“It jumped, the arm”; Update: Media score – Rutgers 41, Gosnell 0

posted at 10:41 am on April 10, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Allahpundit posted yesterday on the trial of Kermit Gosnell and the testimony of the other monsters who worked in his charnel house — excuse me, family-planning clinic.  With Gosnell on trial for eight counts of murder thanks to the deliberate execution of newborns that managed to survive the savagery of Gosnell’s late-term abortions, the trial yesterday included another horrific tidbit, and an excuse that sounds very, very familiar:

A second Delaware woman, who worked at Dr. Kermit Gosnell’s West Philadelphia abortion clinic, testified today that it was “standard procedure” to snip the necks of any babies that were delivered by patients before the abortion due to labor-inducing drugs.

And Lynda Williams, 44, of Wilmington, said Gosnell taught her how to flip the body of the baby over and snip its neck with a pair of scissors to ensure “fetal demise.”

Williams also testified that she followed Gosnell’s orders one time, when Gosnell was away either running, swimming or working at a clinic in Delaware, and took a baby that was delivered in a toilet and snipped its neck.

“It jumped, the arm,” she said, showing the jury by raising her arm.

Williams told investigators she only snipped a neck the one time, “because it gave me the creeps.”

So why did she agree to do it at all?

“I only do what I’m told to do,” she told the jury. “What I was told to do was snip their neck… I never knew it was murder.”

I’m sorry, but that excuse wasn’t good enough at Nuremberg for people in a military organization.  It’s certainly not good enough for people taking jobs in abortion mills.  What exactly did she think fetal demise meant? For that matter, what exactly did she think Gosnell was doing in all of these abortions?

Oh, right — Gosnell told her the babies were already dead:

Williams said she asked Gosnell about the baby that moved, and said Gosnell told her it was just an “involuntary response” and a “last breath” because it was “already dead” due to drugs that had been administered earlier.

So why bother to stab the babies in the neck to “ensure fetal demise”? After Williams got creeped out, did she report the issue to authorities, who might have been interested in investigating this practice?  Apparently not; she still worked for Gosnell at the time one of his patients died allegedly through malicious neglect, which is why she was also arrested.

While we’re asking questions, let’s ask again why the crime-obsessed media hasn’t taken an interest in this case.  It has nearly everything that the media usually wants — horrific tales, serial killings, grotesque deliberation, even a villain who liked to make and keep trophies of his victims.  We even have living victims willing to go on camera to talk about their experiences with Gosnell. So why has no national media outlet taken advantage of this target-rich environment?

Let’s go back to the grand-jury report on Gosnell, which delivered a powerful indictment against the government health agencies that were supposed to protect women from butchers like Gosnell:

We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers. Even nail salons in Pennsylvania are monitored more closely for client safety.

The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed.

Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce. Most appalling of all, the Department of Health’s neglect of abortion patients’ safety and of Pennsylvania laws is clearly not inadvertent: It is by design. …

State health officials knew that Gosnell and his clinic were offering unacceptable medical care to women and girls, yet DOH failed to take any action to stop the atrocities documented by this Grand Jury. These officials were far more protective of themselves when they testified before the Grand Jury. Even DOH lawyers, including the chief counsel, brought private attorneys with them – presumably at government expense.

The national media is just as complicit as these government agencies in keeping the Gosnell story under wraps.  They want to bury it because of what it says about abortionists, abortion itself, and the cheapening of human life.  They don’t want to find out how many Gosnells are out there butchering women to this day, but it’s more than that. To hear stories of expedited “fetal demise” is to question why we suck babies out of wombs in the first place. Clearly, that’s a conversation the national media doesn’t want.  They want us to talk about only what they tell us to talk about, and if that means turning a blind eye to the women and babies victimized by this industry, well, so be it.

Update: LifeNews reports MRC’s Matthew Philbin’s fascinating analysis of media priorities over the last week:

The Rutgers basketball story continues to transfix the media, and why shouldn’t it? Mike Rice, the disgraced former Rutgers basketball coach allegedly killed a woman and at least seven viable, born-alive babies “by plunging scissors into their spinal cords” in his filthy, macabre “house of horrors” abortion clinic.

Oh wait, my mistake.

Rice was fired last week from Rutgers over video of him shoving, kicking and yelling at his players, throwing basketballs at them and – most damning – using “homophobic slurs.” That’s made Rice the most notorious villain in America. And in one week it earned him 36 network news stories clocking in at 41 minutes, 26 seconds of air time on ABC, CBS and NBC.

Now, had Rice been accused of killing a woman and eight babies, he’d be enjoying the same anonymity as Kermit Gosnell– provided the killings were carried out in an abortion clinic. Gosnell is the West Philadelphia abortionist who ran an unimaginable charnel house of a “clinic,” for 30 years. Witnesses testified that he may have murdered over 100 babies outside the womb. Gosnell’s trial, underway for weeks, has featured wrenching testimony and horrific details. And it has received exactly zero seconds of airtime on the broadcast networks.

Incredible — which describes the mainstream media pretty well.

Update: This is a few months old, but the 3801 Lancaster Project made this documentary of the case that’s worth a watch.  There may be more coming, too.

