Gun-rights testimony from a communism survivor: “You don’t know what freedom is, because you’ve never lost it”

posted at 2:41 pm on April 8, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

I am always amazed — amazed — when anyone has the gall to dismiss, even laugh off, the suggestion that the right to keep and bear arms is a smart and necessary provision for a free society. Human history (not to mention current events!) is too chock-full of examples of nefarious regimes violently abusing and controlling their people, and the freedoms enjoyed by American citizens are the exception, not the rule. During a committee hearing of the Oregon state senate in considering their own state package of gun-control legislation last week, one testifier reminded the assembled lawmakers of one of the Second Amendment’s most crucial purposes, and of the real-world consequences of neglecting that purpose.

This guy.

In 1957 a Revolution … individuals … malicious individuals, masquerading as Democrats, revolutionaries, established a regime … a dictatorial regime … in my nation.  Called Communism, Socialism, Stalinism, Marxism, and whatever other named -ism you want to put on it.  The reason why it was done was to take away the guns from the People.   The right of the People to wear guns.  That is a God-given Right.  It’s not given by anybody.  It’s not given by any group.   It’s the same thing as freedom, which is a God-given Right.  And no one, absolutely no one, has the authority to take it away.  To cease to defend the Second Amendment, and my God-given Right of freedom, will cease only with my death.

I’ve been through it.  I’ve been there.  You people don’t know what freedom is because you never lost it.  You haven’t been tortured.  You haven’t been [sic] assassinations, you haven’t been mothers begging for the life of their son not to be killed because the only reason is they wanted to be free.  And they killed the mothers and they killed the son.

So my way to protest, the way to oppose, because if we keep tangling with the Second Amendment, we are open the same way that Cuba was open for Communism.  China, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Venezuela, on and on.  A dictatorial regime that will destroy this country, in the same way that it destroyed those ones that I mentioned to you.

Powerful.


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How many armed souls would’ve gone to the death camps or the gulags?

OhEssYouCowboys on April 8, 2013 at 2:46 PM

“You don’t know what freedom is, because you’ve never lost it”

I’ve often said this about people, especially Leftists, in this country. They take freedom for granted, assuming it will always be there because it always has been in their lifetimes.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Oh, I forgot, tyranny can’t happen here.

Impossible.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM

But the 2nd Amendment only applies to hunting, right?

You don’t need 10 bullets to kill a deer!!!!!” – saith the Sage of New Jerk.

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 2:49 PM

How shameful that we, a free people, apparently require immigrants to explain this whole freedom thing to us.

JohnTant on April 8, 2013 at 2:49 PM

But the Progressives know better.

Just ask them.

catmman on April 8, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Troll-free thread comin’ right up.

Akzed on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

So my way to protest, the way to oppose, because if we keep tangling with the Second Amendment, we are open the same way that Cuba was open for Communism. China, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Venezuela, on and on. A dictatorial regime that will destroy this country, in the same way that it destroyed those ones that I mentioned to you.

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

But.. But… we liberals are so caring! How can you not want us, your betters, to rule over you? We know and only have your best interests at heart, and besides, think of the children! It takes a village, right? They aren’t your children anyway, they are the communities’ children. What is this word, “tyranny?” And what was wrong with the Hungarian Revolution anyway?

It couldn’t possibly happen here, because we leftists only want what is best, and how can you not trust us?

/DoINeedThis?

Vanceone on April 8, 2013 at 2:53 PM

It appears bho/team/d’s/rino’s are he!! bent on taking our freedom away and it is happening daily by their votes/mandates/regulations!

I have NO idea how to stop this? The elected won’t listen to us no matter how much we protest them? I sure don’t want to end up like a country this man is telling us about!
L

letget on April 8, 2013 at 2:55 PM

My gosh, bayam struck with my exact argument before I posted it! He (she?) wants us to trust them that they won’t do what they did in Hungary–but just to make sure, if we were wrong in placing our trust, well, we won’t be able to resist after they disarm us all.

