ATF pulls license of one particular gun shop

posted at 11:01 am on April 7, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

It took little more than the headline of this article to begin raising eyebrows

Gun shop that sold to mother of Newtown shooter loses license

(Reuters) – The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said on Friday it had revoked the federal license of a Connecticut gun retailer that sold a weapon to the mother of Adam Lanza, who killed 26 people at an elementary school in December.

The agency on December 20 revoked the license of Riverview Gun Sales in East Windsor, Connecticut, ATF spokeswoman Debora Seifert said. The revocation was reported in The Journal News, of Westchester County, New York, on Friday.

“We did revoke their federal firearms license,” she said. The agency did not publicly disclose a reason for the closure.

This announcement has already provoked cries of Tyranny from alarmed Second Amendment defenders, and it’s no mystery why. The old rule of where there’s smoke there’s fire would make it utterly ignorant to see something like this happen and not have more questions. But there is still a lot that we don’t know about this. For one thing, the response from Riverview – the gun shop in question – was rather muted.

A woman who answered the telephone at Riverview on Friday, and did not give her name, confirmed the store had sold a weapon to Lanza’s mother, Nancy, and that its license had been revoked. She declined further comment.

This doesn’t rule out the whole Tyranny! suspicion, because it’s certainly possible that the shop owners feel like they are under the microscope of the ATF and are cautious about talking to the media. But before I go rushing to judgement here, it’s worth noting that there are other possibilities which aren’t far fetched at all. Various businesses get their licenses pulled all the time for offenses ranging from gross misconduct to mundane paperwork snafus. Stores get banned from selling cigarettes or alcohol if one of their employees is found selling to minors a couple of times or if they fail to send in a renewal or inspection form by the proper date.

There was obviously a high profile, extensive investigation after the Newtown shooting which delved into every pertinent fact of the case,and that would have included a look at the shop where the weapons were originally purchased. While it’s not impossible that somebody in the administration is going after this shop out of vengeance, it’s also possible that the aftermath of the investigation turned up some problematic detail about Riverview’s operation. Particularly if it was an honest mistake in their paperwork or a code discrepancy on weapons storage which they will be able to clear up quickly and get their license restored, it would clearly be in their best interest not to go bad mouthing the ATF to reporters.

In fact, while acknowledging that this is completely speculative, if the government had gone in vindictively and yanked their license for no valid reason, I think Riverview would be all the more likely to be screaming to the rafters. The muted tone of their response makes me think that it will turn out to be something far more mundane which will be cleared up and see them back in business. Of course, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep an eye on this. I’ve been very wrong before.

UPDATE: (Jazz) Thanks to readers, apparently the local media has reported incidents of inventory problems at the store prior to the school shooting. This may be part of it.


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There was obviously a high profile, extensive investigation after the Newtown shooting which delved into every pertinent fact of the case

Except the effects of modern pharmaceuticals on the disturbed mind. But that might pose awkward questions to important people and derail the narrative.

BL@KBIRD on April 7, 2013 at 12:07 PM

Yes, well you could shut down any restaurant in existence for pest-control if you wanted to. They all have bugs.

This is just too convenient and looks completely political.

HopeHeFails on April 7, 2013 at 12:08 PM

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:23 AM

It’s funny that you don’t realize what a blabbering idiot you are, and prove it with just about every submoronic comment you make.

Midas on April 7, 2013 at 12:09 PM

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Will the government pass out muskets or semi-automtics for this “credible” militia? Will they pass out ammo, too?

Why, they just might if your president allows it. Will he inform you that a “credible” militia is needed at the time, so that you won’t feel insecure in America? After the “credible” militia has performed its duty, will your president then re-confiscate all weapons from the citizenry? Who will deem the milita credible in the first place? Your president?

ndanielson on April 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM

I don’t want you to miss out on this nonintelligent since I posted this just as the thread went to a second page:

I’m not going to waste my time responding to that because you’re bringing up this skeet nonsense to obfuscate the real issue that guns are a far greater danger to society than benefit

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Here are some facts to help you support your position.

Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

Guns Vs. Crime

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Yes, well you could shut down any restaurant in existence for pest-control if you wanted to. They all have bugs.

This is just too convenient and looks completely political.

HopeHeFails on April 7, 2013 at 12:08 PM

There are so many laws and regulations out there that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to be in compliance with all of them.

As Ayn Rand said:

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:11 PM

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM

Ugh, links.

Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

Guns Vs. Crime

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:11 PM

cars serve a necessary purpose in the functioning of society…guns don’t. hth (hope this helps)

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:25 AM

Then why is the government always trying to expand “light rail” and other forms of “public transportation”…and get cars off of the streets? (Other than, of course, as a way to steal and spend more tax money.)
It would seem that the government disagrees with you about cars.

And, please, show us where in the Constitution there is any “right” to possess and/or use *any* form of transporation. AFIK, the Constitution only guarantees the American people freedom of movement throughout the land. It says nothing about how they accomplish that movement.

And, since you stupidly try to say that the 2nd Amendment only applies to “front-loading muzzle loaders” (LOL), then I’d say that any supposed “right” to transportation (other than on foot) refers ONLY to horseback and horse/mule/oxen-drawn vehicles.
You would agree with that, wouldn’t you, partisan?
Surely you must.

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 12:11 PM

from my understanding, a skeet gun would lack killing power as its not built to kill

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:45 AM

WTF?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM

frankly Im not familiar with skeet shooting…I assumed it was similar to paintball guns

noforeskin on April 7, 2013 at 11:49 AM

…and you guys always wonder why I tell these types to pull their own finger…to release the pressure on their brains…you guys have spent all this time…talking to a fluking idiot!

KOOLAID2 on April 7, 2013 at 12:12 PM

Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits

Guns Vs. Crime

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:06 PM

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM

dont think anyone ever said gun bans reduce violent crimes

the point is that gun bans would reduce crime related deathes

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

the 2nd amendment was meant to allow citizens to form a credible militia that could fight a government tyranny

now, if you think citizens with guns can fight today’s military with their tanks, chemical weapons, fighter jets then you’re in some fantasy land

why don’t we allow citizens to own their own tanks or bazookas then? i mean, weapons dont kill people, people do.

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 11:57 AM

I’m guessing you haven’t aid the slightest attention to history. The Vietnamese did a damned good job of kicking the United States Military around with little more than hand guns and rifles, and the Afghans are putting up a damned respectable fight as well.

90 million armed citizens with mere hand guns and rifles are more than a match for a million professional soldiers with tanks, planes and cannons.

Furthermore, you are mistaken, regarding regular citizens being allowed to own tanks and plans and bazookas. Owning a tank, a fighter jet or a bazooka is like owning a fully automatic machine gun, it’s more heavily regulated than just owing a rifle, (depending on which state you live in) the biggest obstacle isn’t the regulations involved… It’s the price.

You can purchase your very own M60 Patton Main Battle Tank…. If you have the $500,000.00+ dollars in cash just hiding under your mattress. The individual rounds for it only cost around $400.00 each. You can purchase your very own F4 Phantom Jet Fighter, if you have $6,000,000.00+ laying around in spare change, The fuel for it only cost $40.00 a gallon, it only requires 100 hours of flight mechanic time for every hour it flies, and only cost approximately $5000.00 per hour to fly.

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Why, they just might if your president allows it. Will he inform you that a “credible” militia is needed at the time, so that you won’t feel insecure in America? After the “credible” militia has performed its duty, will your president then re-confiscate all weapons from the citizenry? Who will deem the milita credible in the first place? Your president?

ndanielson on April 7, 2013 at 12:10 PM

The whole intent behind the Militias part of the 2nd Amendment was that the Founders intended the States to have militias THAT WERE NOT CONTROLLED by the federal government. No, the National Guard IS NOT the militia!

The purpose of which was that if the Federal Government violated, say, Tennessee, it’s militia could resist. And since originally there was no standing army (the Founders detested such an idea) the only way they could field an army anyway was to ask the States for their Militia.

Which is how we fought every war until the War of Northern Aggression when Lincoln had to introduce CONSCRIPTION to fill out his army’s ranks.

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM

Maybe there’s more to this than we know. Maybe they made a movie that pissed off Muslims or something.

29Victor on April 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM

dont think anyone ever said gun bans reduce violent crimes

the point is that gun bans would reduce crime related deathes

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Oh? Did you actually read those articles I linked, or are you too busy trying to figure out how to shoot skeet with a paintball gun?

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:15 PM

I’m not going to waste my time responding to that because you’re bringing up this skeet nonsense to obfuscate the real issue that guns are a far greater danger to society than benefit

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Firearms, by definition, protect the weakest of society. Since the advent of Beretta, the feudal system has gone bye-bye, and women have gained much in societal stature. Why do you hate women and children?
Why are you trying to promote bullies?

