Ohio considers bill to ban traffic cameras after judge calls them a scam

posted at 8:00 pm on March 11, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham

Oh, the bellwether burned us in November, but it could make it up to us now!

Ohio legislators proposed a ban on traffic enforcement cameras to eliminate what they see as violations of drivers’ rights.

The recently introduced bill would eliminate the use of photo monitoring devices to detect speed and traffic signal violations. Several Central Ohio municipalities have banned the use of cameras in lieu of traffic enforcement — some after months of disputes.

Residents in Chillicothe and Heath overwhelmingly voted to eliminate red-light cameras in November 2009 after concerns that cited drivers could not face their accuser in court. The Mansfield City Council unanimously voted down an ordinance to install red-light cameras in January 2010 after a vigorous letter campaign against the proposal.

The bill’s supporters, who hope Ohio will become the nation’s 13th state to ban traffic cameras, got an assist from Common Pleas Court Judget Robert Reuhlman last week when his scathing ruling against the Village of Elmwood made national news:

“Elmwood Place is engaged in nothing more than a high-tech game of Three-card Monty,” Common Pleas Court Judge Robert Ruehlman wrote in his Thursday decision. “It is a scam the motorist cannot win.” …

The judge was particularly biting in writing his decision, blasting the village for taking from its residents instead of providing services to those who pay for them.

“The entire case against the motorist is stacked because the speed monitoring device is calibrated and controlled by Optotraffic,” the judge wrote.

If motorists receiving tickets wanted to contest them, they had to request an administrative hearing that came with a $25 fee.

Elmwood’s speeding tickets cost recipients $105, which is on par with what a speeding-camera ticket will cost you in Washington, D.C. No wonder citizens are up in arms.

It’s nice to hear these revenue-raising schemes called out for what they are, and it’s equally heartening to see the appetite for statism so noticeably low. This is an area where Republicans could earn some everyman votes real quick if they knew what was good for them, and I applaud those who try.

Here in the D.C. area, where the statists are quite high on the “enhanced safety” their traffic cameras bring, they sometimes end up bordering on more trouble than they’re worth. In one Maryland county, vandalism of the cameras was so frequent, they had to install cameras to watch the cameras. Meta-statism! After getting burned a couple times in Washington, D.C., a city celebrity Chef Geoff took a capitalistic and humanitarian approach to the problem. He hired a sign spinner to warn people about the camera. The District was not amused. Although, with just one camera bringing in $12 million, it’s hard to imagine these babies would ever be worth giving up, for the city.

Liberty has a thousand battlefields. It’s always nice to see people fighting and winning on one of them. Good luck, Ohio.

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Liberty has a thousand battlefields. It’s always nice to see people fighting and winning on one of them. Good luck, Ohio.

Too bad the people of Ohio didn’t realize that the Dear Liar’s promise NOT to go after the right of self-defense from Criminals and Tyrants was Also a Scam.

Galt2009 on March 11, 2013 at 8:04 PM

I hope so. Toledo is lousy with them.

rbj on March 11, 2013 at 8:04 PM

I got zpped by a redlight camera on the freeway, when we still had them.
I went by at 5 over the limit (cruise control on) and got a ticket. Turns out the camera was not calibrated correctly, but the judge said 5 over is speeding. Too bad so sad.

Hard Right on March 11, 2013 at 8:08 PM

I wish they would get rid of them in California…

Khun Joe on March 11, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Until very recently, Pasadena, CA had cams that sent out minimum fines of $315.00 for first time red light violation, which included rolling right turns on red. Not to mention points on driver’s license and increase insurance costs. It was nothing short of an extortion racket.

factsonlypls on March 11, 2013 at 8:09 PM

The politicians always say that traffic cameras are purely for safety, when we all know they’re for revenue.

My solution: Prove they’re for safety by rebating all revenues to the taxpayers after deducting the cost of the program.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on March 11, 2013 at 8:09 PM

Maybe Mayor Bloomberg should install eating and drinking cams in restaurants and such to monitor peoples caloric intake. Then send them tickets when they over-imbibe.

Or just install a monitor on NYers faces.

MikeknaJ on March 11, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Residents in Chillicothe and Heath overwhelmingly voted to eliminate red-light cameras in November 2009 after concerns that cited drivers could not face their accuser in court.

