“Morning Joe” panel: Second look at instituting a public-service draft for young Americans?

posted at 4:41 pm on February 15, 2013 by Allahpundit

This one’s long but stick with it. The good stuff doesn’t start happening until after we’re treated to the thousandth iteration of Charlie Rangel’s master plan to end war as we know it by reinstituting a military draft which virtually no one supports and which Congress will never again feel safe voting for. A draft which, incidentally, he thinks should now include women:

“Now that women can serve in combat they should register for the Selective Service alongside their male counterparts,” Rangel said in a statement. “Reinstating the draft and requiring women to register for the Selective Service would compel the American public to have a stake in the wars we fight as a nation. We must question why and how we go to war, and who decides to send our men and women into harm’s way.”…

“The Congress never gets a chance to vote up and down on these war questions. Every president just puts our kids in harm’s way and we just foot the bill, but there’s no real sacrifice in what’s going on. Less than 1 percent of American families are involved in the military and they really pay the price for it,” he said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.”

He’s right that Congress doesn’t always get a chance to vote. They didn’t get to vote on Libya, for instance, because King Barack chose to ignore the War Powers Resolution. They did get to vote to authorize military force against Al Qaeda after 9/11; that one passed 420-1, with Charlie Rangel in the majority. To understand his position here, though, you need to realize two things. One: He thinks being a soldier is something only the poor and uneducated do because they’re not qualified to do anything else. That’s egregiously incorrect but it’s useful as a way to discredit basically all military action in a draftless age as exploitative and illegitimate (except for the actions Rangel voted for, I guess). Two: If you agree with the objection raised by the panelist in the clip that a conscripted military would perform more poorly than a voluntary force, you’re missing the point. Degrading military capabilities is a feature of this strategy, not a bug; the whole idea is to give the president and Congress additional reasons — logistical and political — not to undertake military action, irrespective of whether action might be warranted. When you pare away the politesse, what Rangel’s really saying is that his colleagues don’t care about needlessly sacrificing American lives, they only care about whether they’ll suffer political consequences for sacrificing them, the odds of which would be increased by a draft. If that’s true, we don’t need a draft, we need a new Congress. Maybe he’ll name names and tell us who should be replaced.

But never mind all that. The real hook here is his idea for an alternative to the draft: Instead of being forced to serve your country militarily, you’d have the choice of being forced to serve your country in some other “public interest” capacity instead. Involuntary servitude in the form of conscription used to be justified as warranted only in urgent matters of national defense, but the master planners of tomorrow like Charlie Rangel and Scarborough and a palpably enthusiastic Carl Bernstein see a lot of compulsory nation-building here at home that can be done by America’s 18-year-olds. Bernstein specifically mentions infrastructure work as a possibility and goes so far as to suggest using currently inoperative military bases as … barracks to house the public-service conscripts, I guess? Not sure. (Reason’s Matt Welch once described the idea of mandatory national service as a “militaristic conception of citizenship.” He didn’t know the half of it.) But if you’re a high-school senior who’s thinking about premed or whatever, good news — you might get to spend two years jackhammering bridges as part of some sort of stimulus plan before getting on to that. For all the heat our side produces about infringements on liberty from gun control, the casualness with which the idea of forced youth labor for the greater good is kicked around here strikes me as much creepier. But then, gun control might possibly, conceivably happen in a few years if Democrats take back the House. This won’t. That’s why the former gets more heat.

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

“Why can’t we do things more like the Chinese?” in action.

I must admit the thought of sending the residents of the ivory towers out to the countryside to shovel manure for few years does have a certain appeal to it.

Drained Brain on February 15, 2013 at 4:46 PM

On the one hand, haven’t our armed services become far too specialized for that?

On the other hand, putting everyone through boot camp would be a great way to produce a generation of conservatives.

John the Libertarian on February 15, 2013 at 4:48 PM

Well if the gals want to be in combat and they do have a ‘draft’ they should be required to do as the guys do?