Caution: Some disturbing images included, as you may well imagine.


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As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Does that basic persecution complex make you sleep easier at night?

In my experience blatant anti-black racism is almost entirely a democrat problem. A conservative my entire life, and the only people I’ve known who throw out racist jokes, or use the N word, are democrats. Your kind of leftist, has been throwing that accusation against us for so long, we move Heaven and Earth to be fair as much as possible.

But the accusations just keep doubling, especially since the new liberal dictionary defines as “racism” any opposition to the president with the most radical left wing ideology in history.

Why is it so damn hard for you to see our beef is with democrat hard left ideology?

No, instead you whine about racism, as if a conservative in Ohio voting for Romney, made some crack addled gang banger in Chi Town shoot a child. I have mixed race nieces, children are children, and the lack of democrat action to clean up the gangs from urban areas is a damned disgrace to the people who live there.

No, instead of blaming the people who control your neighborhood, you come here and imply we are to blame.

on what planet, does that make sense?

If you ever broke away and showed the slightest independence, and actually voted against the establishment democrats.. voted for the GOP blacks in your communities, you might have a wedge to force both parties to address your problems.

But every GOP outreach get’s snarled at by people like you as a token gesture, with another round robin of racism accusations..

and the democrats, fat dumb and racistly happy, take you for a chump, and ignore you.. why should they care?.. you vote for them, no matter how much they fail you..

and nothing changes..

because you mindlessly vote D..

The GOP would be scrambling to get your votes, if you ever showed any inclination towards moderation. But you instead stick to the policies which took black families from the strongest in America, to an unwed birth rate of 70%..

Try thinking outside your victim box, and face up to the self imposed damage that single party loyalty has gotten you.

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Excuse me, but I don’t need you or anybody else to tell me what “most people” in my country think about a subject.

So you don’t care what most people think or you just don’t believe it?

I’ve been watching all of this for 40 years. The abortionists and their leftist allies know they’re losing the battle. That’s why they are covering this up.
JannyMae on April 10, 2013 at 2:36 PM

They do? Seems to me they’re winning and they know it.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 2:44 PM

PastorJon on April 10, 2013 at 2:34 PM

libwhoshouldnotbefree is the biggest racist on HA.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 2:48 PM

Actually, we’re inherently homo sapien. Evolution provides no promise of perfection.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Who said anything about ‘evolution’?

I was thinking more along the lines of Homo Perfectus (Nazi Germany) and Homo Sovieticus (the Soviet Union and its satellites). Both believed that man was capable of being perfected, as did eugenicists. Nazis and eugenicists believed that man could be perfected through proper breeding, although Nazis also believed that they could be perfected through government. The Soviets believed that man could be perfected through the government.

We’ve seen it in the Pietism Movement that began after the Civil War in this country and later became the Progressive Movement of the late 19th century through the 1920s.

We’ve seen it argued by the founders of ‘Utopian Communities’ in America like Robert Owen (New Harmony), John Humphrey Noyes (Oneida Community), and George and Sophia Ripley (Brook Farm).

Then, we can also look at some past comments made by President Obama, to wit:

‘I AM CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN CREATE A KINGDOM RIGHT HERE ON EARTH.’

- Senator Barack Obama, 8 October 2007

And, a bunch of his made on collective salvation.

I have long echoed the sentiments of Hoelderlin and Goldwater:

“What has always made the state a hell on earth has been precisely that man has tried to make it his heaven.”

- Friedrich Hoelderlin

“Now those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth, and let me remind you they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyranny.”

- Senator Barry Goldwater, (R-AZ)

Whenever men set out to create “Heaven on Earth” or a “Kingdom on Earth,” they invariably end up creating hell instead.

These people always believe that man is perfectable. If they were to admit that man could not be perfected, then there would be no manner in which to create ‘Heaven on Earth.’

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 2:49 PM

steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Speaking of Margaret Sanger. If only Planned Parenthood could really carry out their mission to fruition, we wouldn’t have to worry about anti-black racism ever again!

You are so obsessed with conjuring “racism” and “oppression” around every corner that you can’t see it when it is directly in front of you.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 2:50 PM

I’ve been watching all of this for 40 years. The abortionists and their leftist allies know they’re losing the battle. That’s why they are covering this up.
JannyMae on April 10, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Janny Mae is right. Jill Stanek has been reporting over the last year on the increasing demoralization amongst the abortionists as evidenced during their meetings in their words and tenor.

INC on April 10, 2013 at 2:50 PM

So a 5 year old who sorrowfully cries over a dead bird in the yard got that from reading the Bible his atheist parents don’t own? The Assyrian child born in the 25t century BC crying in sorrow over a dead bird in his yard, what guided his grief?

Bishop on April 10, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Well, first, if you are born into a Christian society you don’t have to read the Bible to learn the Christian way. Your society is soaked with it.

I actually wanted to mention that children are different. They are naturally capable of great compassion, but cruelty as well.

The older we get, the more we become shaped by society.

The other revolutionary, infuriating thing Christ said was, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of God belongs to those who are like these children.”

Since ancient societies had so little regard for children, this was another insult to them.

Gelsomina on April 10, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Yes, we know, you’re a one-note grievance puppet.

