Scott Walker vs the world

posted at 4:01 pm on March 23, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Did you have Wisconsin in your bracket? No… I don’t mean your Sweet Sixteen. I’m talking about the pool to predict the Republican most likely to tick off the entire political world in the shortest period of time. If you did, then Scott Walker may just be your golden ticket.

Get ready for the battle over school vouchers in Wisconsin.

As local school officials, the state’s top school administrator, and even GOP Senate leaders slam Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to expand vouchers to nine school districts — including Madison — Walker is reiterating his determination to ”empower parents to make decisions regarding their children’s education.”

And influential former GOP leaders are suiting up to lobby for Walker’s plan to make more public school districts offer a voucher option, in which parents can get state funds to help send their children to private schools.

You know, it’s kind of ironic how there are so many people who are all about “choice” in America and the rights of citizens to chart their own course until you start talking about the state or local government making it easier for them to make choices regarding the education of the next generation. Being of a more libertarian bent, I tend to support a variety of choices which aren’t even popular among my own “tribe” in various social contests, but you’d think this one would be a no-brainer. There isn’t a single debate for any office which takes place without one or the other candidate bemoaning the sad state of American education and the need to improve the chances of the next generation. Why is this so different?

You want parents to have choices as to which church – if any – their children attend. You want them to have choices about who they marry or who their kids can marry. You want them to be able to choose healthier foods and habits if they wish. But when the subject turns to the universally agreed upon, important topic of education, choice is a bad thing. If you live in an area with substandard or failing schools, allowing the state government to offer a bit of a leg up to send them someplace else where they might stand a chance to make it into a good college or other career path is… bad?

Can somebody explain this one for me, please?


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The horror is that some parents might actually choose to remove their children from the tender mercies of the teachers union. And enough experience with that sort of heresy might just begin to bring into question the entire theory of the Prussian model of public education that’s been enshrined as sacrosanct for over 100 years.
We cannot tolerate such an outrage!!!!

Lew on March 23, 2013 at 4:08 PM

Scott Walker, is. What other “conservatives” (excepting Cruz) claim they are.

traye on March 23, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Walker has said repeatedly he opposes abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. He declares himself “100 percent pro-life.” So, he’s going to get the “100% pro-life” vote.

anotherJoe on March 23, 2013 at 4:11 PM

As local school officials, the state’s top school administrator, and even GOP Senate leaders slam Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to expand vouchers to nine school districts — including Madison — Walker is reiterating his determination to ”empower parents to make decisions regarding their children’s education.”

WTF? Why are WI GOP Senators attacking Walker over a simple school voucher bill? I thought that was something even the squishiest of the centrist squishes could agree on?

Robert_Paulson on March 23, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Interesting. This guy is no Kasic.

pat on March 23, 2013 at 4:14 PM

All he has to do is use his southern neighbors – namely Chi town – as shining examples of FAILURE.
If people still don’t care enough, looking at it through that perspective……….then they will repeat the fail.

FlaMurph on March 23, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Go Scott Walker!

22044 on March 23, 2013 at 4:17 PM

Can somebody explain this one for me, please?

For the same reason we now have Obamacare…..control.

If the leftists lost control of the education system, well it might just bring an end to the progressive era. And it is high time the progressives were challenged. Their ideas are failures. They have been able to sell a dumbed down America for almost a hundred years on ideas that sound great. In reality all the progressives want is power and the perks that come with them…..

Joe Biden ringing up $500,000 hotel bills on the tax payer dime is not an accident…..

redguy on March 23, 2013 at 4:17 PM

Vouchers are fine as long as there is oversight and certain state-mandated standards are met. This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

School vouchers = income redistribution with a different name.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Isn’t there a state somewhere in the union conservative enough to just go ahead with vouchers?
Utah? Texas? I mean, come on, make it happen, people!

Count to 10 on March 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Good for him.

Even if those schools aren’t failing, the need to actually compete for education money will be a good thing. The government education near-monopoly has allowed the unfettered growth of a bureaucratic, unresponsive, and indoctrination rather than education oriented system.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:23 PM

You know.. Scott Walker is a hero.

Has Boehner ever even mentioned his name once?

Why don’t these Republican consultants talk about Gov. Walker being the future of the Republican party? It’s like he doesn’t exist.

Scott Walker has been persevering and winning in spite of death threats and mobs and the Democrat party fleeing the state… and still he wins! He went through a recall and won bigger then his first time around… he should be a model for the party.

Has Boehner ever played golf with him? Has McCain or Lindsey Graham ever had dinner with him?

Yeah, I know.. they’re in congress and Walker is a governor on the other side of the country but you’d think they’d want to acknowledge the success he has had.

Quite frankly, I think some in the establishment is embarrassed of him and wishes he had lost.

JellyToast on March 23, 2013 at 4:24 PM

To misquote a famous comedian – “Personal responsibility – what a concept!”

platypus on March 23, 2013 at 4:24 PM

My name is Walker.

BigGator5 on March 23, 2013 at 4:25 PM

Vouchers are fine as long as there is oversight and certain state-mandated standards are met. This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

.
I bet your thinking… Solyndra right about now.

FlaMurph on March 23, 2013 at 4:30 PM

The real point here is that it is NOT the responsibility of the modern integrated mega-state to educate your children. It’s YOUR responsibility as a parent to use whatever resources you can find, including those provided by the state, to procure a decent education for your children. And YOU are the sole arbitrator of the term “decent”.

Lew on March 23, 2013 at 4:31 PM

Vouchers are fine as long as there is oversight and certain state-mandated standards are met. This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Problem is how those state mandated standards are set and who sets them. With highways and other such things, it’s pretty easy to set standards that are measurable. With education standards, most of us could pretty easily agree that certain reading, writing, and mathematical standards could easily be set. When it comes to other subjects, things get more dicey and philosophical. For example, what if the state and/or standards board is controlled in the future by liberals and determines that the science standards require the teaching that humans are destroying the planet and that AGW is an established scientific fact? Social studies is an even bigger hairball wherein a radical standards body could push requirements for diversity studies, ethnic and gender-related studies, etc.

