Cyprus finance minister: Big depositors could lose 40% of their savings

posted at 10:01 am on March 26, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

If the EU wanted to end Cyprus’ status as a haven for oligarchs and other gray-market transactions, they couldn’t have done a better job.  Cyprus and the EU reached a deal yesterday on a bailout that will safeguard insured deposits up to €100,000 from any kind of seizure, but that means that larger depositors will get a bigger haircut than the 13% initially proposed in the deal rejected by the Cypriot legislature.  Foreign Minister Michael Sarris told the BBC that they could lose nearly half of their deposits:

Large depositors at Cypriot banks could lose as much as 40% of their funds as part of bailout for the crisis-hit euro-zone nation, its Finance Minister Michael Sarris said Tuesday.

He said capital controls aimed at preventing deposit flight should only be in place for a matter of weeks.

Regarding the loss likely to be suffered by people with deposits of more than 100,000 euros ($128,530) in Cyprus’ two biggest banks, he said: “The exact percentage is not yet decided but it is going to be [significant] I am afraid.”

“What I have seen suggests a number in that neighborhood” of 40%, he said.

That’s a tough neighborhood.  That’s not a haircut — it’s an amputation, and not just for the depositors.  No one in the EU or outside of it will have any confidence at all in Cyprus’ banks after either taking that kind of loss or watching others do so.  Big depositors, and investors as well, will look for other friendly banking environments, leaving Cyprus with mainly smaller depositors and little in the way of opportunities for large capital infusions.  Cyprus is essentially out of the international banking business for a very long time to come.

In fact, they’re still completely out of business, at least temporarily.  Despite a promise to reopen today, the reopening of the banks has been delayed until Thursday, and strict capital controls will be imposed to keep Cypriots from staging bank runs that could collapse the system entirely:

Many Cypriots say they felt anything but reassured by the bailout deal, however, and are expected to besiege banks as soon as they reopen after a shutdown that began over a week ago.

Reversing a previous decision to start reopening at least some banks on Tuesday, the central bank said late on Monday that they would all now stay shut until Thursday to ensure the “smooth functioning of the whole banking system”.

Little is known about the restrictions on transactions that Anastasiades said the central bank would impose, but he told Cypriots: “I want to assure you that this will be a very temporary measure that will gradually be relaxed.”

Capital controls, preventing people moving funds out of the country, are at odds with the European Union’s ideals of a common market but the government may fear an ebb tide of panic that would cause even more disruption to the local economy.

The precedent set by the EU in seizing bank deposits, especially to this extent, is still reverberating on the Continent. The European Central Bank is trying to reassure Europeans that Cyprus was a unique problem, and not a model for other bailouts, but that’s been a mixed message this week:

The banking crisis in Cyprus was a unique case and the rescue plan used should not be seen as a model for other European countries that fall into trouble, ECB Executive Board member Benoit Coeure said on Tuesday.

Coeure told Europe 1 radio that the bailout agreed for Cyprus underscored the need to improve bank regulation by having the European Central Bank act as an independent supervisor under plans for a European banking union.

He said he disagreed with Eurogroup head Jeroen Dijsselbloem’s assertion that the Cyprus bailout would serve as a model for crises elsewhere, remarks the Dutchman backtracked on after markets read them as meaning private sector bail-ins would play a greater role in future rescues.

This cannot have a salutary effect on investment in European banks, not even with all of the ECB’s assurances that it won’t seize capital again. The big seizure of accounts in Cyprus, no matter the relative context to the issues of its banking failures, has put that action on the table for every potential bailout still on the horizon in the EU. It’s simply impossible to unring that bell.


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Who in God’s name would ever put money in a Cyprus bank again? People who don’t own a mattress? And if anything close to this happens in any other country in the Eurozone, then it’s all over.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:05 AM

The EU is hoping they can make depositors feel better by making the haircut “progressive.” Hah! Get your money out of national banks in America, boys and girls. It will happen here in America, too. It’s just a matter of time.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:05 AM

Get out the popcorn, this is going to be fun. Most of the deposits subject to this levy are Russian (probably why the Cypriots felt it was politically possible), but make no mistake, Russia will get their pound of flesh for this, probably out of the EU as a whole.

LukeinNE on March 26, 2013 at 10:06 AM

The media over there is really trying to blame capitalism for this and they can’t make the case.

I socialize with, and deal with Europeans. It is soooo bad for them right now that they have forgotten about hating President Bush.

Some of them are even wondering if socialism actually works.

They keep saying austerity hasn’t worked for the UK, despite many in the UK claiming that there hasn’t been much austerity.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Get out the popcorn, this is going to be fun. Most of the deposits subject to this levy are Russian (probably why the Cypriots felt it was politically possible), but make no mistake, Russia will get their pound of flesh for this, probably out of the EU as a whole.

