Reports: Bipartisan Senate immigration proposal will grant citizenship to illegals in 13 years

posted at 12:01 pm on March 18, 2013 by Allahpundit

So say the NYT and WaPo. Obama’s own immigration proposal, by contrast, imagines citizenship for illegals in, er … 13 years. So that’s what having four Republicans in the “Gang of Eight” gets you — the same basic scheme as our very liberal president.

Cory Booker should be ready to run by 2028, so there you go. You’re welcome, Cory.

The arrangement would shrink the amount of time it takes to become a naturalized citizen, to three years from five years. But in an appeal to Republicans, it would also extend to 10 years, from 8, the amount of time that illegal immigrants must wait before receiving permission to work in the United States permanently…

Among those obstacles is a continuing concern among Republicans that a three-year naturalization process for illegal immigrants could give them a faster path to citizenship than people who enter legally. One possible solution, officials said, would be to reduce the wait for citizenship to three years for everyone. But they said the agreement could still unravel.

“We can’t create a system where it’s faster for illegal immigrants than for legal immigrants,” said one Republican familiar with the internal debate who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “Republicans are clear that they are not going to create a special pathway to citizenship.”…

And as a side benefit, waiting a decade would mean that the costs of the overhaul would not kick in until the second decade because illegal immigrants do not qualify for government benefits until after they earn green cards. That means the 10-year cost estimates by the Congressional Budget Office would not include the expense of those benefits.

The cost of ObamaCare was gamed in a similar way. With O-Care, Democrats needed a way in 2010 to push the 10-year cost of the bill under a trillion dollars so that it’d be easier for the public to swallow. Solution: Postpone the start of the program until 2014, thereby rendering the cost for 2011, 2012, and 2013 effectively zero. In this case they’re pushing the total costs of new entitlements for illegals entirely out of that 10-year window, with the full brunt to hit circa 2026 — right as America’s long-awaited entitlement-driven debt crisis is hitting full force.

As for the timeline, Obama’s immigration plan imagines a green card in eight years and citizenship in five. Senate Democrats agreed to make the green-card period for this bill 10 years so that Rubio and McCain could treat us like idiots in arguing that they’d won some big concession. In fact, here’s what Rubio wrote at Red State back in January:

First, those who have violated our immigration laws must come forward and undergo a background check. If they have committed a serious crime, they will be deported. If they have not, they will have two choices. They can avail themselves of the current law which requires them to return to their native country, wait ten years and then apply for a green card. Or if they decide to remain in the United States, they will do so under the equivalent of a non-immigrant work permit by paying a substantial fine and back taxes. If they choose the non-immigrant work visa, they will not qualify for any federal benefits, including ObamaCare.

Those who choose the non-immigrant work permit will not be allowed to apply for a green card for a substantial period of time. And they will not be allowed to apply until the enforcement mechanisms outlined above are in place. Thereafter, once these conditions are met, and if they have not violated any laws while holding the work permit, the only thing they will be allowed to do is apply for a green card using the same process everyone else uses. That is, they apply, they wait in line behind everyone who has applied before them and when their turn comes up, they have to qualify for one of the existing green card programs.

I reasoned the next day that “substantial period of time” must mean a period considerably longer than 10 years. Otherwise, what incentive is there to choose the first option Rubio offers? If you’re getting a green card in the same amount of time no matter whether you stay in America or you leave, then there’s no incentive to leave. And yet that’s where we are today. The “substantial period of time” is the same period as the normal green-card period. And unless Congress tweaks the law so that legal immigrants can apply for citizenship in three years instead of five — which Dems will be happy to spearhead, I assume — then illegals will actually reach citizenship faster than legal immigrants will.

The only hitch is that illegals might have to wait an extra year or two for the green-card process to begin if Rubio gets his way by insisting that border-enforcement improvements be put in place before anything related to citizenship starts happening. But that’s still an open question, and meanwhile Rubio’s continuing to work on the bill and to lend his conservative cred to the compromises they’re reaching. What if they hammer out a final deal on the remaining issues — guest-worker program, visas, E-verify — and then Democrats turn around and declare that there’s no way they’ll make the citizenship process contingent upon border security as a trigger? Rubio might walk away at that point, but so what? They’ll have a bill that’ll have his support on every major plank except that one, and there are probably seven or eight Republican squishes in the Senate who’ll vote for it regardless. McCain, Graham, Collins, Murkowski — you know the names by now. In fact, the RNC’s new “autopsy” released today fully endorses comprehensive immigration reform as a partial solution to the party’s woes. Pro-amnesty Republicans have plenty of cover on this from the top. The only question is whether there are enough of them who think they can survive primary challenges to join Reid and Schumer on passing the bill.

In case you missed the previous 800 iterations of this argument, here’s Matthew Cooper at National Journal once again reminding Republicans that Latinos are solidly liberal on the issues and not likely to switch to the GOP anytime soon.


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In what universe is this considered an intelligent policy? In what way is this good policy for the U.S.? I understand it may be good policy for the illegals and it is certainly great political strategy for the dems – who the illegals turned citizens will overwhelmingly vote for. But exactly what benefit does the U.S. derive out of making millions of uneducated, unskilled people legal immigrants and impliedly inviting millions upon millions more uneducated, unskilled people to come here illegally? How is that good policy?

If America needs immigrants – fine. State that and change the immigration laws so that we allow more people to immigrate here legally that we do background checks on, make sure are educated and can earn enough to take care of themselves and their families with no gov’t handouts. You know, make a legitimate, rational policy and then actually apply that policy through laws and enforcement.

Monkeytoe on March 18, 2013 at 12:20 PM

The point of this policy is to put all the illegals on welfare and buy their votes (especially given that the universe of available jobs is shrinking while the number of illegals keeps surging). A lot of ignoramuses are convinced that if we do this, all 30+ million illegals will stampede to the voting booths to cast their ballots for Republicans. It’s a mixture of plain stupidity, ignorance of economics, and naked lust for power. Not too different from the Democrats, come to think of it.

