Magpul: If Hickenlooper signs gun-control bill, we’re outta here

posted at 11:21 am on March 19, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

Two weeks ago, they were merely considering their options.  Late last night, though, the executives at Colorado-based Magpul made it official on their Facebook page.  If Governor John Hickenlooper signs the gun-control bill that limits magazine capacities — their core business — they will leave Colorado for friendlier venues and take hundreds of jobs with them (via Instapundit):

Apparently Gov Hickenlooper has announced that he will sign HB 1224 on Wednesday. We were asked for our reaction, and here is what we said:

We have said all along that based on the legal problems and uncertainties in the bill, as well as general principle, we will have no choice but to leave if the Governor signs this into law. We will start our transition out of the state almost immediately, and we will prioritize moving magazine manufacturing operations first. We expect the first PMAGs to be made outside CO within 30 days of the signing, with the rest to follow in phases. We will likely become a multi-state operation as a result of this move, and not all locations have been selected. We have made some initial contacts and evaluated a list of new potential locations for additional manufacturing and the new company headquarters, and we will begin talks with various state representatives in earnest if the Governor indeed signs this legislation. Although we are agile for a company of our size, it is still a significant footprint, and we will perform this move in a manner that is best for the company and our employees.

It is disappointing to us that money and a social agenda from outside the state have apparently penetrated the American West to control our legislature and Governor, but we feel confident that Colorado residents can still take the state back through recalls, ballot initiatives, and the 2014 election to undo these wrongs against responsible Citizens.

Indeed, Hickenlooper has already indicated he would sign the bill:

Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper will sign legislation Wednesday that sets limits on ammunition magazines and expands background checks for firearms, marking a Democratic victory in a state where gun ownership is a treasured right and Second Amendment debate has played out in the wake of two mass shootings.

The measures proposed are some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, and their passage comes after weeks of tense legislative battles. Republicans and gun rights supporters put up a major fight against the measures in this politically moderate state, while Democrats made them the centerpieces of a package of legislative proposals drafted in reaction to shooting rampages at a suburban Denver movie theater and a Connecticut elementary school last year.

It’s not that Democrats didn’t try to woo Magpul into staying.  They added an amendment that made it legal to manufacture and transport high-capacity magazines … as long as Magpul sold them anywhere but in Colorado.  Republicans blasted Democrats for their hypocrisy:

A Colorado-based magazine manufacturer said it would leave the state if the new restrictions were passed, taking hundreds of jobs with it. Democrats tried to ease the concerns from Magpul Industries, saying the company can still manufacture higher-capacity magazines if they were sold out of state.

Waller blasted Democrats on that amendment, saying it was hypocritical because they are telling the company “you can sell (magazines) at any other place where any of these tragic shootings have happened.”

Waller called the exemption “a monumental inconsistency in their thought process.”

What was the message here? Colorado won’t allow people to purchase high-capacity magazines because that will supposedly decrease violence, but they’re happy to export them to other states? One can’t blame Magpul for failing to trust Democrats to leave that loophole open for very long, not after their demonstration of hostility to Magpul’s industry.

Meanwhile, two Pennsylvania legislators want to roll out the red carpet for Magpul, using a reference to Barack Obama in its pitch:

As some states that are home to manufactures of guns and gun components move to pass stricter gun regulations, two Pennsylvania state representatives have laid out a welcome mat in hopes of drawing the companies to the state.

Representatives Seth Grove, R-Dover Township, and Daryl Metcalfe, R-Butler County, issued a joint news release Monday that announces they are reaching out to several out-of-state gun and gun component makers, including Beretta, Magpul and Remington, and encouraging them to move to the Keystone State.

“We’ll be more than happy to have additional manufacturing,” Grove said. “Pennsylvania is known all over the country for clinging to its guns, and it’s time that we use this reputation to our advantage.”

In reaching out to the companies, Pennsylvania has joined a long list of states that have already done so.

Clearly, Colorado isn’t welcoming manufacturing jobs.  Pennsylvania may be a good option for Magpul, one no doubt they will consider as they start moving jobs out of Colorado.


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annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 11:28 AM

Lubbock is a fine place. I lived there several years and my wife is from an itty-bitty town named Post.

belad on March 19, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Fully expecting ballot initiatives in 2014 to repeal these progressive crap laws drawn up by Bloomberg and funded by out of state interests. All led by the carpet bagging president of the senate (comes from new york, what a suprise he is a Bloomberg puppet).
Voter fraud is a large part of why the state has gotten the blue flu, as well as the influx of progressives fleeing their failing utopia states and bring their collectivist voting habits with them.

djtnt on March 19, 2013 at 12:59 PM

I really love that this is happening to the citizens of Colorado. There should be consequences for monumental group stupidity as it relates to the voting process.

