Quotes of the day

posted at 10:21 pm on March 6, 2013 by Allahpundit

Kentucky Senator Rand Paul’s hours-long, multi-senator filibuster of John Brennan’s CIA director nomination has accomplished a rare feat: questions about targeted killing and the drone program have vaulted from the fringes to the forefront of Washington conversation, and it’s lasted nearly an entire day.

Civil libertarians have, finally, arrived.

“You would hope that the question of whether the president can on his own authority kill citizens in the U.S. would have come to the forefront as soon as it was floated,” said David Boaz, executive vice president of the libertarian Cato Institute. “But it seems like it took this particular circumstance to get people talking about it.”…

“Amazing that it’s a Republican,” Shank said.

***

Sen. Rand Paul just offered to end his filibuster and allow a vote on CIA nominee John Brennan if he could get a vote tomorrow on a non-binding resolution regarding drone killing of US citizens on US soil. But Assistant Majority Leader Dick Durbin objected to allowing a vote on the resolution. So Paul resumed speaking.

Paul’s resolution said it was the sense of the Senate that “the use of drones to execute or target American citizens on American soil who pose no imminent threat clearly violates Constitutional rights” of due process.

***

When an administration official claims that there are no viable reports of civilian casualties, belief is beggared. That’s either a lie or hopeful blindness. So many people read into the strategy have admitted casualties. And a growing number of officials, including the former Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, think parts of it are counter-productive. The former commanding general of the Joint Special Operations Command, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, is another critic. Neither opposes “targeted killing” of confirmed terrorists. Both find fault with the political-military policy that institutionalizes it.

What is that policy? No one knows. Really. We don’t. No one can explain it beyond a vague mumble about al Qaeda.

But the president is busy with other things.

He ought to change his priorities…

Obama needs to get this right. It can’t be done entirely in secret.

***

Sen. Rand Paul’s filibuster will inevitably fail at its immediate objective: derailing John Brennan’s nomination to run the CIA. But as it stretches into its sixth hour, it’s already accomplished something far more significant: raising political alarm over the extraordinary breadth of the legal claims that undergird the boundless, 11-plus-year “war on terrorism.”…

Paul sometimes seemed to object to the specific platform of drones used against Americans more than [he] did the platform-independent subject of targeted killing. But Paul actually centered his long monologue on the expansive legal claims implied by targeting Americans for due-process-free execution: “If you get on a kill list, it’s kind of hard to complain… If you’re accused of a crime, I guess that’s it. … I don’t want a politician deciding my innocence or guilt.” Paul threw in criticisms of other aspects of the war on terrorism beyond targeted killing, from widespread surveillance of Americans to the abuses of state/Homeland Security intelligence “fusion centers.”…

It would be foolish to presume that Paul’s moment in the spotlight heralds a new Senate willingness to roll back the expanses of the post-9/11 security apparatus. Rubio, for instance, stopped short of endorsing any of Paul’s substantive criticisms of the war. But Paul did manage to shift what political scientists call the Overton Window — the acceptable center of gravity of discussion…

Paul’s filibuster posed a challenge to the Senate more than it does Brennan or President Obama. “Is perpetual war OK with everybody?” he asked.

***

RAND PAUL’S STAND against John Brennan’s nomination as CIA director is doing the right thing for the wrong reason. Brennan has a reputation inside the intelligence community for “failing upward” and would likely not be a stellar DCI. But Sen. Paul’s objection — that Obama might use drones to kill Americans on U.S. soil — is actually dangerous. In reality, you want the president to be able to kill Americans who are attacking civilians without a court order. Does any body really think that Lincoln have gotten a warrant every time the confederates took a shot at federal property. Should George Washington have had to get a judge’s approval to fire on the rebels in the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion? When people take up arms against our country, they are making war on us–not engaging in criminal activity. If Sen. Paul’s prevails, they will have all of the protections of criminal law–and the public will have none of the protections of military force. Hardly a good bargain.

***

Israel’s highest court wrestled with the same issue in 2006, ruling that it was legal for the military to kill a terrorist even if that terrorist was engaged in ordinary, everyday activity, though that power was carefully circumscribed and not to be used if other means are available.