Not arguing that some standards are not useful, just that letting the same bunch that ruined the public education system set the standards is not exactly a winning strategy.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:33 PM

As local school officials, the state’s top school administrator, and even GOP Senate leaders slam Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to expand vouchers to nine school districts — including Madison — Walker is reiterating his determination to ”empower parents to make decisions regarding their children’s education.”

…GOP?…Senate leaders! …get rid of the pricks!

KOOLAID2 on March 23, 2013 at 4:36 PM

This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

I agree.
Just like the leftists infiltrated the tea party and other organizations, they will try to make the system look like a failure, to sabotage the whole concept.

Mimzey on March 23, 2013 at 4:36 PM

Has Boehner ever played golf with him? Has McCain or Lindsey Graham ever had dinner with him?

They’ll start being seen in public with Scott Walker when they start thinking he’ll help them get re-elected. Right now, he scares the pants off these little small-ball hitters. The truth is, they aren’t at all dissatisfied with the status quo. All they want to do is stay in power.
They’re all kind of like bus drivers – they don’t care where the bus is going, they just want to drive!

Lew on March 23, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Here’s the problem with School Choice the way most gop plans want to do it.

A “voucher” from the state would probably come with…STRINGS.

Kind of like Bush 41 and his “thousand points of light” partnering with the FedGov (but actually just turning them into teaters dependent and moldable by some agency head or member of Congress, etc.).

How about just giving us the option to reduce our property taxes if we don’t have kids in public schools?

How about giving everyone a voucher with children that are school age and letting them take the voucher to reduce their state or local tax bills?


I might almost……..ALMOST………forgive Walker for being pro-Amnesty.

PappyD61 on March 23, 2013 at 4:37 PM

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Couldn’t it be as simple as letting vouchers be available for any school that is allowed to issue a diploma?

Scott Walker is a stud – he really should be at the top of the 2016 list for potential candidates IMHO when you look at all he’s done and the kind of leadership he’s shown on these issues.

MikeknaJ on March 23, 2013 at 4:38 PM

, and even GOP Senate leaders slam Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to expand vouchers

…GOP?…Senate leaders?……get rid of the pr!ck$…

KOOLAID2 on March 23, 2013 at 4:39 PM

School vouchers = income redistribution with a different name.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Umm, no. Taxes paid to fund school districts, most notably through property taxes; that equals income redistribution. Especially since those taxes are paid by people whether or not they have children in a government school system. Vouchers = allowing parents to use their school taxes to fund the education of their children in the way they see fit. That’s the real problem, people of modest means wind up paying taxes to fund the local school districts that are now nothing more than marxist statist indoctrination centers and are unable to pay for a private education for their children. By allowing them to direct where those tax dollars get spent, the parents can find the education they desire for their children as well as make the indoctrination centers have to actually compete for those tax dollars by offering a good education rather than indoctrination. Many low information voters will probably still choose the state indoctrination centers simply out of convenience, but others will take the opportunity to provide a real education for their children.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:40 PM

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:40 PM

People who don’t directly pay property taxes can get a voucher too.

So, what you’re saying is, you are in favor of government taxing your dollars, then giving it back to you to spend.

Interesting.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Vouchers = allowing parents to use their school taxes to fund the education of their children in the way they see fit.

Yes! That’s the essential feature of any free market that infuriates the left. It puts the ordinary consumer in charge of success or failure of the educational institution.
It is the ultimate liberal nightmare – the great unwashed masses of peasants deciding the fate of highly trained and supremely enlightened scholars, by whatever standards the peasantry may have. It is a horror beyond the most ghastly imagining!

Lew on March 23, 2013 at 4:46 PM

Interesting.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Small potatoes..imo the goal is to break the back of the union indoctrination system.

Mimzey on March 23, 2013 at 4:47 PM

So, what you’re saying is, you are in favor of government taxing your dollars, then giving it back to you to spend.

Good point! Let’s improve it by giving a direct credit against property taxes for tuition expense. That way we wouldn’t have to wash it through a corrupt bureaucracy (an inherent redundancy?) to accomplish the intent. I like it!

Lew on March 23, 2013 at 4:49 PM

He’s the guy I want. And why is Pope Francis resigning?

Rusty Allen on March 23, 2013 at 4:50 PM

i have no idea on the accuracy of this vid..Dana Loesch is the narrator

it is about WI and the teachers. Rs need to stop patting themselves on the back and learn and research what is true and not. Our future is in the hands of ‘educators’ who may have a 100 percent different world view…and they have the power, conservatives don’t

r keller on March 23, 2013 at 4:54 PM

Can somebody explain this one for me, please?

Oooooooooooh, that’s racist!!

/s

RealMc on March 23, 2013 at 4:56 PM

, and even GOP Senate leaders slam Gov. Scott Walker’s plan to expand vouchers

…GOP?…Senate leaders?……get rid of the pr!ck$…

KOOLAID2 on March 23, 2013 at 4:39 PM
…sorry!…the 4:36 one…I thought was eaten in moderation for the pr!ck$ word

KOOLAID2 on March 23, 2013 at 5:02 PM

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:40 PM

People who don’t directly pay property taxes can get a voucher too.

If you live somewhere, work somewhere, or buy goods and services somewhere, you are paying property taxes. Maybe not directly; if you rent, your rent has to cover the property taxes, so you are paying property taxes.

In addition, other taxes are also funding state indoctrination centers as well. Property taxes, state income taxes, etc.

So, what you’re saying is, you are in favor of government taxing your dollars, then giving it back to you to spend.

Interesting.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Interesting dishonest twisting of what I wrote. What I wrote is the fact that people are paying those taxes. Now. … and those taxes are directly for the support of the state indoctrination centers. … and parents have zero choice in paying those taxes, likewise for those who don’t even have children in school. … and the fact that parents are paying those taxes means less money available for them to pay their own funds for private education. Those are the facts. That is the reality of now.

Vouchers are a means of providing parents with school age children to choose where their children attend school. Since it appears that society has determined that education is to be provided to all, rich and poor alike and that everybody in society must help finance that education system, then vouchers at least provide choice for parents who seek a better education for their children.

