“Gay Conservative” isn’t a fictional term

posted at 8:31 am on March 16, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

We’re winding down toward the end of CPAC, but stories keep erupting which simply get under my skin. There has been more than sufficient evidence to talk about the way liberal activists have sought to divide America along various lines – racial, gender or what have you – but do conservatives really have to mimic it? Apparently, according to Cliff Kincaid, there’s plenty of room in the profiling pool for conservatives when it comes to gays and lesbians.

The term “gay conservative” is being used by some news outlets in connection with the upcoming Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) and whether certain homosexual groups should be invited to appear. There is no such thing as a “gay conservative,” unless the term “conservative” has lost all meaning. But there is a homosexual movement that has its roots in Marxism and is characterized by anti-Americanism and hatred of Christian values.

Two of this movement’s members, Bradley Manning and Floyd Corkins, have recently been in the news. Manning betrayed his country in the WikiLeaks scandal, while Corkins has pleaded guilty to trying to kill conservative officials of the Christian Family Research Council in Washington, D.C.

I have a few thoughts to share on this, but let me first turn it over to my friend Stephen Green... a.k.a Vodka Pundit.

So, Republicans, if you’d like to know why most people under the age of 40 would rather chew off their own elbows than vote Republican, look no further than Cliff Kincaid.

Or as my conservative Twitter buddy “Hugo Hackenbush” just wrote, “The AIM column is disgusting and repugnant. It reminds me of last year’s Derbyshire incident. Unfathomally hateful and gleefully proud of it.”

Allow me to go a bit further than that. I have no need to remind regular Hot Gas readers of my long running coverage of Bradley Manning. He disgusts me. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he may or may not be gay. He’s a traitor. Floyd Corkins may have not cared for the principles of the CFRC, but I allow him room to disagree. I don’t allow him room to try to kill people. This has absolutely zero to do with whether or not these people are gay or straight, liberal or conservative. It has to do with the fact that they are notorious criminals.

Victory in one battle in politics means nothing compared to working together to build a better future for America on sound, sustainable principles. Letting petty prejudice and hate get in the way of that will eventually see “the haters,” as Stephen puts it, left by the side of the road of history. If you want to spend your time worrying about “gay conservatives” at the gates of Utopia, you’re going to miss the actual danger of people in power who seek to spend you into oblivion while they strip away your rights to defend yourself or even drink a 17 oz soda.

Let’s all get a grip.


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Meh. Neither is good Nazi.

BigAnge on March 16, 2013 at 8:39 AM

“Gay Conservative” isn’t a fictional term

“Gay Conservative” isn’t a fictional term only because Republicans are just fanny pack Democrats… Conservatives are just old fashioned liberals.

Western Civilization would have been better off with italian fascism/spenglarian socialism.

Democracy is decadent mirage… freedom is failing.

ninjapirate on March 16, 2013 at 8:44 AM

Can we stop already?!?! Every day, it is gays in the military, gays in the Boy Scouts, what will the Pope do about gay “marriage”? Let’s focus on the normal 99% of the population for a couple of days! We have catastrophic debt issues, North Korea ready to allegedly nuke the daylights out of us, Detroit in bankruptcy, 50 million people on food stamps; why is there this bizarre obsession in the MSM with people have nothing better to do than to put their junk in the wrong hole?

BigAnge on March 16, 2013 at 8:47 AM

There was an old episode of Law & Order where Michael Moriarty’s character posed a question to his assistant: “Do you think of yourself as a black lawyer or a lawyer who’s black?” In regards to “gay conservatives”, I think a similar question should be asked.

eaglescout_1998 on March 16, 2013 at 8:51 AM

I’d like someone define for me the meanings of the terms, ‘arch conservative”, “purist conservative”, “radical conservative”, and all the other adjectives concocted by the Left. If I regard gay marriage a states’ issue instead of one imposed on the whole country by Supreme Court fiat, do I remain a Constructionist as I define myself, or do it fit into one of phony categories made up by liberals?

Liam on March 16, 2013 at 8:51 AM

from a poltical POV embracing a small minority over the majority is a lose/lose decision.

unseen on March 16, 2013 at 8:56 AM

If they promiscuously engage in their deviant behavior (see the dictionary definition) and value it about Conservative values, then, they are strictly the former, and not the later.

Conservatism is Conservatism.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 8:56 AM

“above”. not about

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 8:57 AM

Democracy is decadent mirage… freedom is failing.

ninjapirate on March 16, 2013 at 8:44 AM

freedom isn’t “failing” its being overthrown. Democracy isn’t decadent. We have no democracy in this country. We have the rule of the elite over an ignorant population.

unseen on March 16, 2013 at 8:58 AM

Can we stop already?!?! Every day, it is gays in the military, gays in the Boy Scouts, what will the Pope do about gay “marriage”? Let’s focus on the normal 99% of the population for a couple of days! We have catastrophic debt issues, North Korea ready to allegedly nuke the daylights out of us, Detroit in bankruptcy, 50 million people on food stamps; why is there this bizarre obsession in the MSM with people have nothing better to do than to put their junk in the wrong hole?

BigAnge on March 16, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Personally I just don’t get the gay obsession liberals and this country has. I think they are just a tool to tweak the conservatives with and when they have served their purpose they will be discarded like used toilet paper. Why do you think Hispanics are the “thing” right now? With the election of BO blacks are past their sell by date and the libs needed a new group to dominate. Same will happen to gays as soon as they are no longer useful to the cause.

Dr. Frank Enstine on March 16, 2013 at 9:00 AM

If you want to spend your time worrying about “gay conservatives” at the gates of Utopia, you’re going to miss the actual danger of people in power who seek to spend you into oblivion while they strip away your rights to defend yourself or even drink a 17 oz soda.

