North Korean army: We have final approval to launch nuclear strikes on the U.S.

posted at 6:01 pm on April 3, 2013 by Allahpundit

I blame Dennis Rodman.

Suicide by (global) cop?

In a statement published by the official KCNA news agency, the General Staff of the Korean People’s Army (KPA) said it was formally informing Washington that reckless US threats would be “smashed by… cutting-edge smaller, lighter and diversified nuclear strike means”.

“The merciless operation of (our) revolutionary armed forces in this regard has been finally examined and ratified,” the statement said…

“The moment of explosion is approaching fast,” Thursday’s statement said, adding that a war could break out on the Korean peninsula “today or tomorrow”.

“In view of this situation, the KPA General Staff in charge of all operations will take powerful practical military counteractions in succession,” it said.

Under normal circumstances this is gag material for “Team America 2″ but Ed’s right about the significance of the North kicking South Koreans out of the Kaesong industrial complex. That shows greater seriousness of purpose than usual. Question: Is there any way to deter them short of cataclysmic war? The Pentagon’s sending missile defenses to Guam to show Kim that his chance of hitting U.S. territory is even lower than he thinks, but that’s not really deterrence. If Kim fires something off, it’ll be in the course of fully committing to war with South Korea. He’ll have nothing to lose at that point by taking an extra potshot at America. Typically I’d assume that the way to rein in North Korea is to put pressure on China, but Chinese pressure on NK and Kim’s resulting insecurity probably contributed to the recent escalation. China won’t double down for fear of what Kim might do next. And if Japan and South Korea try to make them double down by declaring that they’ll go nuclear, that might spook Kim into an invasion of the South that he otherwise wouldn’t undertake.

At a minimum, you’d think that the saber-rattling of the last few weeks would put an end to negotiations with NK once and for all, but that could have the same “nothing left to lose” effect on the North Korean leadership’s war plans as regional proliferation would. What now except paying the danegeld again once they ask for it? Is there any sort of preemptive attack (short of a comprehensive nuclear one, which would never happen) that might take out North Korean artillery, at least, before it can do major damage to Seoul? I’m guessing no, and even if there was that wouldn’t stop a North Korean invasion of the South. What’s the game plan now, coach?

Update: Another X factor: What if Kim’s lost control of the military?

There have been defections of small units of North Korean soldiers to China – soldiers who were subsequently turned around and sent back to North Korea, says retired Brig. Gen. Russell Howard, former commander of the 1st Special Forces Group, which has an Asia Focus.

This may seem like a positive development, but it is a problem because it means that Kim may feel the need to reassert his control over the military, by beating the war drum and trying to get his troops to rally around it. The more he needs their support, the harder he might beat the drum.

That assumes that this is all for show. If Kim himself or his handlers fear that the military’s at risk of falling apart, whether through defections, deterioriating materiel, or for other reasons, then they may conclude that they have to attack South Korea now before they lose the capability altogether. And then there’s this:

The concern is that as a favored, privileged son, perhaps he doesn’t realize the seriousness of his actions. “This kid who they have as a leader now is perhaps starting to believe his own press,” Howard says.

“I was fairly certain that his father was rational – or at least had people around him that wouldn’t let him carry out these threats. His grandfather played it to the hilt successfully,” he adds. “I just don’t know with this young Kim.”

He’s young, quite possibly stupid, and also quite possibly drunk on the compulsory adulation he’s getting. All bets are off.


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Obviously Obama needs to go there and make a speech. It worked so well in Egypt after all….

geojed on April 3, 2013 at 6:05 PM

I think this may just happen. Gird away.

ThePrez on April 3, 2013 at 6:05 PM

World Class Fools Rule Badly.

May be the last orders these guys ever get unless its

“Put you head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye.”

APACHEWHOKNOWS on April 3, 2013 at 6:05 PM

Allah, Japan will never go nuclear. Nuclear weapons are scarred into their national consciousness in a way unlike any other nation.

Even with the existential threat of the Norks, it’s not happening.

KingGold on April 3, 2013 at 6:05 PM

War is sure looking more and more likely.

joekenha on April 3, 2013 at 6:06 PM

Why do we assume they intend to use missiles? Perhaps they will backpack a couple of small nuclear weapons across the Mexican border and bring them into Houston and Dallas?

We know far less about their bioweapons stocks.

slickwillie2001 on April 3, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Obama should just go take him out with his bare hands.

forest on April 3, 2013 at 6:08 PM

My wife gave me final approval to buy her the Hope Diamond.

pat on April 3, 2013 at 6:11 PM

Obama should just go take him out with his bare hands.

forest on April 3, 2013 at 6:08 PM

That dolt is too busy kissing up to North Korea’s allies, the Iranians.

