US News: Biden’s legal advice will get you arrested

posted at 2:41 pm on February 21, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

When I first heard about Joe Biden’s response to a question about home defense, I said, “What?” As it turns out, I wasn’t alone in my shock over the extremely dangerous advice given by Biden as an alternative to owning an AR-15 or a high-capacity magazine for any other semiautomatic.  If you follow the Vice President’s advice here, you may well find yourself in prison for negligent homicide, as US News explains:

“I said, ‘Jill, if there’s ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony here, walk out and put that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house,’” Biden said.

“You don’t need an AR-15—it’s harder to aim,” he added, “it’s harder to use, and in fact you don’t need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!”

Before we get to Steven Nelson’s analysis of the “the worst type of advice,” Allahpundit made a point about the weapon choice:

Here’s the vice president of the United States encouraging you to go on out and get yourself a 12-gauge, just like the one he’s got. Why? Because it’s easier to aim and use than an AR-15, which … I’m pretty sure isn’t true, but whatever. Just buy a shotgun. Buy a shotgun. That way, if ever you snap and head off on a killing spree, the death toll will be limited. Unless you bring a bag of shells with you and reload quickly, I guess. In which case, who knows?

A shotgun is a good choice for home defense, but not the double-barreled type, unless you’re fortunate to only have one threat in front of you.  It takes too much time to open the weapon, pull out the spent shells, and reload, especially when frightened and stressed.  A pump-action shotgun is a much better choice because (a) it holds more rounds in case there is more than one threat, and (b) no one can possibly mistake the cha-chunk of a pump loading the shell.  A shotgun is easier to aim because you don’t need as much precision to hit the target, as you would with an AR-15 and especially a pistol under stress.  If you get close, you’ll probably score a hit.

The rest, however, is nonsense — and dangerous nonsense, seemingly taken from TV shows rather than any sort of instruction on firearms use. Anyone who has gone through a firearms safety course knows this basic rule: Never fire a “warning shot” into the air — especially when it means you have to reload immediately, as you would with two blasts from a double-barreled shotgun; you’ve just effectively disarmed yourself.

But more to the point, it ignores the physics of the ammunition.  What goes up must come down, and when it does, it can kill — and often does:

Rob Wiltbank, a gun rights advocate who founded Delaware Open Carry in 2008, told U.S. News he agrees with the vice president that a shotgun would be good for home protection, but he was also troubled by the hypothetical.

“It would be incredibly irresponsible of a gun owner to blindly discharge a firearm into the air,” said Wiltbank. “What goes up, must come down and this specific behavior has been the cause of many negligent homicides over the years.”

Tom Shellenberger, a lawyer who serves as a spokesman for the Delaware State Sportsmen’s Association, told U.S. News that Biden’s security tip was “the worst type of advice.”

It also ignores another key legal fact that people who study to carry weapons learn immediately, which is that one cannot use deadly force to protect property.  Self-defense in homicides only apply when there is a reasonable belief that one’s life is in imminent danger (or that of another):

Garey said that under Biden’s scenario, Jill Biden could be charged with aggravated menacing, a felony, and reckless endangering in the first degree.

“You cannot use deadly force to protect property” in Delaware, added Garey.

“It is not uncommon” for people to be charged with crimes under similar circumstances, he said. “I’ve seen cases where lawful citizens have used guns outside their homes and they end up arrested.”

Besides, it’s also tactically stupid:

In addition to felony charges, Shellenberger cited the “Discharge of a firearm within 15 yards of a road (7 Del.C. § 719), a misdemeanor,” and “Violation of the residential dwelling safety zone as set forth in 7 Del.C. § 723, also a misdemeanor.”

“Beyond the potential criminal liability, it is simply bad advice,” added Shellenberger. “Not only does blasting blindly away put innocent persons at risk, it also tells the bad guys where you are and that you are armed. In most circumstances, it might be better if that comes as a surprise to the bad guys.”

