Sebelius: Well, yeah actually, ObamaCare is causing insurance premiums to rise

posted at 8:31 pm on March 27, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

As you might remember, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was largely sold to the American people on the premise that it would help to make health care and health insurance more… well… affordable. Au contraire, says yet another study fleshing out the practical effects of the ObamaCare mandate:

Under the Affordable Care Act, medical claim costs, the largest driver of health insurance premiums, are expected to increase by 32 percent for individuals, a new study by the Society of Actuaries finds.

Though some states might see declines in cost-per-person medical claims, the report found “the overwhelming majority will see double-digit increases in their individual health insurance markets, where people purchase coverage directly from insurers,” the Associated Press reports.

California’s claim costs are estimated to increase by 62 percent by 2017. In Ohio, it’s expected to be 80 percent. Florida costs are expected to grow 20 percent and in Maryland, 67 percent. The higher claim costs are related to the increase in sick people expected to join the pool, according to the report.

But that’s not really unexpected news, if you’ve been paying attention. The unexpected news is that HHS Secretary Sebelius admitted that these individual-insurance premiums are going to be going up, directly because of ObamaCare. Gasp:

Some people purchasing new insurance policies for themselves this fall could see premiums rise because of requirements in the health-care law, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told reporters Tuesday.

Ms. Sebelius’s remarks come weeks before insurers are expected to begin releasing rates for plans that start on Jan. 1, 2014, when key provisions of the health law kick in. Premiums have been a sensitive subject for the Obama administration, which is counting on elements in the health law designed to increase competition among insurers to keep rates in check. The administration has pointed to subsidies that will be available for many lower-income Americans to help them with the cost of coverage.

The secretary’s remarks are among the first direct statements from federal officials that people who have skimpy health plans right now could face higher premiums for plans that are more generous. …

“These folks will be moving into a really fully insured product for the first time, and so there may be a higher cost associated with getting into that market,” she said. “But we feel pretty strongly that with subsidies available to a lot of that population that they are really going to see much better benefit for the money that they’re spending.”

Translation:

Dear Younger and Healthier People,

You will help shoulder the burdens and higher costs of ObamaCare — both through your taxes that go toward subsidies, and by paying for a particular health insurance plan that you yourselves might neither want nor need — and you will like it. You’re welcome.

Sincerely,

ObamaCare.


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Comment pages: 1 2

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Do the people in the countries that you cite as ideal have to have the same coverage, or do those purchasing the coverage determine the level of insurance that they want?

onlineanalyst on March 27, 2013 at 10:38 PM

link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.R._Reid

now, please post link wrt German medicine being so much superior.

r keller on March 27, 2013 at 10:25 PM

Judge for yourself. Kaiser is generally considered an objective source by the healthcare community.

http://www.kaiseredu.org/Issue-Modules/International-Health-Systems/Germany.aspx

US healthcare providers have been among the best in the world in delivering preventative medicine, an important point that no one has made here. It’s not the case that Germany’s system is better by every single measure. The problem is that too many people on the right lack the facts to even properly defend the US system, and are even less prepared to discuss the merits of other models.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:42 PM

Yes, let’s avoid the facts and attack the messenger.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:30 PM

this is what a troll does when presented with a link that contradicts what he just said….bwahahahahaha

but, seriously, bayam, i’m sorry i called you a Moron

r keller on March 27, 2013 at 10:43 PM

Judge for yourself. Kaiser is generally considered an objective source by the healthcare community.

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA

tom daschle concerned on March 27, 2013 at 10:46 PM

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Do the people in the countries that you cite as ideal have to have the same coverage, or do those purchasing the coverage determine the level of insurance that they want?

onlineanalyst on March 27, 2013 at 10:38 PM

It depends on the country but generally speaking insurance is mandated to be comprehensive- it’s important that consumers can compare private insurance options by price without having to worry about exclusions.
In some countries, the private insurance companies compete by adding extra services like holistic or fitness club memberships.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:48 PM

In some countries, the private insurance companies compete by adding extra services like holistic or fitness club memberships.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:48 PM

A practice forbidden by ObamaCare, btw. Unless you want to pay the Cadillac tax.

Even-steven, everybody gets the same. Part of the ‘level playing field’ you spoke of.

BobMbx on March 27, 2013 at 10:51 PM

In Germany, statutory health insurance, which covers 90 percent of the population, is financed by a payroll tax…
 
An employee’s non-working spouse is automatically covered by the employee’s premium…
 
Finally, premiums for children are covered by government out of general revenues…
 
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/17/health-reform-without-a-public-plan-the-german-model/

 
It’s okay to admit that you want grown ups to buy you stuff, bayam.

rogerb on March 27, 2013 at 11:00 PM

US healthcare providers have been among the best in the world in delivering preventative medicine, an important point that no one has made here. It’s not the case that Germany’s system is better by every single measure. The problem is that too many people on the right lack the facts to even properly defend the US system, and are even less prepared to discuss the merits of other models.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:42 PM

with all due respect, I’m sure that Germany has a good h/c system. But so does the US. WHO data is flawed. The Kaiser stuff seems a little suspicions to me.