So I guess that you agree with AP that the Republicans are never going to win another Presidential election.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 12:47 PM

Instead of wasting time on pie-in-the-sky, Democrat-style vote buying schemes which are doomed to fail, you might try thinking about how the GOP won in 2010 and discover how to apply those lessons to the future. If your really believe that the GOP cannot win elections anymore with its present base, then we should have lost 2010 decisively.

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Oh geez I don’t know about that. I hope you are more knowledgeable than me about this, but it doesn’t look good. The establishment is going all in on this and will force it through in the House with a minority of Republican votes. All democrats in the House will vote in favor because democrats will get most of the credit with Obama in the White House. I’m sure some Democrats were against it in 2007 just because they didn’t want to give Republicans credit for it.

Wigglesworth on March 18, 2013 at 1:13 PM

We shall see… In the meanwhile be angry and make sure that your congress person knows that you are angry about giving illegal immigrants citizenship…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

anotherJoe on March 18, 2013 at 1:08 PM

Every state that is on the border and near border states, like OK where I am, we are seeing a huge influx of illegals…

I am just wating for my town to adopt more dual language signage…

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

We can’t continue to import poverty just because it’s one ethnicity or one race or another.

What we have now is poverty imports it’s relatives. What results is more Democrats voting for more and more from others.

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:20 PM

In 2016 Rubio will have to run somewhere.

FlaMurph on March 18, 2013 at 12:29 PM

How about Venezuela? I heard they have an open position for him.

Archivarix on March 18, 2013 at 1:21 PM

How about Venezuela? I heard they have an open position for him.

Cuba may soon have one too, if he’s patient.

hawkeye54 on March 18, 2013 at 1:23 PM

And all this talk about Rubio being such a great politician, etc…

Look what his primary efforts are targeting for proof of the opposite.

I know people are sensitive about Rubio and others like him as children of new-immigrants. BUT LOOK WHAT THEY PURSUE once in public office.

People of the first generation of US citizens seem to still be involved in the views, beliefs, goals and such of the place from whence they or their parents came from. Which oftentimes is just contrary to the US as a Republic.

I’m very happy that people immigrate legally to the US, very happy about that, indeed. I think only that their “becoming American” experience needs another generation to be fully genuine.

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:23 PM

Every state that is on the border and near border states, like OK where I am, we are seeing a huge influx of illegals…

I am just wating for my town to adopt more dual language signage…

I’m waiting for mine to do away with outdated signs in English. If its dual, the other language would be Vietnamese.

hawkeye54 on March 18, 2013 at 1:24 PM

The GOP is just wrong, wrong, wrong on this issue. What they’re doing is trying to get out in front of the DNC by acting More-Democrat than the Democrats: it’s vote pandering and worse, it’s failed vote pandering because all this deed will accomplish, if passed (their amnesty plan), will be they’ll lose even more votes AND registered voters.

This is the one issue (well, maybe one of the two issues) that will have me re-registering as Independent and dropping my Republican registration.

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 12:56 PM

^^^^
This! Absolutely correct… we see it all the time. For example, Scott Brown tried to run as a liberal against a liberal and we all know how that turned out. Does the LAW mean anything anymore?

dpduq on March 18, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Our political class is merging itself into one entity. The pace is accelerating. There are fewer substantive differences between the GOP and the Democrats every day.

I’ve decided that if the GOP goes along with granting this amnesty and continues down the path of the Democrats there is no real difference between the parties of any consequence. We stand on the brink of a nation that no longer has two different parties, but just one political class pitching the same policies and ideas with different rhetoric.

Given this appalling state of affairs, if the GOP continues to facilitate a general amnesty I will not vote for a single GOP candidate in the next election, or any election.

thatsafactjack on March 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

I sincerely hope that Rubio loses his next primary.

FloatingRock on March 18, 2013 at 1:27 PM

I am honestly confused. If the illegal immigrants are these poor downtrodden people toiling off the books doing the “jobs Americans won’t do” for wages below minimum – how are they supposed to pay substantial fines and their past tax liability? Who is goingto determine how much they owe? If they have no money are we going to deport them?

The “substantial fines” won’t be a problem for any of the illegals, and here’s why: the amnesty bill will give the Secretary (of HHS) the legal authority to waive the fines for any illegal aliens who claim financial hardship. There will be no requirements for proving actual financial “hardship” and there will be no limits on how many waivers can be granted.

As to the “back taxes” requirement, that will also be a joke. In the last (failed) amnesty bill, the illegals were permitted to choose two years (no matter how many years they had actually lived and worked illegally in the U.S.) for which they would file back tax returns. There were to be no penalties or fines assessed for non-payment of taxes for those two years, and there was to be no interest charged if the illegal actually owed taxes for those years. Of course, since the illegal him/herself was entitled to choose the two years, they’d naturally choose the two years in which they had the least income (or at least, the lowest amount of proveable income). And again, the Secretary had the authority to waive even these joke tax requirements for any illegal (and as many illegals) as she liked.

As for the promise that the newly-legalized illegals won’t be eligible for federal welfare benefits like Obamacare subsidies, that is also a lie. Obamacare specifically provides that any person legally present in the U.S. is eligible for the subsidies. As soon as the illegals receive their “non-immigrant work visa” they will be legally present in the U.S. and thus eligible for Obamacare subsidies.

AZCoyote on March 18, 2013 at 1:27 PM

In fact, the RNC’s new “autopsy” released today fully endorses comprehensive immigration reform

A paid advertisement by government cronies?

FloatingRock on March 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

I’m thinking we are going to be reading/hearing this message for the next years about how we “just have to have amnesty”…

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2013/03/17/gop-to-devote-10-million-to-reach-hispanic-black-and-asian-communities/

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM

“We can’t create a system where it’s faster for illegal immigrants than for legal immigrants,”

Sure we can……they’re all potential Democratic voters!

GarandFan on March 18, 2013 at 1:31 PM

That should have been DHS, not HHS, in my comment.

Stupid fingers.