If you envision a world in which parents wouldn’t be paying those taxes and would thus have that money available to pay for private education, that’s fine. But that’s not now, that’s not reality.

If you are saying the government should not be funding education at all and that parents need to be paying for the education of their children, that’s a different discussion. Again that’s not now, that’s not reality.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:02 PM

If you live somewhere, work somewhere, or buy goods and services somewhere, you are paying property taxes. Maybe not directly; if you rent, your rent has to cover the property taxes, so you are paying property taxes.

This is the same reasoning that liberals use to give people a negative income tax rate. They pay “some sort” of taxes, therefore giving them more money than they pay in income taxes is okay.

How does it feel?

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 5:09 PM

Vouchers are fine as long as there is oversight and certain state-mandated standards are met. This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

.
I bet your thinking… Solyndra right about now.

FlaMurph on March 23, 2013 at 4:30 PM

Somewhat…but I’m not sure that Solyndra was actually contracting for the government? That is, they weren’t making solar panels to be used on Federal buildings? If not, then definitely “no”. Seems like the money was just handed to them in order to fulfill a Leftist ideological agenda, and more realistically some kind of kickback or money-laundering operation.

And such malfeasance isn’t the sole realm of the Dimocrats, either-in Florida the Republican legislature handed millions over to a video production company (who at least were supposed to do a job for the state) in south Florida, but that company folded a few months afterwards and now that money’s gone-stinks to high heaven.

I agree.
Just like the leftists infiltrated the tea party and other organizations, they will try to make the system look like a failure, to sabotage the whole concept.

Mimzey on March 23, 2013 at 4:36 PM

Something’s definitely happened to the TEA Party movement. Came roaring in like lions, now it seems they are largely asking for money…where are the rallies? I haven’t given up on the TEA Party yet, but I suspected from the beginning that they would be co-opted by others and that individuals from within might be tainted by the sudden rise to political power.

Problem is how those state mandated standards are set and who sets them. With highways and other such things, it’s pretty easy to set standards that are measurable. With education standards, most of us could pretty easily agree that certain reading, writing, and mathematical standards could easily be set. When it comes to other subjects, things get more dicey and philosophical. For example, what if the state and/or standards board is controlled in the future by liberals and determines that the science standards require the teaching that humans are destroying the planet and that AGW is an established scientific fact? Social studies is an even bigger hairball wherein a radical standards body could push requirements for diversity studies, ethnic and gender-related studies, etc.

Not arguing that some standards are not useful, just that letting the same bunch that ruined the public education system set the standards is not exactly a winning strategy.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Sure, and to be fair there are problems with absolutely defining good and bad teachers for the same reason-no excuse for the obvious dead wood to be collecting a paycheck though, and it would behoove these unions to stop their knee-jerk defense of those that are a blight to their profession. However, some of these union “leaders” I saw up in Chicago were, uh, don’t know how to describe them? Pretty apparent that teachers unions aren’t run by calculus and physics teachers…in fact, not many of them end up being principals or school board members either from what I’ve seen.

As to accountability it would certainly include the money aspect, as well as having “vouchered” students take any mandatory state achievement tests. Keep in mind that private education companies are no different than others-they are businesses and will market themselves as the best school evah whether they are or aren’t in order to increase revenue. In my view, not really the best way to go concerning a child’s education. But there is such an appalling lack of accountability in the public education system that may not be really fair.

In short, if people (parents, students, unions, administrators, teachers, politicians) would simply do the RIGHT THING then we wouldn’t have these problems. Either the kid knows how read or he doesn’t. There’s too much time and money wrapped up in all this to allow people to obtain diplomas and degrees who really don’t know squat.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Their best argument is that it will take money from the schools that need it most. But every smart person knows it’s all about union/teacher power.

Donald Draper on March 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Can somebody explain this one for me, please?

Sure, but probably someone else did a better job, but just in case:

You are allowed to choose as long as it involves unions and the government.

If private schools had union/government involvement there’d be no issue. Of course, it would be as cruddy as the public options, but no one talks about that.

kim roy on March 23, 2013 at 5:15 PM

The real point here is that it is NOT the responsibility of the modern integrated mega-state to educate your children. It’s YOUR responsibility as a parent to use whatever resources you can find, including those provided by the state, to procure a decent education for your children. And YOU are the sole arbitrator of the term “decent”.

Lew on March 23, 2013 at 4:31 PM

I love what you said. It’s 100% spot on. My first thought was, though, you must be new to politics and society.

Personal responsibility and being an adult has been a nonissue and something to crush upon sight.

Maybe one day your paragraph will be the standard and not “what used to be”. :)

kim roy on March 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM

School vouchers = income redistribution with a different name.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Could be. But I think you could make an argument that any government spending is a form of wealth redistribution-be it through infrastructure contracting, defense contracting, education contracting/vouchers, whatever.

And we have to be honest-not even very Conservative areas of the country are happy when BRAC comes around and takes a hard look at their local military installation.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 5:20 PM

School vouchers = income redistribution with a different name.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Umm, no. Taxes paid to fund school districts, most notably through property taxes; that equals income redistribution. Especially since those taxes are paid by people whether or not they have children in a government school system. Vouchers = allowing parents to use their school taxes to fund the education of their children in the way they see fit. That’s the real problem, people of modest means wind up paying taxes to fund the local school districts that are now nothing more than marxist statist indoctrination centers and are unable to pay for a private education for their children. By allowing them to direct where those tax dollars get spent, the parents can find the education they desire for their children as well as make the indoctrination centers have to actually compete for those tax dollars by offering a good education rather than indoctrination. Many low information voters will probably still choose the state indoctrination centers simply out of convenience, but others will take the opportunity to provide a real education for their children.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:40 PM

And one of the worst examples of how citizen tax dollars are
misspent on education is with the Chicago school districts. Real estate taxes are some of the highest and education has some of the lowest results. The money goes to administrative offices and
salaries and to keep union pensions high. Program and teacher expense budgets and the students suffer. However, it must be said that Chicago also has some of the worst teachers in the state.

