Video: In which I get ill with Juan Williams over accusation that I don’t care about victims of gun violence
posted at 12:41 pm on February 15, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham
I don’t usually post video of myself, but this got a lot of reaction this morning. I imagine my visceral annoyance speaks for a lot of people being accused of not caring about children who die at the hands of murderers just because we happen to disagree with President Obama’s preferred federal remedies for said murders (most of which have already been implemented and failed spectacularly).
Juan and I are friends, and as I say at the end of the clip, we will make it up later. But please notice that I do not impugn Juan’s motives. I would have appreciated the same consideration. I have no doubt that he cares deeply about those affected by gun violence, but I think he puts far too much emphasis on the emotional catharsis of passing a law to “fix” a problem, which then doesn’t fix the problem. If one supports a remedy, such as the Assault Weapons Ban, which has already demonstrably failed to prevent mass shootings on a national level (Columbine) and a state level (Newtown), and yet wants to implement that failed policy again, isn’t that effectively just as bad as not caring about the problem? If one supports stricter gun laws, which have demonstrably failed in places like Chicago and Washington, D.C., while ignoring the deeper social problems that cause gang-related shootings and Newtown-like single shooters, isn’t that effectively just as bad as not giving a damn? Ignoring these failures and repeating failed policies arguably goes beyond indifference into a form of criminal negligence, no matter how well-meaning.
I’ve already been accused of racism online for sticking up for gun owners and wanting to address deeper issues that might actually curb gun violence, so let me add this. One, it’s racist and ignorant to assume there are no minorities among the legal gun owners I’m defending. Two, I think there are deeper social issues at play in both gang war and single shooters, who are almost exclusively white and suburban/rural, and reference both problems in this clip, so no I’m not blaming gun violence on cities or minorities. And, finally, strict gun laws in Chicago often prevent people like Otis McDonald, a 76-year-old black South Side resident, from protecting themselves. I would like Mr. McDonald and 70-year-old Detroit basketball coach Ernest Robinson, and others like them to have that right— not be held hostage by the bad intentions of armed criminals and the failed good intentions of their liberal lawmakers.
Yet I’m the one accused of not caring for having the audacity to point out that law-abiding people shouldn’t be punished for criminals’ crimes and asking a federal law to actually produce something other than the moral superiority of its supporters. The conversation wasn’t even really about gun control. It was about being able to disagree with liberal policies or point out their inefficacy, without being smeared as a heartless racist. (Juan didn’t go there with the racism, just the heartlessness, and I appreciate at least that, although my Twitter feed is full of it.) Juan himself has faced the exact same bullying when he strays from the liberal line on issues like school choice, on which we agree. It’s unfair and unhelpful, and dare I say it, uncaring.
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Oh please. Do you really want me to laundry list the idiocy and destruction liberals have brought into our society?
Okay.. here’s a few:
- Rampant drug addition
- Sexualization of our children
- No fault divorce
- Crumbling of the family structure
- Economic insanity
I’ll stop there. It’s by no means anywhere near complete, but just off the top of my head for a few examples.
Are these acts of “friendlies”? If you like hanging with people of this mind-set then good for you. Don’t be surprised when a CONSERVATIVE website, many of whom are distressed and angered by the state of society today, doesn’t find this tolerable.
And yes MKH does get to choose her friends, but she did bring this topic and her POV to this forum and given that comments are allowed then it shouldn’t be any surprise that some of us are less than impressed.
kim roy on February 15, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Lest not forget. Business is business.
Bmore on February 15, 2013 at 3:31 PM
If this gets me banned, then so be it, but that’s BS. Maybe we’ve had enough, like the battered woman who sets fire to her husband while he’s sleeping.
Maybe we’re just tired of being “better people”. We stand here, look around and see where it’s got us. Hideously in debt and a debauched and debased society.
Maybe it’s time for us to stop being “better people” and start taking back our society and our economy. If we have to be a little angry and rude, then maybe we have to be a little angry and rude.
Insinuating that we aren’t “better people” because we’re “an angry person who holds constant bitterness toward those around you” is an insult to those that have had enough.
You haven’t had enough yet? Okay. Glad you have so much patience. Don’t insult those of us who have run out.
kim roy on February 15, 2013 at 3:34 PM
After reading this whole thing, and as a fan of MKH (miss you on WMAL, btw…), I’m left with wondering about the exact nature of a friendship with someone who would call me a racist as a way to score a cheap shot on national television.
I don’t think friends do that. If it’s part of the “job” then I guess it is, but being tarred as a racist over a political disagreement would be a road too far for me. And I say this as a fellow who has a significant percentage of liberal friends. At the least, such a thing would make me seriously re-evaluate just what kind of a friend Juan Williams is.
JohnTant on February 15, 2013 at 3:36 PM
I would agree with you on this except I believe it’s much more sinister than this.
They know damn well minorities are among the legal gun owners. The successful politics of the Left requires that we must be agitated into a constant fractured state of political factions with no unifying principles.
The Left is never going to give up racist or sexist agitation in place of an argument on the principles of a citizens right to freedom, self defense, and to live unmolested by people and governments.
Th big lie that they perpetuate is that the second amendment is so white people can hunt partridge and deer, that burly, uneducated rednecks are the only ones interested in self defense against violent criminals, or fear the inevitable evils of an unrestrained, all-too-powerful State.
