Oh my: Carl Levin to retire next year

posted at 8:01 pm on March 7, 2013 by Allahpundit

Thirty-five years is a looooong time, but I bet he would have stuck around if he thought O’s master plan to get the House back in Democratic hands next year had a real shot of working. It’d be worth running again to him if he could spend the next two years pushing the liberal dream agenda through Congress and onto Obama’s desk. As it is, since in reality he’s staring at two more years of gridlock, why bother? Especially considering that he’s chairman of the Armed Services Committee and will face endless headaches related to cutting the Pentagon’s budget. And, er, to dealing with Chuck Hagel.

Second look at a Republican-controlled Senate?

Levin would have been heavily favored to win another term heading into 2014. The six-term senator has not faced a tough contest in almost three decades: He has won with at least 57 percent of the vote since his first re-election in 1984.

It’s unlikely — but not impossible — that the race for Levin’s successor will be competitive. In 2012, President Barack Obama won the Wolverine State by 9 points. In fact, a GOP presidential nominee has not won Michigan since 1988, and the state has only elected one Republican — former Sen. Spencer Abraham in 1994 — to a single term since 1972…

Republicans on the ground stress that in off-year presidential cycles, their candidates do well in statewide campaigns. Democrats admit that the seat is more competitive without Levin, but are bullish – especially if the GOP produces a tea party candidate.

Michigan is reliably blue in presidential elections but not in statewide races. The governor’s seat and both chambers of the legislature are controlled by the GOP. This is, potentially, gettable — which is why, as soon as I heard the news, I had the same thought as DrewM (minus the fatalism at the end):

Yep. Amash, a libertarian in the Ron-n-Rand mold, has said before that he’s “intrigued” at the thought of running for Senate. He certainly wanted to be there yesterday:

A Republican operative who follows Michigan politics told NRO last month that he thought Amash would jump in if Levin retired. From the same article: “Amash’s consideration is alarming to Michigan Republicans, who are hoping to back a more established candidate, especially if Levin retires and the seat opens.” If Karl Rove’s new group really is angling to neutralize tea-party candidates in purplish districts to clear the way for more centrist Republicans, wading in to stop Amash is a natural move. (The “establishment” candidate could be Lt. Gov. Brian Calley, Attorney General Bill Schuette, or House Intel Committee Chair Mike Rogers.) The question is, do Amash’s youth and libertarianism mean he’ll play better or worse with independents and young voters than a typical Republican in a blue state like Michigan? The fact that he joined the abortive House insurrection against Boehner in January will come in handy in running for Senate, as it’ll enhance his tea-party cred in the primary and distance him from the sour GOP brand in the general. To see what he’s up against, though, read this piece from last month in MLive quoting local political analysts various and sundry dumping on his chances. Exit question: Cruz versus Dewhurst II? Your move, Karl.


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How did AZ voters get suckered in to re-electing this clown again?

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 8:39 PM

Because McCant lied to the voters and actually campaigned as a conservative, effectively neutering any distinction between him and JD Hayworth. Hayworth thus had no chance.

If McCant campaigned with 1/1000000th of that passion during the 2008 election, he might have actually became President.

Myron Falwell on March 7, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Raquel, I think you overlooked something major that happened last night.

Rand Paul opened the eyes of a lot of lefties over this domestic drone kill issue. I believe that standing up to Obama the way he did, planted seeds last night. If you listened to the callers on Rush’s show today, you would know that a lot of lefties are now reaching out to their conservative friends and asking for more information. One guy said all of his friends are lefties and they now agreed to sit down and look at Breitbart’s movie on the Occupy fraud this weekend. Before, they kept telling their conservative friend that he watched too much foxnews. They could not believe that the AG and administration were actually not soundly decrying vaporizing US Citizens on US soil having dinner in a cafe, just because they MIGHT be know some terrorists. The lefties realized that Obama was willing to shred due process and the 5th amendment.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Well you are right in that regard it did mug some lefties in to seeing the light. But in terms of policy it changed nothing. But again converting a few lefties over is good enough on its own.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Don’t nominate an establishment Republican. They are indistinguishable from Dems and they all lose a la Rehberg, Allen, Thompson et al. People are understanding that we are entering unprecedented times and need something new. The Cruz’s, Johnson’s, Rubio’s and Toomey’s win. Nominate an unabashed reform conservative in MI and we can win.

breffnian on March 7, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Because McCant lied to the voters and actually campaigned as a conservative, effectively neutering any distinction between him and JD Hayworth. Hayworth thus had no chance.

If McCant campaigned with 1/1000000th of that passion during the 2008 election, he might have actually became President.

Myron Falwell on March 7, 2013 at 9:40 PM

And AZ voters didn’t have his record of what 20+ yrs in the senate to look at to see if what he was saying matched his record? Or are AZ conservatives that gullible?

