Don’t be fooled. Gun confiscation has already begun in NY

posted at 11:31 am on April 13, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

We’ve heard it over and over again, particularly on shows like Morning Joe. Anyone who thinks that the government is “coming to take your guns” is a paranoid loon, watching for black helicopters and guarding their sheep from soldiers. Unfortunately for those formerly right leaning, Second Amendment minded folks who bought into this story, reality has come screaming up from behind well ahead of schedule.

Following the passage of “The SAFE Act” in New York State, Big Brother got busy pretty quickly grabbing up the guns. Of course nobody was reporting on it very much until they managed to collect them from the wrong guy and a judge made them give them back.

BUFFALO, N.Y. — Thursday, a state Supreme Court Judge ruled guns seized from David Lewis, 35, must be returned to him after he was incorrectly identified as violating the mental health provision of the SAFE Act.

“We know that from the health care agency to the State Police, there was some kind of breach,” said Lewis’ attorney, Jim Tresmond.

I don’t know how much more chilling that lede could be, really. This isn’t some worry about the government possibly confiscating guns. These are guns that were already confiscated by the government. But if you think that’s as bad as it gets, guess again. Here’s why his guns were taken.

Tresmond says his client was ordered to turn in his weapons last week because he was once on anti-anxiety medication, which is a violation of the SAFE Act. Wednesday, State Police informed the Erie County Clerk’s Office that it made a mistake when it said Lewis was in violation of the state’s new gun law.

For all of our more liberal leaning readers who continue to ask “what’s so bad” about universal background checks before we’ve even seen the specifics, this is your answer. In New York, you can be placed on a “list”of people with no Second Amendment rights on the say so of any doctor who has questions. And it already happened to David Lewis. Thankfully, he’s getting his guns back… for now. But what is the larger effect of this if we put it on a national scale?

The NY SAFE Act requires “mental health professionals, in the exercise of reasonable professional judgment, to report if an individual they are treating is likely to engage in conduct that will cause serious harm to him- or herself or others.”

If such a determination is made, “the Division of Criminal Justice Services will determine whether the person possesses a firearms license and, if so, will notify the appropriate local licensing official, who must suspend the license. The person’s firearms will then be removed.”

The law has come under fire from gun-rights advocates as well as mental health professionals, who fear the new law discourages people from seeking professional help for mental health issues.

Okay, I can see your point about the adverse effect on those seeking help for mental disorders. If you know that you’ll have your constitutional rights curtailed if you tell a doctor you are depressed or filled with anxiety, you might not go seek help. But that also sort of buries the lede here…

They’re Already Taking Away Guns From People For Having ONCE Been Prescribed ANTI-ANXIETY MEDICINE.

Doug Mataconis gives the legal beagle perspective on catching up people seeking medical help in a legal net. (Read the whole thing.)

The SAFE Act in particular seems to me to be overly broad in defining what qualifies as a reportable condition. It’s one thing for a person who is delusional on the level of a Seung-Hui Choi or Jared Loughner to be caught up in the net, it is quite another for someone who was apparently merely on an anti-anxiety drug to have their Constitutional rights limited. If taking that kind of medication is enough to get you on a list, then what about the millions upon millions of Americans who are on some form of anti-depressant or who take medication that alters their mood in any manner? Are they going to get put on a government list too, and what, exactly, is the government going to do with that list? History is replete with examples of psychiatry being abused by the state, and the danger of abuse becomes even higher when the law broadens the number of conditions that are reportable to the state.

We have thus far been unable to get anyone from New York to own up to how many people have had their guns taken away this year under the new SAFE Act. Neither has the YNN news team. But the facts in evidence are not in dispute. The law is still so new that the “new law smell” hasn’t worn off it yet but they are already going around and confiscating guns.

This new universal background check bill is the hot ticket in DC right now. You can read the full text of it here, which thus far contains nothing about expanding how one qualifies as “mentally ill” but there are multiple amendments to come, so we don’t even know what will be in the final version. A repeating theme is that it will have to “do something” about keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. But how is that to be accomplished? Will it only affect those who have been adjudicated in court to be proven, dangerous, unstable individuals and who have had the opportunity to object to their classification? Or will it be something that slides closer to what we now have in New York?

And yet… we’re all paranoid. Right, Joe Scarborough? I could insert one clip after another of the insulting, uninformed comments in the mainstream media made toward those who expressed concerns over this type of unbridled nanny state activity. But you’ve seen them all before. and there’s no use boring you with them here again now. As for me, I’ll stay in my basement, eating my Cheetos, cleaning my Glock and guarding the sheep. You never know.

UPDATE: (Jazz) From the comments. An excellent question.

Number one question for those who favor “universal background checks” – how do you enforce them?
In other words, how will authorities know if an individual who possesses a firearm submitted to a background check?
If they can answer this question without needing to resort to a database, or a registry, then I am all ears.

dugan on April 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM


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But we’re whacko-birds, right, Johnny Mac?