Here’s one from a “news” source you’d trust:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/22/world-less-violent-stats_n_1026723.html

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 12:15 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

If he were committed he would have harmed no one.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 12:16 PM

Except the effects of modern pharmaceuticals on the disturbed mind. But that might pose awkward questions to important people and derail the narrative.

BL@KBIRD on April 7, 2013 at 12:07 PM

STILL no mention of whether the shooter at Sandy Hook or in Aurora were being liberally dosed with SSRIs by their “mental health provider” prior to their ‘outburst’.

It’s almost as though everyone wants to avoid that. Odd.

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 12:17 PM

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM

We are the militia.

ndanielson on April 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM

the point is that gun bans would reduce crime related deathes

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

noforeskin covering the brain on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

…worked in Arizona…Colorado and Connecticut…keep pulling his finger!…the middle one!

KOOLAID2 on April 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

It took 20 minutes for the cops to show up. You really think that in 20 minutes a crazed killer could have only killed “3 or 4″ kindergarten kids trapped in a room with him & completely helpless?

This isn’t really a question, it’s more a confirmation for myself that you only accept reality as it reinforces your beliefs. There is therefore no point in debating you.

29Victor on April 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Joe the Plumber knows how Riverview feels.

Cleombrotus on April 7, 2013 at 12:21 PM

So does Gibson Guitar.

Cleombrotus on April 7, 2013 at 12:21 PM

You can purchase your very own M60 Patton Main Battle Tank…. If you have the $500,000.00+ dollars in cash just hiding under your mattress. The individual rounds for it only cost around $400.00 each. You can purchase your very own F4 Phantom Jet Fighter, if you have $6,000,000.00+ laying around in spare change, The fuel for it only cost $40.00 a gallon, it only requires 100 hours of flight mechanic time for every hour it flies, and only cost approximately $5000.00 per hour to fly.

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Which is why I said earlier in this thread that once DC loses the consent of the People, it will quickly lose the capability to field these advanced weapons. Runways can be sabotaged. IED’s are easy to make. Americans will make FRIGHTFUL guerrillas, when compared to uneducated Afghan barbarians…

The loyalty of the military to the Regime will also be shaky at best. It would likely not be uncommon for whole Regiments to desert rather than follow orders to open fire on civilians as punishment for not laying down their arms and submitting to Regime Decree. The most loyal will be your DHS types, which are glorified SWAT teams. And they’ll prove useless in a pitched battle. Besides, Obama would quickly deploy all such “loyal” forces around his person, keeping his unworthy skin alive anyway. He’d have to.

If a second civil war broke out (and I believe this possible) it wouldn’t be long before both sides have their own shares of tanks, planes, and drones, as well as automatic weapons and artillery. What, you think they’ll just leave and not take them with them?

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:21 PM

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:14 PM

We are the militia.

ndanielson on April 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Exactly. That is the whole point of the second amendment, every American Citizen is part of the Militia.

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:23 PM

This is the 0bama regime, it was done for political and punitive reasons. No doubt.

jukin3 on April 7, 2013 at 12:24 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Are you saying that Chinese murderers are more efficient than American murderers? After all, not long ago, a guy in China went into an elementary school with a knife and managed to carve up 20-some kids. (Of course, he didn’t kill them all. Maybe the wounded don’t count.)

Try this……………..

Worst Mass Murders in US History (any weapon):
By no coincidence all of the worst mass murders in US history have been non-gun.

Worst School Massacre in US history: Bath, Michigan School Massacre. 1927. Murder accomplished with explosives. 44 victims (equal to the Columbine and Virginia Tech massacres combined).

Worst Domestic Terrorist Attack in US History: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. 4/19/95. Murder accomplished with a rental truck full of fertilizer based explosives. 168 dead (including many children in an onsite day care).

Worst Foreign based Terrorist Attack in US History: September 11, 2001 attacks on NYC, PA, Pentagon. Murder accomplished with box cutters and commerical airliners. 3,000 people dead.

no guns needed

Here, partisan………………..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 12:25 PM

This is the 0bama regime, it was done for political and punitive reasons. No doubt.

jukin3 on April 7, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Everything this man does is for that purpose. To increase HIS POWER and to PUNISH everyone who opposes him!

In many ways, what we have right now is WORSE than a dictatorship. Obama is, a de facto dictator. He is ruling by Decree. He is violating the law. Yet, no one stops him. He hides BEHIND the trappings of Republic to shield him!

