“Walking Dead” season finale somehow pretty watchable

posted at 10:01 pm on April 1, 2013 by Allahpundit

So many things to be thankful for in last night’s episode. We were spared the cloying agony of a Glenn/Maggie wedding ceremony; the show’s most annoying character finally bought it, in unsuitably heroic fashion; and the lame contrivance of Rick having visions of Lori appears, mercifully, to be over. Little Carl’s getting more interesting by the week, too. Shooting that kid in the face proves that he’s well on his way to Shane-dom, and maybe eventually to becoming a Governor himself. (Carl’s “I did what I had to do” speech mirrored in some ways the Governor’s speech in the opening scene to Milton or Myron or whatever his name was.) I wonder if the writers have the stones to turn Rick and Carl against each other next season, with Rick forced to put down the Frankenstein he’s created in order to keep himself and the group safe.

The only disappointment was the Governor’s story arc. His journey from caretaker of an oasis in a world gone mad to eccentric warlord to crazed dictator who’ll kill anyone who defies him is so heavy-handed a lesson on how power corrupts that now he feels like a character in an especially preachy “Twilight Zone” episode. Only two paths left to him. Either he reemerges next season as a supervillain and dies in a climactic battle with superhero Rick (or, more likely, Michonne) or he goes the Darth Vader route and somehow regains his moral bearings at a decisive moment and sacrifices himself to save the rest of the cast. I’ll bet on number two. As with Merle, we’ve spent too much time with him to see him die in a way that’s less than grand. But in case there’s any doubt, yes, he’ll be back next year.

I’m embarrassed to admit it but I thought the final scene of Rick taking in the Woodbury refugees was kind of sweet, and a fine opportunity to inject some new blood into the cast. Assuming Carl doesn’t murder them all in their bunks in the first episode, I mean. Two exit questions for you. One: Why did Andrea waste precious seconds chit-chatting with a dying Milton/Myron instead of concentrating on the handcuffs? I could understand talking to him while you’re busy with the cuffs, to try to keep him conscious, but she actually paused to do it. What? Two: What exactly happened during the Governor’s raid on the prison? Rick’s gang lied low while the Woodbury crew entered the prison, then Glenn and Maggie ambushed them. But, er, why just Glenn and Maggie? Wasn’t the rest of the gang right there, in hiding, while they shot it out with the Governor’s men? Why didn’t they help? Or did I miss something?


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Comment pages: 1 2

Allah:
1. Andrea’s scene was just stupifying. You stop to chat with a man who’s going to die, hence he’s going to seek to rip your flesh off your living bones. Not bright, but at least you finally get to commit suicide Dale stopped you from doing back at the CDC.

2. It would be poetic justice for Rick or Michonne to quote the following to the Gov before he gets whacked:
Ezekiel 25:17. “The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the
tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through
the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike
down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you!

1,000,000 internet points to whomever knows the reference. It’s a classic.

JP1986UM on April 2, 2013 at 12:40 AM

pulp fiction??

El_Terrible on April 2, 2013 at 12:41 AM

In fact the old guy told him to “drop it,” but the teen kept moving forward!

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:29 AM

No, he immediately stopped.

He was ordered to drop it, not advance and hand the weapon over.

To imagine otherwise is delusional.

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:33 AM

To imagine he advanced and was not surrendering his weapon is delusional. He immediately stopped and never moved a foot forward as soon as he saw Herschel and Carl. I suggest you rewatch it.

Seriously, this is why eye witness testimony is so suspect.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 12:43 AM

For the record, the kid never pointed “the business end” of his weapon at Herschel or Carl.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 12:46 AM

1. Andrea’s scene was just stupifying. You stop to chat with a man who’s going to die, hence he’s going to seek to rip your flesh off your living bones. Not bright, but at least you finally get to commit suicide Dale stopped you from doing back at the CDC.

I’d gotten the impression that she had pretty much given up any hope at the point when the Gov and Milton bust into the room.

Once you make that kind of decision it’s going to take more than a little push to move back towards desperate attempts at escape. So I gave the scene a pass in my book.

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:46 AM

To imagine he advanced and was not surrendering his weapon is delusional. He immediately stopped and never moved a foot forward as soon as he saw Herschel and Carl. I suggest you rewatch it.

Seriously, this is why eye witness testimony is so suspect.

Blake on April 2

Hey Blake,

Please walk up to a LEO with a loaded firearm and see if he asks you to drop it, or advance and hand it over.

For bonus points, advance towards him no matter what he says and then report back.

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:46 AM

JP1986UM on April 2, 2013 at 12:40 AM

Pulp Fiction. Does anyone not know that?

alchemist19 on April 2, 2013 at 12:46 AM

Just rewatched the scene in question… was about 12 seconds from the time the guy was told to drop it, to when Carl shot. The guy didn’t take steps forward, but did lean forward.

El_Terrible on April 2, 2013 at 12:48 AM

Hey Blake,

Please walk up to a LEO with a loaded firearm and see if he asks you to drop it, or advance and hand it over.

For bonus points, advance towards him no matter what he says and then report back.

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:46 AM

Once again, the kid never advanced. He stopped dead in his tracks and never pointed the rifle at them.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Once again, the kid never advanced. He stopped dead in his tracks and never pointed the rifle at them.

Blake

Bullshit. He kept moving.

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:49 AM

1. I’m glad Andrea’s gone.

2. Carl shot the kid because he could. He was pissed off about the attack and wanted revenge.

Wendya on April 2, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Just as Han Solo was correct for shooting Greedo first, Carl’s decision to shoot the kid was the correct one.

“The unidentified white male, known to be a member of a hostile force, failed to follow clear, repetitive verbal commands to “drop his weapon” and continued to advance on Carl’s position with a loaded weapon in his hand. While advancing, he attempted to use verbal distraction techniques in an effort to get close enough to Carl that he could assault him or one of the individuals Carl was responsible for protecting. Carl fired in order to eliminate a threat to his life and to the lives of a crippled septugenarian, unarmed female teenager, and an infant.”

That’s how my use of force report would have been written up, anyway.

Dukeboy01 on April 2, 2013 at 1:47 AM

Even though simple minded people like Allahpundit might think that Carl did the wrong thing by shooting that guy, I think he did the right thing. First, the guy in Carl’s mind wasn’t a “kid”. He was probably 2-3 years older then Carl. And he was a soldier on a mission to kill him and his peeps. And he took too long to actually put down the weapon.

Carl also knew that even though he had the numbers, he knew they were very weak numbers. A crippled old man and a young women who had never shot a gun. And Carl knows how most percieve him to be a little kid when they first meet him too. All hiding in the woods. And Carl could see the guys wheels turning right before he shot him. The guy was evaluating the situation just a little too much. He wasn’t scared enough looking. The guy probaby shoots the old man 1 second later, then goes for the little kid second and the girl third. Carl could see that as a very real likelyhood.

Carl shot him at the perfect time. Carl hasn’t made a bad move all season.