That’s the scam. “Can’t face your accuser in court”? What a joke. If a security camera catches you breaking into a jewelry store, do you get away with it because “you can’t face your accuser”?
People just hate the traffic cameras because they make it harder to get away with breaking traffic laws.

Count to 10 on March 11, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Our Republican machine just had several installed. For the children or something. I swear, the local GOP is worse than the national leadership.

joekenha on March 11, 2013 at 8:14 PM

Residents in Chillicothe and Heath overwhelmingly voted to eliminate red-light cameras in November 2009 after concerns that cited drivers could not face their accuser in court.

But you don’t have an accuser, you have documentation that they went through a red light.

It’s the nature of accusations that you should be able to face your accuser in a trial.

But, take a case of a CSI, they don’t accuse you, the evidence implicates you and they testify to this. Thus as long as it’s a matter of a person looking at the photo and judging that you were caught dead-to-rights, they are a similar “accuser” by forming an opinion on the basis of evidence.

Axeman on March 11, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Since they are digitally-based tools- which means no hard / analog copy exists- the entire legal realm for trusting them is suspect.

The digital info could be hacked, corrupted, or faked without any way to trace the fraud.

ONLY if they installed film-based cameras- which would be prohibitively expensive- could their be some legal basis to trust the info gained by such snooping devices.

Take ‘em down and throw ‘em out!

profitsbeard on March 11, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Elmwood’s speeding tickets cost recipients $105, which is on par with what a speeding-camera ticket will cost you in Washington, D.C. No wonder citizens are up in arms.

excerpt: Mary K Ham

.
How else do we expect them to raise revenue? By cutting taxes ?

listens2glenn on March 11, 2013 at 8:20 PM

Elmwood’s speeding tickets cost recipients $105, which is on par with what a speeding-camera ticket will cost you in Washington, D.C. No wonder citizens are up in arms.

excerpt: Mary K Ham

.
How else do we expect them to raise revenue? By cutting taxes ?

listens2glenn on March 11, 2013 at 8:20 PM

. . . . . . Also, how else is the “666 Beast” gonna keep track of everyone, if we go removing all the cameras?

listens2glenn on March 11, 2013 at 8:24 PM

All kinds of railroading by traffic court system. Got a ticket as a traveler in NC for Unsafe Tire–2 yr old tire had blowout and I ended up damaging (300$) center median cable. CATCH: Court appearance was 2 months later and I was leaving the state in 3 days. No option to contest unless making a personal appearance. Airfare/motel, etc would cost double the fine of $243. Gotcha tactics.

hillsoftx on March 11, 2013 at 8:26 PM

I used to be mad about traffic cameras and speed traps in general. Then I realized it’s just another tax and a few hundred bucks is really nothing compared the rest of the constant taxation we go through. Same with parking tickets. Once you accept that it’s a tax it’s easier to justify… Just ask John Roberts!

I still don’t understand why we can’t get rid of taxes altogether and just borrow all our money.

happytobehere on March 11, 2013 at 8:26 PM

4/10ths of a second flying through at 27 mph in a 40 mph zone cost me over $500. the actual fine was $39. All the rest was fees and charges from the city. (tucson)

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 8:28 PM

I hope so. Toledo is lousy with them.

rbj on March 11, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Tell me about it!!! Husband got a speeding ticket in front of Whitmer High School. $120 and he refuses to pay! The city brought in $3 million in 2012 but was quick to point out the cameras are for safety and not to make money! Yeah Right

wolverinefan on March 11, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Elmwood’s speeding tickets cost recipients $105, which is on par with what a speeding-camera ticket will cost you in Washington, D.C. No wonder citizens are up in arms.

$105??I live in CA and got stopped for a simple speeding ticket, my first ticket for anything in over 10 years, he wrote me up for going 82mph in a 55mph zone, the fine was $500! They are just trying to keep spending and will take every penny they can get.

Dollayo on March 11, 2013 at 8:34 PM

“Elmwood Place is engaged in nothing more than a high-tech game of Three-card Monty,” Common Pleas Court Judge Robert Ruehlman wrote in his Thursday decision. “It is a scam the motorist cannot win.” …

I live in Cincinnati and Ruehlman is a conservative judge. The tiny Elmwood Place took in $1.5 million off this is maybe a year?