Cheap date conservatism: tell us what we want to hear…and we will ignore your abusive past…

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Muslims for Bush 88% in 2000. By 2012 they were down to 8%.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:34 PM

And to keep that constituency all we had to do was not make a big deal out of 3,000 incinerated Americans.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Screw you, your momma, and your slime-covered GOP. I’ll take *any* Republican, Libertarian, or anyone in between – Ron Paul, Chris Crispy, and Christine O’Crazy including – over a Karl Rove candidate. Heck, I can even come up with some names with a “D” behind them whom I’ll take over Rove’s candidate any day and twice on Sundays.

Archivarix on March 7, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Haha. I am NOT a RINO. I am usually always supporting the tea party candidate over any Rove backed candidate. However in this case, Amash is a Ron Paul loony, and I would support anyone OVER a Ron Paul clone.

And btw, chill out on the vulgarities…

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Obama won MI because he had the luxury of running against a RINO candidate who did not distinguish himself between himself and Obama. Also, Obama aired ads here, unanswered, for 11 months, which defined Romney as an elitist 1%er. Romney did not get on the air until October, way too late. Romney never TRIED to win this state.

However, the state legislature held GOP, in spite of vigorous campaigning by the unions here. They tried to make MI their firewall state in the rust belt against any right to work attempts. They put THREE things on the ballot to codify union enslavement in our constitution. They were soundly defeated. The pro union candidates did not unseat any of the GOP state office holders. I think maybe one seat flipped.

MI has more GOP House members in Congress, I think it is 9 to 5 at this point. Eventually the demographics in this state are changing enough, through population declines, so the detroit area no longer overwhelms the statewide votes.

So don’t blame Obama winning MI on MI being a BLUE state. For pete’s sake, Romney couldn’t even win some of the states that McCain won.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 9:46 PM

And to keep that constituency all we had to do was not make a big deal out of 3,000 incinerated Americans.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 9:44 PM

How so? There is a difference between fighting a war on terror and accusing anyone that is a Muslim of being a terrorist.

Give me a break. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. In 2004, 74% of Muslims still voted for Bush and this was at the height of war with the “Islam world.”

Muslims voted for the GOP for one main reason: Social issues. Just like American Jews vote for the Dems for the same reason.

Since you only picked up on the Muslim part of my comment. How about the Asians? From 80% to 24%??? Explain that.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:50 PM

breffnian on March 7, 2013 at 9:42 PM

I firmly believe the next 2 national election cycles in 14 and 16 are going to be Washington DC insiders versus outsiders, in almost every party. The outsiders have the edge right now.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Raquel, the racial voting is because Obama is a brilliant politician and community organizer who plays the race card, 24/7, with the willing cooperation of the media. Period.

The GOP has extremely poor messaging, we all agree Boehner and McConnell are dismal choices to be leading the GOP in Congress right now. Did you hear how lame McConnell sounded around 11 pm last night on the Senate floor?

The tea party Senators were eloquent, on point, with messaging that was reaching the lefties on the issue. McConnell got up, stuttered with marbles in his mouth for about 5 minutes to the point where I was totally confused as to what he said. I had to ask the posters here at HotAir in the filibuster thread.

With that handicap, how is the GOP supposed to reach around the media and Obama and inform minority voters why enslavement by the dems is not in their best interests? You answer that one, you could run the party.

Obviously the answer is to not vote those losers into leadership. That was the biggest disappointment from the 2010 elections. As soon as those 88 new GOP freshmen hit the House, Boehner took them into the room, one by one and “explained” how they had to play along to get along or they would NEVER get any re-election assistance or good party assignments.

Almost all of them were sheep and went along. One of the ones that didn’t was Amash, and you are bashing him because of your pathological hatred of Ron Paul.

You can’t have it both ways. Either we have to support those who are trying to buck against the fossils in Congress or we just need to throw in the towel, vote democrat and wait for our free stuff. Dayum.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Just read through about Amash’s political views. He seems great. I don’t get the vociferous negativity by a handful of posters on this thread. However, I do see that he endorsed Ron Paul in 2012, which is a bit kooky… but in retrospect?

I dunno, dude seems pretty awesome.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Give me a break. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. In 2004, 74% of Muslims still voted for Bush and this was at the height of war with the “Islam world.”

A 14% drop in support on the way down?

Maybe you should take a look at some polling from Muslims countries, European Muslims, and US Muslim opinions.

That was exactly the choice to be made. None of the Europeans have managed to square that circle either.

Since you only picked up on the Muslim part of my comment. How about the Asians? From 80% to 24%??? Explain that.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:50 PM

To be blunt, the nation is being divided along racial grounds, ethnic, religious and ideological divides as the multicultural society starts to unravel. Decades have been spent making this happen through leftist efforts and they are bearing their rotten fruit.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 9:58 PM

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Basically the way to reach them is to micro target them like Obama did, go to their communities and offer them the conservative message directly. Believe it or not there are pockets of immigrants from Haiti, Trinidad, Venezuela, Cuba who would be open to the GOP. The Lt. Gov of FL is Trinidadian, like me. She is very popular among the same communities that Romney needed to win to carry FL, but he didn’t hold a single rally with her.

