Tom Coburn: No deal on background checks if Democrats demand record-keeping of gun sales

posted at 3:21 pm on February 25, 2013 by Allahpundit

Here’s the first hard evidence we’ve seen that the big meeting of the minds on guns that the media’s been touting might be overhyped. Plain and simple, says Coburn, if Democrats demand that records of private gun sales be kept, the compromise is dead.

But wait. Kept by who? By the seller, or by the federal government?

A Senate aide familiar with the process said Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace erred in the question he posed to Coburn. The aides said there is no discussion of allowing the federal government to keep any records of background checks or sales, something that is already illegal and would not change. What is being proposed is having the seller retain a record of a private sale, just as a dealer does now for a sale that happens at a licensed gun store, the aide said.

It’s true, Wallace does seem to think that the Democratic plan would involve the feds retaining records of gun sales. If that wasn’t being kicked around in negotiations, you’d expect Coburn to correct him — but he doesn’t. Does that mean Wallace is stating the Democratic position correctly, much to the chagrin of Schumer et al. who’d prefer to keep that quiet while negotiations are ongoing? Or is Coburn saying he opposes expanded record-keeping of any kind, whether by the feds or otherwise?

WaPo makes it sound like the records would be kept by a private entity, not by the government, but it’s uncertain which private entity that might be:

Democrats say that keeping records of private sales is necessary to enforce any new law and because current federal law requires licensed firearm dealers to keep records. Records of private sales also would help law enforcement trace back the history of a gun used in a crime, according to Democratic aides. Republicans, however, believe that records of private sales could put an undue burden on gun owners or could be perceived by gun rights advocates as a precursor to a national gun registry…

Senators are considering whether to establish a new online portal where buyers and sellers could conduct the background check or to allow federally licensed gun retailers like Wal-Mart or Dick’s Sporting Goods to charge a small fee to conduct background checks for private dealers, aides said. A record of the sale then could be turned over to a licensed retailer, sent to the gun’s manufacturer or kept by the seller.

Hopefully Coburn will clarify today. Exit question: Assuming that they do reach a deal, what are the odds that it passes the House? I thought a bill on background checks would make it through simply because there’s such heavy polling support for expanding checks, but new Judiciary Committee chair Bob Goodlatte sounds lukewarm about that. He wants to improve the current background-check system, not expand it to private gun sales.


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Separated at birth: Tom Coburn and Jazz Shaw.

Ed Morrissey on February 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM

I guess I don’t understand why there is even a deal to be had. Just another example of legislating just for the sake of legislating. The 2nd amendment pretty much spells it out for you and aside from provisions for mentally ill, felons, etc… I don’t really see any room for improvement.

Brad on February 25, 2013 at 3:26 PM

WaPo makes it sound like the records would be kept by a private entity, not by the government, but it’s uncertain which private entity that might be:

In Utopia, there is no private entity.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:27 PM

He wants to improve the current background-check system

Improve it how? It feels like the “we have to do SOMETHING” approach. It’s all scary.

Hat Trick on February 25, 2013 at 3:27 PM

I think it would be good if Coburn served one more time. I’m not opposed to term limits, self-imposed or otherwise. I just think it is fine for Senators to serve three terms.

thuja on February 25, 2013 at 3:28 PM

Will any of the Republicans in Congress EVER grow a pair?
Why the need to compromise at all on gun control?
Just so NO to INFRINGING on the 2nd Amendment.
What part of “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” do these people (even the Republicans) not understand?

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 3:29 PM

They are just doing this for the benefit of the people. Being able to track back the history of a weapon, like billy the kids guns, makes them more valuable! /sarc

astonerii on February 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Separated at birth: Tom Coburn and Jazz Shaw.

Ed Morrissey on February 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM

LOL

JusDreamin on February 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM

In Utopia, there is no private entity.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:27 PM

But there are all sorts of non-profits doing double fun unicorn farting good! And wonderful, witty, wise womyn work at those non-profits!

thuja on February 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM

On an unrelated note. A sitting current Congressman with facial hair! We need to bring back the bearded and mustachioed Congress of the mid to late 1800′s!

Logus on February 25, 2013 at 3:31 PM

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Even Ford Prefect knows the second amendment has been infringed almost from the time it went into effect.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM

“we have to do SOMETHING”

Fast! Even if it’s the wrong thing!