In a perhaps related story, there’s been a speed trap on I-75 as it goes through a town bordering Cincinnati, called Arlington Heights. They take in a ton of money that way. So today, the former Clerk of Courts of Arlington Heights, a woman, pleaded guilty to embezzling $250,000 of speeding ticket money over the years. The Assistant Clerk, who happens to be her daughter, is also charged. The Clerk is to spend a year in prison. Nothing about her paying the money back. Not a bad bargain!

Paul-Cincy on March 11, 2013 at 8:34 PM

rbj on March 11, 2013 at 8:04 PM

.
Tell me about it!!! Husband got a speeding ticket in front of Whitmer High School. $120 and he refuses to pay! The city brought in $3 million in 2012 but was quick to point out the cameras are for safety and not to make money! Yeah Right

wolverinefan on March 11, 2013 at 8:28 PM

.
Was it during the morning or afternoon “student rush”?

listens2glenn on March 11, 2013 at 8:35 PM

I guess I am going to go on the other side of the argument here.

I actually like the camera’s for a couple reasons.

1) they are impartial. They ticket you whether you are white, black or purple or any other color. They ticket you whether you are a male or female showing massive amounts of cleavage or an aphrodite. They ticket you whether you are driving a jaguar or a pinto or horse drawn carriage.

2) They make a significantly larger number of citizens aware of the stupidity of the laws they allow to remain on the books, which as number 1 argues is unevenly enforced in general.

3) they leave emergency personal free to pursue other duties or just simply not be hired.

astonerii on March 11, 2013 at 8:37 PM

“Revenue” has several meanings when it comes to government.

CW on March 11, 2013 at 8:40 PM

It was a day of infamy when they first were installed in the US. Europe can go to Hell for having had them first.

Schadenfreude on March 11, 2013 at 8:40 PM

In one Maryland county, vandalism of the cameras was so frequent, they had to install cameras to watch the cameras.

The same thing apparently occurred in LA when I lived there, which caused them to finally give up the program recently. The cameras also caused new traffic problems and hurt business as everyone simply avoided them (and the malls/businesses nearby along with it). What’s not to like?

Another thing was the stoplights in the monitored intersections were notorious for suddenly shifting to red inexplicably. If you were stuck in those intersection thanks to a bumbling driver or a jaywalker, here comes your ticket. The cameras were pretty clearly a scam and only there as yet another desperate money-maker for the greedy LA public sector.

smiley on March 11, 2013 at 8:42 PM

Read this and get really scared.

This is beyond the former USSR.

Schadenfreude on March 11, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Schadenfreude on March 11, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Euro’s are taking them down almost as fast as they go up!

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2013/02/08/protesters-from-the-group-camover-destroy-cctv-cameras-in-germany-video/

Scrumpy on March 11, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Schadenfreude on March 11, 2013 at 8:44 PM

Not the least bit surprised…

Scrumpy on March 11, 2013 at 8:47 PM

1) they are impartial. They ticket you whether you are white, black or purple or any other color. They ticket you whether you are a male or female showing massive amounts of cleavage or an aphrodite. They ticket you whether you are driving a jaguar or a pinto or horse drawn carriage.

they are not so impartial. They ticket you for being the owner of the car, not the driver.

Ellie Mae on March 11, 2013 at 8:59 PM

I have no problem whatsoever with these cameras. Don’t speed, roll thru stop signs or stop lights, or other traffic violations and you won’t be bothered by them as well.

That being said, I would give anything to have these cameras do nothing but watch police cruisers, fire trucks, ambulances, and school buses…especially the police.

Biggest traffic law offenders are police patrols. I was arrested 10 yrs ago because I got into an argument with a officer(charges dropped)because he was writing me a ticket for a blown headlight and didn’t like the fact that I pointed out while he was spouting his bullsh!t that his own cruiser that was 15′ away ALSO had a blown headlight. Told him if he wrote me a ticket I’d see his ass in court. Guess I pushed his button because he then cuffed me and charged me with resisting arrest. It cost me $3K to have an attorney make it all go away.

Since then, I don;t believe I have EVER seen a police officer not break at least one traffic law…all in the name of “police enforcement”.