I hope the next bill is a 200% raise in Colarado’s income tax.

Viva la Revolution, right comrades?

Hannibal on March 19, 2013 at 12:59 PM

This governor is beyond stupid. The bill is poorly written, sheriffs have said they will not be able to enforce it, and it has more holes lawsuit ready than a shootout at the OK corral. Hick should have sent it back to the legislature to be written properly and if the dunces in the capital don’t know how to write a proper piece of legislation, then they need to find another line of work. Magpul can come to Montana. We love guns and hi cap mags of all kinds and don’t find any of them scary.

Kissmygrits on March 19, 2013 at 1:02 PM

On the issue of guns. This is an interesting and chilling story coming from NJ? Thank goodness the dad had the mindset to get his lawyer on the phone during this whole thing! I hope this comes out well for the family?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/19/dad-this-picture-of-my-son-holding-a-gun-triggered-a-visit-from-nj-police-family-services/
L

letget on March 19, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Well, stay the hell away from Florida. After the last election cycle coupled with Charlie Crisp running again, we’re officially too stupid to stay conservative for much longer.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 12:32 PM

.
While secession always brings out a bit too radical emotion, from all corners…. I say its time to go to for the 57 states like the commie in the WH was talking about. Split these larger population states up, and allow WE THE PEOPLE to have a choice on where to live – and not dictated by the perversion of a large metro sewer rat populaion.

North Florida
South Florida
North California
South California
East New York
West New York
East Pennsylvania
West Pennsylavania
North Illinois
South Illinois
North Ohio
South Ohio
North Virginia
South Virginia

Colorado, you’re just plain screwed.

FlaMurph on March 19, 2013 at 1:08 PM

Pennsylvania? Are they nuts? When was the last time Pennsylvania voted red? It’s another libtard stronghold in the making, and they’ll wind up voting Magpul out in another decade or two themselves. Sure, the western part of the state is conservative, but the urban east is full of New York sheeple.

quikstrike98 on March 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM

Since last election, I’ve been hoping for a peaceful divorce from the blue states. These kinds of moves are a step in the right direction. When we have reached a point that those with an interest in liberty have settled in red states and the collectivists have settled in the blue states, a formal separation will almost become a formality.

crrr6 on March 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM

What the hell has happened to Colorado? This was once a reliable red state and is now bordering on California-level insanity. And don’t tell me it’s all due to people migrating from blue states. There’s no way they could’ve gone this far off the deep end so quickly. Even the aforementioned California took decades to become the cesspool it’s devolved into.

Doughboy on March 19, 2013 at 11:28 AM

.
Twenty some odd years ago, Colorado began to become the American center of “New Age” religion. Add the influx of “illegals”, and the “entertainment industry” types who like to vacation there, then you eventually have a change in political orientation.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:15 PM

letget on March 19, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Heh. An excerpt:

The young man in the photo is the 11-yr-old son of Shawn Moore. The gun is a .22 rifle, a copy of the AR-15, but a 22 caliber.

Uh, the standard AR IS .22 caliber. .224, to be exact.

I think you mean .22 Long Rifle rimfire, Blaze

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Virginia would also be a great place for Magpul to relocate to.

olesparkie on March 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM

I sure as hell wouldn’t trust Pennsylvania. It is controlled by two far left American hating cities.

pat on March 19, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Pennsylvania? Are they nuts? When was the last time Pennsylvania voted red? It’s another libtard stronghold in the making, and they’ll wind up voting Magpul out in another decade or two themselves. Sure, the western part of the state is conservative, but the urban east is full of New York sheeple.

quikstrike98 on March 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM

.
Outside the cities and large towns, it’s “easy red”.

Inside the cities and large towns, “it’s easy blue”, PLUS there are “voting irregularities”.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:21 PM

Pennsylvania? Are they nuts? When was the last time Pennsylvania voted red? It’s another libtard stronghold in the making

quikstrike98 on March 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM

I was thinking the same myself. A company must think long term, hence my stay out of Florida remark.

Idaho, Wyoming, Utah and Texas are all safe. I still would not trust Tennessee or Kentucky because of the simple fact that ‘rat celebs like Judd and McGraw think they have a chance.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:22 PM

Colorado, you’re just plain screwed.

FlaMurph on March 19, 2013 at 1:08 PM

Maryland too. No way to divide the collective so that some part of it isn’t infested with filthy Democrat radicals. Will the last conservative out please remember to lower the flag and turn out the lights?