If Biden doesn’t have the common sense to understand any of the above, let alone all of the above, why should anyone trust his efforts to rewrite gun laws that limit our legal rights to self-defense?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Most rooms are 12′ to 15′ max. Most city homes, while having a lot of square footage, have very few long clear distances, because they are made up of many smaller rooms and unaligned entries from room to room.

Dusty on February 21, 2013 at 3:38 PM

At those shorter distances the spread will be even less so you definitely had better be able to hit what you are aiming at with a shotgun. The idea that a shotgun is a “you can’t miss” weapon is false.

sharrukin on February 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM

With one notable exception! As wiki tells us:

A “shotgun house” is a narrow rectangular domestic residence, usually no more than 12 feet (3.5 m) wide, with rooms arranged one behind the other and doors at each end of the house. It was the most popular style of house in the Southern United States from the end of the American Civil War (1861–65), through the 1920s. Alternate names include “shotgun shack”, “shotgun hut” and “shotgun cottage”.

-snip-

A longstanding theory is that the style can be traced from Africa to Haitian influences on house design in New Orleans, but the houses can be found as far away as Chicago, Illinois

Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM

Crazy and stupid! A heartbeat away! Wayta go commie-libs! There’s your Uncle Joe! And yet nothing but crickets from the obama loving media.

sgtstogie on February 21, 2013 at 4:52 PM

[Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM]

Never heard of that style called that before. Neat. Maybe developers could start marketing their houses based on the best style firearm for that home.

“Now this is what we call the Bushmaster ranch home ….”

Dusty on February 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Never heard of that style called that before. Neat. Maybe developers could start marketing their houses based on the best style firearm for that home.

“Now this is what we call the Bushmaster ranch home ….”

Dusty on February 21, 2013 at 4:56 PM

“Here we have the Minigun style…”

“But it’s just a big empty space with no walls.”

“Exactly.”

CurtZHP on February 21, 2013 at 5:02 PM

What about pistols with bird shot rounds?

Cleombrotus on February 21, 2013 at 3:35 PM

That’s what I thought too. Judge. 3″chamber 3″load 6 shot. at 10 yards 15 pellets in a 20″ circle. Useless. Sorry.

WryTrvllr on February 21, 2013 at 5:04 PM

While I see what you are saying, alot of what you say is dependent on what state you live in, and quite possibly the actual city/town.

D-fusit on February 21, 2013 at 4:33 PM


Yes, no and maybe …

Yes, there are places where use of an AR-15 would not be weighed against someone in a home defense scenario. Anyone planning on using one should be EXTREMELY familiar with the local police department and/or sheriff’s opinion, the local prosecuting attorney or attornies outloook (overlapping jurisdictions) and any state regulations regarding AR-15 type weapons.

No, in a civil case you are far EASIER to crucify because the “beyond a reasonable doubt” protection no longer applies and the people selected for jury duty may be L.I.V.’s who buy into the “evil black weapons of death” propaganda.

Maybe … as I said above, the technical “merits” of using an AR-15 in a home defense situation are not THAT substantial while the legal exposure is significantly greater.

The deciding factor in my case is:

Even if you “win” the gunfight and any legal fights, you can still end up paying a ridiculous amount of money to a lawyer because of your choice of weapon.

PolAgnostic on February 21, 2013 at 5:06 PM

[PolAgnostic on February 21, 2013 at 4:08 PM]

Thanks for that, too, PolAgnostic. It’s definitely worth keeping in mind.

Dusty on February 21, 2013 at 5:07 PM

one cannot use deadly force to protect property

Really?? News to us here in Texas. Of course you can use deadlyforce to protect your property

Texas Penal Code – Section 9.42. Deadly Force To Protect Property

§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and

(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and

(3) he reasonably believes that:

(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or

(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

I can’t believe that most other states don’t have similar laws/provisions.

E9RET on February 21, 2013 at 5:08 PM

nonpartisan on February 21, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Maybe you should avoid commenting on gun threads until you’re actually old enough to own (a real) one.

soundingboard on February 21, 2013 at 5:09 PM

A “shotgun house” is a narrow rectangular domestic residence, usually no more than 12 feet (3.5 m) wide, with rooms arranged one behind the other and doors at each end of the house. It was the most popular style of house in the Southern United States from the end of the American Civil War (1861–65), through the 1920s. Alternate names include “shotgun shack”, “shotgun hut” and “shotgun cottage”.

