Quotes of the day

posted at 10:31 pm on February 7, 2013 by Allahpundit

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the Obama administration will not be releasing any more information about the controversial use of drones to kill American citizens.

Carney’s remarks, via the White House’s transcript of the off-camera press gaggle:

“This is not an open-ended process. This is a specific and unique accommodation in this circumstance. The fact is, when it comes to public disclosure, we have been — not with the kind of attention that’s been given it this week — but we have been publicly discussing these matters at the highest levels of government for the very reason that I’ve given, which is the President understands that these are core issues about how we conduct ourselves in war, how the President of the United States — any President — balances his constitutional obligation to protect America and American citizens, and his obligation to do so in a manner that is lawful under the Constitution and reflects our values.”

***

President Obama’s white paper justification for carrying out drone strikes against U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism could “swallow the rule” guaranteeing the due process rights of Americans, Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, suggested today…

“You would think that consistent with the principles of due process, the government shouldn’t be able to kill one of its own citizens without some kind of showing that they present an imminent threat,” he continued. “But when you dig a little bit deeper into this white paper . . . they have sort of a loose [definition] of ‘imminent’.”…

The former appellate lawyer also criticized the White House for failing to identify a constitutional principle that would prevent the U.S. military from carrying out a drone strike on a suspected American terrorist in the United States.

***

It may be true that, even when it comes to the first two conditions, the “informed, high-level officials” in the Obama administration—including Brennan, who has been deeply involved in these decisions—have exercised good judgment. But we don’t know this; we have no way of knowing this. And by “we,” I mean not just those of who of us who don’t have the proper security clearances, but also those who do (outside, of course, the very small group that makes the decisions of life or death).

And that’s the point. The white paper acknowledges that there is no entity—in the executive, legislative, or judicial branch—that has the authority to oversee these sorts of decisions. But maybe there should be. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who co-chairs the Intelligence Committee, suggested at Thursday’s hearing that an analog to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court might be created to sign off on these orders, especially if American citizens are the targets. Not a bad idea.

But the logic of the three conditions—or at least the two conditions that aren’t at all restrictive—raises questions not just of legality but of policy. Gen. David Petraeus once said of the Iraq war, “Tell me how this ends.” The same question can be asked of this war. Are there no limits to targeted assassination? Are we going to be doing this as long as terrorist organizations exist? What is the effect? Does it really reduce terrorism and pummel the organization—or are the killed leaders simply replaced by underlings waiting in the wings?

***

Further, in addition to checks and balances, there has to be more transparency. The notion that the government can compile a list of citizens for killing, not tell anyone who’s on it or how they got there, is simply un–American. Surely, a modern version of a WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE notice could be publicly circulated, with a listing of the particulars. Maybe the named individual would turn himself in rather than wait for the drones to find him. Or maybe he’d hire an attorney to present evidence he’s not actually an imminent threat to American citizens.

For centuries, civilized societies have understood that even wars must be fought according to rules, which have developed over time in response to changing realities. Rules are even more important in endless, murky wars such as the fight against Islamist terror groups. Currently, we’re letting whomever is in the Oval Office pick and choose from among the existing rules, applying and redefining them based on his own judgment and that of his advisors. We can do better.

***

During the hearing, Feinstein forcefully insisted that the CIA’s drone strikes kill only “single digits” of civilians annually, and even ran through a list of accusations against Anwar al-Awlaki, the U.S. citizen and al-Qaida propagandist the U.S. killed in Yemen in 2011, to underscore her belief in the legitimacy of the killing. She suggested that media reports and nongovernmental organization studies claiming larger percentages of civilian deaths from the highly classified program are ignorant. Feinstein emphasized that the CIA has hosted committee staff over 30 times to conduct oversight over the drone program…

Yet Feinstein and several other senators during the hearing said the CIA materially misrepresented to Congress key facts about the quality of information it received from its post-9/11 torture and detentions program. That revelation came from the committee’s recently completed 6,000-page report into those programs. But since the report is still classified, senators couldn’t say outright that the CIA lied to them. Brennan said that the misstatements made by CIA about torture called into question the basis for his public statements years ago that torture extracted valuable information for counterterrorist operations. “I have to determine what the truth is,” Brennan said.