That’s one reason why that fat punk thinks he can get away with this.

CurtZHP on April 3, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Sure you do.

thebrokenrattle on April 3, 2013 at 6:15 PM

He’s young, quite possibly stupid, and also quite possibly drunk on the compulsory adulation he’s getting. All bets are off.

Yeah, that Obama fella makes me nervous, too.

Wait – who are *you* talking about?

Midas on April 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM

begin launch sequence….

cmsinaz on April 3, 2013 at 6:17 PM

Just looking at the pattern here. I’m guessing they want more food.

DanMan on April 3, 2013 at 6:17 PM

Sure would be nice if we could finally end the Korean War. Just keep Hawkeye and BJ over there, please…

joejm65 on April 3, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Doesn’t Kim have brothers that were passed over for the Korean dictator job?
Perhaps the brothers are working with other military factions to overthrow Kim…

albill on April 3, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Someone should send him the Saddam hanging video.

meci on April 3, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Who exactly are the North Koreans going to get to deliver the nuclear warhead that they don’t possess, Federal Express?

IndieDogg on April 3, 2013 at 6:25 PM

Yeah, that Obama fella makes me nervous, too.

Wait – who are *you* talking about?

Midas on April 3, 2013 at 6:16 PM

Well played.

Purple Fury on April 3, 2013 at 6:25 PM

If they make a first move, turn it all into glass. There isn’t a lost generation or two in North Korea, it’s an entirely lost population.

CTSherman on April 3, 2013 at 6:25 PM

What makes you think the Chinese want to reign in the Norks?

Tell me again how we won the cold war???

WryTrvllr on April 3, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Just a reminder to ‘Lil Kim:

Nuclear Detonations Since 1945

Takes a while to get going, but by the 1960s, things are really starting to “hum”.

MichaelGabriel on April 3, 2013 at 6:27 PM

The longer this plays out the more chances of some dolt doing something stupid…….and there are a lot of dolt’s to go around.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 6:27 PM

I really don’t fear North Korea.

I do fear how Obama plans to use North Korea.

And for some reason, what the heck did Dennis Rodman say to this idiot and why did he really go over there?

JellyToast on April 3, 2013 at 6:31 PM

Japan HAS to go nuclear. In a sane world they wouldn’t, because the US could be relied on, but they have to see that (god-king) Barack HUSSEIN Obama has been at war with our allies and an aid and comfort to our enemies, and that the United States, thanks to our new Looter Majority are likely to follow Hussein with more Husseins.

wildcat72 on April 3, 2013 at 6:31 PM

That guy is possibly just full of himself to do something dumb.

And then there’s Kim too….

BacaDog on April 3, 2013 at 6:32 PM

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/japan/nuke/

davidk on April 3, 2013 at 6:29 PM

North Korea threatening a repeat of Hiroshima might just be enough to motivate them to change their tune.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Japan is forbidden to have nukes. If they have some it would be a very well kept secret.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 6:33 PM

NK will never bomb America as long as Rodman is still living in the USA.

nonpartisan on April 3, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Thank God John Kerry is on the case.

The real question around this is if we give Kim a face saving way out (and kick the can down the road) or let this turn into a shooting war.

If we had a president with nads I’d say let’s settle this now, but I’m not assured Obama will do what’s necessary to protect South Korea.

JohnTant on April 3, 2013 at 6:39 PM

And for some reason, what the heck did Dennis Rodman say to this idiot and why did he really go over there?

JellyToast on April 3, 2013 at 6:31 PM

“Hello” and just showed his passport.
Probably sent for same purpose by Zero.

WryTrvllr on April 3, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Japan is forbidden to have nukes. If they have some it would be a very well kept secret.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 6:33 PM

I believe Israel is too. Yeah….

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 6:41 PM

If we had sent Jim Carrey we’d be dead by now.

WryTrvllr on April 3, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Maybe we can preemptively EMP the Norks. It’s wouldn’t make a starving population materially worse off, but it might disable all military capacity. Or maybe not. Just kinda guessing here.

BCrago66 on April 3, 2013 at 6:44 PM

I have an idea: More UN Sanctions.

Those seem to always work.

torerodrizzle on April 3, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Kim Jong Un Fun Yun = Beijing Bluster Boy.

The NorKor Vunderkid will have to go first.

Austin, be prepared to evacuate all the Cupcake cantina trucks on Congress Street.

PappyD61 on April 3, 2013 at 6:51 PM

I feel so safe with Barack Obama. Isn’t that part of the deal for giving up our liberties? Safety and security?

rrpjr on April 3, 2013 at 6:51 PM

Japan is forbidden to have nukes. If they have some it would be a very well kept secret.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Who forbids it?

