Trending: Sin tax proposals on guns and ammunition

posted at 1:06 pm on March 11, 2013 by Erika Johnsen

The idea behind sin taxes is nothing new; they have long been a favored method for lawmakers looking to raise revenue on the backs of behaviors that they oh-so-munificently deem to be vices — alcohol, tobacco, and gambling have been longtime targets and proposals for taxing junk food are the newest hotness — and subsequently trying to direct that revenue toward their preferred programs. In this fiscally wanton age of red ink, moving to deter people from specific behaviors or at least forcing them to pay a higher price only seems to be gaining in legislative popularity — despite their reliably ineffective, regressive, and special-interests-fueled results.

Responding to the latest round of public budget “crises,” policymakers around the country have begun reviving an old, but not necessarily good idea with added enthusiasm—taxing “sin.” What better way to raise revenue than to find something that your neighbor buys or an activity he engages in that you don’t like and tax it? …

In addition to being robust revenue-raisers, the orthodox justification for sin taxes was that they would reduce the costs smokers, drinkers, and gamblers impose on others—drunk driving, exposure to secondhand tobacco smoke, and losing the family paycheck at the craps table. …

Nowadays, however, sin tax proponents have shifted gears by arguing that taxation is mainly aimed at compensating society for the drains sinners impose on the public healthcare budget and reducing the harm consumers do to themselves. With this new push, the limits of what defines a sin steadily are being expanded.

And so, of course, you knew this was coming: The latest item/behavior that progressives perceive as a societal vice? Firearms, obviously. Fox News reports that, as a part of the recent wave of gun-control proposals, legislators at both the federal and state level have been floating ideas for sin taxes on guns and ammunition, claiming that the added revenue will be directed toward mental health services, police training, and/or victims’ treatment.

At the federal level, Rep. Linda Sanchez, D-Calif., proposed a bill that would impose a 10 percent tax on “any concealable” firearm. The revenue would be used to help fund a national gun buyback program. The bill is still in committee.

At the state level in California, Democratic state Rep. Roger Dickinson last month introduced a bill to impose a 5-cent tax on every bullet. …

Massachusetts state Rep. David Linsky is pushing a 25 percent sales tax on ammunition and firearms. Maryland state Rep. Jon Cardin has introduced a bill imposing a 50 percent tax on ammo, and an annual $25 gun registration fee.

And according to the Las Vegas Review Journal, Assembly Majority Leader William Horne is pushing a draft bill that would include a $25 per gun sales tax, in addition to a 2-cent tax for every round of ammunition.

Which is all very interesting, because I’m pretty sure that the legitimate and law-abiding citizens who would largely be paying these taxes, are not the ones responsible for gun violence. Why is it, exactly, that the responsible people who take it upon themselves to bear arms — creating positive externalities in the effort — need to be deterred or punished? I’m with these guys:

But firearms groups say a “sin tax” on firearms wrongly punishes law-abiding gun owners.

“If anything, gun owners ought to be getting a tax rebate for helping reduce crime,” said Lawrence Keane, senior vice president and general counsel for the National Shooting Sports Foundation.


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No problem at all, I assure!

Liam on March 11, 2013 at 2:13 PM

I wonder if Erika messed with my post to stir things up?/
It just got cut off at a very, shall we say interesting point….

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Alternative Headline:

“Purported Champions Of The 99% Argue That Only The 1% Should Be Able To Defend Themselves”

Resist We Much on March 11, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Or:

All Animals Are Equal, But Pigs Can Be Armed.

OhEssYouCowboys on March 11, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Soooo… constitutional rights are now sins.

ghostwalker1 on March 11, 2013 at 2:16 PM

If there is anyone here who already does their own reloading and is looking for a new customer, let me know. I’m definitely interested.

Hawk: if you ever get up and running (hell, or need a partner) I’d be interested in that too.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I’ve started finding out about more people in my area who do reloading. I suspect it will soon be a very large market.

I’ve looked into reloading equipment for myself, but it’s a good $300 to $500 or more just to get started. For the long run, I’m sure it’s worthwhile, especially if you get good at it and can start making money on it.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM

I wonder if Erika messed with my post to stir things up?/
It just got cut off at a very, shall we say interesting point….

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Likely accidental, I imagine. I read your posts here today, and normally do. I know where you stand, and I’m of the same set of mind as you.