Amjean on March 23, 2013 at 5:22 PM

No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Not really sure what your point is? Most states using a bidding process to award contracts to private contractors to build highways and many other things. If you are suggesting the same for education then I could get behind that also.

chemman on March 23, 2013 at 5:23 PM

This is the same reasoning that liberals use to give people a negative income tax rate. They pay “some sort” of taxes, therefore giving them more money than they pay in income taxes is okay.

How does it feel?

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 5:09 PM

Had never seen you engage in trollish behavior before. It is not becoming.

You know darn well what was meant in my postings and what it is responding to. The propriety of society funding education for all is a completely different topic from the issue of using the current education funding mechanism to provide parents choices in how their children are educated. That is no more me speaking in favor of wealth redistribution than making statements in how the state builds and maintains roads that many will never drive on. If you want to argue for dismantling the entire societal support for education, that’s fine, go ahead and do so, recognizing that these should be state and local issues, not federal. However, don’t try to do so by dishonestly twisting my words to make them into some sort of support for nanny state redistribution. As for this thread, I’m done with ya; you can continue to make whatever twisting of my words suits you.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:25 PM

School vouchers = income redistribution with a different name.

Discuss.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:40 PM

Here in the liberal unicorn utopia that is jersey, we have “abbott” districts–brought to us by our own state “supremes.”

The abbotts (designated low-income by the know-it-alls in trenton) literally take tax dollars from the more affluent districts and spend it in the abbotts (been going on for decades–the unions own this state.)

The results have been catastrophic. It’s why jersey has the highest cumulative taxes in the nation (eg. when hubby and I moved here in ’87, the reason was two-fold: lower taxes and good schools (kidlet was 10 at the time.) Now? Taxes have tripled and the municipal council is still beholden to the board of ed.

If it weren’t for one more set of parents, we’d be out of here in a flash. I thank God we taught that kid of ours to never be a government ‘gimmedat.’

Some day we’ll leave this I’m-not-even-sure what to call it any longer; maybe we’ll even get a sailboat and drift on the ocean. If you see us floating by, be sure to wave :)

jersey taxpayer on March 23, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Give me your children until they are 15 and they are mine forever.

“Can somebody explain this one for me, please?”

The lefties want to indoctrinate the next generation. They’ve decided the way to win politically is to steal the next generation from their parents. The socialist utopia requires properly indoctrinated citizens, and the public schools will be the ones which turn them out.

If parents can pull their children out of the public schools, then this project fails, and progress towards establishing the world socialist utopia could be set back decades.

Steven Den Beste on March 23, 2013 at 5:27 PM

No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Not really sure what your point is? Most states using a bidding process to award contracts to private contractors to build highways and many other things. If you are suggesting the same for education then I could get behind that also.

chemman on March 23, 2013 at 5:23 PM

Well, what I mean is after the road is built, is there someone checking to make sure the road was built properly (or at all…LOL)? If there are deficiencies, is the contractor made to fix them? I would surely hope so.

Don’t know about where you all live, but I can’t believe these roads around here. They look OK, but it’s pretty obvious that the cement curbs aren’t properly aligned…hell, the paint isn’t even straight. And after they “finish” a road, there’s some kind of seem between the two lanes, and I wonder, “Is this road really done yet?” And it’s still the same way months later, so then I figure that’s as good as it gets.

We’ve all seen things built 50+ years ago in this country that hasn’t been torn down yet. There’s an obvious lack of standards and quality in everything from road engineering to construction. One of my grandfathers was a building contractor-he would not have had this attitude of, “Well, this is all they’re paying me so I’m going to slack off on standards.” No. Way. His structures were a reflection upon his good name, and he insisted his workers build everything perfectly.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 5:34 PM

Isn’t there a state somewhere in the union conservative enough to just go ahead with vouchers?
Utah? Texas? I mean, come on, make it happen, people!

Count to 10 on March 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM

In Texas, the problem is that the house is run by a squish and we can’t get him out of there. The TEA Party has tried to remove him the last two cycles and failed both times.

Odysseus on March 23, 2013 at 5:36 PM

As to accountability it would certainly include the money aspect, as well as having “vouchered” students take any mandatory state achievement tests. …

There is a problem with that however. Those mandatory state achievement tests can be twisted to meet the requirements of the indoctrination state. Certainly testing reading and arithmetic skills seems reasonable. But now extend that to history or social studies. Nobody (I think) would argue with a history question such as:

In what year did the USA declare independence?
A) 1650
B) 1776
C) 1812
D) 1976

However, if the state indoctrinators have control, you could see questions like:

Azatlan describes what?
A) The legendary ancestral home of the Nahua peoples, one of the main cultural groups in Mesoamerica
B) The area of the Southwest USA annexed by the US from Mexico following the Texas annexation
C) An ancient ruin site in Mexico

A would be the precise answer, B would be the “correct” answer chosen by the statists and taught in the indoctrination centers.

Science could have equally “progressive” questions. Think about pollution, EPA, endangered species and AGW questions that could populate the “achievement” test instrument.

Enough of these kinds of questions could lead to the private schools to receive lower test scores and not meet “state standards” unless those private schools also became indoctrination centers as well in order to meet those standards.

In short, if people (parents, students, unions, administrators, teachers, politicians) would simply do the RIGHT THING then we wouldn’t have these problems. Either the kid knows how read or he doesn’t. There’s too much time and money wrapped up in all this to allow people to obtain diplomas and degrees who really don’t know squat.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM

No disagreement with you there.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:41 PM

The lefties want to indoctrinate the next generation. They’ve decided the way to win politically is to steal the next generation from their parents. The socialist utopia requires properly indoctrinated citizens, and the public schools will be the ones which turn them out.

If parents can pull their children out of the public schools, then this project fails, and progress towards establishing the world socialist utopia could be set back decades.

Steven Den Beste on March 23, 2013 at 5:27 PM

This ^ post bears repeating.

Bravo, SDB.

The ONLY way to save this nation and the future of our children is to start from the bottom up (ie, parents taking control of their childrens’ education) because that is precisely the way the way the destruction began.