-snip-

A longstanding theory is that the style can be traced from Africa to Haitian influences on house design in New Orleans, but the houses can be found as far away as Chicago, Illinois

Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM

.
As you may know, the “minimal width” floor plans became popular in locations where your property tax was calculated based on the “street frontage” – not the area of the plat or the total square footage of the residence.

Their long hallways do make an effective “kill zone” though as you point out.

PolAgnostic on February 21, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM

NOLA also has a number of
“double shotgun” houses.

Word on the street is that Chokin’ Joe is gonna buy one when he leaves DC.

soundingboard on February 21, 2013 at 5:14 PM

I honestly think most of you are missing the most important point here.

If manslaughter joe wants his wife and other residents of the DC area to waste two shells into the potomac watershed before they deal with the problem at hand, let them.

In 15 years or so, the intelligence level of legislation coming out of DC might actually improve. (as the property values start to drop).

In the meantime, shouldn’t the Secretly Serviced have to fire in the air for a minute or so too?

WryTrvllr on February 21, 2013 at 5:23 PM

Holy Smokes.

It has dawned on me.

His wife has been all these years.

That’s why he such a crazy loon.

WryTrvllr on February 21, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM

NOLA also has a number of
“double shotgun” houses.

Word on the street is that Chokin’ Joe is gonna buy one when he leaves DC.

soundingboard on February 21, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Yeah, those are called double-barreled shotgun houses.

Many years ago (early 1990s?) when Bob Vila was still hosting “This Old House”, they did a series where they restored a shotgun house in Algiers, which is just across the river from New Orleans. A lot of those have been “gentrified”, unlike their counterparts in the 9th Ward.

Shotgun House primer

Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 5:57 PM

I would think neither is as good as a pistol, is the close environment of a home

Dusty on February 21, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Working brain strikes again.

nonpartisan on February 21, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Not working. How often do you clean and inspect the sear and pin, gas chambers and/or charging elements on your virtual “weapons”?/sarc/

S. D. on February 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM

PolAgnostic on February 21, 2013 at 5:06 PM

I agree with your points. Choice of a defensive weapon can be crucial when it comes to prosecutors and juries. The aftermath of an armed encounter has the potential to be quite painful and devastatingly expensive. Lord, protect me from a prosecutor with political ambitions.

a capella on February 21, 2013 at 6:18 PM

This looks like a pretty good starter weapon. http://flashlightnews.org/story2782.shtml

S. D. on February 21, 2013 at 6:31 PM

No surprise. His boss’s election (and therefore his, by way of “insurance”) got us screwed.

IrishEyes on February 21, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Lord, protect me from a prosecutor with political ambitions.

a capella on February 21, 2013 at 6:18 PM

Or one seeking to justify his witch hunt. Just ask Scooter Libby.

IrishEyes on February 21, 2013 at 6:34 PM

Del Dolemonte on February 21, 2013 at 4:42 PM

Yep. First house I can recall (as a 2-3 year-old) was a shotgun house. Lived in one or two more before jr. high school.

IrishEyes on February 21, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Well duh you cant discharge a shotgun into the air just because you feel like it.

TX-96 on February 21, 2013 at 6:58 PM

So he gets to choose for us…how so anti-liberal.

CW on February 21, 2013 at 7:04 PM

US News: Biden’s legal advice will get you arrested

…unless you are a Democrat!

KOOLAID2 on February 21, 2013 at 7:10 PM

in pretty much every shooter I play, the shotgun is hands down the best weapon

I can clear rooms of guys with assault weapons and SMGs

nonpartisan on February 21, 2013 at 2:43 PM

…the only trigger you can pull ‘shooter‘…is between your legs!