But hey, all that stuff about casually slaughtering 25 million americans to implement leftist Utopia that our current president was steeped is just nothing to worry about…. Look, Beyonce!

Vanceone on April 8, 2013 at 2:56 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

SMFH…

catmman on April 8, 2013 at 2:56 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

It’s not about what is, it’s about what could be, the future. Liberals are never going to understand that because the put all, and I mean ALL their faith in a benevolent government.

WordsMatter on April 8, 2013 at 2:58 PM

What part of “…shall not be infringed” is lost on you sorry libwits?

gryphon202 on April 8, 2013 at 2:58 PM

These laws are not trying to take anything away, they are all “common sense” laws designed to make things safer for everyone. The second amendment is part of the constitution. We only want to keep guns out of the hands of people who would use them for ill will. People like you are not going to be affected, only the people we deem to be dangers to society at large, for example, people like you. People who would dare try to stand against the control we seek to exert over others. People who think their rights come from above and not my desk at the capitol. People who just want to live their lives in peace.

That’s what these laws are for.

People like you.

(I’m not sarc tagging this, as I really think that’s how these “leaders” think)

Gatsu on April 8, 2013 at 2:59 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Why aren’t they comparable? A lazy population unable to think for themselves and only interested in the newest shiny bauble?

Do you see anything or anyone in today’s society EXCEPT for the second amendment people who would fight for anything except their comforts?

People are ALREADY happily giving up their freedoms and privacy unquestioningly. Do you not think that they’d line up quietly to go into the gas chambers if someone told them it was the line up for the newest toy?

It may not happen in our lifetimes, but Orwell’s vision is pretty much here, although with comfort to keep us sated.

Maybe you don’t mind hence your shrugging it off. That’s okay – leave us be and get out of the way.

kim roy on April 8, 2013 at 3:00 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

I hope you’re one of the first on the train…you know they go after the useful idiots first, don’t you???

NJ Red on April 8, 2013 at 3:00 PM

There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.
 
bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

 
We’re still waiting on you to tell us the top three most dangerous weapons from your other abandoned thread, bayam.
 

…the more grounded goal of removing the most dangerous weapons from wide circulation, weapons that can do the most damage in the hands of criminals and the criminally insane.
 
bayam on March 15, 2013 at 3:40 PM

 
Which specific “most dangerous weapons” are those, bayam?
 
Since you chose to use the plural, the top three is fine.
 
rogerb on March 15, 2013 at 4:30 PM

rogerb on April 8, 2013 at 3:00 PM

1) Ask Native American how well it worked out for them after the Federal Government took away their guns.

2) Post civil war, southern Democrats attempted to forbid freed slaves and others from owning guns because they were afraid that they would have the audacity to fight back when being lynched by the Democrat’s buddies in the KKK.

3)1942. 120,000 Japanese Americans and 12,000 German and Italian Americans had their guns taken way so that they could be put in armed camps and their property stolen. Done by Executive Order from a Democrat president.

It has happened in this country before, always following gun control.

There is no cause that one can think of that has a deeper, more malevolent history of racism and genocide.

kurtzz3 on April 8, 2013 at 3:01 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

I’m sure many Jewish people found the idea that six million of their number would be slaughtered to be unbelievable, even laughable. Until it happened.

idalily on April 8, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Most Americans don’t know what freedom is, they think it’s about downloading free stuff at pirate bay, sleeping around, or getting high.

Daemonocracy on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

“Most liberals believe that water runs downhill, but, praise God, it’ll never reach the bottom.”
–Robert A. Heinlein

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

In Oregon, no less.
No, Bayam, the left in this country have already achieved gun control by the lack of ammo and hope to achieve it further because Barack’s fundamental changing of this country is full steam ahead and he can not achieve complete success with an armed citizenry.
I maintain we lost our freedom, incrementally, already.