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:26 PM

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

It took 20 minutes for the cops to show up. You really think that in 20 minutes a crazed killer could have only killed “3 or 4″ kindergarten kids trapped in a room with him & completely helpless?

This isn’t really a question, it’s more a confirmation for myself that you only accept reality as it reinforces your beliefs. There is therefore no point in debating you.

29Victor on April 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM

In noncapitalist defense, it really isn’t his fault, he is a product of the American Educational system, in other words, he’s a damned Marxist prole, incapable of any cognitive or rational thought and only capable of regurgitating the official Marxist party talking points.

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:28 PM

the point is that gun bans would reduce crime related deathes

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Ignoring that silly 4th Amendment would reduce crime-related deaths even more than any attempt to ban firearms. After all, when going after one human right, why stop at self-defense? Little fascists like yourself believe that illusions of security are more important than any freedom anyway.

iconoclast on April 7, 2013 at 12:29 PM

This isn’t really a question, it’s more a confirmation for myself that you only accept reality as it reinforces your beliefs. There is therefore no point in debating you.

29Victor on April 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Leave the presence of a fool,
for there you do not meet words of knowledge. Prov. 14:7

Cleombrotus on April 7, 2013 at 12:31 PM

The non-partasian dude probably thinks a clip shoots bullets and is thrown away after use.

Electrongod on April 7, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Oh and Nonpartisan:

Your trivia question for the day.

What was the single bloodiest day of warfare ever recorded?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

Listen to this idiot.

A couple of guys with box cutters killed thousands.

What a f*ckin’ idiot.

Lanceman on April 7, 2013 at 12:35 PM

the 2nd amendment was meant to allow citizens to form a credible militia that could fight a government tyranny

now, if you think citizens with guns can fight today’s military with their tanks, chemical weapons, fighter jets then you’re in some fantasy land

why don’t we allow citizens to own their own tanks or bazookas then? i mean, weapons dont kill people, people do.

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

gee a f’ing retard does not know the difference between arms and a crew served weapons system.
what a shock.

dmacleo on April 7, 2013 at 12:37 PM

There are so many laws and regulations out there that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to be in compliance with all of them.
wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Ain’t that the truth, and when it comes to advancing the agenda of the progressives no law is too esoteric to be ignored.

fourdeucer on April 7, 2013 at 12:37 PM

Listen to this idiot.

A couple of guys with box cutters killed thousands.

What a f*ckin’ idiot.

Lanceman on April 7, 2013 at 12:35 PM

bingo.
ban planes and boxcutters.
its for the damned kids after all.

dmacleo on April 7, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Oh and Nonpartisan:

Your trivia question for the day.

What was the single bloodiest day of warfare ever recorded?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM

don’t forget the most deaths in a school were due to a car bomb set by a disgruntled politician.
ban cars for the damned kids.

dmacleo on April 7, 2013 at 12:40 PM

now, if you think citizens with guns can fight today’s military with their tanks, chemical weapons, fighter jets then you’re in some fantasy land

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

How long have we been in Afghanistan again?

Midas on April 7, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Last time I checked I could still rent a Ryder truck, buy ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel.

Lanceman on April 7, 2013 at 12:42 PM

The non-partasian dude probably thinks a clip shoots bullets and is thrown away after use.

Electrongod on April 7, 2013 at 12:32 PM

Well, he does think the “Skeet guns” are related to paintball guns. My “Skeet gun” just happens to be a Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun.

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:43 PM

How long have we been in Afghanistan again?

Midas on April 7, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Too long but I get your point.

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 12:45 PM

With no explanation. They do whatever they please, just like Adolf.

Schadenfreude on April 7, 2013 at 12:46 PM

Oh and Nonpartisan:

Your trivia question for the day.

What was the single bloodiest day of warfare ever recorded?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM

don’t forget the most deaths in a school were due to a car bomb set by a disgruntled politician.
ban cars for the damned kids.

dmacleo on April 7, 2013 at 12:40 PM

Maybe we should ban politicians…. for the Children of course…

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:48 PM

With no explanation. They do whatever they please, just like Adolf.

Schadenfreude on April 7, 2013 at 12:46 PM

I’m sure after Sandy Hook an investigation was called for to insure ATF and federal law compliance. I’d bet dollars to donuts Schaden, that they dug deep to find some clerical impropriety they thought was worthy of overreaching.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 12:50 PM

the 2nd amendment was meant to allow citizens to form a credible militia that could fight a government tyranny

now, if you think citizens with guns can fight today’s military with their tanks, chemical weapons, fighter jets then you’re in some fantasy land

If it gets to that point, we won’t be rising up against the military. We’ll be rising up against the tyrannical government. The men and women of our Armed Forces, who swore an oath to defend the Constitution, will be on our side.