The truth is the second amendment is EVERYBODY’s amendment, except the violent felon. It is for: that elderly black woman that owns a very small business and needs to make that late night cash deposit; that 98 lb young asian lady walking to her apartment from her night shift after attending the university; as well as some over rated white guy that makes 17 million dollars per year doing so-called investigative news reports on Sunday night after football.
I’m so sick of the dumbed-down disinformation campaign that we are experiencing in our culture today. I’m so sick of having to refer to people in such terms (black asian woman etc) in order to explain unifying principles.
When is the Left actually going to progress and advance? When, for crying out loud, are they going to evolve? They are dragging us down into a cesspool of regressive thought.
Saltysam on February 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM
MKH has every right to be upset over this incident and to be upset that people here who aren’t her friends are attacking her friend and friendship with him. I hope she appreciates that many of us have been treated far worse by our liberal friends and former friends, and that many of us witnessing Juan’s hurtful behavior toward her hurts us, too, and brings back a lot of anger and pain and regret.
Like Popeye says, “I’ve had alls I cans stand, and I can’t stands no more.” Some of us reach that point sooner than others.
Christien on February 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM
+100
My well of patience with liberals had been creeping toward empty for a long time. What finished it for me was December 14, when within thirty minutes of the news breaking, the trolls were in here ripping us as if we collectively had pulled the trigger on all those children. Not a one of them said the shootings were horrible, though they came here in relays to say the same things. Some seemed to be rubbing their hands together with glee, thinking they could spitefully take away guns with impunity.
Offline, people who know me know better than to have tried that line with me, so the topic never came up.
Liberals have used up my goodwill. Not everyone is as impatient and cynical as I have become, and I have to give them credit for it, I guess. It’s not their opinions that bug me so much, but their presentation and overall demeanor.
Sometimes, the best way to handle poisonous people is with ostracism, the way HuffPo bans conservatives and deletes conservative ideas out of hand.
In my sphere, liberals as a group have gone too far for too long for me to further entertain their nonsense, or grant them a modicum of respect.
Liam on February 15, 2013 at 3:51 PM
That’s quite true. But then MKH was in the center ring in a televised battle of ideas. Her friendship with Juan is important to her and Juan, but not to me, the viewer who is counting on her to uphold my values in the face of liberal cranks. If anything I want to know that MKH isn’t holding back because of her friendship, because then she’s letting her own personal feelings interfere with the job we need her to do – which is to WIN.
The liberal media is our #1 problem, and discrediting their hacks ought to be a top priority if we are to have any hope. Each time we fail to shatter the premises of their arguments before they start, or lose control of the conversation, etc… they gain ground and we lose it.
weew on February 15, 2013 at 3:51 PM
In my experience, many left-leaning people do this stuff because they simply don’t get how ridiculous and repugnant they sound with these kinds of attacks. My inclination in these situations is to forgive the friend, but only after punching back twice as hard, not out of revenge, but simply to forcefully educate them on what it’s like to be on the receiving end.
Back in the Iraq war debates, if they tried to guilt me with any of the usual chicken hawk crap, I’d just ask them if they supported the war against the Taliban, the “good” war for the center left at the time. Then the moment they said yes, hit them with every vile attack the left has ever made against us on this issue. “Why aren’t you over there, then? Why aren’t your kids over there? [I reserve this for people who really have crossed the line and made things personal]. Why are you willing to sacrifice other people’s kids but not your own (as though parents get to “send” their kids to war.)
If they are genuinely remorseful, I’ve found that they back off and apologize, and mostly remember to keep a civil tongue in the future – sometimes it takes a few times before it sinks in, but they can be taught, usually.
RINO in Name Only on February 15, 2013 at 3:57 PM
As long as you do not mind a knife in the back yourself and the knowing your childern and the U.S.A. will be back stabed too, that is your right.
Many of U.S. turned around grabed the knife out of the commie hand who back stabed U.S. and now take the fight to them up front and clear.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 3:59 PM
Why take a stand? Why draw that line in the sand? Why put limits on even something special as friendship?
Because there are times, many times, when not taking a stand, not drawing that line in the sand, and not telling a friend to go pound sand allows terrible horrible things to happen, become accepted, become commonplace.
At some point, it is too late…the clock will not turn back…and what lies ahead may be as sickening, more deadly, more evil that we could ever imagine, once we are sucked into its vortex.
Does anyone truly believe that to a man, woman and child in 1933 Germany every single German was eagerly planning, plotting, striving for their own destruction?
Had they stood up to that little paperhanger and his psychotic friends…well…could have turned out a lot different.
They didn’t. He was just another politician. His friends in their funny uniforms and badges and banners looked like so many school boys out on a camping trip…albeit an often raucous one…just harmless exhuberance…no threat to anyone at all…except maybe to those outside agitators, those communists, and those Jews…and those gays and gypsies…but to us, we good honest hardworking Germans?
What did we have to fear?.
By 1940…they had everything to fear.
Less than the time of a two-term American President…everything had changed.
Not overnight…but forever…nonetheless.
Before anyone goes all Godwin on this…remember:
Fundamentally change the way we are governed…that was a promise.