I don’t regard the percent of people who report that they can see their Dr the same day as interesting. In the US everyone can see a Dr. the same day by going to a ER.

Here’s the rub. In the US in the 90s the big trend was HMOs. Capitation was the word of the day. Everyone Hated it. Everyone thought they were getting Screwed….and if they got a lousy PCP they were screwed…everything has to go thru the PCP

gratuitous slanders that right wing people are too dumb to argue with the Truth are not helpful. the US has been a major producer in medical innovation, and you should not try to portray this county otherwise

r keller on March 27, 2013 at 11:21 PM

The premium for the plan offered by my company would be fully HALF MY TAKE HOME PAY. And it’s supposed to go up another 20% this year.

I don’t need more benefit for my extra dollars, I need affordable coverage against catastrophic loss, the way insurance is supposed to be.

The problem isn’t the quality of providers, bayam. Conservatives have long sung the praises of our medicinal achievements, and been roundly criticized for being so “jingoistic”. The problem is it doesn’t mean beans if people can’t pay the bill. And the chief failing of Obamacare – again, as its opponents have said for years – is that Obamacare does nothing to address that largest of problems, focusing instead on increasing coverage through broader dependency and fewer options for nominal coverage.

The Schaef on March 28, 2013 at 12:45 AM

These folks will be moving into a really fully insured product for the first time

This may seem trivial, but I’m sick to death of being called a “folk.”

“These folks,” “some folks,” “working folks” — any time this damn administration starts with the “folks” talk, I know they mean that I and other “folks” are too damn ignorant or helpless to know what’s best for us, and the government’s just there to help out us “regular folks.”

Aaargh….

notropis on March 28, 2013 at 1:13 AM

The problem is that too many people on the right lack the facts to even properly defend the US system, and are even less prepared to discuss the merits of other models.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:42 PM

And the problem on the left is you won’t admit ObamaCare is a disaster that made the problems worse.

Chuck Schick on March 28, 2013 at 1:36 AM

Oh well. Elections have consequences. Maybe the under-30 crowd will begin to pay attention to stuff other than pot, abortion, and gay marriage to decide their vote.

jas88 on March 28, 2013 at 5:17 AM

As BobMbx pointed out:
 

The same mechanisms you find in France, Germany, and Japan that results in national healthcare that consumes a far lower percentage of GDP.

 
Please, summarize them for us. How about just three of the top 10 methods.
 
So far all you’ve offered is platitudes.

BobMbx on March 27, 2013 at 9:57 PM

 
It really is all bayam’s got, readers. Reread the thread. See if you can find anything of substance.
 
When asked directly he avoids the question because he doesn’t know. He’s ignorant of the subject. It’s not unusual, though. He’s incapable of having an informed discussion on almost any subject:
 
GM:
 
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/16/is-gm-already-on-track-to-go-bankrupt-again/comment-page-3/#comment-6146957
 
Birth control:
 
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/09/video-obama-supporters-stumped-on-why-government-should-pay-for-birth-control/comment-page-3/#comment-6117557
 
Just add this one to the list.
 
It’s why he runs away.
 

As is your response. Where did I ask for GDP?
 
Tax rates for each country too, kiddo.
 
Before you run away.
 
rogerb on March 27, 2013 at 10:16 PM

 
Those countries have higher tax rates, but you seem to be confusing causation and correlation. But please, help us grasp your point kiddo.
 
bayam on March 27, 2013 at 10:17 PM

 
It’s why he wants to stick with GDP and run away from the tax discussion. He doesn’t understand it, and doesn’t understand how it’s tied to costs. His websites that he uses as guides haven’t directed him to understand it because it doesn’t present their goal in an appealing way.
 
That’s why it’s avoided like the plague.
 
They have, however, focused on GDP. Which is what he focuses on here. And it’s the only thing he can discuss, which is why he tries to change the subject when I ask about individual taxes (costs).
 
The same thing causes him to make posts like “(you’re) confusing causation and correlation”. The term was probably used against him when he tried to answer a question in a lecture class and, even though he doesn’t really understand what it means, he decides to use it because it was so effective against him. Because he didn’t understand what it meant and couldn’t address it any further.
 
Unfortunately people here actually do understand what “causation and correlation” mean, and understand how it relates to his cited countries’ healthcare costs.
 
I’ve said it before, but I doubt bayam is out of college, and it’s doubtful he’s ever paid for an insurance policy.
 
And, like any other little kid, he wants you to buy him stuff.

rogerb on March 28, 2013 at 8:46 AM

Well, I’ll be spending 15 or 20 thousand dollars on premiums next year, but hey – I’ll be “fully insured” so that’s great! After all, my wife & I will have at least one checkup each. And our kids might have 4 or 5. Seems like great value to me… /

When I got out of college ten years ago, I bought ER + Surgical. It was $78 a month. This (if anything) is what we should have “covered” the mass unemployed/uninsured with.