Washington Nearsider on April 13, 2013 at 11:35 AM

So now the first step will be for doctors to prescribe anti-anxiety drugs to patients and then to report those patients under the SAFE act so that the guns they asked them about owning earlier can be confiscated. Is that just about right?

CitizenEgg on April 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM

Once the resistance begins…

trs on April 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM

The government never ever gets it wrong…DHS knows what they are doing.

The government will protect all of us 100% of the time…if you let them.

No Obama government official has ever really really messed up…you are just being a hater.

Just need to pass stronger laws and that will stop the violence.

If only everybody would just get along.

Got to compromise…that’s the ticket.

The Bill of Rights is sooo outdated, really.

Why are conservatives such haters, anyway?

If it saves just one life…then lets kill the Second Amendment.

Just posting some of the drivel I’ve heard recently from the mouths of liberals, in this small college town.

coldwarrior on April 13, 2013 at 11:41 AM

Once the resistance begins…

trs on April 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM

There’s no hurricane devastation, the Internet and phones are online.

It’s now or never, and I have a sinking feeling it’ll be “never”. Because people are going to remember how the lightly-armed resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan got CREAMED in a stand-up fight. And Americans aren’t Arab barbarians who’re happy to live in caves and die for Allah.

MelonCollie on April 13, 2013 at 11:42 AM

As for me, I’ll stay indoors, eating my spinach salad, cleaning my Kimber and guarding the dog (she’s cute and a kidnap risk). You never know.

KirknBurker on April 13, 2013 at 11:42 AM

Kind of reminds me of what happened to dissidents, in the Soviet Union.

Where psychiatry was used as a political weapon and, as a result, dissidents were confined, drugged and persecuted.

Here, dissidents i.e., gun owners, will be disarmed under the same guise – if that filthy Communist has his way.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 11:43 AM

In New York, you can be placed on a “list”of people with no Second Amendment rights on the say so of any doctor who has questions.

And if your doctor happens to be a liberal or an anti-gun activist, your chances of keeping your 2A rights are somewhere between slim and zero.

petefrt on April 13, 2013 at 11:47 AM

If anti-anxiety meds impair judgment so badly that constitutional rights can be removed, can we take away voting rights, too?

ex Dem from Miami on April 13, 2013 at 11:48 AM

It’s hard not to foresee a massive conservative exodus from New York and other states that have enacted these kinds of laws. What if the whole country polarized itself into liberal and conservative (statist and free) states? The only issue would be who had the ultimate authority… Wait , this is somehow familiar…

cornbred on April 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM

Will it only affect those who have been adjudicated in court to be proven, dangerous, unstable individuals and who have had the opportunity to object to their classification? Or will it be something that slides closer to what we now have in New York?

This isn’t just a violation of the second amendment, but the fifth as well! Due process! Due process! Due process! Due process!

clement on April 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM

Don’t be fooled. Gun confiscation has already begun in NY

…here comes another run on the gun stores!

KOOLAID2 on April 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM

NY state police called my mother’s house looking for me when handgun when my CCW expired about 10 years ago, wanting me to “surrender my weapon”. I called them back and told them I moved to VA, and they left me alone.

crrr6 on April 13, 2013 at 11:52 AM

…under Obamacare…we’ll all be ‘NUTS’…

KOOLAID2 on April 13, 2013 at 11:52 AM

What about all the gang members the police know about? Why won’t the cops go after their guns? Think of all the unsolved murder cases and other shootings that can at last see justice done.

Liam on April 13, 2013 at 11:53 AM

What if the whole country polarized itself into liberal and conservative (statist and free) states? The only issue would be who had the ultimate authority… Wait , this is somehow familiar…

cornbred on April 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM

In the greatest of ironies, the north will now be the states that want to live off of other people’s labor.

When it comes to that, pray the south learned from last time. Deer rifles may be good enough for infantry action, but if you have nothing to stop tanks or artillery batteries or rains of cruise missiles flattening all your cities, you won’t be able to protect the way of life you’re fighting for.

MelonCollie on April 13, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Big deal. No one is going to do anything about this. Right-leaning media will bellyache on their blogs and radio shows, their audience will type furiously in comment amongst each other, and nothing will come of it.

beatcanvas on April 13, 2013 at 11:54 AM

O/T (sorry Jazz–it’s a short one)

Should Tiger Woods withdraw from the Masters—for signing an incorrect score card? If he doesn’t then Roberto De Vincenzo deserves a Green Jacket.

Rovin on April 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Once the resistance begins…

trs on April 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM

There’s no hurricane devastation, the Internet and phones are online.

It’s now or never, and I have a sinking feeling it’ll be “never”. Because people are going to remember how the lightly-armed resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan got CREAMED in a stand-up fight. And Americans aren’t Arab barbarians who’re happy to live in caves and die for Allah.

MelonCollie on April 13, 2013 at 11:42 AM

Yep.

There will be no “resistance” against the government, even if the government goes for complete gun confiscation, even if they seize your retirement funds and bank accounts, even if Obama were to permanently dismiss Congress tomorrow and suspend further elections. This will not change unless and until the EBT cards stop working.

