it.

Solaratov on April 14, 2013 at 8:57 PM

That horse probably gets treated better than 99.9% of North Koreans.

NotCoach on April 14, 2013 at 6:42 PM

…it’s well fed…if I was the horse…I would worry!

KOOLAID2 on April 14, 2013 at 8:59 PM

But if we strike first, that’s precisely the type of excuse the next leadership of North Korea, not to mention China

Looks like we haven’t learned a damn thing. We have to wait for another 911 or a Pearl Harbor before…before we retaliate?

Doesn’t matter when we strike…before or after… they’ll hopefully kick us out of the UN and we’ll still get grief from the worlds mutts.

Do it now…bust their gongs.

Twana on April 14, 2013 at 9:25 PM

Is bombing 3rd world (or in the case of North Korea, 4th world) countries the neocon solution to everything?

antifederalist on April 14, 2013 at 7:56 PM

yeah the NYT is a bastion of neocons

dmacleo on April 14, 2013 at 9:26 PM

UN wants us to get rid of nukes.
I know a way to do it that also ends our babysitting services over there.

dmacleo on April 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM

First strike Oon nK no…

Overwhelming second strike (USN carriers, USAF bombers and eventual USMC and US Army ground forces) to serve as clear warning for anyone else in history NOT to attack ROK, resulting in certain reunification WITHOUT NEGOTIATION of the country of Korea (thx Japan, USSR and ChiComs for putting the world in this situation for the last 100 years): yes… ABSOLUTELY YES!!

Khun Joe on April 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM

This has to be left up to the South.

The fighting, and the costs of reunification, if they can achieve it.

Air support; fine. Naval support; fine. But not front line troops, not American lives, and not American money.

If we can shoot down anything he launches, probably, I see no point in agitating for a first strike. You can let the other guy shoot first when you can shoot his bullet. And since we can do that, there is no moral reason to initiate hostilities. So far, all they’ve done is bluster and move a missile into position. We’ve moved our anti-missile batteries into position as well.

Patience is cheap, and we’re broke.

TexasDan on April 14, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Patience is cheap, and we’re broke.

TexasDan on April 14, 2013 at 9:41 PM

I nominate this as the watchphrase of the Korean standoff.

MelonCollie on April 14, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Limerick on April 14, 2013 at 7:54 PM

This.

soundingboard on April 14, 2013 at 9:48 PM

bazil9 on April 14, 2013 at 8:14 PM

I kinda miss the days when you used your military for nation-breaking rather than nation-building…

affenhauer on April 14, 2013 at 10:02 PM

chasdal on April 14, 2013 at 8:24 PM

maybe prior to a first strike on the NorKs, wee pull our diplomats out of Beijing — subtle message, y’know..?

affenhauer on April 14, 2013 at 10:04 PM

Latest NK!
============

North and South Korea tensions

North Korea dismisses offer of talks with South as John Kerry urges dialogue – @guardiannews

22 mins ago from http://www.guardian.co.uk by editor

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/north-and-south-korea-tensions

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 10:07 PM

We left it to the South in Vietnam as well.

Then we abandoned them.

I hope we have also learned that lesson.

And any use of American military power is going to cost us money. If your for not spending our treasure, fine.

But it’s all or nothing anymore.

Enough with the halfazzed, half baked support and force.

If we’re going to get involved, then we’re either in it to win it or we don’t do it.

Period.

catmman on April 14, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Gladly.

Good trade.

coldwarrior on April 14, 2013 at 8:44 PM

coldwarrior:Tee-hee:)

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 10:15 PM

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Ha yeah–as IF! Will Johnson or Harper give us a ‘left (or right) flank? /

jersey taxpayer on April 14, 2013 at 8:40 PM

jersey taxpayer:Lol,I doubt (Harper),would go unto NK,especially
with un-trust-worthy Obama’s proven track record
of turning on Allies!:)

canopfor on April 14, 2013 at 10:19 PM

No “first strike” !!!

This is the UN’s war. Let them handle it.
I’ve already lost one uncle to this stupid war.