LukeinNE on March 26, 2013 at 10:06 AM

It doesn’t matter if the bulk of the confiscated funds are Russian. This is the beginning of the end of private property rights, and I guaran-damn-tee you there are people on The Hill right now just salivating over ways to make it happen in America next.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM

remember that time back in 2010 when Nancy Pelosi said taking 401(k)s may have to occur?

http://www.humanevents.com/2010/05/04/republicans-sound-alarm-on-administration-plan-to-seize-401ks/

Google Theresa Guilarducci for more.

DanMan on March 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM

It doesn’t matter if the bulk of the confiscated funds are Russian. This is the beginning of the end of private property rights, and I guaran-damn-tee you there are people on The Hill right now just salivating over ways to make it happen in America next.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM

It won’t happen here though for one simple reason: the 2nd amendment. If the government ever tried a stunt like this, millions would descend on DC in anger and I don’t wanna imagine what would happen next.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.

And then you just start stealing it from their bank accounts.

Shut up, that’s why.

Good Lt on March 26, 2013 at 10:12 AM

I can hear democrats saying “Hey! Now there is an idea, yeah that’s the ticket, we’ll just take the money. They didn’t earn it anyway…” This is a bad precedent.

major dad on March 26, 2013 at 10:12 AM

America saves the Old World again?

I am planting comments all over Europe that the American Right , led by our Congress, is saving us from the storm they are in.

I wish I could get some help from Congress on this PR push…

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 10:12 AM

It won’t happen here though for one simple reason: the 2nd amendment. If the government ever tried a stunt like this, millions would descend on DC in anger and I don’t wanna imagine what would happen next.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM

“It won’t happen here” is where you lose me. It may not happen here without severely violent repercussions, but just a few short months ago, we were all patting ourselves on the back thinking that the American people could never be stupid enough to re-elect Obama. But we did.

It can happen here. And I stand by my assertion that as soon as the politicians find a way to make it politically palatable enough to ensure there won’t be a nationwide bank run, it will.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Not just Cyprus will feel the effects of this. No one with any intelligence will trust their deposits in an EU bank again.

When I was growing up, we were told how silly some older people were who did not trust the banks and kept all their money hidden in a mattress or buried in coffee cans in the back yard. “It is so much safer to keep your money in the bank” we were told. “Deposits are now insured” we were told. “You make interest when you deposit your money so it grows” we were told. After observing this action and the piddly interest being paid these days — evidence our money isn’t worth much, those older folks don’t look so silly after all.

AZfederalist on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

I really have to post this link. Ed’s cluelessness is getting to be too much to take.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=219136

Laiki Bank customers in the UK face no restrictions on access to their cash and have been told it is “business as usual” at the firm’s four British branches, despite an overnight decision to close its Cyprus parent.

… there was no need for the 13,000 UK customers to panic …

So if you knew this and had the capability, you apparently could have moved all your money out of this Cyprus bank during the freeze.

I am willing to bet that if you are a Russian oligarch with a lot of money (formerly) in Cyprus you did exactly that.

gh on March 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Cypriot riots coming in 5…4…3…2…1…

EU implosion coming in 10…9…8…7…6…

Ward Cleaver on March 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Not just Cyprus will feel the effects of this. No one with any intelligence will trust their deposits in an EU bank again.

When I was growing up, we were told how silly some older people were who did not trust the banks and kept all their money hidden in a mattress or buried in coffee cans in the back yard. “It is so much safer to keep your money in the bank” we were told. “Deposits are now insured” we were told. “You make interest when you deposit your money so it grows” we were told. After observing this action and the piddly interest being paid these days — evidence our money isn’t worth much, those older folks don’t look so silly after all.

AZfederalist on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

I do better with my money in my wallet than the bank does for me. The only reason I have a bank account at all is because I had a job that required direct deposit. It annoys my parents to no end, but I really am better off living from paycheck-to-paycheck now.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:15 AM

This is going to happen

nyclakerfan on March 26, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Man, if I had money in a Spanish or Italian bank, I would no longer have money in said Spanish or Italian bank tomorrow.

I’m considering my American bank accounts…

JohnGalt23 on March 26, 2013 at 10:17 AM

Cypriot riots coming in 5…4…3…2…1…

EU implosion coming in 10…9…8…7…6…

Ward Cleaver on March 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM

When does the countdown to the Great American haircut start? And don’t you people tell me “It can’t happen here because of the 2nd amendment” or some-such baloney. Unless you plan on storming a bank with a gun in-hand and robbing it, you aren’t getting frozen assets out of your bank account. You’re better off walking into a bank peacefully, NOW, and pulling out as much of your money as you can before SHTF.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:18 AM

gh on March 26, 2013 at 10:14 AM

You understand, of course, that the Laiki Bank in the UK is open for business for depositors in the UK and not Cyprus, right? The Cyprus accounts are frozen; the UK accounts are not.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:18 AM

I told them that there is staff at Morgan Stanley who could solve the whole EU problem in a matter of months.