And for the record, and as a public service announcement…I found out that anytime a officer detains you, you are “technically” arrested (no issues? you’re released). But if any issue arises, they have you by the dangling courage units. That’s why they ALWAYS add the charge of resisting arrest on top of any other charges. Unless you run and jump into the back of their cruiser, you’re resisting. They just figure the court will figure it all out later…AFTER you pay for an attorney.

And for all you former, current, or wannabe police officers that say I’m using one example to stereotype police in general, that excuse was fine 20 yrs ago. Now? The police are the criminals half the time. Don’t like it? Clean your houses up….otherwise all you are is a target when the sh!t hits the fan in this country. As in a target between the good and the bad, with both dropping you on sight.

Renee on March 11, 2013 at 8:59 PM

I’ve gotten multiple tickets from similar traffic cameras with only one problem, it wasn’t my car.

They take a picture of the car and license plate then just look up the plate number and sent the ticket to the address on file. Well I have a plate number that someone else had a similar number to. So what they did was they put some tape on their plate to make it resemble my number and, viola, they avoided the tickets as they all got sent to me.

Receiving a ticket every month and having to fight with their idiot customer service explaining that the car isn’t mine for a half hour each time isn’t fun. These cameras should be banned.

njrob on March 11, 2013 at 9:02 PM

in January of 2012, me and the husband got a bit lost in San Diego..in a construction zone-and accidentally just barely ran a red-light camera. It cost us almost 500 bucks. We’ve no need to ever return to CA.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 11, 2013 at 9:03 PM

They aren’t “impartial” in Tuscon either. You have mexican plates= no ticket.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:06 PM

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:06 PM

With our TX plates, I’m sure SD county saw $$$$. They made it just high enough that it was less expensive for us to pay it-than to drive back(around 1000 miles) to contest it.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 11, 2013 at 9:08 PM

Automated law enforcement of ANY KIND isn’t Constitutional, regardless of what legislatures or courts do, similar in manner to the way police “superdogs” do.

You are denied the right to confront the WITNESS(s) against you, because you are being charged on the basis of a machine, or in the case of sniffer “superdogs” probable cause was gleaned by a witness you cannot cross examine.

Let’s face it. People are going to get away with speeding or running a red light, or even packing some weed across a border, because there aren’t enough police to catch everyone.

And you know what, NO ONE SHOULD EVER WISH for that. Does anyone REALLY want to live in a perfect police state, where it is impossible to not get caught? Do any of you realize how many tens of thousands of laws and regulations there are on the books between Federal, State, and Local governments? Do you realize that everyone is likely in violation of AT LEAST ONE OF THEM, if not DOZENS, whether we realize it or not?

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:10 PM

they are not so impartial. They ticket you for being the owner of the car, not the driver.

Ellie Mae on March 11, 2013 at 8:59 PM

They get the license plate and the driver in every place I have lived.

Now, compare that to a lady that has been drinking extensively going 93 mph in a 55 mph speed zone getting off on a warning…

They are very impartial.

Or perhaps a 63 year old fat narcoleptic swerving all over the road as he falls asleep and then reawakens to realign with the road, again given a warning.

I have probably 30 such stories from car rides I have been in where the driver is pulled over and because of their sympathetic nature get warnings rather than tickets. I have more stories where the driver is not so sympathetic and is ticketed with malice for more than they were doing.

astonerii on March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

We told these IDIOT jackwagons this decades ago that this was a scam. Yet they let their big business buddies in to do it anyway for ” safety “.

Fire them all!

TX-96 on March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Hamilton County where Cincinati is located, they set up a portable speed camera at a Soccer Tournament and nabbed a lot of out of towners. The camera was set up along the winding road with a white van, after the tourney was over teams vowed never to come back and they had to cancel all the tickets.
http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/police-chief-cancels-86k-in-speeding-tickets-1/nNRRX/

Patricksp on March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

They aren’t “impartial” in Tuscon either. You have mexican plates= no ticket.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:06 PM

Tuscon is any out of state plate is not forced to pay, unless they register the ticket online after it arrives in the mail.

astonerii on March 11, 2013 at 9:16 PM

The same thing apparently occurred in LA when I lived there, which caused them to finally give up the program recently. The cameras also caused new traffic problems and hurt business as everyone simply avoided them (and the malls/businesses nearby along with it). What’s not to like?