J_Crater on April 14, 2013 at 11:33 PM

Doesn’t matter when we strike…before or after… they’ll hopefully kick us out of the UN and we’ll still get grief from the worlds mutts.

Twana on April 14, 2013 at 9:25 P

That will never – NEVER!! – happen. Then those looters and leeches might actually be forced to pay their own way…rather than mooch off of us.

If anybody gets kicked out of anything, it’ll be the un out of the US (if we ever get a leader and congress with a full set of gonads).

Solaratov on April 14, 2013 at 11:49 PM

If I go over and knock him off, can I have his horse?

IlikedAUH2O on April 15, 2013 at 12:01 AM

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will leave on Sunday for a visit to Benin, Ghana and Niger, the world’s fourth-largest uranium producer, the Fars news agency reported.

He will meet the presidents of the three countries and sign agreements to develop economic and political relations, Fars said without providing details.

Ahmadinejad is to arrive in Benin on Sunday afternoon on an official visit in his capacity as chairman of the Non-Aligned Movement of countries, the country’s foreign minister, Nassirou Arifari Bako, told AFP.

“Education, agriculture and, above all, energy” will be on the agenda, the minister said.

The Iranian president then heads to Niger on Monday for a two-day visit, the government in Niamey said.

“He will lead a large delegation and both our nations will discuss cooperation and means of strengthening it,” Iran’s ambassador told reporters after a meeting with Niger’s President Mahamadou Issoufou.

Mohammad Nikkhah said the visit would be a turning point in bilateral ties and would yield “excellent opportunities that will benefit both peoples”.

He did not elaborate, but Niger is one of the world’s top producers of uranium, which Iran has long been seeking to acquire for its controversial nuclear program.

… no word on the whereabouts of Joe Wilson.

J_Crater on April 15, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Um, NO.

China might understand if we had to respond to their puppet nation going out of control. But if we hit first, I guarantee you they call our debt faster than Obama can tell a lie.

MelonCollie on April 15, 2013 at 1:15 AM

Enough with the halfazzed, half baked support and force.

If we’re going to get involved, then we’re either in it to win it or we don’t do it.

Period.

catmman on April 14, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Damned right.

Step #1: Change the Dept of Defense BACK to War Dept.

Step #2: Reread the name “War Dept” and the rest is easy.

BlaxPac on April 15, 2013 at 1:24 AM

With sufficient provocation being displayed for all to see, nobody we care about (read: China and Russia) will care much if we go in after that and flatten a fair bit of the country and take out Kim. But if we strike first

So we should wait to see where their missiles strike before acting?

You’ve been hanging around with AP & Ed too long.

We’ve had satellite eyes on them long enough and seen them launch missiles enough times to be able to figure out when they are getting ready to fire. Taking out one on the launch pad will send a clear message: you aren’t big league material yet.

Adjoran on April 15, 2013 at 1:45 AM

The unfortunate truth is that a Chamberlain act alike is the US CIC and many, many people will die as a result.

growl on April 15, 2013 at 2:56 AM

They have been indoctrinated since birth to believe that the United States is the Great Evil

Do you mean that NEA union teachers do the education in North Korea?

SubmarineDoc on April 15, 2013 at 4:36 AM

We’ve had satellite eyes on them long enough and seen them launch missiles enough times to be able to figure out when they are getting ready to fire. Taking out one on the launch pad will send a clear message: you aren’t big league material yet.

Adjoran on April 15, 2013 at 1:45 AM

Perhaps we should figure out who exactly is in charge before making such decisions. Lil Kim hasn’t been seen for a couple weeks. And, BTW, satellites won’t give the answer to that.

Happy Nomad on April 15, 2013 at 7:30 AM

Throwing a few bombs and missiles won’t do any good, it would only make matters worse by justifying the North’s leadership’s paranoia. If anything is done it has to be a swift, full out occupation of the entire country. Turn the real estate over to the South and be done with it.