This isn’t going to fly. No one wants a draft unless bho wants ‘his military’ as big as our regular military! Didn’t I hear bho say something like that before?
L

letget on February 15, 2013 at 4:49 PM

Die Obama Jugendbewegung?

aquaviva on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Ever notice how the public servants advocating this nonsense do a horrific job themselves of serving the public?

Christien on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM

If you agree with the objection raised by the panelist in the clip that a conscripted military would perform more poorly than a voluntary force, you’re missing the point.

2/3rds of those in vietnam were volunteers, and 2/3rds of those fighting in World War Two were drafted.

Instead of being forced to serve your country militarily, you’d have the choice of being forced to serve your country in some other “public interest” capacity instead.

I don’t like this at all.

They could place Obama’s Civilian Security Force here and a lot of fools would support it. No thanks.

sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Putting people that don’t want to be there would just make about 100,000 Bradley Mannings.

portlandon on February 15, 2013 at 4:52 PM

Uh, yes, of course this is the solution. Cuz once the $9 to “livable wage” passes there will be NO FREAKIN JOBS for 18 year olds. So, what the heck, might as well enslave them to public service so they can really buy into group think.

Alibali on February 15, 2013 at 4:55 PM

…well, that’s what they get for not putting Charley in jail!

KOOLAID2 on February 15, 2013 at 4:55 PM

That ‘H’ guy had his ‘brown shirts’ what will bho have, ‘bho’s purple shirts’ doing his every evil will?
L

letget on February 15, 2013 at 4:55 PM

Isn’t there something that prohibts involuntary servitude except for punishment of crime…oh yeah, its called the Thirteenth Amendment.

Conservative in NOVA on February 15, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Yes, slave labor for lefty causes…no thanks!

Blake on February 15, 2013 at 4:56 PM

I support this idea. We stop teaching kids civics in public school, and then force them to potentially go work contruction for our national infrastructure? Either it’ll teach kids the value of hard work or make them not want to vote Democrat ever again. It’s a start, for certain…

…unless said children who aren’t educated in civics are sent to work in government, which I sense could be the way Democrats correct the initial error of forcing high school graduates into hard labor while expecting them to still support Democrats.

mintycrys on February 15, 2013 at 4:57 PM

They will not be shoveling dirt or doing manual labor or anything useful. They will be conducting diversity training and recycling awareness training and whatever other nonsense would pass for “service” in the liberal lexicon.

notropis on February 15, 2013 at 4:57 PM

Do any other nations on earth do this?

Fezzik on February 15, 2013 at 4:57 PM

So. Per Rangle, we need to have an military that’s forced to serve rather than one which chooses to serve.
Additionally, he wants those forced to serve, to go into battle at Congress’s behest ?

That means forced to serve, and possibly die by someone they did not choose to represent them.

Not gonna work.

Jabberwock on February 15, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Do any other nations on earth do this?

Fezzik on February 15, 2013 at 4:57 PM

Old Soviet Union used to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komsomol

sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Why not just concentrate on the rich kids? With a few adjustments in wording, Obama’s speeches will contextualize the need – the fairness – of a Chinese-style Down to the Countryside Movement.

“There’s nothing new under the sun” really applies to new-sounding progressive ideas.

Drained Brain on February 15, 2013 at 5:01 PM

The real hook here is his idea for an alternative to the draft: Instead of being forced to serve your country militarily, you’d have the choice of being forced to serve your country in some other “public interest” capacity instead.

That’s what we call slavery. Military service is the sole exception.

Othniel on February 15, 2013 at 5:04 PM

I am sure rhe world would be better off if Albert Einstien had spent two of his moat productive years that way.

tmitsss on February 15, 2013 at 5:05 PM

They could form traveling road shows… call it “Up with Sheeple”.

Marcola on February 15, 2013 at 5:06 PM

They didn’t get to vote on Libya, for instance, because King Barack chose to ignore the War Powers Resolution.