But if the CIA misled Congress about torture, how can the committee be confident it’s not misleading Congress about civilian deaths from drones?

***

Can we learn at least a little from the past? And not the distant past, either. Enough of the detainees at Gitmo were wrongly held so that you’d figure Obama (didn’t he pledge to shut that prison down?) would want to make double-plus sure that he’s targeting the right bastards?…

By making clear that as a journalist he tries to see things first and foremost from the perspective of the powerful, Michael Tomasky helps to clarify why so many in the media are rushing to the president’s defense. They are entranced with power and the view from the top. “Presidents live with that responsibility [of protecting American lives] every day,” he writes. “If that responsibility were mine, I can’t honestly say what I’d do, and I don’t think anyone can.” Not all journalists are awed by power, of course, even on the right (National Review’s Jim Geraghty, for instance, asserts that this sort of thing of extra-judicial killing policy wouldn’t be cricket even under a GOP president).

This isn’t ultimately about ideological hypocrisy – of liberals changing their tune once their guy is in office – but something much more basic and much more disturbing. It reveals that for all their crowing about being watchdogs of all that is good and decent in society, when push comes to shove, too many journalists are ready and willing handmaidens to power – including the power to kill.

***

The white paper has ignited not quite a firestorm (again, this isn’t the Bush administration), but at least a smoldering ember of brow-furrowed consternation among the president’s supporters and journalistic sympathizers who find the document “chilling.”

They rarely say what their alternative would be. Does a U.S. citizen get an exemption from targeting if he joins Al Qaeda at a high level? Should his status be litigated before he can be targeted, and if so, by whom and for how long and on the basis of what evidence? Can he show up in the court room to confront his accusers, a basic element of the Anglo-American system? Should al-Awlaki have gotten a court-appointed lawyer (assuming Gloria Allred wasn’t available) and access to all the intelligence about him so he could properly contest it? Maybe over Skype from somewhere in the badlands of Yemen?…

It’s not for nothing that the author of the white paper sounds like he could have worked for Dick Cheney. The Obama administration’s approach reflects the logic of the laws of war, the structure of American government and the exigencies of the fight against Al Qaeda.

***

By including terrorists among those afforded constitutional protections, the president’s policy risks stretching those protections a mile wide and an inch deep—weakening them for all Americans.

Then there’s the question of whether Mr. Obama’s approach really uses “our values as a compass.” After he took office, the president made a great show of ending enhanced interrogation, which CIA directors say produced much of the intelligence used to locate al Qaeda leaders including Osama bin Laden. The Bush administration had subjected about 100 al Qaeda detainees to some tough methods, including three to waterboarding.

Rather than capture terrorists—which produces the most valuable intelligence on al Qaeda—Mr. Obama has relied almost exclusively on drone attacks, and he has thereby been able to dodge difficult questions over detention. But those deaths from the sky violate personal liberty far more than the waterboarding of three al Qaeda leaders ever did.

***

Our president has the authority to quell insurrections by force. American-born terrorists engage in insurrection. Case closed.

Consider the late Anwar al-Awlaki. Lefties argue he didn’t pose a sufficient threat to merit killing. Really? Here’s a traitor who joined our most virulent enemies and used his knowledge of our country to encourage, plan and facilitate attacks. His guilt was greater than that of some poor sap who strapped on a suicide bomb — just as crime bosses bear a heavier guilt than their trigger-men.

And if a foreign power can’t or won’t control its own territory, we have a legal right to intervene under the accepted conventions of warfare…

This is not a difficult issue: When Americans turn violently against the United States, they lose the benefits of citizenship

[T]he drone program’s the only Obama-era policy that works.

***

“I want everybody that said what they said about George W. Bush…I want those people to apologize to George W. Bush.”

***


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@Axe Stop it. I may be a vam*ire, but not a chick. Lol

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Tommy is no chick!! I know… ;-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Bmore-

I’m living on my country estate, that’s a place that’s too small to farm and too big to mow, in east central Nebraska.

countrybumpkin on February 7, 2013 at 11:19 PM

@Scrumpy Thank you, my dear. ;-)

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:19 PM

Tommy is no chick!! I know… ;-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Well that’s . . . something I’m not asking about.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:19 PM

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:09 PM

Still trying to figure the whole drone thingy out. I made a few comments on the drone thread. I like killing the AlQueida folks. They earned it. Its just a couple of other things that bug me about it. Primarily who and how it is being authorized. I will add this though.I am still not with code pink on anything so far.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:20 PM

…some of these peoples “prayers” are with him!…Holy cow!