KMav on April 2, 2013 at 1:49 AM

The Woodbury refugees should be source of friction in the next season, and not just as uninvited guests to Glenn and Maggie’s wedding (oh, the seat arrangement horror!). It’s likely that plain old communicable diseases will force the overwhelmed, able-bodied of Rick’s group out from the prison’s hygiene hell of close-quarters, water-free living. Then, the Guv can toy with them in the woods, guerilla-style.

derit on April 2, 2013 at 1:49 AM

You know, when Merle refused to drop the gun when he came upon Maggie and Glenn, I was SCREAMING at the screen, “KILL HIM! don’t let him get close!” Frankly, I don’t see a difference in this situation: You just saw this guy was in a group to come in and kill everyone you know and/or love. He breaks off and accidentally comes across you.

Hershel has the benefit of years of experience to assess the situation. Carl, however, has limited experience, and what little experience he DOES has tells him you will regret showing mercy.

Snitchmo on April 2, 2013 at 2:05 AM

You truly are a piece of…work.

catmman on April 1, 2013 at 11:11 PM

Look, you started it. If you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all. (Good God I sound like my father!)

Bulletchaser on April 2, 2013 at 2:15 AM

my question has been..where did the governor and his two henchmen go?

they obviously didn’t go back to woodbury..they would have gotten there long before rick’s group did.

I honestly think 1st few episodes of the next season will be him rounding up walkers, similar to how merle did, but on a larger scale, and leading his new “army” to the prison.

warhorse_03826 on April 2, 2013 at 2:20 AM

He was a kid.

So is Carl. And as we know, Carl the kid ain’t above killing. No reason for Carl to believe this kid was either.

xblade on April 2, 2013 at 2:20 AM

The Woodbury refugees should be source of friction in the next season

derit on April 2, 2013 at 1:49 AM

Yeah, just think about the looming conflict about what to call the zombies. Will Walkers or Biters be the correct nomenclature? The Woodbury refugees have the numbers, but Rick’s group has the guns.

I thought of this while watching The Talking Dead, and hearing Tyrese still call them Biters after the episode where they joined forces aired.

James on April 2, 2013 at 4:21 AM

Not sure what show you were watching…The Governor was always shown as being a villain and a straight bad guy. Don’t you remember him taking out the military convoy and killing the survivors? The only people who thought he was good, ever, were those who didn’t know him. In the comics its shown that Carl is pretty much at risk of growing up to be a serial killer and psychopath…in the show he’s becoming someone who is being cold on purpose to possible be the shepherd of the flock in the future, whether they are willing or not.

Sammo21 on April 2, 2013 at 4:30 AM

Actually, the point about Maggie and Glenn being the only apparent active defenders of the prison points to what I think is a major editing fail. Along with the Woodbury survivors inexplicably deciding to just go along to the prison with the people they’ve been taught were psychopathic killers.

Oops, I may have just have jumped to conclusions. Perhaps the Woodbury survivors’ trip to the prison wasn’t all that voluntary…

kd6rxl on April 2, 2013 at 4:39 AM

One: Why did Andrea waste precious seconds chit-chatting with a dying Milton/Myron instead of concentrating on the handcuffs?

A better question would be how did Andrea get herself out of two pair of handcuffs with a pair of pliers?

Or, Andrea had one hand free with a pair of pliers in that hand and couldn’t fend off one zombie by stabbing him in the head or eye with the handle end of the pliers?

The episode before, she fought off 3 zombies while pinned to a tree from behind.

This show is so unrealistic…

/

Hog Wild on April 2, 2013 at 6:43 AM

The shows weakest moments were always where it diverged from the comics. Now, with Andrea dead (whose actually Ricks current love interest in the comics) and the governor failing (where he succeeded at driving them from the prison in the comics), the shows officially off the rails next season.

Rainsford on April 2, 2013 at 6:45 AM

I am so relieved Andrea is gone! All her running around trying to play peacemaker between a psycho and the leader of a group still on hard times made her untrustworthy to both. Especially since she all but tricked Rick and the Gov to talk when neither was ready.

The Gov will be back, that’s true. But strikes me as a used car salesman (even his look reminds me of such) who finally got his chance to rise above his station in life. I doubt he’s going to let go of that dream any time soon. I think that sometimes power doesn’t corrupt a man. It instead reveals what’s already in there in the first place.

Carl doesn’t seem like Shane, because Shane was selfish and would sacrifice anyone or anything to get what he wants. Instead, I think Carl has become dangerously pragmatic. Still a wicked brew, given his age, when adults become that way.

Overall, though, the season ended quit well, I think.

Liam on April 2, 2013 at 8:16 AM

Remember the hitchhiker a few weeks back? How did leaving that guy to be zombie food affect Carl? What’s the difference between that and shooting the kid?

At least Carl knew that the kid was there with harmful intent. They didn’t know anything about the hitch hiker.

EricS on April 2, 2013 at 8:25 AM

So you just witness your “leader” gun down everyone in cold blood just because some chieck says “we’re not soldiers” and what do they do? Get in the front seat of the truck with him and ride off into the sunset?

Yeah right…

By the way, was the girl who spoke up the one who ended up surviving the slaughter by laying underneath one of the victims?

crazywater on April 2, 2013 at 8:28 AM

I was a little disappointed in the episode.

Carl was justified in dropping that Woodbury guy, he looked like he was trying to pull the same trick Rick did to Shane.

I didn’t really get the jail fight at all.

Where the heck did the governor go? I figured he’d either go back to the jail (since he killed everyone that refused to go back) or go to Woodbury. Where is he, out for some Taco Bell?

Most of the Woodbury people taken to the jail are senior citizens or young children who have little idea what it takes to survive in a world of walkers. Nothing but cannon fodder.

Why not trade the primitive conditions of the jail for the luxury of Woodbury instead?

I hope we’re not in for a season of angst in the jail.

jnelchef on April 2, 2013 at 8:35 AM

I thought the episode was anticlimactic. They did a lot of buildup, but no real payoff.

Yeah, Andrea was an annoying character (not as bad as Lori, but still bad). But she had potential as a long term member of the group as she was one of the few characters who took shooting seriously. I guess Laurie Holden has offers to move on to bigger and better things.

Merle had a lot of potential as well. I’m more sorry to see him go as I think the Daryl/Merle story arc could have been fleshed out a little more. Merle also had some of the best lines in the series, especially the “Aint wasting no bullets” line at the bridge. Michael Rooker just rocks.

I expected Herschel and Beth to go down in the prison assault. In the comic, Lori and the baby are gunned down by the Governor, and I kind of saw Beth in that role. She’s a minor character and the series could survive her loss–but the death of Lori and Judith in the comic really pushes Rick into insanity–but in the series he’s already there, so I guess that plot point isn’t that important.

I’m not sure where they’re going to go next season. The Governor will have to hook up with another group. Maybe Tonys people from ‘Nebraska’ would be a good choice, as it’s already established that their jerks….