I’m starting to think you don’t like him very much.

BobMbx on February 15, 2013 at 5:09 PM

You’ll never have mandatory public service for the young because the unions will never go along. That is work they want for their membership.

Mark1971 on February 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM

This is just crap….I have 5 daughters (and we are not in any way rich), 2 of whom are “drafting age” at the moment. Funny thing is, I don’t support any of this stuff.
I am sick and tired of being swept in with the people who make this stuff up.
My daughters don’t want to be on any front lines nor so they want to be drafted into comnunity service for this wretched government.
It is all so maddening.
Sorry to sound so self serving, but my hunch is that lots of others feel the same.

redlucy on February 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Conservative in NOVA on February 15, 2013 at 4:56 PM

They’re just squaring the circle…

Feudal serfs were levied to labor for their lord, at his command, and for whatever he saw fit.

(Why should the 13th, or the Constitution be any less disregarded by the finest Constitutional Scholar in the land… /)

CPT. Charles on February 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM

OT, kind of…Obama thinks this is a problem.

Schadenfreude on February 15, 2013 at 5:16 PM

Conscription for Obama’s Civilian National Security Force that he talked about in 2008….
the only question is whether they’ll have Brown, or Black, Shirts?

Another Drew on February 15, 2013 at 5:17 PM

Schadenfreude on February 15, 2013 at 5:16 PM

Thanks, I needed that funny of the day! WOW poor little wanna be king/dictator just can’t get American’s or the Constitution to agree to let him be ‘king’!

BTW, bho and mo act like ‘king and queen’ here the way they act!
L

letget on February 15, 2013 at 5:20 PM

Mandatory volunteerism. How deliciously Orwellian.

RobertE on February 15, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Nice to see the fascists on the left admitting to their totalitarianism.

Isn’t that the very definition of totalitarian? “Forget what you thought you wanted to do! If we want to make you spend a year or two of your life working for the government, then you just need to be a good citizen and obey!”

This used to be a free country…..

tom on February 15, 2013 at 5:34 PM

nice to see the rural south being over represented in the military.

The south will rise again. You Betcha!

renalin on February 15, 2013 at 5:35 PM

This is just crap….I have 5 daughters (and we are not in any way rich)

redlucy on February 15, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Well, you wouldn’t be, would you – and I only have two! :)

OldEnglish on February 15, 2013 at 5:39 PM

Sadly, there was a so-called conservative poster here making the same arguments as Rangle in a recent QOTD. She even threw out the typical leftist BS arguments of “fairness” and “shared sacrifice”, lol. Pathetic.

xblade on February 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM

First they drive up teen and young adult unemployment now they want to draft them into the Obama youth.

I’d feel outraged but they did vote for him so as Mencken said they deserve to get it good and hard.

agmartin on February 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM

A draft which, incidentally, he thinks should now include women:

Well, of course it should now include women, if there is ever a draft (which I doubt and do NOT agree with).

However, SCOTUS held Selective Service requirement for males as Constitutional only because women weren’t eligible for combat duties. That no longer stands.

Women should be required by law to sign up with Selective Service, the same as our young men. After all, this is about fairness and equality, right?

ladyingray on February 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM

Do any other nations on earth do this?

Fezzik on February 15, 2013 at 4:57 PM

Um, Israel.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2012/12/14/national-service-supports-innovation-and-job-creation

cam2 on February 15, 2013 at 6:11 PM

Notice that it is always the ones who wouldn’t be affected doing
the suggesting.

Amjean on February 15, 2013 at 6:13 PM

I don’t like this at all.

They could place Obama’s Civilian Security Force here and a lot of fools would support it. No thanks.

sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM

But imagine the galvanizing patriotism! No more bitter clinging! Young persons getting a final mega-dose of correct citizenship training under the direct auspices of the National government before starting out as full citizens!

I can’t help it. I have to link this now.