Liam on March 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM

Soooo… constitutional rights are now sins.

ghostwalker1 on March 11, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Except abortion, rich college girls demanding free contraceptives, free speech for liberals only, flag burners, cop killers, white folk, Southerners (especially Texans), people who don’t identify as Christian or Jewish, etc.

You know the game…

Liam on March 11, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Do we have any sane governmental representation left in Washington D.C.? It appears there basic philosophy is tax everything and if you don’t like something, then legislate it out of existence. This is no way to run a free Country.

DDay on March 11, 2013 at 2:24 PM

There is a reason why newspapers and magazines are not taxed. And why churches are not taxed.

The reason does not end after the first amendment. Poll taxes are illegal, too.

If there was consistency in the application of this principle the purchase of guns and ammo would not be taxed at all.

Attempts to impose sin taxes on them should be a tax too far.

farsighted on March 11, 2013 at 2:25 PM

I’ve looked into reloading equipment for myself, but it’s a good $300 to $500 or more just to get started. For the long run, I’m sure it’s worthwhile, especially if you get good at it and can start making money on it.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM

That’s kind of where I am. I’m trying to weigh the upfront outlays against the potential returns. I’m trying to decide if I’d be better served stocking money or ammunition.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM

All these silly little ideas from the gun-grabbers reek of desperation, to me. It seems they’re scrambling to find something — anything – to use as a cudgel to score a win for a losing proposition.

Liam on March 11, 2013 at 1:28 PM

They’re not losing.

runawayyyy on March 11, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Seriously, somebody needs to ask these liberals just how making law-abiding gun owners into criminals would have saved just one of the Sandy Hook victims. And the hypocrisy is astounding when Mark Kelly goes through all the steps to legally buy a AR15 and then complains that he was able to legally buy an AR15. You just can’t make this stuff up.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2013 at 2:00 PM

They’ve already admitted that all these new extremist People Control laws wouldn’t have done diddlysquat to stop these massacres – but their bait and switch routine is nothing new.

They use these shootings to push for their extremist People Control laws like the precursor to Universal Gun Confiscation full of the knowledge that the ID of a shooter in these cases is always known- but again, they don’t care – it’s all about 2 steps Forward, and one step back.

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Taxing arms (including bullets) is the equivalent, under the Constitution, of requiring a literacy test or a poll tax in order to vote. It erects a barrier to the exercise of the given right which is judically unsustainable.

unclesmrgol on March 11, 2013 at 1:37 PM

There is more than one law or regulation in effect that should have been judically unsustainable. I have no more trust for the courts than I do for the other two branches of government.

chemman on March 11, 2013 at 2:29 PM

If there is anyone here who already does their own reloading and is looking for a new customer, let me know. I’m definitely interested.

Hawk: if you ever get up and running (hell, or need a partner) I’d be interested in that too.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I’ve started finding out about more people in my area who do reloading. I suspect it will soon be a very large market.

I’ve looked into reloading equipment for myself, but it’s a good $300 to $500 or more just to get started. For the long run, I’m sure it’s worthwhile, especially if you get good at it and can start making money on it.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM

Yeah, me too; buddy of mine and I looking into this very seriously.

Midas on March 11, 2013 at 2:31 PM

My concern about reloading is that they can begin to make it really hard/expensive to get the components, as well, and then where are ya… capture and clean all your spent brass, but without primers, powder and bullets, well…

Midas on March 11, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Meanwhile, the WH is closed to its OWNERS, but taxpayers are paying $181,000 a year to study the effect that cocaine has on the sex lives of Japanese quail.

“The grant information shows the government launched the project with a $181,406 award in January 2010. It added the $175,587 cited by Neumann in 2011 and another $175,211 in February 2012. The study is slated to continue through January 2015.”

If Democrats could only figure out a way to tax those over-sexed, coked up Japanese quail…

Resist We Much on March 11, 2013 at 2:34 PM

O’Malley and the other jackwagons in my home state of Maryland are rubbing their hands together with glee at the thought of all that new revenue!

It might take a year or two, but…IDAHO OR BUST!

NavyMustang on March 11, 2013 at 2:35 PM

They’re not losing.

runawayyyy on March 11, 2013 at 2:28 PM

I disagree. They have never been able to make a case for their side that guns in the hands of the law-abiding have caused wide-spread and massive harm to life and limb of innocent people. The data are in, a long time, that when and where firearms are prevalent among the law-abiding, crime is low.