Bruce MacMahon on April 7, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Well, he does think the “Skeet guns” are related to paintball guns. My “Skeet gun” just happens to be a Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun.

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Check out these old timey paintball shooters.

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Well, he does think the “Skeet guns” are related to paintball guns. My “Skeet gun” just happens to be a Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun.

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 12:43 PM

I suggested he get a starter pistol to protect himself. And my HP preference is a Mossberg 500 w/ side saddle, butt saddle and bandolier.

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 12:53 PM

Particularly if it was an honest mistake in their paperwork or a code discrepancy on weapons storage which they will be able to clear up quickly and get their license restored

True, but the license was pulled December 20 (six days after the shooting) and we’re heading into 4 months now without having cleared it up. I’d consider this unusually long for an honest mistake or discrepancy, even in the gun business.

Dusty on April 7, 2013 at 12:55 PM

Check out these old timey paintball shooters.

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM

They all use red paint balls?
*allpartisan

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 12:55 PM

This issue at its core has nothing to do with types of weapons, clips, magazines, dead children, saving children, saving lives, reduced crime, better background checks — or any permutation of public safety. Nothing. This is about power and control. Period.

We’re being ruled by a psychotic elite at their peak moment of power and control — and anxiety. They see the individual right to bear arms as an existential and institutional threat and, in their psychosis, cannot co-exist with it. They know, unconsciously at least, where their objectives of power and control may lead in the form of a resistance, and the historical threat represented by a confidently armed citizenry. The threat simply cannot stand.

rrpjr on April 7, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Schadenfreude on April 7, 2013 at 12:46 PM

I’m sure after Sandy Hook an investigation was called for to insure ATF and federal law compliance. I’d bet dollars to donuts Schaden, that they dug deep to find some clerical impropriety they thought was worthy of overreaching.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Much deeper than they dug into “Operation Fast and Furious” that’s for damned certain…

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 1:01 PM

They all use red paint balls?
*allpartisan

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 12:55 PM

No, they used black or white paint balls. As you can see by the photo colors hadn’t been invented yet.

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 1:03 PM

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 12:50 PM
Much deeper than they dug into “Operation Fast and Furious” that’s for damned certain…

SWalker on April 7, 2013 at 1:01 PM

For certain.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:04 PM

the 2nd amendment was meant to allow citizens to form a credible militia that could fight a government tyranny
now, if you think citizens with guns can fight today’s military with their tanks, chemical weapons, fighter jets then you’re in some fantasy land
why don’t we allow citizens to own their own tanks or bazookas then? i mean, weapons dont kill people, people do.
nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Afghans seem to be doing a pretty bang up job of it. What’s that? Almost 12 years now?

Genuine on April 7, 2013 at 1:06 PM

Ain’t that the truth, and when it comes to advancing the agenda of the progressives no law is too esoteric to be ignored.

fourdeucer on April 7, 2013 at 12:37 PM

Ratface violates the Constitution at least daily.

If we are so fortunate as to get a second chance at a Republic, it must have POWERFUL enforcement mechanisms against officeholders who subvert the Constitution.

Oath violation should be a criminal offense.

The States should also have the authority to try Presidents, judges, and Congressmen for such violations, since it’s apparent that partisan federal prosecutors (Holder) will not.

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 1:06 PM

My right to keep and bear arms is affirmed by the Constitution.

It is any citizen’s privilege NOT to exercise that right, if desired.

The exercise of that PRIVILEGE cannot abridge my right.

No further discussion is required or needed.

irongrampa on April 7, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Oh and Nonpartisan:

Your trivia question for the day.

What was the single bloodiest day of warfare ever recorded?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM

I would guess Gallipoli.

katy the mean old lady on April 7, 2013 at 1:10 PM

And, since you stupidly try to say that the 2nd Amendment only applies to “front-loading muzzle loaders” (LOL), then I’d say that any supposed “right” to transportation (other than on foot) refers ONLY to horseback and horse/mule/oxen-drawn vehicles.
You would agree with that, wouldn’t you, partisan?
Surely you must.