Professor_Chaos on March 28, 2013 at 9:01 AM

This President and aministration touted the idea that Obamacare would pay for itself, would reduce the deficit, and would lower health care costs as selling-points for the program. Check your history / news – days after it was signed into law THREE YEARS AGO Obama was asked by the media about the claim that it would lower the cost of premiums, contradictory to the evidence/research. Obama admitted – 3 years ago – that ‘actually neither the President or Congress has the authority or power to lower the cost of health care’. Three years later, Sebilius comes ‘out of the closet’ to finally admit it as well.

Remember that old saying, ‘if it sounds to good to be true it probably is’?! When will dumb@$$ Americans wake up & learn to ignore the biased media and lying politicians? There has NEVER been a government entitlment program that has EVER paid for itself, et alone REDUCED the deficit! I believe it was Roneld Reagan who said (or at least repeated it), “One of the scariest things you will ever hear is someone from the government saying, ‘I’m from the government and I am here to help.’ This administration continues to prove that it is THEIR agenda & THEIR best interest they look after and not the best interest of Americans/this country.

It is amazing to me that people continue to trust and allowed themselves to be snowed by politicians who….

o Pass laws and get away with telling us they don’t apply to THEM…

o Set their own salaries, have created an automatic pay increase system so they don’t even have to vote for one anymore, have made themselves exempt from the health care they have dictated for the rest of us and instead have the best health care our money can buy, get nearly $200,000 in salary but still get travel expsnses/personal spending accounts/multiple staff funding/use the military like their own personal taxis/go on numerous milion-dollar vacations per year while furloughing 80,000 (just military) civilians, etc…

o Cut our military’s budget to the point it endangers our security while giving billions & billions in military weapons to terrorist groups (like the Muslim Brotherhood & PLO) – our enemies & the enemies of our allies – who would prefer to see us fall & some of who participated in attacks on our Embassies on the anniversary of 9/11 just last year….

….some Americans don’t have the common sense God gave a door know, don’t have the guts or desire to do anything other than just b!t@h about it, and deserve what is happeneing and what is coming…

easyt65 on March 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM

Coming soon to the USA courtesy of Obamacare…In the UK the NHS calls this approach the Liverpool Pathway

“A Brazilian doctor who was charged with killing seven patients to free up beds at a hospital intensive care unit may have been responsible for as many as 300 deaths, according to a Health Ministry investigator.

Prosecutors said Dr. Virginia Soares de Souza and her medical team administered muscle relaxing drugs to patients, then reduced their oxygen supply, causing them to die of asphyxia at the Evangelical Hospital in the southern city of Curitiba…

Prosecutors for the state of Parana said wiretaps of De Souza’s phone conversations revealed that her motive was to free up hospital beds for other patients.

“I want to clear the intensive care unit. It’s making me itch,” she said in one recording released to Brazilian media. “Unfortunately, our mission is to be go-betweens on the springboard to the next life,” she added in the same phone call.

More cases are expected to emerge as investigators comb through 1,700 medical records of patients who died in the last seven years at the hospital, where De Souza headed the intensive care unit.

“We already have more than 20 cases established, and there are nearly 300 more that we are looking into,” the chief investigator assigned by Brazil’s Health Ministry, Dr. Mario Lobato, said on Globo TV’s Fantastico program on Sunday.

If prosecutors prove that De Souza killed 300 patients, this could be one of the world’s worst serial killings, rivaling the notorious case of Harold Shipman, the English doctor who was found to have killed at least 215 patients.

Lobato said the deaths he reviewed occurred under similar circumstances: a muscle relaxant such as Pancuronium (trademark Pavulon) was administered, increasing the patients’ dependence on artificial respiration; then the oxygen supply was reduced, causing death by asphyxia.

Some of the patients were conscious moments before they died, he said…”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/us-brazil-hospital-murders-idUSBRE92Q1D120130327

workingclass artist on March 28, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Evil, lying bitca. Just when I think I can’t get any more disgusted with this administration and it’s expanding web of lies, they go an prove me wrong.

totherightofthem on March 28, 2013 at 10:04 AM

an=and. *sigh*

totherightofthem on March 28, 2013 at 10:04 AM

The initial consequence of allowing all Americans to buy affordable budget-crushing health insurance is higher rates.

FIFY

For those with pre-existing conditions, your health premiums will, for the first time, be affordable on a middle class income.

Yes because $20K a year on a middle class income in liberal minds is so affordable! /sarc

As for the long-term, rates will go down. This model is proven in Germany, Australia, and other countries with far, far lower insurance costs yet high quality of care.

Of course… that’s because of higher mortality rates when the plan really kicks in. This is part of the ACA that my current project (Medicare discharges from hospitals) is dealing with. Just wait until you find out the unintended consequence from meddling in the hospital/doctor/patient relationship. We’ve already seen it in our test group as part of the study.

Conservatives should stop playing the role of dead-enders and start proposing ways to improve US healthcare. There’s an incredible wave to tech innovation going on today that will transform the way healthcare is purchased and delivered over the next 10 years, and it’s much more consequential than reform directed from the top down.

We have, you lying fool…

There is a wave of innovation going on… and the ACA is killing it with the device tax. Many medical device manufactures in the US have announced plans to move facilities overseas. There is now a bi-partisan push to end that innovation-killing part of the ACA! (You have a lot of nerve to talk about innovation in the same comment about ACA!)