AZCoyote on March 18, 2013 at 1:31 PM

NO. FLIPPING. WAY.

John the Libertarian on March 18, 2013 at 12:05 PM

Dude?

Oh, let’s all jump on Rubio because RINO and squishy and devils and SHAMNESTY!!11!1!

John the Libertarian on February 3, 2013 at 2:04 PM

sauldalinsky on March 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM

I am honestly confused. If the illegal immigrants are these poor downtrodden people toiling off the books doing the “jobs Americans won’t do” for wages below minimum – how are they supposed to pay substantial fines and their past tax liability? Who is goingto determine how much they owe? If they have no money are we going to deport them?

I’ve asked similar questions time and time again, never to EVER read/hear ANY answers to these questions.

Another thing that remains unanswered if not avoided by the political class:

– their ongoing amnesty plans (various, all of them) ONLY EMPHASIZE JUST TO WHAT EXTENT ENFORCEMENT IS NEEDED;

all these illegal aliens won’t comply with all these demands being laid out, and most of them also all insist they’re not leaving anyway, so what do we do about them?

We’ll be issuing amnesty and also “simply coexisting” with the illegal aliens who DON’T comply, as now?

So what’s with that? Any plans for increased enforcement of our laws? No? If not, why not because it will certainly we REQUIRED IF the politicos think they’re “amnesty” plans will be viable.

In other words, no amnesty plan will be viable IF there’s no increased enforcement, and, of course, not all illegal aliens will even comply with amnesty plan requirements, so they’ll need some remedy. Or they’ll carry on as they already have unless DC thinks this problem through, which apparently they aren’t planning to.

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM

If Chuck Schumer is smiling, I don’t like it.

Adjoran on March 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM

This plan is pure suicide for the Republicans, if it is passed the divide among Hispanics and the Republicans will never be healed. Latinos will continue there road to poverty with the Democrats before they side with Republicans. Three to five year waiting period may work, but 10 to 13 years, forget about it.

DDay on March 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Whatever it was it is about as much of the white vote as he can expect to get.. Limosine liberals in Seattle and New York aren’t going to suddenly vote Republican.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 12:39 PM

Working class white voters in places like Iowa and PA might. There’s also room to improve among white women, by avoiding stupid comments on rape. The GOP has gotten over 60% of the white vote in two out of the past 11 elections, they can do it again. In fact, given that the white vote has recently been trending GOP, it’s not implausible that winning over 60% of the white vote may become the norm.

Of course, over the long term the GOP will need to do better with nonwhites, but there’s no evidence that supporting amnesty will achieve that. The things that will help the GOP do even better with whites (more focus on the middle class, less focus on preserving low tax rates for the top 2%) will help them with Hispanics too.

Jon0815 on March 18, 2013 at 1:36 PM

Go ahead GOP!Make my day.It is high time that conservatives kicked your sorry butt to the curb.For too long you have used us and abused us.For too long many of your candidates have campaigned as conservatives only to betray us once in office.For too long you have sacrificed principles until you have lost your identity.So go ahead.Embrace amnesty and watch what happens.Do you really think Hispanics will vote for you because you decided that sacrificing our national sovereignty was okay if you could pick up some votes?Do you really think that white male voters and married women are going to think it’s okay to let people invade our country without consequences?You have made your bed with your chosen demographic.Now hear this!Not another dime! No more volunteering my time! And never again will you get my vote! i will help destroy you before you and your Democrat pals destroy America!

redware on March 18, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Instead of wasting time on pie-in-the-sky, Democrat-style vote buying schemes which are doomed to fail, you might try thinking about how the GOP won in 2010 and discover how to apply those lessons to the future. If your really believe that the GOP cannot win elections anymore with its present base, then we should have lost 2010 decisively.
Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Outlier.

Genuine on March 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM

thatsafactjack on March 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Oh it is become so obvious of late…2 parties with one ideology.

It is time for Conservatives everywhere to come together…

The need for a new party is now!

The greed of politicians for a dang vote boggles my mind…it’s anything goes now, The People be damned…

I shall not vote either for any encumbent R…

Can only hope that a few rising stars are what they seem to be.

Time will tell!

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Whatever it was it is about as much of the white vote as he can expect to get.. Limosine liberals in Seattle and New York aren’t going to suddenly vote Republican.

There are limousine liberals, but to see the GOP’s lack of popularity in urban areas in those terms is a mistake. The GOP has become synonymous with yahooism in those places.

Frankly, when HA readers in their Comments immediately dismiss an article because it was written by Brooks, Frum, Douthat et al — regardless that HA editors believe their work worthy of a wider audience, and regardless of the merits of their specific arguments — they display exactly that kind of know-nothing behavior.

bobs1196 on March 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Amnesty is a done deal.

sauldalinsky on March 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

This makes a mockery of legal immigration on two fronts. First because, as somebody said, legal immigrants have to wait 5 years after they become permanent residents to apply for US citizenship. But even worse, today many legal immigrants might be forced to wait up to 10 years to get a greencard (after which they will have to wait 5 years for citizenship) in a status (H1B or F-1) that by NO MEANS guarantee that they will be able to get the greencard because that status depends on continuous sponsorship by an employer or by an institution of higher learning. If they loose their jobs or leave their institutions of higher learning without a degree they lose their legal status as well. However, these illegals will be put in a status that guarantees their legal status for as long as it takes for them to be eligible for a greencard, then makes citizenship easier. Pathetic.
I had to wait 9 years to get my US citizenship. I’ve known cases of people who waited 15 years or more since they came legally to the US to become citizens. Now, you are illegal, you will have a 13 year guarantee to citizenship.

I can already see the advise that many immigration attorneys will give to people who are currently waiting in the greencard queue: become an illegal immigrant!!

p_incorrect on March 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 1:15 PM

Our political class is merging itself into one entity. The pace is accelerating. There are fewer substantive differences between the GOP and the Democrats every day.