So we should just cover our eyes and pretend that there’s no attempt to mainstream homosexuality and to redefine marriage too then, eh Jazz?

There are a few different issues you’re dealing with here:

1.) The functionalist moral objection
2.) The Kantian moral sanity objection
3.) The marriage objection
4.) The children objection

The moral objection to homosexuality by itself comes from a combination of the philosophy of functionalism and a belief in a creator that would require one use that creation in the manner intended rather than in a perverted manner. Since I’m not someone who is religious, I don’t fall into this camp.

The sanity objection comes in the form of asking, “Is this a mental illness?” Certain instincts, desires, and behaviors we regard as intrinsically mentally unstable, from things as harmless as insisting on never stepping on the edges of tiled floors to things as harmful as kleptomania. If it is a mental illness, then the sexual affections born from it should also be considered such, and thus not love, but a perverted form of it. In turn, you become someone who uses other people as a means to an end for one’s own carnal pleasure. I’d fall into this camp.

The third objection, which is where the core of my policy objection lies with homosexual activists, regards the definition of marriage, and what its purpose is. I think it’s to establish a stable, committed relationship to provide a stable home for any children that are the result of that relationship. Homosexual lobbyists are seeking to dismantle and destroy this purpose by making it a free-for-all. I stringently object.

And finally, there’s the children objection, where gay activists are seeking to adopt, to be leaders in boyscouts, which makes one question why. And given the incidence of pedophilia / pederasty when kids are left alone with people who may already be mentally ill, there’s ample reason to think that gays wish to prey upon and pervert kids while they’re young. This is currently done in schools through the curricula too, putting on gay plays, instructing people as to what’s normal and healthy and what’s not.

So no, we’re not all going to get along.

Stoic Patriot on March 16, 2013 at 9:02 AM

I saw the title, and I knew it was Jazz. Jazz, there is no such thing as a “fictional term”. What you meant was that a “gay conservative” is not a fictional person. A “fictional term” would be a term/phrase that didn’t exist, not a term/phrase about something that didn’t exist. Really wish there were an editor around on the weekends to tighten up Jazz’s writing.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:03 AM

Personally I just don’t get the gay obsession liberals and this country has. I think they are just a tool to tweak the conservatives with and when they have served their purpose they will be discarded like used toilet paper. Why do you think Hispanics are the “thing” right now? With the election of BO blacks are past their sell by date and the libs needed a new group to dominate. Same will happen to gays as soon as they are no longer useful to the cause.

Dr. Frank Enstine on March 16, 2013 at 9:00 AM

That’s part of it. Political movements aside, gays serve as a weapon for people who feel ashamed of their sexual behavior in general to use against the (mostly religious) social organizations that make them feel ashamed.
The reality is, “gay marriage” is actually all about making people feel better about straight premarital sex.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:05 AM

Towards the mental illness bit, I would also like to specifically reference transgenders, or the “T” in LGBT. If you’re going to tell me they’re “just different” and that it’s in no way mentally twisted to want to maim and mangle your genitalia, then I really doubt we’re going to agree on what constitutes someone who’s mentally ill.

Stoic Patriot on March 16, 2013 at 9:06 AM

The moral objection to homosexuality by itself comes from a combination of the philosophy of functionalism and a belief in a creator that would require one use that creation in the manner intended rather than in a perverted manner. Since I’m not someone who is religious, I don’t fall into this camp.

Stoic Patriot on March 16, 2013 at 9:02 AM

You don’t have to be religious to accept that objection, Stoic. You can also form that objection on the basis of evolution – the obvious purpose to which those organs came to be is not and cannot be fulfilled in a homosexual relationship. Ergo, it is a perversion of the “normal order”. There is no philosophy/metaphysic under which homosexual behavior is not perverted, except one: hedonism.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:09 AM

So, Republicans, if you’d like to know why most people under the age of 40 would rather chew off their own elbows than vote Republican, look no further than Cliff Kincaid.

Never heard of him but just read that “even those close to him call him “Claven””

LOL.

Marcus on March 16, 2013 at 9:10 AM

You don’t have to be religious to accept that objection, Stoic. You can also form that objection on the basis of evolution – the obvious purpose to which those organs came to be is not and cannot be fulfilled in a homosexual relationship. Ergo, it is a perversion of the “normal order”. There is no philosophy/metaphysic under which homosexual behavior is not perverted, except one: hedonism.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:09 AM

Actually, the “they’re born that way” is inherently a religious angle of attack. The idea is to convince the religious to excuse homosexual behavior because “that’s what God created them to do”, regardless of clear evidence of it’s destructive nature.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:14 AM

As to the substance of Jazz’s objection above, who the he11 is Cliff Kincaid? I freely admit that I don’t know all the great conservative writers and pundits out there right now. But I don’t think I’ve ever heard of Cliff Kincaid before now. The name doesn’t appear anywhere on National Review and it only appears here and one other spot* on HotAir, so I’m thinking this is another tempest in a teapot, stirred up by non-conservatives.

* The other spot is an Ed Morrisey show from three years ago.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:15 AM

But it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he may or may not be gay.

Sorry, Jazz. The human animal is not wired that way. We can’t compartmentalize our influences and say there is no connection between them and our behaviors. To what extent his homosexual behavior affected his betrayal is not measurable but dollars to doughnuts says that if he had been, oh, say an evangelical Christian, the story would have had a different ending.

Cleombrotus on March 16, 2013 at 9:16 AM

The moral objection to homosexuality by itself comes from a combination of the philosophy of functionalism and a belief in a creator that would require one use that creation in the manner intended rather than in a perverted manner. Since I’m not someone who is religious, I don’t fall into this camp.