Recently, Ben Carson suggested providing HSA cards at birth and having all contributions, whether government support or employer job benefit, flow into it. I’ve said for years that I would like to opt completely out of Medicare (since I know it will collapse before I can use it) and put all my contributions into an uncapped HSA.

I’ve also heard suggestions to require hospitals to post pricings for common procedures to allow customers to research and choose the best provider for their current situation (physical and financial). I’ve already seen the benefits when our care coordination company partnered with Healthcare Bluebook to get average prices. HBB has agreements with a lot of TPAs to get claims data and publishes price lists for common procedures around the country. They also have the info for medication (including alternates). That’s how I reduced my bp/cholestrol meds from $100+/month to around $9/month. If you partner with them, they can even aggregate and rate individual hospitals based on cost.

Conservatives have also proposed for years reining in and putting caps on medical malpractice. Malpractice insurance has gotten ridiculous because of the lawyer-happy society we have become. In some major cities, malpractice insurance premiums for doctors specializing in baby deliveries has topped $1M/yr. Those costs are passed on and paid by us.

The lawyer-happy, lawsuit-ready society has also graced us with another cost-expensive procedure… getting all possible tests done in order to make sure the provider can’t be sued for missing a possible test. Tests should be used to discover the cause of symptoms, not used as a CYA by providers to preserve their practice. Yes, mistakes are made… but the cost to our medical system is far less than the cost of additional tests for everyone.

Also take a look at the number of admins in your doctor’s office that are required to handle paperwork. The number of admins at my local PCP went from 2 to 6 in the last 10 years, while the number of doctors (3) stayed the same. The reason for that is the increased paperwork, created by the insurance company, to fulfill increased government regulations, has overwhelmed the staff. Everything must be coded with one or more ICD9 and Diagnosis codes. Many of the problems we have with insurance refusing to cover procedures until someone gets involved is because someone at a doctor’s office mis-coded an entry. There are 13,000 ICD-9 codes… and when the industry stops delaying the move to ICD-10, that number will jump to 64,000 codes. You want to lower doctor costs, remove this bureaucratic nightmare of paperwork. (And by the way, I’ve had to code our software lookup of ICD-9 codes and diagnosis codes, so I know what I’m talking about). Here’s more info on the difference in codes.

bayam on March 27, 2013 at 9:16 PM

Next time before you run off touting the wonders and joys of socialized medicine (which WE HAVE NOW, which you say is broken), why don’t you actually talk to someone in the healthcare system and ASK why healthcare is so expensive. In most cases, it’s because of government interference through regulatory burdens.

DISCLAIMER: I work for a care coordination company that specializes in lowering healthcare costs for employers that provide self-funded plans. I can explain how our approach works, by providing a better patient/provider experience, with lower costs… but that is for a different discussion. Of course Bayam wouldn’t believe it because it runs on common-sense instead of government regulations.

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 10:32 AM

(slightly OT) ICD10 hits October 2014. Same year as Obamacare! Yay!. It’s going to be a nightmare for providers. If you go to the AMA website on the subject they warn Doctors to get a line of credit to get them over the hump when insurance companies (and especially Medicare/Medicaid/MediCal) start denying for miss-coding.

WitchDoctor on March 28, 2013 at 10:48 AM

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 10:32 AM

To one of your points, yes, conservatives and Libertarians have been advocating for real health insurance/health care reform for years. The Leftists choose not to see it. The Legacy Media chooses not to report on it. They don’t want that debate, because they would lose. So, like everything else, they just pretend it doesn’t exist and stick to demonizing their opponents.

The ultimate irony is that it’s the Left that is backwards. The reform offered by ObamaCare critics is cutting edge. Even Canada, Sweden, etc. are moving “Right” (in the American sense) towards reform.

Freer markets, less government intrusion, freedom to choose: these will always be cutting edge. Government mandates, control, centralized planning: those are as old as government itself.

visions on March 28, 2013 at 10:59 AM

(slightly OT) ICD10 hits October 2014. Same year as Obamacare! Yay!. It’s going to be a nightmare for providers. If you go to the AMA website on the subject they warn Doctors to get a line of credit to get them over the hump when insurance companies (and especially Medicare/Medicaid/MediCal) start denying for miss-coding.

WitchDoctor on March 28, 2013 at 10:48 AM

It’s been delayed for several years, and I keep hoping for another extension. EVERYONE knows this is going to be a nightmare… from the providers who have to correctly code everything, to the TPAs who process the claims, to third-parties like us.

I don’t understand why they don’t just fix the issues with ICD-9. Yeah there are some problems with it (like leg injuries that don’t indicate upper vs lower leg)… but that seems way more easier to fix than the ICD-10 codes.

I really feel sorry for the PCP doctors/staff. This is going to be an absolute nightmare.

(But of course bayam will cheer on the expansion of expensive bureaucracy because of some non-existent, yet theoretical increase in the quality of care!)

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 11:00 AM

Those for whom the ACA was intended are now being priced out of quality healthcare. For us who do have it we are paying more. That “You Lie” shout out during obummer’s SOTU speech in 2009 was spot on.

jake49 on March 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM

visions on March 28, 2013 at 10:59 AM

Thank you for responding!