JoeinTX on February 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM

Are we really supposed to believe that the same State that tells us what our toilet-flow is going to be, in our own homes, what lightbulbs we will use, what our “smart” thermostats will allow us, for heating and air conditioning, and what healthcare we’ll be allowed -

has no interest in also telling us what firearms will be allowed in our homes?

EVERYTHING that the Left is trying to do, regarding firearms, is for the purpose of disarming the People.

EVERYTHING.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM

On an unrelated note. A sitting current Congressman with facial hair! We need to bring back the bearded and mustachioed Congress of the mid to late 1800′s!

Logus on February 25, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Here’s a Senator with a mustache!

thuja on February 25, 2013 at 3:34 PM

They are just doing this for the benefit of the people. Being able to track back the history of a weapon, like billy the kids guns, makes them more valuable! /sarc

astonerii on February 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Maybe some day historians and gun collectors will use the national registry to trace back the original ownership of the guns that were at the center of the 2nd American Revolution over the 2nd Amendment….

Hypothetically of course – for any Civilian National Security Forces personnel who might be monitoring this site….

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Tom Coburn: No deal on background checks if Democrats demand record-keeping of gun sales

Hey Coburn about you start by going to heII if their is any deal on background checks at all.

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:36 PM

On an unrelated note. A sitting current Congressman with facial hair! We need to bring back the bearded and mustachioed Congress of the mid to late 1800′s!

Logus on February 25, 2013 at 3:31 PM

The beard really works on Coburn. He looks like an extra from Downton Abbey.

Illinidiva on February 25, 2013 at 3:36 PM

Even Ford Prefect knows the second amendment has been infringed almost from the time it went into effect.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM

But hey, DON’T PANIC!

Del Dolemonte on February 25, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Just another media tool effort to generate and steer their narrative.

They will build up the false narrative that a deal is imminent. When it fails, they will blame Republican partisanship for obstructing “common sense measures”.

They know none of this nonsense will reduce crime. The goal is to erode and limit the rights of the law-abiding to own guns, one step at a time. This situation provides a chance to bash Republicans at the same time.

The inevitable failure of these measures to reduce crime is a feature, not a bug, to the gun control crowd. Failure is merely proof that they didn’t restrict Second Amendment rights sufficiently, and further restrictions are necessary.

The media tools are absolutely complicit in this strategy.

Of course the gun control proponents intend to create a registry. If not now, they will soon discover that just the so-called “Universal Background Checks” haven’t reduced crime. At that point it will be obvious that registration is necessary, and what do you know? Much of the necessary bureaucracy will already be in place!

novaculus on February 25, 2013 at 3:38 PM

No worries, O.F.A. will make a lucrative offer to buy the data from the gun dealers…

hillsoftx on February 25, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Del Dolemonte on February 25, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I never do. Its counterproductive.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Separated at birth: Tom Coburn and Jazz Shaw.

Ed Morrissey on February 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM

What? Are you suggesting that Jazz is a traitorous fool who would sell his mothers soul to the devil for a promise to be paid some date in the future?

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Plain and simple, says Coburn, if Democrats demand that records of private gun sales be kept, the compromise is dead.

Even without the record-keeping this idea of expanding the “background” checks is insane and stupid … and I don’t trust this feral government not to keep records, no matter what the law says.

Coburn never should have even been talking with dems about this asinine idea. That was his first mistake. Why won’t the GOP learn? Barky and the dems are liars and snakes. They never operate in good faith and can’t be trusted for anything so there is never any reason to talk with them unless it is something that has to be done – and destroying the 2nd amendment because some nutcase shot up a school is not something that “has to be done”. Just the reason that these slimy dems are pushing un-Constitutional gun control right now should be enough to let Coburn know that they are not to be talked with. Dems are to be treated like the diseased, demented pariahs that they are.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 25, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Are we really supposed to believe that the same State that tells us what our toilet-flow is going to be, in our own homes, what lightbulbs we will use, what our “smart” thermostats will allow us, for heating and air conditioning, and what healthcare we’ll be allowed -

has no interest in also telling us what firearms will be allowed in our homes?

EVERYTHING that the Left is trying to do, regarding firearms, is for the purpose of disarming the People.

EVERYTHING.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM

That absolutely needed to be said again.

Washington Nearsider on February 25, 2013 at 3:41 PM

EVERYTHING that the Left is trying to do, regarding firearms, is for the purpose of disarming the People.