Oldnuke on April 3, 2013 at 6:52 PM

Allah wrote, ‘China won’t double down for fear of what Kim might do next.’

I’m sorry: ‘fear of what Kim might do next’? For all we know, China’s behind these latest provocations, nudging the latest Krazy Kim of Korea into directions they want him to go, urging him on behind the scenes. What, exactly, does China have to lose should war break out and Seoul is reduced to a heap of glowing ash? A massive flood of refugees from the North? Really? That’s the great threat China faces? Not much of a threat. Another phrase for ‘flood of refugees’ would be ‘influx of cheap slave labor’. And if it came to that, who says these refugees must be fed and sheltered? The Communist Party of China isn’t exactly known for its humanitarian impulses.

If war breaks out, South Korea, China’s greatest regional economic competitor next to Japan, would be devastated and taken off the board for the next decade, at least. A few very obvious troop movements around the Yalu River by the People’s Liberation Army, along with a few public statements about honoring their treaty with North Korea, would discourage Obama from taking the war North of the 38th parallel, at least in terms of ground troops.

No matter what happens, China wins. It’s a setup.

troyriser_gopftw on April 3, 2013 at 6:52 PM

On the upside, Texas will be a lot nicer without all the liberals in Austin ;)

LarryinLA on April 3, 2013 at 6:53 PM

A imminent North Korean nuclear strike on the US?

I’d be pretty damn terrified if I were in South America right now.

RINO in Name Only on April 3, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Time to pop in the remake of Red Dawn so I know how to deal with this!

ThePrez on April 3, 2013 at 6:59 PM

This is getting a bit dicey.

I’d be really worried if the Norks announced their intentions to sell their nuclear weapons. The old “fraternal brotherhood against the capitalist dogs and their lackeys.”

SteveMG on April 3, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Since the change of race the impreding rule of Azlan in California and figuring that LA is the closest target, I get to say it!!

Minorities Hardest Hit!

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Who forbids it?

Oldnuke on April 3, 2013 at 6:52 PM

The US and allies imposed a nuke weapon ban on Japan after WW2 with a weapons treaty signed in conjuction with their surrender. Japan is allowed to have a Self-Defense force with limitations on offensive capabilities. The Japanese have relatively small armed forces. Could they have nukes secretly? It’s possible but not likely.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 7:02 PM

The Japanese have relatively small armed forces. Could they have nukes secretly? It’s possible but not likely.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 7:02 PM

At least not without the U.S. in on the secret.

davidk on April 3, 2013 at 7:04 PM

A imminent North Korean nuclear strike on the US?

I’d be pretty damn terrified if I were in South America right now.

RINO in Name Only on April 3, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Or in a rowboat between here and there.

davidk on April 3, 2013 at 7:05 PM

Never Fear!
Jon Kary Reporting for Dooty!

Backed up of course by Urkel, the Gumby Doll POSPOTUS!

Hillary really did a good job and is totally qualified for the Dog Eaters seat too.
Duh!

ConcealedKerry on April 3, 2013 at 7:11 PM

Allah wrote, ‘China won’t double down for fear of what Kim might do next.’

I’m sorry: ‘fear of what Kim might do next’? For all we know, China’s behind these latest provocations, nudging the latest Krazy Kim of Korea into directions they want him to go, urging him on behind the scenes. What, exactly, does China have to lose should war break out and Seoul is reduced to a heap of glowing ash? A massive flood of refugees from the North? Really? That’s the great threat China faces? Not much of a threat. Another phrase for ‘flood of refugees’ would be ‘influx of cheap slave labor’. And if it came to that, who says these refugees must be fed and sheltered? The Communist Party of China isn’t exactly known for its humanitarian impulses.

If war breaks out, South Korea, China’s greatest regional economic competitor next to Japan, would be devastated and taken off the board for the next decade, at least. A few very obvious troop movements around the Yalu River by the People’s Liberation Army, along with a few public statements about honoring their treaty with North Korea, would discourage Obama from taking the war North of the 38th parallel, at least in terms of ground troops.

No matter what happens, China wins. It’s a setup.

troyriser_gopftw on April 3, 2013 at 6:52 PM

None of this is that hard to figure out.
If you were China.. and Obama just got elected for 4 more years.. what would you be doing right now? Obama getting 4 more years is 4 more years of opportunity. It’s very possible that a strong Republican could be the next President… so.. no point in wasting any more time.

China is going to get something for their help in pacifying North Korea. There’s something out there that China wants… some piece of land or something more insidious that China is going to expect in return for putting their little Kim Puppet back in their pocket. There’s going to be something.

JellyToast on April 3, 2013 at 7:13 PM

JellyToast on April 3, 2013 at 7:13 PM
Maybe they want there money back with interest or will settle for our nationalized parks Nationwide?