People need to stop daydreaming about revolt (which, in the fantasy, is always started and done by someone else) and look to take care of themselves and their families.

Doomberg on April 13, 2013 at 11:58 AM

In Missouri recently the State Patrol handed over a list of every single state CCW holder to the FBI, not once but twice, an act which was against the law.

If you believe that state governments won’t collude with the feds to find a reason, any reason, to deny you your gun rights then you need to get your skull trepanned.

Have an old POS gun ready to turn in if they come looking, and “lose” everything else on a fishing trip.

Bishop on April 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Is this why the medical community has been so hell-bent on prescribing these meds for the past 20 years ??
Hmmm ??

Tin foil hat time ??

pambi on April 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM

History has demonstrated that in the United States, confiscation of arms and ammunition, either directly, or indirectly, by government from competent, law abiding private citizens is an act of war (Battle of Lexington and Concord). One mistake like this situation in Buffalo, NY does not constitute such a provocation, but government gun control and gun grabbing zealots seem to be teetering on the precipice of such a provocation. This is why Americans across the nation are arming in record numbers. If it ever came down to a widespread provocation and confrontation over government arms confiscations, most seasoned warriors from the US Armed Forces would peel away and join with the people for the common defense.

Tripwhipper on April 13, 2013 at 12:01 PM

Is this why the medical community has been so hell-bent on prescribing these meds for the past 20 years ??
Hmmm ??

Tin foil hat time ??

pambi on April 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Maybe. But the medical community has been over-prescribing everything from Viagra to antibiotics to ADHD medication for as long as I’ve been alive.

MelonCollie on April 13, 2013 at 12:01 PM

If it ever came down to a widespread provocation and confrontation over government arms confiscations, most seasoned warriors from the US Armed Forces would peel away and join with the people for the common defense.

Tripwhipper on April 13, 2013 at 12:01 PM


Yeah.
Right.
Sure.

MelonCollie on April 13, 2013 at 12:02 PM

Well, we were told about a week ago that New York was the least free state in the Union, so this doesn’t surprise me.

Aitch748 on April 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Some of the same drugs prescribed for depression are also prescribed to help patients quit smoking. The REB could possibly be put on the list.

slickwillie2001 on April 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Doomberg on April 13, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Such things can take many forms, not necessarily a line of armed men in a field facing down their opponents. All events take a spark and you never know what the spark will be or who will step forward, usually it’s the guy or gal you would least suspect.

Bishop on April 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM

pambi on April 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Just because one is paranoid, does not mean that nobody is out to get them.

coldwarrior on April 13, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Wait till they associate – automatically – the possession of a gun in the home with an immediate threat to the safety of the child.

CommieCare and the tot physician questionnaire re: guns in the home.

America has descended into darkness.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:06 PM

O/T (sorry Jazz–it’s a short one)

Should Tiger Woods withdraw from the Masters—for signing an incorrect score card? If he doesn’t then Roberto De Vincenzo deserves a Green Jacket.

Rovin on April 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Maybe they were warned by Eric Holder?

slickwillie2001 on April 13, 2013 at 12:07 PM

With thanks to Axe who was kind enough to send this link, here is another similar article from J.E. Dyer.
http://libertyunyielding.com/2013/04/10/gun-laws-and-trusting-the-government/

fourdeucer on April 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Number one question for those who favor “universal background checks” – how do you enforce them?

In other words, how will authorities know if an individual who possesses a firearm submitted to a background check?

If they can answer this question without needing to resort to a database, or a registry, then I am all ears.

dugan on April 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM

So now the first step will be for doctors to prescribe anti-anxiety drugs to patients and then to report those patients under the SAFE act so that the guns they asked them about owning earlier can be confiscated. Is that just about right?

CitizenEgg on April 13, 2013 at 11:37 AM

Ring-a-ding-ding. And some people foolishly thought that “mental ‘illness’” wouldn’t be abused by the government.

Steve Eggleston on April 13, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Think I’ll call NYPD and report the names of all of those on Morning Joe. Talk about needing psychiatric help.

GarandFan on April 13, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Thank you New York state. We needed a draconian overreach by state government to validate our arguments against gun control. Thank you.

meci on April 13, 2013 at 12:17 PM

With thanks to Axe who was kind enough to send this link, here is another similar article from J.E. Dyer.

fourdeucer on April 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Does she post on HotAir, anymore?. I haven’t seen her, lately.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Such things can take many forms, not necessarily a line of armed men in a field facing down their opponents. All events take a spark and you never know what the spark will be or who will step forward, usually it’s the guy or gal you would least suspect.

Bishop on April 13, 2013 at 12:03 PM

There’s always a chance something might happen, but I do not have my hopes up after seeing what happened to Cyprus. Foreigners from other countries came in and looted the country like bandits. The people uttered nary a peep, there were hardly even riots. And I am not so sure I accept the premise “America is not Europe” either. We seem to be acting indistinguishably from them these days.