ORconservative on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

This is what Jews in Europe thought in the 1930′s – 1940′s “this could never happen”.

mikhail1973 on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Erika, tell your liberal/progressive acquaintances to google and then watch a 1968 ABC Movie of the Week, Shadow on the Land. Then read the reactions to it by the liberal media and punditry. They didn’t always feel that it can’t happen here.

xkaydet65 on April 8, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Using Bayams logic:

Legalizing abortion would never result in partial birth abortions or killing babies born after botched attempts.

The Government would never use the courts to take away the property of the individual for the benefit of the State.

Police agencies would never allow militarization to result in botched searches contrary to 4th Amend,net protections.

If we just have on more amnesty, the illegal alien problem would be solved.

There is no way the government can force you to buy health insurance or face government retribution.

Infinitume ad nauseam…

catmman on April 8, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Bayam has already secured a position as a boxcar loader.

tom daschle concerned on April 8, 2013 at 3:04 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

In 1929, I doubt that the Jews in Germany, Austria, Poland, et al. imagined that within 10 years, they would be forceably removed from their homes, their possessions taken from them, and that they would be sent to concentration camps where they would be lucky to survive.

And yet…..

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:05 PM

I’ve often said this about people, especially Leftists, in this country. They take freedom for granted, assuming it will always be there because it always has been in their lifetimes.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM

THIS. people are so naive. do people study history? so many people in world history have been in countries with very restricted freedom. we in america are blessed, and people don’t even notice that.

Troll-free thread comin’ right up.

Akzed on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

if only!

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

you’re so naive. freedoms being taken away doesn’t always happen obviously and suddenly. sometimes bad things creep in so slowly that if you’re not paying attention you think nothing’s wrong. by the time you realize how many freedoms you’ve lost, it’s too late. so you have to stop the creeping in of these things before they get too prevalent and restricting. wake up!!

Sachiko on April 8, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Bayam thinks our country, an infant in world history, is somehow different and special. Well maybe on some level he is right, but the individual having the ultimate right to arm themselves is a major reason this nation is different, special, and free.

Daemonocracy on April 8, 2013 at 3:08 PM

PS, I don’t know wth the Oregon Senate is wasting their time(as usual) on this. There is very little ammunition available in this state.
I hope this communist survivor is well stocked up.

ORconservative on April 8, 2013 at 3:08 PM

the more grounded goal of removing the most dangerous weapons from wide circulation, weapons that can do the most damage in the hands of criminals and the criminally insane.

bayam on March 15, 2013 at 3:40 PM

Which specific “most dangerous weapons” are those, bayam?

Since you chose to use the plural, the top three is fine.

rogerb on March 15, 2013 at 4:30 PM

rogerb on April 8, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Molotov cocktails would kill more… easily a whole school full of children and teachers… than any mere guns could.

We must ban bottles, gasoline, and cloth!

For the children.

In memory of Sandy Hook.

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 3:09 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

This is what Jews in Europe thought in the 1930′s – 1940′s “this could never happen”.

mikhail1973 on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

If you’re suggesting that gun ownership would have protected the Jews in Europe, you couldn’t be more wrong. Try reading a book about the rise of the Nazis and course of the Holocaust before making such tasteless statement. Most Jews I know find your argument offensive.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

LIAR.

The entire purpose of the 2nd Amendment was to prevent government tyranny. Here is a link where you can educate yourself on Trench Coxe, who published his “Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution,” in the Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 shortly after they were submitted by James Madison. I’ll save you the brain strain and quote a summary…

As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow-citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.

If you wish to see the original words (which remained unchallenged from that time), you may browse [here].

And our interpretation is the only one that meshes with another important document, partially quoted here…

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Do you recognize that quote? Or are you historically illiterate as your post above implies?

dominigan on April 8, 2013 at 3:12 PM

Troll-free thread comin’ right up.

Akzed on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Spoke too soon.
bayam showed up to to prove you wrong.

dentarthurdent on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Bayam thinks our country, an infant in world history, is somehow different and special. Well maybe on some level he is right, but the individual having the ultimate right to arm themselves is a major reason this nation is different, special, and free.