EVERYTHING.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:32 PM

“Always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – for ever.”

― George Orwell, 1984

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Even without the record-keeping this idea of expanding the “background” checks is insane and stupid …

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 25, 2013 at 3:41 PM

Not to mention impossible to enforce. And possibly unconstitutional.

Another stupid pie in the sky proposal.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 3:44 PM

Another stupid pie in the sky proposal.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 3:44 PM

So you are saying, it will pass, complete with permanent records storage… O_O

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:45 PM

In Utopia, there is no private entity.

OhEssYouCowboys
on February 25, 2013 at 3:27 PM

.
But there are all sorts of non-profits doing double fun unicorn farting good! And wonderful, witty, wise womyn work at those non-profits!

thuja on February 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM

.
Translation: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

listens2glenn on February 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:45 PM

I wouldn’t doubt anything these socialist totalitarian tried to do.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 3:47 PM

Go see the original Red Dawn or ask your local gun shop owner what happens when ATF shows up to see those “privately held documents”.

Guess who gets those 4473′s when the FFL goes out of business? Yup, your friendly ATF agents. They go into their national database. (The one that the NRA has sued multiple times to eliminate. ATF loses the lawsuit and rebuilds the database. After all, you do understand that laws don’t apply to people with little gold badges, and Democrat politicians, don’t you?)

CrazyGene on February 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM

What? Are you suggesting that Jazz is a traitorous fool who would sell his mothers soul to the devil for a promise to be paid some date in the future?

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Uh. Have you ever read anything posted by Jazz?

besser tot als rot on February 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM

What? Are you suggesting that Jazz is a traitorous fool who would sell his mothers soul to the devil for a promise to be paid some date in the future?

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:39 PM

Uh. Have you ever read anything posted by Jazz?

besser tot als rot on February 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM

A) Yes, I read Jazz all the time

B) I like Jazz

C) If you actually needed a sarc tag for the… Well I got nothin…

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 3:51 PM

WaPo makes it sound like the records would be kept by a private entity, not by the government, but it’s uncertain which private entity that might be

…we know how inept the government is…this way the government can SEIZE accurate records… from a private business for one manufactured reason or another!

KOOLAID2 on February 25, 2013 at 3:52 PM

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 3:42 PM

A magnificent and salient quote.

Orwell is one of my favorites.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Separated at birth: Tom Coburn and Jazz Shaw.

Ed Morrissey on February 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM

All us old white guys with gray hair, glasses and goatees look alike. I quit wearing my black Stetson after seeing a pic of Jazz.

novaculus on February 25, 2013 at 3:54 PM

WaPo makes it sound like the records would be kept by a private entity, not by the government, but it’s uncertain which private entity that might be

…we know how inept the government is…this way the government can SEIZE accurate records… from a private business for one manufactured reason or another!

KOOLAID2 on February 25, 2013 at 3:52 PM

They wouldn’t have to seize anything.
My Romney $10K note says the company that gets the contract will be a Dem crony manned with Dem union thugs. The Dem politicians will have total access right from the start.

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 3:56 PM

On Feb. 25 & 26, make ‘Five Phone Calls for Freedom’
http://www.grnc.org/grnc-alerts-archive/424-grnc-alert-2-21-13-fight-pending-attack-by-obama-radicals
1. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell at 202-224-2541

2. House Speaker John Boehner at 202-225-0600

3. Senator Richard Burr at 202-224-3154

4. Senator Kay Hagan at 202-224-6342

5. Your representative to the U.S. House. To identify your US House representative, go to: http://www.house.gov/representatives/ and then enter your zip code in the upper right corner of the page.

Nothing about the federal proposals is acceptable – not banning semi-automatic firearms and magazines, not expanding the list of people prohibited from owning guns, and not registering private gun sales via the National Instant Check System.

Southern by choice22 on February 25, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Gotta ask – Is that Polish Rifle a) Polish like the sausage or b) Polish as in smooth and shiny?
;)

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

So about this registry…

Kept in a database somewhere? Subject to getting hacked by the Chinese Army?

Color me uninterested.

JohnTant on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

JohnTant on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

It will be kept with the current registry, possessed by every FFL seller.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Nothing about the federal proposals is acceptable – not banning semi-automatic firearms and magazines, not expanding the list of people prohibited from owning guns, and not registering private gun sales via the National Instant Check System.
Southern by choice22 on February 25, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Unfortunately, we’ve also got our own state level problems here in Colorado to deal with.