ConcealedKerry on April 3, 2013 at 7:19 PM

This is not going to end well…God help us.

JetBoy on April 3, 2013 at 7:20 PM

Ummm…I may just being a paranoid idiot here, but is it remotely possible that NK may have the covert permission of China to start a war? I mean, really…the time would be now. Our president is a weakling, our military weakened by this sequestrian crap, the Chinese own how much of our debt, and a united COMMUNIST KOREA would give the Chinese a springboard into Japan, Taiwan, and all the nearby islands…and then where? And it hasn’t escaped my notice that China and Russia are getting chummy. Should that be the case, NK doesn’t need long range nukes…China has them. And so does Russia.

Am I just being stupid?

And what happens if there is another Korean War? I am wondering if this wouldn’t be the time for the Islamic jihadists to finally wake up their sleeper cells here, when attention is elsewhere? And do NOT tell me they don’t exist…my sister was living in Dearborn MI during 9/11, and described to me how the Muslims were dancing and celebrating in the streets. Where you have a group of Muslims ANYWHERE, there will be at least a few jihadists in the mix, quietly supported by the rest.

Am I just being paranoid?

Somebody please reassure me…I’m getting a bit nervous. I’m seeing WWIII starting to unfold, and it ain’t a warm fuzzy feeling.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:21 PM

“The merciless operation of (our) revolutionary armed forces in this regard has been finally examined and ratified,” the statement said…

“The moment of explosion is approaching fast,” Thursday’s statement said, adding that a war could break out on the Korean peninsula “today or tomorrow”.

Krazy Kim III can’t hit the US with a nuke, and probably couldn’t even hit Japan, the way his missiles have been working lately. But this could be a signal that Nork artillery will soon start shelling Seoul, which is a threat any self-respecting South Korean needs to take seriously.

If Kim himself or his handlers fear that the military’s at risk of falling apart, whether through defections, deterioriating materiel, or for other reasons, then they may conclude that they have to attack South Korea now before they lose the capability altogether.

If military personnel have been defecting, the way to scare them is to fly surveillance missions just south of the DMZ with armed US fighter jets. Let the Nork artillery gunners see them, and they might think twice about shelling Seoul, giving away their position, and being blown up by a U.S. “smart bomb”, which have been extremely accurate in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some of them might come across the DMZ with their hands up and seek asylum in South Korea.

Steve Z on April 3, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Am I just being paranoid?

Somebody please reassure me…I’m getting a bit nervous. I’m seeing WWIII starting to unfold, and it ain’t a warm fuzzy feeling.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:21 PM

It’s bound to happen sooner or later. Too many hotspots. Too much debt around the world. Too many radical ideologies. Too many crazy or incompetent people in charge. Live your life as best you can every day regardless of the world events and get right with the man.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 7:27 PM

Sure hope the pot bellied pig knows where Wasington DC is at!

chicken thief on April 3, 2013 at 7:30 PM

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:21 PM

War is bad for business. There are strong economic ties between all the players involved here (except for North Korea). The US and China are huge trading partners and the first rule of good business is “Don’t shoot your best customer.” The US debt China owns is only worth something if China expects to be paid back with interest and if a war breaks out and the US says “What debt that we owe you?” then China loses big time. China and South Korea have a very strong relationship at present as well. Start a war and everyone loses money. If North Korea is crazy/stupid enough to do something then I think it’s them acting on their own and not because China is pulling the strings.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:30 PM

There have been defections of small units of North Korean soldiers to China – soldiers who were subsequently turned around and sent back to North Korea, says retired Brig. Gen. Russell Howard, former commander of the 1st Special Forces Group, which has an Asia Focus.

That must have been a real disappointment. I wonder if they got punished?

trigon on April 3, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Mr. Peace Prize ought to call their bluff and agree to talks. We’ve done so with the Taliban, why not with the North?

changer1701 on April 3, 2013 at 7:34 PM

But why do they want to nuke Austin? Don’t they know that half the people in Austin hate American as much as they do?

Alabama Infidel on April 3, 2013 at 7:35 PM

It’s bound to happen sooner or later. Too many hotspots. Too much debt around the world. Too many radical ideologies. Too many crazy or incompetent people in charge. Live your life as best you can every day regardless of the world events and get right with the man.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 7:27 PM

LOL…in my case it would be the Lord and Lady, and I’m not looking out my windows every free second, like some kind of crackhead, but I am starting to wonder. Do we really have a chance of losing, on the off chance I’m right?