Just a few short years ago.
coldwarrior on February 15, 2013 at 4:04 PM
My faith tells me to dust off my sandals, when it’s clear the villagers ain’t gettin’ it. And the Golden Rule tells me to do unto others as I would have them do unto me. If I disrespected a friend, I would want them to correct me and give me a chance to make amends. And if I didn’t correct myself, I would want my friend to cut me off until I did to their satisfaction.
Christien on February 15, 2013 at 4:08 PM
My friend, a tiny woman, once ran for public office. As the brickbats and rocks thrown by the mob struck her onstage, she saw the murderous hatred in the eyes of her assailants–her neighbors and friends. She escaped and lay on a hospital gurney soaked in someone else’s blood so that her friends would think she was a goner and wouldn’t finish her off. Somehow, I don’t think she is still friends with them.
Christien on February 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM
Perhaps Mr. Williams needs to ask those who are illegally bringing into DC these weapons why THEY don’t CARE.
SondraK on February 15, 2013 at 4:11 PM
Now Fox is adding Kucinich. And losing audience every month. What do the liberal hacks like Williams add to Fox? If viewers wanted that, they’d could find that on any of the other liberal networks. Fox would be better off debating different conservative ideas from the right instead. Instead we get amnesty shills and gun grabbing.
sauldalinsky on February 15, 2013 at 4:23 PM
ps
I will not tell you how to act nor how to live.
I, well “we” will do what we can to guide you out of harms way.
Still it is the same old deal of each of us with the natural
unalienable rights.
Please understand that many of U.S. lost friends in combat within an arms lenght of them when they died.
Very often we come home to the likes of Juan Williams defending the likes of Lt. John F. Kerry.
Thank you very much.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 4:24 PM
Why doesn’t Juan and his liberal pals care about defenseless victims?
Why do liberals give the violent, the advantage?
Speakup on February 15, 2013 at 4:31 PM
Could not agree more. What good is it being the bigger person while your enemy is running around using every dirty trick in the book. Yes, the left is our enemy. Their leader has said as much.
This is similar to our troops “fighting” in the M.E. They go in with an ROE so restrictive, there really is no other option but to lose.
JAGonzo on February 15, 2013 at 4:31 PM
Quite honestly, we always always win the battle of ideas. That’s why liberals lie and deceive. We don’t lose elections because our values are wrong. We lose because the liberals lie and smear what those values are.
John the Libertarian on February 15, 2013 at 4:33 PM
You need to drop Juan as a “friend.” He sounds like a turd.
BuckeyeSam on February 15, 2013 at 4:36 PM
John,
In truth, we do win the battle of ideas because our values are based on the concrete and the left bases theirs on the abstract (at best). In that sense, rock always smashes scissors. But, Obama still won… largely because the stupid liberal tricks work and we keep trying to win arguments based on their premises.
Out there in the media, if our people are not always crushing them, always playing offense, and always smart enough to not fall for their (by now, embarrassingly predictable) tricks… they they aren’t doing very well by us. This is what we should expect from them ALL.
weew on February 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM
True enough.
Cindy Munford on February 15, 2013 at 4:46 PM
MKH has the restraint and civility of a Saint for her calmness in that situation.
Yakko77 on February 15, 2013 at 4:49 PM
I get where you are coming from, MKH. Abraham Lincoln fought hard to turn his enemies into his friends. And he made sure he did everything he could to keep his friends, even the ones who disagreed with him. Keep up the good fight. You are on the right track.
GiantOrb on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM
Which is why Andrew Brietbart was absolutely correct in stating that the real enemy is the media.
John the Libertarian on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM
And remember that Ronald Reagan and Tip O’Neill would routinely share drinks.
John the Libertarian on February 15, 2013 at 4:51 PM
You have to remember that to a liberal people who disagree with them must be evil. It’s the nastiness endemic to the breed, you might even say their own evil.
Besides, Juan is a moron and a borderline hysteric.
arand on February 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM
Juan,
If you want to walk safely in the big city, carry a big gun. After all, that’s what the criminals are doing, and the law abiding citizens of those locales are not.
Don’t hamstring the law abiders. Arm them.
unclesmrgol on February 15, 2013 at 4:54 PM
Once again, Juan’s a$$ has overloaded his brain.
Mr. Grump on February 15, 2013 at 4:54 PM
John the Libertarian,
1. Ronald Reagan knew better than to trust Tip O’Neill. Every deal they did Reagan got in stone and then followed up to make sure they followed up as promised.
2. Ronald Reagan was a wise one who knew to hold friends close and liar Democrats even closer to have some idea what the trick was before the trap was “Tip’d” .
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 4:56 PM
Um, sorry, but pick an ‘enemy’ of any stripe from history – chances are they had family, loved their pets, enjoyed a fine meal with their friends and family, loved music, etc. *And* they were enemies.
Being bent on your destruction is not in the least mitigated by any other redeeming qualities ‘they’ might have. I guarantee they don’t think better of you because of *your* redeeming qualities – they still want to subject and defeat you.
Midas on February 15, 2013 at 4:59 PM
Yes they are friends. As usual the conservative is polite and the liberal is an idiot; more concerned about their politics than treating people fairly and with respect.