Another thing was the stoplights in the monitored intersections were notorious for suddenly shifting to red inexplicably. If you were stuck in those intersection thanks to a bumbling driver or a jaywalker, here comes your ticket. The cameras were pretty clearly a scam and only there as yet another desperate money-maker for the greedy LA public sector.

smiley on March 11, 2013 at 8:42 PM

If any government in my area dared put up such things the cameras that watch the cameras will be destroyed by deer rifles from well beyond the range the camera can see…

Our local county wasted thousands of dollars putting up “Live Drug Free” signs on every stop sign. I kid you not.

These quickly got vandalized, destroyed, or ripped down. In my own neighborhood has one with duck tape over the “Drug” part changing the sign to read “Live Free”. Of the hundreds there might be a half dozen left.

People around here don’t take too kindly to government propaganda and control.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:16 PM

If you want to live in a free land, then perhaps you should be pushing your politicians to get rid of these laws you do not want to live under.

astonerii on March 11, 2013 at 9:18 PM

ONLY if they installed film-based cameras- which would be prohibitively expensive- could their be some legal basis to trust the info gained by such snooping devices.

profitsbeard

I remember in old days of Soviet Union, if you got on the bad side of Uncle Joe, you were liquidated and then, if you were a public official, you were air brushed out of official photos and ceased to exist.

I wouldn’t trust film either.

BubbaCluck on March 11, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Hamilton County where Cincinati is located, they set up a portable speed camera at a Soccer Tournament and nabbed a lot of out of towners. The camera was set up along the winding road with a white van, after the tourney was over teams vowed never to come back and they had to cancel all the tickets.
http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/local/police-chief-cancels-86k-in-speeding-tickets-1/nNRRX/

Patricksp on March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

WOW! And the police chief in that story was clearly lying. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. He clearly intended to collect the money, buy some more crap for his police department (Ohio tends to be such a speed trap state because of the way fines are collected, the ticket issuing department gets a good chunk of every ticket) but got called on it and had to back off to save his unworthy job.

And it shouldn’t have, they should have stood outside his office with pitchforks and torches until he resigned.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:19 PM

If you want to live in a free land, then perhaps you should be pushing your politicians to get rid of these laws you do not want to live under.

astonerii on March 11, 2013 at 9:18 PM

We need to start being like the left in this regard, we need to start demonstrating on the streets outside the homes of government officials with pitchforks and torches so they get the point…

Government needs to be reminded every day that they work for us, not vice-verse. They serve at the consent of the People, we don’t exist at their consent. Although “Justice” Roberts took a big whack out of that part…

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:23 PM

We told these IDIOT jackwagons this decades ago that this was a scam. Yet they let their big business buddies in to do it anyway for ” safety “.

Fire them all!

TX-96 on March 11, 2013 at 9:15 PM

The whole idea that a private company directly gets a chuck of FINES for violations OF THE LAW stinks worse than the corpse of a Kennedy girlfriend. There should be no such thing, EVER.

That alone should make these camera deals illegal.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:25 PM

So how is that impartial, Asti?

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM

I don’t have a problem with just the cameras. They can indeed be used to track suspects on the run, silver and amber alerts, and in reconstructing accidents or crimes. Cameras in police vehicles are certainly useful (sometimes for the police, sometimes for the Citizen), and have been used with good results in private businesses.

But there are certainly problems with using them as a ticketing tool and we could easily enumerate them.

When tracking chips are placed in every vehicle, this topic will probably be moot as we’ll be fined for every little mistake and no visual confirmation will be necessary.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM

They aren’t “impartial” in Tuscon either. You have mexican plates= no ticket.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:06 PM

Make sure your plate has road dirt on it to the point it’s hard to read, especially at a distance.

I do, in particular whenever I know I’m traveling somewhere that things like these cameras might be legal.

Sometimes not washing the car is a good thing.

Another thing bullycops hate is if you have mirrored glasses, something they love to wear themselves for the intimidation factor.

It also helps if you make it near impossible to be identified as the driver (If the camera doesn’t get a good picture of the driver, chances are you’ll get a “snitch ticket” in which they will try to intimidate you into identifying the driver. They can’t force you to confess to being the driver or to finger the driver).