I’ve decided that if the GOP goes along with granting this amnesty and continues down the path of the Democrats there is no real difference between the parties of any consequence. We stand on the brink of a nation that no longer has two different parties, but just one political class pitching the same policies and ideas with different rhetoric.

Given this appalling state of affairs, if the GOP continues to facilitate a general amnesty I will not vote for a single GOP candidate in the next election, or any election.

thatsafactjack on March 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Amen, sistah!

herm2416 on March 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM

If Chuck Schumer is smiling, I don’t like it.

Adjoran on March 18, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Yes, I agree. He’s smiling because…more Democrat voters means more advancement in Communism as US socio-political method of government.

Otherwise, why?

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:40 PM

This makes a mockery of legal immigration on two fronts.

Yes, it does.

Why legally immigrate, wait ten years or more filling out forms and paying fees and all those interviews and waits in offices and lines and all those phone calls and …

… why endure all that when you can just jump into the US as a tourist and then overstay your visa and then live here while waiting for your “amnesty” to be available?

This entire discussion, even the discussion, about amnesty for illegal aliens makes a mockery of EVERY person who has legally immigrated to the US, who has had the good character to do it all legitimately.

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Outlier.

Genuine on March 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM

It certainly is going to be an outlier if you folks continue pursuing the policies that lost us the 2006, 2008, and 2012 elections.

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:45 PM

This plan is pure suicide for the Republicans

No its homicide….as the GOP elites guiding the party to destruction will simply go completely to the dark side from the shadows and become full-fledged converts to the USA’s Ruling Party.

hawkeye54 on March 18, 2013 at 1:46 PM

GOP 2026 – RIP

RJL on March 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Given this appalling state of affairs, if the GOP continues to facilitate a general amnesty I will not vote for a single GOP candidate in the next election, or any election.

thatsafactjack on March 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM

I’m already there. I basically said “enough” after the Republicans threw away the election and immediately rushed to blame conservatives, despite having wilfully ignored the warning signs of problems with Romney’s candidacy that we were seeing as far back as early 2012. I’d have left even earlier if I wasn’t concerned about Obama’s illegal power grabs.

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:48 PM

GOP 2026 – RIP

Give the GOP elites calling the shots, and it’ll be closer to 2020, if not sooner.

hawkeye54 on March 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

So much for the “Oath of Office”. So much for looking out for the best interests of legal, American citizens. There better be a law that keeps them out of the welfare system permanently. The federal government needs to be abolished. Give the individual states back their intended rights. That way, if a person doesn’t like the states politics, they can relocate. We have no choice when the federal government is involved in our lives. They have destroyed this nation, all of them.

F_This on March 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Forget Clinton reelection – Without Perot- Clinton most likely loses his first election shot in a one-on-one race. (I had to check- Clinton won by 5 million votes – Perot got 19 million votes, in a 2 on 1 duel)
You’re making my case with the Slick Willie analogy.

Yep.. Perot voters were totally going to flipped to an incumbent with a 37% approval rating. Either they would have stayed home or voted for Billy Jeff.

And our other Senator is a very secure liberal Democrat who does not have those worries about keeping his seat, as Rubio does.

Because the Republicans always run lousy candidates against him. Connie Mack and Katherine Harris weren’t winners.

Florida is a very blue shade of purple.

The state that Romney almost won and would have won if Rubio had been VP?? But thanks for just confirming the fact that you think that the Republicans are doomed to never win another national election again. It so nice to have so many pessimists around. I’ll just go home and shred my voter id card because if we cannot even win Florida, then I shouldn’t bother voting in an election ever again.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Give the GOP elites calling the shots, and it’ll be closer to 2020, if not sooner.

hawkeye54 on March 18, 2013 at 1:50 PM

If amnesty passes, we will likely be gone when the rump GOP is swept of power in 2016 by a tsunami of newly minted Democrats. I don’t believe for a minute in this 13 year waiting period – some way around it will be found by the Democrats (or else the courts will invalidate it).

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:53 PM

I very much appreciate the RNC’s stance on immigration reform. This is a major and constructive step forward for the Republican Party.


Lindsey Graham (@GrahamBlog) March 18, 2013

Pork-Chop on March 18, 2013 at 1:55 PM

Amnesty is a done deal.

sauldalinsky on March 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM

I do not think so… In 2007 the political conditions were even more favorite for amnesty and it did not happen… The democrats controlled both houses of Congress and President Bush was 100% behind it and it did not happen…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

If amnesty passes, we will likely be gone when the rump GOP is swept of power in 2016 by a tsunami of newly minted Democrats.

Which is why, if CONgress can’t get it done sooner, Barry’s always ready with pen in hand for EOs to accomplish the mission, along with may a compliant bureaucracy, from local to fed, ready to do his bidding.

hawkeye54 on March 18, 2013 at 1:57 PM

If your really believe that the GOP cannot win elections anymore with its present base, then we should have lost 2010 decisively.
Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

These kinds of comments convince me my decision to walk away from this farce was the correct one. Doomberg, the reason the GOP won 2010 was because it was not the “cool” election. You had the DNC base of minorities and college kids who could not be bothered with it. If the media had hyped that election up as much as the presidential elections it would have been just another GOP loss.

I mean it is painful to be right all the time when it comes to politics. As I have stated for almost a decade now the GOP will slowly become the so called “Conservative” party that you find in England with a few token issues they claim to hold but never actually fight for. Any conservative who gives the GOP anything more than the finger is a total fool.

The only people that give a sh1t about GOP politicians on any level are individuals who make a living off of the corrupt game or individuals who see politics more as a sporting event in which they simply want the home to win.

Let me say it again:

THERE IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.
THERE IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.
THERE IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.
THERE IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.
THERE IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 1:57 PM

What is being done to change the motivation of the employers?
 
Once these illegals are suddenly legal and no longer working under the table, won’t other illegals simply take their place?
 