I can attest to that, by personal anecdote, of where i lived in PA for years. Break-ins of year-round homes was zero, and violent crime except for spousal abuse didn’t happen. There was ONE possible murder in the town in 25 years, and that was never proven far as I know. It might have been death by misadventure.

No, I do not believe they are somehow winning. The introduction of so many silly bills tells me they’re losing so bad they need to get crazy.

Liam on March 11, 2013 at 2:37 PM

I’ve looked into reloading equipment for myself, but it’s a good $300 to $500 or more just to get started. For the long run, I’m sure it’s worthwhile, especially if you get good at it and can start making money on it.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:19 PM

That’s kind of where I am. I’m trying to weigh the upfront outlays against the potential returns. I’m trying to decide if I’d be better served stocking money or ammunition.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Unless you really need to crank them out, a single stage reloader is very very affordable. If you start, look to buying the harder procured items when they’re available rather than, when you need them. Small rfle, larger rifle primers and power are alway hard to keep in stock after the governemnt makes undertones. And once you have them, don’t let the items stay on your shelf for too long. Primers and power store better once they’re actually assembled into a cartridge. It’s better if you use a factory crimping die. If you’re shooting semi-auto it prevents the nose of the bullet bounching against the magazine and seating further than you’ve set it and tends to seal the round against the elements better.

If you’re looking for more info, Bishop is a good one to ask also or email me at hawkcontractor@gmail.com.

Trolls, your crap goes right to spam so don’t bother.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 2:38 PM

crap

rifle and powder

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Resist We Much on March 11, 2013 at 2:34 PM

What? So Dan Quayle is getting paid $181K a year to snort coke and have sex???/

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:39 PM

One more thing. If you’re going to reload, you need to keep track of how many times you’ve shot the larger caliber rounds. It can be hard but the larger rounds can be dangerous if the brass fails in the breech. On my smaller rifle calibers like the .223/5.56 I’ll shoot it until the neck show signs of cracking. The brass can be the biggest savings if carefully reused.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 2:45 PM

What? So Dan Quayle is getting paid $181K a year to snort coke and have sex???/

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 2:39 PM

lol. No, JAPANESE quail!

We’re also spending $27 million on pottery classes…IN MOROCCO!

Resist We Much on March 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM

O’Malley and the other jackwagons in my home state of Maryland are rubbing their hands together with glee at the thought of all that new revenue!

It might take a year or two, but…IDAHO OR BUST!

NavyMustang on March 11, 2013 at 2:35 PM

I wonder if they get a cut of the required liability insurance.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2013 at 2:47 PM

We’re also spending $27 million on pottery classes…IN MOROCCO!

Resist We Much on March 11, 2013 at 2:46 PM

That would fund something like three years worth of White House tours.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2013 at 2:50 PM

I dunno, there are good reasons for requiring voters to be literate.

Akzed on March 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM

There might be, but the Supreme Court has already found such a test to be unconstitutional.

unclesmrgol on March 11, 2013 at 2:54 PM

I may have to learn more about machining.

trigon on March 11, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Unless you really need to crank them out, a single stage reloader is very very affordable. If you start, look to buying the harder procured items when they’re available rather than, when you need them. Small rfle, larger rifle primers and power are alway hard to keep in stock after the governemnt makes undertones. And once you have them, don’t let the items stay on your shelf for too long. Primers and power store better once they’re actually assembled into a cartridge. It’s better if you use a factory crimping die. If you’re shooting semi-auto it prevents the nose of the bullet bounching against the magazine and seating further than you’ve set it and tends to seal the round against the elements better.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Interesting point.

Sorry to be asking some newbie questions but,

Are you talking about a single stage press instead of one with multiple stages?

With that kind of arrangement, do you just put each element in at a time – primer, powder and shell?

How do you measure out the powder each time?

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Are you talking about a single stage press instead of one with multiple stages?

With that kind of arrangement, do you just put each element in at a time – primer, powder and shell?

How do you measure out the powder each time?

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Lots of info at youtube. here is one.

Heck you can get reloading hand tools like a Lee hand press (less than $50.00)if you really don’t want to invest a whole lot into it. Reloading equipment comes up on craigslist pretty often.

tom daschle concerned on March 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

No, I do not believe they are somehow winning. The introduction of so many silly bills tells me they’re losing so bad they need to get crazy.

Liam on March 11, 2013 at 2:37 PM

It’s not the insane politicos I’m worried about. It’s my neighbors who think they’re safer if I’m disarmed. It’s they who give the nutballs in office the power to dictate how I should be allowed to protect myself (or not, as the case may be).

