Smoke watch: Day 2, morning; Update: Not yet

posted at 5:31 am on March 13, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

(VATICAN CITY) Rome awoke to a cold, gray, and wet morning today as the cardinals began their first full day in the papal conclave.  The weather seems to have reduced the turnout, as a much smaller crowd than last night gathers for the signal from the morning vote.  Of course, this is a work and school day in Rome, and the turnout will be much larger for the evening signal — if in fact we don’t get white smoke at some time this morning.

Earlier, an Italian journalist interviewed me for a radio show and asked me for my prediction on both the timing and result of the conclave.  I get the feeling that this will take a little longer than usual, although I’m in the minority here in the media center and in Rome.  She asked me whether I think an American Pope will emerge, but I remain skeptical, even with the friendly press reception both Timothy Dolan and Sean O’Malley have received in Italy.  She remarked that Dolan and O’Malley have also given the Italian media a friendly reception — something to keep in mind, if the other cardinals have seen that as a form of campaigning.  That would make me even more skeptical that an American Pope will emerge.

Today’s briefing will take place from our media center rather than La Sala Stampa’s office, but I won’t get video of it, because they are already warning us (3 hours prior) that we’d better stay in our seats and not clog up the floor.  Vatican TV will televise it live, of course, and the images aren’t terribly exciting, but it will be fun for those of us who have settled into this location as our home base.

Currently, it’s 10:30 am in Rome, and the smoke could appear any time in the next two hours.  If we get a signal, I’ll write up a separate post in the Green Room for black smoke, and here on the front page for white smoke.

Update: We’re a little past halfway in the morning session, and nothing yet.  The crowd is growing in the square, despite the weather.  It’s still not anywhere near the size of last night, but the rain isn’t dampening spirits here.

Update II: As I posted in the GR, black smoke — and so we go on.


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Ciao Ed!

A little espresso this am?

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 5:58 AM

Good Morning ED,CMS:)

Video: Watch live: Sistine Chapel smoke cam

http://www.breakingnews.com/

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:07 AM

Nice to see you up before the sun goes down Ed

DarkCurrent on March 13, 2013 at 6:07 AM

I’d be very surprised if we have an American pope, although O’Malley is an intriguing possibility.

Mr. D on March 13, 2013 at 6:08 AM

CMSinAZ:)

Dutch Terror Alert!!

Dutch government raises terror threat level from limited to substantial – @AP

13 mins ago by editor
==========================

http://www.breakingnews.com/

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:09 AM

Last Terror Alert thingy,
since its not,ahem,thread re-
lated!

Hmmmmmm…………..

More: Dutch government cites the threat posed by jihad fighters returning from Syria and signs of increasing radicalization among Dutch youth – @AP

2 mins ago by editor

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:16 AM

The Associated Press ‏@AP

Vatican interns from Villanova get front-row seat to historic resignation of pope, conclave: http://apne.ws/ZIV4je – VW
================================================================

By KATHY MATHESON
— Mar. 13 2:47 AM EDT

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/villanovas-vatican-interns-get-view-history

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:23 AM

Morning Canopfor
:)

The Dutch? Yowser

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 6:25 AM

Rain means good luck right?

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 6:26 AM

Morning Canopfor
:)

The Dutch? Yowser

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 6:25 AM

cmsinaz:Rain,eh,hmmmmm….,ya gots me:)

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:30 AM

BBC News (UK) ‏@BBCNews

Papal #conclave resumes in Vatican http://bbc.in/16rbRuj Twitter list of BBC staff reporting from Rome here: http://bbc.in/16rbRuh

https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/papal-conclave#TWEET659837

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:42 AM

************************* ALERT *******************************

Black/Grey Smoke!!!!!!!!