Doomberg on April 13, 2013 at 12:19 PM

With thanks to Axe who was kind enough to send this link, here is another similar article from J.E. Dyer.
http://libertyunyielding.com/2013/04/10/gun-laws-and-trusting-the-government/

fourdeucer on April 13, 2013 at 12:10 PM

…there are 100 U.S. Senators who need to be sent some ‘links’

KOOLAID2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Steve Eggleston on April 13, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Try being a veteran…go to VA for medical treatment or a routine procedure…you will be asked if you own a firearm.

According to this administration, apparently, any veteran with any medical condition, is a potential risk to the community…thus…

Pretty pathetic…serve your Nation, and become pariah, officially.

coldwarrior on April 13, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Stuff like this is what makes normally-honest people need to lie, for their own self-protection.

The evil of liberalism tends, without conscious intent, to lead decent people to also feel need to be otherwise the way liberals are by nature.

Liam on April 13, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Does she post on HotAir, anymore?. I haven’t seen her, lately.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Salem turned the Green Room into employees-only, so J.E. and most of the rest of the Green Room 1.0 contributors moved to Liberty Unyielding.

Steve Eggleston on April 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM

In a way, New York has done us all a big favor by doing the gun grab before now. It provides a certain clearity about the situation.

thuja on April 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Tens of thousands of veterans have been declared incompetent for fiduciary purposes by the VA in the last few years, and have been sent letters from the VA informing them that they are now prohibited from owning firearms. (The second link below indicates that over 127,000 have received such letters.) But it’s not just the letters to vets: the VA notifies the National Instant Criminal Background Check System of each judgment of fiduciary incompetence.

It isn’t just NY and their stupid SAFE ACT, this is from the VA. as quoted from J.E.Dyers article.

fourdeucer on April 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM

To paraphrase Stalin:

Guns won’t confiscate themselves.”

NerObama, Emperor of Panic, cheers this on.

Playing his lyre.

profitsbeard on April 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Salem turned the Green Room into employees-only, so J.E. and most of the rest of the Green Room 1.0 contributors moved to Liberty Unyielding.

Steve Eggleston on April 13, 2013 at 12:23 PM

Thanks, SE.

And that is a loss for HotAir.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Every child who has every been medicated for ADD and ADHD (the mythical illnesses du jour) will be unable to own firearms.

That’s the plan.

profitsbeard on April 13, 2013 at 12:27 PM

This whole piece is alarmist rubbish. The law in question does NOT say that people who are or were once on anti-anxiety medication cannot have weapons. That is ridiculous, and the police acknowledged the mistake:

Wednesday, State Police informed the Erie County Clerk’s Office that it made a mistake when it said Lewis was in violation of the state’s new gun law.

The standard is whether a mental health professional who is currently treating the individual believes that the individual is likely to engage in conduct that would result in serious harm to himself or other people.

Specifically, the law provides, in S 9.46 (REPORTS OF SUBSTANTIAL RISK OR THREAT OF HARM BY MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS):

WHEN A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL CURRENTLY PROVIDING TREATMENT SERVICES TO A PERSON DETERMINES, IN THE EXERCISE OF REASONABLE PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT, THAT SUCH PERSON IS LIKELY TO ENGAGE IN CONDUCT THAT WOULD RESULT IN SERIOUS HARM TO SELF OR OTHERS, HE OR SHE SHALL BE REQUIRED TO REPORT, AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE, TO THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY SERVICES, OR THE DIRECTOR’S DESIGNEE, WHO SHALL REPORT TO THE DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SERVICES WHENEVER HE OR SHE AGREES THAT THE PERSON IS LIKELY TO ENGAGE IN SUCH CONDUCT. INFORMATION TRANSMITTED TO THE DIVISION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE… MAY ONLY BE USED FOR DETERMINING WHETHER A LICENSE…SHOULD BE SUSPENDED OR REVOKED, OR FOR DETERMINING WHETHER A PERSON IS INELIGIBLE FOR A LICENSE ISSUED PURSUANT TO SECTION 400.00 OF THE PENAL LAW, OR IS NO LONGER PERMITTED UNDER STATE OR FEDERAL LAW TO POSSESS A FIREARM.

When the treating provider makes that determination, he/she reports it to the authorities, who then determine whether a license suspension or revocation should follow. If the license is suspended or revoked, the individual can request a hearing to get the guns back, which is what happened here. Aside from the obvious error in this case, which seems to have originated with the doctor, though the article does not make it clear, what is wrong with this procedure? Assuming we can all agree that dangerously mentally ill people should not have guns, how else can we prevent it?

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Number one question for those who favor “universal background checks” – how do you enforce them?

In other words, how will authorities know if an individual who possesses a firearm submitted to a background check?

If they can answer this question without needing to resort to a database, or a registry, then I am all ears.

dugan on April 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM

I think somebody just earned an update to the post…

Jazz Shaw on April 13, 2013 at 12:35 PM

New York needs to get on it, I have ammo that’s waxing. Doors open!EOM…

Tangerinesong on April 13, 2013 at 12:35 PM

I hope the folks I know coming back from the GWOT claiming PTSD weren’t planning on owning guns anytime soon.

hawkdriver on April 13, 2013 at 12:36 PM

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Thanks, you’ve made me feel so much better and safer.