PetecminMd on April 2, 2013 at 8:57 AM

Well, I seriously enjoyed reading all the comments on the Walking Dead weekly recap. I like the show (thanks to my son) and I thought the finale was pretty good. Carl scares the crap out of me though and I wonder when he and Rick will go at it next season and yes I will riot if they kill off Daryl.

jaimo on April 2, 2013 at 9:46 AM

Allah, Allah, Allah–so now the touching human elements intrigue you? I thought all the diologue was what you hated?

But I digress: I thought this was the weakest TWD finale yet. From the leak to Rolling Stone magazine that “27 will die” sending terror into fans hearts. To Andrea (who has become a zombie killing machine, with a knife no less) falling prey to the wimpy zombie of a wimpy guy. Yes, it was stupid to sit there and talk to Milton instead of free yourself. To the stupid plan of ambushing the Gov and his people only to…scare them? (Rick should thank his lucky stars that the Gov killed all his people rather than regroup and attack again)

As for Carl–he was right. Yeah, he is becoming more cold-blooded, but this was a game of killing the enemy, not trying to scare them away. And when you watch the scene where he and Hershel to “Drop the weapon” the kid doesn’t drop it. He might certainly have been planning to attack who he saw as an old man and kid. Carl was not about to take chances. He had done that before and it didn’t work out so well. (Dale and Lori)

Yes, the Gov will be back. Will he find redemption? I doubt it, he is not Merle, the abused boy who became a man who spouted racist rhetoric to keep people at arms length–he is the guy who murdered men and women he was sworn to protect on a whim. He is the Dictatorial nutjob who kept zombie heads in tanks and his zombie daughter in a cage. He is the guy who killed his best friend and supporter Milton and let him become a zombie all in order to torture Andrea by remote control. He is beyond redemption.

The Governor will die, and it will be sweet justice. The only question is if it will be via Michonne (now a more sympathetic character) or Daryl, who has sworn vengeance via the Redneck code, for his brother? At this point, I am betting on Daryl…in the finale of next season.

darkmetal on April 2, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Why did Andrea waste precious seconds chit-chatting with a dying Milton/Myron instead of concentrating on the handcuffs? I could understand talking to him while you’re busy with the cuffs, to try to keep him conscious, but she actually paused to do it. What?

It was a fitting action by a stereotypical do gooder civil rights lawyer sort. She was clearly potentially very smart and capable, but badly crippled by her long term mis-education.

As to Carl, I think he probalby did the right thing…for as many wrong reasonas as right ones. He does seem to be tetering on the cusp of going sociopathic. That will be a big story arc going forward.

krome on April 2, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Bulletchaser on April 2, 2013 at 2:15 AM

Actually, no. He did by going nuts on a pot I wrote in the headline thread about Andrea and determined I had a problem with woman for pointing out her deficiencies as a character.

I did some trolling on him in this thread just to mess with him and he accused me Of fondling children.

Now he wants to claim I used quotes about him, when they were clearing simply a bit of troll bait. It happens all the time on this blog and if you read the whole thread about how antagonistic he was to several other commenters who disagreed with him, you notice a bit of a trend there.

There is a certain amount of give and take we have as commenters on this site, a fair amount of good natured and sometimes not so good natured trolling. But even at its worst, mot people with a sense of decorum or hell, even shame know better than to throw around those kinds of comments about another.

Blake wants to equate the two incidents, saying that is did it to him first. Go back and read the comments I made, harmless bit of troll bait.

I’ve taken a lot of guff on this site from many people over many issues over the may years I’ve been here. I was poking a little fun and had a disagreement about some things about a character on a TV show and he accuses me of that.

I made my complaint as I would hope anyone else would do in similar circumstances. The admin will do what they will.

As for me, it’s over unless anyone else wants to tell me that poking a bit of fun at another commenter justifies being accused of fondling children.

catmman on April 2, 2013 at 11:08 AM

To imagine he advanced and was not surrendering his weapon is delusional. He immediately stopped and never moved a foot forward as soon as he saw Herschel and Carl. I suggest you rewatch it.

Seriously, this is why eye witness testimony is so suspect.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 12:43 AM

For starters, this isn’t a police situation. That kid was part of a highly armed force that stormed that prison (blowing up guard posts) with every intent to massacre everyone there – women, kids, etc. The prison residents staged a successful rout of the attack, and he turned tail and fled like a biatch.

He stumbled across Carl’s group and realized he stepped in it deep, so NOW he was Mr. “Let’s be civilized about this”. He was ordered more than once to DROP the weapon. He didn’t. He proceeded to “attempt” to hand it over to Carl, NOT drop it, and Carl, being younger, could have grabbed the gun, been pulled in by the gunman, and taken hostage. Carl, being the only one with a brain, dropped that guy like a bad habit, specifically because he DIDN’T drop the gun as ordered. As Carl said, in that instance, he couldn’t take the chance. If that kid didn’t want shot, don’t pull and armed raid of a prison.

That was a brutal staged assault in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, not a stop and frisk on the turnpike. Even if they take him into custody, they have the same issue as the one they had last year that they agonized three episodes over – what to do with a hostage?

It wasn’t a game of “tag” – the group was shiatting themselves in fear that the Gov’s men would massacre the whole group, and they had every good reason. By a miracle they turned the tide, and we ya do, ya don’t let up in that situation – drop them all and remove the VERY real threat, RIGHT NOW.

And then Carl gave his Dad a BRUTAL logical beat down that left Rick speechless – BECAUSE Carl was right.

Saltyron on April 2, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Saltyron on April 2, 2013 at 11:13 AM

You soulless right wing meanie!

Can’t you see our touchy feely betters are tryin’ to teach us liberal empathy.

cozmo on April 2, 2013 at 11:17 AM

catmman on April 2, 2013 at 11:08 AM

You are the one who started it by making up a quote and attributing it to me. Get over it.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 11:29 AM

The only problem I have with the episode is the tactics that Ricks group used at the Prison to attack the Woodbury Brigade.

The whole Brigade was lured into the cell block. Rick and Company could have locked them in the unit, then firebombed it which would have killed the Governor and the whole group.

Instead, they allow them to escape? The only person killed was the one Carl put down.

Really?

portlandon on April 2, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Saltyron on April 2, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Oh, please! Get the freakin facts right. He was a 15 year old asthmatic kid who had no or minimal training and was forced to go along. He was running away in fear. He stopped in his tracks, Herschel told him to “drop the weapon, son” the kid said “sure — take it” and was lowering it to the ground when Carl shot him.