Well Kathryn, will you stop being the door mat? The liberals line Juan Williams call you names, impune your motives and advocate policies that will bankrupt your family and destroy your family. But you are “friends”. And you go out your way to be nice. Is this the way you treat someone coming I to your house to destroy you and your children? I’m thru being nice to liberals that are stupid enough to support those who will destroy my way of life and my country. The liberals look upon you as the enemy and have no regard for truth or ethics and you want them as your “friend”. Not any more. It’s time to fight back.
artman1746 on February 15, 2013 at 5:03 PM
H·A·M
Capitalist Hog on February 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM
The current liberal Democrats see acitions like MKH’s as a sign of weakness only.
We sheep dogs know that the flock is in wolf country now and we are doing out best, but some of the sheep just do not have good judgment when a wolf smiles and shows his teeth. They think it is just that, not the thing just before the bite on the neck.
Juan just may be one more usefull fool used by others with wicked things needing done.
Still notwithstanding how nice he may be at times, the result will be the same loss of freedoms.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM
Ms. Ham,
you consider him a friend, but he considers you the enemy. He personally attacks your motives because he cannot focus on your arguments. He doesn’t respect your beliefs or consider them a difference of philosophy. He would gladly destroy your rights and silence you for what he envisions as paradise.
njrob on February 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM
There are a few liberals in this world who will disagree with a friend politically without attacking them personally. From this exchange, I don’t think that Juan is one of those liberals.
weaselyone on February 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM
Because Reagan was profoundly secure and self-aware, and didn’t confuse the personal and political. In that he was pretty unusual. Also, Reagan didn’t live through what we’re living through, this raging mainstream apotheosis of the Left. But the point isn’t censoring oneself from associations with the Left; it’s to never miss the objectives of the Left and the nature of the war. It’s also a question of one’s personality. Some can break bread with political enemies better than others. Andrew Breitbart was in the Reagan mold — he loved people and loved to mingle with all types. But have we ever had a more capable and clear-eyed fighter?
rrpjr on February 15, 2013 at 5:08 PM
I don’t think that’s really true. I think Juan wants to defend the liberal argument which is hard to do if you have to stick to the facts and debate honestly. Liberal arguments rarely hold up when taken to their logical conclusion.
mike_NC9 on February 15, 2013 at 5:11 PM
MKH is being a bit naive with respect to her rude, bullying friend, Juan. He uses the very same argument when his uber liberal faith gets the better of him. He didn’t even care that his rudeness to a friend was overbearing and just plain wrong!
With friends like Juan, MKH, who needs enemies? As someone else already noted, the fact that Fox now has Kucinidh on board, along with many recent liberal hires, they are beginning to resemble their competitors! Look where that has gotten CNN, MSNBC, etc.!
tomshup on February 15, 2013 at 5:11 PM
The more I see this threads picture in the headlines the more I think MKH has her arms open and hands up saying “boom baby”.
Gatsu on February 15, 2013 at 5:12 PM
Of some note:
It is easy to see from this thread that a turning point has been reached.
It may not be a good thing, but it has come to pass.
Those who seek to tear the U.S.A. apart and down now have U.S. who will stand and fight in the field ready to fight.
It is a new thing to them.
The msm will call names, blame, misdirect, lie, but they now know it is not all John McCain and his gangs of go along.
I will not be easy, it will be long, hard and in the end freedom will still be the only prize.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 5:14 PM
Mary, Mary, Mary. Haven’t you learned yet? The Left has a monopoly on caring and compassion.
Juan says he wants safety when walking the streets. But of course his policy ideas would ensure that decent people are disarmed and vulnerable. They will encourage those who seek to do harm by granting them the confidence of knowing that their victims will not be armed.
But hey, he cares and you don’t.
MJBrutus on February 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM
What you say is good on a macro level: as conservatives we must stop rolling over before liberals. I think you are wrong; however, on a personal level. If we are going to fight back (with people we know), at least let us do so as God would have us:
“Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” – Romans 12:14-21
Othniel on February 15, 2013 at 5:25 PM
This is why I don’t listen to this awful network any longer. They didn’t resolve anything EXCEPT TO MAKE MORE NOISE!! MKH made a good point when she pointed out that even though weapons are flowing into D.C. from Virginia, which was Juan’s reason for the gun violence, Virginia itself does not have the murder rate that D.C. does. So what happened? NOTHING! They just let it drop when they could have battered Williams up, down and all around his pinheaded skull. See? They could have resolved it, but Fox News doesn’t give a damn. All they do is yell and scream and make noise F’ em! I hate that network, because while MSNBC is evil, Fox is supposed to be on our side. They’re on nobody’s side but the big, fat buck, and I aint talking about Bambi, either.
HiJack on February 15, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Well you waded in where no man (or woman) dare go — “Could there be other social problems at play here in these violent cities?” Haven’t you heard? We are not allowed to discuss that. It is, as the saying goes, the elephant in the room, but you will never, not ever, find a liberal willing to discuss it. Easier to call you a knuckle-dragging racist who enjoys dead children. Much easier. And the beautiful irony of it all? Those dead children are money in the bank for these abhorrent, immoral, hideously vicious liberals like Juan — and they know it. Don’t threaten to tackle the tragedy of city-dwelling, fatherless, welfare recipients gunning each other down. That’s the democrat party’s bread and butter. And those dead children? They are a means to an end, much more useful dead than alive to leftists like Juan. He’ll not have you threatening to take away his precious, precious human ammunition.