Aren’t we just looking at fewer legal jobs available to qualified applicants all around, and the exact same number of illegal aliens still working in the U.S.?

rogerb on March 18, 2013 at 1:58 PM

The state that Romney almost won and would have won if Rubio had been VP?? But thanks for just confirming the fact that you think that the Republicans are doomed to never win another national election again. It so nice to have so many pessimists around. I’ll just go home and shred my voter id card because if we cannot even win Florida, then I shouldn’t bother voting in an election ever again.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

There is an extreme pessimism on the conservative blogs… I wonder why these pessimist do not simply kill themselves… Cowardice?

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

I’ll just go home and shred my voter id card because if we cannot even win Florida, then I shouldn’t bother voting in an election ever again.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Now you are starting to get it. It is not pessimism, just realization that the system is broken and it cannot be fixed at the voting booth. As much as I respect the founding fathers they left out some items out of the constitution to ensure its own demise.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:00 PM

I do not think so… In 2007 the political conditions were even more favorite for amnesty and it did not happen… The democrats controlled both houses of Congress and President Bush was 100% behind it and it did not happen…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Most of the people who stopped amnesty in 2007 are in Rubio’s corner in 2013.

sauldalinsky on March 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM

There is an extreme pessimism on the conservative blogs… I wonder why these pessimist do not simply kill themselves… Cowardice?

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

So the success of the GOP is so important to you that you think people should kill themselves? Man…so glad you are on my side.

Don’t you ever get tired of sucking off the GOP?

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM

There are limousine liberals, but to see the GOP’s lack of popularity in urban areas in those terms is a mistake. The GOP has become synonymous with yahooism in those places.

Frankly, when HA readers in their Comments immediately dismiss an article because it was written by Brooks, Frum, Douthat et al — regardless that HA editors believe their work worthy of a wider audience, and regardless of the merits of their specific arguments — they display exactly that kind of know-nothing behavior.

bobs1196 on March 18, 2013 at 1:38 PM

I live in “White People” central, aka Evanston, IL and am considered a RINO and snob by lots of people here. I can tell you from my casual interactions that the “White People” set will never vote for a Republican for president. Many of these people work at the universities and non-for-profits for six figures and are reliant on government grants directly and indirectly for their salaries. They’re doing mighty well because of Obama’s bloated government spending. They also enjoy being liberals because it allows them to be the elite ordering the “li’l people” around. (Think Nanny Bloomberg.) Republicans are never going to win the Upper East Side of New York.

I just think that there is more of a chance that the Republican Party can appeal to a working class Latino family who might be concerned about the school that their children are attending or the economy or crime and gangs in their neighborhood. There is the sort of populist messaging that Rubio has been using about bailing out big banks and investing in Solyndras that I think can be appealing to them. Make it the middle/ working class against the big gov’t and business elites that are benefiting from the government largese. However, to do so, the GOP needs to convince Republicans these people that it isn’t racist. Hence immigration reform and better rhetoric.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 2:06 PM

There is an extreme pessimism on the conservative blogs… I wonder why these pessimist do not simply kill themselves… Cowardice?

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM

I think that the Rs can win in 2016 if they do more to embrace young people and Latinos… You?

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 2:07 PM

If you want to surrender than I advise that you do the honorable thing and commit suicide it will be the best for you and everyone else… The less number of pessimists alive the better it is for us to continue the fight against liberalism…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM

Let me clue you in on something. You are not “fighting” anything. You are just another Docker wearing, poindexter, GOP fluffer who does not have the mental capacity to fathom any alternative other than going down on whatever candidate the GOP throws in front of you.

Your childish answer of a false dichotomy of “surrender” shows the idiocy of many of the conservative base. Would one of you idiots tell me exactly I am trying to win with my blind support of your GOP?

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:08 PM

I don’t believe for a minute in this 13 year waiting period – some way around it will be found by the Democrats (or else the courts will invalidate it).

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:53 PM

Understand that the “13 year waiting period” under the proposed law is only a wait for the illegals to get U.S. citizenship. It is not a wait for legal residency in the U.S. They’re going to give them that more or less immediately, in the form of the so-called “non-immigrant work visa.” That visa gives them the legal right to live, and work, in the U.S. indefinitely. It also makes them “lawfully present” in the U.S., which is all they need to be legally eligible for Obamacare subsidies, and a host of other taxpayer-funded welfare benefits.

AZCoyote on March 18, 2013 at 2:10 PM

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:08 PM

Just do it and stop whining coward…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Good read by Bryan Preston

The “bold” ideas they proffer include passing comprehensive immigration reform, and Rubin deploys language like this to characterize those who oppose this boldness.

Don’t be surprised, however, to see a backlash from those appealing to anti-immigration exclusionists.

That’s quite a line, to use against fellow Republicans who prefer security and the rule of law over repeating the mistakes of the past. In my own case, I’m married to a legal immigrant. But I’m an “anti-immigration exclusionist” because I believe that the current push for what amounts to an amnesty is a bad idea, which will not help secure the border, hurts Americans workers by depressing wages, and will end up hurting sound policy over the medium and long term, until we come back around to another amnesty in a couple of decades?

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Why not kill yourself? If you think that all is lost and can never be won again then kill yourself and stop talking…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Why would I kill myself? Unlike fools such as yourself I am more concerned with my family than the success of your GOP, and I am content with how I am going to make that happen.

You are truly too stupid to be talking politics, much less voting.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:13 PM

A lot of ignoramuses are convinced that if we do this, all 30+ million illegals will stampede to the voting booths to cast their ballots for Republicans. It’s a mixture of plain stupidity, ignorance of economics, and naked lust for power. Not too different from the Democrats, come to think of it.

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 1:19 PM

It’s weird watching this, because even if they do “stampede” to vote Republican, it won’t matter – since they will really just be voting Democrat-lite. “Si, we like the pandering, and it is only half as insulting when the Republicans do it.”

GWB on March 18, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Limosine liberals in Seattle and New York aren’t going to suddenly vote Republican.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 12:39 PM

No, but sane conservative Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Blacks will vote for a principled leader.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Why would I kill myself? Unlike fools such as yourself I am more concerned with my family than the success of your GOP, and I am content with how I am going to make that happen.