Trust the people if you like. They’ve proven time and time again they can’t be trusted to defend, or even care about, their own liberty.

runawayyyy on March 11, 2013 at 3:25 PM

How about a sin tax on Obama Zod’s Drones? And his and his moocher wife’s multi-million vacations and all his what seems like almost daily golfing? And I mean a sin tax to be paid by the sinner himself.

VorDaj on March 11, 2013 at 3:26 PM

Thinking about reloading?
Start with a reloading manual, e.g. Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Barnes, Lee, etc. they will explain everything.
And only set you back about $30 and will serve as a reference book as you learn the world of reloading.
Oh, and Mark Kelly … he bought a consignment AR-15 at Diamondback in Tucson. Got discovered and is now saying he’ll give it to the Tucson PD. Humm. Now he filled out the 4473 to purchase the rifle. On that form you have to declare that YOU are the true purchaser of the firearm and it is for YOU. If not … then he should be considered a ‘Straw Purchaser’ and that is against the law.
That sort of behavior might get you in deep doo-doo if some prosecutor had a slow week.
But then again, some pigs are more equal than others. Right Mr. Gregory of NBC’s Meet the Press?

Missilengr on March 11, 2013 at 3:43 PM

At a state/local level, I could see using an ammunition tax to raise funds earmarked specifically for school security.

Though I’d rather see teachers be allowed to carry on campus – that’d be much more cost effective, and harder for crazed gunmen to plan for.

hawksruleva on March 11, 2013 at 3:46 PM

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Lots of info at youtube. here is one.

Heck you can get reloading hand tools like a Lee hand press (less than $50.00)if you really don’t want to invest a whole lot into it. Reloading equipment comes up on craigslist pretty often.

tom daschle concerned on March 11, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Thanks!!

I had thought about a more expensive multi stage unit but the cost put the kibosh on that, but his comment on a cheaper version – albeit not as efficient etc – got me to thinking of a better than nothing solution for when the excrement impacts the rotary airflow device.

Of course… having lost all of my ammo and guns in that freak ice fishing accident in the Okefenokee swamp..

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Reloading materials are as hard to find as ammunition. Gunpowder, bullets and primers are nearly non-existent. If one of the three or brass casings can not be found you reload nothing.

trs on March 11, 2013 at 3:50 PM

Wrong. The only thing ” TRENDING ” is the likelyhood of more and more RINOS and Democrats losing their elected positions in 2014.

TX-96 on March 11, 2013 at 3:50 PM

Thinking about reloading?
Start with a reloading manual, e.g. Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Barnes, Lee, etc. they will explain everything.
…..
Missilengr on March 11, 2013 at 3:43 PM

I’ve heard you really need to follow a good manual – or you end up with inconsistent hot or weak loads.
I’m good with the mechanical aspects (Engineering degree), but I wasn’t great at chemistry, and I don’t cook according to recipe measurements (more of a “that looks/smells good attitude”), so I’ve always been concerned about getting it right if there’s measuring and mixing of powder components involved. That’s why so far I’ve been ok with just buying new ammo.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Thinking about reloading?
Start with a reloading manual, e.g. Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Barnes, Lee, etc. they will explain everything.
And only set you back about $30 and will serve as a reference book as you learn the world of reloading.
Oh, and Mark Kelly … he bought a consignment AR-15 at Diamondback in Tucson. Got discovered and is now saying he’ll give it to the Tucson PD. Humm. Now he filled out the 4473 to purchase the rifle. On that form you have to declare that YOU are the true purchaser of the firearm and it is for YOU. If not … then he should be considered a ‘Straw Purchaser’ and that is against the law.
That sort of behavior might get you in deep doo-doo if some prosecutor had a slow week.
But then again, some pigs are more equal than others. Right Mr. Gregory of NBC’s Meet the Press?

Missilengr on March 11, 2013 at 3:43 PM

That’s a good idea, thanks.

As to the thing on Mark Kelly – another good point, that should be considered to be a straw purchase, was he intending to start up a one-man version of Obama’s Guns for Gangsters program?

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Let’s see: let’s impose a tax which will make it too expensive for citizens to practice shooting. Which means (because accurate shooting is a perishable skill) that should one need to defend oneself, one may be a bit more rusty than is optimal.