It is the function being performed by a person, not their physical distance from the battlefield (e.g. in a café), that defines that person as a combatant.

The U.S. government wants the power to target people, including U.S. citizens, who are unlawful combatants disguised as civilians. It likely has that power under the Constitution.

Sen. Paul is confusing the issue somewhat by suggesting that the government wants the power to target people who are definite non-combatants. He is right that the Constitution does not grant that power, and that individual liberties come first regardless. But he is wrong about the distinction between combatants and non-combatants, which is really the core of the problem.

***

This filibuster excites me for the same reasons — a return to the Old Ways, the ways that actually work, the way American politics is actually supposed to be conducted, with Senators offering thoughtful defenses of their positions and, above all, insisting that this nation is We the People not We the Ministers & Lesser Bureaucratic Warlords of Whatever Current Government the Public Has Had the Folly to Install In Office.

I don’t entirely agree with Rand Paul, at least if he’s arguing for an absolute bar– the Terrorist On His Way To Deliver a Working Nuke to NYC obviously (to me anyway) merits a unilateral exercise of prophylactic lethal force (assuming time won’t permit regular order to be followed).

But this filibuster is bigger even than that issue (which is itself large). This filibuster is about the basic character of a Democratic Republic, and restoring that character to good working order.

***

Tea Party groups are already rallying to the cause. The conservative group FreedomWorks issued a statement Wednesday afternoon calling for other senators to “Stand with Rand.”

The NRSC also tweeted support of the filibuster, asking followers to “stand with us…

The support of other Republicans has the potential to boost Paul’s political standing.

One of his biggest political hurdles, should he run for the presidency, is appealing to mainstream conservatives wary of his libertarian foreign policy streak. The backing of his Senate Tea Party compatriots (and others) on this high-profile filibuster could help him do just that.

***

***

But if Paul is waiting for an official White House response to his efforts, it seems he won’t be getting one anytime soon.

For now, the White House tells POLITICO, it has nothing to say.

***

***

***

Via John Sexton, from 2007:

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Bravo Senator Cruz!

Dick, your clock is now clean.

eyesky on March 7, 2013 at 12:33 AM

I was so laughing over here when I saw that LOL>

CoffeeLover on March 7, 2013 at 12:28 AM

Meh. Ad hominem fallacy is lazy, regardless of the language.

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:33 AM

PolAgnostic on March 7, 2013 at 12:27 AM

+ 100..So I see..:)

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 12:34 AM

How was dinner the other night with BG?

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:27 AM

Heh.

KCB on March 7, 2013 at 12:34 AM

Response to Dick Durbin’s point about Osama Bin Laden:
Yes, Osama made himself an imminent to our Seal team when he reached for a gun.

Please Tweet this into the Senate if any of you know anybody there.

FloatingRock on March 7, 2013 at 12:34 AM

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Not a chance. You like it.

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:35 AM

Sorry I’m late. I was on a conference call with the people at CERN. They were looking for particles.

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

This is electrifying political theater. Who can resist a courageous hero standing for their principles before the entire establishment? But how effective is it going to be, and what will result?

I think its likely that the most we can hope is the debate opened up, and parameters established for how and when a drone strike can be ordered. This is fairly new technology, and it seems reasonable and proper that rules be laid down for drone use. There are circumstances where the public would expect the president to act in the national interest, and that includes using a drone if necessary. Just as the police are empowered to call in a sniper in hostage situations in order to prevent further loss of life, so the president could order a strike on individual(s) who were about to set off a dirty bomb in an urban center, loose ricin gas in a crowded area, hijack jets and fly them into strategic targets, blow up a nuclear facility, etc. Where there would be no time for warrants, arrests, and eventual trial, a preemptive strike would be in order,and, in fact, the president and the administration are mandated to preserve and protect national security.

The problem we have is that to listen to Holder, there doesn’t have to be any concrete evidence upon which to order such a strike, and there are no set protocols or regulations for when and why a strike could be ordered. So, my hope is that what Rand Paul is fighting for is to open the debate about establishing a set of protocols to require a degree of evidence before such a strike could be ordered, and that said evidence be produced post strike. Regulation of the power to use drones, and the use of drones, seems entirely in order.