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:43 AM

***************** Alert ************************

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking

#Blacksmoke: Papal conclave still undecided on new pope http://bbc.in/X62uJp

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:43 AM

****Alert *****

No pope chosen in latest round of voting as black smoke billows from chimney above Sistine Chapel – live video

2 mins ago from http://www.breakingnews.com by editor

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:45 AM

Results for #Blacksmoke

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Blacksmoke&src=hash

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:49 AM

How many days does this process take typically?

tom daschle concerned on March 13, 2013 at 6:56 AM

A little more prayer and discernment it seems

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 6:57 AM

A little more prayer and discernment it seems

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 6:57 AM

cmsinaz:Yup,next shot,er ahem,vote is in seven hours!:)

And,a tweet from Donna Brazile,,,,,,oy!
=======================================================

Luz Pena ‏@Luzpenatv

Black Smoke at the Vatican. No Pope yet. Cardinals will vote in 7 hours again. #Pope #BlackSmoke
==============================

Donna Brazile ‏@donnabrazile

@CNNLive confirms it was #Blacksmoke not fifty shades of ….

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Blacksmoke&src=hash

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:04 AM

Good Morning Ed-

Enjoyed getting your smoke report live this morning on the radio.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:06 AM

7 hours?
Wow

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 7:08 AM

Earlier, an Italian journalist interviewed me for a radio show and asked me for my prediction on both the timing and result of the conclave. I get the feeling that this will take a little longer than usual, although I’m in the minority here in the media center and in Rome.

So then you think that this search will go beyond the proclaimed frontrunners of Scola and Scherer, perhaps to Ouelette or even some other currently less media-scrutinized Cardinal?

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 7:09 AM

Ouelette

Excuse me, Ouellet

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 7:11 AM

She asked me whether I think an American Pope will emerge, but I remain skeptical, even with the friendly press reception both Timothy Dolan and Sean O’Malley have received in Italy.

If it is a North American, I’d put better odds on the Canadian.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:11 AM

“A person is disposed to an act of choice by an angel … in two ways: Sometimes, a man’s understanding is enlightened by an angel to know what is good, but it is not instructed as to the reason why … But sometimes he is instructed by angelic illumination, both that this act is good and as to the reason why it is good.”

“Ad majorem Dei gloriam inque hominum salutem”

Marcus Traianus on March 13, 2013 at 7:12 AM

How many days does this process take typically?

tom daschle concerned on March 13, 2013 at 6:56 AM

tom daschel concerned:Good question:)
=====================================

Papal elections
Choosing a Pope: A closer look behind the smoke

ROME — The Globe and Mail

Published Sunday, Mar. 10 2013, 9:13 PM EDT
Last updated Tuesday, Mar. 12 2013, 10:04 AM EDT
************************************************

How long will this conclave last?

Since the Second World War, conclaves have lasted two to four days, with three to eight ballots in each conclave. Because there is no obvious front-runner, Vatican watchers think the 2013 edition will grind on for at least three days, maybe four, with many rounds of voting before the white smoke emerges from the Sistine Chapel.
===============

What is the voting routine?

The first ballot starts at 4:45 p.m., Rome time, on Tuesday. Assuming a winner is not declared – no cardinal in recent centuries has won on the first ballot – voting will take place each of the subsequent days, starting 9:30 a.m. and again 4:50 p.m. When the identity of the new pope is known to the cardinals, he takes his oath, is fitted with his new wardrobe from the clerical tailor Gammarelli of Rome (which has made vestments in small, medium and large to accommodate the full range of potential body sizes) and chooses his papal name. He then will make his way to the St. Peter’s Basilica balcony that faces the square, after which he will greet the crowd after the lead cardinal announces: “Habemus papum” (We have a pope). That whole process will take about 45 minutes.
(More…)
=========

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/choosing-a-pope-a-closer-look-behind-the-smoke/article9582410/

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:13 AM

I knew it was 5 O’clock…somewhere..