KOOLAID2 on February 21, 2013 at 7:13 PM

in pretty much every shooter I play, the shotgun is hands down the best weapon

I can clear rooms of guys with assault weapons and SMGs

nonpartisan on February 21, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Then when you run and tell mom how good you did, does she fix you something special?

arnold ziffel on February 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM

And with those words….

“Shotgun Joe” was born.

William Eaton on February 21, 2013 at 2:49 PM

Sounds like someone might have been shooting from the hip…seeing as how that’s a bad thing and all (according to BHO).

Nutstuyu on February 21, 2013 at 7:33 PM


the only trigger you can pull ‘shooter‘…is between your legs!

KOOLAID2 on February 21, 2013 at 7:13 PM

I wouldn’t be to sure about that.

chemman on February 21, 2013 at 7:51 PM

In Arizona popping off a warning shot is a no-no! If the perp has actually entered the premises it matters not what you shot him with.

LEO around here EXPECT to see Center of Mass and shoot until the threat is down!

Old Dog on February 21, 2013 at 7:53 PM

‘Shotgun’ Joe should stay with things he actually knows about shooting off like his mouth.

nonpartisan on February 21, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Exactly the kind of jackwagon who takes advice from a man who habitually sticks both feet in his mouth while his head is up his a$$.

ghostwalker1 on February 21, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Hey, Jill.

Here’s a hot self defense tip.

Don’t take any hot self defense tips from your hubby.

petefrt on February 21, 2013 at 8:27 PM

I agree with the sentiment, but the “what goes up must come down” is not that serious with a shotgun. The terminal velocity of a shotgun shot is pretty low. People being killed from falling bullets does happen, but I challenge you to find me a case where it was shot from a shotgun.

munseym on February 21, 2013 at 8:51 PM

A shotgun is easier to aim because you don’t need as much precision to hit the target, as you would with an AR-15 and especially a pistol under stress.

At the ranges you’d be engaging at in a home-defense situation that’s not really true. A shotgun doesn’t produce a 60-degree x 50 foot cone of death like a 9th-level D&D spell. The pattern at those ranges probably wouldn’t be more than a few inches. The benefits of a shotgun for home defense are a)the nine .33-caliber pellets in a round of 12-gage 00 buckshot that will cause massive trauma in any living tissue they hit, and b)it’s less likely than a rifle round to go through the wall and cause collateral damage elsewhere. At ranges longer than that a rifle would almost always be better.

Walter Sobchak on February 21, 2013 at 8:57 PM

Some basic facts that Slow Joe Doesn’t Know;

1. Almost any projectile, even shotgun loads much larger than birdshot, will penetrate most walls in modern residential structures. It takes at least 3/8″ sheetrock to stop anything much bigger than about No. 6 birdshot; the standard “in-town” police load of No.4 buckshot (not “double-ought”) may or may not go through that. Plasterboard?- no problem; No.4 goes through it like it was cheesecloth.

2. Any long arm is a bad choice for urban home defense, and not much better for indoor defense in the country. Reason? Weapon retention. A three or four-foot-long rifle, carbine or shotgun is something that can be grabbed right out of your hands by a home invader, especially if you’re going through a doorway and he’s waiting on the other side of same. If it becomes a wrestling match, the trigger may be pressed inadvertently.

3. In a reasonable jurisdiction, if the perpetrator catches a packet as the result, the local Grand Jury will likely say “he asked for it”. But in an unreasonable one, you could be prosecuted for negligent homicide, especially if you have an aggressively anti-gun prosecutor. Here in Ohio, prosecutors who don’t like our version of the Castle Law have been known to do just that to get around its prohibitions on prosecuting home defenders.

4. For the above reasons, the best home-defense arm for indoor use remains the pistol, revolver or self-loading, your choice. It is small, can be held close in to the body, and at the ranges in question (four to five yards at most), anyone can learn to hit a target a foot across with a moderate amount of practice. That’s about two-thirds the width and height of the average adult male torso, which is where you should be aiming if it comes down to the immediate action.

5. As for the rifle, any rifle, Elmer Keith said it best. Quote;

Any remote homestead should have a rifle capable of accurate aimed fire out to 300 yards.