Fine you like amash, I will reserve judgement for now.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Haha. I am NOT a RINO. I am usually always supporting the tea party candidate over any Rove backed candidate. However in this case, Amash is a Ron Paul loony, and I would support anyone OVER a Ron Paul clone.

And btw, chill out on the vulgarities…

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:46 PM

Surprise, I’m *not* a Tea Party fan – or rather, I’m not a fan of what the Tea Party has become since Santelli’s rant – and I’m totally sick of what Karl Rove is molding the GOP into.

Oh, and when I need a language advisor, I’ll give you call. Don’t hold your breath, though.

Archivarix on March 7, 2013 at 10:03 PM

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Exactly. And the Ron Paul haters have to also take Amash’s age into consideration. I think he is only 32 years told. These young republicans are fighting for their fiscal lives because they understand that their generation is being robbed down to their bone through generational theft by these bloated budgets and national debt load. Even these young republicans, their own future grand kids will still be bearing the burden of this reckless spending.

While Ron Paul might have awakened these young pups away from being Obamabots, over time, these young republicans are going to find their own leaders, their generation, and begin to help win this country back from the brink.

I seem to be the only poster here who has been in Amash’s district. I have watched him closely, listened to him locally, etc. He was almost the only primary candidate that reached out to the tea party in 2010. He regularly attends tea party events to stay in touch. He regularly holds in person townhalls and does not hide from his constituents. Overall, the people in this district are very happy with his performance in DC.

This is a VERY CONSERVATIVE area of the state. He has struck a good balance of keeping the focus on the spending and constitution. That is his moral compass.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 10:06 PM

To be blunt, the nation is being divided along racial grounds, ethnic, religious and ideological divides as the multicultural society starts to unravel. Decades have been spent making this happen through leftist efforts and they are bearing their rotten fruit.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 9:58 PM

Ok fair enough. But why not fight back? We can go in to those communities and share the conservative message, and they would realize where they belong. You fight fire with fire, you don’t just give up. Especially when after the election it seems the GOP is hell bent on pandering instead of reaching out and listening. Face it Asians are a much faster growing constituency than Mexicans. And Asians have always been a natural GOP constituency, unlike Hispanics with the exception of Cubans/Venezuelans.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:06 PM

Surprise, I’m *not* a Tea Party fan – or rather, I’m not a fan of what the Tea Party has become since Santelli’s rant – and I’m totally sick of what Karl Rove is molding the GOP into.

Oh, and when I need a language advisor, I’ll give you call. Don’t hold your breath, though.

Archivarix on March 7, 2013 at 10:03 PM

It’s one thing to debate and engage me. It’s another thing to make a comment like “screw you, your momma.” We are not in high school, mama jokes and insults are not a debate tactic. You could have said all that without the opening insults hurled at me. you hate Karl Rove? When did I say I liked him? I don’t get what you are arguing with me about.

You need to drink some decaf, and get some psychiatric help.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:02 PM

I COMPLETELY agree with you. This is where the GOP got out organized by a community organizer. And during his first term, he had a chance to keep his massive database collection effort going, on top of his mastery of the new social media.

Romney, that old fool, approached this election like the typical election over the past 50+ years. And he was scared to directly confront Obama because Obama so freely plays the race card. And Romney was a whole generation older.

The GOP is wising up, but while fossils like Rove are distracting everyone by trying to maintain his power and influence in the party, the real work of the outreach is not getting done.

I breaks my heart. I hope YOU run for office. We need these voices.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Good riddance, Levin… you’ve done enough damage to the Republic…

Khun Joe on March 7, 2013 at 10:14 PM

I COMPLETELY agree with you. This is where the GOP got out organized by a community organizer. And during his first term, he had a chance to keep his massive database collection effort going, on top of his mastery of the new social media.

Romney, that old fool, approached this election like the typical election over the past 50+ years. And he was scared to directly confront Obama because Obama so freely plays the race card. And Romney was a whole generation older.

The GOP is wising up, but while fossils like Rove are distracting everyone by trying to maintain his power and influence in the party, the real work of the outreach is not getting done.

I breaks my heart. I hope YOU run for office. We need these voices.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Like Breibart said we need to win the culture war. That’s where it starts. Rove is part of the old guard of the GOP. The GOP needs to diversify become younger, more multicultural, more vibrant, more aggressive. We need to travel to minority communities and sell them the conservative message in person, as some may never hear it watching the MSM, and some may never be aware of what conservatism really is. That is the wave of the future.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:14 PM

Democrats admit that the seat is more competitive without Levin, but are bullish – especially if the GOP produces a tea party candidate.

Code for What we really fear is a Tea Party Candidate.