Electrongod on March 13, 2013 at 7:16 AM

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:13 AM

I gotta say that the media coverage is somewhat hysterical this morning. The second ballot didn’t produce a Pope and from the media reports you’d have to surmise that the conclave is beset in partisan gridlock between the traditionalists and reformers.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:17 AM

…all smoke….no mirrors?

KOOLAID2 on March 13, 2013 at 7:18 AM

I gotta say that the media coverage is somewhat hysterical this morning. The second ballot didn’t produce a Pope and from the media reports you’d have to surmise that the conclave is beset in partisan gridlock between the traditionalists and reformers.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:17 AM

…have Reid and Pelosi been accounted for?

KOOLAID2 on March 13, 2013 at 7:20 AM

*clink *eg

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 7:20 AM

************************* ALERT *******************************

Black/Grey Smoke!!!!!!!!

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:43 AM

We have a burn ban here..
Inversion..
Luckily the Vatican isn’t in Southern Idaho.

Electrongod on March 13, 2013 at 7:21 AM

cmsinaz on March 13, 2013 at 7:20 AM

*clink*

Electrongod on March 13, 2013 at 7:21 AM

…all smoke….no mirrors?

KOOLAID2 on March 13, 2013 at 7:18 AM

Obama gave up smoking for mirrors..

Oh..wrong subject..

Electrongod on March 13, 2013 at 7:22 AM

Espresso and grappa: breakfast, lunch and mid-afternoon snack of champions Italy.

ajacksonian on March 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM

…have Reid and Pelosi been accounted for?

KOOLAID2 on March 13, 2013 at 7:20 AM

No but Ed will have to keep a sharp lookout in St. Peter’s Square. If he sees Pelosi holding a giant gavel leading a group of Cardinals in to vote for the Pope, you’ll know we’re close to seeing white smoke. ;0

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:24 AM

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:13 AM

I gotta say that the media coverage is somewhat hysterical this morning. The second ballot didn’t produce a Pope and from the media reports you’d have to surmise that the conclave is beset in partisan gridlock between the traditionalists and reformers.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:17 AM

Happy Nomad:Lol,*GridLock*:)

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:26 AM

The Michigan radio,I`m listening to,
is having a riot,they just did a Trump
firing the Pope-Prentice,and is the…

…smoke,Environmental Friendly….Lol!!!

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:28 AM

************************* ALERT *******************************

Black/Grey Smoke!!!!!!!!

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 6:43 AM

We have a burn ban here..
Inversion..
Luckily the Vatican isn’t in Southern Idaho.

Electrongod on March 13, 2013 at 7:21 AM

Electrongod:Lol,where theres smoke,theres fire:)

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:30 AM

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:13 AM

I gotta say that the media coverage is somewhat hysterical this morning. The second ballot didn’t produce a Pope and from the media reports

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:17 AM

Happy Nomad:Here ya go:)
=======================

hirstmike Michael Hirst 2 mins
After each billow of smoke, hacks herd back into media centre next to St Peter’s Sq to file #conclave copy. pic.twitter.com/cUOieiuxkJ
===================================================================

https://twitter.com/hirstmike/status/311800894532501506/photo/1

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:33 AM

…smoke,Environmental Friendly….Lol!!!

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:28 AM

They don’t call it Holy Smoke without a reason, you know?

And, yes, I do know that the origin of that term is something else predating the Vatican. That is for the historically correct people out there…

ajacksonian on March 13, 2013 at 7:35 AM

So that makes no pope after 3 ballots, right? (1 yesterday, 2 this morning? But only 2 smoke incidents.)

I gotta say that the media coverage is somewhat hysterical this morning. The second ballot didn’t produce a Pope and from the media reports you’d have to surmise that the conclave is beset in partisan gridlock between the traditionalists and reformers.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:17 AM

The LSM is so predictable when it comes to these things that it’s sad:

Tomorrow’s headline, somewhere in the LSM:

“Still no pope after 2nd ballot. Are cardinals hopelessly deadlocked?”