Unfortunately, like cancer, a lot of socialism has to be removed, first thing.

I could give them a name and phone number to get started…

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 10:19 AM

.. It can happen here. And I stand by my assertion that as soon as the politicians find a way to make it politically palatable enough to ensure there won’t be a nationwide bank run, it will.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

the politically palatable method you were thinking of is called quantitative easing, aka printing money.

Fenris on March 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM

Sounds like an awesome solution for our financial problems in the US.

Of course, Congress, Fed employees, Union employees, Democratic donors and their families would be excluded.from the 40% hit.

Just like obamacare.

acyl72 on March 26, 2013 at 10:21 AM

You understand, of course, that the Laiki Bank in the UK is open for business for depositors in the UK and not Cyprus, right? The Cyprus accounts are frozen; the UK accounts are not.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:18 AM

So are the Russian mobsters considered Cypriot account holders for purposes of this haircut? You’re supposed to be able to access all funds from all accounts from all branches of your respective banks here in the United States. If a certain bank is freezing some accounts and not others based on stated residency, this really doesn’t pass the “your private property is safe” smell test to me.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:22 AM

Makes me want to move there, open a small business, evade taxes and fire everyone.

Limerick on March 26, 2013 at 10:22 AM

we were told. After observing this action and the piddly interest being paid these days — evidence our money isn’t worth much, those older folks don’t look so silly after all.

AZfederalist on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

Oh calm down.

They saved GM, didn’t they? Then took care of the dealers..

If you are a registered Democrat, your money is safe.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 10:23 AM

acyl72 on March 26, 2013 at 10:21 AM

LOL/

Beat me to it!

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 10:24 AM

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:22 AM

It’s not the residency, it’s where the accounts are located. The accounts located in Cyprus are frozen while the banks there are closed. Laiki in the UK would have its own capital requirements. Remember, the UK is NOT part of the Euro.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:24 AM

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

the politically palatable method you were thinking of is called quantitative easing, aka printing money.

Fenris on March 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM

Our government won’t be able to do that forever without massive hyperinflation eventually popping the bubble. Sooner or later, the countries that collectively hold trillions of USD in reserve currency will have to be reassured that the “full faith and credit of the United States government” means something.

This could go one of two ways: Hyperinflation will summarily make the USD worthless in the blink of an eye at some indeterminate point in time,

or,

Productive citizens will take a haircut in order to delay that hyperinflation for some indeterminate period of time, after which it will happen anyway because the “full faith and credit” of our government hasn’t meant shit for almost a century.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:25 AM

So when will Jerry Brown send over an exploratory mission to see what CA can use of the Cypriot solution?

Limerick on March 26, 2013 at 10:26 AM

Unbelievable.

To do this now. This week of all times.

Marriage Equality is going to be a boon to the travel industry, and Cyprus is very LGB friendly.

Homophobia must be driving this financial crisis.

budfox on March 26, 2013 at 10:26 AM

It’s not the residency, it’s where the accounts are located. The accounts located in Cyprus are frozen while the banks there are closed. Laiki in the UK would have its own capital requirements. Remember, the UK is NOT part of the Euro.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:24 AM

Accounts aren’t “located” anywhere, Ed. I can have a bank account at TCF and withdraw my money from California despite being a resident in South Dakota. Maybe things are different in Europe than they are here, but freezing some accounts over others in the same bank is a gross violation of property rights as I understand the concept. Regardless, most money is just bits and bites on a digital balance sheet anyway. The concept of “the location of an account” itself went the way of the gold standard once we started international branch banking.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:28 AM

Maybe a banker out there can enlighten me. Just how is the location of the account itself determined for the purpose of deciding whether to freeze a “Cypriot” account?

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:29 AM

If Rushbo had half a brain he’s credited with, he’d organize a massive run on Bank of America long ago. Killing, or at least wounding, one of the head sponsors of the DNC is just an extra bonus.

Now, he has a perfect pretext, and no excuses. Do it, Rush!

Archivarix on March 26, 2013 at 10:30 AM

“It won’t happen here” is where you lose me. It may not happen here without severely violent repercussions, but just a few short months ago, we were all patting ourselves on the back thinking that the American people could never be stupid enough to re-elect Obama. But we did.

It can happen here. And I stand by my assertion that as soon as the politicians find a way to make it politically palatable enough to ensure there won’t be a nationwide bank run, it will.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM

There’s a big difference between 51% of the electorate giving a SCOAMF like Obama 4 more years and even half that number of Americans being ok with the government taking a cut of their life savings. It won’t happen here. They’ll come up with some other scheme. Quantitative easing they’re already doing. I could see them making a play for nationalizing 401ks. But seizing bank accounts? Won’t happen.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:30 AM

It won’t happen here though for one simple reason: the 2nd amendment. If the government ever tried a stunt like this, millions would descend on DC in anger and I don’t wanna imagine what would happen next.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM

No, there won’t be any riots in the streets because the people who typically use violence to get their way have little to no money in the banks. You will get mild protests and disorderly conduct as we saw in Greece and Cyprus, and that will be all.