My word the GOP did well in Michigan when Conservatives run they always lose with Karl Rove endorsed losers. All his candidates lost. So why on earth would the DNC fear one of those.

Answer. Most of the time they say they fear the opposite of what they really fear and visa versa. After all they are the Smart Party.

Steveangell on March 7, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Muslims for Bush 88% in 2000. By 2012 they were down to 8%.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:34 PM

They voted 90%+ in 2012 for a guy named Hussein and voted 88% for Bush in 2000 because Al Gore’s running mate was a Orthodox Jew.

Smells like bigotry.

sentinelrules on March 7, 2013 at 10:19 PM

Ok fair enough. But why not fight back? We can go in to those communities and share the conservative message, and they would realize where they belong.

I guess I respect them enough to assume they know what they want, and have chosen the Democrats as an expression of that desire?

You fight fire with fire, you don’t just give up.

I face reality and try to treat people like adults not children. 75% of Hispanics say they want big government. They vote for what they want. The Muslims want a Muslim society and the Democrats are willing to go along with that and they vote accordingly.

They are not children who do not understand their own minds.

Especially when after the election it seems the GOP is hell bent on pandering instead of reaching out and listening.

You assume I see any value in that pandering. If the GOP becomes a Democratic clone handing out the goodies and helping to destroy the nation they very well could make a few feeble gains in some areas. Unless they can outpander the leftists though its largely a wasted effort.

Face it Asians are a much faster growing constituency than Mexicans. And Asians have always been a natural GOP constituency, unlike Hispanics with the exception of Cubans/Venezuelans.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:06 PM

I have heard this same ‘natural constituency’ line with Hispanics and its simply false. I don’t know why Asians are voting leftist but I imagine it has to do with supporting leftist positions. That is why Jews, Muslims, blacks, liberals, and Hispanics vote for the left.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 10:20 PM

Give me a break. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. In 2004, 74% of Muslims still voted for Bush and this was at the height of war with the “Islam world.”

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Where are you getting your data?

In the 2004 presidential election between Bush and John Kerry, exit polls showed that 85 percent of Muslim voters supported the Democrat. Four years later, Obama captured 90 percent.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republican-candidates-avoid-direct-outreach-michigan-muslims-arab-134539124.html

sentinelrules on March 7, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Fine you like amash, I will reserve judgement for now.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Very wise move on your part..:)

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 10:26 PM

It’s one thing to debate and engage me. It’s another thing to make a comment like “screw you, your momma.” We are not in high school, mama jokes and insults are not a debate tactic. You could have said all that without the opening insults hurled at me. you hate Karl Rove? When did I say I liked him? I don’t get what you are arguing with me about.

You need to drink some decaf, and get some psychiatric help.

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Are you a licensed shrink? If you aren’t, stow your advise where the sun doesn’t shine. If you are, stow it even deeper. :)

Now, you were foaming at the mouth against Amash because of him being what, a younger version of Ron Paul? What was your problem with Ron Paul, again? His alleged racism? Even if it’s true, I’m totally on board with it – and I’m a right-wing Israeli Jew. Oh wait, I know – you absolutely hate the idea of a small, Cbased government. shame, I should have figured it…

Archivarix on March 7, 2013 at 10:27 PM

I have heard this same ‘natural constituency’ line with Hispanics and its simply false. I don’t know why Asians are voting leftist but I imagine it has to do with supporting leftist positions. That is why Jews, Muslims, blacks, liberals, and Hispanics vote for the left.
sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 10:20 PM

Almost. There’s the three axis of politics.
Conservatives care primarily about Civilization vs Barbarism.
Libertarians care primarily about Freedom vs Coercion.
Progressives care primarily about The Oppressed vs Oppressors.

Racial minorities are very concerned with “oppression” even if the are “conservative” socially and fiscally. The Dems deliver on this oppression construct. Especially lately. And republicans find the Oppression construct silly. We’ve got to find a way to at least pay lip service to the “oppression axis” if we want to get these votes.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 10:43 PM

Raquel Pinkbullet on March 7, 2013 at 10:06 PM

In 1992, they voted two to one for George H. W. Bush and, although they gave Bill Clinton the same margin in 1996, they were drawn back to the Republican party by George W. Bush in 2000.

And…

In the 2004 election, more than half of the Muslim vote went to Democrat John Kerry and third-party candidates.

And…

Pew Poll: Nine Out of 10 American Muslims Say They Vote Democrat, 76% Approve Of Obama’s Job Performance

It doesn’t look to me as if they were ever firmly in the conservative camp.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 10:44 PM

I was thinking of moving to AZ, but then seeing how idiots there were so easily duped into re-electing McLaim last time that is not an option at this point. How can anyone take McLaim’s well recorded liberal record by now and still think he is somehow on our side is beyond comprehension. Bridges come to mind, many of them…

I was in a car about 9 months ago listening to local conservative radio station (Las Vegas) and was more than impressed with a fill in host at the time, VERY REASONED and very well versed in all things conservative. Only to find out 20 minutes into it that this was Hayworth, the guy morons in AZ deemed “not good enough”. What a sham and what a con job perpetuated on AZ and the rest of us by so called “thinking people” that this guy lost to McLaim, we would have been so much better served on so many subjects.