KOOLAID2 on February 7, 2013 at 11:12 PM

Yeppers. As you read those tweets, did the schizophrenia epidemic on the Left cross your mind?

The people, who are praying for the cop killer and hoping for more cop deaths, are the same people that want the government to do everything for them. Who do they think the police are?

THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

countrybumpkin on February 7, 2013 at 11:19 PM

Great description. Lol! I’m in Ga.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

AND, members of public sector unions!!

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

One needs to find some good old war porn as a palette cleanser. One where an apache or A-10 take out the bad guys who are just walking in a field. Sure the drone saw them plant the IED but, the whole country of Iraq was not a battle field. They did not have to look at the passport of birth certificate of the person to make sure they are not American and give them due process before the 50 Caliber tore in half or the hellfire missile made in to a pile of goo.

Shot first ask question later and then but make up a good reason why before you stumble and give a dumb reason why.

tjexcite on February 7, 2013 at 11:22 PM

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:00 PM

Its usually the poor trash that does the real fighting anyway;)

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM

Lets see if the filter will let it through this time:

Sung to the tune of “Send in the Clowns”

Michelle´s a b!7(# , aren´t we a pair?
Me here at last in DC,
Drones in the air.
Send in the drones.

Isn´t it bliss, Don´t you approve?
The one who keeps tearing it up;
Constitution no more.
Where are the drones? Send in the drones.

Just when I declared all of those wars
Finally taking away all that was yours.
Making my speeches again with my usual flair
Teleprompter my lines, ´cause nothing is here.

Don´t you love Farce? My rule you´ll fear
I thought you´d want what I want.
Not sorry, you fear, But where are the drones?
There must be more drones. Quick, send in more drones.

What a surprise, who could foresee?
I´ve come to hate you even more than you hate of me.
Why only now have you started to see, that all I say.
Is all lies, my life a cliche.

Michelle´s a b!7(# , but me you should fear.
Taking your freedom, the point of my career.
And where are the drones? Quick send in the drones.
Don´t bother, they´re there.

LegendHasIt on February 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM

;-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:08 PM

Huh? I don’t think of you that way. You are a very pretty lass in my mind.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:24 PM

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:17 PM

Not really too fond of that guy(Lincoln) but there is a family history there anyway.

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:25 PM

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:21 PM

Obama phone people and related are not smart.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:26 PM

Dire…

KCB on February 7, 2013 at 11:26 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:24 PM

I forgot me sarc tag…

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:27 PM

tjexcite on February 7, 2013 at 11:22 PM

I used to hang around at Dollards site early on in the Iraq war. He always cued up some great stuff. One of my all time fav’s was an Apache hit on four guys where the dog on the ground near them senses something bad is fixing to go down. That dog makes me laugh. Dogs are great animals that way. ; )

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:27 PM

One of the reasons Islam believes they’re winning is that we aren’t willing to kill whomever we have to or really torture whomever it takes, to be victorious.

For jihadis we’re weak and morally decrepit, deserving to all burn to death, or be beheaded in the most hideous way.

But that’s Ok, the American’s they kill can take solace in that they died while we protected our stupid sentimentality.

Speakup on February 7, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Howdy Dire !

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

I forgot me sarc tag…

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:27 PM

Formatting aside you must now share a photo. ; )

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

LegendHasIt on February 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM

Excellent!

——–
BMore, my problem is not with droneing terrorists. My huuuuge problem is that it begins with them, then the tea party is next, then all of us…the slope is very slippery if the laws are selectively enforced. Think about it hard.

I want all terrorists dead.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

Obama phone people and related are not smart.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:26 PM

You have a flair for the understatement.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

How do I do that on here?

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

This is not a difficult issue: When Americans turn violently against the United States, they lose the benefits of citizenship…

And when the government turns violently against its citizens, they should lose the benefit of their governance.

If you get my drift.