As for Rand Paul and his political aspirations, I’d say you can’t buy publicity this potent. That’s why his fellow congressmen are vying to get their faces before the cameras. I expect Rand Paul’s popularity to take a major uptick, as well as his power in congress, particularly in terms of committee seats, etc. I also think this is a moment for the GOP to consider and redefine their platform and their role.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

KCB on March 7, 2013 at 12:34 AM

);

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Hmmm, I thought he might have to call this.

Dusty on March 7, 2013 at 12:39 AM

Maybe not.

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:40 AM

It’s over.

KCB on March 7, 2013 at 12:40 AM

@BenHowe: FYI, @Sentedcruz went to both Harvard & Princeton, beat the UN in court & argued in front of SCOTUS. In terms of debate he’s a badass mofo.

idesign on March 7, 2013 at 12:30 AM

And to think the lamea$$ GOP establishment bent over backwards to try to defeat this guy in the primary over that RINO nothing Dewhurst. They all need to be taken behind the woodshed and beaten to an inch of their lives, the establishment guys.

karenhasfreedom on March 7, 2013 at 12:35 AM

From the other thread.

INC on March 7, 2013 at 12:40 AM

Bravo Rand Paul…we will remember those that did not support you.

d1carter on March 7, 2013 at 12:40 AM

I spoke too soon… :-(

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:31 AM

If you have the ability to reason, explain to me why you think that it is not a strawman to imply that Republicans do not care about civil liberties, why you think that it is not a strawman to compare a citizen sitting at a cafe to an army in open rebellion, why you think that it is not a strawman to compare that csame citizen sitting in a cafe to a combatant engaged in conflict against the USA, and why you think that it is not a strawman to compare that citizen to someone with a nuke, carrying it to NYC?

I am anxiously awaiting your, no doubt, spectacular reasoning.

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

QOTD amazingly full of strawmen today. Well, not really all that amazing. That is the only way that these clowns know how to argue anymore. Yet somehow they consider themselves the smart ones. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so infuriating.

besser tot als rot on March 6, 2013 at 11:56 PM

I did not see any strawmen…

I stand by what I said…

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

12:39AM….Kudos to Rand Paul

CoffeeLover on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Crap

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Thank you Senator Paul.

KCB on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

What the heck just happened?

First I lost the CSPAN internet feed and now their voting?

PolAgnostic on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

+ 100..Excellent comment..Hear!..Hear!..:)

PS..Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

I stand around waiting for Scrumps.

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Meh. Ad hominem fallacy is lazy, regardless of the language.

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:33 AM

So is your moniker…

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:42 AM

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Good evening, Spark. :) Please give the nice people at CERN their particles back. They’ve been looking all over for them. :)

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:42 AM

The problem we have is that to listen to Holder,
thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

That’s a violation of the Geneva Convention by itself.

gh on March 7, 2013 at 12:43 AM

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Good evening, Dire! Very good to see you. I’m glad you approve. :)

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:43 AM

Oh wow! well done Senator Paul!

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:44 AM

I did not see any strawmen…
I stand by what I said…
Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

I quoted them and outlined them for you above.

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:44 AM

What the heck just happened?

First I lost the CSPAN internet feed and now their voting?

[PolAgnostic on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM]

They just cleaned up after Rand yielded the floor so that he could hit the head. They’ve adjourned until tomorrow at 10AM.

Dusty on March 7, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Why stand when you can sit :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

Man o Man, tell me that wasn’t refreshing for a change. Blue Buddha!!!

Bmore on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

Chrissy.

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

How was dinner the other night with BG?

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:27 AM

Oral ? !

KOOLAID2 on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM
Why stand when you can sit :-)
Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

You can sit.

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:46 AM

gh on March 7, 2013 at 12:43 AM

LOL! I agree. Every time I see the guy, and he’s always talking, or read some statement he’s made, it sets my teeth on edge.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:46 AM

Sorry I’m late. I was on a conference call with the people at CERN. They were looking for particles.