No, he has two – his homosexuality is the 2nd one.

But step back from your habitual crusade for one ****ing second and actually use your brain for once. You really think this would be a big-time story if it were happening in a white neighborhood?

This isn’t a racial issue, it’s a political one. The media, which is largely pro-choice, has a vested interest in burying this story as much as possible.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 10, 2013 at 2:18 PM

The derelict racist is not going to accept logic and reality, never. He loots off a system which he hates, but which he feeds on. He is a black homosexual professor, don’t you know. This entitles him to right, no matter what the topic.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 2:52 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

The only racists in America are White Liberals and the majority of Blacks…

mnjg on April 10, 2013 at 2:52 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so…

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

‘Institutional racism!’ A ‘get out of jail’ excuse card to be thrown by people like you whenever you guys make a mistake.

‘I totally face-palmed on the electoral and parlimentary systems on the UK, thereby proving that I am a complete arse, but it wasn’t my fault, you see. Anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture! My ignorance is SOLELY due to the fact that white people – all white people, including white Progressives – are racist!’

- Liveenslavedthendie

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM

This thread is about the execution of children, of all races, genders.

May those who derailed the thread suffocate in your idiocies and in your infant-executing ideals in this century. You are all worse than most animals.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 2:54 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so…

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

May history record that this idiot professor typed this in the year 2013. Look around for all who are in charge, fools of the world.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 2:55 PM

Abortion is Evil… The evil abortionists call the fetus a “tissue” when they want to abort it but a “baby” when they want to keep it…

mnjg on April 10, 2013 at 2:56 PM

I don’t have time to read all the comments, so please excuse me.

These people are no different than the Nazi’s. Anyone that condones or votes for what these people are doing is as guilty as they are of murder.

johnny reb on April 10, 2013 at 2:56 PM

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Perfect compared to what?
Flawless compared to what?

Sure various ideologies have striven to find the formula for perfect people and societies. People also searched for Eldorado. The results end up being the same in both cases.

The only thing we know for sure about the human condition is that we are big-brained primates. That’s why I referenced evolution. Nature doesn’t care about perfection.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Well, first, if you are born into a Christian society you don’t have to read the Bible to learn the Christian way. Your society is soaked with it.

Gelsomina on April 10, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Our “society” seems less Christian every day.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 3:01 PM

There’s been a historic devaluing of black lives in this nation, which continues today. So, of course, a man murdering black children in a devalued community isn’t going to garner tons of media attention. Nor, I might add, will conservative’s selective interest in West Philly be read as anything but single issue.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Hey libbie! Check out the thread about the Planned Parenthood clinic being shut down because of botched abortions.

Guess what? This has nothing to do with West Philly, and conservatives are interested!

So what’s the issue here if it isn’t race?

itsspideyman on April 10, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Dark satire from The Onion, Thousands Of Eggs Pushed Out Of Nests After Birds Legalize Abortion.

Can you imagine what the Left would do if we were talking about birds instead of than children?

Following the Bird Supreme Court’s decisive 7-2 ruling to overturn the avian world’s longstanding anti-abortion law, millions of birds across the nation were granted reproductive rights Thursday, prompting thousands to forego parenthood by fatally pushing eggs from their nests.

INC on April 10, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Well, first, if you are born into a Christian society you don’t have to read the Bible to learn the Christian way. Your society is soaked with it.

Gelsomina on April 10, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Go back to Austria…oh, wait!

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Well, first, if you are born into a Christian society you don’t have to read the Bible to learn the Christian way. Your society is soaked with it.

Yeah. Just the other day a boy who was disobedient to his parents was lead to the edge of town and stoned to death by the community.

They also discovered and killed a couple of witches.

Biblical values…“God’ll getcha for that!”

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM

*** snort ***

UltimateBob on April 10, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Nature doesn’t care about perfection.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Sure it does, if it gave us Hendrix.

Bishop on April 10, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Dr. Mengele would be proud.

johnny reb on April 10, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 2:49 PM

That was an excellent post… Unfortunately the slave of the state chumpthreads is too stupid to understand of what you told him… At the end anything that goes against human nature such as supremacy through the race (Nazism) or the supremacy through collectivism (Communism) is going to fail but not before destroying the lives of millions…

mnjg on April 10, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Well, first, if you are born into a Christian society you don’t have to read the Bible to learn the Christian way. Your society is soaked with it.

My all-time biggest bragging point:
I saw Jimi Hendrix live in 1968!

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Perfect compared to what?
Flawless compared to what?

Sure various ideologies have striven to find the formula for perfect people and societies. People also searched for Eldorado. The results end up being the same in both cases.

The only thing we know for sure about the human condition is that we are big-brained primates. That’s why I referenced evolution. Nature doesn’t care about perfection.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Hey, don’t look at me! I’ve never bought into those idiotic notions.

We aren’t talking about ‘evolution’ or whether nature cares about ‘perfection.’

I am referring to specific cases where mortals have argued that man could be perfected, almost always through the use of state power.

Do you think that Jewish blood is different from that of others? I don’t, but Hitler did and it further doesn’t matter what the guide, the measurement, or the comparison was. He and his followers believed it and they had the power of the government to enforce or ‘make’ it happen.