You are truly too stupid to be talking politics, much less voting.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:13 PM

But your family is doomed and there is no hope for them according to your pessimism… Your children will be slaves to liberals as you are saying… There is no hope, all is lost…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:16 PM

The Rs will destroy the land more than the Ds. The former enable the latter in their Utopian aspirations, for different reasons, only power for themselves, in the end.

Boehner is your enemy. He sees no problem with the debt and he “fully trusts Obama”. Either he is an incredible dummy or Holder has a huge dossier on him.

This is how clueless the Rs are. They will sell you down the river.

The time for the political pitchforking is in 2014, or that’s the end.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Why legally immigrate, wait ten years or more filling out forms and paying fees and all those interviews and waits in offices and lines and all those phone calls and …

… why endure all that when you can just jump into the US as a tourist and then overstay your visa and then live here while waiting for your “amnesty” to be available?

Lourdes on March 18, 2013 at 1:43 PM

Excellent points. Expect a huge influx of illegals if this passes.

bw222 on March 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

The #1 enemy of conservatives is not Obama and the Democrats. It is the GOP establishment.

bw222 on March 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

But your family is doomed and there is no hope for them according to your pessimism… Your children will be slaves to liberals as you are saying… There is no hope, all is lost…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Where did I type that? Oh I didn’t, you just had to make that part up to try and stick with this childish “kill yourself” retort. You are a valuable asset to the GOP, please don’t ever let them tell you otherwise.

My family is in great shape and will be even better shortly. I don’t need your flaccid GOP to fight my battles like apparently you do. Maybe you should think about taking care of your own like a true conservative would instead of blathering about being a true GOP Bimbo..err…”fighter”.

Now go run along and donate to the RNC…ANOTHER BRAVE VICTORY FOR THE COURAGEOUS FIGHTER!

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:23 PM

Now you are starting to get it. It is not pessimism, just realization that the system is broken and it cannot be fixed at the voting booth. As much as I respect the founding fathers they left out some items out of the constitution to ensure its own demise.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:00 PM

No, they did fine with the document. Lincoln broke the bond when he forced the slave states to rejoin the nation. (you can try and argue Fort Sumter all you like, but the United States should have abandoned it, as it was property of the state of South Carolina who no longer was willing to house foreign troops.) It is no longer a free association between the states anymore. That is the first failure in this nation… It continued with the Republican Congress in 1909 submitting to the states the ratification of the 16th and 17th amendments which gave the power to tax income to the Federal Government, reducing the power of the states. Then the direct election of senators rather than appointment by the states, here again, reducing their power. This was followed by the Supreme Court being bullied by FDR who rammed through Social Security and the rest of his communistic manifesto. That pretty much destroyed the hard work of having put checks and balances into the constitution.

The states are no longer freely associated, they are forced to be servants to the Federal Government rather than be served by the Federal Government.
Due to the ability to tax wealth creation, the states lost the power of the purse, before they could withhold payments to Uncle Sam.
With the removal of the appointment of Senators, the States no longer hold a veto power in the Federal Government, allowing them to stop the appointment of Supreme Court Justices and the like.
Finally, with the Supreme Court Supremely Cowed, it no longer functions as a check on Federal Power, but a rubber stamp which appears to almost to the case side with that which makes America weaker.

These are not faults of the founding fathers. Other than the slavery thing… These are faults with how the American people have pissed away our Republic and replaced it with a MOBOCRACY.

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

From an headlines thread

And, meanwhile, our political and economic ‘leaders’ continue to undermine and ultimately destroy the country by allowing millions of illegals to move across the borders and change the fundamental legal basis of the nation.

We are no longer a nation of laws, but a nations of self-interested (politically/economically-gaining) traitors.

Until the existing laws are enforced, all talk about “immigration” is meaningless.

The country is being sold out.

Say Goodbye America.

Hello Nuevo Corruptistan.

profitsbeard on March 18, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:26 PM

The #1 enemy of conservatives is not Obama and the Democrats. It is the GOP establishment.

bw222 on March 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Plus several million. Rise against them for 2014, or say good bye to the land, for good.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Where did I type that? Oh I didn’t, you just had to make that part up to try and stick with this childish “kill yourself” retort. You are a valuable asset to the GOP, please don’t ever let them tell you otherwise.

My family is in great shape and will be even better shortly. I don’t need your flaccid GOP to fight my battles like apparently you do. Maybe you should think about taking care of your own like a true conservative would instead of blathering about being a true GOP Bimbo..err…”fighter”.

Now go run along and donate to the RNC…ANOTHER BRAVE VICTORY FOR THE COURAGEOUS FIGHTER!

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:23 PM

Your family will be slaves of state… It is the natural results of all is lost and you are saying all is lost…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:28 PM

If you want to surrender than then I advise that you do the honorable thing and commit suicide it will be the best for you and everyone else… The less number of pessimists alive the better it is for us to continue the fight against liberalism…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I’m against bannings but you are an idiot of the first rate.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

I mean it is painful to be right all the time when it comes to politics. As I have stated for almost a decade now the GOP will slowly become the so called “Conservative” party that you find in England with a few token issues they claim to hold but never actually fight for. Any conservative who gives the GOP anything more than the finger is a total fool.

That would be why I changed my affiliation after 2012. Believe me, I know what you’re talking about. And the GOP is already at “British Conservative Party” status.

What I am trying to do is to do my little part to persuade people to abandon the useless GOP. The faster it collapses, Whig style, the faster we can get started working on a real opposition movement instead of the current, potemkin-style opposition party that we sometimes see dictatorships use to present the illusion of democracy.

THERE IS NO POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 1:57 PM

Probably not before it gets much worse. We’ve seen the rise of Tsipras’ extreme leftist SYRIZA party in Greece and the more conservative UKIP has begun making serious inroads in the UK. My hope is that the current conservative base can prove a fertile ground for a more serious opposition party to grow.

But yes, just so we’re clear, I agree bankruptcy and economic collapse is all but inevitable.