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:01 PM

A magnificent and salient quote.

Orwell is one of my favorites.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Same here friend. I just read it again, and now I’m re-reading Animal Farm…

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

So about this registry…

Kept in a database somewhere? Subject to getting hacked by the Chinese Army?

Color me uninterested.

JohnTant on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

HeII, I’m more worried about it being hacked by the US Government.

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

And when the private firearms dealer goes bankruupt, who keeps the records then? I think we are back to the government brown shirts again. Hmmm. I see another librul “appelate judge” has ruled that concealed carry is NOT constitutionally protected. These bbbusttards* never stop.

*See Robert Penn Warren for the expression.

Old Country Boy on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Like the sausage… And my heritage to be precise!

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:03 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Same here friend. I just read it again, and now I’m re-reading Animal Farm…

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

What? reading the whitehouse website? That will only lead to grief…

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:03 PM

CrazyGene on February 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM

I am aware of multiple reports of BATFE agents scanning every 4473 in a dealer’s books during “inspections”.

When it comes to the unlawful compilation of gun records, the BATFE’s track record demand they be considered guilty until proven innocent.

These people are corrupt and incompetent. They would illegally compile the records, use them unlawfully or leak them if it served their purposes, and couldn’t be trusted to protect them from hackers.

novaculus on February 25, 2013 at 4:04 PM

HeII, I’m more worried about it being hacked by the US Government.

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

I’m pretty sure it is not computerized, by federal regulation.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Same here friend. I just read it again, and now I’m re-reading Animal Farm…

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

What? reading the whitehouse website? That will only lead to grief…

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:03 PM

What is the difference between Animal Farm and the Whitehouse Website you ask? Well for one, Animal Farm has a happier ending… o_O

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM

So about this registry…
Kept in a database somewhere? Subject to getting hacked by the Chinese Army?
Color me uninterested.

JohnTant on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

The Chinese military won’t need to hack it – not that our gubmint could or would stop them anyway.
The Dems will hand over the registry along with the keys to the country as soon as we’re perfectly ripe for the picking as the socialist utopia colony China has paid for….

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

And the US government ends up with every FFL sellers book any way.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM

No, no, a thousand times no.

Bob's Kid on February 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM

Regarding the 1984 quotes, I liken it to taking repeated MMA uppercuts to the testicles. The Oceania of 1984 is frighteningly believable, and Room 101 holds your biggest fears – to be used against you to utterly shatter your spirit, remove your humanity, and fasten the iron collar securely around your gullet.

And there it is… fear. Precisely what this jackass is peddling.

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM

Nothing about the federal proposals is acceptable – not banning semi-automatic firearms and magazines, not expanding the list of people prohibited from owning guns, and not registering private gun sales via the National Instant Check System.
Southern by choice22 on February 25, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Unfortunately, we’ve also got our own state level problems here in Colorado to deal with.

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Yes, I know – liberty is under attack at every level.

Southern by choice22 on February 25, 2013 at 4:08 PM

JohnTant on February 25, 2013 at 3:59 PM

The Chinese military won’t need to hack it – not that our gubmint could or would stop them anyway.
The Dems will hand over the registry along with the keys to the country as soon as we’re perfectly ripe for the picking as the socialist utopia colony China has paid for….

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM

I have a fairly simple solution to that problem, all it requires is some Stout Hemp Rope, Streetlamps and Democrats… (Batteries not included, your mileage may vary, and some assembly required)

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:08 PM

Regarding the 1984 quotes, I liken it to taking repeated MMA uppercuts to the testicles. The Oceania of 1984 is frighteningly believable, and Room 101 holds your biggest fears – to be used against you to utterly shatter your spirit, remove your humanity, and fasten the iron collar securely around your gullet.

And there it is… fear. Precisely what this jackass is peddling.

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:07 PM

I need to read it again, it’s been a long time.
But I’m afraid now I would see far too much of the real world in it, and it would scare the he!! out of me – not good for my blood pressure.
Of course, sometimes this site does that to me….