Note the “remote homestead” part. Meaning, a house surrounded by open land, not other houses. As for the “300 yards” part, that’s about as far as most trained rifle shooters can actually hit anything. And frankly, most rifle shots, in hunting or in combat, are at less than 100 yards, anyway.

For the record, my “house gun” is a 9mm P-35 High Power. Yes, it’s an old design, but so is gravity, and it still works. And unlike a .357 revolver, it has somewhat less chance of going through an assailant and a wall and hitting someone outside, especially if loaded with expanding bullets. Which are the only kind I use, precisely to reduce the potential for overpenetration.

And yes, I have a rifle. It stays in the gun safe. As for a shotgun, if I ever feel the need for a gun to deal with multiple assailants at “front yard” ranges, I might buy one, Until then, I don’t see the need for it, Slow Joe notwithstanding.

As for qualifications, before medical retirement I was a forensic science specialist working in a crime lab, what’s called a “CSI” today. In my time, we were just called “lab geeks”. And my specialty was ballistics; interior, exterior, and what happens when high-velocity lead collides with objects. Including people. The results of which I often saw in Autopsy.

My knowledge of firearms, their effects, and which is the optimum choice for which purpose, was gained “on the job”, you might say.

clear ether

eon

eon on February 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

eon on February 21, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Don’t forget single handed deploy-ability.

S. D. on February 21, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Biden’s legal advice will get you arrested

And Obama’s medical advice will get you killed.

VorDaj on February 21, 2013 at 9:50 PM

When I lived in Texas, it was legal to use deadly force to protect property after dark. When will the other states become civilized?

Al in St. Lou on February 21, 2013 at 10:34 PM

When Biden speaks to the public in his mind he is speaking to a 2nd Grader.

AshleyTKing on February 21, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Biden’s such an unmitigated freaking idiot. It’d be funny if it weren’t for the fact that he’s #2 in line for the presidency.

Moronus Maximus

Conservchik on February 21, 2013 at 11:46 PM

In class, I asked my instructor, ‘what if perps start attacking my cats?’. To me they’re furry children-but to the state of Texas they’re property. If perps started hurting my cats, I could point my weapon at them and yell…which might make them turn their attention to me. If that were to happen….it would no longer be a property issue.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 21, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Uh Yeah Joe, fire your double barrel shotgun in the air so now you have an unloaded gun, that the bad guys can beat you with, after they get done shooting you with their high capacity AR15, What a moron !

stormridercx4 on February 22, 2013 at 2:21 AM

A shotgun is a good choice for home defense,

If IF

IF

you’re able to handle the size and recoil. For most women, a 12-guage is too hard to handle, both because they tend to be smaller, and because they have less upper body strength.

An AR-15 is not ideal for home defense, but that’s mainly because it’s bulky, and the bullets penetrate too much. But it has little or no recoil, and for many women is probably a better choice than a shotgun. Besides, if you’re having to defend your home against an invader, “scary-looking” is GOOD!

I don’t think you can find any part of Biden’s advice that isn’t disastrously wrong. The only people that would find a 12-gauge to be a great home defense weapon are men who are at least somewhat used to shooting it. Give it to a woman who’s never fired it before, and she’s liable to miss two or three times before she gets used to the recoil and adjusts to it.

There Goes The Neighborhood on February 22, 2013 at 2:57 AM

If Biden doesn’t have the common sense to understand any of the above, let alone all of the above, why should anyone trust his efforts to rewrite gun laws that limit our legal rights to self-defense?
POSTED AT 2:41 PM ON FEBRUARY 21, 2013 BY ED MORRISSEY

Seriously, Ed? Trust him to re-write gun laws?…LMFAO…you are kidding?

Nitwits elected this farce of a man to a position where his mendacity has only become amplified. Why would we trust him with grocery errands let alone re-writing gun laws. The man’s a fool.

Please Ed, expand your mind a bit and realize this for what it is. The people “running the show” are idiots and at ANY given time Biden could be the man with his hand on the “button”.