Daemonocracy on April 8, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Yemen and Iran have among the highest rate of gun ownership in the world. What I said is that gun ownership doesn’t correlate with democracy or a government that protects individual liberties.
Australia has enacted the most stringent gun control reforms, yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.
Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

But the Progressives know better.

Just ask them.

catmman on April 8, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Yes. When they become the tyrants they’ll be the good kind. Don’t we silly serfs know anything?

yhxqqsn on April 8, 2013 at 3:15 PM

If you’re suggesting that gun ownership would have protected the Jews in Europe, you couldn’t be more wrong. Try reading a book about the rise of the Nazis and course of the Holocaust before making such tasteless statement. Most Jews I know find your argument offensive.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Most women, blacks, and gays I know would be horrified to know you wanted to increase their probability of being a victim.

/this insincere rhetoric is really moving the ball

tom daschle concerned on April 8, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Tell me, bayam – what people, being armed at a rate comparable to the US, have been subjected to tyranny/enslaved/dominated by their government against their will?

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:15 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

And the JPFO is there to remind those Jewish acquaintances of yours just what “Never Again” means and more importantly, how to keep it from happening again.

Quite frankly, you are arguing from anecdote and not data.

JohnTant on April 8, 2013 at 3:16 PM

If other states offer any example, the “assembled legislators” couldn’t give a sh*t about his testimony. If they want gun control , they’re going to get it. Statisticians with facts, teen shooters with scholarships, ex-Communist refugees — they don’t care.

rrpjr on April 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Only because no one has pushed for it yet. Is pre-WWII Germany a mythical beast invented by conservatives? Now that the citizens of Australia and the UK are disarmed it will be easy for a group of despicable men to put the people under their thumbs. I think you also need to do some reading though on crime statistics in these two nations after they violated everyone’s God given right to self defense.

Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

At the end of the day an armed society turns out to be a safer society both in terms of crime, and government tyranny. Just because the UK and Australia (or even your homeland of liberty denying suckatood called Canada) are not tyrannies today does not mean they can never be tyrannies. Disarming citizens does not lead to tyranny, but armed citizens do not fall to tyranny.

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

You can’t really be that effing stupid. Passively sit back and wait for your new tattoo or die fighting. I’ll take the latter.

antipc on April 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Tell me, bayam – what people, being armed at a rate comparable to the US, have been subjected to tyranny/enslaved/dominated by their government against their will?

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Yemen, Iran, Saudi Arabia.

You make it sound like the United States’ political culture of democracy is based upon the Tea Party throwing a gun rally every few years.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM

. Most Jews I know find your argument offensive.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Not the Jews who escaped Sobibor by overpowering their guards, killing them, and using their guns in a mass break out.

And not the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto would fought back with smuggled-in guns.

And not the Jews in the American military who went armed with guns, grenades, bazookas, tanks, flame throwers, and bombers to liberate Europe.

That kind of offensive keeps you alive.

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 3:18 PM

If you’re suggesting that gun ownership would have protected the Jews in Europe, you couldn’t be more wrong. Try reading a book about the rise of the Nazis and course of the Holocaust before making such tasteless statement. Most Jews I know find your argument offensive.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Wrong again. The Nazis took the guns away early on so that when the rounding up of the Jews occurred, it was so much easier for them. If all the Jews had still had their guns, the Nazis would have had quite a problem on their hands. A civil war would have occurred which would have slowed the Nazis ultimate world-domination hopes.

Oh, and by the way, how was it that we defeated the Nazis in the end? Guns.

Liberal idiot.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Only because no one has pushed for it yet. Is pre-WWII Germany a mythical beast invented by conservatives?

You’re right, if the Jews had been armed the Holocaust would have never occurred. Sheer brilliance.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Something to ponder partners – If there is such a great desire with the populace for self-disarmament, why do they feel the need to have to use mass murder crisis to implement such schemes?