But then again, I keep thinking of Linda Graham and how SC people have been screwing us all and it seems AZ people is not the only gullible crowd out there.

riddick on March 7, 2013 at 10:44 PM

Almost. There’s the three axis of politics.
Conservatives care primarily about Civilization vs Barbarism.
Libertarians care primarily about Freedom vs Coercion.
Progressives care primarily about The Oppressed vs Oppressors.

I would largely agree with this generalization with the qualifier that minorities benefit economically and socially from the Democratic approach.

Racial minorities are very concerned with “oppression” even if the are “conservative” socially and fiscally. The Dems deliver on this oppression construct. Especially lately. And republicans find the Oppression construct silly. We’ve got to find a way to at least pay lip service to the “oppression axis” if we want to get these votes.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 10:43 PM

I don’t think they are stupid enough to buy into lip service vs the real deal. They know the Democrats will deliver, and unless the Republicans can provide more than what the Democrats do, why would they support the GOP?

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 10:49 PM

I don’t know why Asians are voting leftist but I imagine it has to do with supporting leftist positions. That is why Jews, Muslims, blacks, liberals, and Hispanics vote for the left.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 10:20 PM

Like it or not, it is a widespread perception that the GOP is the party of white Christians. No surprise then that many non-whites and non-Christians don’t feel welcome in the party, even where their views tilt more to the right than left. Heck, even Jonah Goldberg recently mentioned feeling excluded by the omnipresent Christian blessing at GOP events.

cam2 on March 7, 2013 at 10:55 PM

I don’t think they are stupid enough to buy into lip service vs the real deal. They know the Democrats will deliver, and unless the Republicans can provide more than what the Democrats do, why would they support the GOP?
sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 10:49 PM

Who knows? It has never been tried, afaik. I think lip-service could go a long way. And one could still sincerely make the argument that a limited government could actually benefit everyone and lift up our nation’s “oppressed”.

Very few progressive policies actually do anything substantial for the poor and oppressed. If voters were results based i don’t think Detroit would still be firmly in the D column.

Rather, I think the problem is faking the whole “oppression” line while retaining conservative bonafides.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:09 PM

Like it or not, it is a widespread perception that the GOP is the party of white Christians. No surprise then that many non-whites and non-Christians don’t feel welcome in the party,

Being anti-white and anti-Christian is certainly cool these days, but how do you figure that this is not a confirmation of exactly what I said regarding the multicultural state disintegrating?

I am not a Christian, and I have never been one. Perhaps being raised without any faith, I don’t carry any bones to pick, but why does the presence of Christians make it understandable that other religious groups must run away? I don’t despite not believing in God.

What you are suggesting is that the permanent exclusion of anyone who is white or Christian as having any place at the table. Pandering to minorities has been made a cottage industry by the left, but that isn’t any reason to emulate it on the right.

even where their views tilt more to the right than left.

They don’t tilt to the right. Jimmy Carter was a good family man and a Christian. That doesn’t mean he tilts to the right any more than those same social values would indicate if found in a minority group…like the Hispanics who overwhelmingly support big government. Warren Buffett and Bill Gates might also be mistaken for those who would naturally tilt right, but they obviously don’t.

Heck, even Jonah Goldberg recently mentioned feeling excluded by the omnipresent Christian blessing at GOP events.

cam2 on March 7, 2013 at 10:55 PM

He is excluded from being a Christian, just as I am. The reason for that is the obvious fact that he isn’t one. Nor Am I.

So what?

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:13 PM

totherightofthem on March 7, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Actually, Comrade Dingell lost Dearborn in 2010.

8 weight on March 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

Still waiting for these driveby critics to give examples of how/why Amash is considered a loon in their eyes.

tap tap tap (fingers on desk)

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Amash would get 3 votes in my house. He would also be the first pol I’d give money to and campaign for.

8 weight on March 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM

So what?
sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:13 PM

I think the point being made is a good one. It’s not really about right vs left. That’s an archaic delineation that doesn’t really get us anywhere. The trouble the GOP has is not one of ideas or policies, IMO. It has an image problem because it doesn’t take race or “oppression” seriously.

The Dems have managed to draw a direct line between Civilization and oppressors. The whole War on Women nonsense was a beautiful illustration of this. Women aren’t being “oppressed” by not giving away free birth control! But the Dems managed to make most women believe that Romney was “oppressing” women with binders or something.

I do think that the GOP is doomed. Mainly because either we have to completely change our minds about “oppression” or vast swaths of the country are going to have to change their minds. Also extremely unlikely.