And because of you, I’m going to double-plus-ungood unnecessary terms like future and incrementalism from my vocabulary.

Especially with committed Communists controlling the State apparatus.

Thanks, again.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:37 PM

One of our locally owned gun shops is having a two-day sale, yesterday and today. They are doing a tremendous business, and local police have been on-site for crowd control. They also have no limit on the amount of ammo you can purchase, as long as you’re not trying to buy hundreds of boxes.

So happy to live in the South.

MustLoveBlogs on April 13, 2013 at 12:38 PM

MustLoveBlogs on April 13, 2013 at 12:38 PM

America is headed towards a de facto secession movement.

Hopefully, it will increase/decrease the number of Representatives, accordingly, and where appropriate.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Assuming we can all agree that dangerously mentally ill people should not have guns, how else can we prevent it?

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:30 PM

How about we adjudicate them first. Anyone that is potentially this dangerous needs to be put on an involuntary hold and a determination made that they are not dangerous before they are released. The liberals have gutted the mental healthcare system in the last 30 years. Fix that.

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 12:42 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 12:37 PM

What are you near in OK?

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 12:43 PM

There are many uses for a given drugs. A number of the antidepressants are used in chronic pain patients. Apparently if one has a pain problem they should have their constitutional rights restricted.

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 12:46 PM

How about we adjudicate them first. Anyone that is potentially this dangerous needs to be put on an involuntary hold and a determination made that they are not dangerous before they are released.
Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Seriously? How is arresting and detaining the individual less of a violation of liberty than temporarily suspending his gun license pending a hearing?

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Gallup says Americans want more gun control, amnesty and they trust the President on the economy more than anyone else. Granted these polls aren’t likely voters or even registered voters, but it is still disturbing.

Wigglesworth on April 13, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Try being a veteran…go to VA for medical treatment or a routine procedure…you will be asked if you own a firearm.

According to this administration, apparently, any veteran with any medical condition, is a potential risk to the community…thus…

Pretty pathetic…serve your Nation, and become pariah, officially.

coldwarrior on April 13, 2013 at 12:21 PM

yup.
DAV here and I was asked last time.
I lied.

dmacleo on April 13, 2013 at 12:49 PM

I hope the folks I know coming back from the GWOT claiming PTSD weren’t planning on owning guns anytime soon.

hawkdriver on April 13, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Try being a veteran…go to VA for medical treatment or a routine procedure…you will be asked if you own a firearm.
coldwarrior on April 13, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Right, and while applying for VA disability, certain awards, citations, and medals are qualifying evidence for disability benefits.. You have to actually make it known whether you want PTSD added towards your benefit or just the physical evidence of your claim to be weighted.

fourdeucer on April 13, 2013 at 12:52 PM

or who take medication that alters their mood in any manner?

I have hip impingements. I was on a 400 mg per day regime of Ibuprofen for it. Ibuprofen. One of the side effect is that it can alter a person’s mood. It did to me, which is why I stopped taking it and took up physical therapy instead.

Just more creeping fascism.

rbj on April 13, 2013 at 12:52 PM

Stop bellyaching.
I’m sure that there are oodles of provisions in Obamacare that will protect our privacy and not allow the use of medical information for political purposes, or as way to control what the government has decided are undesirable behaviors.

You’re all being paranoid. (Which, incidentally, might result in your guns being confiscated.)

Oh, and you’re also racists.

justltl on April 13, 2013 at 12:53 PM

The solution to this madness is simple: Every public servant, every law enforcement officer and — most importantly — every elected official must pass a background check of the same order and criteria of that for possessing a gun. If they are found to have anything in their past that would keep them from having a gun, we certainly don’t want them in charge of any government program. Do you think Obama could pass the NY background check?

starboardhelm on April 13, 2013 at 12:54 PM

coldwarrior on April 13, 2013 at 12:21 PM

Try being a veteran…go to VA for medical treatment or a routine procedure…you will be asked if you own a firearm.

Just say No. They’ll either take your word for it, or prove that you’re lying by referring to a gun registry database showing you are in fact a gun owner.

Mr. Pickles on April 13, 2013 at 12:54 PM

They’re Already Taking Away Guns From People For Having ONCE Been Prescribed ANTI-ANXIETY MEDICINE.

On behalf of the millions upon millions underneath millions, and growing, of people who have had the doctor write them an anti-anxiety prescription, for anxiety reactions, or a multitude of related conditions,

– we really aren’t a run-and-gun type crowd. Seriously, no worries. Much more likely to run to the bathroom than most, where we sort of “wait.”

PS: How do you spell attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, narcolepsy, and a handful of related conditions?

R i t a l i n.

This is how this will happen. Traffic violations, and prescriptions. Meaning, disqualifying minor conditions, and disqualifying minor crimes.

Axe on April 13, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Seriously? How is arresting and detaining the individual less of a violation of liberty than temporarily suspending his gun license pending a hearing?