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

There’s been a historic devaluing of black lives in this nation, which continues today.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 1:40 PM

The majority of that devaluing over the past 60 years has been perpetrated by the political Party you belong to.

The fact that you continue to totally ignore even the possibility of that being true is your problem, not ours.

Del Dolemonte on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Is there any other type of racism in your world other than anti-black racism?

Del Dolemonte on April 10, 2013 at 3:15 PM

My all-time biggest bragging point:
I saw Jimi Hendrix live in 1968!

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Sure it does, if it gave us Hendrix.

Bishop on April 10, 2013 at 3:08 PM

I meant to reply to the above comment.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:16 PM

They do? Seems to me they’re winning and they know it.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 2:44 PM

No, they aren’t which is why they double down on the omissions and propaganda efforts. A couple of polls tell us the Y gen voters are turning pro-life..

in what pro-death universe is that a win.

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 3:16 PM

My all-time biggest bragging point:
I saw Jimi Hendrix live in 1968!

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

When he opened for The Monkees, right?

Del Dolemonte on April 10, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Has it ever occurred to those on the right that no one cares about Gosnell’s murders because “no one” has cared about whether people live or die in West Philadelphia

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Put Obama on top of that list as the one who cares least that infanticide is taking place in West Philly. The media doesn’t want to keep drawing attention to the fact that there is not one single solitary abortion restriction that Obama supports. The White House would of course deny that the administration believes in abortion on demand, but where is the proof?
Better to bury this story than to actually have the president face some tough questions…and look like a monster in the process.

lynncgb on April 10, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Hey, don’t look at me! I’ve never bought into those idiotic notions.

We aren’t talking about ‘evolution’ or whether nature cares about ‘perfection.’

I am referring to specific cases where mortals have argued that man could be perfected, almost always through the use of state power.

Do you think that Jewish blood is different from that of others? I don’t, but Hitler did and it further doesn’t matter what the guide, the measurement, or the comparison was. He and his followers believed it and they had the power of the government to enforce or ‘make’ it happen.

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Contra mnjg, I know what you were talking about. My point is that such notions of human perfection or “superman” are ideological constructs that have no more substance in reality than the Fountain of Youth.

Of course the guide, the measurement or comparison matters regarding claims of racial superiority such as Hitler (and far too many Americans) tried to establish. It is by analysing those claims that they are held up for the frauds that they are. Likewise, seeking the perfect human society is just another bogus pretext upon which to get rid of those “others” who are keeping the superior people from reaching perfection.

Btw, people use many excuses to wield state power. Many in this country would love the bend the power of the state to make childbirth compulsory in the name of “pro-life”. And they are deeply convinced that they are on the side of moral superiority.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:29 PM

No, they aren’t which is why they double down on the omissions and propaganda efforts. A couple of polls tell us the Y gen voters are turning pro-life..
in what pro-death universe is that a win.
mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 3:16 PM

The one where a pro-abortion man is elected and reelected. A man who voted against laws to protect babies and women from people like Gosnell. And in both elections he was highly favored by young voters. Also favored by “Catholics”.

And the worst part of all is the Dems made this a feature of Our President. His entire reelection campaign was based around these “social issues”. While Romney stupidly talked about “jobs” as if anyone cares.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 3:33 PM

My all-time biggest bragging point:
I saw Jimi Hendrix live in 1968!

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Man, are you old!

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 3:33 PM

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:29 PM

I agree.

**takes temperature**

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 3:34 PM

I agree.

**takes temperature**

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Good Lord!

I have to go lay down…

(Hey, I’m 61. Not that old!)

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Btw, people use many excuses to wield state power. Many in this country would love the bend the power of the state to make childbirth compulsory in the name of “pro-life”. And they are deeply convinced that they are on the side of moral superiority.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:29 PM

We are, because in no way, is banning infanticide making “childbirth compulsory”.. unless you remove personal responsibility, contraceptives and the common sense God gave a goat.

“rape and incest”.. far less than 1 percent of abortions are for that reason, and you know it. The vast majority are,.. tee hee, I forgot to take the pill… maybe in your book that gives people the right to murder an infant, but not in the world we live in.

Maybe instead of taking the sleasy way out, they should be teaching kids things like, if you don’t want to get pregnant, don’t, use contraceptives, or wait,.. you won’t die, your parent’s and grand parent’s didn’t. It isn’t rocket science, and was the law in most states that abortion was murder..till the SCOTUS decided babies weren’t human till the last trimester.

and polling says, we are winning the youth on this, they are very queasy when their parents talk of in the past, considering wether to abort them or not, as if they had no stake in that pre-birth decision.

My wife and her sisters, all democrats, are all pro-life, so it’s not even an R vs. D argument, just moral vs. immoral.

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM

There’s been a historic devaluing of black livesall life in this nation, which continues today.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 1:40 PM

FIFY

itsspideyman on April 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM

My all-time biggest bragging point:
I saw Jimi Hendrix live in 1968!

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 3:11 PM

I was 9,.. I can remember HR Puffnstuff…

does that count?