All that being said, running someone that cares primarily about Liberty and Freedom just might work because it is not directly in conflict with the Oppressed-Oppressors axis like the oft maligned Conservatism.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:26 PM

Being anti-white and anti-Christian is certainly cool these days, but how do you figure that this is not a confirmation of exactly what I said regarding the multicultural state disintegrating
* * *
What you are suggesting is that the permanent exclusion of anyone who is white or Christian as having any place at the table.

I don’t know where you live, but I think the multicultural state is thriving, not disintegrating, to the consternation of some conservatives, who are having issues sharing the table.

cam2 on March 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

Who knows? It has never been tried, afaik. I think lip-service could go a long way. And one could still sincerely make the argument that a limited government could actually benefit everyone and lift up our nation’s “oppressed”.

They don’t want what you think they want. Do you seriously believe that money is their primary concern, or would that be ‘social justice’?

Very few progressive policies actually do anything substantial for the poor and oppressed. If voters were results based i don’t think Detroit would still be firmly in the D column.

This is I think a mistake though an understandable one. If you mean in a material sense then you would be correct.

Life is more complicated. Many on the right would not vote for economic considerations before moral considerations. The nation does not engage in selling slaves for that very reason despite the potential for some profits. The left acts in a similar manner.

Social concerns and political power often feature as being more important than economic considerations. Socialism is still popular in the former eastern bloc despite a very clear understanding of what it means economically. They are not stupid in the sense of being unaware of the consequences. Rather they have other priorities in the background. Being taken care of and forcing the neighbors to remain at their level (economically/socially) feature highly in the motivations of a lot of people.

Look at controversies like the Trayvon Martin affair and the Duke rape scandal. They didn’t care what the truth was and STILL DON’T. It isn’t about the truth, or about money. It is often as simple as sticking a finger in the eye of those who are seen as the enemy.

Rather, I think the problem is faking the whole “oppression” line while retaining conservative bonafides.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:09 PM

I don’t think that is possible.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM

CANDICE MILLER
CANDICE MILLER
CANDICE MILLER
….for the win.

AmeriCuda on March 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM

It has an image problem because it doesn’t take race or “oppression” seriously.

The Dems have managed to draw a direct line between Civilization and oppressors. The whole War on Women nonsense was a beautiful illustration of this. Women aren’t being “oppressed” by not giving away free birth control! But the Dems managed to make most women believe that Romney was “oppressing” women with binders or something.

You can assume that women are really that stupid, or assume as I do that what you are seeing is rhetorical justification for taking money from Uncle Sam. They vote for government cash and get to feel righteous about it. What’s not to like from their point of view?

Your mistake is in even assuming that what they are talking about holds any real meaning.

I do think that the GOP is doomed.

I think the GOP is doomed as well, but that is due to their adopting wholesale the leftist approach to life and therefore having no ground on which to take a stand against that same ideology.

All that being said, running someone that cares primarily about Liberty and Freedom just might work because it is not directly in conflict with the Oppressed-Oppressors axis like the oft maligned Conservatism.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:26 PM

They don’t want liberty or freedom. They want the social justice and get even mentality of the leftists that they voted for. You keep assuming they don’t want what they keep voting for, and I fail to see any reason to believe that.

BTW, liberty and freedom ARE in direct conflict with feeling oppressed and put upon.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

It isn’t about the truth, or about money. It is often as simple as sticking a finger in the eye of those who are seen as the enemy.

Agreed. Is it possible to convince the self-titled oppressed that they are oppressed by the Big Government and Dems in particular?

Barring that fantasy, can the GOP deflect this and at least not be the enemy that needs his eye poked?

I think the GOP is doomed as well, but that is due to their adopting wholesale the leftist approach to life and therefore having no ground on which to take a stand against that same ideology.

So you think a vehement defense of Conservatism can win an election with the voting populace we have?

BTW, liberty and freedom ARE in direct conflict with feeling oppressed and put upon.
sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

A good point. But it is not an articulated point by Dem politicians. Their point is that Conservatives oppress you. I DO think people are stupid enough to believe this. Maybe the Freedom/Liberty guy could have a chance with this electorate.

You’ve asked the question a couple of times; if I believe people are that stupid, I just want to clarify: Yes.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Socialism is still popular in the former eastern bloc despite a very clear understanding of what it means economically. They are not stupid in the sense of being unaware of the consequences. Rather they have other priorities in the background. Being taken care of and forcing the neighbors to remain at their level (economically/socially) feature highly in the motivations of a lot of people.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM

Thank you for nailing the obvious. Once people get “free” stuff it is almost impossible to drill any common sense into them.

riddick on March 8, 2013 at 12:10 AM

They don’t want liberty or freedom. They want the social justice and get even mentality of the leftists that they voted for…BTW, liberty and freedom ARE in direct conflict with feeling oppressed and put upon.

sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

Do you realy think that Asians don’t want liberty or freedom? Why do you think they immigrated to this country? To weep and moan about oppression and get handouts? That doesn’t square with what we know demographically. As a group, Asians are better educated and have higher incomes than whites.