What the Chinese would do is the kicker. They don’t want the US deciding what happens in their front yard. But they don’t want their country flooded with refugees in case of war. But this will happen if the North start down a path of internal disintegration. Now would be the time for the US and South Korea to make arrangements that they would deal with refugees. The South is just going to have to take care of their own to keep China more willing to constructively deal with matters.

But in all of this we can count on our Ditherer-in-Chief to make a mess out of it, if he actually does anything. If he does anything it will be fitful and he won’t know how to follow through.

bartbeast on April 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM

What did I miss here?
1. North Korea has a standing Army larger then all the others in the area combined.

Yeah. And about 3 days of supply.

2. They have dozens of nuclear weapons that are proven to work.

Link please. How do you know this and no one else does?

3. They have the means to deliver these weapons.

So does the Vatican, for that matter. All any weapon has to do is “get there”. The delivery system is irrelevant.

4. They have declared WAR.

Make a note of this: Since the “end” of the Korean conflict, a state of war has always existed. The diplomatic tool under which both sides have been operating is known as a “Cease Fire”. The Norks did not declare war; they cancelled the cease fire. Hmmm….but they haven’t started shooting. I wonder why.

What do we wait for, Seoul Korea or Tokyo Japan to become a cinder?
Again, They Declared WAR

jpcpt03 on April 14, 2013 at 8:08 PM

No, they didn’t. See #4 above. And to your doomsday scenario of smoking cinders…..you must be assuming that S. Korea and Japan are completely helpless, and we’ve somehow become Obi Wan Kenobi, their only hope.

BobMbx on April 15, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Throwing a few bombs and missiles won’t do any good, it would only make matters worse by justifying the North’s leadership’s paranoia.

They’re not paranoid about being attacked. They’re scared to death of losing power. Those are different “feelings”.

Somehow the antics of the Kim empire has been the aura of nuttiness. They’re just dictators who kill people to stay in power.

Thats all.

BobMbx on April 15, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Amazing that we are discussing military tactics advanced by the NYT.

Of course you can’t just bomb NK.

The right approach is to focus on the issue with NK which is its concentation camp system. The world needs to be mobilized against that, whether China likes it or not. If they want to be the lone supporters of NK, let them solve the problem.

Secondly, Congress should formally recognize the declaration of War by NK, detailing every hostile act and official statement.

All of the groundwork needs to be laid out internationally, and according to US law, for action on all fronts, economic, diplomatic and military.

Any “accidents” or mis-steps by the NK military would then be corrected by overwhelming response. The systematic torture of thousands of families is a stain on humanity, not some bargaining chip in a geopolitical imperialist struggle. The particular US interest is in not having to put up with further nuclearthreats from NK. This logic is not difficult for us or them.

virgo on April 15, 2013 at 11:23 AM

Instead of “cookie cutter” bombs I recommend the “cookie cluster” bomb, packed with Oreos and Fig Newtons. They’ll all be too busy trying to milk any available mammal for a glassful to launch any missiles.

M240H on April 14, 2013 at 6:41 PM

For the longest time I’ve advocated sending B-52s over loaded with Snickers, granola bars, and apples. With little parachutes on them. Cover the country with those and see what happens.

I don’t trust Washington to run a war properly with this crew in charge.

Liam on April 14, 2013 at 7:07 PM

I don’t trust them to run a lemonade stand properly, but I get ya.

GWB on April 15, 2013 at 12:54 PM

But there’s another point that is often overlooked: North Korea today can threaten all of South Korea and parts of Japan with its conventional missiles and its conventional military. The North can fire 500,000 rounds of artillery on Seoul in the first hour of a conflict.*More…)

Excellent point. Which is why we need to have US and South Korean planes armed with smart bombs flying continuous surveillance just south of the DMZ. Any of those artillery batteries that opens fire gets taken out.

As for Suri’s idea, leave the Nork missile on the pad, as long as it doesn’t lift off. If it goes anywhere near South Korea or Japan, then shoot it down, and show the Norks that their missiles are no real threat to the US or its allies (South Korea and Japan), and that we cannot be blackmailed.

Steve Z on April 15, 2013 at 1:48 PM

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