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Tell them to look on the floor next to their favorite chair, that’s where the particles usually end up falling…. o_O

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 12:47 AM

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

I am not in a spectacular mood sorry to disappoint…

Perhaps another day eh?

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:47 AM

While I’m thrilled by this it’s also a bit sad that many of you are so joyful at seeing an actual man act like a damned man. Paul, unlike the majority of the population, has not been deballed; Cruz either.

For those of you under 50, this is how men acted all the time- everyday.

Unfortunately for us all he will soon be crashed by his own with the tired cries: “what about
Israel? What about Israel?”

frank on March 7, 2013 at 12:47 AM

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:46 AM

I am and quite comfortably!!

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:48 AM

Damn.

Robert_Paulson on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

frank on March 7, 2013 at 12:47 AM

No he won’t. He’s not his father and he has been very good on israel.

gh on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

One of the nicest little perks from Rand Paul’s stand is that it’s throwing the LEFT into a panic, and has already exposed an enormous rift right down the middle of their ranks.

Soon, the trolls will find themselves in a complete state of confusion, unsure what side of the argument, or which talking points, they should be repeating. LOL.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Why stand when you can sit :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

We can dance stand if we want to

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

OT: FWIW, I live in SW Ohio. My local daily (The Cincinnati Enquirer) ran an op-ed a day or two ago by a GOP toad from Northern Kentucky who was moaning about how the Tea Party had screwed up so many Senate races for the GOP in the past few years and how the Tea Party was putting the heat on McConnell.

If it weren’t for the Tea Party in KY, the GOP primary would have yielded a young, well-connected, unimpressive establishmente turd named Trey Greyson. And I’m not sure Greyson would have defeated the Democratic candidate, because he had very little enthusiasm behind him.

Oddly enough, some of the upcoming GOP stars are currently on display in the Senate–Paul, Cruz, Lee, Rubio, Toomey (only missing Ron Johnson, for now). Go Young Senate Guns.

BuckeyeSam on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Bmore on March 7, 2013 at 12:45 AM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 12:50 AM

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Tell them to look on the floor next to their favorite chair, that’s where the particles usually end up falling…. o_O

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 12:47 AM

Thanks. I Better do it before the custodian cleans up all the particles and puts them in the dumpster.

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 12:51 AM

How would you pronounce qit?

Would it sound like Kit?

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 12:51 AM

220 images complete on the 0 green series.

Good job all that supported the Buddha! Special thanks to Ted Cruz! Buddha!Buddha!Buddha!Buddha!Buddha!Buddha!Buddha!Buddha!

Good Night All.

Bmore on March 7, 2013 at 12:51 AM

KA2! Can you come to the gulch for a moment…

I have a question :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Well that was fun and a lot of ground was covered besides drone attacks on citizens within the country. Time to hit the hay and I dedicate my forty winks tonight to Sen. Rand Paul in appreciation for finally being the one to push back against our narcissistic autocrat.

Cindy Munford on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Evening Jackie – always question the premise. This gang don’t mean well for the US.

Matthews considers all who side with Rand Paul today “hateful”.

Imagine that.

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Bmore on March 7, 2013 at 12:51 AM

Good Night Bmore!! Great work!

God Bless you :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 12:50 AM

Night Dire. ; )

Bmore on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Soon, the trolls will find themselves in a complete state of confusion, unsure what side of the argument, or which talking points, they should be repeating. LOL.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Unfortunately, total confusion and cognitive dissonance are the natural states of the fevered leftist mind. They aren’t bothered by this one bit. To leftists, it’s home … just as always.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on March 7, 2013 at 12:53 AM

Hi folks. just jumped over from the filibuster. I was there from the start to the finish. I am so proud of the 10 who stood behind Rand which includes 1 dem from OR by the way. My state was represented by Sen Barasso and I will reward him with an e-mail tomorrow. Much was accomplished and I think we have turned the corner. The tide is receeding and the one is sliding down into the depths of hell. My contribution for tonight from——–who else Pink Floyd

A Great Day For Freedom.

http://youtu.be/7HmC-RgTECE

Fred

jrsrigmvr on March 7, 2013 at 12:53 AM

Soon, the trolls will find themselves in a complete state of confusion, unsure what side of the argument, or which talking points, they should be repeating. LOL.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

They’re always little Axelturds.