Happy Nomad on March 19, 2013 at 1:23 PM

Democrats voters are killing America.

karlinsync on March 19, 2013 at 11:27 AM

FIFY

Duuuuuude, that’s okay, the pot industry will take up the slack. Like, totally.

Ward Cleaver on March 19, 2013 at 11:25 AM

ISWYDT ;)

GWB on March 19, 2013 at 1:27 PM

I sure as hell wouldn’t trust Pennsylvania. It is controlled by two far left American hating cities.

pat on March 19, 2013 at 1:19 PM

.
Those “two far left, American hating cities” do have certain limitations to their influence.

If any firearms manufacturer located here, were to experience what the same manufacturers are experiencing in Colorado and Maryland, there would be a MAJOR uprising among the gun-owning population that would make Harrisburg think twice.

That’s one “vote” which those “two far left, American hating cities” can’t influence, or otherwise cause “disenfranchisement”.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:34 PM

El Paso county is on my list but it’s only as red as its sheriff…

katy on March 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM

I see it the other way around. We have a good sheriff because the county is overall very conservative. Lots of military – USAF Academy, Peterson AFB, Schriever AFB, Fort Carson, Cheyenne Mountain AFS; and lots of conservative/religious organizations – Focus on the Family, The Navigators, Compassion International.

The county, along with the sheriff, and Fort Carson just collaborated on building a huge new public shooting range – and the sheriif and county commissioners SHOT the ribbon for the grand opening. What does that say about El Paso County?

Now we just need to recall that Demtard State Senator Morse to do our part for the state and we’ll be good to go.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Uh, the standard AR IS .22 caliber. .224, to be exact.
I think you mean .22 Long Rifle rimfire, Blaze

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Uh – no. To be exact, and correct, the standard AR-15 is .223 caliber or 5.56 x 45 mm.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Europe right after Germany took the Sudetenland, and Austria:

“Don’t worry about what’s happening with Austria and the Sudetenland.”

MoreLiberty on March 19, 2013 at 1:41 PM

The young man in the photo is the 11-yr-old son of Shawn Moore. The gun is a .22 rifle, a copy of the AR-15, but a 22 caliber.

letget on March 19, 2013 at 1:03 PM
.

Uh, the standard AR IS .22 caliber. .224, to be exact.

I think you mean .22 Long Rifle rimfire, Blaze

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:17 PM

.
Uh – no. To be exact, and correct, the standard AR-15 is .223 caliber or 5.56 x 45 mm.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:41 PM

.
Is there a .22LR “copy-cat” of the AR-15?

Even if there is, that rifle in the young man’s hand’s has an awfully large-width magazine for .22LR.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Uh – no. To be exact, and correct, the standard AR-15 is .223 caliber or 5.56 x 45 mm.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Uh, no, the groove diameter of all high-power .22s are all .224.

.222 Rem Mag? = .224
.223 Remington (5.56mm NATO)? = .224
.220 Swift? = .224
.225 Winchester? = .224
.221 Rem Fireball? = .224
The only ‘twenty two’ I can recall that was not was the .22 Savage Hi-Power. It was .228

Pick up a reloading manual.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Say, for any of these gun manufacturing companies that may be relocating, would it make sense to relocate along the southern border?

Maybe they could help beef up border security somehow.

BuckeyeSam on March 19, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Lower shipping costs for Eric Holder & Co.?

slickwillie2001 on March 19, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Is there a .22LR “copy-cat” of the AR-15?

Even if there is, that rifle in the young man’s hand’s has an awfully large-width magazine for .22LR.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Sure. There are several. Much like the Service Model ACE (a .22 LR copy of the 1911), they are full size. They have to be otherwise they are not copies. The magazines have fillers in them to compensate for the difference in cartridge size.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Even if there is, that rifle in the young man’s hand’s has an awfully large-width magazine for .22LR.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Looks like a S&W M&P15-22

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 1:55 PM

“If they want a manufacturing-friendly place with low radiation, I recommend they move to the NOW available Nuka-Cola Plant near D.C….now that I’ve …..pacified it of Raiders, Slavers, and Super-Mutants. Bring your business here.”

– Jimmy Doolittle
D.C Wasteland Crusader
Fallout 3

KirknBurker on March 19, 2013 at 1:55 PM

Pick up a reloading manual.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Go try and buy some .224 ammo.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:58 PM

Is there a .22LR “copy-cat” of the AR-15?
Even if there is, that rifle in the young man’s hand’s has an awfully large-width magazine for .22LR.

listens2glenn on March 19, 2013 at 1:49 PM

Yes – there are lots of AR-15 type rifles that are chambered for .22 LR. And you can get a conversion kit for a regualr .223 AR-15 that will allow you to shoot .22 LR.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:00 PM

For making your own M193.