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:13 PM

You can bet your a$$ that Imp Chuck Schumer wants record keeping by the Feds for registration purposes. I trust that man less than I trust Obama. The dude seriously looks like he’s possessed by a demonic entity. Man has no soul.

jawkneemusic on February 25, 2013 at 4:13 PM

I’m pretty sure it is not computerized, by federal regulation.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM

You’re aware that the BATFE was caught doing exactly that, in contravention of federal law? When they got caught, Congress cut their funding by the amount they were spending on it. They openly compile former licensee’s records, saying it doesn’t violate the law because they are former dealers records, not current dealer records they are prohibited from compiling.

Anyone who is confident that the BATFE isn’t already illegally compiling every record they can is simply naive.

novaculus on February 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Maybe a dealer could clarify this for me:

An FFL dealer must maintain and complete an A & D record (Acquisition and Disposition) for each firearm transaction.

According to the ATF: Required Disposition Information
For each firearm you sell or otherwise dispose of, you must completely and accurately record the following information in your bound book:
The date of sale or other disposition of the firearm;1.
The name and address of the non-licensee or the 2. name and FFL license number of the licensee to whom the firearm was transferred.
Alternatively, if you file your Forms 4473 in numerical order, you may record your internal Form 4473 number in the A&D record in lieu of recording the name and address of the non-licensee to whom you sold or transferred the firearm.
(I believe that the Form 4473 already has the purchaser’s name and address on it, so by saving or recording the 4473, in lieu of making a separate A&D journal entry, the dealer is in fact keeping a record of the name and address of the purchaser.)

The ATF goes on to say: If you sell or discontinue your firearms or ammunition business and are succeeded by a new licensee, your firearms dealer records should be marked to show this fact and must be delivered to the successor. If you do not have a successor, you must deliver all of your firearms records within 30 days of going completely out of the firearms business to: ATF National Tracing Center.

So eventually your name and purchase information will end up in the hands of the Government.

This is my understanding – any FFL holders that can clarify?

Hill60 on February 25, 2013 at 4:16 PM

You’re aware that the BATFE was caught doing exactly that…

novaculus on February 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Very well aware. But, since most people aren’t even aware of the current federal database of gun ownership, we have to start somewhere.

Baby steps for the newly enlightened.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:17 PM

WaPo makes it sound like the records would be kept by a private entity, not by the government, but it’s uncertain which private entity that might be:

Google ?

Mr. Arrogant on February 25, 2013 at 4:18 PM

This is my understanding …

Hill60 on February 25, 2013 at 4:16 PM

What part of that don’t you understand?

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:18 PM

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:18 PM

OK, so that’s my polite way of presenting facts (direct quotes from the ATF) and then asking if anybody can debunk it.

They can’t.

The ATF has records of previous purchases. So Coburn being all “righteous” is somewhat of a farce.

Hill60 on February 25, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Same here friend. I just read it again, and now I’m re-reading Animal Farm…

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 4:02 PM

PR, if you haven’t already read it, read Homage to Catalonia. It’s where Orwell got his first taste of Stalinist tactics, in the Spanish Civil War. Orwell had his political faults, but attacking Stalinism/Stalinists wasn’t one of them.

Homage To Catalonia

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 4:21 PM

Hill60 on February 25, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Well, technically, they cannot share it with anybody, or even compile it in a database…technically…it hasn’t stopped them from trying though.

cozmo on February 25, 2013 at 4:23 PM

Tom, you were a fool for trying to emulate McLame and other career politicos in extending your hand for such a cause! I know the Contstitution is not a foreign document to you, but you should take a long hard look at what it says. In particular the Preamble to the Bill of Rights! These are God given rights and the Constitution confirms them by enumerating them! The 2nd Amendment says nothing about registering your weapons, or background checks, but does affirm the right of every citizen to own and keep arms.

You are a rarity in D.C., by stating from the beginning that you were only going to serve 2-terms in the Senate. You have kept your word by not standing for a 3rd term. Unfortunately, you have sullied your reputation by reacting to a heinous act, by trying to alter our Constitutional rights. At the same time, I am sure your constituents have let you know how disappointed they are in your attempt to join the anti-gun crowd. Ergo, your announcement about no deal on background checks. Hurry home, we miss you!

tomshup on February 25, 2013 at 4:26 PM

The Chinese military won’t need to hack it – not that our gubmint could or would stop them anyway.
The Dems will hand over the registry along with the keys to the country as soon as we’re perfectly ripe for the picking as the socialist utopia colony China has paid for….