It’s perfectly legal to wear a helmet in a car. Safety, that’s what all this is supposed to be about, right? If you are dressed like that, in a helmet, wearing mirrored sunglasses, with a dirty car and plate that’s hard to read, you are both perfectly legal and perfectly unidentifiable. Except by a human…

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:30 PM

We had super majorities in both state houses of the leg. and lost trying to get rid of them. The money won.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:30 PM

When tracking chips are placed in every vehicle, this topic will probably be moot as we’ll be fined for every little mistake and no visual confirmation will be necessary.

Dr. ZhivBlago on March 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM

Yet one more reason why it’s not a bad idea to hang on to an older car.

Even if it’s a 1974 AMC Gremlin.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:31 PM

A few years ago we had someone running them on purpose in a rubber halloween gorilla mask.

He beat them.

But, I like the pitchfork idea on all fronts.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:34 PM

WOW! And the police chief in that story was clearly lying. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing. He clearly intended to collect the money, buy some more crap for his police department (Ohio tends to be such a speed trap state because of the way fines are collected, the ticket issuing department gets a good chunk of every ticket) but got called on it and had to back off to save his unworthy job.

And it shouldn’t have, they should have stood outside his office with pitchforks and torches until he resigned.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:19 PM

From friends that went to this Tourney it was a white van with blacked out windows and parked in the grass. Big surprise attendance was down at the next years tourney.

Patricksp on March 11, 2013 at 9:35 PM

Wildcat72- where do you live? (roughly) sounds like they don’t put up with a bunch of crap.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:39 PM

From friends that went to this Tourney it was a white van with blacked out windows and parked in the grass. Big surprise attendance was down at the next years tourney.

Patricksp on March 11, 2013 at 9:35 PM

It should be illegal for government entities to do any kind of traffic enforcement by stealth. No unmarked cars, none of this nonsense.

And their cars should have to be painted a bright color in such a way they stick out like a sore thumb. Police should only be allowed to be inconspicuous when the situation requires it, IE, on a specific investigation,never on a fishing expedition.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Scrumpy on March 11, 2013 at 8:44 PM

That’s good to know. Thanks.

Schadenfreude on March 11, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Wildcat72- where do you live? (roughly) sounds like they don’t put up with a bunch of crap.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Eastern Kentucky, on the border with West Virginia and Ohio.

In Kentucky, you will have problems mostly with small town minimum wage “city police”. We have lots of small towns with no good reason to have a police department. The State Police by and large won’t bother you unless you are a menace on the highway. It’s the same in West Virginia.

In Ohio, they don’t have a state police. They have a Highway Patrol, which is better called the Revenue Patrol. Ohio Highway Patrol have no law enforcement authority whatsoever outside a state highway and rank lower than deputies in a county Sheriffs department.

Which is why they tend to be made up of the bottom of the law enforcement barrel, trained only in how to use radar and laser guns and where to hide.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Since I am one of the sanest, most conservative drivers on earth, I signed up for Progressive Insurance Company’s “Snapshot” program.

I got a notice of a 22% rate reduction but I can’t see it on the charges.

They claim not to watch your speed.

They look for hard braking.

Now, they don’t seem to trust me and want me to keep them hooked up forever.

Oh well, the senior citizens I hired to drive two of my cars are thrilled. (just kidding.)

IlikedAUH2O on March 11, 2013 at 9:48 PM

Now, they don’t seem to trust me and want me to keep them hooked up forever.

Oh well, the senior citizens I hired to drive two of my cars are thrilled. (just kidding.)

IlikedAUH2O on March 11, 2013 at 9:48 PM

I’ll never consent to be monitored by anyone. And as a technical expert, any monitoring device is going to lose it’s silicon brain within seconds.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:52 PM

There’s one camera front-and-center on my regular commute to work, run by Cleveland. To add insult to injury, the street that camera is placed on is now badly pot-hole ridden (no thanks to a really cold winter “global warming” anomaly) and you really wouldn’t be speeding on it, not if you cherished your cars’ hubcaps and shock absorpers.

You’d think that with all the supposed “revenue” those tickets pull in, some of it actually would go to their street department. But then again, many of the power lines for Cleveland’s city-owned utility are not in good shape, either… and I’m being kind on that statement.