He stopped dead in his tracks. He did not advance. He did not point his rifle at them. Herschel told him to drop it — once. Carl never said anything. Later, Carl told his father that the kid drew on it. That was a lie.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 11:47 AM

The Governor will die, and it will be sweet justice. The only question is if it will be via Michonne (now a more sympathetic character) or Daryl, who has sworn vengeance via the Redneck code, for his brother? At this point, I am betting on Daryl…in the finale of next season.

darkmetal on April 2, 2013 at 10:47 AM

I agree. Even though Rick is the main protagonist, it’s going either going to be an epic fight between the Governor and Daryl, or a fight between Rick and the Governor, with Daryl saving rick with a crossbow bolt just as the Gov is about to finish Rick.

I’m betting on the second one, and it’s going to be really ironic and end with something like Daryl shooting a crossbow bolt through the Governors neck and pinning him to the wall. Then leaving him there, pinned to the wall, knowing he’s going to die and turn, and be stuck to the wall for all eternity as the Governor zombie.

I like that. Maybe they’ll offer me a writing job…

PetecminMd on April 2, 2013 at 11:47 AM

I refuse to follow it, but my wife, daughter, son, and everybody else are fans. I see snatches of it as I read a good book and get distracted by all the screams and gunfire. My bet is Carl is taken in by the Guv as a prodigy, and then Carl tells the guy to look down the barrel of his 1911 with his other eye before he pulls the trigger! Glad October is several months away.

ultracon on April 2, 2013 at 11:49 AM

Can’t you see our touchy feely betters are tryin’ to teach us liberal empathy.

cozmo on April 2, 2013 at 11:17 AM

“Liberal empathy” gets one Andrea’s result in the milieu they live in.

krome on April 2, 2013 at 11:49 AM

When Carl returned to the prison, his father tried to hug him but Carl went stiff. Then Herschel told him that Carl had gunned the kid down. I think Rick realized he was raising a little psycho and part of the reason he brought the Woodbury people back was to re-socialize Carl.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 11:47 AM

Ya’ know, you went all postal about how you know all about it and everybody else makes a bad witness. Yet, you cannot distinguish between a rifle and a shotgun.

He stopped, but he didn’t drop the gun. He looked from Hershel to the kid and back. Sizing up his chances.

This is the same kid that was ready to take over the prison with his dad a few episodes earlier. It was Hershel, the kid and the girl his dad wanted to take out.

You don’t like it, too bad.

cozmo on April 2, 2013 at 11:56 AM

wtf is on the end of that gun, a golf club grip?

Midas on April 2, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Oh, please! Get the freakin facts right. He was a 15 year old asthmatic kid who had no or minimal training and was forced to go along. He was running away in fear. He stopped in his tracks, Herschel told him to “drop the weapon, son” the kid said “sure — take it” and was lowering it to the ground when Carl shot him.

He stopped dead in his tracks. He did not advance. He did not point his rifle at them. Herschel told him to drop it — once. Carl never said anything. Later, Carl told his father that the kid drew on it. That was a lie.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 11:47 AM

How did Carl know that he was a 15 year asthmatic who was forced to go along? Did he get the Gov’s memo? Did the kid give him a HIPAA? Drop his inhaler?

You put your knowledge in Carl’s place. You have to look at the situation from Carl’s POV, from what he would know at that time. Kid should have dropped the gun ASAP and put his hands up. No slow put down, no hand over, period.

Carl lied to his Dad to avoid a confrontation with Rick, to avoid shaming his old man with his feelings on Rick dropping the ball. But when Rick pushed it, Carl pushed back and called him on it.

Saltyron on April 2, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Just FYI, the guy who wrote Clear is the one who will be taking over the show next season so I’m holding out hope for the future.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2013 at 10:32 PM

That IS good news!

ShadowsPawn on April 2, 2013 at 12:14 PM

If you think that’s normal behavior for a surrendering person, then God help you if you’re ever in the same situation.

john1schn on April 2, 2013 at 12:00 AM

He was a kid. In fact, I think he was the asthmatic kid. He was doing what they told him to do. Again, he was placing the gun down and he was not pointing it at anyone nor did he have his finger on the trigger.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Oh good lord. First of all, it was near obvious that they shot that scene with intentional ambiguity to prompt this EXACT debate. The kid with the shotgun, who was not a soldier per se, would be expected to respond QUICKLY when faced with someone aiming a gun at his head. He did no such thing and was VERY slowly lowering his gun AS IF to hand it over, but in real time seemed clearly conflicted about should I or shouldn’t I ?

Additionally, the scene was shot from two perspectives that lead you to believe Carl was trained on the kid’s face, but since the two of them were never in the same shot together, you can’t really say. Not to mention that the kid with the shotgun was only partially shown in that shot AND Herschel was behind the vehicle AND the shot was on Carl when he shot, there is no way to know what the kid with the shotgun did immediately before the shot.

I personally thought Carl was justified with considering ANY of that under the circumstances, and taking any of that into account, he was more than justified.

What Herschel told Rick about it did not match what I saw, simple as that.

deadrody on April 2, 2013 at 12:36 PM

What Herschel told Rick about it did not match what I saw, simple as that.

deadrody on April 2, 2013 at 12:36 PM

Herschel was raised in a world with morality, laws, civilization. Carl in a kill or be killed world…a world that he’s already seen first hand what people who “surrender” or are let go to live another day are capable of. He did the right thing, he made the tough choice to protect the group; he just doesn’t have that memory of what pre-zombie land was like to make him feel guilty about it.

Andrea went out in typical Andrea fashion, too dumb to actually get herself out of a situation and instead wastes her time catching up and died because of it…bye bye.

nextgen_repub on April 2, 2013 at 12:48 PM

Carl MAY NOT have shot that kid if he’d laid the gun down as he was told. I was afraid he was going to kill Carl.

NotEasilyFooled on April 2, 2013 at 12:49 PM

1) Andrea was an idiot.

2)The kid didn’t drop his weapon, as ordered. He offered it to Carl, which was a sucker move to grab Carl and or his weapon. Carl did the right thing.

SurferDoc on April 2, 2013 at 1:00 PM

wtf is on the end of that gun, a golf club grip?

Midas on April 2, 2013 at 12:04 PM

It looks like a trumpet mute to me. Is it supposed to be a “silencer”? That would be ridiculous because one would be useless on any revolver except an old Nagant.

deadman on April 2, 2013 at 1:16 PM

The guy Carl shot would not “drop” the shotgun. Looked like he was gonna make a move on little Carl. I’d have dropped him too…

Glen and Maggie…have they EVER hit what they are shooting at?
They are starting to annoy me.

Fartnokker on April 2, 2013 at 1:27 PM

2)The kid didn’t drop his weapon, as ordered. He offered it to Carl, which was a sucker move to grab Carl and or his weapon. Carl did the right thing.

SurferDoc on April 2, 2013 at 1:00 PM

This is correct. Carl sees the world for how it has become. As far as he knew, the kid (1) had just attacked the prison with the intent to kill everyone there; (2) was now encountering Herschel (missing a foot), Beth (who Carl seems to have a crush on) and Carl (who the kid would see as a younger child and presumably less of a threat); and (3) had not put down his weapon and was handing it over while continuing to approach Carl. Carl pointed this out later by recounting to Rick that Dale, Lori and Merle were dead because of their failure to stop potential threats.