All Pagans are not Liberal Democrats. The coven I belong to are all Conservatives. We did NOT vote for rat-ears. We voted for Romney, even though we had to hold our noses to do it.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:35 PM

sure ya do, Kimmy. Even if he is completely off his rocker and actually tries (which I doubt), there’s no way he actually has the capability to strike the US with a nuke. Nuke or no, he could probably do some decent damage to the South (artillery and all), but there’s no way the north korean military would be able to withstand the counterattack. Now, if, like in the Korean War, a bunch of chinese “volunteers” arrive to help because China doesn’t want American troops on it’s border, that’s a whole ‘nother ball game, and a very messy one at that. On the other hand, if he is just beating the war drums for domestic consumption, how on earth does he think he’s going to back down from this? I half expect him to try to convince his people that he’s actually pulled it off and nuked LA or something, and then tell the (north) korean on the street that the eeevil capitalists would never admit that they’d actually been hit.

AndStatistics on April 3, 2013 at 7:39 PM

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:30 PM

But what if the Chinese want to “own” the customer? Seems to me that would be more beneficial to them in the long run. And from what I am hearing, they are dying to try out their new “toys”.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Allah,

Typically I’d assume that the way to rein in North Korea is to put pressure on China, but Chinese pressure on NK and Kim’s resulting insecurity probably contributed to the recent escalation. China won’t double down for fear of what Kim might do next.

I think you are assuming facts not in evidence. First, that North Korea’s actions are something that China wants to stop instead of encourage. Second, that Buraq Hussein has some way to credibly “put pressure on” China after 5 years of his demonstrating what a goolie-less, gormless waste of protoplasm not only he is, but the country that re-bleeding-elected him is. Third, that in judging the costs and benefits of replacing that pudgy little third generation scion of tyrants; that the cost of taking over North Korea and dealing with it as their problem is something that they see as worth the trouble. Keep in mind, historically Chinese do not like Koreans, consider them subhuman, and do not care if they live or die.

American foreign policy, like its domestic economic policy, seems to be based on assuming that some good fairy will come in and a miracle will happen.

Subotai Bahadur on April 3, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Just imagine if South Korea were threatening to launch nuclear strikes on China.

VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Am I just being paranoid?

Somebody please reassure me…I’m getting a bit nervous. I’m seeing WWIII starting to unfold, and it ain’t a warm fuzzy feeling.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:21 PM

I’ll say this, I don’t think China will stand back and let the US bomb the DPRK into submission. They don’t want us in their backyard, so IF something happens and we’re dragged into it I do think there’s a good chance it turns into something bigger.

But, ultimately I think this is just more bluster from a child throwing a temper tantrum in order to get attention, so it would surprise me if they launch a full scale attack. More likely is some small scale maneuver that further escalates tensions, but doesn’t cross the line. They’ve tended to know where that line has been in the past.

changer1701 on April 3, 2013 at 7:43 PM

I don’t think North Korea does anything of consequence without China’s OK, if not explicit then implicit. It’s like the neighbor sicking his dog on you and then saying he can’t control the dog.

VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 7:44 PM

If you are going to start a war, early Spring is the time to do it. China frankly could not care less, they have a 25 million man army of males that can never find a wife due to demographics and NK is the perfect foil. Remember China never wants to wage war on her soil, that is why she surrounds herself with weaker vassal states, so war damage is always on foreign soil. If NK really launched, we would hit NK, leaving China untouched. China might want to occupy both North and South Korea and extend her influence to all the Pacific. Japan will act shocked and dismayed, but has only a defense force for herself and Barry would NEVER launch or start a serious war, so we would go to the…wait for it…UN to be shocked and dismayed. If China extends the war into Japan, there will not be a Tia-Fun this time to save her and the 1000 year conflict will be over finally.

If we sent a carrier group (we don’t have a “fleet” anymore) and it was mauled by just one nuke missile, we would look even worse, impotent AND too far away AND unwilling to war with China/NK. From Barry’s point of view, if LA is hit, what a perfect excuse to round up civilians with guns or political rivals under anti-terrorism laws. Everybody wins, except the White Americans, and the South Koreans.

This is what happens when you don’t FINISH a war. Someone tell Israel.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 7:47 PM

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 7:47 PM

Ack.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:52 PM

War is bad for business. There are strong economic ties between all the players involved here (except for North Korea). The US and China are huge trading partners and the first rule of good business is “Don’t shoot your best customer.” The US debt China owns is only worth something if China expects to be paid back with interest and if a war breaks out and the US says “What debt that we owe you?” then China loses big time. China and South Korea have a very strong relationship at present as well. Start a war and everyone loses money. If North Korea is crazy/stupid enough to do something then I think it’s them acting on their own and not because China is pulling the strings.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:30 PM

They said the same thing about Germany in 1936. “Germany is weak, in debt up to it’s eyes, the royals are all related, WWI taught us that was is too hideous to continue, there are all these interlocking treaties, Germany would be at war with ALL OF Europe!” etc.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 7:52 PM