LegendHasIt on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

The execution programme is quite different. It is the specific targeting of Americans that is problematic because they are entitled to a modicum of due process.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:02 PM

Not in a war they aren’t.

This isn’t the New York Police Department we are talking about. You keep trying to present it as a law enforcement problem and it isn’t one.

Their citizenship is totally irrelevant.

In law enforcement being a non-citizen doesn’t mean its open season on you because you don’t carry an American passport. They cannot summarily execute you if you happen to be from Spain.

War is something else entirely, and being an American citizen doesn’t protect you.

sharrukin on February 7, 2013 at 11:31 PM

You have a flair for the understatement.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM

As I typed it a voice in my head said “the obvious is indignant” :)

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:31 PM

You have a flair for the understatement.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:29 PM

Heh, the left accuse me of hyperbole :)

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:31 PM

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

You have my interest!

KCB on February 7, 2013 at 11:32 PM

The execution programme is quite different.
Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:02 PM

It’s program, good one :)

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:32 PM

O is more and more behaving like a king. No checks and balances, no oversight. Executive orders galore. And secrecy reigns. Not good for the office of the Presidency.

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:33 PM

This is not a difficult issue: When Americans turn violently against the United States, they lose the benefits of citizenship…

And when the government turns violently against its citizens, they should lose the benefit of their governance.

If you get my drift.

LegendHasIt on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

Just who do9 you think you are? Some old dead white guys? ;p

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:33 PM

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:24 PM

Good cartoon..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:33 PM

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

Then we are in agreement mostly. ; )

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:28 PM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM

In law enforcement being a non-citizen doesn’t mean its open season on you because you don’t carry an American passport. They cannot summarily execute you if you happen to be from Spain.

sharrukin on February 7, 2013 at 11:31 PM

Then why are you defending the President’s right to summarily execute you when you aren’t on American soil?

The power is too broad.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

Feinstein forcefully insisted that the CIA’s drone strikes kill only “single digits” of civilians annually

Oh, well, then. Carry on.

John the Libertarian on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

KCB on February 7, 2013 at 11:26 PM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

Just who do you think you are? Some old dead white guys?
SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:33 PM

Not quite dead yet.
Soon though, I expect.

LegendHasIt on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the Obama administration will not be releasing any more information about the controversial use of drones to kill American citizens.”

Let that sink in for a while peeps…

… Really, just ponder what has happened here.

I’m sure the Founding Fathers had this in mind, they just forgot to write it down in the Constitution…

Seven Percent Solution on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

How do I do that on here?

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

These little boxes we type into won’t work you have to upload to a place and then link. Like I do when I show you all photos of stuff. Like this.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Just watch the slope. Hitler did most all in the name of “national security” and the populace let him.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:33 PM

We traded one monarchy for another, how ironic the words of Benjamin Martin in the Patriot!

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:38 PM

John the Libertarian on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

Excellent post..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Scrumpy, friendly advice, forget about it. You are endangering yourself.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:38 PM

“White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the Obama administration will not be releasing any more information about the controversial use of drones to kill American citizens.”

Let that sink in for a while peeps…

… Really, just ponder what has happened here.

I’m sure the Founding Fathers had this in mind, they just forgot to write it down in the Constitution…

Seven Percent Solution on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

That should be grounds for impeachment, but the Marxist Democrats made their deal with the devil and there is no getting out of it.

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Then why are you defending the President’s right to summarily execute you when you aren’t on American soil?

The power is too broad.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

An F-18 bombing run can be ordered by the president and carried out by the military. The target can be an American and they don’t have to parachute out to read him his rights beforehand.

It has always been that way. Americans were forced to serve aboard British ships in the War of 1812 and US ships still fired on them.

It’s war, not law enforcement.

sharrukin on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

The power is too broad.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:35 PM

Good point, but , I put my full faith in our Marines to pull triggers on the right ones at the right time.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

How do I do that on here?

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

welllllll . . . you can BMore at a throw away address, and send him a pic . . . and he can post it temporarily . . .

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Handsome eh! ;-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:40 PM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:37 PM

Good Evening Dire. ; ) Heard any good speeches of late?

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:40 PM

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Ty Hon, as if I would!! I know better…. :-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:41 PM

How do I do that on here?