DevilsPrinciple on February 22, 2013 at 6:05 AM

Joe Biden is a lawyer. Giving people advice like go outside and shoot two shots in the air could very well get you arrested.

Quite awhile back here in Minnesota a farmer wanted some hunters to leave his property, he fired a warning shot just like our lawyer friend Joe Biden advised here. Nobody was injured. Result? The farmer was convicted and spent some serious time in prison.

A shotgun is fine for self defense in the home, double barreled, pump or auto. But, Joe Biden’s lawyerly advice should get him disbarred.

jpmn on February 22, 2013 at 6:30 AM

Besides, if you’re having to defend your home against an invader, “scary-looking” is GOOD!
There Goes The Neighborhood on February 22, 2013 at 2:57 AM

Respectfully, I’d have to tell you that if your brandishing your weapon in full view of an aggressor then I’d also tell you that you’ve lost the element of surprise, a major component of winning.

DevilsPrinciple on February 22, 2013 at 6:50 AM

Never fire a “warning shot” into the air — especially when it means you have to reload immediately, as you would with two blasts from a double-barreled shotgun; you’ve just effectively disarmed yourself.

Goodness, you apparently neglect to understand that liberals know that all double barrels have a minimum of four chambers, plus are instantly reloadable withe new Remington “quad clip.” (also a more expensive remote model is available)
Say, what is this shotgun craze coming from our White house, first Obama gives us parallel skeeter-shooting lessons, and now Joe is teaching folks how to shoot nighthawks and bats?

Don L on February 22, 2013 at 7:31 AM

Don’t worry. Acting on bad advice from the government makes you immune from prosecution. Well, that and being a member of the nomenklatura.

- David Gregory

xuyee on February 22, 2013 at 8:13 AM

An unadulterated clown and a jackass…… It is incredible that the country (not me) have installed a communist and a clown in the highest offices in the land. Thanks liberals…. what brains!

ultracon on February 22, 2013 at 9:25 AM

“has”, not “have”….. sorry.

ultracon on February 22, 2013 at 9:27 AM

The thing is, even if you told someone like Biden why this is ridiculous he wouldn’t listen, because he WANTS to believe that this is the way things SHOULD be, irrespective of any evidence to the contrary. For leftists, this disconnect from reality is proof of their superior intelligence, and is therefore considered a virtue…

Pest on February 22, 2013 at 9:57 AM

Thanks, but I rarely take legal advice from notorious blithering idiots anyway.

mojo on February 22, 2013 at 10:32 AM

Joe Biden the Walking Idiot is Obama’s best life insurance policy. What right thinking person would even consider wishing ill on the president knowing that this professional doofus (and dam, he is good at it) is next in line???

NeoCon_1 on February 22, 2013 at 10:41 AM

in pretty much every shooter I play, the shotgun is hands down the best weapon

I can clear rooms of guys with assault weapons and SMGs

nonpartisan on February 21, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Maybe you should avoid commenting on gun threads until you’re actually old enough to own (a real) one.

soundingboard on February 21, 2013 at 5:09 PM

Actually, he’s quite correct. In Battlefield 3, the fully automatic USAS-12 with the 11 round mag and Frag-12 rounds (shotgun shell sized grenades) was quite devastating… until the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth by other players forced the games makers to reduce the weapons effectiveness to an unrealistic level.

In the real-world, using a machine-grenade-gun for private home defense is as realistic and reasonable as Talkin’ Joe’s ignorant yammering.

Alberta_Patriot on February 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM

“You don’t need an AR-15—it’s harder to aim,” he added, “it’s harder to use, and in fact you don’t need 30 rounds to protect yourself. Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!”

Politics being the art of compromise, how about we split the difference and get an AR-15 shotgun (WARNING: foul language, violence against trees)?

This one only has 11 rounds though, that should satisfy Americas first mentally challenged VPOTUS.

Alberta_Patriot on February 23, 2013 at 8:04 AM

Seeings as Biteme is a stupid arse… zactally what is expected comes out o him…

RalphyBoy on February 26, 2013 at 2:26 AM

Comment pages: 1 2