If (and that’s a huge if, considering the rate of one-parent households today and the rate of babies being born to unwed mothers) parents today would see through any party lines and demand they have the right to determine which school their child be educated by, the tables turn big time.

Then, and only then, will we truly be on track to set the unicorns back decades.

jersey taxpayer on March 23, 2013 at 5:47 PM

If you are saying the government should not be funding education at all and that parents need to be paying for the education of their children, that’s a different discussion. Again that’s not now, that’s not reality.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Not so long ago, public education was the responsibility of locales: towns funded their own, parents contended with elected school boards and hired teachers and that’s where and how quality or lack of it transpired.

Then the cities with increased urban populations claimed they deserved what the suburbs and towns built for themselves, so the “state” stepped in with unions and the “one size fits all paid for by those who pay more for those who aren’t paying much if any”…

…and the (Leftwing) model surged complete with teachers unions. Parents and taxpaying parents lost their voice, no one listened, even when they paid, public education was ruined (and still is).

All that to “make things fair” for people who aren’t involved in their children’s educational experiences, or don’t want to be, either financially or academically/intellectually/ethically. Their growing populations has now insisted on the “national” model to supersede the state model which superseded individual parents’.

Walker is trying to return the voice to the parents, to the individuals. He should be supported by the GOP and voters if for this reason alone (while I still disagree with his views on amnesty). Vouchers enable individuals to at least again exercise their own decisions about where their children are educated and how.

Because the “public” and/or “union” (state and now federal) insistence on controlling public education has been grabbed by the Left and is being used by the Left (“nationalized”) (“socialist”) to indoctrinate as all Left/Socialist socio-politically involved are wont to do…meaning, I think they’re defined by such insistence and should not be expected to change as long as they’re towing the Leftwing/Socialist socio-political ideas.

But that revision of undoing even a bit of Leftwing/Socialist/Nationalist control of public education really threatens one of the rudimentary tools the Left needs: to control public education, because it’s their surefire method to indoctrinating vulnerable, gullible youth.

Is that at least some degree of explanation?

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 5:47 PM

The lefties want to indoctrinate the next generation. They’ve decided the way to win politically is to steal the next generation from their parents. The socialist utopia requires properly indoctrinated citizens, and the public schools will be the ones which turn them out.

If parents can pull their children out of the public schools, then this project fails, and progress towards establishing the world socialist utopia could be set back decades.

Steven Den Beste on March 23, 2013 at 5:27 PM

Absolutely correct and what I was expressing at 5:47, too.

Also explains why the Left — including Progressives among the GOP — is so intent on denigrating the idea of school vouchers: because it returns control to individual parents for their childrens’ education and THAT rocks the Left’s Indoctrination Boat.

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Can somebody explain this one for me, please?

For the same reason we now have Obamacare…..control.

Exactly right. Parents making their own decisions about their children’s education? People thinking for themselves? That’s DANGEROUS, man.

I’ll bet you a dollar to a donut that most of the anti-voucher people are PRO high-speed rail. And I’ll bet you two dollars to a donut that ALL people serving on the board of a condo association are pro high-speed rail AND anti-voucher. It’s control, plain and simple. People just don’t know what’s good for them, you see….

Owen Glendower on March 23, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Teachers unions, other involved unions (SEIU among those — which also is why Michelle Obama has been so involved in the whole “cafeteria food” thing, it’s not out of concern for the kids it’s out of concern about pushing ‘more’ for SEIU and other unions), have the public school system under their control.

There has to be a way to allow unions (my concession) to exist and function without their ability to usurp parental, individual parental control of where their taxpayer money goes and how it’s spent.

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 5:54 PM

So, what you’re saying is, you are in favor of government taxing your dollars, then giving it back to you to spend.

Interesting.

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:43 PM

So, what you’re saying is, you’re in favor of just leaving children in a failing system to be indoctrinated as good little socialists rather than be educated to become productive adults.

Interesting.

Solaratov on March 23, 2013 at 5:55 PM

But that revision of undoing even a bit of Leftwing/Socialist/Nationalist control of public education really threatens one of the rudimentary tools the Left needs: to control public education, because it’s their surefire method to indoctrinating vulnerable, gullible youth.

Is that at least some degree of explanation?

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 5:47 PM

Don’t disagree with you on that at all. The move from local to state to federal has been disconcerting and we’ve seen court rulings that required money be equitably allocated from one area of the state to poorer areas. That seems to be a different discussion though than whether parents should receive a voucher to send their children to a local public or private school at their choice rather than being forced to have to send their child to the local public school system or have to pay even more of their money to both support the public school system with their taxes and pay tuition for a private education.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:55 PM

Parents making their own decisions about their children’s education? People thinking for themselves? That’s DANGEROUS, man.

I’ll bet you a dollar to a donut that most of the anti-voucher people are PRO high-speed rail. And I’ll bet you two dollars to a donut that ALL people serving on the board of a condo association are pro high-speed rail AND anti-voucher. It’s control, plain and simple. People just don’t know what’s good for them, you see….

Owen Glendower on March 23, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Control in the sense that they are receiving more from whomever else than they are producing themselves. Many urban people, parents, are not paying many taxes but make a big financial demand on public education even when they’re not involved in quality and content of public education. They actually engage in a passive-aggressive level of “control” of others by insisting on “fairness” which literally means, “give me more of what you have because I need it.”

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 5:57 PM

The move from local to state to federal has been disconcerting and we’ve seen court rulings that required money be equitably allocated from one area of the state to poorer areas. That seems to be a different discussion though than whether parents should receive a voucher to send their children to a local public or private school at their choice rather than being forced to have to send their child to the local public school system or have to pay even more of their money to both support the public school system with their taxes and pay tuition for a private education.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:55 PM

My point was that vouchers are a later reactive product of that unappealing federal or nationalized model of (current) public education.

When parents lived and paid taxes in a town of 15,000 people, they were asked to provide input, provide some goods or services if they could, attend meetings about the quality and content and management of public education, etc., so problems with their locale’s education were available to be addressed and others listened when they were.