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:30 PM

For the record, Schadenfreude is correct. Best not to upload one of yourself to a public domain. Email is a better way to go, but only with those you trust the absolute and complete way.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Hiya Marsh. How you doing?

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Seven Percent Solution on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

Pondered all day… not like… not one bit.

No Sirreee!

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

I see what you did there;)

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Dire Straits on February 7, 2013 at 11:38 PM

Caught you in the Green Room…

John the Libertarian on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

welllllll . . . you can BMore at a throw away address, and send him a pic . . . and he can post it temporarily . . .

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

Stop it. Good friends don’t endanger.

Scrumpy, be wise.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Handsome eh! ;-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:40 PM

Not me, that is dead kin.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

Good point, but , I put my full faith in our Marines to pull triggers on the right ones at the right time.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

Think CIA, not marines. It’s a drone; it’s used to assassinate people.

An F-18 bombing run can be ordered by the president and carried out by the military. The target can be an American and they don’t have to parachute out to read him his rights beforehand.

It has always been that way. Americans were forced to serve aboard British ships in the War of 1812 and US ships still fired on them.

It’s war, not law enforcement.

sharrukin on February 7, 2013 at 11:39 PM

The president holds the power to decide if he is at war, if you are an enemy combatant, and if he wants to kill you, with no due process whatever. I can’t get comfortable with that. This isn’t a matter of you being in the wrong tent, or you being part of a foreign military — all that is already handled.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

Surviving:) Watching the surf crash on the coral, nice blue-green, and foam, cold and blustery here.

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:44 PM

I see what you did there;)

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

; )

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:44 PM

Stop it. Good friends don’t endanger.

Scrumpy, be wise.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:42 PM

*sigh* I was bested by curiosity. Stay underground Scrump.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Handsome eh! ;-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:40 PM

Not me, that is dead kin.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

Pancho Villa is your kin????

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

The president holds the power to decide if he is at war, if you are an enemy combatant, and if he wants to kill you, with no due process whatever. I can’t get comfortable with that. This isn’t a matter of you being in the wrong tent, or you being part of a foreign military — all that is already handled.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

Not too thrilled with it myself, but the real problem is that Washington DC is in the hands of a hostile power, not that the instruments of government are flawed.

sharrukin on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

Precicesly – Nappi can declare any of us, any veteran, any tea party person, any former cop, anyone “the enemy”.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

As much as we chit chat about happenings, what is going on around us, without us, is pretty damn scary to me…

We don’t have a leg to stand on…

It sickens me to think that this is now and will be the new normal?

Sometimes I wish I truly was none the wiser…

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Think CIA, not marines. It’s a drone; it’s used to assassinate people.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

Deader than heII either way.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

That vine on the arbor reminded me of a grape vine over an arbor in a particular courtyard in Charleston SC. In August it smelled like a winery under there, with the scent of those huge purple/blue clusters and the fallen grapes on the red brick cobbles.

thatsafactjack on February 7, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Glad you regained your usual wisdom.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Pancho Villa is your kin????

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

100% German

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:47 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:43 PM

As if… lol ;-)

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Exactly who that looks like!! Lmao…

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:47 PM

“White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the Obama administration will not be releasing any more information about the controversial use of drones to kill American citizens.”

Let that sink in for a while peeps……

Seven Percent Solution on February 7, 2013 at 11:36 PM

…ok I won’t say anything about the KGB, Gestapo, or Assad,Mao, Amin, or Hussein, etc…. killing their own people!
God Bless America!

KOOLAID2 on February 7, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:41 PM

Indeed…just keeping the sane vibes around you.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Not too thrilled with it myself, but the real problem is that Washington DC is in the hands of a hostile power, not that the instruments of government are flawed.

sharrukin on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

No argument about having the wrong guy with all the magic buttons.

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Axe on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

Will do, it is best to just imagine… :-) as I do about all you guys!!

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Not really too fond of that guy(Lincoln) but there is a family history there anyway.

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:25 PM

Yeah, the expulsion of Congressman Clement Vallandigham (D-OH) was a pretty low point in his presidency, too. Sure, Vallandigham was a copperhead, but he was not a traitor. Lincoln claimed that he violated General Order Number 38, which criminalised speech by making it a crime to habitually “declar[e] sympathies for the enemy.”