I absolutely agree and it is maddening because it’s in front of my face every single day at work. I see the problems and which solutions work.

I really think the work done by companies like Healthcare Bluebook and Healthgrades would enable HUGE savings. (HBB costs procedures/meds using actual claims data; Healthguides rates physicians)

For our member site, we partnered with HBB who linked out to Healthgrades. So for the members of our employer groups, they can look up a procedure and see average costs, with hospitals graded on cost for that procedure, then see all the doctors at a specific hospital that perform that procedure, with links out to Healthgrades for individual ratings the doctors and also lists their accreditation/education degrees… very cool!

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 11:08 AM

Those for whom the ACA was intended are now being priced out of quality healthcare. For us who do have it we are paying more. That “You Lie” shout out during obummer’s SOTU speech in 2009 was spot on.

jake49 on March 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM

Yes it is… and it will continue over the next few years. One huge driver of the increased costs will the the increased costs for hospital inpatient procedures. I’m working on a project for care transition for hospitals that discharge Medicare patients. The ACA fines hospitals that have “excessive” re-admission rates of Medicare patients. (Even though most readmissions are unavoidable, according to what we’re seeing in our pilot study.) The first year the max fine is 1% of all Medicare reimbursement, with 3 conditions being tracked (pneumonia, heart attack, heart failure). This expands over the next 3 years to be 3% and 6 conditions.

Of the 3900+ hospitals in the country, half are getting hit with fines this year. 825 of them with fines greater than $750K. (I saw a few with fines in the millions.) So just extrapolate this out to 3x that with 2x the conditions tracked, and realize that the average hospital only has a profit margin of about 3%. Billing directors are so panicked over this provision in the ACA that we talked with one director that was calling patients herself, off-hours, to try and reduce readmissions!

Inpatient hospital procedure costs are going to skyrocket over the next few years.

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM

Sebelius: Well, yeah actually, ObamaCare is causing insurance premiums to rise…

…But only for people who weren’t paying their “fair share” for health care, she added.

If you have to pay more it is because others were subsidizing you. Either that or the evil greedy capitalists are trying to exploit you. If you suspect the latte, contact Big Brother at once and report them.

Welcome to socialist economics — the centralized planning and control of an entire economic sector. If you like it a lot more is on they way.

farsighted on March 28, 2013 at 11:24 AM

The government knows what is good for you.

Now, shut-up and grab your ankles.

WestTexasBirdDog on March 28, 2013 at 11:33 AM

Don’t misunderstand. I can certainly see an advantage in that sort of ideologically-driven life. If something doesn’t fit you ignore it, and if something needs changing to fit your worldview then you make it up.
 
We saw it again upthread with bayam’s Malibu statement…
 
(Sorry to hear you don’t know much about the industry.)
 

Faith-based, religious fundamentalism. Nothing more.
 
rogerb on August 16, 2012 at 5:55 PM

rogerb on March 28, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Obamacare will literally be the final nail in the coffin of American prosperity. US GDP growth in the decade of the 1960s averaged 4.4% per year, 1970′s 3.26%, 1980′s 3.05%, 1990′s 3.2%, 2000′s 1.73, since 2010, 1.3%, and that number will come down with the most recent numbers. The economics are simple, more regulation means less economic growth and prosperity: Regulation vs. Prosperity… America goes gently into that good night

Obamacare is simply the single most intrusive regulation in the history of the Republic. Not only will it destroy American prosperity, but it will squash what is left of American feedom: Obamacare – What good is health insurance if you lose the freedom to live your life as you choose?

A thousand years from now they will call this an example of national suicide…

imperfectamerica on March 28, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Hey bayam, when are you going to post about Germany’s physician strikes?
 

Over the past few years, students in Germany have been dropping out of medical school at increasing rates, and the number of physicians choosing to work abroad or in non-medical professions has been growing…
 
Among those physicians who have remained in the workforce, there is a similar dissatisfaction, reflected in part by a general strike in 2006 by German physicians in favour of higher wages and better working conditions.
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17137674

 
I’m sure your evangelist told you about them.
 
Or are you just choosing not to believe in that part? You can get to Heaven without it, right?

rogerb on March 28, 2013 at 12:42 PM

It’s why he wants to stick with GDP and run away from the tax discussion. He doesn’t understand it, and doesn’t understand how it’s tied to costs. His websites that he uses as guides haven’t directed him to understand it because it doesn’t present their goal in an appealing way.

That’s completely false. You can also look at any published list of healthcare cost per capita for an alternative measure.

You still haven’t provided any evidence that there’s a correlation between the tax rates in Germany and the cost of its healthcare system. You continue to push an incredibly dishonest refrain without a single proof point.

a wave of innovation going on… and the ACA is killing it with the device tax

You’re confusing healthcare software and systems innovation with the traditional medical device industry. Perhaps you honestly don’t realize that a new generation of software and internet companies is deeply disrupting the healthcare industry.