Couldn’t the National Socialist Democrats have simply stated this desire Before the election so that everyone would know for what they were voting for?

Why do they feel the need to rush these kinds of clampdown on our freedoms?

Galt2009 on April 8, 2013 at 3:20 PM

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Down with high capacity towel racks!

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:21 PM

I had Russian citizens tell me the right to bear arms was the greatest thing in this country. I had a someone from Ukraine describe Stalin and Hitler — they would kill just to scare people.

I will not give the details.

And a second benefit, they also said that invading this nut house is to them like a land war in Asia would be for us. But who needs to protect themselves from other nations?

Of course, we have our awesome government protecting us from invaders. Look at how well they handle our undocumented aliens.

And Remember Benghazi!

IlikedAUH2O on April 8, 2013 at 3:21 PM

mikhail1973 on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

 
Most Jews I know find your argument offensive.
 
bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

 
It took eight minutes to ask them all.

rogerb on April 8, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Yep. Reference the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

JohnTant on April 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Troll-free thread comin’ right up.

Akzed on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Spoke too soon.
bayam showed up to to prove you wrong.

dentarthurdent on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

He showed up. Just forgot to bring any intellect with him.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Does “IDF” ring a bell?

mikhail1973 on April 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Go straight to f*cking hell. “Useful idiot” is a phrase that only begins to scratch the surface in describing your craven, imbecilic f*ckwitted bleatings. If you only destroyed yourself that would be one thing; that you eagerly cheer for things that would work to destroy us all makes you, well… the enemy.

Midas on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

A civil war would have occurred which would have slowed the Nazis ultimate world-domination hopes.

HotAir should really post a warning to the Jewish community to be prepared for offensive comments posted by individuals with a child-like understanding of the Holocaust. Let me help you at least try and comprehend how Europeans and Jews perceive this kind of remark

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

You’re right, if the Jews had been armed the Holocaust would have never occurred. Sheer brilliance.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Not surprising you miss the point. You made the point that the UK and Australia have not become tyrannies, and also implied it is Absurd to think they may ever become so. I used Germany as an example to prove how idiotic you are. Also, did you read that article I linked?

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Australia has enacted the most stringent gun control reforms, yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.
Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Yes. Because tourists know everything that goes on on a daily basis.

Really?

You want to cite socialist countries where they are already very quietly government controlled? Okay, then.

kim roy on April 8, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

hey lightweight, tell us what you thik is the best argument to defend the 2nd amendment, I know you went plural but I want the best one

bayam won’t answer this (prove me wrong baybay)

DanMan on April 8, 2013 at 3:25 PM

What is it about law abiding citizens owning firearms that makes the troll so nervous?

CurtZHP on April 8, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Liberals can’t stand people like this witness. All they can do is pooh-pooh their testimony and dismiss it. But liberals can never guarantee it couldn’t happen here or in any other Western society. Like it or not, there are people in our own country who would love nothing better than to send a lot of others to camps in the Southwest or Alaska. A smaller minority of those would have no problem killing those prisoners. Power often brings out the true nature of a man, and some of those men are extremely dangerous. Most such are on the side of liberalism.

Liam on April 8, 2013 at 3:26 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Gee, *my* Jewish friends say you’re full of it and have no intention of quietly handing over their funds to a fascist regime. Again.

So your attempt at absolute moral authority is a failure, as is your attempt to play the Anti Semite card.

JohnTant on April 8, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Bayam, so is Switzerland, the ONLY country that stayed out of WW2 and has had a stable government for centuries. There IS a correlation between these facts.

michaelo on April 8, 2013 at 3:27 PM

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Down with high capacity towel racks!

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:21 PM

And end up as a bar of soap yerself.

The 2nd Amendment is to arm a people’s militia.

What do militia’s require?

Military [style] weapons.

You don’t need a militia to go huntin’.