JimLennon on March 12, 2013 at 3:40 PM

“Is the Church ungovernable?”

steebo77 on March 12, 2013 at 4:32 PM

JimLennon on March 13, 2013 at 7:37 AM

Benedict wasn’t chosen until the fourth ballot and that was considered a short conclave.

Illinidiva on March 13, 2013 at 7:45 AM

This is a spiritual exercise guided by faith- something people who are not Catholics struggle to understand- through no fault of their own I might add. It is more a byproduct of elements in our contemporary society who want to promote government over God. It is an endless struggle of malcontents who want people to worship their government above all else and in that endeavor there is no place for a God who offers eternal salvation.

This I believe is the major malaise of our society and truly responsible for our decline. People who lose sight of God cling to worldly things and often see no limits or boundaries for their actions. There is no sin or indulgence impermissible and therefore there is no guilt. Man is seen as God, and the ruler of his domain. It is a philosophy of contra-intellectual conclusions and actions without temperance. It is emotional, not rational and easily witnessed as a common thread across many regressive issues endemic to our modern society.

It is an ugly, empty, misguided life that way of living produces. It is bereft of hope, true love and the promise of eternal salvation. As a result one’s life becomes a fleeting endeavor of humanity, marking existential time and carelessly traipsing across the earth until death. The future is subliminal and ethereal; never having value- even for future generations.

Thus we find the current generation and I pray this Pope will continue to guide his flock, and perhaps new members of the church, towards hope, charity, service and the eternal salvation of our Lord.

Marcus Traianus on March 13, 2013 at 7:52 AM

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:28 AM

They don’t call it Holy Smoke without a reason, you know?

And, yes, I do know that the origin of that term is something else predating the Vatican. That is for the historically correct people out there…

ajacksonian on March 13, 2013 at 7:35 AM

ajacksonian:

Oops,….*Holy Smoke*,dang,I`ll have to flogg myself
over BeSmirchment of dat….(I kid):)

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:52 AM

JimLennon on March 13, 2013 at 7:37 AM

And all this with no clue as to the actual situation. For all they know Scola might have been 5 votes away on the first ballot this morning and 2 away on the second. When in the unknown though, just make crap up. Standard procedure.

And of course if that is the case and habemus papam time comes this afternoon, they’ll immediately 180 pivot from “gridlock” into how this was a “coronation” not an election, and the conservatives in the church have too much of a “stranglehold” on the process.

If you really want to puke, Google some of the papabile Cardinals and read the crap the leftist media is suddenly spewing. Ouellet is getting crap because his brother (not in the Priesthood) did some unpleasant things 30 years ago. Italian police did some anti-Mafia raids in Milan, something that happens three times a week in Italy… Now though it’s “Police Swarm Diocese of Papal Frontrunner.”

Every day I’m reminded why I’ve grown to completely despise the mainstream news media. Self-important destructive Communist agitator slime, the whole lot of them.

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 7:53 AM

This is a spiritual exercise guided by faith- something people who are not Catholics struggle to understand- through no fault of their own I might add.

Marcus Traianus on March 13, 2013 at 7:52 AM

Really? Only Catholics can comprehend a spiritual exercise guided by faith????

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 7:57 AM

2013 papal conclave

A secret Conclave of Cardinals will be held to choose the next pope of the Catholic Church starting on March 12, 2013.

On Feb. 25, 2013, Pope Benedict XVI changed the long-standing rules, allowing the conclave to begin when all eligible cardinal electors are in Rome. Previously, there was a 15-day waiting period between the end of one pontificate and the start of the conclave.
=========

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/2013-papal-conclave

canopfor on March 13, 2013 at 7:59 AM

Really? Only Catholics can comprehend a spiritual exercise guided by faith????

States the person who ignored the entirety, and therefore context of my post.