I’ve also heard suggestions to require hospitals to post pricings for common procedures to allow customers to research and choose the best provider for their current situation

Again, you don’t seem to realize that simply posting prices on a website hardly represents innovation that will change the way patients make healthcare decisions. Services like CakeHealth are developing far more sophisticated platforms that will bring an entirely new level of transparency that will help inform cost-related choices that strip out today’s complexity.

Also take a look at the number of admins in your doctor’s office that are required to handle paperwork. The number of admins at my local PCP went from 2 to 6 in the last 10 years, while the number of doctors (3) stayed the same. The reason for that is the increased paperwork, created by the insurance company, to fulfill increased government regulations, has overwhelmed the staff

Health 2.0 entrepreneurs are driving innovation that completely resolves the paperwork challenge. You continue to repeat the completely misguided assumption that alternative healthcare models, such as those found in Germany or France, involve more paperwork and regulation. In fact, the opposite is the case and that’s ultimately where the combination of innovation and ongoing evolution of ACA should lead the US system. No one in their right mind believes the first ACA legislation was the final and last step in improving the delivery model.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM

Conservatives have also proposed for years reining in and putting caps on medical malpractice.

Too bad their unique opportunity to craft the ACA was completely lost to the faction of the party demanding a NO vote and complete refusal to shape the final legislation.

Of course malpractice costs are out of control and need to be reformed. Hopefully the GOP can start sending a message to the public that it represents a body of significant change and reform other than simply going back to the past.

I work for a care coordination company that specializes in lowering healthcare costs for employers that provide self-funded plans. I can explain how our approach works, by providing a better patient/provider experience, with lower costs…

Good for you. You might add that high growth healthcare companies are building out incredible software platforms to address the challenges you described at scale. Health tech innovation is on fire and attracting billions of dollars in venture capital investment. While consumers may only see products such as Fitbit and Nike FuelBand, behind the scenes disruptive technology is under development that promises to be far more consequential to US healthcare than any government-mandated change.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/07/digital-health-in-2012-1-4b-raised-up-45-yy-qualcomm-most-prolific-of-179-investors-castlight-scored-largest-round/

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:09 PM

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM

So payroll taxes that fund insurance premiums in Germany aren’t really taxes, right? Insurance for Children in Germany are paid for by the Government but that money doesn’t come from taxes right?

You need to engage your brain before you engage you tongue (fingers).

chemman on March 28, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Too bad their unique opportunity to craft the ACA was completely lost to the faction of the party demanding a NO vote and complete refusal to shape the final legislation.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Speaking of completely false…

It seems someone here has forgotten about the summit in which all of these issues were brought up, and then summarily dismissed without consideration, in favor of passing the Senate bill with zero changes. And now look at the news: higher cost to the government; higher premiums; people losing coverage; companies not hiring; not being able to “keep your plan”; higher cost to the patient; millions about to be pushed off employer insurance into the exchanges; exchanges which themselves are such a hot mess that half the states want nothing to do with it. It reads like a laundry list of everything Ryan et al warned about the bill in its current form, and nothing Obama promised as a result.

behind the scenes disruptive technology is under development that promises to be far more consequential to US healthcare than any government-mandated change.

Then maybe it’s time we stop wasting trillions of tax dollars on government-mandated change.

The Schaef on March 28, 2013 at 1:23 PM

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM

So payroll taxes that fund insurance premiums in Germany aren’t really taxes, right? Insurance for Children in Germany are paid for by the Government but that money doesn’t come from taxes right?

You need to engage your brain before you engage you tongue (fingers).

chemman on March 28, 2013 at 1:18 PM

You can lookup medical costs per capita, per country. I don’t know how else to respond to your point.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:28 PM

Sebelius-another Cafeteria Catholic abortionist fanatic. She somewhat resembles Norman Bates’s mummified mother in ‘Psycho’.

MaiDee on March 28, 2013 at 1:35 PM

You can lookup medical costs per capita, per country. I don’t know how else to respond to your point.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:28 PM

ObamaCare is spiking premiums, FYI. All you’re doing is trying to distract from that point.

Chuck Schick on March 28, 2013 at 1:45 PM

Sebelius: Well, yeah actually, ObamaCare is causing insurance premiums to rise

Well, yes, a fully intentional feature, not an unexpected bug.

The only, and logical response, to increasingly unaffordable insurance premiums is government single-payer health care in which the government pays for all your health care needs, so you need never to worry again about being without necessary coverage again for you or your family.

I, for one, welcome government to be entirely responsible for managing my life.

hawkeye54 on March 28, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Too bad their unique opportunity to craft the ACA was completely lost to the faction of the party demanding a NO vote and complete refusal to shape the final legislation.

WRONG (as always). Go back to articles at the time of crafting. The ACA was crafted behind closed doors by Democrat lobbyists. Republicans were completely excluded and were demonized for even arguing to have a few days to read it before voting on it.

Of course malpractice costs are out of control and need to be reformed. Hopefully the GOP can start sending a message to the public that it represents a body of significant change and reform other than simply going back to the past.

We’ve been sending it for years, and been demonized (again) by liberals. If you look at the Democrat political party, they are very, VERY tightly tied to lawyers, which is why any time tort reform is brought up, it’s always the Democrat liberals who shoot it down. Face it… you are the party of lawyers… and it shows!