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Seriously? You have never heard of a 72 hour hold on someone who is a danger to themselves or others? They are not put in jail they are put in a mental health facility then a determination can be made by a court after an evaluation. If someone is judged by “a Professional” to be such a risk to others that their guns have to be taken away emergently why would you leave them on the street where they can get access to a car and drive thru a school yard killing and maiming children? Oh wait, it is just about taking guns away from others.

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM

The Progressive War on America.

Battlefield: Every New York home that has a gun.

The Liberal/Marxist/Liberty hating Progressives love to project. So when Biden starts talking about “black helicopters” and trying that old Alinsky “ridicule” shinola on us…………you can figure……..he just saw the Janet Napolitano invoice for 10,000 new black helicopters, 20,000 new drones and 500,000,000 new rounds of ammo.

EVIL, EVIL, EVIL.

***and the republicans do nothing but cave over and over and over again.

HERE is a reminder of what limited government Conservatives are fighting against in D.C.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Politics/ht_pols_after_golf_mw_110618_wg.jpg

Don’t view the link unless you want to spit nails.

PappyD61 on April 13, 2013 at 12:57 PM

The NY SAFE Act requires “mental health professionals, in the exercise of reasonable professional judgment, to report if an individual they are treating is likely to engage in conduct that will cause serious harm to him- or herself or others.”

Does “prior restraint” no longer apply? Sure seems to be what all these laws are attempting to accomplish. Should be struck down inside of five minutes if we had a freedom loving constitution based judiciary. The answer is not to apply prior restraint but to make sure conditions are established such that people are able to respond appropriately when that one in 100 million whacko does go off the rails. .. I.e., eliminate unarmed victim zones. Worked for hundreds of years, now in the last forty, we think we are smarter than people before us?

AZfederalist on April 13, 2013 at 12:57 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/speaker-boehner-obama-deserves-some-credit-for-the-budget/2013/04/10/e7caa3d0-8d01-4758-ac54-02f6f5c8548e_video.html

House Speaker John Boehner says President Obama deserves some credit for “some incremental entitlement reforms” he has included in the budget, but urges the president not to hold those reforms hostage in return for more tax hikes.

http://news.yahoo.com/boehner-defends-obama-slowing-social-security-184111590.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — House Speaker John Boehner is rejecting a colleague’s criticism of a White House proposal to slow the growth of Social Security.

Boehner told reporters Thursday he disagrees with Rep. Greg Walden’s claim that the White House plan is an attack on America’s elderly. Walden, R-Ore., chairs the committee overseeing Republican House campaigns next year.

President Barack Obama has said he’s willing to slow the growth in Social Security benefits if Republicans agree to more tax revenues to help trim the deficit.

Boehner says that even more should be done to control entitlement spending.

Democrats say Walden’s remarks were cynical and hypocritical. The GOP generally portrays itself as an advocate of reining in the growth of Social Security and Medicare.

Where in the freaking **** is the CONSERVATIVE REBELLION AGAINST BOEHNER?

Why does ANYONE support the gop at this point?

PappyD61 on April 13, 2013 at 1:01 PM

No one should be seeking help from a “mental health professional” anyway. The psychiatry industry is one of the most corrupt in our society. They’re basically just drug dispensers for their own sick profit. If you’re having problems, that sucks, but think your way through it, even though it might take a while.

NEVER EVER EVER TRUST A PSYCHIATRIST. They are among the sleaziest people on the planet. In a just world, they would all be behind bars.

As for guns, the only real way to counter crazies is to be strapped and shoot them before they shoot you.

WhatSlushfund on April 13, 2013 at 1:02 PM

When the treating provider makes that determination, he/she reports it to the authorities, who then determine whether a license suspension or revocation should follow. If the license is suspended or revoked, the individual can request a hearing to get the guns back, which is what happened here. Aside from the obvious error in this case, which seems to have originated with the doctor, though the article does not make it clear, what is wrong with this procedure? Assuming we can all agree that dangerously mentally ill people should not have guns, how else can we prevent it?

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:30 PM

You are punishing the law-abiding without due process. Due process is only given AFTER there has been a notification. This is unconstitutional. You cannot suspend someone’s constitutional right without due process being given first.

If the mental health professional believes that a patient is a danger to himself or others, then that professional should have the patient committed on a 72-hour hold, which can be extended up to 30 days without a court order and then, with a court order, be extended in 90 day intervals.

If the mental health professional is so certain that the individual may ‘likely to engage in conduct that will cause serious harm to him- or herself or others,’ then he should take the person off of the streets. If the mental health professional has failed to do that, then one must question why the patient’s name has been put on a list and deprived of his constitutional rights without due process.

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM

‘I think that first and foremost, it stems from a flawed law that was passed so quickly without forethought on how something would be implemented. Certainly, I am disappointed on the fact that we were given information from State Police that this was an individual that we needed to act immediately on.