H2267B BULK (.224) 22 CAL 55 GR Full Metal Jacket Boat Tai

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Go try and buy some .224 ammo.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:58 PM

That’s your argument?

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:02 PM

FlaMurph on March 19, 2013 at 1:08 PM

How does splitting GULAG into North and South make things any different? A split along the West and East axis will do the right thing, though.

riddick on March 19, 2013 at 2:03 PM

That’s your argument?

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:02 PM

That’s all that’s needed. What do you think the answer would be if you went to a gun shop and asked for a box of .224 cartidges for your AR-15?
There is no such thing as a .224 rifle or cartridge. No rifle spec uses the measurement you’re talking about in defining the rifle.
AR-15s are .223 caliber – show me ANY spec sheet on any standard AR-15 out there that says the rifle is .224 caliber and not .223 caliber.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Lubbock is a fine place. I lived there several years and my wife is from an itty-bitty town named Post.

belad on March 19, 2013 at 12:58 PM

Post was one of our landmarks flying out of Reese AFB. I loved living in Lubbock. :)

Kissmygrits on March 19, 2013 at 1:02 PM

I’ve seen folks quote the CO constitution as it refers to the right to bear arms. What are the odds a CO court throws this law out as in violation of that?

FlaMurph on March 19, 2013 at 1:08 PM

I suggested on another thread that we cut out the major cities – turn them into city-states.

GWB on March 19, 2013 at 2:14 PM

AR-15s are .223 caliber – show me ANY spec sheet on any standard AR-15 out there that says the rifle is .224 caliber and not .223 caliber.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:09 PM

I’m not about to sit here and argue with someone who doesn’t have the first clue.

The industry standard is .224″ regardless what you may read on the internet. That thousandth of an inch in a jacketed bullet can

A, either increase pressure in an already hot round or
B, cause accuracy to suffer.

That’s why we have industry standards.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM

This governor is beyond stupid. The bill is poorly written, sheriffs have said they will not be able to enforce it, and it has more holes lawsuit ready than a shootout at the OK corral.

Hmmmmm … shades of Bloomers bill against sugary drinks? We’ll call them … HickenBloomer. Kind of like Brangelina but without her legs.

LetsBfrank on March 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM

You’re an idiot trying to sound like you know it all.
Again – show me one single AR-15 spec sheet or box of ammo that says it is .224 caliber. Just one.
You’re using an internal measurement for discussion of the standard caliber of weapon – where that measurement is NOT what anyone else uses in defining the weapon. That’s idiotic.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:20 PM

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:20 PM

So lemme get this straight, clown:

If I go buy box of Swifts for my varmint rifle, pull the bullets, somehow they will magically mike out to .220″?

Get lost. Or rather, get bentarthurdent.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:24 PM

quikstrike98 on March 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM

With the exception of 13 counties, Pennsylvania went red in the 2012 election.

I would bet Magpul would locate somewhere outside of Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) or Philadelphia County (Philadelphia) where the citizens in the surrounding counties would welcome them with open arms. There is as much distrust of both of those counties to those who live in the counties bordering them as there is in other states.

And remember, being a “liberal” in western Pennsylvania, where I live, is not the same as being a liberal in Manhattan. The liberals here, particularly the ones over 40, are in general more conservative than not. Clueless, maybe, as to the thrust of the current incarnation of the Democrat party, but surprisingly conservative. And of course, there’s the heavy union influence to consider, but even though they are one-track-minders on that issue, I’m sure they want to be able to carry guns.

Magpul could join Zippo and Case Knives in Bradford, Pa. Incidentially, Zippo wooed Case away from western New York.

PatriotGal2257 on March 19, 2013 at 2:26 PM

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Here’s the spec sheet on my AR. Funny – it says .223 caliber. I don’t see .224 anywhere on that sheet.
http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf

I also have about 1000 rounds of .223 ammo, and every single round and every box is marked .223 caliber. Not a single one says .224.
Get clue dumass.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM

So lemme get this straight, clown:

If I go buy box of Swifts for my varmint rifle, pull the bullets, somehow they will magically mike out to .220″?

Get lost. Or rather, get bentarthurdent.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:24 PM

No a$$hole – go try to buy a box of .224 caliber ammo.
Pull your head out of your @ss.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Not a single one says .224.
Get clue dumass.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Are you just trolling?

Find bullets in .223

Find bullets in .224

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Get clue dumass.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Go buy a micrometer, genius.

And not one of those Chinese micrometers either.