We will not see actual riots until the EBT cards stop working and/or people are unable to put food on the table (be it by their own purchasing power or gov’t welfare). There will not be any riots if gold, gun, or bank deposit confiscation happens. It has not happened in any other country where the productive classes were stripped of their rights and assets, and it won’t happen here, either. You can take that to the, ahem, bank.

Doomberg on March 26, 2013 at 10:31 AM

The beginning of the end of private banks. If Europe can do this to 1) bad Russian oligarchs in 2) a shady private banking system, then the precedent has been set. Given that savings accounts in the US country are paying a paltry amount in interest, there is no sense in having a savings account anymore. Especially when it is subject to seizure.

rbj on March 26, 2013 at 10:31 AM

But seizing bank accounts? Won’t happen.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:30 AM

Right. This is getting cut-and-pasted into my “see-I-told-you-so” file.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:32 AM

Accounts aren’t “located” anywhere, Ed. I can have a bank account at TCF and withdraw my money from California despite being a resident in South Dakota. Maybe things are different in Europe than they are here, but freezing some accounts over others in the same bank is a gross violation of property rights as I understand the concept. Regardless, most money is just bits and bites on a digital balance sheet anyway. The concept of “the location of an account” itself went the way of the gold standard once we started international branch banking.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:28 AM

You realize that’s all in the same country, right? Using the same currency, and under the same federal regulation?

And when the feds shut down banks here, the accounts get frozen, too, for a short period of time until the collapse gets unwound — and those who have more deposited than the FDIC guaranteed amount can lose money, although it rarely happens.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

And the people who were wiped out, bad guys or not, what will they do now? I suppose I am trying to say for every action there is a reaction.

rob verdi on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:28 AM

The EU isn’t the US, and I am willing to bet that when the Cypriot deal was first announced, accounts based on Cypriot addresses in those banks were frozen solid.

You keep using that phrase, “property rights”. I do not think it means what you think it means, in regards to the EU (soon to come to the US as well, once the Dems begin seizing 401k’s and IRAs)…

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

There’s a big difference between 51% of the electorate giving a SCOAMF like Obama 4 more years and even half that number of Americans being ok with the government taking a cut of their life savings. It won’t happen here. They’ll come up with some other scheme. Quantitative easing they’re already doing. I could see them making a play for nationalizing 401ks. But seizing bank accounts? Won’t happen.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:30 AM

You’d be surprised. The willingness of American people to take it up the chute is a source of endless bewilderment to me, considering the amount of firepower they hold onto.

Archivarix on March 26, 2013 at 10:34 AM

That’s not a haircut — it’s an amputation

Hey Ed, the word you are looking for here is not amputation, it decapitation.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:35 AM

The high interest rates offered should have given the depositors an idea of the risk they were getting into…

astonerii on March 26, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Theft…simple term but that’s what I’d call it.

workingclass artist on March 26, 2013 at 10:36 AM

You realize that’s all in the same country, right? Using the same currency, and under the same federal regulation?

And when the feds shut down banks here, the accounts get frozen, too, for a short period of time until the collapse gets unwound — and those who have more deposited than the FDIC guaranteed amount can lose money, although it rarely happens.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

But what I’m wondering is, does Laiki have a presence in Cyprus, and if so, what standard do they use to decide which accounts to freeze and which to leave alone? It seems awfully arbitrary to me, but that shouldn’t surprise me considering that the EU and the Cypriot government are going to end up flipping private property owners the bird by the time it’s all said and done.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:37 AM

There are those in our country who have saved, and have built a nest egg. To those people, I say ‘congratulations.’ You have made the most of the life of privilege you were granted by luck and the randomness of birth.

Studies show that those who have a tendency to save are better educated than those who do not. Unfortunately, education has become prohibitively expensive, and many in our nation have not had the means, the education or the opportunity to establish any sort of savings.

In order to level the playing field, we will start a rainy-day fund for each of our nation’s non-savers. They deserve the same rights and benefits as those of us who were able to afford an education.

— B. Obama, some point in the near future.

This is how it’s coming.

Washington Nearsider on March 26, 2013 at 10:37 AM

You’d be surprised. The willingness of American people to take it up the chute is a source of endless bewilderment to me, considering the amount of firepower they hold onto.