Furthermore, to be a Catholic means something. It implies a certain type of worship and traditions. The subject of that sentence, which you seem to have missed, focuses directly on the Conclave. To fully understand this event in a spiritual manner, that is minus the alleged intrigue, speculation, supposition and personal projectio, one must be an adherent of the Catholic Church.

Marcus Traianus on March 13, 2013 at 8:07 AM

And all this with no clue as to the actual situation. For all they know Scola might have been 5 votes away on the first ballot this morning and 2 away on the second. When in the unknown though, just make crap up. Standard procedure…….

…..Every day I’m reminded why I’ve grown to completely despise the mainstream news media. Self-important destructive Communist agitator slime, the whole lot of them.

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 7:53 AM

Agree completely. For all the media knows the conclave could have narrowed it down to two cardinals who are even now engaged in rock-paper-scissors to determine the next Pope.

But seriously, in the absence of facts the media just makes stuff up and conflates speculation with fact. And the American media is the worst when it comes to this particular story because they can’t help themselves from bringing up the Vatican Bank, the sex scandals, the leaks, and anything else they can think of to indirectly attack the church. It’s all very back-handed but it is more a part of the narrative than a discussion of this rite. Makes me want to turn off the TV re-watch Shoes of the Fisherman until there is white smoke and something worth watching on the MSM

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 8:13 AM

Does anyone know how long from the time of the white smoke until the appearance or announcement of which elderly white European they select as Pope.

And I can’t recall do they not announce it until he appears on the balcony?

PappyD61 on March 13, 2013 at 8:14 AM

Marcus Traianus on March 13, 2013 at 8:07 AM

What arrogant rot!

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 8:15 AM

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 8:13 AM

Yep. Their “analysis,” when explored proves to be nothing more than a layer of paint over the standard navel-gazing. What isn’t agenda promoting, is the political class happily engaging in their usual horserace nonsense. All supposedly have inside tips that one or the other is surging and others falling, all with no more motive than perpetuating the myth the average clod with an NBC news microphone knows the slightest more than the average clod with a Twitter account. As the old proverb goes: those who talk don’t know; those who know don’t talk.

On top of all this, the American media also desperately and clearly wants to proclaim an “Obama moment,” hoping Turkson is chosen just so they can find another excuse to celebrate their own false idol. Creeps.

Enjoy Shoes of the Fisherman. I’ll probably turn off the TV in favor of some Let’s Plays on Youtube… or better yet, that whole “going to work” thing… guess I ought to do that.

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 8:35 AM

On top of all this, the American media also desperately and clearly wants to proclaim an “Obama moment,” hoping Turkson is chosen just so they can find another excuse to celebrate their own false idol. Creeps.

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 8:35 AM

Turkson is the African socialist, right? How fitting for an Obama moment.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 8:37 AM

Dick Morris just now predicted on Fox that Mitt Romney will be the next pope. Take it to the bank. #325CardinalVotes
— @markzbarabak via web

Karl Rove won’t accept a new Pope until Ohio is counted.

chumpThreads on March 13, 2013 at 8:41 AM

This is a spiritual exercise guided by faith- something people who are not Catholics struggle to understand- through no fault of their own I might add. It is more a byproduct of elements in our contemporary society who want to promote government over God. It is an endless struggle of malcontents who want people to worship their government above all else and in that endeavor there is no place for a God who offers eternal salvation.

This I believe is the major malaise of our society and truly responsible for our decline. People who lose sight of God cling to worldly things and often see no limits or boundaries for their actions. There is no sin or indulgence impermissible and therefore there is no guilt. Man is seen as God, and the ruler of his domain. It is a philosophy of contra-intellectual conclusions and actions without temperance. It is emotional, not rational and easily witnessed as a common thread across many regressive issues endemic to our modern society.

It is an ugly, empty, misguided life that way of living produces. It is bereft of hope, true love and the promise of eternal salvation. As a result one’s life becomes a fleeting endeavor of humanity, marking existential time and carelessly traipsing across the earth until death. The future is subliminal and ethereal; never having value- even for future generations.