That ‘spec’ sheet is for novices like yourself because it’s easier to understand ‘two twenty three’.

Had Remington decided to name their round ‘The Two Twenty Four Remington’, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

SAAMI

SAAMI is an abbreviation used for Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute. SAAMI sets many of the standards for firearm chambers, bore diameters, safe pressures and cartridge designs. Most manufactures in the firearm industry belong to SAAMI.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Both civilian (SAAMI) specification .223 Remington and 5.56 mm NATO are available. Though the external dimensions of the two cases are the same and both chambers typically accept both types of ammunition, the firing of military specification ammunition in civilian specification chambers can produce chamber pressures greater than the barrel is designed to handle. Internally the 5.56x45mm case wall is thicker, and the round itself is typically loaded to produce higher pressure than the .223.

Not sure where the .224 part came about. Military M-16 uses the 5.45 mm round, and the civilian uses .223.

Hannibal on March 19, 2013 at 2:33 PM

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:32 PM

What does the box say when you buy ammo cartidges for an AR-15?
What does the spec sheet on an AR-15 say the caliber of the weapon is?

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:35 PM

A split along the West and East axis will do the right thing, though.

riddick on March 19, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Maybe right along that natural divider in the state…….

GWB on March 19, 2013 at 2:37 PM

I give up Lanceman, too good a mood.

Have nice day.

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM

What does the box say when you buy ammo cartidges for an AR-15?
What does the spec sheet on an AR-15 say the caliber of the weapon is?

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:35 PM

So, if I load the same 55 grain bullets in my Swift that I load in my Mini 14, the bullets should just fall out of the barrel. Good to know.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM

With the exception of 13 counties, Pennsylvania went red in the 2012 election.

And which Presidential candidate got Pennsylvania’s electoral votes? I’m pretty sure most of Colorado’s counties went red too. Ogabe got the state’s electoral votes, and now they’re grabbing guns.

quikstrike98 on March 19, 2013 at 2:40 PM

The Governor of my state has proposed eliminating the State Income Tax to compete with adjacent states. It would be easy for this company to move across the state line and set up shop. However, the hue and cry and gnashing of liberal teeth in the populace and legislature in this supposedly “solid Red State” will make it impossible to get it passed. Another opportunity, among many, missed!!

RADIOONE on March 19, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Ok, one more link. Just providing data.

Lanceman’s original assertion was that most (if not all) .22 caliber CARTIDGES use a .224″ bullet. Reloading .223, 5.56, and even .22LR use a .224″ diameter bullet. Everything else has been a clusterstook. Like I said, go to your reloading store and demand .223 bullets and insist on .223″.

Should be good fun for all.

Toodles.

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:43 PM

I give up Lanceman, too good a mood.

Have nice day.

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Yeah. I can’t believe it has gotten to this point when the original premise of my statement was that the original article was that somehow, a .22LR wasn’t really basically the same caliber as the normal AR cartridge.

(the .22LR uses a heel loaded bullet, arthur, and since it’s not available to reload, AND since I’ve never wasted time trying to mike a .22LR, I just assume the rimfire .22 is actually .224. If I had some bizmuth, I could slug the barrel and find out groove diameter.)

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM

*bismuth

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:46 PM

So, if I load the same 55 grain bullets in my Swift that I load in my Mini 14, the bullets should just fall out of the barrel. Good to know.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:39 PM

http://www.ruger.com/products/mini14RanchRifle/models.html
What caliber does Ruger say it’s Mini 14 is?

Again, you’re trying to use measurements to define the caliber of a rifle that nobody else uses to define that rifle. You talk all you want about all the various measurements of the bullet, powder load, and such as they relate to reloading, and various parts of the rifle itself, but when it comes down to it, none of those details are what anyone else uses to define the caliber of the rifle or the caliber of the cartidges you buy to put in it.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:48 PM

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:48 PM

The industry standard, as defined by SAAMI is .224″

I think your argument would be better directed at those clowns over at Remington.

I mean these blowmonkeys had the gall to invent the .44 Remington Magnum and then put .429″ bullets in them!

Lousy cheaters!

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:54 PM

Yeah. I can’t believe it has gotten to this point when the original premise of my statement was that the original article was that somehow, a .22LR wasn’t really basically the same caliber as the normal AR cartridge.
Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:44 PM

Actually no – the original comment you responded to was simply about whether the rifle in the picture was a real .223 caliber AR-15 or a .22 caliber version of it.
You’re the one who took it off into mic size of bullets for reloads lalaland.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:55 PM

I mean, at least Winchester cares enough about the customer to give them more.

When they invented the .45 Winchester Magnum they had the good sense to put .451″ bullets in them.