With the current, later developing insistence on impersonal, nebulous “government” control of public education, a parent’s expectations are often belittled, even harassed, penalized, etc., such that creating vouchers is a last-ditch method to enable parents to exercise some degree of control over the quality of their childrens’ educations.

Vouchers, the very concept, wasn’t needed when the parents attended quarterly meetings with teachers and their children, built and maintained the schools, could meet with administrators and teachers if not hire and fire them…

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 6:03 PM

I remember an excellent lunch-program at the public school I attended (eventually also then a “college prep” public high school — I had better and more aggressive academics there than I’d have had at a private school at that time, especially since we had several Ph.D.s teaching at that public highschool)…anyway, the otherwise tedium of cafeteria quality:

local growers provided the food and local mothers did all the cooking and prep. Excellent meals, excellent.

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 6:06 PM

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 5:55 PM

I’d prefer to see the return of small, privately controlled schools (thus, more vouchers as long as the current nationalized demands exist): individual parental involvement, respect for their contributions and requirements.

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Enough of these kinds of questions could lead to the private schools to receive lower test scores and not meet “state standards” unless those private schools also became indoctrination centers as well in order to meet those standards.

Certainly an important thing to think about…

Lourdes on March 23, 2013 at 6:14 PM

I was not happy with Walker’s comments on amnesty, but I still have a lot of respect for what he has done in Wisconsin.

Wigglesworth on March 23, 2013 at 6:20 PM

If the teachers unions were open to real reforms then we wouldn’t even be talking about this issue. Unfortunately unions are greedy and only care about their own power.

Wigglesworth on March 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

New Study Shows Homeschoolers Excel Academically

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2009/aug/09081008

davidk on March 23, 2013 at 6:38 PM

If the teachers unions were open to real reforms then we wouldn’t even be talking about this issue. Unfortunately unions are greedy and only care about their own power.

Wigglesworth on March 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

Exactly. Chicago is the prime example of that. Fireworks are starting.

davidk on March 23, 2013 at 6:39 PM

it is simple Jazz follow the money

JKotthoff on March 23, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Vouchers are fine as long as there is oversight and certain state-mandated standards are met. This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Who needs oversight?

The results were consistent with previous studies on homeschool academic achievement and showed that homeschoolers, on average, scored 37 percentile points above public school students on standardized achievement tests. [Emphasis added.]

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2009/aug/09081008

That is without government oversight. And we all know how well government oversight of public works projects is.

Get the government out of education.

davidk on March 23, 2013 at 6:44 PM

Jazz, you are so naive it’s almost cute.

The purpose of the American educational system is NOT to educate the next generation. It’s purpose is to enrich the Union lobbies that control the educational purse strings. Any “education” the kids get is purely coincidental.

NOMOBO on March 23, 2013 at 6:47 PM

it is simple Jazz follow the money

JKotthoff on March 23, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Yep.

The average public school spends nearly $10,000 per child per year whereas the Progress Report shows that the average homeschool parent spends about $500 per child per year.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2009/aug/09081008

$20.00 for inferior product. $1.00 for superior product.

davidk on March 23, 2013 at 6:48 PM

Union lobbies that control the educational purse strings. Any “education” the kids get is purely coincidental.

NOMOBO on March 23, 2013 at 6:47 PM

http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com/2012/04/24/education/will-the-real-school-bullies-please-stand-up/

davidk on March 23, 2013 at 7:00 PM

Not really sure what your point is? Most states using a bidding process to award contracts to private contractors to build highways and many other things. If you are suggesting the same for education then I could get behind that also.

Most states automatically award the lowest bid. All they need is to be bonded.

SuperBunny on March 23, 2013 at 7:17 PM

lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:43 PM

So, what you’re saying is, you’re in favor of just leaving children in a failing system to be indoctrinated as good little socialists rather than be educated to become productive adults.

Interesting.

Solaratov on March 23, 2013 at 5:55 PM

Sometimes you have to work within the system.

CW on March 23, 2013 at 7:24 PM

Remember that Obama is pushing his ‘core curriculum’ out to the States and doing the old ‘if you don’t do this you won’t get federal dollars’ deal with it. Getting your children out of the educational system is only part of the deal… the ‘standardized’ tests and even SAT will become focused on testing for the ‘core curriculum’ which dumbs down math, science and puts such hearty reading material as government regulations in place of studying classics of English literature.

Getting your children out of the public schools won’t matter since the SAT and ACT will focus on the ‘core curriculum’ then PRIVATE SCHOOLS will have to teach the stuff if you want kids to do well on the dumbed down ‘standardized’ tests. Even if you home school, what are the chances you will do it to the rote learning methods and dogma system that comes with the ‘core curriculum’?

I’m all for local redistribution of wealth so long as you can actually get some say on it. With the Dept. of Education at the FEDERAL LEVEL you have NO SAY AT ALL in the junk they push out. Local taxes? What about a communist ‘core curricula’ being pushed out on to ALL CHILDREN? That needs to be fought and hard not just at the local level, at the school board, at your State’s Dept. of Education… but with your reps in Congress getting this totalitarian push eviscerated from the Dept. of Education.

School Choice? How about the choice of NOT having the Federal government try to ‘standardize’ things to what a bunch of unaccountable bureaucrats think should be taught and tested for? That is a real fight that must happen. And that isn’t a partisan matter, but something that all sides should agree is anathema to them… save the power hungry, of course, they will defend it all day and all night long because they want to destroy this Nation and YOU and YOUR CHILDREN with it. Then freedom and liberty will be snuffed out and their Imperial dreams can move forward.

ajacksonian on March 23, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Has Boehner ever played golf with him? Has McCain or Lindsey Graham ever had dinner with him?

Considering Walker is now for amnesty after being against it during his campaign, I’d say probably so.

xblade on March 23, 2013 at 8:26 PM

Scott Walker, the people are with you!

ultracon on March 23, 2013 at 8:34 PM

School vouchers = income redistribution with a different name.
Discuss.
lorien1973 on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Watch now as “conservatives” around here suddenly discover the realities of nuance and engage in it to defend their good idea.