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:06 PM

At least we will enjoy the sight of Obama supporters getting free re-education camp scholarships from our new Chinese overlords which they will think is like free college until they realize what it really is. They will at last have a real job putting together cheap junk 18 hours a day, no weekends off, no vacations, no rest, and no minimal wage.

:)

William Eaton on February 25, 2013 at 4:29 PM

But hey, DON’T PANIC!

Del Dolemonte on February 25, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I’m not – yet.
I have my towel….

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:34 PM

Trotksy??

Marcus Aurelius on February 25, 2013 at 4:36 PM

At least we will enjoy the sight of Obama supporters getting free re-education camp scholarships from our new Chinese overlords which they will think is like free college until they realize what it really is. They will at last have a real job putting together cheap junk 18 hours a day, no weekends off, no vacations, no rest, and no minimal wage.

:)

William Eaton on February 25, 2013 at 4:29 PM

If it comes to that, I’ll be up in the hills yelling Wolverines!!!!

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 4:38 PM

novaculus on February 25, 2013 at 4:14 PM

EGGSACTLY!

As I recall, lawsuits were filed, too.

I never followed up on their outcome.

The State CANNOT be trusted – not for a second.

Excellent post, novaculus.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 4:40 PM

What is the difference between Animal Farm and the Whitehouse Website you ask? Well for one, Animal Farm has a happier ending… o_O

SWalker on February 25, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Come now, surely you realize that the Obama’s would not deign to paint rules on the side of the barn with paint brushes held in their trotters, do you?

That is soooo 1940′s.

Lily on February 25, 2013 at 4:40 PM

My favorite part of Animal Farm is the fact that PIGS are the chief hypocrites and malefactors.

Just like our politicians.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 4:43 PM

But there are all sorts of non-profits doing double fun unicorn farting good! And wonderful, witty, wise womyn work at those non-profits!

thuja on February 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM

.
Translation: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

listens2glenn on February 25, 2013 at 3:46 PM

In the leftist imagination of utopia, all the enlightened people will be selfish and working for non-profits. I was jokingly suggesting that non-profits could do the record keeping for gun sales, since OhEssYouCowboys had pointed out that there are no private entities in the perfect Obamaworld.

thuja on February 25, 2013 at 4:45 PM

The National Rifle Association is using a Justice Department memo it obtained to argue in ads that the Obama administration believes its gun control plans won’t work unless the government seizes firearms and requires national gun registration — ideas the White House has not proposed and does not support.

http://news.yahoo.com/nra-uses-justice-memo-accuse-obama-guns-084745794.html

The nine-page document says the success of universal background checks would depend in part on “requiring gun registration,” and says gun buybacks would not be effective “unless massive and coupled with a ban.”

The administration has not proposed gun registration, buybacks or banning all firearms. But gun registration and ownership curbs are hot-button issues for the NRA and other gun-rights groups, which strenuously oppose the ideas.

The regimes is talking out of both sides of it’s mouth – on the one hand it pretends to not be proposing gun registration and on the other – that is exactly what they are proposing.

Colbyjack on February 25, 2013 at 4:55 PM

A record of the sale then could be turned over to a licensed retailer, sent to the gun’s manufacturer or kept by the seller.

If this is in any bill, what happens if the seller is the one who is suppused to keep the record and then somehow misplaces/loses the record, and then the police need the record for a police investigation somewhere down the line. Does the seller get brought up on charges for not keeping a record as according to law?

Sales Records: FFLs are required to maintain records of the acquisition and sale of firearms indefinitely.17
17. 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(1)(A).

It’s tantamount to registration.

Patriot Vet on February 25, 2013 at 5:17 PM

I am sickened with Republicans who can only talk issues within the context of “the deal.” Their entire world is “the deal.” They need to step outside the sacred context of the deal and hammer away at the ideology and passions which end up producing the inanities and perfidies that end up in “the deal.”

These people are so lost in their process-obsessed world they can’t think like Americans, like us, anymore.

rrpjr on February 25, 2013 at 5:18 PM

No, no, the feds or state cops don’t have lists of gun owners, nosirree bub. Universal background check law is a gun registry law. Heck, the EEOC now wants businesses to not run criminal background checks when hiring people, its “discriminatory”. Need them for guns. They’re already talking about trying to make folks get certain prescription drugs in multiple small doses to avoid people selling pain pills in the private/black markets. Bloomers is pushing 2 liter soda bans with pizza orders. Soon you’ll need a background check for big gulp, pizza and a box of donuts.