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 12:11 PM

But I thought the Constitution was a “living and breathing” document? (according to Libs.) Why then don’t they apply this belief to the 2nd Amendment? Modern day firearms should fit right in with this progressive belief!

Oh thats right, libs. only apply this new found belief when it suits their purpose!

wolverinefan on April 7, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Shooting sports have been part of the Olympic Games since 1896. How many spectators have been killed?

vityas on April 7, 2013 at 1:15 PM

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 12:33 PM
I would guess Gallipoli.

katy the mean old lady on April 7, 2013 at 1:10 PM

Single day? Without looking to antiquity, Katy, I’d say the the first day of the Somme.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:17 PM

We are the Soviet Union thanks to progressive liberalism and oba-mao and his minions. We have GOT to clean house.

ultracon on April 7, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Single day? Without looking to antiquity, Katy, I’d say the the first day of the Somme.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:17 PM

I’m 99% sure you are right. Or Verdun?

katy the mean old lady on April 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Shooting sports have been part of the Olympic Games since 1896. How many spectators have been killed?

vityas on April 7, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Yes, but they only shoot paintball skeet, geez!
*nonthinking

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 1:22 PM

O/T: Hey Hot Air, where is the link to MSNBC’s statement that children don’t belong to their parents? Why aren’t you allowing us to comment on that BULLSHIT statement? Far and away above everything else on this site is the issue of the importance of the family unit, and MSNBC has just thrown a grenade into our households claiming that we don’t own our children. You should be posting this FRONT AND CENTER so that we can comment on it. Every single representative in the land, not just dems but pubs, too, should be asked at every opportunity whether they believe that children belong to their families or to the state and what should happen to elected representatives who believe that our kids belong to the state. Get it out there, Hot Air. Be part of the solution or part of the problem. Here’s your chance.

HiJack on April 7, 2013 at 1:24 PM

the fact that you interpret it as racist reveals your inner racism…for I had no such intent in my statement and any nonracist would not’ve taken it to be

nonpartisan

That’s just what a racist would say.

Since the advent of Beretta, the feudal system has gone bye-bye, and women have gained much in societal stature. Why do you hate women and children?

WryTrvllr

Because it’s harder for him to get laid when women are packing heat.

xblade on April 7, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Getting back to the story…

A person buys a gun from a Ford dealership.
The new owner is killed in a carjacking
The carjacker is killed by police after a drive-by shooting.

Can’t go after the carjacker, he’s dead.
Can’t go after the car buyer, dead also.
So, shut down the Ford dealership?

mmmkay.

kurtzz3 on April 7, 2013 at 1:25 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4
 
nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

 
And what would’ve finally stopped him at 3 or 4?
 
Boredom?
 
Peanut allergies?
 
Oh, cops.
 
With guns.
 
Funny, that. It’s almost like they know something.
 
(Love your work, btw)

rogerb on April 7, 2013 at 1:29 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Yes because those poor little kids would have stopped him

.YOU ARE AN EFFING FOOL. F UCK OFF!

CW on April 7, 2013 at 1:32 PM

Because it’s harder for him to get laid when women are packing heat.

xblade on April 7, 2013 at 1:24 PM

He cries every time he thinks he is going to get some. Mace does that to you.

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 1:35 PM

so its very possible that nutcase would take a knife and go to the sandy school and stab the kids, but instead of 20 dead, we might have only 3 or 4

nonpartisan

Or you may have had 40, because without the sound of gunfire, no one else in the school would have even known what was going on, and he would have been free to kill even longer. Or he could have built a bomb and killed 100.

xblade on April 7, 2013 at 1:35 PM

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:17 PM
I’m 99% sure you are right. Or Verdun?

katy the mean old lady on April 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Maybe Verdun. Curious now.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:44 PM

Sure, because its a GM dealers fault a drunk gets in one of cars they sold to someone else and kills a bunch of people.

Speakup on April 7, 2013 at 1:44 PM

wolverinefan on April 7, 2013 at 1:14 PM

OT/….M E E E E E E E E E E E C H I G A N !

KOOLAID2 on April 7, 2013 at 1:45 PM

Or you may have had 40, because without the sound of gunfire, no one else in the school would have even known what was going on, and he would have been free to kill even longer…
 
xblade on April 7, 2013 at 1:35 PM

 
Shut up, racist.
 
(Seriously, though, that’s an extremely good point.)
 