Rational Thought on February 15, 2013 at 5:27 PM
Shhh, you un-Christian, unfriendly, abstract, conservative, rigid, unbending rube, you :)
The thread proved a few things, for sure:
1. Focus is indignant – the thread is not about friendships…but that is all lost now.
2. Multi-threading with one brain, even for the better brains, especially from the right, is nearly impossible.
3. Meh, on the weaklings who can dish sarcasm but can’t take the slightest comments without having all feathers puffed up.
4. Azzkissers got out too, blaming others for some sort of significance/importance, which they imagined out of thin (hot) air, selectively at that.
5. None of you are the exclusive-with-leftist-friends club. We all put up with our share/s in life, but that was not the topic.
Like I say so often, the land deserves to go to Hades. Rome lasted so much longer.
Schadenfreude on February 15, 2013 at 5:28 PM
MKH and others,
I will put it another way on how nice Juan Williams is.
He would be a great one to be the adminstrator of say “Pine River Indian Reservation”.
The thing is….
His ideas and policies along with other liberals like the Clintons, Obama would in the end establish the “American Pine River Reservation” coast to coast.
Therefore he nor they should not be enabled by you or anyone.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 5:28 PM
Rational Thought on February 15, 2013 at 5:27 PM
Indeed – what all this was meant to be about.
Schadenfreude on February 15, 2013 at 5:29 PM
I don’t know about the. I clearly remember how the media constantly berated Reagan. Even Reagan’s own party demeaned him. The country was just as divided then as it is now. The difference is that the Democratic leadership is so rabid now compared to then. They’re just plain marxist liars anymore.
HiJack on February 15, 2013 at 5:39 PM
Othniel of 5:25 PM
Here is the deal, the real deal in my humble opinion.
Once upon a time , my first time like 3 seconds into an NVA /VC ambush over in Laos some miles.
We all hit the gound, two of us hit bad, only 12 on the team.
I was scared as hell, did not know instant what to do, started to pray. But one of them had me sighted and was about to get the tree I was behind full of holes.
From then on I understood that often the great sprit, God, the creator often had other things on its/his/her/ agenda and left some thing to us to handle on our own.
I still pray, and often back then as we loaded up on a mission some came to me and ask,,”Your that Apache who prays uh!” Would you say a word for me, I have not been that good at it ever.”
I will pray for Juan, not sure if the big guy in the sky will notice.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM
MKH, you need to buy Juan a nice steak…for that eye. I just know that left a mark.
Laura in Maryland on February 15, 2013 at 5:43 PM
Exactly why we have to tackle it. Go straight into the heart of the Leftist kingdom and steal their gold. We’re always playing collegial defense, as if this is all some kind of abstract “debate” and the only goal is to look intelligent and reasonable before the cameras (whatever you do, don’t come off as an “extremist”!). MKH was on to something at the end, actually finessing the compassion Narrative from Juan. Didn’t you see him panic? But this seemed almost like a reaction laced with indignant sarcasm, a defensiveness, not an attack. Attack! Accuse them of abandoning and exploiting inner-city minorities. Get them enraged. Then do it again.
rrpjr on February 15, 2013 at 5:44 PM
Whoah, you’re way off-base with this one. To suggest someone never be friendly with a liberal is just silliness. Do you live in a bubble? Do you disown your children if they don’t follow a strict conservative philosophy?
You can loudly promote and defend your values without having to be an unhelpful, cranky jerk to anyone with an opposing view. Self-segregating yourselves is not helpful.
I can’t imagine how some of you get through a day in real life, where you are often put in situations of having to interact with all kinds of people. If you have a friend or acquaintance who you later learn voted for Obama, do you just cut them off?
Now I can see why some of you go off on self-righteous tantrums whenever anyone in HotAir comments dares express different views than you. It’s immature.
bluegill on February 15, 2013 at 5:47 PM
Good points. Reagan lived through the SAG clashes and the hate throughout his career. But the total mainstream saturation and ferocity of the Left today, and the absence of any foothold of reason, good faith and patriotism within the democrat party, are new.
rrpjr on February 15, 2013 at 5:49 PM
Yes Kim Roy can. I have yet to see that from you though.
sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 5:54 PM
Smooochies backatcha. ;)
Can’t disagree – well said.
kim roy on February 15, 2013 at 6:00 PM
Irony is so indignant that it screams.
The SP-kids can be pretty dedicated. Your hectoring all, who are the slightest different from your views, is well documented on HA. Find a mirror.
p.s. you missed the topic of the thread. It’s not “friendships with leftists”.
Schadenfreude on February 15, 2013 at 6:03 PM
SNORK. If you can’t tell the difference between “opposing views” and the crud that was dished out here, then I can’t help you.
For the record, though, anyone who was brain-dead enough to vote for Obama and all he represents with his corruption and incompetence I don’t want anywhere near me. Why would I want to be friends/acquaintances with someone who is that stupid or destructive? Really? Why? Are these qualities that are desirable for a friend?
Workplace civility yes as that time is not my own and that is being paid for, but otherwise… No thanks.
kim roy on February 15, 2013 at 6:04 PM
SMURF. Well, you do what makes you feel better. But I would suggest that you may be missing out on some meaningful friendships if you are so quick to turn away from someone because of political disagreement.
bluegill on February 15, 2013 at 6:11 PM
MKH:
*Thank you* for speaking “normal” (GASP!: common sense) English:
These a§§h*les need to be told point blank, “up yours, PROVE to me that I don’t care, you hypocrite!” over and over.