Thus we find the current generation and I pray this Pope will continue to guide his flock, and perhaps new members of the church, towards hope, charity, service and the eternal salvation of our Lord.

Marcus Traianus on March 13, 2013 at 7:52 AM

“The opiate of the masses.”

chumpThreads on March 13, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Turkson is the African socialist, right? How fitting for an Obama moment.

Happy Nomad on March 13, 2013 at 8:37 AM

Don’t know if his views are socialist, or even all that more “progressive” than many of the other potential candidates. Doubt the media knows or cares either. For them it’s all about race, nothing more. They get off on declaring historical firsts for every protected class, and inserting their king into every situation everywhere. Of course Barky himself is ever willing to oblige on that latter part. I wonder if he’ll find a way to honor the new Pope with a photo of himself…

Gingotts on March 13, 2013 at 8:50 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Pragmatic on March 13, 2013 at 9:10 AM

As a former member of the Church/of the Archdiocese of Chicago, I won’t mind Cardinal George getting the nod.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 13, 2013 at 9:16 AM

Can’t they just get close to electing a new Pope and then deem and pass?

Fallon on March 13, 2013 at 9:19 AM

Who are the ones to root for here?

In practical terms, who would do the most good? How do we even know?

I have to plead ignorance to this situation. But I am intrigued and am following it.

bluegill on March 13, 2013 at 9:19 AM

Who are the ones to root for here?

In practical terms, who would do the most good? How do we even know?

I have to plead ignorance to this situation. But I am intrigued and am following it.

bluegill on March 13, 2013 at 9:19 AM

Cardinal Dolan because he is JPII on steroids. Also, he is Obama’s main nemesis in the HHS birth control mandate battle so it would likely make Obama’s head go ‘xplode-y.

In reality, Dolan isn’t going to happen because he is American. The main battle is between the Vatican insiders and the reformers. I’m betting on Oullet, the French Canadian guy, as the compromise candidate.

Illinidiva on March 13, 2013 at 9:32 AM

Dear Ed,

If you get another question about an American Pope, please throw out the name Raymond Cardinal Burke, and the fact that many orthodox Catholic sites over here are pulling for him, if for no other reason than to guage the response.

I’d be interested to know what the media over there knows of him and if their heads are as likely to explode as our media heads are, if he were to walk out on that balcony.

Please…

Who are the ones to root for here?

In practical terms, who would do the most good? How do we even know?

I have to plead ignorance to this situation. But I am intrigued and am following it.

bluegill on March 13, 2013 at 9:19 AM

It depends on your perspective and what you consider the most good. From mine, as a faithful orthodox Catholic, Raymond Cardinal Burke would be my choice. He’s the only one who actually states the importance of Canon Law, for one thing, stating that Canon 915 must be exercised against Catholic politicians who promote heresy, ie deny Communion to those who vote for abortion, SSM, etc… Leftist Catholics in America hate him. He isn’t seen as a ‘peacemaker’, but they seem to forget that Jesus said, “I did not come to bring peace, but the sword.” Raymond Cardinal Burke could be seen as a sword bearer by some. But he weilds it with such peaceful resolve. :)

A just man, bold as a lion, shall be without dread. Raymond Cardinal Burke’s middle name happens to be Leo, coincidentally. Maybe he’d take the name Pope Leo XIV. I’d take that as a good sign, since Leo XIII wrote clearly against the evils of Socialism among other things facing us today.

My 2 cents and hope!

pannw on March 13, 2013 at 9:48 AM

pannw on March 13, 2013 at 9:48 AM

To be clear, he’s the only one who does that to my knowledge. I’m admittedly ignorant on the majority of foriegn Cardinals. I’m speaking as an American on the American Cardinals. None of the others have shown any indication that they will do a darn thing about the heretics in office, as must be apparent to anyone.

pannw on March 13, 2013 at 9:51 AM