Archivarix on March 26, 2013 at 10:34 AM

Seizing their money is something they won’t accept though. That’s when the sh-t will hit the fan. When the government starts hitting them up for money AFTER taxes. I’m not saying it won’t be proposed by politicians in DC. I’m just saying it’ll never come to pass because the outcry in response from the American people will get ugly.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

You keep using that phrase, “property rights”. I do not think it means what you think it means, in regards to the EU (soon to come to the US as well, once the Dems begin seizing 401k’s and IRAs)…

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Property rights are natural, Bub. Just because the EU is grinding them into dust doesn’t mean they cease to exist. “Inalienable” and all, ya know.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Seizing their money is something they won’t accept though. That’s when the sh-t will hit the fan. When the government starts hitting them up for money AFTER taxes. I’m not saying it won’t be proposed by politicians in DC. I’m just saying it’ll never come to pass because the outcry in response from the American people will get ugly.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

So naive. Good luck with that optimism.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:40 AM

They did not build those accounts! The community built those accounts and the community needs the money!/You Know Who

KW64 on March 26, 2013 at 10:40 AM

And the people who were wiped out, bad guys or not, what will they do now? I suppose I am trying to say for every action there is a reaction.

rob verdi on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Their capital gets quietly shifted away from EU banks and into places like Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, or Japan, Australia, and South Korea. With so much less money available to lend, the EU economy tanks.

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:41 AM

Unbelievable.

To do this now. This week of all times.

Marriage Equality is going to be a boon to the travel industry, and Cyprus is very LGB friendly.

Homophobia must be driving this financial crisis.

Seriously dude, you are going with this? Anyway, this is a mess. And watch the weenie Euros just roll over for it.

nyclakerfan on March 26, 2013 at 10:41 AM

So naive. Good luck with that optimism.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Ok, I’ll indulge. Let’s say Obama or whomever the President is at that point in time goes on national TV and says the feds need to seize 10-20% of people’s bank accounts. Let’s say it’s only for people with 50 grand or more deposited which allows class warfare demagoguery. Do you really think the public will just sit there and shrug their shoulders?

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:42 AM

2nd look at the evil Cayman banks?

Kissmygrits on March 26, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Ah, it seems I answered my own question here. Laiki freezed accounts of all Cypriot residents whose accounts contained any amount of Euros while leaving alone Cypriot residents and non-Cypriot residents whose accounts only contained Deutschemarks or British Pounds.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM

considering that the EU and the Cypriot government are going to end up flipping private property owners the bird by the time it’s all said and done.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:37 AM

Please keep in mind that the concept of “Property Rights” varies greatly from country to country.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Do you really think the public will just sit there and shrug their shoulders?

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Yup. Next question?

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM

Please keep in mind that the concept of “Property Rights” varies greatly from country to country.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM

It’s a natural right. “Inalienable” and all. Or are we going to start making excuses for the Euroweenies now?

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:45 AM

But what I’m wondering is, does Laiki have a presence in Cyprus, and if so, what standard do they use to decide which accounts to freeze and which to leave alone? It seems awfully arbitrary to me, but that shouldn’t surprise me considering that the EU and the Cypriot government are going to end up flipping private property owners the bird by the time it’s all said and done.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:37 AM

It’s really very simple. Accounts opened in Cyprus (at all banks not just Laiki) are frozen until Thursday. Accounts opened in the UK are handled in the UK in banks that have separate capital and regulation, in pounds sterling rather than the Euro. That’s why Laiki remains open in the UK for its depositors there; it’s really a separate bank in practical terms.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Seizing their money is something they won’t accept though. That’s when the sh-t will hit the fan. When the government starts hitting them up for money AFTER taxes. I’m not saying it won’t be proposed by politicians in DC. I’m just saying it’ll never come to pass because the outcry in response from the American people will get ugly.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

News alert for morons. They already do. 25% of my wealth creation is seized every paycheck to pay for deadbeats and degenerates, every single paycheck.
News alert for morons. The fed has a policy in place where the TARGET inflation is a minimum MINIMUM of 2% per year. That there is theft of my savings.

Trust me, Americans are compliant little morons. The reason certain words are not allowed on sites like this one. No way are we allowed to discuss plans for reasserting freedom in this nation, even on conservative web pages.

astonerii on March 26, 2013 at 10:46 AM

You keep using that phrase, “property rights”. I do not think it means what you think it means, in regards to the EU (soon to come to the US as well, once the Dems begin seizing 401k’s and IRAs)…

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Property rights are natural, Bub. Just because the EU is grinding them into dust doesn’t mean they cease to exist. “Inalienable” and all, ya know.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

According to who? Certainly not according to history. It’s most assuredly not a Marxist/Socialist/Communist concept.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:47 AM

There is no need to seize bank accounts if you control the currency like the US government. If you just print enough money to spend, it amounts to a tax on all savings and the US public will not likely revolt over inflation-caused diminution of their savings. Cyprus uses the Euro so they could not play that game.