While I am not defending Vallandigham, he was not pro-slavery nor was he a supporter of the Confederacy. He made a speech in which he argued that the two sides could reach a peaceful solution with France acting as the negotiator. I abhor his somewhat sentimentality about the honour, valour, and charm of the Southern slaveowners and his racism, but what he spoke about was not sedition. He argued for an armistice, a peaceful resolution and demobilisation of both sides.

He argued that the war was “a wicked, cruel, and unnecessary war” that would result in “defeat, debt, taxation, sepulchers, these are your trophies” and that the goal of the Federal government should be “To maintain the Constitution as it is, and to restore the Union as it was.”

He also believed that financiers on Wall Street were pushing Lincoln and warned: “And let not Wall street, or any other great interest, mercantile, manufacturing, or commercial, imagine that it shall have power enough or wealth enough to stand in the way of reunion through peace.”

He was sort of like the Ron Paul of his time. Just as I do not agree with everything Ron Paul had to say as a Congressman, I never would have thought of expelling him from the country. Same with Progs. As long as the speaker is not inciting violence or sedition, then I think that his speech must be protected under the First Amendment, especially since the Founding Fathers believed that political speech was the most important and the most in need of constitutional protections.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Slow down you guys. How am I supposed to trick you when you are going so fast? Cripes.

SparkPlug on February 7, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Good Evening Jackie! Welcome to the fray :-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:49 PM

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:45 PM

His Grand daughter. Another cute German.

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:50 PM

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:48 PM

Thank you, sane I am (I hope) lol…

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:50 PM

He was sort of like the Ron Paul of his time. Just as I do not agree with everything Ron Paul had to say as a Congressman, I never would have thought of expelling him from the country. Same with Progs. As long as the speaker is not inciting violence or sedition, then I think that his speech must be protected under the First Amendment, especially since the Founding Fathers believed that political speech was the most important and the most in need of constitutional protections.

Resist We Much on February 7, 2013 at 11:49 PM

If only leftards would return this favor.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Jeebus……the rabbit hole is really deep. Assassination is now accepted policy of this evil gubRmint. Ahhh how I morn da good ole daze when we was just torture’n.

roflmmfao

donabernathy on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

thatsafactjack on February 7, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Evening Jackie! Love the courtyards of Charleston. Great town!

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:46 PM

While it would seem true that ignorance is best at times like these, trust me, your better off because forewarned is forearmed, and survival is really a state of mind:) Plus, such is the price of true freedom. It will get better Scrumpy trust me, the three percent will when the time comes do what needs done.

MarshFox on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Jackie, wonderful to see you!

KCB on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Rubio is an AINO.

VorDaj on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

@RWM Bingo

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:52 PM

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Good evening, delightful Spritely One! It’s wonderful to see you this evening. :)

thatsafactjack on February 7, 2013 at 11:53 PM

( ) ( )
(* .*)
(”__”)

This is Scrumpy.

SparkPlug on February 7, 2013 at 11:53 PM

OK, well I’m going to go lay down for awhile, since this flu hasn’t finished having it’s way with me. Ya’ll be good to each other, And if I don’t return to sing the song,
maybe just as well.
I’ve seen the news and there’s
not much I can do…alone
.

SWalker on February 7, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Good Evening Jackie! Welcome to the fray :-)

Scrumpy on February 7, 2013 at 11:49 PM

Hey, where is the fray? Is that near the Glade?

SparkPlug on February 7, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Bmore on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

As do I, Bmore! I have a great many relatives there. I visit when I can, and always enjoy it.

thatsafactjack on February 7, 2013 at 11:55 PM

Values? What WH values?

Some reporter quick enough should have asked if those trying to find out about illegal WH and Just-Us activities (such as F&F) would become primary drone targets?

viking01 on February 7, 2013 at 11:55 PM

Nite, SW. Get well soon.

tommy71 on February 7, 2013 at 11:56 PM

Get well soon SWalker.

Schadenfreude on February 7, 2013 at 11:56 PM

KCB on February 7, 2013 at 11:51 PM

Good evening, Ken! It’s a pleasure to see you, too. :)

thatsafactjack on February 7, 2013 at 11:56 PM

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