In fact, Andrea’s situation is a great contrast. She wanted to give the Governor a chance, and didn’t kill him when she had the opportunity to do so. This led directly to her own death.

It’s a hard world these characters inhabit. The rules of our society don’t lend themselves to the zombie apocalypse so easily.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on April 2, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Andrea had me yelling at the TV for being so stupid. Poor writing, poor acting, so unnecessary. Just have the guy die/revive faster.

Untrained troops do tend to huddle together in herd, however a cub scout troop could have executed a better ambush.

I would have shot the guy with the shotgun too, Carl did right.

Three going after 30? Please.

Governor gunning down his own army? Power mad dictator destroying his powerbase, pretty unlikely.

Such rich material to work with, yet the writers fail to make even very straightforward scenes halfway believable.

Rebar on April 2, 2013 at 1:39 PM

The two points in the story are the most maddening.

First Andrea was an idiot for a long time and her death is a relief. My son, who is the sixteen year old expert on all things Zombie and a good gunsman, also couldn’t figure out why Andrea had to talk to anyone until she was free.

Stupid, stupid, well just stupid. Frankly she’s done so many stupid things I think we can change the conversation a little to now commenting on someone doing something idiotic as “Hey man, you just did an Andrea!”

As for Carl. I do not understand anyone not getting why he killed the bad guy. The guy had just run up into the prison with the intent to kill Carl and his family and friends- without hesitation. Now the tables are turned and he expects mercy? Nah, not in the real world, which is where Carl is living more and more. That is what causes his dad problems. Carl “gets it”, Rick is still trying to live by rules of a civilization that does not exist anymore.

Also, as some of you have pointed out, the bad guy did not put the gun down. He continued to move forward while holding it and telling Carl to take it- which would put Carl within arm’s reach and make it easy to swing the barrel into him.

The fact of the matter is that action is and will always be faster than reaction. The bad guy would have gotten Carl, regardless of him getting killed for it. As a veteran police officer, I will tell you I would have killed him the second he didn’t drop the weapon. In the scenario on TV I would have killed him as he ran up.

Carl was right in pointing out that Rick’s desire to hold on is getting people killed. There is a balance between the Governor’s madness and Rick’s (and Dale’s) mammbe bammbe do-gooderism.

Let me tell you about this. People who are “civilized” like Maureen Dowd and the rest are what I call “zombie food”. When thing go bad, they’ll be like the character you see in the zombie movies who complain how THEY were impacted- unfairly- by the plague and how someone just has to come along and handle it for them. Krugman, Matthews and the rest are also fools. they will always end up eaten, and shocked by the act.

When this nation goes south, and it will, you will see the Dale’s, Andrea, Maureens and Krugmans piling up like chord wood.

This was a good final episode and I do agree with the author that Carl may just kill them all. As he had no problem leaving the hiker behind a few episodes ago.

archer52 on April 2, 2013 at 2:47 PM

I’m still trying to figure out how Andrea got re-captured by the Governor after she got him trapped in the warehouse with the zombies and she walked away. That episode ended there, and then the next episode the Governor shows up to kill Merle. We don’t see Andrea again until the finale when she’s already locked up.

SD on April 2, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Cosmo, you are confusing kids: Benjamin, I think is his name, is the kid that was in the prison with Tyrese, Sasha, and his dad. HE died last week, when he stepped in the way of Merle’s bullet for the Governor.

I’m not certain that the kid that got shot was Karen’s son, the asthmatic. Karen, the survivor, is the person that kills the Governor in the books, iirc.

As for Andrea constantly talking to Milton: that makes sense. If he’s just lying there, you don’t know if he’s dead and changing. The longer he talks, the longer you know he’s alive, the longer YOU are alive.

NOW, is it consistent, that Andrea couldn’t take him out with those pliers, what with all she’s done this season? nah!

Snitchmo on April 2, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Snitchmo on April 2, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Okay, they (third tier characters) mostly look the same to me.

Carl (this thread finally got me to remember his name) wouldn’t have known the other stuff even if it was the kid who had been there. That doesn’t negate the fact that the kid was ordered to drop the gun, he didn’t.

cozmo on April 2, 2013 at 4:54 PM

I’m still trying to figure out how Andrea got re-captured by the Governor after she got him trapped in the warehouse with the zombies and she walked away. That episode ended there, and then the next episode the Governor shows up to kill Merle. We don’t see Andrea again until the finale when she’s already locked up.

SD on April 2, 2013 at 3:59 PM

I suspect your DVR may have cut off prematurely. The Governor was shown recapturing Andrea at the end of that episode, right as she approached the prison.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on April 2, 2013 at 5:56 PM

I am surprised at how dumb people are about the Carl situation. He killed a kid who was surrendering. They are creating Carl to be a blood thirsty kid who has no mercy for anyone. The whole purpose of that scene was to show that Carl has started to go over the edge. So whether it was a justified killing or not doesn’t matter to me. But the shows creators are implying it was an unjustified killing so they can get the ball rolling for next season on how crazy Carl is becoming.

The Notorious G.O.P on April 2, 2013 at 8:06 PM

Incidentally, I just found out on imdb.com an interesting factoid about the actor, Scott Wilson, playing our kindly farmer-veterinarian Hershel. It seems he starred in another scary movie.

He was Robert Blake’s manipulatively homicidal partner in “In Cold Blood”.

Holy s***! That movie is why I have a .357 in my nightstand.

kd6rxl on April 2, 2013 at 9:08 PM

Snitchmo: “NOW, is it consistent, that Andrea couldn’t take him out with those pliers, what with all she’s done this season? nah!”

What’s inconsistent is that Merle couldn’t hacksaw through the handcuffs in Season One but Andrea could bust hers with pliers. Must not have been Peerless. But that’s getting obsessive about continuity/plausability.

kd6rxl on April 2, 2013 at 9:12 PM

What was the point of the shootout at the prison? They had a perfect setup with the townies inside the cell block. Why didn’t they just lock the doors in front of them ahead of time. Then set off the flash grenades behind them to drive them toward the locked doors, then lock the exterior doors. Thus trapping them inside a perfect kill zone to die. What they did didn’t really accomplish anything. If the Governor didn’t bail them out by going all psycho, in due time he could have convinced the townies to regroup and attack again. Or at least perform a series of incursions as they had done previously. I was disappointed by the entire episode. Next season better be outstanding to make up for, what I consider, a weak ending to a good season.

Zaire67 on April 2, 2013 at 9:23 PM

deadman: “t looks like a trumpet mute to me. Is it supposed to be a “silencer”? That would be ridiculous because one would be useless on any revolver except an old Nagant.”

Such a half-baked “silencer” isn’t useless in the zombie apocalypse. It probably would suppress the report enough to make it difficult for walkers to tell where shots were coming from and home in as they are wont to do.