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 12:53 AM

gh on March 7, 2013 at 12:43 AM

LoLz..Good one..:)

Dire Straits on March 7, 2013 at 12:53 AM

Bmore, lots of good work. You must be having fun.

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 12:54 AM

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

The left is not in a panic. They will go back to their old ways as soon as the dust settles. The best we can hope for out of this is that Paul has weakened Obama at a critical time and that it will slow him down a bit. Hillary looms … there are far too many on the right who were touting her as “acceptable” compared to Obama in 2008 … or Cuomo.

gh on March 7, 2013 at 12:54 AM

Cindy Munford on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Good night Cindy!! God Bless…

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:55 AM

BuckeyeSam on March 7, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Sen. Johnson had some late but great hits against The Won for the lack of a budget and the Senate for not addressing Bills passed by the House. It was short but oh so sweet.

Cindy Munford on March 7, 2013 at 12:55 AM

One of the Kansas senators did his job today, but the other one did not. Why not?

cptacek on March 7, 2013 at 12:56 AM

KA2! Can you come to the gulch for a moment…

I have a question :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

…opps ….yep….just saw it

KOOLAID2 on March 7, 2013 at 12:57 AM

So is your moniker…

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:42 AM

Wow. That doesn’t even make any sense. You’ve totally devolved into taunts that were lame at 10 years old. The sad irony is that I was defending Rand Paul, from lame media mischaracterizations, which you’d probably have agreed with if you had actually paid attention (FYI – QOTD refers to, you know, the quotes of the day, not your comments about them). Whatever.

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:59 AM

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:59 AM

Well I didn’t so sorry, and if I misread you I apologise also…

I skimmed it…

I shall go back later and read them all!!

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:00 AM

Nice job of Rand to wrap it up before any stragglers could show up.

Great to hear him acknowledge Cassius Clay a well.

can_con on March 7, 2013 at 1:01 AM

KOOLAID2 on March 7, 2013 at 12:57 AM

Thanks. I got it now :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:02 AM

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 12:46 AM
I am and quite comfortably!!
Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 12:48 AM

Then I’m.
Not needed.

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 1:02 AM

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM

LOL! Yes… Matthews and his kind will continue spewing their venom, but, as an aide for Senator Coburn reflected about the administrations attempt to play up the sequester and make political capital from it, saying that they had finally ‘jumped the sharkquester’… so, too, has Matthews and his kind been to the well one time too many. Their message has been monotonous for the last five years. Eventually even the majority of the left will no longer hear them. We see the beginning. the very inception, of that separation of the left into to very different camps today. There will soon be more separation into specific groups as that coalition falls apart. It’s in the DNA of the left to be separate and specific special interest groups. Now they begin to draw lines between themselves. I think this is one of the most important developments of the day.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:03 AM

Scrumpy, with lots of respect, besser tot als rot is a good person and the nom is one of the best.

There are few people who’d dare have such a nom, and even fewer who’d be courageous enough to live it. I’m convinced, from many interactions and observations that btar actually does.

The two of you good ones should consider ‘making up’ and forgetting that this all happened (your exchanges).

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 1:03 AM

besser tot als rot on March 7, 2013 at 12:59 AM

Put it down to my being tired and needing new glasses etc… :-)

I don’t normally skip reading the qotd’s…

Tonight I did.

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:04 AM

http://youtu.be/-jEUq3hEjus

here ya go jackie

Fred

jrsrigmvr on March 7, 2013 at 1:04 AM

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 1:03 AM

Thanks Schad, I am trying to make up for my egregious error!

I hope my apology is accepted…

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:05 AM

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:03 AM

I’m not hopeful about them, having witnessed their insanity for years, with their zenith of the very last, but may you be totally right!

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 1:06 AM

The problem we have is that to listen to Holder, there doesn’t have to be any concrete evidence upon which to order such a strike, and there are no set protocols or regulations for when and why a strike could be ordered. So, my hope is that what Rand Paul is fighting for is to open the debate about establishing a set of protocols to require a degree of evidence before such a strike could be ordered, and that said evidence be produced post strike. Regulation of the power to use drones, and the use of drones, seems entirely in order.