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 3:46 PM

And polling says, we are winning the youth on this, they are very queasy when their parents talk of in the past, considering wether to abort them or not, as if they had no stake in that pre-birth decision.

My wife and her sisters, all democrats, are all pro-life, so it’s not even an R vs. D argument, just moral vs. immoral.

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 3:43 PM

You keep saying that as if it’s true. The “youths” are voting for abortion (by supporting Dems exclusively) in larger numbers than ever.

Did your wife and her sisters vote for Obama? And you still call them “pro-life”? LOL

Or does “pro-life” now mean that one hasn’t actually personally killed a baby?

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 3:49 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Actually, many folks think Black anti-white racism is rampant, with victimhood going back two generations is the excuse. My family sent 6 men to the Union’s regiments, not all came back, so what is my bill for slavery?.. American’s are sick of the whining over something done a century and a half ago, by people we never knew.

I was 8 when Doctor King was killed, the civil rights era was the time when the GOP stood with him, and it got us nothing but recriminations, and bald faced lies about a mythical mass exodus of racists from the democrats, to the GOP..

Because when you want to flee the party you’re in for the civil rights bill, you’d of course run to the party which supported it in far greater numbers..

You leftists have no idea what the true history of America is, you’ve rewritten it too many times to remember the real story.

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 4:11 PM

Did your wife and her sisters vote for Obama? And you still call them “pro-life”? LOL

Or does “pro-life” now mean that one hasn’t actually personally killed a baby?

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 3:49 PM

No, they didn’t.. my wife voted for Mitt, the other two stayed home.

and the polls exist, I googled it, so can you.

That the youth vote was Obama’s is largely the media’s refusal to cover anything the low info voter didn’t know… All they heard was “war on women”.. and “ban contraceptives”, both outright lies..

I doubt the average 20 year old voter even knew Obama voted for infanticide.

Did you see it reported?.. did anyone?

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 4:20 PM

I am so indescribably angry than in a post-Newtown America, someone can slaughter children and no one in the media breathes a friggin WORD about it.

Washington Nearsider on April 10, 2013 at 4:22 PM

No, they didn’t.. my wife voted for Mitt, the other two stayed home.
and the polls exist, I googled it, so can you.
That the youth vote was Obama’s is largely the media’s refusal to cover anything the low info voter didn’t know… All they heard was “war on women”.. and “ban contraceptives”, both outright lies..
I doubt the average 20 year old voter even knew Obama voted for infanticide.
Did you see it reported?.. did anyone?
mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Your wife voted for Romney and she still calls herself a democrat? That’s silly.

And again we’re blaming the MSM for the youth vote…. Who exactly do you think is aborting their own babies? Elderly people?

Polls can say whatever they want, the poll that matters is in November and it is all dem all the time. Especially regarding abortion.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 4:30 PM

Real racist – Off topic

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Go back to Austria…oh, wait!

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Yes, we are more Catholic than the pope ;-)

Gelsomina on April 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM

Your wife voted for Romney and she still calls herself a democrat? That’s silly.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 4:30 PM

From the Progressive Democrat, Buzz Bissinger:

‘I’m A Liberal And I’m Voting for Mitt Romney’

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM

From the Progressive Democrat, Buzz Bissinger:

‘I’m A Liberal And I’m Voting for Mitt Romney’

Resist We Much on April 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM

Okay, I read the whole thing. It’s silly too.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 5:00 PM

The derelict racist is not going to accept logic and reality, never. He loots off a system which he hates, but which he feeds on. He is a black homosexual professor, don’t you know. This entitles him to right, no matter what the topic.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2013 at 2:52 PM

A black affirmative-action homosexual professor. I suspect the PhD is in race-grievance mongering.

slickwillie2001 on April 10, 2013 at 5:05 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Actually, many folks think Black anti-white racism is rampant

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 4:11 PM

The Good Perfesser here, along with his Democrat National News Media, cannot accept that there are in fact examples of rampant racism against anyone other than blacks. Hence they magically made George Zimmerman into a “White Hispanic.”

Likewise, none of them can admit the realities of blacks being racists towards whites, blacks being racist towards Hispanics, or blacks being racist towards Asians.

And they can’t admit that there could be racism between Asians and Hispanics and vice-versa (see “California”) and won’t even admit that there is racism against whites by native Hawaiians in the state O’bama claims to have been born in.

Their simple solution? Never report those stories. Dr. Goebbels would be proud of them all.

Del Dolemonte on April 10, 2013 at 5:08 PM

While we’re asking questions, let’s ask again why the crime-obsessed media hasn’t taken an interest in this case. It has nearly everything that the media usually wants — horrific tales, serial killings, grotesque deliberation, even a villain who liked to make and keep trophies of his victims. We even have living victims willing to go on camera to talk about their experiences with Gosnell. So why has no national media outlet taken advantage of this target-rich environment?
——————————-

Because they push a narrative just like this site does. Why act suprised? The same way your site wont post anything that goes against the narrative that you all try to create, other types of media has their narrative as well.

Your arguement is one that a common citizen could make but not a member of any media left or right should make. It just seems hypocritical.