Previously we received correspondence from the State Police that a pistol permit holder in our County had a mental health condition that made them a potential harm to themselves or others, a provision in the NY SAFE Act that requires suspension of their pistol permit license.

When the State Police called to tell us they made a mistake and had the wrong person…it became clear that the State did not do their job here, and now we all look foolish.

Until the mental health provisions are fixed, these mistakes will continue to happen.’

- Erie County Clerk Chris Jacobs, Erie, New York

But, don’t worry. Something similar will not happen to you. The Feds and the states PINKY PROMISE!

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Worked for hundreds of years, now in the last forty, we think we are smarter than people before us?

AZfederalist on April 13, 2013 at 12:57 PM

They believe that each generation obsoletes the previous.

Explains a lot, too.

Axe on April 13, 2013 at 1:11 PM

But, don’t worry. Something similar will not happen to you. The Feds and the states PINKY PROMISE!

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Don’t worry they will put some clerks from the DMV on it to make sure the whole process runs smoothly and error free.

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 1:13 PM

This whole piece is alarmist rubbish.

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Play the liberal dupe all you want, but documented cases of crazy governmental overreach are many, and have just begun. Explain why some flunky in the Missouri state police has not once but twice provided this verminous administration with the entire state list of concealed carry permits?

Jazz is not exactly known for kook-fringe paranoia, and his recognition of reality here is welcome. It’s on…

Jaibones on April 13, 2013 at 1:14 PM

I used to get really angry when I read stories like this. Now I just laugh with disgust. Every day we see example after example of tyranny occurring right before us. And the American people do NOTHING! We are all cowards and deserve what we are getting. Our government is corrupt to the core.

There is no way out of this by voting, and most of you know it. The politicians are laughing at us. They don’t even hide their contempt anymore. Why should they? They know they can do whatever the hell they want, and we will do nothing more then bitch about it.

I love America, as envisioned by our founding fathers. But that country no longer exists, and it hasn’t for quite some time. I have nothing but contempt for what exists today.

I know I’ll get flamed for what I’ve wrote, but that’s okay. Some of you can continue to live under the illusion that voting and contacting your elected representatives actually makes a difference.

Fazman on April 13, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Jaibones on April 13, 2013 at 1:14 PM

I doubt we can expect any replies from cram it.

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM

It’s now or never, and I have a sinking feeling it’ll be “never”. Because people are going to remember how the lightly-armed resistance in Iraq and Afghanistan got CREAMED in a stand-up fight. And Americans aren’t Arab barbarians who’re happy to live in caves and die for Allah.

MelonCollie on April 13, 2013 at 11:42 AM

You are attempting to re-write history. The “resistance” in Afghanistan numbered in the few thousands not hundreds of thousands. Furthermore, a direct assault would be suicidal but it would be a real shame if government employees started showing up mysteriously deceased across this nation. How long you think those employees woul stay with the government? They also have wives and children’s safety to think about. For those that cower, you don’t deserve freedom or security.

trs on April 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM

starboardhelm on April 13, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Good one. I’m gonna remember that one for my gunphobic friends.

Cleombrotus on April 13, 2013 at 1:22 PM

50% of the population will have a mental disorder in their lifetime per the new DSM-5
via instapundit

Aviator on April 13, 2013 at 1:28 PM

What about the police officers,state troopers and FBI agents who have sought treatment or are currently being treated for depression? They know who they are. They have the records if they went through their conselling units. Are they disarming them?

Thicklugdonkey on April 13, 2013 at 1:30 PM

You are punishing the law-abiding without due process. Due process is only given AFTER there has been a notification. This is unconstitutional. You cannot suspend someone’s constitutional right without due process being given first.

If the mental health professional believes that a patient is a danger to himself or others, then that professional should have the patient committed on a 72-hour hold, which can be extended up to 30 days without a court order and then, with a court order, be extended in 90 day intervals.

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 1:07 PM

Prior due process is not unconstitutional in the face of a serious danger to self or others. That is why involuntarily detention for a psychiatric evaluation is permitted. Why do you readily accept involuntary detention of a person, but not his guns? Either way, the detention is brief and a court hearing is provided to challenge the detention.

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Sorry Jazz. This was a story two days ago, NY State is giving him back his license and his guns.

A bigger story is Obama gave up his radio address to a Newtown Mom pushing the “Do Something About Guns”(TM) meme. How do I get in touch with her and ask her how preventing me from having guns, or taking them from me, or her telling me how big a magazine I should be allowed to own, would have stopped that little moron Lanza from shooting up the school. I feel sorrow for her loss but her focus is misplaced. I wish she would focus on what could have been done to get that little moron Lanza committed to a mental institution, and more importantly, lay the blame directly at the feet of Ms. Lanza for letting him have access to her guns knowing he was having mental problems. My guns have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy’s car. Let’s face it, it’s only a matter of time before someone decides to pull of a Beslan event here in the US. There will be no one in a school with a gun to prevent it.