But what if the Chinese want to “own” the customer? Seems to me that would be more beneficial to them in the long run. And from what I am hearing, they are dying to try out their new “toys”.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:39 PM

A shooting war of conquest against the United States? Don’t think so. First off China would really struggle to win it. They just introduced their first stealth fighter a couple years ago based off parts reverse engineered from a captured F117; that’s 30 year old technology that we’ve now retired. They don’t have carrier groups to project power across the Pacific like we do. We have about ten times the nuclear arsenal they do. Winning that kind of war would be VERY difficult so they’re not going to “own” us, and if they did there wouldn’t be much left to own. And then they’re still out their best customer and their economy goes in further in the toilet than the war would have sent it. War with the United States right now doesn’t make any sense for them.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:54 PM

I always thought Japan was strategically pointless in the game of Risk….therefore it is expendable…..lol

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 7:54 PM

And then they’re still out their best customer and their economy goes in further in the toilet than the war would have sent it. War with the United States right now doesn’t make any sense for them.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:54 PM

It makes sense if they’re in bed with the Russians.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Sounds like they’re about to drown themselves in a tsunami of words.

dissent555 on April 3, 2013 at 7:57 PM

They said the same thing about Germany in 1936. “Germany is weak, in debt up to it’s eyes, the royals are all related, WWI taught us that was is too hideous to continue, there are all these interlocking treaties, Germany would be at war with ALL OF Europe!” etc.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 7:52 PM

Reparations and their deleterious effects on an economy are an incentive for war for the debtor, which was Germany before World War II. When you’re in another shooting war you’re not going to be sending a check to the other side to honor your debts. China wants us to honor our debts so why shoot at us and give us a reason not to?

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:59 PM

It makes sense if they’re in bed with the Russians.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 7:56 PM

Why would they do that? China and Russia didn’t even like each other when they were both communist.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:00 PM

We have about ten times the nuclear arsenal they do.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Not true. China’s nuclear arsenal is 7 times larger than previously thought.

troyriser_gopftw on April 3, 2013 at 8:01 PM

The new South Korean President has laid her prestige on the line saying she will retaliate militarily. She cannot simply pay the Danegeld if North Korea takes a military action. She will feel obliged to make some military response even if invasion of the North is impractical.

KW64 on April 3, 2013 at 8:03 PM

Yeah.. if war actually breaks out we’re pretty well screwed.

And yes… China is behind this. Heck.. there are reports they’ve got troops amassing at the border side by side with the North.

And who is in charge over here? Obama. Freaking wonderful.

JellyToast on April 3, 2013 at 8:06 PM

Good info from VOA (Steve Herman) on what might be up with NK, here:

http://www.voanews.com/content/decoding-north-korea-kim-jong-un/1634053.html

Bottom line:

Nobody knows for sure, but NK *might* be trying to rattle the Chinese a bit, to get *them* to be more accommodating to the Norks. Also, NK analysts suspect something — nobody knows what, exactly — is happening internally to cause the additional bluster & provocation.

Purple Fury on April 3, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Why would they do that? China and Russia didn’t even like each other when they were both communist.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:00 PM

I’m not trying to be argumentative with you, but has it it escaped you that the Chinese and the Ruskies had a very nice friendly get together recently?

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 8:08 PM

.
Let’s see:
.
1. China has various internal problems, and has for years, and they’re becoming more severe, and a diversion might be nice,
.
2. Kim the Chubby is just now starting puberty (at 29) and is acting like most 10 y.o. boys act,
.
3. As a result, China is massing more than a few troops on the Yalu,
.
.
Historically, Korea has spent very much time as a Chinese vassal, or even part of China.
.
The probability that China wants to see a unified Korean peninsula, unified under South Korean control, is right around zero. In fact it’s unlikely that China wants to see South Korean control extend past the DMZ.
.
Rolling a few Chinese divisions to Pyongyang solves many problems.
.
China can conceivably stay there for ever; hunting Kim and fixing the problems there will take at least 50 years, and settling 20 million Chinese (humanitarian-aid-workers, construction battalions, police, extra single men …) there would pacify the area nicely … and relieve some internal pressure on China.
.
What are the odds?
.

Arbalest on April 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 8:08 PM

And THAT did NOT fill me full of warm fuzzies.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM

We have about ten times the nuclear arsenal they do.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 7:54 PM

Not true. China’s nuclear arsenal is 7 times larger than previously thought.

troyriser_gopftw on April 3, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Even if this is correct (and I don’t claim to know whether it is or it isn’t) we’ve still got them about doubled. Certainly enough for a little mutually assured destruction. It would still be a monumentally stupid decision for China to try anything.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:10 PM

They don’t have carrier groups to project power across the Pacific like we do. We have about ten times the nuclear arsenal they do. Winning that kind of war would be VERY difficult so they’re not going to “own” us, and if they did there wouldn’t be much left to own.