KW64 on March 26, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Property rights are natural, Bub. Just because the EU is grinding them into dust doesn’t mean they cease to exist. “Inalienable” and all, ya know.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Not “inalienable” in the EU like the US (in a general sense); and as for the US, what the gross overstepping of the Constitution in regards to the expansion of the Commerce Clause began in the 1930′s is the conditioning of all three branches of the US Govt to accept the continual erosion of what we all once took for granted. Or have you forgotten that we just “celebrated” the eighth anniversary that lovely declaration of individual property rights gift wrapped by SCOTUS in Kelo vs New London?

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:48 AM

It’s really very simple. Accounts opened in Cyprus (at all banks not just Laiki) are frozen until Thursday. Accounts opened in the UK are handled in the UK in banks that have separate capital and regulation, in pounds sterling rather than the Euro. That’s why Laiki remains open in the UK for its depositors there; it’s really a separate bank in practical terms.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Yeah, the whole “different currencies” bit. That is why the EU will never be America-East.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:48 AM

There is no need to seize bank accounts if you control the currency like the US government. If you just print enough money to spend, it amounts to a tax on all savings and the US public will not likely revolt over inflation-caused diminution of their savings. Cyprus uses the Euro so they could not play that game.

KW64 on March 26, 2013 at 10:47 AM

That’s the same point Beppo Grillo made in Italy during the last election.

Ed Morrissey on March 26, 2013 at 10:49 AM

That’s when the sh-t will hit the fan. When the government starts hitting them up for money AFTER taxes.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM

We already lose money after it’s been taxed. We are taxed over and over again on the same money.

Earn a paycheck? Taxed.
Invest that check? Taxed.
Use that money to buy a house? Taxed.
Die, leaving that money to your son? Taxed.

That’s four different times the exact same dollar has been taxed, not counting sales taxes.

Where are the riots?

Washington Nearsider on March 26, 2013 at 10:49 AM

According to who? Certainly not according to history. It’s most assuredly not a Marxist/Socialist/Communist concept.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Given the gross ignorance of and disregard for the concept of natural rights that a solid majority of Americans show, I’m not really holding out hope that we have the spine to fight back against their infringement here, let alone in Europe.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Please keep in mind that the concept of “Property Rights” varies greatly from country to country.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:44 AM

It’s a natural right. “Inalienable” and all. Or are we going to start making excuses for the Euroweenies now?

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:45 AM

The Framer’s of the United States Constitution considered it an “Inalienable”, they did so precisely because the nations that they came from very specifically did not. You cannot apply American legal and ethical values to another country and expect to understand why they are making the decision that they are making.

Property Rights, are very profoundly not a historical natural or Inalienable, they have from a historical perspective been grants of temporary privilege employed exclusively for the purpose of binding the loyalty of the grant recipient to whomever was granting that privilege.

SWalker on March 26, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Where are the riots?

Washington Nearsider on March 26, 2013 at 10:49 AM

Yeah, I’m where you are. I keep hearing people say “When the riots hit” and I’m not sure they understand there won’t be any until we’ve completely collapsed. At this point the average citizen needs to look to the protection of himself or herself and their immediate family. I’m not sure there’s anything else we can do until after the dollar collapses.

Doomberg on March 26, 2013 at 10:55 AM

It’s a natural right. “Inalienable” and all. Or are we going to start making excuses for the Euroweenies now?

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:45 AM

No one is making excuses for them. The brutal fact is, no other country enshrines the concept of “inalienable rights” in quite the same way as does the United States of America. Nonetheless, a lot of people in the US have forgotten what that means, evidenced by the seemingly inexorable growth of the political Left and the size of the Federal government over the past couple decades.

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM

Man, if I had money in a Spanish or Italian bank, I would no longer have money in said Spanish or Italian bank tomorrow.

I’m considering my American bank accounts…

JohnGalt23 on March 26, 2013 at 10:17 AM

You mean, as per this?;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9952979/Cyprus-bail-out-savers-will-be-raided-to-save-euro-in-future-crises-says-eurozone-chief.html

As I said earlier, the purpose of this was to establish the precedent. And no solution that did not include the account seizures would be accepted by the EU;

Message to Cypriot legislature; No, your ‘no’ vote was not acceptable. You will continue voting until you get the result we demand.

Now that the precedent is duly enshrined in whatever passes for law in the EU, it’s going to be Katy bar the door.

I don’t expect a third European war in a century because of this. But when the bailouts stop coming and the accounts keep being seized anyway, I’ll be very surprised if there isn’t a replay of 1968. Only this time, it won’t just be in France, Greece, and Germany.

In fact, it could end up looking more like 1848.

clear ether

eon

eon on March 26, 2013 at 10:59 AM

That’s four different times the exact same dollar has been taxed, not counting sales taxes.

Where are the riots?