Stoic Patriot on March 16, 2013 at 9:02 AM

I’m not religious either, but I know not to try and fit a square peg into a round hole, same with certain body parts that just don’t fit.

bgibbs1000 on March 16, 2013 at 9:16 AM

Democracy is decadent mirage… freedom is failing.

ninjapirate on March 16, 2013 at 8:44 AM
freedom isn’t “failing” its being overthrown. Democracy isn’t decadent. We have no democracy in this country. We have the rule of the elite over an ignorant population.

Spengler would say that these are pretty much the same thing… democracy turns into an elite money and media-ocracy.

There’s no way for democracy not to be decadent in a capitalist society. The same is true for a multicultural society too.

True democracy is only possible in a monocultural socialist or distributionist society.

ninjapirate on March 16, 2013 at 9:18 AM

Can we stop already?!?! Every day, it is gays in the military, gays in the Boy Scouts, what will the Pope do about gay “marriage”? Let’s focus on the normal 99% of the population for a couple of days! We have catastrophic debt issues, North Korea ready to allegedly nuke the daylights out of us, Detroit in bankruptcy, 50 million people on food stamps; why is there this bizarre obsession in the MSM with people have nothing better to do than to put their junk in the wrong hole?

BigAnge on March 16, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Because moral decay is imperative for the left to be able to impose it’s tyranny.

bgibbs1000 on March 16, 2013 at 9:19 AM

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:14 AM

I understand that, Count, and agree. I was hoping to give Stoic a reason to broaden that first objection, and realize the defense doesn’t have to be a religious one. “Hey, I’m an evolutionist, and *I* think it’s perverted, too. Here’s why….”

As to the attack on religion through that avenue, it behooves those of us who are Christian to reply “Duh. All of us are ‘born that way’. It’s called original sin. That doesn’t excuse the behavior at all.”

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:20 AM

GAY!

Okay, we get it. Enough already. Stop whining. PLEASE “get a grip”!

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 9:21 AM

This seems to be the next front in the GOP squishes’/unwitting Democrat accomplices’ all-out offensive to redefine Conservatism,to mean “Liberal-lite”.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:22 AM

But there is a homosexual movement that has its roots in Marxism and is characterized by anti-Americanism and hatred of Christian values.

Karl Marx was married. To a woman.

rbj on March 16, 2013 at 9:28 AM

I think Jazz is confusing having conservative political positions with having a conservative philosophy. They are not the same.

Just because on the header of the door to the philosophy department says “Philosophy” doesn’t mean there are philosophers inside.

Cleombrotus on March 16, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Conservatism is Conservatism.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 8:56 AM

We accuse even our allies in these comments of “being liberal”, and you think there is a single definition for “conservative”?

There are conservatives who will argue that “leave be whom will let me be” is the ultimate form of conservatism — that the best conservative is one with the desire to maximize personal freedom through laws which do exactly that.

However, after Methodist Pavilion, I came to the conclusion that the overall gay agenda is not “leave be whom will let me be” — it’s to force those who want nothing to do with “gayness” — even for very good religious reasons — to allow it to occur on their premises.

When I’m faced with people who want to restrict my freedom of association (which is part and parcel of “leave be whom will let me be”), I push back — hard.

Here’s a badly written “thinkprogress” article which outlines the liberal view, and shows exactly how dangerous it is.

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/01/13/404274/new-jersey-judge-rules-against-discriminating-methodist-pavilion/

unclesmrgol on March 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM

Can we stop already?!?! Every day, it is gays in the military, gays in the Boy Scouts, what will the Pope do about gay “marriage”? Let’s focus on the normal 99% of the population for a couple of days! We have catastrophic debt issues, North Korea ready to allegedly nuke the daylights out of us, Detroit in bankruptcy, 50 million people on food stamps; why is there this bizarre obsession in the MSM with people have nothing better to do than to put their junk in the wrong hole?

BigAnge on March 16, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Does the world “fallocentric” ring a bell to you? Because Chimpout and other similarly-shunned sites use a much nastier term for the same concept when describing typical Democrat electorate’s interests.

Archivarix on March 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM

If they promiscuously engage in their deviant behavior (see the dictionary definition) and value it about Conservative values, then, they are strictly the former, and not the later.
Conservatism is Conservatism.
kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 8:56 AM

I think it’s perfectly fine if someone is gay or if they choose to be promiscuous. Who the heck are you to judge other people’s sex lives? And what a silly way to pose the issue: promiscuity trumping the Constitution? Give me a break. Let’s not be Santorum-style bedroom police.

Quit with the stupid cliched “deviant” crap. Who isn’t a little bit deviant? Let’s get over the fact that consenting adults can do whatever they wish. Really, are we in third grade?

I say we totally reject those who will denigrate other sexual orientations. We can support and promote traditional definition of marriage without getting into the denigration stuff.

The anti-homosexual bigots are on their way out, and the sooner we cast them off the better. Younger generations are very much turned off by the anti-gay stuff, as anyone should be.

Besides, there are more important issues to focus on, and this one is really hurting Republicans among younger voters.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 9:34 AM

unclesmrgol on March 16, 2013 at 9:30 AM

Is a gorilla a giraffe?

Let’s talk about American Freedom.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:39 AM

You know why their so much ghey coverage here and elsewhere?

Because it generates easy content.

Because a disproportionate amount of people in the media sector are LGB, compared to most other fields.

Because it’s an easy way to get embraced by your enlightened brethren.

While the Kincaid article is crap, that doesn’t make Shaw’s words some deep pontification.

The one thing you never see on HA – criticism of the tactics of the LGB advocacy groups or their fellow travelers, ala Cupp and Co.