Now that’s what I call a customer friendly business.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:58 PM

And don’t get me goin’ on Smith & Wesson, what with their .38 S&W Special. How I can fire those in my .357 magnum revolver is beyond me.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM

The FINE state of Michigan would welcome Magpul with open arms.

Americans ALWAYS get the government they deserve.

DannoJyd on March 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM

The FINE state of Michigan would welcome Magpul with open arms.

Americans ALWAYS get the government they deserve.

DannoJyd on March 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Hold it. Seems like it was just 20 years ago or so that you had to get a permit to buy a handgun in Michigan.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:14 PM

And don’t get me goin’ on Smith & Wesson, what with their .38 S&W Special. How I can fire those in my .357 magnum revolver is beyond me.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM

You have to admit the naming conventions for ammo are pretty messed up. I was at Cabelas the other day and, surprise surprise, they had some overpriced 45auto in stock (didn’t say acp, said auto). The cashier had to ask whether it was for long gun or hand gun, because they just don’t know.

Fenris on March 19, 2013 at 3:20 PM

Pennsylvania is not a safe destination, neither is Virginia because of the urban sprawl. Both states have a rich gun culture, but so did Colorado. Even Vermont hasn’t tried anything like this and they have the most lax gun laws in the country. I’m even not even sure if Arizona is a safe bet because of Rubio and company pushing amnesty, so if they go anywhere it would have to be an expressly conservative state (one that prides itself for its conservative politics) like Texas or South Carolina.

We also need serious electoral reform to stop the cities from drowning out the rest of the states. On the presidential level, electoral votes should be proportional, by district and I would support the same for Gubernatorial elections. As America becomes increasingly urbanized, the rural areas need to be over represented to compensate, this is exactly what our founders did. We also need to repeal the 17th amendment which allowed Senators to be directly elected through popular vote.

Daemonocracy on March 19, 2013 at 3:22 PM

The only ‘twenty two’ I can recall that was not was the .22 Savage Hi-Power. It was .228

Pick up a reloading manual.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Also the .228 Weatherby and a few others. The .228 was pretty popular for a while a long time back.

btw; ,22LongRifle = .222″ dia.

.22WMR (Magnum) = .223″ dia.

The official designation/name of the cartridge doesn’t seem to mean a lot as far as actual bullet size goes. (.38Special = .357″ dia.)

Solaratov on March 19, 2013 at 3:34 PM

I would love it if this fine company would come to Texas. After all, we have so many industries here that have been abused by liberals. We are where companies come to really do business in a friendly climate. (And the weather ain’t bad either)

Freed0m28 on March 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM

pilamaye on March 19, 2013 at 12:54 PM

Heck with Coors! We have Shiner Bock!!

pilamaye on March 19, 2013 at 12:56 PM

……….the smarter ones that care about survival yubetcha

Katfish on March 19, 2013 at 3:38 PM

btw; ,22LongRifle = .222″ dia.

.22WMR (Magnum) = .223″ dia.

Solaratov on March 19, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Yeah, I knew it was different. And the WMR uses a standard type of bullet rather than a heel loaded one.

Now. On to this Hickenpooper crap…

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Wake up, Americans. This gun grab is a major step in ultimate, central government control. They break the 2nd Amendment, the rest can be broken, too. “Rights” for anything will become a dream from the past.

MN J on March 19, 2013 at 11:29 AM

..they have waked up. Forget guns and ammunition. Have you tried ordering peripheral firearms and shooting equipment? Go to any sporting goods site and look at how much of their stuff is on backorder.

I ordered a turret press on 26 FEB and will hopefully get it when Midway’s gets it – in mid-June.

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 3:42 PM

That’s all that’s needed. What do you think the answer would be if you went to a gun shop and asked for a box of .224 cartidges for your AR-15?
There is no such thing as a .224 rifle or cartridge. No rifle spec uses the measurement you’re talking about in defining the rifle.
AR-15s are .223 caliber – show me ANY spec sheet on any standard AR-15 out there that says the rifle is .224 caliber and not .223 caliber.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:09 PM

A)”There is no such thing as a .224 rifle or cartridge”

You mean the .224 Weatherby and the rifles chambered for it were just a figment of Roy Weatherby’s mind? I guess the Remington rifle I had converted for it was just a mad dream, too.

B)He didn’t say the caliber designation was .224 – but that the bullet is .224″ diameter. And a spec sheet showing the measurement of the barrel diameter (inside) will so specify.

Solaratov on March 19, 2013 at 3:43 PM

Not a single one says .224.
Get clue dumass.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Are you just trolling?