cam2 on March 8, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Their point is that Conservatives oppress you.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Well, yes, we do. We assume that others also want to contribute to the society instead of getting free stuff for nothing.

riddick on March 8, 2013 at 12:12 AM

Do you realy think that Asians don’t want liberty or freedom? Why do you think they immigrated to this country? To weep and moan about oppression and get handouts? That doesn’t square with what we know demographically. As a group, Asians are better educated and have higher incomes than whites.

cam2 on March 8, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Hmmm…. Do you live in GULAG (aka state of CA)? Handouts is the rule of the day. They have been conditioned to assume that government will take care of them. Why do you think they all vote Dem?

riddick on March 8, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Do you realy think that Asians don’t want liberty or freedom? Why do you think they immigrated to this country? To weep and moan about oppression and get handouts? That doesn’t square with what we know demographically. As a group, Asians are better educated and have higher incomes than whites.
cam2 on March 8, 2013 at 12:11 AM

I’d argue that there are plenty of people that empathize with the “oppressed” regardless of their education or income. It just depends on which axis is foremost as your concern. Civilization? Liberty? The Oppressed? For a huge percentage of people “the oppressed” is their first concern. This doesn’t mean that they are anti-liberty or anti-civilization, but unfortunately the policies enacted for “the oppressed” tend to infringe on liberty and give comfort to barbarism.

happytobehere on March 8, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Is it possible to convince the self-titled oppressed that they are oppressed by the Big Government and Dems in particular?

Barring that fantasy, can the GOP deflect this and at least not be the enemy that needs his eye poked?

If they aren’t oppressed and don’t have a convenient scapegoat, then who is to blame for their misfortune? Do you think providing them with a mirror is going to go over well?

They get cash and approval from big government and I can’t see how you take away their paychecks and tell them that they are the architects of their own life.

I think the GOP is doomed as well, but that is due to their adopting wholesale the leftist approach to life and therefore having no ground on which to take a stand against that same ideology.

So you think a vehement defense of Conservatism can win an election with the voting populace we have?

Not with the present voting groups as seen in the last election, but there is a huge untapped group who don’t vote and that is where we need to direct our efforts. More than 6 million stayed home in 2012 who voted for the right and there are more where they came from. They stayed home for a reason.

BTW, liberty and freedom ARE in direct conflict with feeling oppressed and put upon.
sharrukin on March 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

A good point. But it is not an articulated point by Dem politicians. Their point is that Conservatives oppress you. I DO think people are stupid enough to believe this. Maybe the Freedom/Liberty guy could have a chance with this electorate.

People are good at lying to themselves. They easily believe what they want to be true, or what they fear to be true. When it is no longer in their perceived interest to believe these things, they suddenly stop believing them.

You aren’t going to change that by trying to copy or hijack the surface form of what is essentially only a justification for what they were going to do anyway. They will still proceed with missing a beat. The GITMO situation, drones, etc is a case in point. It’s not about what they are discussing on the surface.

The unspoken leftist message is that they are going to fix your little red wagon… and your dog too. Pointing out that GITMO is still open is utterly meaningless to their ultimate intent. They don’t care…and they never cared.

You’ve asked the question a couple of times; if I believe people are that stupid, I just want to clarify: Yes.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 11:58 PM

I think that really isn’t true, but is rather a misapprehension of what their original intent was. Economics has historically always taken a back seat to social and political concerns. If Mexico voted again, they would vote for socialism. If Afghanistan voted they would vote for Sharia. Their priorities lie elsewhere.

sharrukin on March 8, 2013 at 12:25 AM

Thank you for nailing the obvious. Once people get “free” stuff it is almost impossible to drill any common sense into them.

riddick on March 8, 2013 at 12:10 AM

It is the default condition of makind for thousands of years.

sharrukin on March 8, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Handouts is the rule of the day. They have been conditioned to assume that government will take care of them. Why do you think they all vote Dem?

riddick on March 8, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Um, because they are insulted by GOPers assuming that they are moochers despite the fact that they earn more and pay more taxes than white folks?

cam2 on March 8, 2013 at 12:29 AM

Do you realy think that Asians don’t want liberty or freedom?

If they did then wouldn’t they have it?

That doesn’t square with what we know demographically. As a group, Asians are better educated and have higher incomes than whites.

cam2 on March 8, 2013 at 12:11 AM

The world is not as you believe it to be.

Obama Wins 8 of 10 Wealthiest Counties in US

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/07/fox-news-exit-poll-summary/

Among college educated voters, Obama did well. He won that group in 2008, and this time with an increase in support of two percentage points.

sharrukin on March 8, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Their priorities lie elsewhere.

sharrukin on March 8, 2013 at 12:25 AM

I didn’t mean to say that people vote with their economic self-interest in mind, or that if they don’t then they are stupid. I meant to say that people are stupid. Easily led. Easily duped. Easily lied to.