TulsAmerican on April 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM

this is going to get ugly and out of control. You all better decide which side you are on because there will be blood at some point here as the government ramps up disarming the citizens. Sooner or later the cops will go to the wrong house and someone will resist with force then the Media will say look another WACO crazy person. At that point don’t under any circumstance believe anything the media is saying about said person for at least 48 hours as the news comes out. I can see armed resistenace springing up in many parts of the country. this isn’t going to be a walk in the park and it will require a gut check. the elites both GOP and dems have already made the decisions and its full steam ahead. Those 2 buillion rounds of ammo weren’t bought for no reason by DHS.

unseen on April 13, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Number one question for those who favor “universal background checks” – how do you enforce them?
In other words, how will authorities know if an individual who possesses a firearm submitted to a background check?
If they can answer this question without needing to resort to a database, or a registry, then I am all ears.

dugan on April 13, 2013 at 12:14 PM

I can think of some half baked ideas, but nothing I can really be sure would work. Either you have a database that you can run someone through on the fly to check it they have had their second amendment rights removed, or every single gun has to be registered to an owner in a similar database that can also be checked remotely. Otherwise, background checks are just a speed bump for criminals and harassment of everyone else.

Count to 10 on April 13, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Wow. All the bellyaching and whining about the burdens of requiring ID to vote in this country. How the poor and the not-so-well-off were being discriminated against…oh, and the “people of color”.

Not a peep from the bellyachers about the burden of maintaining 2nd Amendment rights for these same individuals??? How is that?

It’s all okay to have those without ID voting on our rights in this country. Because someone’s rights might be violated, otherwise. Liberalism is a sickness.

ndanielson on April 13, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Oops – meant to say a lack of prior due process is not unconstitutional in the face of a serious danger to self or others.

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 1:36 PM

TulsAmerican on April 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM

since she is now lobbying senators in the capital she needs a lobbyist licence. Obama is making her do an illegal act to push his bill. ALL lobbyists in DC need a licence.

unseen on April 13, 2013 at 1:38 PM

time to bury the guns in the woods like they did in concord and lexington.

unseen on April 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM

NY State is giving him back his license and his guns.

TulsAmerican on April 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Is giving him back his license and guns? Just how long does that take? How much will it cost?

ndanielson on April 13, 2013 at 1:44 PM

time to bury the guns in the woods like they did in concord and lexington.

unseen on April 13, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Go all the way and report them stolen.

ndanielson on April 13, 2013 at 1:46 PM

When the treating provider makes that determination, he/she reports it to the authorities, who then determine whether a license suspension or revocation should follow.

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 12:30 PM

RWM has already schooled you on this issue, but I just want to add that the quickest way to get any law tossed into the trash bin by the courts is to violate due process.

NotCoach on April 13, 2013 at 1:47 PM

They’re Already Taking Away Guns From People For Having ONCE Been Prescribed ANTI-ANXIETY MEDICINE.

The Soviet Union and the East bloc countries were masters at using psychiatric diagnoses to consign their political opponents to oblivion. It once seemed like that sort of abuse could never happen in America, but my attitude has changed completely.

Honestly, given the Left’s hatred of conservatives and its willingness to accept the most horrific conduct in the service of an ideology (Gosnell is a great example), I don’t see anything fundamental that would restrain them from instituting a Khmer Rouge-style “paradise” if they ever gained the power to do it.

Cicero43 on April 13, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Oops – meant to say a lack of prior due process is not unconstitutional in the face of a serious danger to self or others.

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Where is exactly the emergency or serious danger that requires immediate action?

NotCoach on April 13, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Never mind that only a sparse few mentally ill people ever go on killing sprees. Never mind that the vast majority of murders throughout history are caused by organized crime, tyrannical governments and religious fanatics. I believe the death toll is in the hundreds of millions!

In the old days more extreme version of people like Toomey and Manchin used to sterilize, even kill, the mentally ill. While stripping away their 2nd amendment right isn’t nearly as bad, will it stop there or is just the beginning of a new eugenics movement? Perhaps not, the motivations of Toomey and Manchin seem to be different. They are only targeting the mentally ill to attack the 2nd amendment. Their attack on the mentally ill is just a convenient excuse to begin the process of stripping away peoples rights, supposedly to protect us from the mentally ill—when in fact it’s scumbags like Schumer, Obama, Munchin and Toomey that are the biggest threat to our life, liberty, property and our pursuit of happiness.

FloatingRock on April 13, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Oops – meant to say a lack of prior due process is not unconstitutional in the face of a serious liberal, trumped-up, hyped-up claim of danger to self or others.

cam2 on April 13, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Let’s be truthful here.

ndanielson on April 13, 2013 at 1:54 PM

NY State is giving him back his license and his guns.

TulsAmerican on April 13, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Is giving? Right now? Or will give? Or has said it would give? I bet he never sees those guns again, is reimbursed a small fraction of what they are worth and is denied a permit next time around. It’s just how petty tyrant government agencies work, especially when they have the governor on their side.

ROCnPhilly on April 13, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Go all the way and report them stolen.

ndanielson on April 13, 2013 at 1:46 PM

good idea

unseen on April 13, 2013 at 2:00 PM

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