As for Rand Paul and his political aspirations, I’d say you can’t buy publicity this potent. That’s why his fellow congressmen are vying to get their faces before the cameras. I expect Rand Paul’s popularity to take a major uptick, as well as his power in congress, particularly in terms of committee seats, etc. I also think this is a moment for the GOP to consider and redefine their platform and their role.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:36 AM

My dearest Jackie, please do not misunderstand this, the “drone” is a canard. The issue at hand has little if anything to do with Drone Technology, and everything in the world with the concept of the POTUS having the authority to order an individual’s execution without following any due process what so ever.

Drones are merely mobile unmanned platforms. Nothing more and nothing less. Drones do nothing of their own volition, like a rifle or pistol, to cannot act on their own, someone has to command them to take action.

The significance of the Drone is not what it can do, but what it’s operator can do. In this specific case, what the operator can be authorized to do, and to whom.

A Drone taking out a terrorist, or suspected terrorists is no different than a sniper in a conventional helicopter. If the POTUS orders a sniper in a helicopter to kill a suspected terrorist who presents no clear and present danger, than both the POTUS and the sniper involved have committed first degree murder, likewise, if the POTUS orders a Drone operator to kill a suspected terrorist who presents no clear and present danger, it is a case of straight up first degree murder.

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

jrsrigmvr on March 7, 2013 at 1:04 AM

Good evening, Fred! Great to see you. :) That’s a great tune. Thank you. :)

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

):

Rusty Allen on March 7, 2013 at 1:08 AM

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

Walker, with all due respect. Don’t was pedantic.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:08 AM

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:05 AM

One reason why you’re such a great lady, among so many reasons. You are nice, good and forgiving, and not afraid to be wrong. Good on you.

brat will be as gracious, no doubt.

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM

Schad and Bmore,

Please convey my sincere apology to besser tot als rot…

I think he/she has left… :-(

I feel like such a heel now…

It’s been a long day for me…

I shall say good night and God Bless to you all!!

Bye for now :-)

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

Quite correct.

However, they probably do also want the drones for domestic surveillance. I think this may be why they are so reluctant to concede an inch and it might explain Holder’s evasions before the committee … though he is always like that.

gh on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

Update: Petraeus and Benghazi

VorDaj on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 12:42 AM

Well I was trying to sell them on eBay but no one wants particles these days so I’ll give them back, hopefully I’ll get a reward for being so honest about my lying.

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:08 AM

Sorry… that was ‘wax’ pedantic.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

Current TV/Al Jazeera Lawsuit

Al Gore is sued over Current TV sale to Al-Jazeera. Former Current TV staffer claims he took the idea to network board members, and expected to be paid if the idea was used.

Resist We Much on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM

Thank you so much!!

I wasn’t very nice…trying day tho no excuse…

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:13 AM

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

I’m certain they’ll be delighted with the particles return and with you for being such a sterling citizen and returning them. :)

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:13 AM

My dearest Jackie, please do not misunderstand this, the “drone” is a canard. The issue at hand has little if anything to do with Drone Technology, and everything in the world with the concept of the POTUS having the authority to order an individual’s execution without following any due process what so ever.

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

And Mister Judge-Jury-and-Executioner now has over a billion hollow points and over 2,700 light tanks, and who really knows what else, for his personal DHS army.

VorDaj on March 7, 2013 at 1:15 AM

Hi Scrumpydoodles. Ken was staring at your booty. I would have caught him sooner but I was staring at Jackie’s booty.

SparkPlug on March 7, 2013 at 1:17 AM

Scrumpy on March 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM

Please don’t worry any further. btar will read eventually and get back to you.

We all have done this. It will pass, with the world still spinning tomorrow.

Sleep/rest well fair lady.

Schadenfreude on March 7, 2013 at 1:18 AM

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

Quite correct.