Axe on February 15, 2013 at 6:14 PM

But imagine the galvanizing patriotism! No more bitter clinging! Young persons getting a final mega-dose of correct citizenship training under the direct auspices of the National government before starting out as full citizens!

Axe on February 15, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Come on man, that couldn’t happen here! /sarc

sharrukin on February 15, 2013 at 6:31 PM

They can totally do this…

1. Join the military.

or

2. Join Organizing for America.

Democrat Cabal swells to epic proportions.

BigWyo on February 15, 2013 at 6:32 PM

The draft never went away. Granted it doesn’t (?) apply to women, but it has been there for ever.

You know who the biggest opponents of the draft are?

Professional warfighters.

CorporatePiggy on February 15, 2013 at 6:52 PM

OT, kind of…Obama thinks this is a problem.

Schadenfreude on February 15, 2013 at 5:16 PM

He actually said that! He actually said that…

The problem is……..”I am not the Emperor of the US”?

I have now heard it all from the louse in the house…

Scrumpy on February 15, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Don’t 18 yr old males already have to register for ‘service’?

I know it’s not conscription, but they know who they are and where they are, right?

As far as I remember Germany has their 18yr old males serve 2 years in the Military… not sure if females have to do the same.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, on one hand I don’t like the idea of forcing anyone to ‘join up’, but on the other hand, perhaps 2 years in military
service, would perhaps cut down on delinquency, teach them some integrity honour a sense of duty?

Gonna duck n run for a while…

Scrumpy on February 15, 2013 at 7:14 PM

Ramgel’s still serving and not in jail? Wow we are one effed up country.

CW on February 15, 2013 at 7:18 PM

on one hand I don’t like the idea of forcing anyone to ‘join up’, but on the other hand, perhaps 2 years in military service, would perhaps cut down on delinquency, teach them some integrity honour a sense of duty?

Scrumpy on February 15, 2013 at 7:14 PM

I get where you’re coming from, but with our culture the way it is, you’d have fusterclucks of epic scale before you managed to beat some sense into any real amount of liberally-indoctrinated youth.

MelonCollie on February 15, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Between this proposal and Obama’s forced preschool, the Dem’s must think 12-years of indoctrination in public schools is not enough. The Dems could give the Communist Chinese some real competition if only the Dems knew how to manage spending and confiscation better.

HoosierStateofMind on February 15, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Why is that criminal not in jail.

Ah …

Okay.

hawkdriver on February 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM

As a former Sergeant of Marines, who volunteered to serve a week after Saddam invaded Kuwait, I vote NO. Military service in a Republic is not for slaves, it is for volunteers.

quikstrike98 on February 15, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Is Charlie Rangel still alive?

GarandFan on February 15, 2013 at 9:12 PM

nice to see the rural south being over represented in the military.

The south will rise again. You Betcha!

renalin on February 15, 2013 at 5:35 PM

Been that way for quite awhile. All of my Drill Instructors were from south of the Mason-Dixon line. Black and White. Most of the best Officers (and almost all of the hardcore Marine Officers)at the start of WWII, were from the South.

98ZJUSMC on February 15, 2013 at 10:08 PM

As a former Sergeant of Marines, who volunteered to serve a week after Saddam invaded Kuwait, I vote NO. Military service in a Republic is not for slaves, it is for volunteers.

quikstrike98 on February 15, 2013 at 8:35 PM

Agreed. Not to mention that, the logistics alone would be mind boggling.

98ZJUSMC on February 15, 2013 at 10:10 PM

A standing mercenary army. We wouldn’t need one if we minded our own business and actually declared our wars instead authorizing them. I was drafted in 1969 and sent to fight in war with over ten times the casualty rate as this one. And if that was the case now we wouldn’t be fighting it with volunteers. Their suicide rate exceeds the combat casualty rate so somebody doesn’t think the volunteer army is so great.

bluesdoc70 on February 15, 2013 at 10:36 PM

Well we have an economic issue; lets make everyone work for the benefit of the government for 4 years to help solve it.