Post-sale to “Townhall”, given Allahpundit’s proven record of flacid-ity and Morrisey’s show ability to kow-tow without borders to the RINO faction of Republicans, you are the only hope for this website.
Good luck. My interest in visiting this site decreases daily.
Sorry. But customer “feedback” still ought to mean something.
Czar of Defenestration on February 15, 2013 at 6:13 PM
And, to answer your question, there is more to someone than simply their choice of president.
bluegill on February 15, 2013 at 6:13 PM
C’mon. Liberals are wrong, misguided, often naive, often uninformed, and often highly annoying. But “bent on my destruction”? What, like SS guards?
Grace_is_sufficient on February 15, 2013 at 6:19 PM
Mary Katharine is it possible that you are using the word ‘friend’ in the traditional sense and Juan is using the word in the Washington sense i.e. ‘My friend across the isle’?
meci on February 15, 2013 at 6:21 PM
Well, bless your heart, Juan…my friend.
d1carter on February 15, 2013 at 6:23 PM
Are you the message board police, telling us what the topic is? Sorry, but the “friendship with liberals” issue most certainly did come up, and I was responding to it.
bluegill on February 15, 2013 at 6:24 PM
I’m finding myself more and more just speechless.
The left, the media, celebrities, politicians, Obama worshipers.. depravity is everywhere. People have lost their minds. What else is there to say.
Thank God the left hasn’t yet gotten everything they want. At least not yet. But if and/or when they do.. it will be completely over.
JellyToast on February 15, 2013 at 6:26 PM
The question will then be, “Will they be allowed to keep it?”
Conquest is easy but control is not.
Liam on February 15, 2013 at 6:29 PM
No loss. Plenty of better fish in the sea, so to speak.
Christien on February 15, 2013 at 6:34 PM
fell out of chair, rofl. Ms. fishy never sees the stick in her own eye or up her…
arnold ziffel on February 15, 2013 at 6:35 PM
You know I think subconsciously she does.
She is constantly accusing people of precisely her own behavior. Given the number of times she has done so, that can’t just be a coincidence.
sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 6:40 PM
Define “political disagreement”.
kim roy on February 15, 2013 at 6:48 PM
Hi everyone, don’t mind me, rogerb called in sick today so I’ll be filling in for him.
RINO in Name Only on February 15, 2013 at 6:49 PM
I see what the problem is – you haven’t been paying attention.
Wouldn’t you think the degeneration of society of the past 50 years to be “destructive”?
Or how about taking away your RIGHT to have guns in order to protect you and your family if you so wish? That sounds “destructive”, at least to me.
Or even better, how about taking away your right to have the medical care you want when you want it and turning your care over to faceless bureaucrats and endless wait lists (see: Great Britain and Canada)? That sounds “destructive” to me as well.
There are more, but you get the idea.
kim roy on February 15, 2013 at 6:52 PM
Lol! I’m sure rogerb will be okay with that. Nice job. ; )
Bmore on February 15, 2013 at 7:01 PM
You have made several excellent posts on this thread. It is very difficult to remain friends with those who if they had their way would change our lives for the worse. I do know and like some liberals who are kind and fun to be around—-just a very few ;)
However, I don’t have much respect for them since they choose to be in a party that has no problem with Obama, Biden, Pelosi or Reed.
arnold ziffel on February 15, 2013 at 7:01 PM
Pitiful. Mkat, what do you expect when you engage in the phony dichotomy of rational debate with a lying distortive huckster like Juan Williams. To hell with his supposed earnestness. He’s serially dishonest and blinkered, plays the race card, and grossly distorts the positions held against him. Reading your bleat about it here is nothing more than the parable / fable of the Scorpion and the Frog. Just WTF did you think you were going to get from JUAN WILLIAMS? OR from the phony useless staged gladiatorial top of the hour ‘Issue’ combats put on by cable news?
rayra on February 15, 2013 at 7:04 PM
I have a liberal sister.
We don’t talk about politics. Ever.
sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 7:07 PM
I agree. And I think it’s great how many people “get it” and have “had it.”
rrpjr on February 15, 2013 at 7:08 PM
Someone earlier, might have been you, talked about reaching their tipping point with the ghouls over Sandy Hook. We are long past the “agree to disagree” point. Conservatives try to appeal to reason and logic, libs will not argue from a position of good faith. Look how lib trolls here or in my own life just like to inflame without really wanting a “conversation.” I hate that word now.
arnold ziffel on February 15, 2013 at 7:19 PM
I have one liberal friend I am taking a pretty penny from. Business is business. I will continue to take as much as possible from him. You see in my industry once you have been blackballed you make room to accommodate certain behaviors in order to take their money. I do this with great pleasure. If you knew the amount, you would understand why. Lol!
Bmore on February 15, 2013 at 7:21 PM
Juan is a boot-licking Obama sycophant. If Obama said all Fox News contributors should be imprisoned, Juan would be the first in line at the collection point, praising his hero effusively even as he were being shackled.
I don’t see how it is possible to be a friend of a person so dishonest, deceitful, and supportive of evil.
Adjoran on February 15, 2013 at 7:28 PM
Official: Dorner died from a single gunshot wound to the head.