Washington Nearsider on March 26, 2013 at 10:49 AM

This isn’t a legal and philosophical question.

It is ideological and even biological.

Just watch how fast you raise the heat on the cooking frogs in the pot!

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:02 AM

This is the beginning of the end of private property rights, and I guaran-damn-tee you there are people on The Hill right now just salivating over ways to make it happen in America next.

While I don’t doubt that there are Democrats who would love to see this happen (especially to “fat cat” corporations), it won’t. Vile as many Democrats are, they typically don’t like committing electoral suicide. They could’ve passed single payer if they wanted to, but they didn’t because enough of them feared voters’ wrath. The uproar if they tried to pull something like this is unimaginable.

LukeinNE on March 26, 2013 at 11:04 AM

It doesn’t matter if the bulk of the confiscated funds are Russian. This is the beginning of the end of private property rights, and I guaran-damn-tee you there are people on The Hill right now just salivating over ways to make it happen in America next.

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:08 AM

The EU is already saying Italy and Spain may be next. The public statement that they are considering it and prior statements by Nancy Pelosi and others here in the US indicate IT WILL HAPPEN HERE.

Your money and your belongings are never safe from looters. They can decide at any time they need to take what is yours due to the greater good. Fascism doesn’t work either.

Is this why DHS is stocking up on hollow nose bullets, armored assault vehicles, drones and MREs?

(I just heard about the MREs this morning and haven’t investigated it yet)

Or are they just worried about a zombie apocalypse? (Or possibly just throwing money into some friendly pockets?)

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:04 AM

a lot of people in the US have forgotten what that means, evidenced by the seemingly inexorable growth of the political Left and the size of the Federal government over the past couple decades.

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 10:58 AM

You think Americans today care about our history when they need healthcare and free cell phones?

Ok, then..

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM

It won’t happen here though for one simple reason: the 2nd amendment. If the government ever tried a stunt like this, millions would descend on DC in anger and I don’t wanna imagine what would happen next.

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Not in a million years. The “American people” don’t even know what it means to be an American, nor do they have the courage to stand up to a government that is and has been for a very long time anti-American. I wish I could agree with you.

HiJack on March 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM

Trust me, Americans are compliant little morons. The reason certain words are not allowed on sites like this one. No way are we allowed to discuss plans for reasserting freedom in this nation, even on conservative web pages.

astonerii on March 26, 2013 at 10:46 AM

Texas Moves to Repatriate its Gold from the Federal Reserve

“Freshman Rep. Giovanni Capriglione, R-Southlake, is carrying a bill that would establish the Texas Bullion Depository, a secure state-based bank to house $1 billion worth of gold bars owned by the University of Texas Investment Management Co., or UTIMCO, and stored by the Federal Reserve.

“If you think gold is a hedge, or a protection, you always want it as close to the individual and the entity as possible,” Paul told The Texas Tribune on Thursday.” Texas is better served if it knows exactly where the gold is rather than depending on the security of the Federal Reserve.”

The highly political Governor also appears to be on board…

“If we own it,” Perry said, “I will suggest to you that that’s not someone else’s determination whether we can take possession of it back or not.”

“We don’t want just the certificates. We want our gold. And if you’re the state of Texas, you should be able to get your gold.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-23/texas-wants-its-gold-back-fed

workingclass artist on March 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM

Is this why DHS is stocking up on hollow nose bullets, armored assault vehicles, drones and MREs?

They just bought more 140 grain hollow points? Like 240 million rounds? For practice?

This doesn’t look good, boys.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM

It won’t happen here though for one simple reason: the 2nd amendment. If the government ever tried a stunt like this, millions would descend on DC in anger and I don’t wanna imagine what would happen next.
 
Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:10 AM

 
+1 to “it’s already happened here”.
 
QE was mentioned. The smart, debtless, money saving people watch their dollars lose value, and the idiots who don’t have a penny in the bank get more worth-less dollars to more easily pay down loans where they over-extended themselves. Remember the mortgage bailouts?
 
The loan values have eecreased with inflation, so the smart are punished and the dumb are rewarded.
 
QE is an unanswerable tax increase, nothing else. Has it stopped yet?

rogerb on March 26, 2013 at 11:08 AM

workingclass artist on March 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM

Got land there.
No job there.
Someday I will return.

astonerii on March 26, 2013 at 11:09 AM

Lets not forget who’s money is really at stake here.

Its the Russians. The really rich and powerful ones. The ones who have the power to stop that insanity.

Does anyone believe Putin will just take this on the chin and say “as long its just a one-time deal…go ahead and take half my money”?

BobMbx on March 26, 2013 at 11:10 AM

Not in a million years. The “American people” don’t even know what it means to be an American, nor do they have the courage to stand up to a government that is and has been for a very long time anti-American. I wish I could agree with you.

HiJack on March 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM

You better believe it!