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 3:28 PM

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Where’s that Captain Picard facepalm pic?

So post-WWI Germany disarmed the citizenry and the Nazis subsequently subjugated all of Germany…what was the point you were trying to make again?

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Iran – 7.3 guns per 100 people.
Yemen – 54.8 guns per 100 people.
Saudi Arabia – 35 guns per 100 people.

United States – 88.8 guns per 100 people.

What people, comparably armed, have been subjected to tyranny against their will?

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Let me help you at least try and comprehend how Europeans and Jews perceive this kind of remark

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Salon, a liberal rag, to tell us to stop using Hitler as an example of what happens when disarming socialists get into power.

You really just can’t understand this at all, can you?

kim roy on April 8, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Bitter clinger.

BobMbx on April 8, 2013 at 3:31 PM

The Founders were smart enough to realized most nations are enslaved by their own governments, that’s why they gave us the Second Amendment.

Axion on April 8, 2013 at 3:32 PM

HotAir should really post a warning to the Jewish community to be prepared for offensive comments posted by individuals with a child-like understanding of the Holocaust. Let me help you at least try and comprehend how Europeans and Jews perceive this kind of remark

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Wow, a weak Salon article that even admits that gun ownership was strictly forbidden by the Jews.

You have no idea what it was like during that time and you don’t want to know. Tell me, who are you going to rely on to protect you when they come for you. Because you clearly won’t defend yourself.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:32 PM

If you only destroyed yourself that would be one thing; that you eagerly cheer for things that would work to destroy us all makes you, well… the enemy.

Midas on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Which is precisely what I called this filth, and a couple of others, in another of today’s threads.

They should be utterly ignored on HotAir, and sent packing to whatever filthy, pro-Communist site they might choose to engage.

They are the enemy and they foul HotAir.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 8, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Boom! This should rally the populace against the creeping tyranny we see today.

jake49 on April 8, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Australia has enacted the most stringent gun control reforms, yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

You do know that violent crime is speaking upwards in Australia, yes??

HarryStar on April 8, 2013 at 3:34 PM

But liberals can never guarantee it couldn’t happen here or in any other Western society.

They want it to happen here. They want opposition silenced and crushed. As long as it’s their ideology wearing the boots. Like children, they can’t understand how such events end up tyrannizing everybody.

rrpjr on April 8, 2013 at 3:34 PM

And end up as a bar of soap yerself.

The 2nd Amendment is to arm a people’s militia.

What do militia’s require?

Military [style] weapons.

You don’t need a militia to go huntin’.

profitsbeard on April 8, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Down with soap on a rope!

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Australia has enacted the most stringent gun control reforms, yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

You do know that violent crime is spiraling upwards in Australia, yes??HarryStar on April 8, 2013 at 3:34 PM

HarryStar on April 8, 2013 at 3:36 PM

bayam was hitting the keys every three minutes until I asked him what his best argument for the 2nd amendment was….awwww

I saw he linked a Salon piece for his defence and knew he had nothing.

DanMan on April 8, 2013 at 3:37 PM

They want it to happen here. They want opposition silenced and crushed. As long as it’s their ideology wearing the boots. Like children, they can’t understand how such events end up tyrannizing everybody.

rrpjr on April 8, 2013 at 3:34 PM

ABSOLUTELY!

THEY WANT THEIR KIND OF TYRANNY, HERE.

Excellent post, rrpjr. One of the best posts I’ve seen in a long time.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 8, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Australia has enacted the most stringent gun control reforms, yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.
Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Since the gun ban in Australia, assaults are up almost 34% and sexual assaults up 20%.
Yup – sounds like a doggone peaceful paradise…./

dentarthurdent on April 8, 2013 at 3:40 PM

They want it to happen here. They want opposition silenced and crushed. As long as it’s their ideology wearing the boots. Like children, they can’t understand how such events end up tyrannizing everybody.

rrpjr on April 8, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Hell, Bill Ayers – who launched HRH Dinglef–k’s career – stated that 25 million Americans would have to be ‘eliminated’ in order to implement his leftist utopia.