Ballistics tests will be conducted to determine if his gun was the source. Preliminary tests indicate that it was.
He was NOT burned alive.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/sheriff-says-former-la-cop-dorner-was-hiding-across-street-from-command-post-during-manhunt/2013/02/15/b680c3d6-77cd-11e2-b102-948929030e64_story.html
Resist We Much on February 15, 2013 at 7:48 PM
What a pity. I had rather pleasant mental pictures of him imitating a flaming headcrab zombie.
MelonCollie on February 15, 2013 at 8:08 PM
I don’t think you see it, because you’re work forces both sides to be in close proximity, and that proximity allows relationships to develop. That’s normal, and that’s also why you were so obviously pained when he attacked you. You however, can’t see the forest because you’re standing in it. Many of us who aren’t in the forest see what’s happening. Sides are being chosen.
DFCtomm on February 15, 2013 at 8:14 PM
Caring is for Families and Church.
The FEDERAL Government should not be in the business of caring. That is what has destroyed this country so far, and will continue to lead it into ruin.
Jimmy Doolittle on February 15, 2013 at 8:17 PM
Now all we gotta do is figure out how to work that into a winning political strategy……
Jimmy Doolittle on February 15, 2013 at 8:18 PM
MKH is such an articulate and intelligent speaker.
Juan not quite at that level.
But come on MKH! Don’t start bawling on national TV.
Still though good to see Juan realize he had been rude!
Sherman1864 on February 15, 2013 at 8:20 PM
Juan, you are a JACKASS. Criminals dont obey gun laws!
TX-96 on February 15, 2013 at 8:31 PM
M.M. and spitty were freinds once . . .Sorta.
Texyank on February 15, 2013 at 8:36 PM
Friends like this:?
Earth First
Greenpeace
Al Gore
The CO2 Fraud Crowd
Students for Democratic Society aka SDS
William Ayers
Nancy Pelosi
John Kerry
Bill bj Clinton
Jimmy no gas no guts no jobs Carter
George Soros
Black Panthers
The Chicago Way
California’s sick and they are why.
Obama’s father,
Obama’s teachers
Obama’s EPA
The MSM 60 years of lie based operations
Dan Rather
“The War Is Lost Concrite”
Vietnam Vets are all crazy lies and fraud
MSNBC
PBS
CNN
ABC
CBS
NBC
New York Times to Lie
Alan Combover
Voter Fraud
Lust for illegals for vote slaves
Union Thugs bussing
X
1,000,000 more
Wake up smell the deaths comming.
It is allways the same, History knows,
Why do you hide your mind from the truth.
The Demon of the Real History will come, hooves of Iron, eyes of fire, glowing knowing, angery that you refuse to know the true History he has shown you.
Still you are unmoved by friends like this, knowing but not acting.
APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM
This is actually a very good approach to life, in the long run. It’s not very easy, though. I try to do this but I don’t always succeed. There are always more risks. Risks of making mistakes in friendships. Making mistakes when walking away from friendships. Risks of being misunderstood, being called disloyal, whatever. “Is she for us or against us?” “One day she’s on our side and the next day she’s not” ” If she was a real conservative how come she’s drinking coffee with that guy?” and all that kind of thing. You get twice the arrows because they can come from both sides.
There was this college pastor I knew, for instance, Still know him. He would make me so mad. Very lib in so many ways. Sometimes, at the worst times, just when I thought he had it all together after all.. he says something so hard core liberal I just couldn’t stand it. I wanted to tell the guy “Go away. leave me alone, you are an idiot.” Of course I never did. And near the end of college, my appendix ruptured. Nearly died. This man was there as I was going into the ER from the ambulance. Visited me often and drove me home a week later. He helped me so much. Then when I went into the army from college he offered to store my furniture at his house for free until I got back out. So, we’ve stayed in touch all these years. He’s a good man. You just never know what tomorrow is going to bring. The guy you spit on today might be the only person who pulls up on a deserted highway to offer you help when your car’s broken down. You just never know.
I always like to say I never want to offend anyone.. but as for the truth, if that offends, Not much I can do about it.
The other risk is hanging onto a friendship a bit too long. But, you can’t avoid it. Doing what is right and living by convictions you are opening yourself to betrayals and mistrust. Just the way it is. Look at Jesus. He had similar problems because he stood on similar principles. He would talk with anyone, though. Hang with anyone, and yet never compromise. So, you’re in good company.
JellyToast on February 15, 2013 at 10:12 PM
Don’t take it hard. It was just Juan Williams. Not like it was someone important.
If you enter into a conversation with a liberal under the premise that liberals are dishonest and will say or do anything to make a dishonest point, they will never catch you off guard.
Never underestimate the dishonesty of a liberal.
BruthaMan on February 15, 2013 at 10:31 PM
Simple. Consider MKH’s age. What I was her age, I was pretty optimistic – then again we were just coming off the Reagan era. It took both Bushes and Clinton to get me to the point I wouldn’t p on a RINO, let alone a library because I have seen and even been to that city on the hill and these pathetic politicians are doing their damnest to drive US out and down to that Utopiaville in the name of compassion and emotional feel-goodism. The people are the very whited sepulchres Jesus despised. Of course they are our sworn enemies. Juan is what? 60 years old, has eyes that see and ears that hear, yet his heart and hands rush to theivery and bloodshed? A pox on his ilk. Give MKH another 10th years and she will hate them orbe one with Thx.