Find bullets in .223

Find bullets in .224

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 2:31 PM

..hey, if anyone’s interested, I have set of BRAND NEW Lee .222 dies I’ll sell.

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM

Pennsylvania is not a safe destination, neither is Virginia because of the urban sprawl.

Daemonocracy on March 19, 2013 at 3:22 PM

It’s not really the urban sprawl that’s the problem here, so much as it is all the dang DC folks who live in NoVA. We have the other standard problems of a southern state, but that bunch of looters in NoVA push us over the edge.

GWB on March 19, 2013 at 3:50 PM

..hey, if anyone’s interested, I have set of BRAND NEW Lee .222 dies I’ll sell.

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 3:47 PM

.222 Rem or .222 Rem Mag?

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:52 PM

The Halli Casser-Jayne Show, Talk Radio for Fine Minds is talking gun control, Wednesday, March 20, 3 pm ET. You might not like what our guests have to say, but we hope you’ll listen anyway. We all have to learn to listen to each other. None of us is beyond learning. http://bit.ly/U4EEMd

The CJ Political Report on March 19, 2013 at 4:01 PM

222 Rem or .222 Rem Mag?

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:52 PM

..the .222 Remington. I wanted .223 and the clown at soem store shipped me .222 and wanted to charge me 20% restocking charge so I kept them in case i ever wanted to go boar hunting in some Euro-Commie Socialist paradise.

You interested?

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 4:12 PM

..in the dies..not shooting wild boar in in some Euro-Commie Socialist paradise.

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Damn, I was looking forward to that “safari!”

tom daschle concerned on March 19, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Are you referring to that State that is above you?

OhEssYouCowboys on March 19, 2013 at 11:54 AM

SiLENCE!

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Don’t you DARE speak ill of S&W .38 Specials.
Commie!

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:17 PM

..in the dies..not shooting wild boar in in some Euro-Commie Socialist paradise.

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 4:12 PM

No, and I can’t imagine I’d ever need them.

You can neck size and seat bullets in .223s or any other shorter cartridge with them. So they would do very nicely in a pinch, but no guarantee they’d chamber in any other rifle than the one it was fired in.

So don’t throw them out.

Or better yet, try selling them here.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 2:54 PM

You ever go to Home Depot and ask for a 1 1/2 X 3 1/2 board?
Or do you go to the rack labeled 2 X 4?

Ruger says your Mini 14 is .223 caliber.
GFY.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Don’t you DARE speak ill of S&W .38 Specials.
Commie!

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:17 PM

Never have been overly fond of anything that says Smith & Wesson on them. They’ve been sold to more than one anti-civillian-gun company.

Bangor Punta comes to mind.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:20 PM

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 1:37 PM

We’re headed to Colorado Springs in June. Can’t say that I’m thrilled about going.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:20 PM

I LIKE my little S&W.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:21 PM

..the .222 Remington. I wanted .223 and the clown at soem store shipped me .222 and wanted to charge me 20% restocking charge so I kept them in case i ever wanted to go boar hunting in some Euro-Commie Socialist paradise.

You interested?

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Are you sure you wanted .223?
According to lancyboy you should have ordered .224.
I have however seen .222 cartidges on the shelf – and the guy who bought them has an oddball European rifle of some sort – can’t remember.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:22 PM

I LIKE my little S&W.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:21 PM

And I have OWNED them before. Still not my favorite gun company.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:23 PM

dentarthurdent
Lanceman

I am not knowledgeable about guns, but aren’t you guys basically in agreement?

You both acknowledge a discrepancy between:

the precise measurement of X

and

the name by which X or the weapon which uses X is generally known, which is not the same as the precise measurement of X

Well, anyway, that’s how it reads to this layperson.

Missy on March 19, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Guys, you are talking past each other. That’s no reason for incivility.

SPQR on March 19, 2013 at 4:24 PM

*Facepalm.*

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:24 PM

We’re headed to Colorado Springs in June. Can’t say that I’m thrilled about going.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 19, 2013 at 4:20 PM

You shouldn’t have any trouble here. But if you’re concerned about the gun control issues, don’t stop in Pueblo on your way up and you might want to avoid Denver and Boulder. However, even if Hickypooper signs the bills, the effective date is 1 July, so no matter what, you’re safe until then.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:25 PM

None of us is beyond learning.

The CJ Political Report on March 19, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Oh, I think that’s wishful thinking where many low-information voters are concerned. (And liberal trolls on HotAir.)

GWB on March 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Well, anyway, that’s how it reads to this layperson.