Great: we’ve just created a wonderful new way to make gun use MORE dangerous.

Even better: that will mean we need more clampdowns and regulation.

Lenin would be jealous of the strategies of this people.

FiveG on March 11, 2013 at 3:54 PM

It’s not the insane politicos I’m worried about. It’s my neighbors who think they’re safer if I’m disarmed. It’s they who give the nutballs in office the power to dictate how I should be allowed to protect myself (or not, as the case may be).

Trust the people if you like. They’ve proven time and time again they can’t be trusted to defend, or even care about, their own liberty.

runawayyyy on March 11, 2013 at 3:25 PM

I would be very concerned about that inmany places. Luckily I’m in a heavily Republican area, and my neighborhood is mostly current, retired, or former military, and a lot of us are current DoD contractors or GS – and indications are most of us are armed. In fact I know even the doctor next door is a former Army doctor and he does his own reloading.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 3:58 PM

Two can play at this game. Liberals won’t always be in charge, and they have plenty of “sins” that can be taxed.

Prop Gun on March 11, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Alternative Headline:

“Purported Champions Of The 99% Argue That Only The 1% Should Be Able To Defend Themselves”

Resist We Much on March 11, 2013 at 2:11 PM

Indeed. It’s incredible that the average Leftist does not/can not/will not see this hypocrisy from their leaders, all of whom are “1%ers.”

The only conclusion I can come to is that the average Leftist/Dem voter sees politicians as more intelligent, more righteous, and generally superior to themselves, and -want- incrementally diminished liberty and opportunities, especially for their own children.

The average Dem voter wants to be told what to eat, what to think, what to learn, how to live, etc.

visions on March 11, 2013 at 4:10 PM

As to the thing on Mark Kelly – another good point, that should be considered to be a straw purchase, was he intending to start up a one-man version of Obama’s Guns for Gangsters program?

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Is he from the same part of Arizona as Sheriff Arpaio?
I’d love to see Arpaio arrest him on charges of making a straw purchase.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 4:10 PM

Over-taxing and banning things just creates a black market. Prohibition is an obvious example. Leftists will never understand this, I guess.

visions on March 11, 2013 at 4:11 PM

Liberalism is truly a mental disease, how about we tax liberals for every stupid, brain dead, dumbass idea they come up with, and at the rate they are coming up with coming up with these dumbass ideas, we should be able to off the national debt by the end of the week.

Beastdogs on March 11, 2013 at 4:13 PM

I’ve heard Dave Ramsey talk about a Stupid Tax. Can we tax “stupid?”

iurockhead on March 11, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Oh, wow, we might be able to suck 40% out of the GDP with that sort of tax. We could eliminate all other forms of taxation entirely.

I’m trying to decide if I’d be better served stocking money or ammunition.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Well, inflation would make your ammunition more valuable, whereas money…….

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Good info, thank you. I’ve been looking at the self-reliant aspects on the other end of the spectrum, too. That will take some investment, however, as well as time committed to doing the work.

I may have to learn more about machining.

trigon on March 11, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Yep.

GWB on March 11, 2013 at 4:21 PM

I’m trying to decide if I’d be better served stocking money or ammunition.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM

I’m going for the ammo investment.
I see a very near future where ammo will be far more valuable than cash or gold.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 4:24 PM

I’m trying to decide if I’d be better served stocking money or ammunition.

Washington Nearsider on March 11, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Stop trying to decide and do it, makes sense and reloading is a fun hobby; nothing like shooting your own rounds.

I have the advantage of owning a fab shop, being a welder, and employing some true machining wizards, there is very little I couldn’t do if I needed to.

Bishop on March 11, 2013 at 4:25 PM

Over-taxing and banning things just creates a black market. Prohibition is an obvious example. Leftists will never understand this, I guess.

visions on March 11, 2013 at 4:11 PM

I would like the opportunity to publicly ask these Dem idiots how well the ban on alcohol went? How about the bans on MJ, heroin, cocaine, LSD, etc, etc, etc.
So how are all those bans working out?

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 4:27 PM

As to the thing on Mark Kelly – another good point, that should be considered to be a straw purchase, was he intending to start up a one-man version of Obama’s Guns for Gangsters program?

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Is he from the same part of Arizona as Sheriff Arpaio?
I’d love to see Arpaio arrest him on charges of making a straw purchase.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 4:10 PM

That would be great!

And it should please the Gun grabber statists to no end….. /sarc.