Say, nonpartisan, you’re a gamer, right? Surely you’ve learned that secret what with all your stealth missions and all.

rogerb on April 7, 2013 at 1:47 PM

The bloodiest ONE DAY military disasters…

——————————————————————————–

Apart from such bloodbath campaigns as Verdun and Stalingrad, the horrors of which went on for months during WWI and WWII respectively, which military battles throughout history, fought in a single day, were the most bloody?

The criteria used to decide this could be

a) The most men slaughtered
b) The importance of the battle in a historical context
c) The ease/stubbornness of the victory
d) The tactics/weapons used
e) The ferocity, brutality and lack of mercy of the battle

Two, amongst others, I would name are;

Cannae (216bc) – Over 50,000 Romans were butchered by Hannibal’s multi-national army in a notorious and inventive battle, due to the tactical genius of Hannibal, the third since he invaded. Not in the ensuing 12yrs did the Romans dare face him in pitched battle.

Stamford Bridge(1066) – King Harold II’s mostly housecarl/thegn army fast-marched over 200m north, surprised a huge Norse Viking invasion army near York (led by famous and feared warrior-king, Harald Hardrada) and in a bitterly-fought and brutal all-day battle of attrition, he slaughtered over 90% of the Norsemen so that “only 24 out of 300 longboats sailed home…”

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 1:49 PM

In fact, while acknowledging that this is completely speculative, if the government had gone in vindictively and yanked their license for no valid reason, I think Riverview would be all the more likely to be screaming to the rafters.

Maybe they don’t feel like they have enough fire extinguishers…

clement on April 7, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Why does one need a license to exercise their second amendment rights?

That’s the main reason why I do not have a concealed carry permit. I do not believe that the government has any right to interfere, that it is an infringement.

Just as it would be if I had to get a license or permit to write an article or publish a blog in exercising my first amendment rights.
Given the growing tyrannical nature of this Regime I wouldn’t and won’t own anything or any piece of paper registered with it that would mark me as a gun owner. And neither should you.

wildcat72 on April 7, 2013 at 11:11 AM

I’ve been into shooting sports for more than 20 years. And maybe (or probably) because I was young and dumb when I got started, I’ve only just now begun to realize how grossly raped we are being by our fascist government.

Things have to change. We have to start taking a stand.

WhatSlushfund on April 7, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Katy for the US alone, most consider Antietam the bloodiest single day. And it looks like the popular consensus for single bloodiest day overall is the Somme. Lots of mention of battles from ancient times though.

I know that Towton for the Brits got up to around 50K.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Without looking to antiquity, Katy, I’d say the the first day of the Somme.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:17 PM

I’m 99% sure you are right. Or Verdun?

katy the mean old lady on April 7, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Battle of Towton 29 March 1461

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2122067/Towton-worst-battle-forgotten-bloodbath-snow.html

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 1:55 PM

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 1:49 PM

I saw that site Rick. I think the point started as single day engagements. If you look at the entire Stalingrad campaign, I think you’re talking about closer to two million?

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:57 PM

the 2nd amendment was meant to allow citizens to form a credible militia that could fight a government tyranny

now, if you think citizens with guns can fight today’s military with their tanks, chemical weapons, fighter jets then you’re in some fantasy land

why don’t we allow citizens to own their own tanks or bazookas then? i mean, weapons dont kill people, people do.

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

This is where you and your ilk are so completely wrong. You have some infantile view of armed resistance, like those resisting would be lined up fighting the armed forces toe to toe, or that the armed forces would even be cohesive enough (after mass defections), or large enough to pacify the entire nation, or even a few states in open rebellion.

You have a simpleton’s view of an all powerful military capable of anything. That couldn’t be further from the truth. You also fail to see understand the lessons of insurgency that have been learned throughout the years, and trust me, people have been watching.. and learning.

Your lack of insight and your inability to understand the actual point your you are making is disturbing to say the least.

Our founders meant for us to be armed so that we could resist tyranny. Yet, you openly state that our military is so powerful, that the weapons we have would be unable to fight off said tyranny. Yet, you want to prevent us from having the weapons that we already have access to.

So in the end, you DO support government tyranny, and a disarmed populace that can do nothing to stop them.

What a winning hand you have there sport.

ShadowsPawn on April 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM

2nd Punic War
Battle of Cannae
50,000-90,000 romans dead in one day
6,000-7,000 Cartaginians

Must have been the Maxims hey Nonparitsan?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Think about the mindset one has to have to simply acquiesce
to government’s tyranny like ***partisan would. What a little pansy.
Scary.