Missy on March 19, 2013 at 4:24 PM

No. Because I originally stated concrete fact. He came up with crap meant to be of use TO the layman.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM

GWB…I’m sorry you think that way. Liberal trolls…oy vey.

The CJ Political Report on March 19, 2013 at 4:29 PM

No. Because I originally stated concrete fact. He came up with crap meant to be of use TO the layman.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Okay, gotcha.

Missy on March 19, 2013 at 4:30 PM

Missy on March 19, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Yes and no. Lancy is stuck on using certain mic specs (the .224) of specific components as the identifying label of the weapon, where my point is the entire industry calls it a .223 caliber weapon. If you’re going to talk to someone about buying an AR-15 type rifle, the standard choices you have are .223 caliber, .308 caliber, or .22 Long Rifle (LR). You will not find a .224 caliber AR-15 from Colt, Windham, Bushmaster, Olympic, or most any other manufacturer.
The way he’s talking is like saying you drive an 87 Octane car, or that you go to the lumber yard and buy a 1 1/2 X 3 1/2 board – instead of a 2 X 4.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:33 PM

At some point libs are going to have to make it illegal to move out of their states.

If they could get away with it.. I bet they’d build fences around their state lines and close their borders. The same people who refuse to secure our nation’s borders would be the first to close their state’s border to keep people from leaving.

It’s the natural order of things.

JellyToast on March 19, 2013 at 4:35 PM

I would love it if this fine company would come to Texas. After all, we have so many industries here that have been abused by liberals. We are where companies come to really do business in a friendly climate. (And the weather ain’t bad either)

Freed0m28 on March 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Can’t imagine MagPul moving to any state that is not solid red. Why risk yet another move. At this point there are just a few, and Alaska is not cost effective nor weather friendly. That leaves TX or some other Northern states such as Montana, Dakotas and maybe Idaho.

riddick on March 19, 2013 at 4:38 PM

I have however seen .222 cartidges on the shelf – and the guy who bought them has an oddball European rifle of some sort – can’t remember.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:22 PM

..yes, I am sure I wanted .223 and, yes, I am sure I got .222 and, yes, I am sure the guy at the mail order place was an Adam Henry. (By the way, it was NOT Midway, Cabela’s, or Natchez.)

The .222 was a biggie in the U. S. in the 50s and is a tad shorter than the Remington .223 round. I figured I would keep the dies because one day I might stumble across a Sako or CZ bargain chambered in .222 and could neck down the some of the 43 long tons of .223 brass I have.

The War Planner on March 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM

Sorry, Missy, but I can’t allow you to have erroneous or partial information.

the .223 Remington cartridge was invented in 1957 in conjunction with Armalite to go with their AR15 rifle.

A company can name the cartridge anything they want and since Remington manufactured it first, they called it the .223 Remington ( to avoid confusion with their .222 Remington, a cartridge that will not interchange).

Over the years, .223 Remington became simply the .223. Even though the actual groove and bullet diameter is an industry standard .224 inches.

Smith & Wesson invented the .38 Smith & Wesson Police Special in response to the defunct .38 Long Colt being ineffective against the Moros in the Phillippines.

Smith & Wesson, in inventing the round, were entitled to name it whatever they wanted to (even though the actual bullet diameter is .358″ for a lead bullet and .357 for a jacketed one).

Nobody ever goes to the gunshop and says “Gimme a box of .38 Smith & Wesson Specials. Hence the name morphed into simply .38 Special

The same applies to the .223 Remington.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:43 PM

At some point libs are going to have to make it illegal to move out of their states.

It’s the natural order of things.

JellyToast on March 19, 2013 at 4:35 PM

You saw what obama’s NLRB tried to do to Boeing a couple of years ago.

Don’t think it can’t happen.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:44 PM

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:33 PM

It seems to me that there is a certain usefulness in keeping to the more widely-used naming conventions in general conversation.

But it’s also possible to acknowledge the inaccuracy of the naming conventions when appropriate.

At any rate, I’ve learned something from the back and forth.

Missy on March 19, 2013 at 4:44 PM

The CJ Political Report on March 19, 2013 at 4:29 PM

I was not identifying you as a liberal troll. Most of the folks here could name the commenters that I mean, without even trying.

GWB on March 19, 2013 at 4:46 PM

Nobody ever goes to the gunshop and says “Gimme a box of .38 Smith & Wesson Specials. Hence the name morphed into simply .38 Special

The same applies to the .223 Remington.

Lanceman on March 19, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Which is exactly what I’ve been saying. Nice to see you finally admit it.
You also don’t go to the store and ask for a box of .224 ammo or for a .224 caliber AR-15.

dentarthurdent on March 19, 2013 at 4:55 PM

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