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM

How about a ONE MILLION DOLLAR TAX on anyone wanting to become a politician?

GarandFan on March 11, 2013 at 4:36 PM

How about a ONE MILLION DOLLAR TAX on anyone wanting to become a politician?

GarandFan on March 11, 2013 at 4:36 PM

That gave me an idea.
How about we tax politicians 50% of all campaign funds collected, and that money goes as a bond against that politician violating the Constitution or any laws? ANY violation and they relinquish the bond to be distributed to the taxpayers of said politician’s district.

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 4:43 PM

I have a better idea. Sin taxes on violence: violent movies and TV shows, violent video games, book with violence. The Excessive Violence Tax (EVT).

Also, in order to view, read, or purchase a movie. TV show, video game, etc. with violent content, you must:

1. Submit to a 30 day waiting period.
2. Submit to a nationwide background check with a fee.
3. Pass a required anger management exam with a fee.
4. Not live within three miles of a school, a playground, or anywhere where kids gather. You pay for moving expenses.
5. May not be a scout leader, belong to a boys and girls club, Sunday School teacher, or anything that involves kids.

After you have done that, THEN come to me with sin taxes on the external products that a violence wracked mind chooses.

Work on the interior first, the addiction to violence and the idea that one can harm another without harming himself, then come to me. I still won’t agree with banning or taxing the external stuff, but you will have gone a long way to lessening violence.

Remember the absurdity of “Fight for peace!”

billrowe on March 11, 2013 at 4:47 PM

If there is anyone here who already does their own reloading and is looking for a new customer, let me know. I’m definitely interested.

Personally, I wouldn’t give anyone my reloaded ammo. Too much potential liability, income tax, and commercial license issues. But I’m sure you could find someone who would let you use their loading machine to load your own ammo.

Socratease on March 11, 2013 at 4:58 PM

Interesting point.

Sorry to be asking some newbie questions but,

Are you talking about a single stage press instead of one with multiple stages?

With that kind of arrangement, do you just put each element in at a time – primer, powder and shell?

How do you measure out the powder each time?

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Almost. Not exactly. I have a Lee 4 stage for my smaller calibers that I shoot a lot. 9mm Luger and any recipe of .223/5.56. With the Lee, I do everything on the turret, although if I’m making Match Ammo, I separatly measure the powder for each round. The turret powder stage is not as accurate. It’s a contained chamber to measure the powder and “stick” formed powder just doesn’t measure well like that.

For the larger calibers, 30.06, 30-30 and .308 I use a RCBS Rock Chucker single stage. Once the brass is cleaned and case prepped, it isn’t a big deal to change the dies for the other two stages.
And all the larger cartridges are match made for hunting so again, I measure each powder load separatly.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2013 at 2:47 PM

I BEG of you! Do NOT give Martin “The Schmuck” O’Malley ANY ideas!

NavyMustang on March 11, 2013 at 5:01 PM

None of these gun control ideas are new, Democrats are just dusting them off after pretending to be pro-gun after the post assault weapon ban incumbent massacre. Time to remind your representative why he’s been pretending to be pro-gun since Al Gore’s presidential loss.

Socratease on March 11, 2013 at 5:03 PM

If this new law by Diane Feinstein is true, then I’ll galdly pay the sin tax. I can’t believe I didn’t know about this before now, but this is going to solve a bunch of problems. Anyone know the bag limits?

MikeA on March 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM

If this new law by Diane Feinstein is true, then I’ll galdly pay the sin tax. I can’t believe I didn’t know about this before now, but this is going to solve a bunch of problems. Anyone know the bag limits?

MikeA on March 11, 2013 at 5:17 PM

I have a better idea. We subject ourselves to neither.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 5:36 PM

dentarthurdent on March 11, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Intriguing idea.

FloatingRock on March 11, 2013 at 5:37 PM

This sounds like something that Hank Johnson would say.
I think a waiting period needs to be applied on politicians before they shoot of their mouths.

Just think, if black and hispanic gangstas would just stop shooting one another, gun crimes would fall by nearly 70% … hint, hint, hint.

kregg on March 11, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Residents Urged To Prep For ‘Two Weeks On Your Own’ On Quake Anny
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/03/11/residents-urged-to-prep-for-two-weeks-on-your-own-on-quake-anny/

Too bad the government is doing it’s level best to try and get people more dependent on it.

Which includes destroying the right to keep and bear arms.