Allah is in deep for the cause he couldn’t even muster the basic question about Cupp’s announcement; why do it on MSNBC to a prog audience, when you’re an employee of The Blaze? Who exactly was the statement meant to impress?

Nooooo…can’t ask that. Might get in the way of the message.

Did they even post Dan Savage’s school assembly verbal assault last spring?

budfox on March 16, 2013 at 9:39 AM

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 9:34 AM

Those tired old concepts of “morality” and “ethics” are sooo passe, aren’t they?/

Idjit.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:41 AM

I’m not religious either, but I know not to try and fit a square peg into a round hole, same with certain body parts that just don’t fit.

bgibbs1000 on March 16, 2013 at 9:16 AM

Liberalism really is a mental disorder. It’s seriously true. Get the disease of liberalism and it’ll make you think unborn life is expendable for convenience, people should be defenseless for their own good, and you can stick your John Thomas somewhere either God or evolution (depending on which you subscribe to) didn’t make that part to go.

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

Reading these comments leads me to believe social cons are killing this country. There’s some weird belief that prior to 1950 there were no immoral acts. That people loved God and country and everyone went to church on Sunday.

Nothing has changed other than technology. Gay people have been around for centuries. The difference is that the technology didn’t exist for it to be thrown in your face 24/7. Prior to television and radio your world was the town you were living in. The news outside of that town was read in a newspaper that would report happenings from days and weeks prior as “news”.

To think that all of a sudden our nation is crumbling due to gays or moral degeneration is silly in my opinion. Everything works it’s cycle. The pendulum swings one way, then another. A lot of what we’re seeing against religion is a generation that was raised with the “moral majority” being a bunch of hypocrites. We had televangelists stealing, committing adultery and flat out being anything but Christian in nature. When those things were so often reported in the televangelist heydays of the 80′s and 90′s, you’re going to get some backlash. We’re living through that right now.

And I’m not saying you have to embrace homosexuality or anything else you deem immoral. What conservatives need to stop doing is painting those people as “the enemy”. People may be misguided, but they’re not the enemy. Kill em with kindness.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

budfox on March 16, 2013 at 9:39 AM

The thread counts have been horribly down, lately.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:43 AM

When bluegill and Jazz are the voices of reason, you know HotAir has sunk pretty low.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 9:46 AM

I have no need to remind regular Hot Gas readers of my long running coverage of Bradley Manning. He disgusts me. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he may or may not be gay. He’s a traitor.

Amen, Jazz. Let PFC Manning be executed in a ballgown, if he thinks his transgender status should be a mitigating factor. It’s as silly as if I had turned traitorous and whined that it is because I’m a black woman.

Sgt. Vulcha

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on March 16, 2013 at 9:47 AM

How many prominent conservative Homosexuals are publicly outspoken in the media about opposing the liberal undermining of Constitutional Protections for Traditional Religions who oppose Gay Marriage?

workingclass artist on March 16, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Reading these comments leads me to believe social cons are killing this country.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

So you’ve chosen to ignore decades of liberal destruction because you’re butthurt about a few comments on a right-wing site that isn’t grovelling to the gayfia. Wow, aren’t you smart.

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:48 AM

When bluegill and Jazz are the voices of reason, you know HotAir has sunk pretty low.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 9:46 AM

You think bluegills’s foot-stomping BS is a voice of reason? Wow.

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:49 AM

Stoic Patriot on March 16, 2013 at 9:02 AM

Amen, Brother.

It is inherent in conservatism that the family is the basic organizing unit of society. Where families are strong and independent, growth and development faces fewer restrictions. Therefore, in the public sphere, policies should be implemented that promote the family by protecting their relationships and private property.

Statists, on the other hand, see the family as an obstacle to their objectives, which is growth of their own power under the guise of state support for everyone. There is no moral foundation in statism, and when members of society have no control over their selfishness, then taken to its logical extreme, government has no choice but to intervene and forcibly control the behavior of the inhabitants.

It is government dependence – but in reality it is slavery by another name.

Diminishing the value of the family and elevating homosexual practices tends to help achieve statist objectives. I can not see how someone can seriously claim a desire to advance conservative values while claiming to be “proud” that they practice homosexuality.

Greek Fire on March 16, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Besides, there are more important issues to focus on, and this one is really hurting Republicans among younger voters.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 9:34 AM

This issue is really hurting younger voters. More and more of them are being seduced into destructive lifestyles — embracing homosexual behavior is in some sense just a gateway.
I may be atheist, but even I can see that the great religions had their roots in rebuilding society after this kind of crap destroyed it.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:51 AM

“In literature they used to call it ‘the love that dare not speak its name’. But, if you watch the talk shows all over America it is the love that will not shut up.” Pat Buchanan

How do I know groups like Log Cabin Republicans and GOProud are not conservative? True conservatives are not interested in identity politics. We think of people, not groups. I’m a 44 year old woman and I have never in my life cared about so-called “women’s” political issues. I think about what’s good for Americans and my country, not what’s good for this group or that group. Lots of people pretend to be conservatives (especially at election time) but as a life-long staunch conservative I can spot the fakers a mile away.

Lizzy on March 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Very well said.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM

This issue is really hurting younger voters. More and more of them are being seduced into destructive lifestyles — embracing homosexual behavior is in some sense just a gateway.
I may be atheist, but even I can see that the great religions had their roots in rebuilding society after this kind of crap destroyed it.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Thank you. It really is. What’s at stake here is the foundation of society, which if liberals are allowed to destroy will leave youth utterly adrift. Marriage is just about the last sacred bastion in a sea of cultural sewage.