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

These are not faults of the founding fathers. Other than the slavery thing… These are faults with how the American people have pissed away our Republic and replaced it with a MOBOCRACY.

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 2:24 PM

So what in the Constitution prevents a Republic from becoming the MOBOCRACY you so accurately describe?

That is my point. The founding fathers were sort of naive in their assumptions about the morality of the citizen.

Until there is an amendment which states another voter cannot vote themselves the property or livelihood of another voter then the document is flawed and doomed for implosion.

I think in another 1000 years, the next great Republic will get it right.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Your family will be slaves of state… It is the natural results of all is lost and you are saying all is lost…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Check your paystub…your grandparents were slaves of the state and you and I are just the latest generation. The poor are your taskmasters.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:31 PM

I’m against bannings but you are an idiot of the first rate.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Go f*** yourself…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:00 PM

Perhaps they left out certain things because they were not of a mind to have a 2 party system!

The founding fathers wanted to create a government like they saw the Native Americans using as far as personal freedoms. This is seen in the Albany Plan of Union, written by Bejamin Franklin. They had other sources, and were also used to the Britsh Government, a Parlimentary constituional monarchy. In additions, they had some fears and problems of their own– like slavery, and a fear of too much power in the hands of the government. One of their great fears was party politics. They repeatedly warned against political parties, as you can see in the Federalist Papers, and some of Washington’s speaches.Obviously, if they opposed a two-party system, they would not have favored one. They did form parties, the Federalist, the Democratic-Republican, the Whig and various others. The Democrats didn’t even form until Andrew Jackson ran for office. The Republicans waited until the 1840s. They later took care to create ballot access laws to keep Independent and third party candidates from competing.

The Albany Plan of Union was a proposal made at the Albany Congress back in 1754 aimed at a formation of a strong union of the colonies under one single government and direction. The need was justified because of the necessity for defense against the threats and consequences posed by the infamous French and Indian War. It was proposed by Benjamin Franklin, and was among the many plans presented by the different delegates that participated in the Albany Congress.

The Plan called for a general government to be administered by a President General, to be appointed and supported by the Crown, and a Grand Council to be chosen by the representatives of the colonial assemblies. After the larger group of delegates discussed their issues and objections, they resolved them most and adopted the Plan. They sent copies to each of the Colonial Assemblies and to the British Board of Trade in London. The colonial assemblies and the British representatives rejected the Albany Plan.

Benjamin Franklin wrote of the rejections: “The colonial assemblies and most of the people were narrowly provincial in outlook, mutually jealous, and suspicious of any central taxing authority.”

Many in the British government, already wary of some of the strong-willed colonial assemblies, disliked the idea of consolidating additional power into their hands. They preferred that the colonies concentrate on their part in the forthcoming military campaign. The Board of Trade never sought official approval for the Plan from the Crown. They proposed that colonial governors, along with some members of their respective councils, order the raising of troops and building of forts, to be funded by the Treasury of Great Britain. This amount would later have to be repaid, and Parliament imposed a tax on the colonies to pay for the defenses in North America.

The proposed Galloway Plan, proposed at the First Continental Congress, bore striking resemblance to the Albany plan. It was submitted by conservative Loyalists and quickly rejected in favor of more radical proposals.

In the aftermath of the Revolutionary War, the Albany Plan of Union inspired some aspects of the draft Articles of Confederation.

Sometimes we have to go way back to discover the roots of what we have today.

Would it have made any difference today? One can only speculate…

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 2:34 PM

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

You’er a vulgar idiot.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:35 PM

But yes, just so we’re clear, I agree bankruptcy and economic collapse is all but inevitable.

Doomberg on March 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

And/or global war. It is the inevitable result of all empires throughout history.

We as conservatives can survive it however. In the future I don’t believe America will exist as it does today and will be split apart eventually, but honestly I think we would be better off.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:36 PM

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM

You’er a vulgar idiot.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Seconded!! I like your style there Schadenfreude!!

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 2:38 PM

You’er a vulgar idiot.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:35 PM

You deserve it…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Glad you’re back, Scrumpy.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

So what in the Constitution prevents a Republic from becoming the MOBOCRACY you so accurately describe?

That is my point. The founding fathers were sort of naive in their assumptions about the morality of the citizen.

Until there is an amendment which states another voter cannot vote themselves the property or livelihood of another voter then the document is flawed and doomed for implosion.

I think in another 1000 years, the next great Republic will get it right.

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:29 PM

No piece of paper, no matter how well written can prevent people from craving power and others ignorantly granting it to them.

The constitution was written I think as positive rights of government. There should be no requirement for an amendment to prevent it, the absence of the positive power to do so being written into the constitution should already preclude that possibility.

Why are we where we are today? I would say social security was the nail that finished off the Republic… There were the several I listed, and probably many more I did not that led to that situation.

I think we are past the point we can turn it around, now it is just a matter of time before the financial consequences reach their peak.

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Only fools don’t stop digging.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

ClassicCon on March 18, 2013 at 2:36 PM

In many ways I agree with you…

I do believe that it is the ultimate goal of both sides, a division of the US, it’s perhaps an unintentional ‘side effect’ of their ideologies, but I do see that split hapening…

I may not live to see it, but the handwriting is on the the wall.

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

You’er a vulgar idiot.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:35 PM

You deserve vulgarity… I am certain that you have an overrated view of yourself… I bet that your IQ does not exceed 105…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Yours must be 10.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Thank you! I feel renewed!! :-) Good to see you too ^5

Scrumpy on March 18, 2013 at 2:42 PM

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Yours must be 10.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Yeah… that is how I got a Bachelor in Physics and a Master in Mechanical Engineering…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Senate Plan = Obama 78,000,000 votes Romney 60,000,000 run those numbers down ballot and you can also kiss Texas, Arizona, Florida and several other solid Red states goodbye forever while you are doing the math.

Look what open borders have done for the EU…. a Scandinavian rape epidemic and 5/6 of the member states in a state of perpetual Bankruptcy. Brilliant work GOP…. #fail

Afterseven on March 18, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Yeah… that is how I got a Bachelor in Physics and a Master in Mechanical Engineering…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

I am certain that you have an overrated view of yourself.