In fact, that’s one issue I have with the finale. I was expecting it to resolve due to all the gunfire causing walkers from all aournd to home in on the Woodbury forces from their unfortified behind…

kd6rxl on April 2, 2013 at 9:31 PM

What, in the name of Davy Crockett’s sweat-stained buckskins is this continuing commentary on some ridiculous, Twilight-esque, zombiewank?

Are we courting the “16-year-old ambulatory necrophile fantasy nitwit-yet-conservative market”?

The ’30-something, self-neutered-Man-Boy’:”I’m an impotent, useless lump of gutless, coward, but if I had a gun and a zombie, I’d DO something, and shout a catch-phrase!” douchebag?

Geebus! Seeing this fetish-TV commentary in what used to be a serious, conservative blog, is as enervating and as embarrassing as coming across ads running a “Time to Honey-Boo-Boo’s Hustler PhotoSpread” betting squares racket in the sidebars.

NOTE:…An object that I expect seconds after you read this, and will sue your sorry asses for not buying me off when you steal it.

QUIT with the TV shows,sports and other crap!

AP, you diminish the brand to the point that I cannot and will not reference HotAir anymore for fear of someone saying: “Well yes! That was informed and convincing article, but, just below it was a studied article on “Walking Dead”, and frankly, if these ‘conservative butt-tools’ seriously have time and space for an opinion on kiddie-dumbshit-zombie-stuff-TV and actually include it regularly in their blogs…

…Well, You know, It’s obvious that HOTAIR is clearly a non-serious venue for idiots, TV freaks, necrophiles, fantasy-pervs and really, old boy… I think I’ll seek advice and counsel from the piss-stained, ranting drunk on the streetcorner.

And really? I can’t blame them.

AP. Drop the crap and get serious or seriously…

GTFO.

heldmyw on April 2, 2013 at 9:36 PM

heldmyw on April 2, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Lighten up Francis.

cozmo on April 2, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Zaire67: “What was the point of the shootout at the prison? They had a perfect setup with the townies inside the cell block. Why didn’t they just lock the doors in front of them ahead of time…”

I’m with you. It would seem a prison cellblock would be a perfect spot to set up such kill zones. But everyone with the slightest understanding of infantry tactics has been scratching their heads since day one, witness Allahpundit’s hostility towards the show. Why didn’t they do the slightest thing to fortify Hershel’s farm, fer instance? Given most walker bites are on the neck, shoulder and upper arm why no effort at the slightest bit of body armor? Just a welder’s leather jacket would be pretty functional in that regard. Etc.

kd6rxl on April 2, 2013 at 9:50 PM

GTFO.

heldmyw on April 2, 2013 at 9:36 PM

You first loser.

CW on April 2, 2013 at 10:16 PM

I am surprised at how dumb people are about the Carl situation. He killed a kid who was surrendering. They are creating Carl to be a blood thirsty kid who has no mercy for anyone. The whole purpose of that scene was to show that Carl has started to go over the edge. So whether it was a justified killing or not doesn’t matter to me. But the shows creators are implying it was an unjustified killing so they can get the ball rolling for next season on how crazy Carl is becoming.

The Notorious G.O.P on April 2, 2013 at 8:06 PM

So having a different take on this situation from you makes someone “dumb”? Come on, man.

So whether it was a justified killing or not doesn’t matter to me.

It matters a whole lot. That’s the point of the scene.

Throat Wobbler Mangrove on April 3, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Too bad we have no people in Hollywood. What an opportunity to present two surviving communities, Redburg & Blueburg,and why the first lives and the other dies. Frustrating.

dhimwit on April 3, 2013 at 10:08 AM

The ongoing bickering about Carl aside (it doesn’t take that long to drop a weapon and put your hands behind your head) is there a reason why the population of Woodbury moved into the prison when they had a nice fortified town to stay in?

Alberta_Patriot on April 3, 2013 at 11:37 AM

Woodbury needs a few dozen able bodies along its porous perimeter (remember both Michonne and Merle easily breaching it) as sentries,  but the prison, in comparison, is a hardened, concentrated facility, requiring only a handful of guards around it to sound the alarm if the Gov returns. 

In addition to the possible dangers of prolonged bunker life posed earlier, to this city-slicker’s eye, the prison’s yard area appears too small to yield enough crops for a population larger than Rick’s original group. 

If most of the Gov’s “soldiers” perished in prison, Rick put himself into a similar situation as the nursing home run by the hispanic gang in season one, consigned to a slow death until they either leave to save themselves or get reinforcements to hold more ground/retake Woodbury (if the Gov hasn’t torched it).

derit on April 3, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Maggie and Glenn did a good job of spooking the invading army into full retreat which was great payback to the governor for what he did to them. I am glad they didn’t outright kill the drafted civilian army due to they had no choice and no experience being there.

Plus….I wanna see their wedding!! I want a happy ending on this dark show.

As for Carl killing a surrendering fighter, that was not a good thing. Carl can no longer tell what mercy was.

dec5 on April 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM

Carl lives in a world wear everything has broken down. He watched his mother die and feels responsible for Shane’s death because of his inaction. Carl’s understanding of the world is understandably skewed. The real question is, would that kid have killed Carl if he had the chance? Yes. Sometimes art reflects reality; in some parts of the world a 12 year old with a gun is a soldier. In America, most boys become men at 40 after their done playing call of duty. That’s why this is so hard to for Americans to process.

stuartm650 on April 3, 2013 at 9:51 PM

kd6rxl on April 2, 2013 at 9:31 PM:

You can’t silence a revolver because so much sound comes from the gap between the chamber and barrel.

Molon Labe on April 3, 2013 at 10:00 PM

the show should be called “The Walking democrats” – the biters strike me as today’s democrat voters.

Patton531 on April 3, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Carl is born again hard. He’s one of three people on the show who have brains in their heads (and Rick ain’t one of the other two!)

alchemist19 on April 1, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Totally disagree. The kid is turning into a sociopath.

Rick is not an idiot.

And for everyone hating on Andrea – just stop it. I liked her character, and the actress who has the part (Laurie Holden) is a nice person. She didn’t deserve hounding and abuse she got from show fans on Twitter.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 4:48 AM

RizzyG on April 1, 2013 at 10:23 PM

For all the moaning and griping people did during season 2, I like the farm. I miss the farm. I also miss Dale’s RV.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM

Just FYI, the guy who wrote Clear is the one who will be taking over the show next season so I’m holding out hope for the future.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2013 at 10:32 PM

In some of the interviews this past week, the show writers said they will be doing more episodes like that, more character development, and making the zombies into a stronger threat.

Do zombies want gay marriage?

Rusty Allen on April 1, 2013 at 10:35 PM

No, they want brains – to eat.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:10 AM

Glenn and Maggie didn’t hit anyone.

Revenant on April 1, 2013 at 10:49 PM

I don’t think they were trying to.