However, they probably do also want the drones for domestic surveillance. I think this may be why they are so reluctant to concede an inch and it might explain Holder’s evasions before the committee … though he is always like that.

gh on March 7, 2013 at 1:11 AM

The police have been using drones in the United States for surveillance for a long time. They stated using Drones back in the 60′s. However, those drones have never been armed. Back when I was a teenager (ya, but a zillions years ago) in the 70′s I did contract work for a company here in San Diego called Topaz Industries, I wrote code for them, code for police surveillance drones.

Technically it is illegal to place an armed drone in American Air Space. Though from a legal standpoint, the operator of a drone is the exact same as a armed individual, fully culpable for the actions that they take.

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:19 AM

jrsrigmvr on March 7, 2013 at 12:53 AM

Hey neighbor

Jackalope on March 7, 2013 at 1:21 AM

VorDaj on March 7, 2013 at 1:15 AM

My comment was all about establishing safeguards and protocols to restrict that authority, but, being a realist, I have to also admit that there are circumstances when the public would not only condone the use of drones and/or the authority to act, but would demand it. Therefore, we are best served laying out the protocols and regulations under which such action would be allowed, and setting up those ‘watchdogs’ to be certain that those regulations and protocol were observed to the letter.

Also, if you note, in my comment I laid out several instances that I think we can all agree would qualify as a ‘clear and present danger’. In no instance did I support simply killing first and asking questions later, or the unchecked authority to kill anyone.

thatsafactjack on March 7, 2013 at 1:22 AM

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:07 AM

And Mister Judge-Jury-and-Executioner now has over a billion hollow points and over 2,700 light tanks, and who really knows what else, for his personal DHS army.

VorDaj on March 7, 2013 at 1:15 AM

But but but… Ed says that the governments ammo purchases are totally innocent and you are just a conspiracy theorist…. O_O

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

Jeepers! PATREUS!

http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/2435/Update-Petraeus-and-Benghazi.aspx

Sources said the emails revealed heavy editing by then-CIA Director David Petraeus. The talking points evolved as they were passed around various intelligence and security hubs, and scrubbed of language referring to “al Qa’ida.” They also seemed to indicate an effort to paint the Sept. 11 attack as a demonstration and not a planned attack, the source said.

“The word ‘attacks’ was changed to ‘demonstration,’” the source said.

h/t to vordaj

can_con on March 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

Jackalope on March 7, 2013 at 1:21 AM

How so?

Fred

jrsrigmvr on March 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

SWalker on March 7, 2013 at 1:19 AM

That is news to me … I thought modern drones were invented in the 1990s by the israelis … I’ve been wrong before. However, it rings a bell.

gh on March 7, 2013 at 1:24 AM

Barack Obama can not possible want to eradicate anyone. This implicit melodious slander against our Dear Leader is totally unacceptable. In addition to being the world’s greatest golfer, and having to overcome on a daily basis all the media’s withering barrage of tough questioning into his every move made in the past, present or in the future, our brilliant Dear Leader now has a halo over his head. I know he does because I saw it on the cover of Newsweek magazine and Newsweek magazine would never lie. I have never heard of such an absurd thing before as someone with a halo over his head being the least bit vindictive.

Additionally our beloved Dear Leader was education at the very finest universities where he excelled in reeling and writhing, of course, to begin with and then all the different branches of arithmetic: ambition, distraction, falsification and derision with additional courses in Karl Marx and Napoleon Bonaparte, with history washing for extra credit. Always trust Dear Leader Emperor Barack Hussein Louie Hugo Benito Isuzu Obama the Magnificent in everything he says and does even if the connection between what he says and does is not apparent to your lowly mind.

Our beloved Dear Leader wouldn’t be doing what he is doing to whom he is doing it if he didn’t know where he was at when he was doing it or he wouldn’t be where he was at if he didn’t know what he was doing and to whom he was doing it to. If he kills you with a drone, it’s only because it’s for your own good.

Cheshire Cat on March 7, 2013 at 1:24 AM

jrsrigmvr on March 7, 2013 at 1:23 AM

Barasso is my senator too

Jackalope on March 7, 2013 at 1:26 AM

Cheshire Cat on March 7, 2013 at 1:24 AM

Very nice. And Kim Jong Un ?

gh on March 7, 2013 at 1:27 AM

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