I just figured we could try to dupe some of the “oppressed” voters to vote for the GOP candidate and then govern as a Conservative. Instead of the traditional way where we dupe the Conservative voter and then govern for the “oppressed”.

Regardless, I’ve enjoyed this discussion. It has been an awfully pessimistic time. It’s fun to try and conjure a potential optimistic future for our Republic.

happytobehere on March 8, 2013 at 12:44 AM

I read the piece Allahpundit said to go read to see what Amash was up against. There was nothing that concerned me. Sounds like a libertarian type. Fine with we. The only negative quotes seemed to be that he didn’t play ball with Boehner. Oh the horror. Independents will hate him for that.

KMav on March 8, 2013 at 12:48 AM

Regardless, I’ve enjoyed this discussion. It has been an awfully pessimistic time. It’s fun to try and conjure a potential optimistic future for our Republic.

happytobehere on March 8, 2013 at 12:44 AM

I have as well. Here’s hoping for the future of the Old Republic!

sharrukin on March 8, 2013 at 12:51 AM

sharrukin on March 8, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Perhaps the problem is one of understanding — the liberty and freedoms you are thinking of may not be the ones they value. Per the recent Pew survey of Asian Americans, they view America as better that their native countries in the opportunity to get ahead, freedom to express political views, treatment of the poor, conditions for raising children, and freedom to practice religion.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/

Getting “cash and approval from big government” doesn’t seem to make the list.

Anyway, it’s been an interesting dialogue. I’m off to bed, goodnight.

cam2 on March 8, 2013 at 12:57 AM

OMG Carl Levin. Start a trend already, won’t you. Yes, let’s have massive retirements from the Senate and House. That would be great for you folks up on the Hill. What’s wrong with you all any way – haven’t you all considered how much more money you could be making for yourselves in this Booming Economy ™ that we’re having now, as opposed to slaving away on the meager government wage.

dissent555 on March 8, 2013 at 12:58 AM

The Michigan GOP NEVER had a candidate capable of beating Levin. Indeed, they fought grass roots efforts at every turn.

I hope the TEA Party can deliver what the GOP seems incapable of, a republican replacement.

BTW, there are OVER SIX GREAT ARTICLES on Breitbart.com. Why doesn’t Hot Air link to any of them?

DannoJyd on March 8, 2013 at 3:57 AM

Discussing the timing for his retirement, Levin was overheard to say..

“my damage is done here”

Not-a-Marxist on March 8, 2013 at 6:38 AM

Good riddance you depraved reprobate and enemy of liberty. May you richly reap what you have down.

tom daschle concerned on March 8, 2013 at 7:46 AM

No loss here. Will go down as a political hack that like many, stayed too long. Maybe he will volunteer his time to help Detroit. Never learned how to wear his glasses either. Hope his brother leaves too.

Amazingoly on March 8, 2013 at 7:57 AM

Good riddance, cannot stand the man. Maybe this state can elect a conservative senator….doubtful, but hey, here’s to hoping.

shar61 on March 8, 2013 at 10:30 AM

Progressives profess to care primarily about The Oppressed vs Oppressors.

happytobehere on March 7, 2013 at 10:43 PM

FIFA

totherightofthem on March 8, 2013 at 10:33 AM

Actually, Comrade Dingell lost Dearborn in 2010.

8 weight on March 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

Lucky for him he carried the remainder of his district then, isn’t it? How did he do in 2012? That’s more important today, IMO.

If you ask me, I think the turn to blue for Dearborn comes from two factors: 1)the Democrats profess to support Muslim causes and are demonstrably hostile to the state of Israel; and 2) Barack Hussein Obama is perceived to be Muslim by Muslims due to his recitation of the Shahada in perfect Arabic. Religious identity trumps all in Dearborn, I’m afraid.

totherightofthem on March 8, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Thank God!

ultracon on March 8, 2013 at 3:43 PM

I have not read any comments yet. Everything the naysayers, including the “consultants” are saying against Amash is a PLUS for him.

This will be a Nationwide race and Rove and the others, will have a WAR on their hands. The Tea Party, Palin and the American people will support him, just as they did Ted Cruz against Dewhurst.

If voter fraud is kept at bay, he’ll win this race if he decides to enter.

Out with the old and in with the New. The old GOP/Republican Establishment types are the reason this Country is in the shape it is.

If he runs, I’ll solicit money from my friends & family to support him and anything else I can do. And I’m not in Michigan.

bluefox on March 8, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Mark Levin should run for his seat.

People are so stupid they’d elect The Great One by mistake and the country would then greatly benefit from the lo-info voters’ lapse in bringing a Constitutional conservative to power.

profitsbeard on March 9, 2013 at 1:08 AM

Please take Chuck Schumer, Pelosi and Reid with you. And the rest of the other liberal idiots.

Travis1 on March 9, 2013 at 10:31 PM

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