You don’t have to go to church or believe in God to realize that trying to pull morals out of a hat is liberal foolishness and that it inevitably leads to destruction.

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:56 AM

And I’m not saying you have to embrace homosexuality or anything else you deem immoral. What conservatives need to stop doing is painting those people as “the enemy”. People may be misguided, but they’re not the enemy. Kill em with kindness.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

If you’ll look a bit harder, you’ll see that it’s the other side who are claiming that conservatives are calling them “the enemy”. You’ve bought the line.

What conservatives are saying is that the idea that you can incorporate positions that derive from a non-conservative source INTO conservatism changes conservatism into something it is not. And THAT’S the enemy.

John Sullivan, former editor of National Review had a maxim which became known as Sullivan’s Law, which states that every entity which is not EXPLICITLY Conservative will eventually become Liberal. If you embrace political coalitions which are only marginally conservative in specific positions only, and not conservative in their entirety, that is, at their core, eventually one or the other will have to change to give way to the other.

Think of it this way: If people were invited into a church body without acknowledging that their beliefs were incompatible with church doctrines, eventually either the church will cease being a church and become something else or the new members will have to alter their beliefs. Get it? One or the other will happen.

Cleombrotus on March 16, 2013 at 9:57 AM

The anti-homosexual bigots are on their way out, and the sooner we cast them off the better.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 9:34 AM

It might be true that we are “on our way out”, but you certainly won’t be better off for it. (Oh, and you can stop with the “bigot” crap. It isn’t bigoted to hold that homosexuality is perverted, any more than it is to say that urban, inner-city culture is toxic.)

Younger generations are very much turned off by the anti-gay stuff, as anyone should be.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 9:34 AM

They are turned off by it because of their liberal indoctrination in school and through the media. It’s called propaganda, and it does work.

Besides, there are more important issues to focus on, and this one is really hurting Republicans among younger voters.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 9:34 AM

I would accept this argument if it were “gay bashers” who keep bringing the subject up, but it isn’t. It’s the homosexual lobby – within the ‘conservative’ realm and without – that keeps raising the issue and pushing for their perversion to be normalized.

Yes, it is perverted. Yes, yes, everyone everywhere has their own sins with which they struggle. Got it. (Heck, I made the very point above.) The difference is the rest of us don’t spend our time trying to convince everyone it’s really ok and should be embraced instead of turned away from. If you are honest, you will admit that your metaphysics is essentially hedonism: I’ll do what I want because it feels good and nobody should be able to tell me otherwise. You should also be intellectually rigorous, however, and admit that philosophy has absolutely no barriers that would allow it to coexist with a healthy society.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:58 AM

Derbyshire was right last year and Kincaid is right this year.

That Shaw and Green are faux-conservatives is no surprise to anyone here at Hot Gas (and that is not something to embrace, Shaw, because that’s what you are blowing). People try to make a lot of teh fact that a majority self identify as conservatives, but had that been a fact, Obama would not be in the White House.

Manning is where he is mainly because of his homosexuality. That came out not long after he was arrested. If you want to think that a blatantly immoral individual can be a conservative, you are fooling yourself. The country is where it is because the population has become immoral, indeed, depraved and what they tolerate shows that.

The only thing disgusting here is that Shaw and Green claim to be conservatives when what they push is not just unconservative, but actually anti-conservative.

Quartermaster on March 16, 2013 at 9:58 AM

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:58 AM

Heh. I always did love fish sticks.

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:58 AM

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

There are a number of Americans nowadays who seem to believe that “Freedom” is merely a personal thing, a state which is unaffected by any unethical, immoral, or irresponsible actions committed by those around them, including family, friends, or strangers. They, in turn, seem oblivious of their responsibility to other Americans, as we all attempt to protect and nurture this fragile thing we call “Freedom”.

Our Legacy of Freedom, bequeathed to us as American citizens, is not just the blessing of being a free people, but, the responsibility that goes with it, as my Daddy, who landed at Normandy on June 6, 1944, knew all too well…

a responsibility to our family, our friends, our fellow citizens, and the Author of Our Freedom as Americans, Our Creator.

A responsibility that is our charge to keep.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:59 AM

Reading these comments leads me to believe social cons are killing this country. There’s some weird belief that prior to 1950 there were no immoral acts. That people loved God and country and everyone went to church on Sunday.

Nothing has changed other than technology. Gay people have been around for centuries. The difference is that the technology didn’t exist for it to be thrown in your face 24/7. Prior to television and radio your world was the town you were living in. The news outside of that town was read in a newspaper that would report happenings from days and weeks prior as “news”.

To think that all of a sudden our nation is crumbling due to gays or moral degeneration is silly in my opinion. Everything works it’s cycle. The pendulum swings one way, then another. A lot of what we’re seeing against religion is a generation that was raised with the “moral majority” being a bunch of hypocrites. We had televangelists stealing, committing adultery and flat out being anything but Christian in nature. When those things were so often reported in the televangelist heydays of the 80′s and 90′s, you’re going to get some backlash. We’re living through that right now.

And I’m not saying you have to embrace homosexuality or anything else you deem immoral. What conservatives need to stop doing is painting those people as “the enemy”. People may be misguided, but they’re not the enemy. Kill em with kindness.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

Ehemmmm…

I had no idea school districts were teaching sex education in grammar schools in the 1950′s.

That used to be the province of parenting in the home…not the state in public school.

“Chicago Public Schools is considering a new proposal that would begin teaching sexual education in kindergarten.

MyFoxChicago.com reports that the district’s proposal follows “national sexuality education standards” and addresses sexual orientation and bullying for the first time.

Under the proposed policy, younger students will learn about appropriate and inappropriate touching and feelings, according to a district news release. Students in fourth grade will learn about puberty and the HIV virus.