Politricks on April 10, 2013 at 6:25 PM

mark81150 on April 10, 2013 at 12:54 PM

That’s what I was trying to get across before Happy slunk off into the murk, that people were perfectly capable of abhorring certain practices before Christianity became mainstream. If those ancient peoples could do so why can’t a modern person also do so; why MUST there be a Christian influence in a person’s conclusions?

Bishop on April 10, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Logically, you’re right. You can intuit many moral principles without the teachings of Christianity.

In fact, the Bible suggests this when it says, in Romans 2:14, “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:”

That is, the Bible does teach there is a built-in moral guide inside us, a sense of right and wrong. We see it when liberals try to invent their own morality of Tolerance Above All, and Loving the Environment, and all kinds of things that suddenly became “moral” decisions as the traditional standards of morality were abandoned by them.

This is where the concept of natural law comes from, Cicero being an oft-cited example.

But practically, you really have to ask yourself this question:

If we have an inbuilt moral guide, an instinct that certain things are just wrong, and if the belief that killing babies is a good example of that inner moral code is true ….

…. then why exactly did so many pagan civilizations allow infanticide?

Something to think about.

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 6:40 PM

We discovered that Pennsylvania’s Department of Health has deliberately chosen not to enforce laws that should afford patients at abortion clinics the same safeguards and assurances of quality health care as patients of other medical service providers.

Unless you are the baby being aborted.

JellyToast on April 10, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Are you just trolling or reinforcing the sheltered fundamentalist stereotype? Honestly can’t tell.

lester on April 10, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Ahhhh. Such irony.

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 6:56 PM

if the belief that killing babies [is wrong] is a good example of that inner moral code is true ….

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 6:40 PM

FIFM

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 7:06 PM

“Love thy neighbor as thyself” was regarded as scandalous, not human, infuriating, unnatural.

Today we don’t understand any more what a revolution that was.

Read the Old Testament. It teaches you to be good to others, but it doesn’t urge you to love them. Insofar the Old Testament is more “human” than the New Testament.

Gelsomina on April 10, 2013 at 2:00 PM

I have to disagree on this one. In the New Testament, when asked which was the greatest commandment of all, Jesus quoted two Old Testament verses: Deuteronmy 6: 1 “Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all they heart,” and Lev 19:18 “Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”

That’s right: “Love your neighbor” comes directly from the “harsh” Old Testament. More than that, it comes from the same book of the Old Testament that lays out many of the most-criticized Old Testament laws. The very book, in fact, from which the term “levitical laws” comes from.

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 7:20 PM

The very book, in fact, from which the term “levitical laws” comes from.

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 7:20 PM

Hmmm. Hot Air used to tell me sometimes, “You’re posting too fast.” Maybe I should listen.

There Goes The Neighborhood on April 10, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Thanks for posting that video Ed….first time I’ve seen that..The silence by pro abortion people on this topic is very telling..they are so pro death that they can’t even reject this kind of evil

sadsushi on April 10, 2013 at 8:32 PM

They do? Seems to me they’re winning and they know it.

happytobehere on April 10, 2013 at 2:44 PM

Numerous states have passed several laws in the last few years, restricting abortions. These are two of the most recent:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-04/alabama-joins-states-passing-bills-regulating-abortion-clinics.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-north-dakota-abortion-restrictions-20130326,0,6982164.story

There are many more, laws in Texas and Arizona, defunding Planned Death-hood. Planned Parenthood is PANICKING!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/25/planned-parenthood-tries-to-freshen-up-a-label/?page=all

A recent Time magazine cover article titled, “What Choice?” chronicled how abortion advocates have been losing significant ground, especially at the state level, on this issue. Even more revealing than author Kate Pickert’s ultimate pronouncement were her observations at abortion clinics. The stories are heartbreaking.

Even TIME Magazine acknowledges that pro-life movement is making progress, and the pro-death crowd is “losing ground.”

You sit there and pretend that your pre-conceived ideas are true, and I’ll get the actual facts, while I follow the pro-life movement closely. Meanwhile, you really should stop pretending that you know what every American thinks and believes.

JannyMae on April 10, 2013 at 8:51 PM

Lynn, I saw this comment on the old headline thread that had rolled over. I didn’t think you’d see the response do I’ll post a reply here if you’re still around.

Many ? I don’t think so. Many of us that remain pro-choice do not, I repeat, do not support unrestricted, unregulated, cowboy abortions like Gosnell practiced.

I’m sorry if you believe that by being pro-abortion yourself, that I meant everyone who approves of the practice did not find Dr. Gosnell particularly offensive in his practice. But there are many. I have had similar discussions about no-limits abortion in one manner or the other with mythicknight, pablo honey, thuga, Armin Tamzarian, MJbrutus and really a host of others who simply believe the end justifies the means. If you prefer to assign a different categorization of “many” to soothe your soul, that’s fine. Do as your heart tells you. After the discussions I’ve had on Hot Air over the years, many is what occurs to me as the proper way to quantify my comment.

“Pennsylvania law prohibits late-term abortions after 24 weeks and that is why Gosnell is being charged with murder. The grand jury report reveals that Gosnell and his wife performed extremely late-term abortions on Sundays, so they could be by themselves, away from staff, and could then take the patients’ files home to be destroyed. Pennsylvania law could not stop this so- called “doctor”.
He is a ghoul in the first degree.

lynncgb on April 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM”

Glad you feel that way, but none of that much matters considering. Gosnell was just doing what some want the end results of expanding the limits of abortion to be. And I think they’ll get there.