Not a fan of speeding tickets, either, only because of abuse by small towns or bedroom suburbs.

To wit, Cleveland has an infamous land-locked suburb name Linndale. It’s not bigger than a standard neighborhood – they only have 179 people and 37 residential addresses. But they have I-71 cutting through it from the northern part – but has no direct interchanges whatsoever. Nevertheless, that 1/4 mile of I-71 is a notorious speed trap. For years, ticket revenues have accounted for 80% of Linndale’s annual revenue.

“Safety?” THBBT.

Myron Falwell on March 11, 2013 at 10:01 PM

In Ohio, they don’t have a state police. They have a Highway Patrol, which is better called the Revenue Patrol. Ohio Highway Patrol have no law enforcement authority whatsoever outside a state highway and rank lower than deputies in a county Sheriffs department.

Which is why they tend to be made up of the bottom of the law enforcement barrel, trained only in how to use radar and laser guns and where to hide.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:43 PM

You nailed it.

I actually feel sorry for those who become Highway Patrolmen thinking that they will be making a difference in some way.

Myron Falwell on March 11, 2013 at 10:09 PM

You nailed it.

I actually feel sorry for those who become Highway Patrolmen thinking that they will be making a difference in some way.

Myron Falwell on March 11, 2013 at 10:09 PM

Another Ohio phenomenon (at least I’ve never seen it, not commonly, anywhere else) is that at certain times of the day at certain times of the month it’s NOT AT ALL uncommon to see more police cars (Revenue Patrol, county, city, all want their “cut”) on the highway than civilian cars.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 10:19 PM

They aren’t “impartial” in Tuscon either. You have mexican plates= no ticket.

wolly4321 on March 11, 2013 at 9:06 PM

I drive from LA to Phoenix and I get caught by the speed cameras on the 10 all of the time. They send me notices, which I’ve been told by friends to ignore. Apparently this is a form of summons service.

If I were to respond to them, I would be acknowledging service of the summons and become responsible. Unless someone drives out from Arizona to serve it, I can just stack them up in my glovebox.

Now if I were to be pulled over in AZ, an officer can write me for whatever infraction caused the stop, plus serve me for the camera violations.

danielreyes on March 11, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Obama should be arrested for impersonating a president.

Sherman1864 on March 11, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Here in the D.C. area, where the statists are quite high on the “enhanced safety” their traffic cameras bring,

That’s a joke. It’s about the money, not safety.

I read a few years back they actually increase traffic accidents. There’s a big increase in rear end collisions. People do panic stops when the light changes to avoid a ticket. Avoiding the accident is second on people’s minds. Also.. more than once I’ve read when it was exposed that cities who use cameras shorten the time length of the yellow light.

It’s all a freaking scam.

What have any security cameras even really done for our society? Even in stores it doesn’t stop thefts. Heck.. we’ve got reality shows on TV with nothing but crooks robbing and stealing in front of the cameras. Even on buses.. thugs will beat people up right in front of the cameras.

We’re a corrupt nation. We’ve lost our morality. Cameras will never replace morality.

But I do notice, the more corrupt our government becomes, the more cameras are pointed on us and the less we know about what goes on in our government. We get fined for minor infractions while politicians get away with near murder.

Everything we do is now being monitored while more and more of our government works behind closed doors.

JellyToast on March 11, 2013 at 10:27 PM

But I do notice, the more corrupt our government becomes, the more cameras are pointed on us and the less we know about what goes on in our government. We get fined for minor infractions while politicians get away with near murder.

Everything we do is now being monitored while more and more of our government works behind closed doors.

JellyToast on March 11, 2013 at 10:27 PM

DC exemplifies this.

DC wants drones to watch us, hell, even to KILL US, and is stockpiling automatic weapons by the thousands and ammunition by the billions of rounds, while wanting to take semi-autos away from us. They put cameras everywhere, sexually assault us in airports, and try their best to hide what THEY are doing.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 10:35 PM

I don’t mind the traffic cameras. But given the legal issues it would be better if warnings were mailed to drivers instead of tickets, with the goal to get drivers to understand what truly bad drivers they really are.