Instruction for children in fifth grade and above will focus on reproduction, contraception, and the transmission and prevention of HIV/AIDS, among other topics, the news releases states.”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/28/chicago-public-schools-to-start-teaching-sex-ed-in-kindergarten/#ixzz2Ni9QbBcS

workingclass artist on March 16, 2013 at 10:01 AM

Really getting tired of the ghey. The whole movement is nothing but a fundraising effort on the part of the left. They care as much about gays and gay marriage as they do about the poor and racism. (Though you have to wonder why it’s okay to punish the 3% with a 39.6% tax rate, but not the 3% with civil unions as opposed to traditional marriage. We are supposedly talking about equality, right?)

I’m pretty much to the point where we just drop out of the gay marriage battle. At least then we can go back to the 3% having a proportionate share of the microphone.

BKeyser on March 16, 2013 at 10:01 AM

What conservatives need to stop doing is painting those people as “the enemy”.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

I’m not painting anyone as the enemy, except those who are pushing this agenda day and night.

Lizzy on March 16, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Amen. And, of course, all of the blather about hispanic or black or whatnot votes, too. It’s pandering, and it’s not conservative.

Cleombrotus on March 16, 2013 at 9:57 AM

Thank you for the reminder about Sullivan’s Law. And well put.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 10:08 AM

This issue is really hurting younger voters. More and more of them are being seduced into destructive lifestyles — embracing homosexual behavior is in some sense just a gateway.
I may be atheist, but even I can see that the great religions had their roots in rebuilding society after this kind of crap destroyed it.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 9:51 AM

Thank you. It really is. What’s at stake here is the foundation of society, which if liberals are allowed to destroy will leave youth utterly adrift. Marriage is just about the last sacred bastion in a sea of cultural sewage.

You don’t have to go to church or believe in God to realize that trying to pull morals out of a hat is liberal foolishness and that it inevitably leads to destruction.

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:56 AM

The perpetual libertine adolescent culture is pushing an agenda that results in continual mayhem and this hurts our young.

workingclass artist on March 16, 2013 at 10:09 AM

I’m pretty much to the point where we just drop out of the gay marriage battle. At least then we can go back to the 3% having a proportionate share of the microphone.

BKeyser on March 16, 2013 at 10:01 AM

Won’t happen. They get this toe-hold, and they will move on to demanding that you personally reaffirm their lifestyle, or face criminal charges.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Let’s all get a grip.

That’s putting it mildly…

Kincaid’s article is abhorable…at best. Steve Green is spot-on to confirm that. The Left has some fresh and explosive ammunition handed to ‘em on a silver platter, and they don’t have to twist or tweak a single word of it.

JetBoy on March 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM

I think some conservatives have this goal of a Christian utopia on Earth borne through legislation and bedroom government.

Get it through your heads – it can’t be done. Read your book and you will see the fallacy of thinking you or the government can take the role of Hay-Seuss.

Reading these comments leads me to believe social cons are killing this country. There’s some weird belief that prior to 1950 there were no immoral acts. That people loved God and country and everyone went to church on Sunday.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

Bingo. That place was a farce and only existed in their imaginations. Oh, and young people will never vote R in large numbers if they think it stands for R-hateful jerkwad.

antisense on March 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Al-Gayda out in force yet again. Always there to try to deride the voice of reason.

BigAnge on March 16, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Who’s pushing all this gay stuff everywhere, 24/7.? I know it’s not me. It’s not conservatives. Then politically correct Republicans are outraged when conservatives get annoyed at the endless plight-of-the-gays martyrs popping up incessantly.

Some Republicans just can’t reject the irrational guilt of the liberal PC culture.

Dongemaharu on March 16, 2013 at 10:14 AM

Is anyone other than HuffPo live-blogging CPAC?

Jaibones on March 16, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Where is the CPAC thread?

Scott Walker, Gingrich, Bachmann and Dr. Ben Carson have already spoken … What’s up?

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Alienate one of the biggest blocks of voters the GOP has in exchange for 1 percent of less than 2 percent of the population.

Smart power!

By and large gays are liberal on every other issue over and above the ridiculous ones you argue about here. Go ahead and cave on the sanctity of marriage. Lower the age of concent. Force the BSA to accept gay Scout Leaders. Destroy every church in the US in the process and you will not win a single election over it.

They are still pro-choice, anti-military and very liberal.

hawkdriver on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

So let’s say you are an incorrigible homosexual who genuinely leans toward smaller government, strong military, lower taxes and straight-up laissez-faire economics.

Do you:

A) Urge the Democratic Party, who already accept and celebrate your homosexuality, to adopt these policy agenda items and bring them in line with the conservatives for the economic health of the country?

B) Crash CPAC, where you find agreement with this economic agenda, and you demand acceptance of your homosexual activism?

You choose B, because it’s easier to align with the left, who never stops fighting the right, and you can dismiss the h8oRz by using the bogus claims of bigotry and intolerance.

And even if there is no welcome mat waiting for these mythical Friedman-disciple homosexuals at CPAC, look at the division the mere suggestion has brought about. Bam, the resolution of the issue doesn’t matter. It doesn’t freaking matter.

The damage is done, the left wins.

Greek Fire on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:59 AM

What so many don’t seem to comprehend, kingsjester, is the role Natural Law plays in this. They don’t see that it’s Natural Law that defines a certain minimal level of morality, and gives us our freedoms (hence, being endowed by our Creator with them). They both spring from the same source, so they can’t truly be separated. You said it well.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM

hawkdriver on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Right on. Right on.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM

Thank you!