It IS wealth redistribution though. An above posting is right, actually. ANY and ALL government functions, expenditures, and actions are wealth redistribution.

But they will NOT allow nuance in any discussion of something that follows the line we all are supposed to walk to be good conservatives and therefor worthy of running the country, elected majority or not.

Read back over their answers to this question and watch how suddenly when it’s something that’s THEIR idea? Oh, no its not wealth redistribution, or at the very least not the “bad” kind of redistribution. It’s a type we like!

But if people had the resources themselves to send their kids further away to a better or private school system, they would. This is granting access to a communal money pool where those wealthier than themselves have paid in far more and have it handed off to those who can’t afford it on their own.

But it is a good idea. I’m just saying don’t be hypocrites. There is nuance all around and you deny the ability to have honest nuanced discussion about real policies constantly, every day, when the “line” says otherwise. But you love it and embrace it when it’s your turn.

Genuine on March 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Public schooling is wealth redistribution, in part from the wealthy to the poor, but also forcing a redistribution from adults to children. Vouchers don’t really change that, they just make it less totalitarian.

Count to 10 on March 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Public schooling is wealth redistribution, in part from the wealthy to the poor, but also forcing a redistribution from adults to children. Vouchers don’t really change that, they just make it less totalitarian.
Count to 10 on March 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Socialist!!! Look at you just wanting to spread the wealth around!! ;)

You’re right though, it’s ALL wealth redistribution. But you kinda ok with it now though, huh? Funny that, now that it’s someone you agree with.

Sarah gets that benefit of the doubt too for socialistically redistributing all those oil profits to the people of Alaska, just cause it’s her.

“It seems, my hypocrisy knows no bounds.” -Doc Holiday(Tombstone)

Genuine on March 23, 2013 at 10:47 PM

Watch now as “conservatives” around here suddenly discover the realities of nuance and engage in it to defend their good idea.

It IS wealth redistribution though. An above posting is right, actually. ANY and ALL government functions, expenditures, and actions are wealth redistribution.

But they will NOT allow nuance in any discussion of something that follows the line we all are supposed to walk to be good conservatives and therefor worthy of running the country, elected majority or not.

Read back over their answers to this question and watch how suddenly when it’s something that’s THEIR idea? Oh, no its not wealth redistribution, or at the very least not the “bad” kind of redistribution. It’s a type we like!

But if people had the resources themselves to send their kids further away to a better or private school system, they would. This is granting access to a communal money pool where those wealthier than themselves have paid in far more and have it handed off to those who can’t afford it on their own.

But it is a good idea. I’m just saying don’t be hypocrites. There is nuance all around and you deny the ability to have honest nuanced discussion about real policies constantly, every day, when the “line” says otherwise. But you love it and embrace it when it’s your turn.

Genuine on March 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Actually, more like disingenuous.

Public School is the definition of wealth redistribution. To the poorer students, whose parents cannot afford a top notch prep school. To the teachers at said schools. I won’t waste time going there.

What is conservative about school vouchers is DEMANDING results for our INVESTMENT. Something public schools don’t seem to be able to deliver. Something that increasing spending at twice to thrice the rate of inflation doesn’t seem to be able to buy.

And private schools can do it cheaper.

Granted there may be self selection bias in that last part, but with the public system utterly failing, it can’t hurt to try.

WryTrvllr on March 23, 2013 at 11:03 PM

Socialist!!! Look at you just wanting to spread the wealth around!! ;)

You’re right though, it’s ALL wealth redistribution. But you kinda ok with it now though, huh? Funny that, now that it’s someone you agree with.

Sarah gets that benefit of the doubt too for socialistically redistributing all those oil profits to the people of Alaska, just cause it’s her.

“It seems, my hypocrisy knows no bounds.” -Doc Holiday(Tombstone)

Genuine on March 23, 2013 at 10:47 PM

Whoa. Capitalists spend money too. They just want a decent chance at a return on investment. Good intentions aren’t enough.

we’ll leave that to the true socialists and the IMF.

WryTrvllr on March 23, 2013 at 11:09 PM

Has anyone ever considered the flipside of vouchers? Meaning white people can use them as well? Hipster paradise… Let me explain.

Gentrification usually is first done by single people or DINKs. They like the property values but dislike the local schools, because you know, the poor people. If there aren’t enough gentries to create a tipping point in which the schools get better then when it comes time to have a family they just rent out the house and move on. Well vouchers!! Now they can buy in poor neighborhoods open their coffee shops, and start their own schools or send to private. When your craft beer drinking, bohemian, Democrat voting hipsters figure out that they don’t have to move into an expensive neighborhood or the ‘burbs to get a good education for their children, all bets are off.

Theworldisnotenough on March 24, 2013 at 12:42 AM

Vouchers are fine as long as there is oversight and certain state-mandated standards are met. This is taxpayer’s money and shouldn’t easily be handed over to private concerns as this is a possible scam. No different than using taxpayer’s money to pay private contractors to build highways for instance.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Agreed. But we are already handing that money over to quasi-governmental entities (school districts and teachers unions) and the complaint from those quarters is exactly the “state-mandated standards”. When you hear “teaching to the test”, you are hearing whining about curriculum standards these people do not want to meet.

I’m fine with standards, but they must produce measurable results, and there must be rewards for people who meet those standards, and penalties for those who don’t.

unclesmrgol on March 24, 2013 at 1:07 AM

Well they are not perfect solutions, because of the frameworks set forth here;

http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/students-must-see-themselves-as-active-participants-in-social-change-and-designers-of-social-futures/

but they are certainly a first step.

narciso on March 24, 2013 at 1:09 AM

Public schooling is wealth redistribution, in part from the wealthy to the poor, but also forcing a redistribution from adults to children. Vouchers don’t really change that, they just make it less totalitarian.

Count to 10 on March 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM

We have wealth redistribution everywhere we have infrastructure centrally paid for by the Government. The postal system is redistributionist. Our highway system is redistributionist.

Even toll roads are partly redistributionist — you get to pay twice for their use — taxes to build them, and the toll every time you use them.