Good for you. You might add that high growth healthcare companies are building out incredible software platforms to address the challenges you described at scale. Health tech innovation is on fire and attracting billions of dollars in venture capital investment. While consumers may only see products such as Fitbit and Nike FuelBand, behind the scenes disruptive technology is under development that promises to be far more consequential to US healthcare than any government-mandated change.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/07/digital-health-in-2012-1-4b-raised-up-45-yy-qualcomm-most-prolific-of-179-investors-castlight-scored-largest-round/

Well, it’s nice that you cite a techy article regarding the technology that we’ve been investigating for a while now. We know all about telemonitoring. In fact, I probably know far more about it than you do since we’re looking at integrating data feeds from those devices through the home health agencies into our product by partnering with them. But hey, liberals always look for some future magic to save them from the predicament that they helped create. There’s only one problem… it relies on nurses to do the case management to provide the care. Telemonitoring only extends a nurses reach, but they must still provide the care. And I’ve argued earlier (AND YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED) that nurses and doctors and hospitals are already overloaded because of your wonderful government bureaucracies… which means that your shiny chrome technologies can’t save you from the Hell you have been creating. And many of those shiny innovations will fail because technology alone cannot save healthcare. Healthcare is provided by caring providers, not machines. And you’re bragging about what others are doing to get around your regulations like someone who’s found a way to bolt a super-charger onto a Yugo. Unless you’ve got the capacity to support the tech, it’s nothing but wasted metal.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Health 2.0 entrepreneurs are driving innovation that completely resolves the paperwork challenge. You continue to repeat the completely misguided assumption that alternative healthcare models, such as those found in Germany or France, involve more paperwork and regulation. In fact, the opposite is the case and that’s ultimately where the combination of innovation and ongoing evolution of ACA should lead the US system. No one in their right mind believes the first ACA legislation was the final and last step in improving the delivery model.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 12:56 PM

Blah blah blah… that and we’ll all have flying cars by the year 2000. What is it about liberals only believing fantasy dreams and dismissing facts (like healthcare costs under ACA will increase 32% over the next few years)? Liberal healthcare people have been trying to tackle electronic medical records since the 90s. And I have inside information from the man who started that craze that he’s about to release an article in a medical journal pointing to his recent research that shows it HASN’T REDUCED THE BURDEN OF PAPERWORK, and it won’t for any foreseeable future. (Our company board members are VERY well connected in healthcare!) But go ahead and cling to your dreams… you can fly over here in your air-car and tell me you’re right and I’m wrong. Meanwhile, I’ll put more weight in the word of a man who’s been studying it for decades.

You might add that high growth healthcare companies are building out incredible software platforms to address the challenges you described at scale.

And what the heck do you think I’ve been talking about? What do you think I’m doing? I’m a software developer IN one of those explosive growth companies that quietly started doing it 14 years ago and for the last two years has been exploding with 50+% growth a year. I also know what works, and what doesn’t, what’s a fad, and what’s for real.

What do you want to talk about next, telepresence for physicians? I have a friend who built a large part of the software system for what was shown off at CNES recently. The article talks about Castlight. We’ve been in negotiations with them too and I’ve evaluated their technology offerings for integration with ours. They’re a mixture of Healthcare Blue Book ratings and our care coordination business. You want to talk VC funding? We’ve already been meeting with the healthcare side of the largest VC group in the US. We meet regularly with top healthcare leaders (and yes, I can name names).

But if you want to keep waving your ignorance like a flag so I can pound you with facts from the frontlines, go ahead. It will be informative for the others! I only hope you might learn from my experience and knowledge from being on the frontlines, instead of believing in fantasies that others are trying to sell you.

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Sebelius-another Cafeteria Catholic abortionist fanatic. She somewhat resembles Norman Bates’s mummified mother in ‘Psycho’.

How can the Catholic Church be taken seriously if it refuses to expel these especially prominent members and allows them to chose which church teachings it can so publicly flaunt in disregard?

Same goes for the Mormon Church and the likes of Dingy Harry.

I just don’t understand….unless its numbers and money that is more important than faithful adherence to doctrine.

hawkeye54 on March 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM

Blah blah blah… that and we’ll all have flying cars by the year 2000.

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Obligatory.

The Schaef on March 28, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Good for you. You might add that high growth healthcare companies are building out incredible software platforms to address the challenges you described at scale.

bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:09 PM

Oh, and just to pre-empt a comment so you don’t get pounded again with facts… I would warn you that a lot of those “incredible software platforms” are built around the concept of Wellness.

However “Wellness” is going to take a hit over the next year or two. I have insider information from a researcher that championed it for years, that his new research shows that Wellness programs really don’t make that much difference in the healthiness of a population… for two very simple reasons…

1) People don’t like being reminded that they’re sick. 2) The people engaged in Wellness are already health conscious and would have engaged in a healthy lifestyle regardless of any Wellness program.

The only Wellness program that makes a measurable difference is to stop smoking. All others (exercise, dietary, etc) depend on the theory that presenting them with the information will cause them to consider it and change their views.