Where do you stand on that, bayam? Do you agree with Ayers (and by extension, the President) that 25 million of us have to die for you guys to win?

Now explain why we’re crazy for wanting to remain armed, in keeping with the founders’ wishes.

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:40 PM

…comments posted by individuals with a child-like understanding of the Holocaust. Let me help you at least try and comprehend how Europeans and Jews perceive this kind of remark
 
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/stop_talking_about_hitler/
 
bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:23 PM

 
Aaaaand from the link:
 

“The law did prohibit Jews and other persecuted classes from owning guns, but this should not be an indictment of gun control in general…”

 
Meaning it was a variable (or “thing” for salon linkers with child-like understanding of topics) that was removed so that Jews would no longer have that option.
 
Well done. You were trying to argue the opposite with your link, right?

rogerb on April 8, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Should an unarmed people, currently living in a gentle servitude, suddenly come upon a State that determines that the time is right for them to live in a far more oppressive servitude … how will those unarmed people prevent their fate?

Let’s go first to Tiananmen Square, shall we?

OhEssYouCowboys on April 8, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.

There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

.
Good point ….. also, look at all of the countries that have had unrestricted private ownership of firearms, and turned into tyrannical dictatorships anyway.

Oh, wait …..
.
They’re not “free” in Britain and Australia. They just don’t have a Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, de Kirchner, or Chavez yet.

listens2glenn on April 8, 2013 at 3:43 PM

A past life in a communist nation doesn’t preclude a person from idiocy. The idea that the United States is comparable to China or Poland is laughable. Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

You continue to demonstrate your lack of foresight and historical ignorance. Just because it hasn’t happened yet in the places that you mention, does not mean that it will not happen. But you are hell bent on making sure that we aren’t prepared for it, like your little friend blatant-partisan. Like him, you would rather see us disarmed and helpless in the face of tyranny.

That you would dispute this man’s insight into this matter and how it relates to the 2nd Amendment, only further illustrates how laughable you are. You continually post in these threads, and get trounced, then you run away only to pop back up again to get trounced once more. Typical liberal troll.

ShadowsPawn on April 8, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Yemen and Iran have among the highest rate of gun ownership in the world. What I said is that gun ownership doesn’t correlate with democracy or a government that protects individual liberties.
Australia has enacted the most stringent gun control reforms, yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.
Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

(1) Yemen is not a country. It is a group of tribes that inhabit a place called Yemen on the map, just like Afghanistan.

(2) Iran does not have a high rate of private gun ownership. They have a boat load of various government sponsored militias and para military forces like the “Basij” who are used to put down the common people who disagree with the government or Islamic rule. Also remember according to the Iranian government, for example, there is no homosexuals in Iran so I would take whatever they say with a grain of salt.

I guess gun ownership and having laws outlawing guns does not prevent crime, would you not agree, when you consider places like Mexico which has strict gun laws yet high murder rates. The fact is historically speaking a government has a much greater chance of falling into tyranny and dictatorship if the people are deprived of their rights to own guns. Just because it has not happened in Australia yet does not change that fact, because for every Australia there are ten Cubas and Soviet Unions.

And “bayam” belonging to a para-military force that is government controlled is NOT private gun ownership.

William Eaton on April 8, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Well done. You were trying to argue the opposite with your link, right?

rogerb on April 8, 2013 at 3:41 PM

I doubt he read the link. He just found one Jew (the author) who was foolish enough to argue that guns wouldn’t have helped the Jews against the Nazis even though the evidence in the article argued the other way.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:45 PM

He showed up. Just forgot to bring any intellect with him.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Nothing new there…..

dentarthurdent on April 8, 2013 at 3:45 PM

Britain, Australia and other democracies with gun control laws have shown no signs of spiraling into torture-based dictatorships, and the idea that national gun ownership is an indicator of freedom is laughable.
There are powerful arguments for the 2nd Amendment but this isn’t one of them.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Glad you can see the future…in 20/30/40 years…pal, There wasn’t a more beautiful country than Cuba in the 50′s…
It wasn’t “laughable” there, nor in Germany, or any other country.