AH_C on February 15, 2013 at 10:36 PM
Consider two gun laws: banning guns (the liberal law); and concealed carry (the conservative law). Both are designed to reduce gun violence.
As I understand the evidence, the liberal law does not work and the conservative law does.
How then does this make the liberals the ones how “care” about reducing gun violence.
Let me stick my neck out here. I think the liberals care more about trying to prove a theory of human nature — which keeps not working out. They care more about the first principles of liberalism than about people.
Pythagoras on February 15, 2013 at 11:42 PM
Who needs friends like this?
MT on February 16, 2013 at 12:29 AM
No point in getting worked up about who cares more than the other.
Fixing the problem is caring enough. We don’t have to be bleeding-hearts-on-our-sleeves like Saint Juan Williams.
Williams and the pack of liberal lunatics can “care” all they want. The more they talk about it, the less it is believed.
You have to brush past these irrelevant slights and leave them looking stupid (as they inevitably do) because they just can’t handle the truth.
virgo on February 16, 2013 at 12:47 AM
Yeah, all of us would have liked that consideration for the past four years. I wish I had a dollar for every time Republicans/conservatives heard the word ‘racist’ whenever our disagreement/dissatisfaction with our current president was being analyzed. I could have paid off half the nation’s debt by now. This just strikes me as more of the same. Juan Williams now declares to *know* the mind of the opposition. Such foolishness.
Of course no one can divine motivation, so what practice have liberals decided to adopt instead? They apply an offensive motivation in the hopes of demonizing Republicans and labeling them as uncivilized, uncaring, you name it. It is the tactic itself that needs to have the bright light of day cast squarely on it. Common sense demands that we not make any offensive accusation without supporting facts, and rational, intelligent people don’t participate in such a ridiculous practice. Juan Williams and every liberal just like him needs to be told exactly that the next time they declare to possess such a supreme power.
It’s impossible to prove ourselves innocent of these types of false allegations, but we can certainly point out the absurdity of the liberal claim on omnipotence.
lynncgb on February 16, 2013 at 12:50 AM
I had a disabled online friend of some duration who accused me, during Obamacare, of wanting him to die. We’re not friends anymore.
On the other hand, these TV types have to pretend to be friends, I suppose.
Alana on February 16, 2013 at 1:39 AM
The good and caring people at Huffington Post have taken to displaying montages made up of the faces of victims of gun violence. Of course, it’s just another attempt to use the dead as props for a devious political agenda. And it’s pathetic.
Let’s take Liberals at their word, however, and assume they really do care more about the ravages of crime. OK, we should help them in their effort.
For some reason, the President and his fans choose to focus entirely on the victims. While that might work if your intent was to monger a little fear, it does nothing to address the actual problem. Therefore, in a sincere effort to prove how much we care, I’d like to suggest that Hot Air publish photos of every gun assailant, so we can try to determine if there is a pattern we can use to get criminals off the street.
We know Obama and Holder won’t address the root causes of gun violence, because we know what Ham and Williams were trying to dance around without saying. Until we have the courage to name the problem, what chance do we have to solve it?
Sadly, by trying to deny the facts, we leave our law abiding urban dwellers at the mercy of armed thugs who fear no law and respect no life. The problem isn’t universally monochromatic, but the numbers of African American shooters AND VICTIMS are vastly disproportionate to their representation in the population at large.
AG Holder says we are cowards when we come to the topic of race, and in this instance he is correct. However, by trying to focus our attention away from reality, he and his boss and harming their own people (his words, not mine). The cowardice is cloaked in a PC compliant world where every day is opposite day.
IF Liberals were sincere in their self righteous claims to care, they would drop the pretense that this is an “assault” weapon problem. It isn’t. The problem is predominately urban street crime, committed using stolen weapons.
What’s abundantly clear is that Liberals care more about gun control than they do about protecting their most loyal constituency. And how sad is THAT?
Kenz on February 16, 2013 at 2:34 AM
I am a bit befuddled why you MKH and other “friends” of Juan constantly make excuses for both his outright sophism and personal attacks on your character.
There is a point at which one has to believe that Juan possesses a visceral dislike for people who don’t agree with his worldview, and he masks that proclivity under a congenial veneer.
We can and do agree to disagree with our philosophical adversaries. However, what differentiates today’s denizens of liberalism is the behavior which Juan displayed towards you. That is, when reason, rational exchange, facts and intellectual conversation defeats their arguments- demagoguery, personal attacks and contra-intellectualism ensue. That is not only destructive, unintelligent and despotic, but also “unfriendly”.
I believe most reasonable people relish an argument based on an exchange of ideas and intellectual pursuit which ends in producing verifiable truths. But that is not the modus operandi of many liberals today.
Rather, their sine qua non is a despotic contempt for anyone who disagrees with the very premise of their arguments- no matter how well they try to camouflage it. Unfortunately, that is what I believe happened in your exchange with Mr. Williams.
In my humble opinion Juan rightfully and unarguably deserves both scorn and disengagement until a reasonable amount of respect for both truisms, and you personally, is restored. If not, what does one gain from such endeavors? The answer is nothing worthwhile.
Marcus Traianus on February 16, 2013 at 6:27 AM
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