See the David Pyles case from Medford Oregon:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/06-10-2010-david-pyles-letter

oryguncon on February 25, 2013 at 5:22 PM

rrpjr on February 25, 2013 at 5:18 PM

Frankly, I don’t give a flying rat’s ass whether they have an “R” by their names, anymore.

As far as I’m concerned, there is a rebuttable [maybe] presumption that they’re all political pigs in perpetuity and are anathema to the citizen-legislator.

They have no conception of the real world, because they’ve abandoned it.

It’s all about maintaining and asserting power over the filthy masses.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 5:26 PM

No, you don’t get to do the “California play”, where you secretly keep a state DB of firearms registrations, totally unlawfully, which you then use as if it fell out of thin air or something.

You cannot enforce the law by breaking it. I thought that was kinda obvious.

mojo on February 25, 2013 at 5:44 PM

My favorite part of Animal Farm is the fact that PIGS are the chief hypocrites and malefactors.
Just like our politicians.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 4:43 PM

As far as I’m concerned, there is a rebuttable [maybe] presumption that they’re all political pigs in perpetuity and are anathema to the citizen-legislator.

OhEssYouCowboys on February 25, 2013 at 5:26 PM

Hey hey hey – what have you got against pigs anyway?
How dare you keep comparing my respectable pork friends to a bunch of filthy politicians…..

dentarthurdent on February 25, 2013 at 6:12 PM

PR, if you haven’t already read it, read Homage to Catalonia. It’s where Orwell got his first taste of Stalinist tactics, in the Spanish Civil War. Orwell had his political faults, but attacking Stalinism/Stalinists wasn’t one of them.

Homage To Catalonia

I have not… But now I shall. Thanks for the tip Cowboy.

Polish Rifle on February 25, 2013 at 6:44 PM

The current NICS system has more holes than Swiss cheese. So naturally, let’s start a new system RATHER THAN FIX THE HOLES IN THE OLD ONE!

GarandFan on February 25, 2013 at 7:17 PM

THEY ARE NOT ENFORCING THE CURRENT NICS REGULATIONS–therefore, there is no need to change anything regarding background checks. The real focus should be on following through on CURRENT LAWS for dealers. Period. Any law which requires me to keep records obligates me at some point to turn over those records–to governing authorities. Therefore, it is nothing but GUN REGISTRATION!

I mostly appreciate Coburn’s efforts on the economy and government waste. But I do not appreciate Coburn attempting to “negotiate away” MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

mountainaires on February 26, 2013 at 9:06 AM

No, no, the feds or state cops don’t have lists of gun owners, nosirree bub. Universal background check law is a gun registry law. Heck, the EEOC now wants businesses to not run criminal background checks when hiring people, its “discriminatory”. Need them for guns. They’re already talking about trying to make folks get certain prescription drugs in multiple small doses to avoid people selling pain pills in the private/black markets. Bloomers is pushing 2 liter soda bans with pizza orders. Soon you’ll need a background check for big gulp, pizza and a box of donuts.

See the David Pyles case from Medford Oregon:

http://reason.com/archives/2010/03/16/pre-crime-policing

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/06-10-2010-david-pyles-letter

Amen. It’s sickening to see any Republicans negotiating away our Constitutional rights–basically agreeing to the statist/totalitarian/authoritarian argument that the government has ANY RIGHT WHATSOEVER to know what I own, or what I do with what I own.

As far as I know–and I do know–I have not broken any laws. Therefore the federal government has NO RIGHT whatsoever to punish me, take away my rights to purchase legal property, to sell said property when I want and to whom I want. And, REPUBLICANS of all people, should not be participating in ANY pretense that it is appropriate to LIMIT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!

It’s fecking outrageous, and I am pissed off as hell about all of it. And, I’ll tell you what: I’ve seen FAR TOO MANY BLOG POSTS HERE by people like AP and others, who are capitulating on this and other issues, tumbling right into the narratives of the statists/authoritarians/totalitarians. Do you people have a fecking clue?

It was just a pretty TROJAN HORSE, when it entered the city, remember? But it masked a danger inside.

mountainaires on February 26, 2013 at 9:15 AM