Bayam, I’m sure you’re arguing with me in your mind right now, but I’d like to point out…

My arguments probably haven’t caused you to re-think your arguments, despite information presented to you from the frontlines by a person who is knee-deep in the technology innovation in healthcare. You will cling to your ideology in spite of everything told to you.

And Bayam, you will have just proven why Wellness programs don’t work…

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 2:07 PM

Obligatory.

The Schaef on March 28, 2013 at 2:01 PM

ROFL! THANKS! Funny thing is… I married into an aviation family. My father-in-law has a Cessna 180. And while I don’t have a license, he’s let me fly to fly-ins (he still does the takeoffs and landings!).

Biggest problem with the flying car idea is cost. We could get helicopters too, but even the cheapest R22 is still over $50K… and you can’t just arbitrarily land on buildings. FAA is a little touchy about that! :)

dominigan on March 28, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Looks like we even have a socialist health care expert here on HA. Isn’t it amazing how easy it is to centrally plan and control and micromanage an entire multi-trillion dollar market and industry. Apparently almost anyone can do it better than free markets and free enterprise could. Even government bureaucrats and community organizing politicians. If only the socialist social engineering experts had been able to implement their plans a long time ago everything would be fine today, just like the health care industry in Cuba.

Socialist social engineers may be the most dangerous control freaks the human species has ever created. And we are all now their guinea pigs.

farsighted on March 28, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Socialist social engineers may be the most dangerous control freaks the human species has ever created. And we are all now their guinea pigs.

farsighted on March 28, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I’m guessing they all did pretty well playing SimCity.

BobMbx on March 28, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Every year our rates go up.

For 2012, my husband who has a very good job, had $900 taken out of his MONTHLY income for our small 4 member family. And this does not include the SAME amount paid out to the insurer by his employer.

For 2013, he will now have $992 taken out.

To make matters more obscene, we have a $4000 deductible for our family, $2000 for each person. So every time one of us goes to the doctor (which isn’t much these days), we pay the bill and apply the amount to our yearly deductible. Of course, this amount never adds up to 2, let alone 4 grand.

My sister, who is disabled and is living on Medicaid, and is currently going through expensive chemotherapy, will pay ZERO dollars towards her health care.

Go figure.

TeaTrekkie on March 28, 2013 at 4:38 PM

If there is a hell Kathleen Sebelius has a front row seat reserved.

bw222 on March 28, 2013 at 6:49 PM

It’s why he wants to stick with GDP and run away from the tax discussion. He doesn’t understand it, and doesn’t understand how it’s tied to costs. His websites that he uses as guides haven’t directed him to understand it because it doesn’t present their goal in an appealing way….
 
rogerb on March 28, 2013 at 8:46 AM

 

So payroll taxes that fund insurance premiums in Germany aren’t really taxes, right? Insurance for Children in Germany are paid for by the Government but that money doesn’t come from taxes right?…
 
chemman on March 28, 2013 at 1:18 PM

 
You can lookup medical costs per capita, per country. I don’t know how else to respond to your point.
 
bayam on March 28, 2013 at 1:28 PM

 
Thanks, bayam.

rogerb on March 28, 2013 at 7:13 PM

My non political ex wife called me last fall about our daughters coverage and she said flat out her company switched to a high deductible plan because of Obama Care.

My wife now and I both teach school and my plan is being is eliminated, while her plan, covering her and our two girls, is going from $186/month out of pocket premium to $292/month. And the deductible is going from $2400 to $4800. This is for her and our girls. By my math, that is a 100% increase in the deductible and 60% increase in premiums.

My plan is nuked, so I can go to same plan she is on. It would cost me $12 less a month, but my deductible will go from $1200 to $2400. I could go to a different plan. Lets take a look:
One plan would cost $249 a month vs. $58 that I pay now for a $1000 vs. $1200 deductible.
Another plan would cost $516 a month vs. $58 that I pay now for a $500 deductible vs. $1200 now. She wasnt lying when she acknowledged that premiums were going up.

Also – I have two kids in daycare and another one soon to go to college. Im not getting any help with that.

There is no question that I am going onto the lowest monthly cost plan because I just cannot afford it. Have you seen the price of gas, the price of food, the price of everything. So basically, I will not be going to the doctor unless I am really really sick.

But – I am dreaming of rainbows and unicorns thinking about how FAIR this all is.

smorrow66 on March 29, 2013 at 6:13 AM

Obamacare is actually STRUCTURED TO WASTE MONEY…by:

* Forcing everyone to buy insurance they will never need. This is always a waste, because administrative and other costs are still there even if there is never a claim. The cost of buying un-needed and or rarely used insurance is almost 100% pure waste, and suitable protection can be provided much more economically using high deductible policies with more general coverage.

* Paying health care money to bureaucrats and tax collectors…instead of doctors and other health care providers.

* Forcing medical device costs upward via dysfunctional taxation of the providers.

* Forcing blind standardization of medical procedures, leaving no room for innovation and experimentation which may result in superior outcomes.

* Using health care revenue to finance Death Panels and other bureaucracies which have no place in our health care system.

* etc, etc.

landlines on March 29, 2013 at 7:11 PM

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