However, if a person gets ticketed by a real-life traffic officer after having been warned, each previous warning should double the base fine in order to pay for the camera system. That way, when an offender whines over a $400 fine for running just one measely red light, the judge can remind him of the three (apparently unheeded) warnings for previous red-light running that doubled the base $50 fine three times over.

shuzilla on March 11, 2013 at 11:07 PM

Long overdue.

johnnyU on March 11, 2013 at 11:30 PM

Well Ohio is in the news today. Voter fraud! How surprising?!

HellCat on March 12, 2013 at 2:32 AM

Three words: “Paint ball gun”

kurtzz3 on March 12, 2013 at 2:36 AM

It was about a year ago IIRC that a judge in the People’s Republic of Palm Beach, Florida finally wised up and threw out about six months to a year of traffic camera tickets issued after locals had gotten together and videotaped intersections where the traffic cameras and traffic signals were shortening the yellow light duration to force a red light result as cars passed the cameras.

The proof that the camera ticketing apparatus was pure racket couldn’t have been more obvious.

viking01 on March 12, 2013 at 3:10 AM

People just hate the traffic cameras because they make it harder to get away with breaking traffic laws.

Count to 10 on March 11, 2013 at 8:13 PM

Exactly.

Where part of the problem in my area lies, however, is the overuse of traffic lights, the length of time used to trigger a change, and the lack of flexibility in how the lights are engineered. We have traffic lights anywhere someone ever complained they couldn’t pull out onto the road because the traffic was too heavy. Waah. We have lights that won’t cycle even when you can see a half mile down the road and there are no cars coming. Then, there are the places with only an arrow for a left turn – so you can’t turn when there is no one on that half mile stretch of road – or no right turn arrow when the other road is only allowing left turns – forcing you to stop before proceeding despite there being no one to whom you have to yield.

The red light camera that caught me did it right: it sent me a picture, and it sent me a link to the video of my infraction. I do disagree with the idea of charging me a fee to contest the citation. Now, I have no idea how sensitive the system is, because my violation was pretty clear.

GWB on March 12, 2013 at 10:27 AM

The other problem around here is that the actual police officers won’t pull anyone over for running a red light and such. Half the time they are on their cell phone. I have seen a police officer sitting in the pole position at a light, and someone ran the light right in front of them – they merely went on their way……..

GWB on March 12, 2013 at 10:29 AM

People do panic stops when the light changes to avoid a ticket. Avoiding the accident is second on people’s minds.

JellyToast on March 11, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Sorry, but it’s the second car’s responsibility to not follow so closely it can’t stop in time.

plus serve me for the camera violations.

danielreyes on March 11, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Actually, he can arrest you. He doesn’t have to “serve” you at all. If you ignore all those, there might very well be a warrant on you.

GWB on March 12, 2013 at 10:32 AM

And their cars should have to be painted a bright color in such a way they stick out like a sore thumb.

wildcat72 on March 11, 2013 at 9:39 PM

I sometimes wish they could hide. Everyone around here slams on their brakes when they see the highway patrol. It causes accidents and traffic backups. (BTW, I have never been pulled over where I live now for passing a police officer on the highway within 10MPH of the limit.)

GWB on March 12, 2013 at 10:38 AM

I use Waze social traffic app, all speed cameras come up with a warning around 3k feet before. Very happy with it. Also, in CO, unless you are served by a police officer with your ticket, and you do not respond to the notices sent by mail, you ticket is dismissed within 90 days, no need to bother with them. However different states have different statutes, so dont disregard your tickets in other states.

anikol on March 12, 2013 at 12:45 PM

‘Ohio considers bill to ban traffic cameras after judge calls them a scam” – title of thread

Darn, I thought I was the only one who considered them a scam.

SC.Charlie on March 12, 2013 at 1:09 PM

I’ve been driving since around 1965. The last ticket I got for speeding was in 1979. I have had no wrecks. Do I go the speed limit? …………… no. I go with the flow of the traffic and try to maintain an adequate distance between myself and the car in front of me. I, also, try to keep totally aware of all other cars around me. In other words, I drive defensively and sensibly. By the way I have lived in Atlanta, where the unofficial speed limit in the far left hand lane is 90 mph or plus.

SC.Charlie on March 12, 2013 at 1:16 PM