Have you checked the ammo these dudes have?

OMG!Look above:

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:04 AM

I am calling my daughter and telling her to get more liberal, darker and more Democrat. Maybe she can quit her job, quit school and even marry a big black guy and fast!

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM

That is weird! Who target practices with 140 grain HPs in semi autos?

FMJs I would think.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:13 AM

gryphon202 on March 26, 2013 at 10:28 AM

Sorry, mate, but you are incorrect in your extrapolation of different states to different countries: I have accounts in the same bank in two different countries. My banking and credit in one country has absolutely no bearing on banking and credit in the other country, even though the name of the bank is the same.

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 11:19 AM

Ok, I’ll indulge. Let’s say Obama or whomever the President is at that point in time goes on national TV and says the feds need to seize 10-20% of people’s bank accounts. Let’s say it’s only for people with 50 grand or more deposited which allows class warfare demagoguery. Do you really think the public will just sit there and shrug their shoulders?

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Yes. In fact, I’d bet the farm on it. How many people have fifty grand in savings? Better yet, how many people have any large amount of money in savings when all they’re getting is a small fraction of a percent of interest? That leaves very few people who would be affected, but even so, most people are sheep, anyway. I’d be the farm that the response would be negligible.

HiJack on March 26, 2013 at 11:20 AM

They just bought more 140 grain hollow points? Like 240 million rounds? For practice?

This doesn’t look good, boys.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:07 AM

Yes, they just bought more. No one uses Hollow nose for target practice.

There are reports DHS is stockpiling food too. I am trying to track down credible sources on that.

Did anyone read reports of FEMA handing out MREs in the aftermath of superstorm Sandy? Just asking.

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:21 AM

It might make sense to keep money in the bank, if you could earn a decent rate of interest. But even the online banks like Ally and Everbank and Bank of Internet are paying a measly < 1%. So you don't even keep up with inflation.

At this point, I'm moving some of my savings into REIT stocks. At least I can earn a little dividend income instead of just watching Washington print my money into dust.

JoseQuinones on March 26, 2013 at 11:21 AM

I would love to try to explain that kind of stocking up as a conservative individual to law enforcement.

I can vouch for the fact that there is a tradition of fear among New England liberals concerning the arms held in flyover country. I talk to them. Just having FBI, ATF and local police wasn’t enough.

It was Pres. Bush who gave them the Patriot Act and TSA and DHS and things will never be the same.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:21 AM

Doughboy on March 26, 2013 at 10:42 AM

HiJack on March 26, 2013 at 11:20 AM

The cutoff would not be so low, FDIC insures individual deposits up to $250K. Anything above that would be up for grabs.

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM

Have we ever had a terrorist act in this nation’s territory that required more than a thirty round mag or two to end?

I can’t think of any.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:11 AM

I use the term “looter” to refer to the socialist jack booted liberal elites.

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM

Lose?

LOSE?!!!!

Those investors aren’t losing their savings; their savings are being STOLEN.

PackerBronco on March 26, 2013 at 11:26 AM

Have we ever had a terrorist act in this nation’s territory that required more than a thirty round mag or two to end?

I can’t think of any.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM

Well yes, actually:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:26 AM

Did anyone read reports of FEMA handing out MREs in the aftermath of superstorm Sandy? Just asking.

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:21 AM

Yes, they did hand out food. Stocks of that are not nearly as big a worry as bureaucrats with badges and tons of ammo.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:26 AM

And then there were the bonus riots after world war one, where Douglas MacArthur and Patton took forces against US citizens.

Were those veterans terrorists?

Were Native Americans terrorists?

Were the Branch Dividians terrorists?

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:28 AM

Have we ever had a terrorist act in this nation’s territory that required more than a thirty round mag or two to end?

I can’t think of any.

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM

It takes more than guns and ammo. When the adrenaline is rushing it takes nerves of steal to keep the hands from shaking when the blood is flowing to vital organs. That’s why people must practice relentlessly in combat-like situations to get used to the effects of an adrenaline rush.

HiJack on March 26, 2013 at 11:28 AM

IlikedAUH2O on March 26, 2013 at 11:26 AM

Yeah, I agree.

dogsoldier on March 26, 2013 at 11:29 AM

This won’t happen openly in the US because it can be done surrupticiously through Quantitative Easings.

And even if done openly, the rioting classes don’t have large bank deposits that would be raided.

krome on March 26, 2013 at 11:35 AM

The cutoff would not be so low, FDIC insures individual deposits up to $250K. Anything above that would be up for grabs.

Wanderlust on March 26, 2013 at 11:24 AM

Re-write the FDIC laws. Presto change-o!

These laws were written for a different time, and must be updated to reflect the new reality.
— B. Obama, sometime in the near future

Washington Nearsider on March 26, 2013 at 11:36 AM

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