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 3:04 PM

Almost. Not exactly. I have a Lee 4 stage for my smaller calibers that I shoot a lot. 9mm Luger and any recipe of .223/5.56. With the Lee, I do everything on the turret, although if I’m making Match Ammo, I separatly measure the powder for each round. The turret powder stage is not as accurate. It’s a contained chamber to measure the powder and “stick” formed powder just doesn’t measure well like that.

For the larger calibers, 30.06, 30-30 and .308 I use a RCBS Rock Chucker single stage. Once the brass is cleaned and case prepped, it isn’t a big deal to change the dies for the other two stages.
And all the larger cartridges are match made for hunting so again, I measure each powder load separatly.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Thanks for the information.

Cost considerations my keep me away from the multiple stage units, but as a better than nothing solution may be a single stage.

My research so far has one of the presses around a C-note, but I suppose there are additional equipment costs.

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 7:05 PM

I wonder if mark kelly used money from his and giffords PAC to make his purchases? Wouldn’t that violate a few laws as well?

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 7:39 PM

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 7:05 PM

It is like any other hobby. You think you are going to start small, but before you know it, you are buying case trimmers and deburring tools, and primer feed tubes, and tumblers, and calipers, and primer pocket cleaning tools, and…

Lee makes the least expensive equipment, and it works for what it is. You will eventually want to upgrade to Hornady, RCBS, Lyman, or Dillon. I started out with a Hornady Classic kit many years ago and upgraded to their progressive press recently.

stvnscott on March 11, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Buy a blackpowder rifle, too. Bullet mold for it. A few pounds of pyrodex, and gather up some wheel weights from your local salvage yard.

With some spent 12 guage shells, and a single or double, and 209 primers you can use simple wadding and shoot them blackpowder style. Bag of buckshot. Empty clear film canisters marked with the first powder measure in felt tip (level line) work well. Same with shot. An old tee-shirt can be cut uo for wadding.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:01 PM

30-06 for $26.99. great way to learn the basics.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/508946/lee-classic-loader-30-06-springfield.

You get over the fear of reloading quickly when you start out primitive beating on bullets with a hammer.

Plus, they are part of an ultimate bug-out kit.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:21 PM

stvnscott on March 11, 2013 at 8:29 PM

Good advice here.

hawkdriver on March 12, 2013 at 2:43 AM

Sin taxes are wrong bcs they target a specific group of producers, etc. that make the product being taxed.
Like alcohol. Poor people in Appalachia had no other way to get their corn & fruits to market. It was in the form of booze.
Meanwhile, the corn & fruit farmer in the lowlands near railways & roads was able to easily transport their crop to market without having to turn it into alcohol.
While I greatly respect & admire George Washington, the Whiskey Rebellion was the absolute WRONG choice & set the tone for things to come.
It is not for the Federal Govt to legislate morality in the name of making a buck.
Taxes should be applied evenly, not on a selective group.
And of course, SWalker I believe said it best earlier, basically what part of infringe do these POSes not undersatnd?

Badger40 on March 12, 2013 at 8:20 AM

The 2nd amendment makes no attempt to grant anyone a right to anything. It explicitly and specifically forbids the Federal and State Governments of the United States of America from passing any law that would restrict, impinge, make difficult, obstruct, deny or in any other manner infringe upon the ability or right of any free United States Citizen from owning or bearing a firearm.
It is failure to understand this that has led to various state and federal laws which indisputably violate the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution.
SWalker on March 11, 2013 at 1:40 PM

See this is an excellent point to be made.
I often speak about this openly to people.
Sometimes when I have time near the end of my classes, I will often ask students if they know what the Amendments are.
I did this yesterday.
A student asks, “Wait. Is this history class or something?” (it was PHysical Science).
I replied, I am an American citizen, are you one? Then it’s relevant.

It might take a year or two, but…IDAHO OR BUST!
NavyMustang on March 11, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that place has been filling up with CA, WA & OR refugees for many years now.
We know many people who have moved from there to here, North Dakota, bcs there were too many liberals coming in & ruining things.
Really, nowhere is safe from predators of Liberty.

Badger40 on March 12, 2013 at 8:52 AM

Which is all very interesting, because I’m pretty sure that the legitimate and law-abiding citizens who would largely be paying these taxes, are not the ones responsible for gun violence.