So, if we are going to redistribute wealth, why don’t we do so in a way which gets us the most bang for the buck? You will never ever get people to back off from funding public education — there’s too much evidence to show that a well educated country is a prosperous one — so the question is not so much whether we are going to do this, or whether we are going to do it in a manner which fulfils the mission — educate each person to the best of his or her ability/capability. I want the potential failure point to be the student themselves rather than the system they are subjected to.

unclesmrgol on March 24, 2013 at 1:21 AM

Isn’t there a state somewhere in the union conservative enough to just go ahead with vouchers?
Utah? Texas? I mean, come on, make it happen, people!

Count to 10 on March 23, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Oh sure, and then the army will be called out to stop the atrocity. Or even worse, the brownshirt army that is being secretly established for the takeover of the country. Why else all the ammo, weapons and tactical vehicles being bought left and right by the government? Just dare one state to step out of line and see what happens.

HiJack on March 24, 2013 at 1:37 AM

Something’s definitely happened to the TEA Party movement. Came roaring in like lions, now it seems they are largely asking for money…where are the rallies? I haven’t given up on the TEA Party yet, but I suspected from the beginning that they would be co-opted by others and that individuals from within might be tainted by the sudden rise to political power.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Well, here in MI, the various tea parties went to work. Rather than stand outside and hold rallies, they formed local groups, have meetings with local officials to vette them and their policies, lobby the state to keep them on course with spending, etc. They are working hard on campaigns, even running for various lower ballot offices.

Most recently, the tea parties were very important to beating back a MI health insurance exchange of any kind with MI participation. The guv was going to accept the higher fed bribe money to go ahead and partner with a state/fed exchange, but he could not get the bill out of the Legislature. The tea parties from throughout the state headed the opposition to the bills, several times, and finally the last attempt died on Thursday, when the legislature adjourned until later in April, after the 4/1 deadline to fund the exchange.

So while the whiney unions were outside the capitol building in Lansing last week whining about the right to work law that goes into affect tomorrow (Monday), the tea partiers were INSIDE the building meeting with the various lawmakers to ensure they voted down the obamacare exchange funding.

So at least in MI, the tea parties have graduated from a protest movement to an action movement. They are VERY BUSY behind the scenes working to keep MI red at least at a state and local level. As a result, the Dems have a very weak bench for any statewide offices next year AND they might even have a hard time finding a candidate to run for the open Senate seat that has an edge over the GOP candidate. That seat is not a sure blue seat in 2014.

I am a strong advocate for vouchers for all kids. If they have special needs, they get extra voucher money. But make ALL schools compete for customers, and we will find the cost per student goes way down over a poorly run government monopoly. The upside of this is that the entrenched high overhead costs built into the union power grab is completely scuttled. The schools that will be most effective in enticing students will most likely be non union and they will start with a clean slate for benefits, no high legacy costs of huge retirement benefits.

And moving forward, these new schools can do matching 401K plans, and not the budget busting defined benefit plans with early retirement built in, thus holding taxpayers hostage for decades and decades.

Scott Walker understands all of this. He also understands that the kids being held hostage in the failing schools can’t wait for reform, they need to be rescued now.

And to avoid the “wealth redistribution” claims, declare all school students in the state eligible for vouchers. The lazy, indifferent parents can keep their kids in the public schools by default. The parents who give a damn will be able to rescue their kids from these cesspools.

karenhasfreedom on March 24, 2013 at 4:08 AM

We have wealth redistribution everywhere we have infrastructure centrally paid for by the Government. The postal system is redistributionist. Our highway system is redistributionist.

Even toll roads are partly redistributionist — you get to pay twice for their use — taxes to build them, and the toll every time you use them.

So, if we are going to redistribute wealth, why don’t we do so in a way which gets us the most bang for the buck? You will never ever get people to back off from funding public education — there’s too much evidence to show that a well educated country is a prosperous one — so the question is not so much whether we are going to do this, or whether we are going to do it in a manner which fulfils the mission — educate each person to the best of his or her ability/capability. I want the potential failure point to be the student themselves rather than the system they are subjected to.

unclesmrgol on March 24, 2013 at 1:21 AM

That’s actually what I was trying to get at — I was responding to a comment that vouchers were redistributionist.

Count to 10 on March 24, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Good for him.

Even if those schools aren’t failing, the need to actually compete for education money will be a good thing. The government education near-monopoly has allowed the unfettered growth of a bureaucratic, unresponsive, and indoctrination rather than education oriented system.

AZfederalist on March 23, 2013 at 4:23 PM

This is a great idea, and it should be proposed on a national level.

The truth is, not all public schools are failing, and those in rural areas or middle-class suburbs often turn out well-educated high school graduates. Parents in such areas are often reluctant to pay private school tuition, since they are already supporting the public schools with high property taxes.

Most of the failing public schools are in poor neighborhoods in urban areas, who have trouble recruiting good teachers (many of whom fear for their lives, since they also fear lawsuits from disciplining misbehaving children at a young age), and these schools turn out low-information voters who vote overwhelmingly Democrat to get their food stamps, Obamaphones, and other government gimmes.

A small minority of inner-city residents, including some Hispanic and African Americans, have recognized the problem, and sent their children to private schools, who then join the middle class and become better-informed, and more conservative voters.

A school voucher program could work wonders in such areas, by giving poor families the possibility of sending their children to private schools, which would still have the option of rejecting failing students. It might take 10 or 15 years, but a school-voucher program could produce a new generation of well-educated and well-informed young people from the inner cities, whose parents would tell them to thank the Republicans for their escape from unemployment and poverty.

Steve Z on March 25, 2013 at 10:41 AM

I’ll bet you a dollar to a donut that most of the anti-voucher people are PRO high-speed rail. And I’ll bet you two dollars to a donut that ALL people serving on the board of a condo association are pro high-speed rail AND anti-voucher. It’s control, plain and simple. People just don’t know what’s good for them, you see….

Owen Glendower on March 23, 2013 at 5:53 PM

You make some good points, but that expression about betting dollars to donuts has outlived its usefulness. With the price of donuts these days, betting dollars to donuts is about an even bet.

Steve Z on March 25, 2013 at 10:51 AM