Whoops, not solved yet, we need 10 years of your life.

Hmm, still an issue, 20 years might do it.

Sorry, still having economic issues, you’re now a ward of the state for life… but it’s for the good of everyone that you’re a slave.

Rangel, We allow the draft for a war required for the security and preservation of the nation as a whole… not because you want to make people do things.

How do liberals not get this? I know they’re power-hungry and looking for control; but working down the slippery slope to slavery seems overboard even for them doesn’t it?

Maybe I’m still giving them too much credit. That’s a terrifying thought.

gekkobear on February 16, 2013 at 12:17 AM

Another term for the draft is “Forced Indentured Servitude” – AKA Slavery.

Military service is the only form of Indentured Servitude still officially legal in the US.
[Name me any other job where it is a felony to just up and quit -
desertion still carries up to and including the death penalty under Federal Law.]

This is proposing Slavery without the justification of a Major War.

But then, what do you expect out of the party of slaveowners?
After all, Sociallism is just the Master-Slave Compact repackaged…
[AKA Lord-Serf or Lord-Peasant Compact - the basis of the dictitorial rule of Kings that the US was founded in rebelion from.]

DJ Elliott on February 16, 2013 at 12:41 AM

I’d feel outraged but they did vote for him so as Mencken said they deserve to get it good and hard.

agmartin on February 15, 2013 at 5:40 PM

I take your point, but it’s young people who aren’t yet voting age who would likely get ensnared in this, including my kids, who definitely would not have voted for Obama.

Mr. D on February 16, 2013 at 9:53 AM

Back in the day we called it C.C.C. (Civilian Conservation Corps.) Of course it was voluntary.

Herb on February 16, 2013 at 10:15 AM

Whenever you hear a man speak of his love for his country, it is a sign that he expects to be paid for it.
H. L. Mencken

donabernathy on February 16, 2013 at 11:12 AM

Rangel never stops with this. First, I thought it was to shame Republicans during the Iraq war, but now he just wants to annoy everyone, including Democrats. It may be his only original thought.

As for questioning our military adventures?…. Didn’t he get the memo? And isn’t it his job to do that. He’s the one in Washington.

Why not force people to serve in Congress? Or force them to be hair-dressers? We need more doctors – let’s force them to be doctors. Libraries are empty – let’s force people to read books. We need new faces in Hollywood – let’s force people into acting in movies – can’t be worse than the current crop of celebrities.

virgo on February 16, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Die Obama Jugendbewegung?

aquaviva on February 15, 2013 at 4:50 PM

I like the idea. Which language is that? :)

Archivarix on February 18, 2013 at 8:48 AM

He brought some much needed perspective to us as he recounted the list of his friends and fellow warriors who did not survive to experience their own family reunions, and they were numerous indeed.

Years ago, as we looked at my father’s photo of CO “A” 19th ARMD. INF. BN. CAMP CAMPBELL KY 1944. I will never forget him looking at the photo, bending over to look at each face up close, pointing and saying, “That’s (so-and-so), from (name of town or state.) He didn’t make it. That’s (so-and-so), from (name of town or state.) He didn’t make it…” Over and over again. My family has a history of fighting in every war for the United States all the way back to the Revolutionary War, but we also have the fortunate history of having most of our soldiers returning home alive. For those who didn’t, know that their loved ones were thought of often by the survivors.

When he was dying, Pops travelled back to WWII. He asked me if I was a good soldier. I told him, “Yes. I was.” He smiled and affirmed, “Good.” I won’t forget that. He was a country kid from the North Woods who enlisted at 18 years old. Later in the war, he served as a medic. He was a humble and, at times, troubled man but he was a good man, a good soldier, a good husband and a great dad. Miss you, Pops.

Fallon on May 27, 2013 at 10:24 AM

God protect the patriots who defend our freedom and our great country..

God bless the ones who have laid down their lives to defend this great country..

Dire Straits on May 27, 2013 at 4:15 PM