You remained in first grade. Only idiots tell others to do themselves in.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Yeah… that is how I got a Bachelor in Physics and a Master in Mechanical Engineering…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

A problem people like you and me sometimes have is that really smart people do not apply enough of their braincells outside of a specific area, and you seem to have fallen prey to that failing. Try and get a few more employed brain cells working on things such as life and not so many in the abstract.

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Yeah… that is how I got a Bachelor in Physics and a Master in Mechanical Engineering…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Best worst example in history – Obama was elected, twice.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:50 PM

Yeah… that is how I got a Bachelor in Physics and a Master in Mechanical Engineering…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Book-smart and life-dumb, as astonerii summed up, perfectly.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:54 PM

ClassicCon, you are a saint.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM

But thanks for just confirming the fact that you think that the Republicans are doomed to never win another national election again.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Well, *I* don’t think the Republicans will never win another national election. I just don’t think it will matter, as the Republicans elected won’t be conservative. The looters outnumber the producers, and the looters will vote for more “free” stuff every time. The Republicans that will be elected will be more and more Democrat-lite every election cycle. Heck, the Republicans haven’t nominated a real conservative for President in three decades. (VP is a different story.) Oh yes, individual districts will still buck the trend a bit and elect some Tea Party-style conservative Representatives, but it won’t dent the trend.

GWB on March 18, 2013 at 3:00 PM

I bet that your IQ does not exceed 105…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM

And I’ll bet my mommy* can beat up your mommy! *shakes head* Such silliness.

*My mom is actually a black belt. Ornery woman started at 40! Woohoo! Go mom!

GWB on March 18, 2013 at 3:03 PM

GWB on March 18, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Common sense won.

High IQ lost.

Irony has a ball.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 3:05 PM

I think that the Rs can win in 2016 if they do more to embrace young people and Latinos… You?

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 2:07 PM

I agree! Of course, in embracing pandering to those groups, they won’t be any different than the Democrats that would otherwise get elected. So… whee!

GWB on March 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 3:05 PM

The problem is that you and some other folks here are bitter and pessimist fools… You think that all is lost and there is no hope… I wonder how your families and friends handle your bitterness and pessimism… I am certain that you are not fun to be around in real life… In the meanwhile I and many others will continue to fight liberalism and try to win… You can stand on the side and make snide remarks and beat your chest that it is not worth fighting anymore… We will not listen to your screaming…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

I’m neither and don’t care about what you will do/not do.

I’m simply schadenfreudig. A relatively free people always deserve their ‘leaders’. They elected, freely, every single one of them.

Schadenfreude on March 18, 2013 at 3:17 PM

The problem is that you and some other folks here are bitter and pessimist fools… You think that all is lost and there is no hope… I wonder how your families and friends handle your bitterness and pessimism… I am certain that you are not fun to be around in real life… In the meanwhile I and many others will continue to fight liberalism and try to win… You can stand on the side and make snide remarks and beat your chest that it is not worth fighting anymore… We will not listen to your screaming…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

The problem with your path is that it is futile. Nothing wakes an addict except hitting the ground at warp speed and ending up in a deep self inflicted hole. We all fight as best we can, but we also have to be responsible mature people and prepare and plan for the worst so that those around us that love us and we love will have a fighting chance.

Were you here over the last year cheering on Romney? I recognize the letters, but do not know what your real ideology is.

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 3:19 PM

The problem with your path is that it is futile. Nothing wakes an addict except hitting the ground at warp speed and ending up in a deep self inflicted hole. We all fight as best we can, but we also have to be responsible mature people and prepare and plan for the worst so that those around us that love us and we love will have a fighting chance.

Were you here over the last year cheering on Romney? I recognize the letters, but do not know what your real ideology is.

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 3:19 PM

I was supporting Romney when he became the nominee because the alternative was Obama… Romney was not my first, second, or even third choice… but he became the nominee and we stuck with him… Were you here supporting Obama?…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 3:23 PM

I agree! Of course, in embracing pandering to those groups, they won’t be any different than the Democrats that would otherwise get elected. So… whee!

GWB on March 18, 2013 at 3:14 PM

I don’t see what the GOP is doing is fracking. They needed to do the immigration reform flip as a sign to Latino voters. And I don’t see why we cannot just use the federalism argument for gay marriage. Neither of those are central planks in the GOP platform.

The rest of it is style.. How we speak to people. Rubio’s populism in his CPAC speech was a good start.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 3:27 PM

I was supporting Romney when he became the nominee because the alternative was Obama… Romney was not my first, second, or even third choice… but he became the nominee and we stuck with him… Were you here supporting Obama?…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Nope, I was here pushing for people cheering Romney on to call on him to move to the right where he needed to be to win the Election. Specifically demanding that he make at least one pledge on one solidly conservative policy that he would stake his second term on completing in the first term… I personally though Cut, Cap and Balance would have been the optimal device, but something, anything concrete for conservatives to get a win out of the election.

Instead, it was all shut the F&CK UP, SIT THE HELL DOWN and VOTE regardless if Romney is going to be Obama light!

astonerii on March 18, 2013 at 3:27 PM

I don’t see what the GOP is doing is fracking. They needed to do the immigration reform flip as a sign to Latino voters. And I don’t see why we cannot just use the federalism argument for gay marriage. Neither of those are central planks in the GOP platform.

The rest of it is style.. How we speak to people. Rubio’s populism in his CPAC speech was a good start.

Illinidiva on March 18, 2013 at 3:27 PM

The Republicans can do illegal immigration reform without giving the illegal immigrants citizenship and destroy the party chances of winning future elections… They can simply give the illegal immigrants working visas that can be renewed every 5 years and that these illegal immigrants must not have any access to welfare benefits…

In regards to gay marriage they can simply leave it up to the states voters to decide on this issue…

mnjg on March 18, 2013 at 3:32 PM

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