Which leads to the next inescapable question: Since we know it isn’t law-abiding gun owners creating the problems, why is the government so damned determined to regulate, tax, & repress them?

roy_batty on March 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Let’s see, last year :

1. Bought an AR

2. Bought a pile of 30 round magazines

3. Started reloading

As always the Democrats are a day late and a dollar short.

claudius on March 12, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Let’s see, last year :
1. Bought an AR
2. Bought a pile of 30 round magazines
3. Started reloading
As always the Democrats are a day late and a dollar short.

claudius on March 12, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Yup – I got mine.
Just got another batch of 30 round AK magazines delivered yesterday.
A bunch more 30 round AR magazines on order from Magpul thanks to their Boulder Airlift for Colorado.

dentarthurdent on March 12, 2013 at 4:39 PM

one year ago bulk 5.56 surplus was 40 cents a round, now at $1.00 plus and climbing

aceinstall on March 12, 2013 at 8:09 PM

NavyMustang on March 11, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that place has been filling up with CA, WA & OR refugees for many years now.
We know many people who have moved from there to here, North Dakota, bcs there were too many liberals coming in & ruining things.
Really, nowhere is safe from predators of Liberty.

Badger40 on March 12, 2013 at 8:52 AM

The same thing happened to us in Maine. Montana is appealing to me but it’s hard to shake the stand and fight instinct.

aceinstall on March 12, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 7:05 PM

good used equipment is around, contact your local range or gun club for contacts you can count on.

aceinstall on March 12, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Even with my tin hat on tightly, years ago, I saw this coming. Planning ahead may have made my kids laugh at me, but now they want me to provide ammo so they can go to the range.

InTheBellyoftheBeast on March 12, 2013 at 9:55 PM

one year ago bulk 5.56 surplus was 40 cents a round, now at $1.00 plus and climbing

aceinstall on March 12, 2013 at 8:09 PM

I just got a case of Silver Bear (Russian made) zinc-coated steel casing 7.62×39 ammo from a small shop – 500 rounds for $225 (45 cents a round). Also got 100 rounds of .223 zinc casing at the same place for 80 cents a round.
And just got 6 boxes (20 rounds each) of Tulammo 7.62, steel casing for $5.99 a box (30 cents a round) at Sportsman’s Warehouse.

It’s still out there at decent prices. Just be patient, check the small out of the way shops, and avoid the gougers at the gun shows.

dentarthurdent on March 13, 2013 at 12:43 PM

Personally, I aim to misbehave…

SWalker on March 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM

I hope you have the Serenity of righteousness about you when you do too.

44Magnum on March 13, 2013 at 1:28 PM

It’s still out there at decent prices. Just be patient, check the small out of the way shops, and avoid the gougers at the gun shows.

dentarthurdent on March 13, 2013 at 12:43 PM

The daughter’s beau was trying to pawn off some of his .223 stash at more than a dollar a round to me. I told my daughter to tell him that doesn’t help in endearing him to me.

hawkdriver on March 13, 2013 at 1:47 PM

The daughter’s beau was trying to pawn off some of his .223 stash at more than a dollar a round to me. I told my daughter to tell him that doesn’t help in endearing him to me.

hawkdriver on March 13, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Perhaps you need to be cleanin yer guns more often when this boy comes a callin’…. ;)

dentarthurdent on March 13, 2013 at 2:11 PM

The daughter’s beau was trying to pawn off some of his .223 stash at more than a dollar a round to me. I told my daughter to tell him that doesn’t help in endearing him to me.

hawkdriver on March 13, 2013 at 1:47 PM

I also suggest wearing some good t shirts like I’ve seen at the gun shows – if you don’t already have them, like this one:
“Guns Don’t Kill People. Dads With Pretty Daughters Kill People.”

dentarthurdent on March 13, 2013 at 2:16 PM

dentarthurdent on March 13, 2013 at 2:16 PM

;-)

hawkdriver on March 14, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Well, I can’t tell you how infuriating I find it that everyone is ignorant of the fact that there is already a Federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.

11 percent excise tax

That Federal excise tax has been dedicated since the 1930′s to fund wildlife management and habitat restoration efforts across the United States. It has generated billions of dollars for that purpose.

Hunters and even casual shooters already pick up the tab for wildlife management both in local licensing fees and this excise tax. We contribute huge amounts of money that non-hunters/non-shooters may enjoy the wildlife we pay to conserve.

Gun control advocates continually show nothing but flaming ignorance of the contributions we make.

SPQR on March 14, 2013 at 7:54 PM

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