Maybe I understood Rick’s strategy, but I got the idea they were trying to avoid killing most -or any- of the Governor’s side, because most were just regular Joe’s who didn’t realize what an evil guy Gov. was, and Rick was trying to spare them out of decency and so maybe later they’d figure out Rick isn’t an evil guy like Gov?

I think Rick & Co only wanted to scare Woodburites, not kill them (at least not the run of the mill citizens).

That was his strategy when he went to Woodbury at night with Michonne and Daryl and only those two people (Tyresse and the lady) were on guard duty. Rick came out with hands up to dialog with them.

The Governor’s “snapping” moment really wasn’t credible. He single-handedly guns down 30 people (all of whom are armed?) Really? No-one shoots back? He doesn’t miss any? None run away?

Maybe they were in shock.

Up to now, the Gov seemed like “Mr. Charming,” and he shook their hands and smiled at them in greeting each day in Woodbury, like it was Sheriff Taylor’s Mayberry.

Most of them didn’t know the man kept severed human heads in fish tanks in the privacy of his home.

Instead, he walks right into a sniper ambush — putting his people at risk.

Probably because he recognized that the guards on duty were Tyreese and the lady they had met earlier.

BTW — Carl’s shooting of the kid was entirely justified — being told to drop your weapon, and continuing to advance is a no-no. The Woodbury teenager saw 1) a cripple; 2) a girl holding a baby; and, 3) a child. The teen had a shotgun. No time to take chances.

Nope, not entirely justified. Hershel was there and saw that the teen kid was afraid.

You don’t know the motives of the Woodbury kid, that he was thinking, “Old man, cripple, baby, I can shoot the boy and then the old man.”

Maybe he was thinking, “The kid and the old man each have guns on me, and I don’t really want to fight. I better hand my shot gun over.”

It looked to me as though the teen was going to hand the firearm over.

If it had been me, I would’ve dropped it on the spot (rather than reach over, hand it across), but then I’m older and more mature than a 15 year old. Teens aren’t always known for having the wisdom to do the right thing, especially in a life or death/ stressful situation with a gun in their face.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:14 AM

“Maybe I understood Rick’s strategy…”
Correction:
“Maybe I MISunderstood Rick’s…”

Blake on April 1, 2013 at 10:56 PM

I completely agree.

Even the show is writing it in that way – Hershel was concerned, and later, Rick was concerned after Hershel spoke to him about it.

In interviews, the actor who plays Rick (Andrew Lincoln) has confirmed that.

He said that his character, Rick, is noticing his son, Carl, is turning into a remorseless kid with a cold heart, is too eager to kill, etc., and he said next season the writers said they want to explore that some more.

catmman on April 1, 2013 at 10:56 PM

I don’t know about “woman hater” but the hate against Andrea was, and remains unjustified and irrational. She was a decent person who tried to help others. She did not kill puppies for fun, but everyone acts as though she did. Enough already with the Andrea hate.

The Lori Grimes character was extremely annoying, but people hate on Andrea way more than they did Lori, which I don’t understand (and no, I didn’t even hate Lori).

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:20 AM

Herschel is an idiot. When you tell someone to drop a shotgun, and they start to hand it to you muzzle first, you drop them where they stand. No questions asked. Rick would have done the same thing. Any cop would.
fleiter

Blake, when someone with a gun to your head tells you to put down a gun you’re holding, you better get it done quick. Or you will be toast. You have to remember, this “kid” was with a group of killers hellbent on killing everyone in the prison.
john1schn on April 1, 2013 at 11:07 PM on April 1, 2013 at 11:06 PM

It was a fifteen year old kid with no background in police or military training. Please, give me a break.

Hershel is correct – and way more mature and has much more life experience than 12 year old Carl.

And, again, the actor who plays Rick explained in interviews recently that the show writers want to have this story line where Carl is turning more and more violent, which is troubling Rick – which confirms our take, our interpretation, that Carl was a wee bit too quick and easy with shooting a teenager in the face, that teen with a gun was indeed trying to hand it over, or Carl at least should’ve not been so hasty with a bullet to the head.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:25 AM

Cause Hershel is still emotionally stuck where Rick was in season one.

john1schn on April 1, 2013 at 11:34 PM

I don’t buy that. A person can be in grief but still have the ability to notice things and to reason. Also Hershel didn’t have visions of his dead family wearing white dresses like Rick.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:33 AM

um, no, they were actively shooting at him, Glenn and Rick. Not the same.

Hershel saw an innocent kid. Carl knew better. Most of the viewing audience knew better. Again, when a person with a gun pointed at your head tells you to “drop the gun,” you do it, or you get ventilated.

john1schn on April 1, 2013 at 11:43 PM

The point is that Hershel’s grief didn’t immobilize him or make him a vegetable in another stressful situation, which seemed to be your earlier argument.

Maybe the teen was innocent.

A fifteen year old who is scared with no former service in the military or police might do something stupid like handing a firearm over rather than dropping it, especially if he’s nervous because two people (kid and old guy) have guns on him, and he just got shot at fleeing an ambush at a prison.

Then to go from semi normal life in a gated world to a prison will create some story lines that could have them wanting the illusion back
tjexcite on April 1, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Kind of like the traitor guy in the Matrix who knew the Matrix was fake but wanted back in anyway?

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:39 AM

Hey Blake,

Please walk up to a LEO with a loaded firearm and see if he asks you to drop it, or advance and hand it over.

For bonus points, advance towards him no matter what he says and then report back.

chimney sweep on April 2, 2013 at 12:46 AM

Hey chimney sweep, Carl is not a CEO.

He’s a 12 year old kid in a zombie apocalypse, not normal life as we know it now, who the show writers are turning into a little sociopath so next season Rick, his dead, can try to bring out his humanity again.

His target was a nervous 15 year old kid with no prior LEO training, military background, who just ran away from a prison being shot at, who had lowered the muzzle of his weapon.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:48 AM

ceo should read “leo.”

But Carl isn’t a CEO either.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:49 AM

and, “his dead” should be “his dad”

2. Carl shot the kid because he could. He was pissed off about the attack and wanted revenge.

Wendya on April 2, 2013 at 12:52 AM

That’s an interesting theory. The kid does have a lot of bottled up anger.

Carl spent most of the episode angry at his dad, stomping around, he tossed the sheriff star down on the ground.

Even Glenn told Rick earlier in the show, “I’ve never seen Carl so angry before.”

Clink on April 2, 2013 at 1:45 AM

I don’t understand all the Carl fandom either.

I don’t hate the kid, but he can be a little annoying.

I have a hunch that some people – men who love firearms and violence- always root for the most violent characters on these shows, and that’s why.

There is also some disdain (by these same types who love ‘violence first is always the solution or the only one’) for characters who try to use peaceful methods first (such as, Andrea and Rick).

You’ll recall when Shane was on the show, the same types of guys who are loving on Carl now were on these threads with total Shane fandom, because they love the Shane / He-Man/ violent/ sociopath strategy of “just go around shooting people in their faces, don’t even ask them questions first or give them a chance at all.”