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 10:21 AM

MelonCollie on March 16, 2013 at 9:49 AM

I think his statement has been more rational than most I’ve read so far. Broken clock, twice a day, etc.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 10:22 AM

Kincaid’s article is abhorable

JetBoy on March 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Yeah, it’s…wait, it’s what? Shenanigans!

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 10:24 AM

To the point of the post: arguments of exactly what it means to be “conservative” aside (I lean toward “classical liberal” myself), one can lead a homosexual lifestyle and be conservative, but one cannot be a “gay activist” (which invariably means you argue for big-government promotion of homosexuality) and conservative. At this point, “liberal” is practically defined by agitating for some kind of government hand-out or promotion of some kind of balkanized identity group.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 10:26 AM

I think some conservatives have this goal of a Christian utopia on Earth borne through legislation and bedroom government.

Get it through your heads – it can’t be done. Read your book and you will see the fallacy of thinking you or the government can take the role of Hay-Seuss.
antisense on March 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM

The Government is already in the bedroom…and the kitchen…and the living room…and the schools…next the churches (with state approved sermons).

Perhaps people such as yourself might realize that adjusting principle to achieve the fleeting illusion of popularity is a fallacy.

workingclass artist on March 16, 2013 at 10:26 AM

To see the farce of this whole gay rights thing, go to Twitchy and see just how little support Senator Portman gets from the pro-gay Left. None of the matter is about equal rights, to the militants of that side. It’s about using a different issue to smash political opposition to liberalism. Obama was praised for his ‘evolution’ but Portman will still be a pariah. What a difference an ‘R’ makes.

Liam on March 16, 2013 at 10:28 AM

through legislation and bedroom government.

antisense on March 16, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Got to hand it to you. You’re good at the talking point. Ever had a thought of your own???

CW on March 16, 2013 at 10:34 AM

The final day of CPAC …

Gov. Scott Walker, Gingrich, Michele Bachmann and Dr. Ben Carson

——————————————————–

​- 12:00 p.m. ​- Governor Sarah Palin
- 12:20 p.m. – Phyllis Schlafly – Founder, Eagle Forum
​- 2:30 p.m.​ – Mayor Mia Love
- ​4:40 p.m. ​ – Ann Coulter
​- 5:10 p.m. ​ – Senator Ted Cruz

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 10:35 AM

What so many don’t seem to comprehend, kingsjester, is the role Natural Law plays in this. They don’t see that it’s Natural Law that defines a certain minimal level of morality, and gives us our freedoms (hence, being endowed by our Creator with them). They both spring from the same source, so they can’t truly be separated. You said it well.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 10:19 AM

It’s a rare instance when I’m truly at a loss for words. This is one of those times.

JetBoy on March 16, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Do you:

A) Urge the Democratic Party, who already accept and celebrate your homosexuality, to adopt these policy agenda items and bring them in line with the conservatives for the economic health of the country?

B) Crash CPAC, where you find agreement with this economic agenda, and you demand acceptance of your homosexual activism?

You choose B, because it’s easier to align with the left, who never stops fighting the right, and you can dismiss the h8oRz by using the bogus claims of bigotry and intolerance.
Greek Fire on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Exactly.

Dongemaharu on March 16, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 10:35 AM

In other words, a day with actual conservatives speaking.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 10:40 AM

It’s a rare instance when I’m truly at a loss for words. This is one of those times.

JetBoy on March 16, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Why? Do you reject the premise of Natural Law? Do you truly believe that all good law is only arrived at through mutual consent of all involved? That hasn’t been the basis for law anywhere in the world, ever.

And, it really shouldn’t be – because then your precious freedoms are nothing more than an agreement from your neighbors, not something that you hold inherently and unalienable. And, they can be taken away the moment a majority believes they should be.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 10:41 AM

Greek Fire on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Exactly.

Dongemaharu on March 16, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Seconded

hawkdriver on March 16, 2013 at 10:41 AM

Greek Fire on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Right on. Right on.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Gays in general support the Democratic party all the while cutting of their noses to spite their faces. As the debt and government intrusiveness grows they simply keep quiet. Say do you think Obamacare will lead to far more government in our lives than anything the right can do ? Yet you rode that train. Now enjoy it.

CW on March 16, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 10:35 AM

In other words, a day with actual conservatives speaking.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 10:40 AM

How great would it be to be there live to hear them. Great to see you MC. Hope you and the wife are well.

Off to explore Seattle.

hawkdriver on March 16, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Why is this article not showing up in FeedDemon?

Charm on March 16, 2013 at 10:45 AM

It’s not a conservative thing to denigrate gays.

Hawkdriver goes right to “age of consent” and wants to bring pedophilia into this. Honestly, I think you people sound ridiculous. You are not the kind of people I want representing the Republican Party. The old-fashioned “gays are icky” immaturity just gives Republicans a bad name. Thankfully that crap is getting phased out.

Republicans should be party that doesn’t care what race or sexual orientation you are. I don’t like all the judgements on others’ private lives. Keep it out of politics.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 10:46 AM

As to the attack on religion through that avenue, it behooves those of us who are Christian to reply “Duh. All of us are ‘born that way’. It’s called original sin. That doesn’t excuse the behavior at all.”

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 9:20 AM

It behooves those of us who are rationalists to place “original sin” in the same mythological category as Pandora’s Box and Ooga Booga.

Xians are welcome to their beliefs, but a nation of secular laws is not bound to discriminate against certain of its citizens based on religous dogma.

chumpThreads on March 16, 2013 at 10:49 AM

“Gay Conservative” isn’t a fictional term

….ahh!…you saw there was a thread that went a good 12 hours yesterday…so…you thought you would start early?