But one thing is sure…an armed citizenry won’t be taken hostage.

And any of these bills would not have protected one life…the only life these bureaucrats care about, is their political life.

Here

right2bright on April 8, 2013 at 3:46 PM

rogerb on April 8, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Not having a solid foundation in any sort of logical understanding of the universe he argues his points individually to suit his leftist beliefs. Of course when those individual positions contradict each other he is left speechless and unable to continue arguing. He seems to have contradicted himself into a corner and is probably self mutilating as I type this over completely flummoxing himself.

NotCoach on April 8, 2013 at 3:46 PM

I’ve often said this about people, especially Leftists, in this country. They take freedom for granted, assuming it will always be there because it always has been in their lifetimes.

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM

BC, what makes you think leftists are interested in freedom?

Odysseus on April 8, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Troll-free thread comin’ right up.

Akzed on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Dang, you missed on that one.

yet any tourist will tell you that it’s a flourishing democracy.
Again, not a great argument for the 2nd Amendment.

bayam on April 8, 2013 at 3:14 PM

A tourist would be a good source for this information, why? They wouldn’t have any idea whether it’s a flourishing “democracy” or not.

GWB on April 8, 2013 at 3:51 PM

To engage the Communist filth that befouls HotAir is the equivalent of calling the Department of Sewage and demanding that they re-orient the flow of all city-wide, human sewage into your home.

Ignore this filth – they are the enemy.

They are human sewage.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 8, 2013 at 3:52 PM

“You don’t know what freedom is, because you’ve never lost it”

Get off my lawn, you damn foreigner.

nonpartisan on April 8, 2013 at 3:53 PM

The reason why it was done was to take away the guns from the People.

utter nonsense.

The right of the People to wear guns. That is a God-given Right.

right, god-given. if you can prove it, you can have it.

sesquipedalian on April 8, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Bitter Clinger on April 8, 2013 at 2:47 PM

.
BC, what makes you think leftists are interested in freedom?

Odysseus on April 8, 2013 at 3:48 PM

.
What interest does anyone have in anything, that they take for granted will always be there?

If most of our liberal common citizens suddenly found themselves under a Hugo Chavez, or Fidel Castro, they would have a FAST change of heart.

listens2glenn on April 8, 2013 at 3:54 PM

“Most liberals believe that water runs downhill, but, praise God, it’ll never reach the bottom.”
–Robert A. Heinlein

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Great quote, but dated in one respect. Most liberals don’t praise God anymore.

novaculus on April 8, 2013 at 3:55 PM

…the more grounded goal of removing the most dangerous weapons from wide circulation

bayam on March 15, 2013 at 3:40 PM

You’d better go read Heller and McDonald, my friend. Or, you can just read some of this:

Senator Dianne Feinstein: “I’m Not a Sixth Grader”

‘Wide circulation’ is one reason that your new little laws WILL be struck down by the Supreme Court.

Resist We Much on April 8, 2013 at 3:55 PM

right, god-given. if you can prove it, you can have it.

sesquipedalian on April 8, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Prove you’ve got a right to free speech, free birth control, abortion on demand et al.

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:55 PM

The reason why it was done was to take away the guns from the People.

.
utter nonsense.

sesquipedalian on April 8, 2013 at 3:53 PM

.
The actual reason it was done, is ___________________________
(fill in the blank)

listens2glenn on April 8, 2013 at 3:56 PM

Prove you’ve got a right to free speech, free birth control, abortion on demand et al.

Washington Nearsider on April 8, 2013 at 3:55 PM

they’re man-given, imbecile. i don’t recognize any law as divine.

sesquipedalian on April 8, 2013 at 3:58 PM

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