Even coming from a pretty liberal family myself, abortion was never something my family particularly condoned. Becoming more conservative after joining the military I became very anti-abortion, then outspoken and felt more passionate the more I learned about the practice. It really became my deepest conservative conviction as I moved in that direction. In that time, I was mentored by a Chaplain I Bible studied under. The man should have written a book. Nearly thirty years ago, I don’t want to say he predicted, but he calculated the results and he couldn’t have been more accurate. He called it all. He said there would be a desensitization of the practice by a well organized face with a responsible sounding title. “Planned Parenthood”. He said the line in the sand would continually be redrawn and eventually moved past removing a tissue mass until we were euthanizing live but unwanted babies. He said “sometime down the road”, people would even be accepting of that. And he said it would all be sold as you’re for it or anti-woman.

Who would have thought?

hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Sorry …

“Pennsylvania law prohibits late-term abortions after 24 weeks and that is why Gosnell is being charged with murder. The grand jury report reveals that Gosnell and his wife performed extremely late-term abortions on Sundays, so they could be by themselves, away from staff, and could then take the patients’ files home to be destroyed. Pennsylvania law could not stop this so- called “doctor”.
He is a ghoul in the first degree.

lynncgb on April 10, 2013 at 10:24 AM”

Glad you feel that way, but none of that much matters considering. Gosnell was just doing what some want the end results of expanding the limits of abortion to be. And I think they’ll get there.

Even coming from a pretty liberal family myself, abortion was never something my family particularly condoned. Becoming more conservative after joining the military I became very anti-abortion, then outspoken and felt more passionate the more I learned about the practice. It really became my deepest conservative conviction as I moved in that direction. In that time, I was mentored by a Chaplain I Bible studied under. The man should have written a book. Nearly thirty years ago, I don’t want to say he predicted, but he calculated the results and he couldn’t have been more accurate. He called it all. He said there would be a desensitization of the practice by a well organized face with a responsible sounding title. “Planned Parenthood”. He said the line in the sand would continually be redrawn and eventually moved past removing a tissue mass until we were euthanizing live but unwanted babies. He said “sometime down the road”, people would even be accepting of that. And he said it would all be sold as you’re for it or anti-woman.

Who would have thought?

hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 9:11 PM

hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 9:14 PM

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

You are such a pathetic narcissistic cartoon. As everyone on this board know? My God.

hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Even TIME Magazine acknowledges that pro-life movement is making progress, and the pro-death crowd is “losing ground.”

You sit there and pretend that your pre-conceived ideas are true, and I’ll get the actual facts, while I follow the pro-life movement closely. Meanwhile, you really should stop pretending that you know what every American thinks and believes.

JannyMae on April 10, 2013 at 8:51 PM

They’re losing ground because no matter how they couch it as a civil-rights issue, it is by its nature a nightmarish and profane act.

Network news are avoiding this story like the plague, because they fully understand its horror and what would be the outcry if it received greater attention.

If pro-abortionists would take their victory for first-trimester acts there may be an unholy truce. But the fact that to believe in abortion means to support balls-to-the-walls death to infants while they’re struggling for life leaves no room for compromise. The thought of an infant, a human life struggling for existence while an adult plays god and ends it is offensive, vulgar and inhuman.

In state houses where push-back has a chance, people are pushing back. They’ve had enough.

Go ahead, pro-abortion, keep pushing. Because pro-life will push back.

itsspideyman on April 10, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Gosnell was just doing what some want the end results of expanding the limits of abortion to be. And I think they’ll get there.
hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 9:11 PM

This is where I hold out hope. Every time I see a poll on the issue, it reinforces my belief that we can still rein in reproductive “rights”. Yes, Gosnell was doing what the pro-choice absolutists want, but they are not the majority of those that label themselves as being pro-choice. Among those that are in favor of abortion remaining legal, support for second and third trimester abortions always drops off dramatically. Heck, even in deep blue NY, residents oppose the bill New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is promoting that would expand abortion rights and take pro-life laws off the books.
The voting public, I honestly believe, would be in favor of setting limits on “choice” and I would fight right beside you for this. And then with time, who knows? We keep educating…and society may one day finally be able to recognize abortion for the atrocity it is.

lynncgb on April 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

lynncgb on April 10, 2013 at 11:05 PM

Respectfully, you’ll lose. You can’t support part of a progressive issue like abortion and give up along the way because you concede they’ve overstepped their bounds by standards you maintain. You become part of the avalanche.

hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 11:29 PM

you’ll lose

I hope not…we keep pulling. Eight states now require women seeking abortion to have ultrasounds, three states enacted laws that require abortion providers to have admitting privileges at a local hospital, Louisiana banned abortions after 20 weeks, Utah tripled its mandatory waiting period to 72 hours, a Montana ballot initiative mandated parent notification for abortions on minors under age 16. Arkansas approved a bill to ban abortions after 12 weeks of pregnancy, the most restrictive such law in the country. Last year, 19 states enacted a total of 43 provisions limiting access to abortion. States are fighting back against the notion of unfettered access to abortion and some of the states have already shored up war chests to fund the legal challenges and battles. Bit by bit we chip away at this.

lynncgb on April 11, 2013 at 12:17 AM

I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Just anti-black, you see. Not anti-asian, anti-brown etc. No, the most important question in life is whether we are being sufficiently anti-anti-black racism, because the grievances of that subgroup are the most important.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

alwaysfiredup on April 11, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

alwaysfiredup on April 11, 2013 at 10:15 AM

I’m not sure he does here. He doesn’t see himself as a Narcissist.