We don’t have a lot of carrier groups, either. Plus, how many planes can we fly off a carrier at one time? 100? 200? China can launch from every base, along with hundreds of silkworm missiles and her new sub fleet. If we got into a serious war with China/NK, do you think our new gay friendly, Diversity loving, multilingual, newly integrated and feminized Navy can stand toe to toe with the NK/Chinese Navy and Land based anti-ship missile armada? Do you think middle America is going to send thousands or millions of their children off to another Pacific War with Barry waving the flag? We beat Japan at the crowning of her industrialization, but we LOST for the first 2 years. I don’t think we have the Patriotism, Naval forces or leadership to win another Pacific conflict.

WE are the ones that can not extend our power over the Pacific anymore.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:10 PM

And THAT did NOT fill me full of warm fuzzies.

sage0925 on April 3, 2013 at 8:09 PM

And we have friendly get-togethers with China all the time as well. I don’t think being friendly with a nuclear armed nation with which you share a giant border does not equate to plotting the destruction of the United States.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:14 PM

And we have friendly get-togethers with China all the time as well. I don’t think being friendly with a nuclear armed nation with which you share a giant border does not equate to plotting the destruction of the United States.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:14 PM

“We, the German Führer and Chancellor, and the British Prime Minister, have had a further meeting today and are agreed in recognizing that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for our two countries and for Europe.
We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again. We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe.”

Chamberlain read the above statement in front of 10 Downing St. and said:

“My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour.
I believe it is peace for our time…
Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.”

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:19 PM

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:10 PM

I have absolute confidence in the US Navy to do their jobs regardless of who the Commander in Chief is. And if we’re farther along in that launching drones off of carriers program than we’ve publically let me known then that tips the balance of power again.

If we’re in a shooting war with another nuclear-armed nation and the political party of the president makes a bit of difference to you then you need your freaking head examined. I can’t stand Barry but let’s not let out hyperbolic rhetoric cloud things too much.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:19 PM

So Russia and China are going to start shooting at each other?

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:21 PM

Well, this is one way to stop that nasty ol’ sequestration crap.

HiJack on April 3, 2013 at 8:33 PM

I have absolute confidence in the US Navy to do their jobs regardless of who the Commander in Chief is. And if we’re farther along in that launching drones off of carriers program than we’ve publically let me known then that tips the balance of power again.

If we’re in a shooting war with another nuclear-armed nation and the political party of the president makes a bit of difference to you then you need your freaking head examined. I can’t stand Barry but let’s not let out hyperbolic rhetoric cloud things too much.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:20 PM

I am sorry, but I don’t. They will “do their job” but we are not on a war footing at all. most of our nuke arsenal is being decommissioned and I don’t think we have a live one in the tubes anywhere. Storage, sure…but ready to go, no.

I don’t think we have a double super secret missile program that can be up and ready in a few weeks or even a few months. Maybe, but I KNOW that the Boeing based Airborne laser 747 is sitting in a hanger covered in dropcloths because Barry killed the program in 2009. I know, I am in Seattle.

Further, We might be really angry at NK, but ready to destroy them AND China and then engage them, all over NK? No. Further, China would call our debt and refuse dollars, which would cause a Stock market crash that would make 1929 look like a hiccup, a financial conflagration that would take Europe down as well.

We would bluster and scream and snort, but if they invaded Japan, do nothing.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:34 PM

I don’t think North Korea does anything of consequence without China’s OK, if not explicit then implicit. It’s like the neighbor sicking his dog on you and then saying he can’t control the dog.

VorDaj on April 3, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Agreed, Red China is behind this 100%.

slickwillie2001 on April 3, 2013 at 8:37 PM

We don’t have a lot of carrier groups, either. Plus, how many planes can we fly off a carrier at one time? 100? 200? China can launch from every base, along with hundreds of silkworm missiles and her new sub fleet. If we got into a serious war with China/NK, do you think our new gay friendly, Diversity loving, multilingual, newly integrated and feminized Navy can stand toe to toe with the NK/Chinese Navy and Land based anti-ship missile armada? Do you think middle America is going to send thousands or millions of their children off to another Pacific War with Barry waving the flag? We beat Japan at the crowning of her industrialization, but we LOST for the first 2 years. I don’t think we have the Patriotism, Naval forces or leadership to win another Pacific conflict.