CW on April 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM

O/T: Hey Hot Air, where is the link to MSNBC’s statement that children don’t belong to their parents?

HiJack on April 7, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Ahem…
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/04/07/we-have-to-break-through-our-kind-of-private-idea-that-kids-belong-to-their-parents/

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Maybe Verdun. Curious now.

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:44 PM

I think it would be difficult to answer this question definitively, because of differences in record-keeping and the distinction between killed and wounded. But…

The first day of the Somme was definitely a military disaster of epic proportions (75,000 casualties) made worse by the fact that the Allies didn’t stop attacking for months.

However, I suspect that the reason this question was asked in this thread was to make a particular point about guns vs. violence, so I’m going to guess that WryTrvllr’s answer to his own question is Cannae, where upwards of 50,000 Romans were killed (not just wounded…there were almost no survivors), and the Carthaginians did it without any guns at all.

Of course, in the time it took me to write this he has probably posted his answer. I will be interested to see if I am correct.

HTL on April 7, 2013 at 2:01 PM

I saw that site Rick. I think the point started as single day engagements. If you look at the entire Stalingrad campaign, I think you’re talking about closer to two million?

hawkdriver on April 7, 2013 at 1:57 PM

War is hell, that’s why we should never engage unless we are their to win. I never got to serve and admire most of you folks that did or are. I say “most” because of fools like kerry.

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 2:03 PM

You also fail to see understand the lessons of insurgency that have been learned throughout the years, and trust me, people have been watching.. and learning.

ShadowsPawn on April 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM

O’rly? Should the FBI be concerned about you?

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Must have been the Maxims hey Nonparitsan?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Just think if they were able to reload their magazines after emptying all of the rounds!

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 2:05 PM

why don’t we allow citizens to own their own tanks or bazookas then? i mean, weapons dont kill people, people do.

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM

Actually you can buy a tank, a grenade launcher, flame throwers, minguns and you can easily build your own bazooka. You’re not real bright. Americans will become very resourceful if it comes to that and your’re even dimmer than thought if you don’t think parts of the military would not join the resistance.

CW on April 7, 2013 at 2:06 PM

O’rly? Should the FBI be concerned about you?

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I’m quite certain that they would be concerned about the Founders and their intentions. Every single word that you type sets you against the founders and their intentions. I notice that you didn’t address the logical fallacy in your statements. Did I hurt your pathetic little feelings?

ShadowsPawn on April 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

And these can be yours as well.

http://www.usedarmoredvehicle.com/

CW on April 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Must have been the Maxims hey Nonparitsan?

WryTrvllr on April 7, 2013 at 1:59 PM

I read somewhere that the charge on Assault Magazine Hill in the Paintball Valley was an absolute massacre.

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 2:08 PM

O’rly? Should the FBI be concerned about you?

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Wow. You really are completely incapable of anything without getting your beloved gubmint involved. You are a sad, weak, useless creature.

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 2:09 PM

O’rly? Should the FBI be concerned about you?

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Did you read the articles I linked yet?

NotCoach on April 7, 2013 at 2:09 PM

STILL no mention of whether the shooter at Sandy Hook or in Aurora were being liberally dosed with SSRIs by their “mental health provider” prior to their ‘outburst’.

It’s almost as though everyone wants to avoid that. Odd.

Solaratov on April 7, 2013 at 12:17 PM

That’s what still disturbs me most – I think this is a huge coverup that needs a very hot white light shined on it. As a reflex, it’s my FIRST question every time we see a mass killing – “What psychotropic drug was he on?”

Harbingeing on April 7, 2013 at 2:09 PM

its absolutely hysterical(and a little disconcerting) how many hotair posters have seriously contemplated the implications of a civil war/resistance movement not as a hypothetical, but as an eventuality.

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 2:10 PM

Wow. You really are completely incapable of anything without getting your beloved gubmint involved. You are a sad, weak, useless creature.

VegasRick on April 7, 2013 at 2:09 PM

I love my country…didn’t realize that was a sin

nonpartisan on April 7, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Reminds me of the reality show “Gold Rush” which features three mining operations in Alaska and the Yukon. After the first or second season, all three were audited by the feds and summarily shut down for minor violations. One of the owners, who is in his 90′s and has operated his mine for over 25 years, had never seen them before.

Message: It’s dangerous to attract the attention of your overlords. Hell yes, tyranny. No benefit of the doubt necessary.

Hucklebuck on April 7, 2013 at 2:13 PM

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