I like Rick’s (usual) measured approach, which is, use violence when necessary, but don’t just go around killing people if it can be avoided, if you can talk to them and resolve things peacefully.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 5:56 AM

KMav on April 2, 2013 at 1:49 AM

And all the many reasons you cited are irrelevant and don’t justify shooting a 15 year old in the face in this particular situation.

No reason for Carl to believe this kid was either.
xblade on April 2, 2013 at 2:20 AM

That makes it a tad understandable(from Carl’s perspective) but doesn’t make it right.

EricS on April 2, 2013 at 8:25 AM

It was just some guy on the road. How was Rick to know if the guy was going to be zombie food?

Remember, they (Rick, Daryl, and I forget who else) came across another guy in a cabin several episodes back.

Cabin guy was surviving just fine until Rick killed him (cabin guy began freaking out, so Rick shot him because he was attracting hordes of walkers with his screaming).

I hope we’re not in for a season of angst in the jail.

jnelchef on April 2, 2013 at 8:35 AM

We’re probably in for a Very Special Episode where Beth Greene sings a cowboy song at Glenn and Maggie’s wedding ceremony. A walker will be the ring boy.

Saltyron on April 2, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Disagree with your take on it, but scroll up to see my views on Carl shooting the kid. But this:

For starters, this isn’t a police situation.

No joke, I’ve pointed that out several times to some guy defending Carl on the basis of “but try pointing your gun at a cop and see how well that goes.”

Carl is not a police officer, neither was the 15 year old he shot. You saw how scared the adult citizens were, one of them even yelled at the Governor, “We’re not soliders! We can’t go back and face those psychopaths!”

I have no reason to believe the 15 year old was any less scared than those adult citizens.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 6:14 AM

I like that. Maybe they’ll offer me a writing job…

PetecminMd on April 2, 2013 at 11:47 AM

They should! I like your ending to that storyline, it’s poetic justice. Governor gets the same fate as Merle, kind of, courtesy of Merle’s brother.

It would also be a bit like an episode a long time ago where Daryl and Andrea found a walker hanging from a tree.

I think Rick realized he was raising a little psycho and part of the reason he brought the Woodbury people back was to re-socialize Carl.

Blake on April 2, 2013 at 11:53 AM

Yep. That is exactly what Andrew Lincoln (“Rick”) has said in interviews, that the writers want to take the Carl character that trajectory Season 4.

Sizing up his chances.
cozmo on April 2, 2013 at 11:56 AM

How do you know his glances between the two meant he was “sizing up chances.”

How did Carl know that he was a 15 year asthmatic who was forced to go along? Did he get the Gov’s memo? Did the kid give him a HIPAA? Drop his inhaler?

You put your knowledge in Carl’s place. You have to look at the situation from Carl’s POV, from what he would know at that time. Kid should have dropped the gun ASAP and put his hands up. No slow put down, no hand over, period.

Carl lied to his Dad to avoid a confrontation with Rick, to avoid shaming his old man with his feelings on Rick dropping the ball. But when Rick pushed it, Carl pushed back and called him on it.

Saltyron on April 2, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Hershel knew. Because Hershel isn’t a trigger happy guy ready to instantly blow someone’s head off.

The 15 year old handled it the way a 15 year old would: stupidly. That don’t mean he deserved a bullet to the head.

What Herschel told Rick about it did not match what I saw, simple as that.

deadrody on April 2, 2013 at 12:36 PM

What Hershel saw matched what I saw and heard.

The show writers (it has been confirmed) are setting Carl up to be a ruthless killer, and this is one of more to come showing how trigger happy he is, how very little taking a human life means to him, espeically if it’s someone he doesn’t know well.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 6:29 AM

2)The kid didn’t drop his weapon, as ordered. He offered it to Carl, which was a sucker move to grab Carl and or his weapon. Carl did the right thing.

SurferDoc on April 2, 2013 at 1:00 PM

You don’t know that. And Hershel doesn’t agree with that interpretation.

Rebar on April 2, 2013 at 1:39 PM

No on just about everything in your post.

Also, as some of you have pointed out, the bad guy did not put the gun down.

…Let me tell you about this. People who are “civilized” like Maureen Dowd and the rest are what I call “zombie food”.

When this nation goes south, and it will, you will see the Dale’s, Andrea, Maureens and Krugmans piling up like chord wood.
archer52 on April 2, 2013 at 2:47 PM

He was pointing the muzzle down. He was a scared 15 year old.

And your last two comments are an example of what I talked of earlier, people who think ‘shoot first’ is always the best, or only solution.

Yeah, and if there is an zombie apocalypse, you will sure as heck appreciate one of those “civilized do gooders” stopping to help you when you’re screaming for help. Daryl Dixon came back to the prison after finding Merle and saved Rick’s life, Rick was being attacked by 3 or 4 walkers. Daryl put bolts through their heads, and Merle killed one.

Like ANDREA said in her last scene, everybody needs people to help one another, no more “going it alone.” Daryl said, “I could never make it alone.”

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 6:36 AM

I am surprised at how dumb people are about the Carl situation. He killed a kid who was surrendering. They are creating Carl to be a blood thirsty kid who has no mercy for anyone. The whole purpose of that scene was to show that Carl has started to go over the edge. So whether it was a justified killing or not doesn’t matter to me. But the shows creators are implying it was an unjustified killing so they can get the ball rolling for next season on how crazy Carl is becoming.

The Notorious G.O.P on April 2, 2013 at 8:06 PM

Exactly! That was the point of the scene, the show writers are setting Carl up to be without remorse over taking human life. Killing people has become far too easy for him.

heldmyw on April 2, 2013 at 9:36 PM

And you’re commenting on this thread, just to comment on the commentators? At least we watch the show.

TigerPaw on April 5, 2013 at 6:43 AM

Just rewatched the scene in question… was about 12 seconds from the time the guy was told to drop it, to when Carl shot. The guy didn’t take steps forward, but did lean forward.

El_Terrible on April 2, 2013 at 12:48 AM

And 12 seconds in loaded-weapon-time is more like 12 years.

Leaving aside Carl’s own explanation that mercy has come back to haunt them every time, the kid had every chance to surrender his weapon. He did not. Whatever decision you think he might have made, in the end, he was thinking about whether or not to comply with someone who had drawn on him. Every second he is not dropping that weapon decreases the chance that he will in fact drop it at all. I’m not sure I’d know where that line is unless and until that moment comes. Clearly, Carl knows where his line is.

Now, with Andrea dead (whose actually Ricks current love interest in the comics) and the governor failing (where he succeeded at driving them from the prison in the comics), the shows officially off the rails next season.

Rainsford on April 2, 2013 at 6:45 AM

If you’ve seen the first half of Season Four, I’m sure this claim about the governor seems pretty premature right about now.

The Schaef on January 6, 2014 at 5:19 PM

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