As everyone on this board knows, I believe anti-black racism is endemic to American politics and culture so, of course, I think white liberals, Democrats and the media they influence is steeped in anti-black racism.

libfreeordie on April 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Some things he posts are completely evident to him as tripe to just needle us. Rants like the one we referred to are an honest truth to him as he sees in in his pathos. He and his version of the black community are the epicenter of historical woe and we’re the cause. It is amazing he can depart from his liberal party affiliation to attack those folks as racist in his eyes too. He is “for” abortion but he sees the racism in liberal support of the practice. Win/win for a schizophrenic.

All hinges on rationalization.

No one is better at it than him.

hawkdriver on April 11, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Even coming from a pretty liberal family myself, abortion was never something my family particularly condoned. Becoming more conservative after joining the military I became very anti-abortion, then outspoken and felt more passionate the more I learned about the practice. It really became my deepest conservative conviction as I moved in that direction. In that time, I was mentored by a Chaplain I Bible studied under. The man should have written a book. Nearly thirty years ago, I don’t want to say he predicted, but he calculated the results and he couldn’t have been more accurate. He called it all. He said there would be a desensitization of the practice by a well organized face with a responsible sounding title. “Planned Parenthood”. He said the line in the sand would continually be redrawn and eventually moved past removing a tissue mass until we were euthanizing live but unwanted babies. He said “sometime down the road”, people would even be accepting of that. And he said it would all be sold as you’re for it or anti-woman.

Who would have thought?

hawkdriver on April 10, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Pope Paul IV?

cptacek on April 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Media score – Rutgers 41, Gosnell 0

Rice was fired last week from Rutgers…And in one week it earned him 36 network news stories clocking in at 41 minutes, 26 seconds of air time on ABC, CBS and NBC.

Now, had Rice been accused of killing a woman and eight babies, he’d be enjoying the same anonymity as Kermit Gosnell– provided the killings were carried out in an abortion clinic. Gosnell is the West Philadelphia abortionist who ran an unimaginable charnel house of a “clinic,” for 30 years. Witnesses testified that he may have murdered over 100 babies outside the womb. Gosnell’s trial, underway for weeks, has featured wrenching testimony and horrific details. And it has received exactly zero seconds of airtime on the broadcast networks.

“We can’t win the political war until we take on the Hollywood and mainstream media battles.”

- Andrew Breitbart

ITguy on April 11, 2013 at 12:07 PM

I’m pro-choice and I’m glad Gosnell is being prosecuted. If found guilty his clinic should be shut down and he should go to jail.

However, those in the “abortion is murder” camp would want the same thing even if he hadn’t engaged in such practices and his clinic was as pure as the driven snow.

That the anti-abortion zealots cannot distinguish between a clinic that is operating in accordance with the law and one that is not, betrays an intrinsic phoniness in their outrage at Gosnell’s reprehensible acts.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 2:07 PM

We can’t know which clinics are operating in accordance with the law and which are not. Many laws regarding regulations of abortion laws are thrown out by liberal judges. We can’t get medical records, even with all identifying details left out, to determine if the abortionists are reporting statutory rape, as they are required by law to do. George Tiller performed over 160 abortions on girls under 14, and reported 2! We can’t get medical records to determine how many weeks along the woman was. Kansas has shredded important documents when trying to determine if abortionists broke the law.

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/2011/10/28/malkin-shredding-kathleen-sebelius/

I was going to extract certain information in the above article, but I would have ended up quoting the entire thing.

cptacek on April 11, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Pope Paul IV?

cptacek on April 11, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Oops. Pope Paul VI?

cptacek on April 11, 2013 at 12:38 PM

I don’t know. I suppose it depends on what particular state regulations are in effect.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Actually, no, I don’t think they do.

chumpThreads on April 10, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Although s/he backtracked, s/he was right the first time. In fact, it DOES depend on state laws. In Virginia, if the umbilical cord is still attached but the entire body is out, it is still ok to kill the baby.

A mother who suffocated her newborn baby earlier this month in Campbell County, Virginia cannot be prosecuted, say investigators, because the umbilical cord was still attached.

“In the state of Virginia as long as the umbilical cord is attached and the placenta is still in the mother, if the baby comes out alive the mother can do whatever she wants to with that baby to kill it,” stated investigator Tracy Emerson. “She could shoot the baby, stab the baby. As long as it’s still attached to her in some form by umbilical cord or something it’s no crime in the state of Virginia.”

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/dec/09122106

cptacek on April 11, 2013 at 1:19 PM

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