KOOLAID2 on March 16, 2013 at 10:49 AM

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 10:46 AM

You mean the way your judge Sarah Palin?

Sanctimonious Hypocrite.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 10:50 AM

It behooves those of us who are rationalists
chumpThreads on March 16, 2013 at 10:49 AM

Now that there, is funny.
Rational people don’t support socialism, chump.

Count to 10 on March 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM

chumpTesticles on March 16, 2013 at 10:49 AM

…and testie will be here all day…chewing on his chump…again!…turdfreeorpee should be up shortly…spreading his sperm…

KOOLAID2 on March 16, 2013 at 10:52 AM

Republicans should be party that doesn’t care what race or sexual orientation you are. I don’t like all the judgements on others’ private lives. Keep it out of politics.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 10:46 AM

It’s only the homosexual activists that keep bringing up sexual orientation. But, the really funny part is you rehashing that tired cliche about judgments. You really don’t believe that almost all law is based in morality? Or is it just that Christians and other devoutly religious folk should leave their principles at the door, while you, with your totally reason-based principles don’t have to? Sorry, but you’re deluding yourself. You’re not nearly as reasonable as you think you are.

GWB on March 16, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Governor Palin #1 TV Pundit on Mediaite’s Power Grid …

http://conservatives4palin.com/2013/03/gov-palin-1-tv-pundit-on-mediaites-power-grid-devito.html

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 10:54 AM

There are a number of Americans nowadays who seem to believe that “Freedom” is merely a personal thing, a state which is unaffected by any unethical, immoral, or irresponsible actions committed by those around them, including family, friends, or strangers. They, in turn, seem oblivious of their responsibility to other Americans, as we all attempt to protect and nurture this fragile thing we call “Freedom”.
Our Legacy of Freedom, bequeathed to us as American citizens, is not just the blessing of being a free people, but, the responsibility that goes with it, as my Daddy, who landed at Normandy on June 6, 1944, knew all too well…
a responsibility to our family, our friends, our fellow citizens, and the Author of Our Freedom as Americans, Our Creator.
A responsibility that is our charge to keep.
kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 9:59 AM

What a bunch of pretentious hooey. What does that have to do with the price of beans?

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM

Reading these comments leads me to believe social cons are killing this country. There’s some weird belief that prior to 1950 there were no immoral acts. That people loved God and country and everyone went to church on Sunday.

ButterflyDragon on March 16, 2013 at 9:42 AM

It’s not the existence of homosexuals that is a problem. They have been around a very long time. For that matter, neither is tolerance of homosexuality a real problem.

What is a problem is the attempt to put homosexuality at the same level as normal human behavior. This is the new and fundamentally unconservative philosophy that leads to attempts to mainstream such absurdities as same sex marriage.

Are there “gay conservatives?” I’m sure there are. But if they’re pushing the homosexual agenda and trying to use the government to force societal change, then they’re not conservative at all.

Frankly, it’s a lot like asking if there are women conservatives. Of course there are, but radical feminism is not conservative.

Now, the media can’t make that distinction, which is why they always think a woman who is a conservative or an African American who is conservative or a homosexual who is a conservative is somehow betraying his or her gender/race/sexual orientation. But conservatism is about a particular philosophy, not identity politics.

There Goes The Neighborhood on March 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Xians are welcome to their beliefs, but a nation of secular laws is not bound to discriminate against certain of its citizens based on religous dogma.

chumpThreads on March 16, 2013 at 10:49 AM

Like you are doing, sanctimonious hypocrite?

Boys and girls, feel free to laugh at this example of irony.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Young voters are doing exactly what their overlords are training them to do. From kindergarten through college, the Marxist, statists, and humanists are pumping them full of moral relativism. If you don’t want your kids to turn into Bradley Manning or Jazz Shaw, get them out of the public school system!!!

kpguru on March 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Where is the CPAC thread?

Scott Walker, Gingrich, Bachmann and Dr. Ben Carson have already spoken … What’s up?

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 10:18 AM

Probably this:
CPAC Panel on Race Goes Off the Rails

chumpThreads on March 16, 2013 at 10:57 AM

hawkdriver on March 16, 2013 at 10:43 AM

Same to you, bud.

MadisonConservative on March 16, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Republicans should be party that doesn’t care what race or sexual orientation you are. I don’t like all the judgements on others’ private lives. Keep it out of politics.

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 10:46 AM

who are you to say what the republican party should, and should not be???? isn’t enough for you that YOUR party bascially accepts any goddamn thing that comes down the pike? you just cannot handle another viewpoint. and you whine about being judged like your being physically stoned or something. do you have a spine? do you have any self respect about yourself? are you your own person? YOU ARE NOT. you are just another assembly line clone of your party.

GhoulAid on March 16, 2013 at 10:59 AM

Probably this:
CPAC Panel on Race Goes Off the Rails

chumpThreads on March 16, 2013 at 10:57 AM

What has that got to do with the fact that Hot Air has decided not to cover CPAC today?

Pork-Chop on March 16, 2013 at 11:00 AM

What a bunch of pretentious hooey. What does that have to do with the price of beans?

bluegill on March 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM

So says the hypocrite.

kingsjester on March 16, 2013 at 11:00 AM

chumpThreads on March 16, 2013 at 10:49 AM

You just reek of tolerance.
/

Now, the media can’t make that distinction, which is why they always think a woman who is a conservative or an African American who is conservative or a homosexual who is a conservative is somehow betraying his or her gender/race/sexual orientation. But conservatism is about a particular philosophy, not identity politics.

There Goes The Neighborhood on March 16, 2013 at 10:56 AM

This is simply bullying. That is all. It works well with low info types like chump and its ilk.

CW on March 16, 2013 at 11:00 AM

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