WE are the ones that can not extend our power over the Pacific anymore.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Hmmm. We have 10 extremely well trained Carrier Battle Goups (includes Destroyers/Frigates/Cruisers and Supply ships). Each Carrier has approximately 80 aircraft. We have 15 Amphibious Assualt Carriers each with approximately 24 aircraft. The Chinese have one newly commissioned still undergoing sea trials. We are the ONLY nation that can project MASSIVE naval power anywhere in the world…….at anytime. We did not lose the firt two years of WW2 to the Japanese. Our Aircraft Carriers decimated the Japanese Carriers at the Battle of Midway six months after Pearl Harbor and we never looked back.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 8:38 PM

Japan is forbidden to have nukes. If they have some it would be a very well kept secret.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 6:33 PM

I believe Israel is too. Yeah….

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 6:41 P

No. Israel is not forbidden to have nukes.

Japanese law forbids their development…Israel has no such law.

Solaratov on April 3, 2013 at 8:42 PM

The US and allies imposed a nuke weapon ban on Japan after WW2 with a weapons treaty signed in conjuction with their surrender. Japan is allowed to have a Self-Defense force with limitations on offensive capabilities. The Japanese have relatively small armed forces. Could they have nukes secretly? It’s possible but not likely.

dddave on April 3, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Well, Japan does have that hollowed out volcano with the fake steel lake that was used to snatch U.S. and Russian space capsules back in the sixties. They could easily use that to build some of them there nukies. My father and my uncles used to say long ago that the only good Jap… /

HiJack on April 3, 2013 at 8:44 PM

I am sorry, but I don’t. They will “do their job” but we are not on a war footing at all. most of our nuke arsenal is being decommissioned and I don’t think we have a live one in the tubes anywhere. Storage, sure…but ready to go, no.

I don’t think we have a double super secret missile program that can be up and ready in a few weeks or even a few months. Maybe, but I KNOW that the Boeing based Airborne laser 747 is sitting in a hanger covered in dropcloths because Barry killed the program in 2009. I know, I am in Seattle.

Further, We might be really angry at NK, but ready to destroy them AND China and then engage them, all over NK? No. Further, China would call our debt and refuse dollars, which would cause a Stock market crash that would make 1929 look like a hiccup, a financial conflagration that would take Europe down as well.

We would bluster and scream and snort, but if they invaded Japan, do nothing.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:34 PM

If China calls our debt during the course of a shooting war we laugh in their faces. Once again, creditors (China) don’t start wars with their debtors (us). Storekeepers (China again) don’t start wars with their best customers (us again). They would take themselves down with us. I’m not saying that if things really spiraled out of control that it’s not impossible for a big war to start but I don’t think that China is actively looking for it.

Also don’t forget one of the more interesting things to come out of the Wikileaks cables.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-cables-china-reunified-korea

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:47 PM

If we’re in a shooting war with another nuclear-armed nation and the political party of the president makes a bit of difference to you then you need your freaking head examined. I can’t stand Barry but let’s not let out hyperbolic rhetoric cloud things too much.

alchemist19 on April 3, 2013 at 8:20 PM

When you take a position, you just dig in, don’t you? You throw up that ‘We’ve got 10 times the nuclear arsenal they do’. When your statement is refuted–or at least its absolute certainty is thrown in doubt, then you come back with, ‘Oh yeah? Well, we’ve still got them almost doubled’.

It doesn’t matter that ‘we’ve still got them almost doubled.’ Concede the point: we don’t know with any certainty how many nukes the Chinese have. Given the sorry state of our intelligence community, we will probably never know until the birds are in the air. Further, the number of nukes in the Chinese arsenal is not a primary consideration here, not in this situation. MAD doesn’t apply because we’re dealing with a spectrum, ranging from cyberwar to conventional to nuclear and all points in-between.

My point is that there’s a strong chance the Chinese are the silent senior partner driving North Korean provocations. The only major problem they face if war breaks out are an influx of North Korean refugees, which isn’t a problem at all if China is willing to let all or most of them freeze or starve.

You also keep claiming the Chinese wouldn’t involve themselves in a regional conflict for economic reasons, because they would lose hold over the US debt they own, etc. As others have pointed out, wars are often irrational, fought for reasons completely at odds with national self-interest.

troyriser_gopftw on April 3, 2013 at 8:47 PM

That must have been a real disappointment. I wonder if they got punished?

trigon on April 3, 2013 at 7:34 PM

Oh, probably just confined to barracks.

And then the barracks were sit on fire.
Those trying to escape the flames were shot.

Solaratov on April 3, 2013 at 8:50 PM

WE are the ones that can not extend our power over the Pacific anymore.

Bulletchaser on April 3, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Dude, we have more carrier battle groups than the rest of the world combined.

cozmo on April 3, 2013 at 8:53 PM

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