Hey Bishops, did you ever notice Jesus never suggested using Ceasar to enforce “charitable” acts? Speak out against the evil of using government force to enforce “charitable” acts and I’ll believe you learned your lesson.

I wish I could say that over the past year Catholic pulpits have been reverberating with messages of life and religious liberty. I think most Catholics would have to agree that’s just not been the case.

I don’t agree. This has not been my experience, and I attend Masses in *Chicago* for crying out loud.

That is more than enough reason to tell Mr.Pointy Hat “later, ‘gater”.

I tend to like the guy in the pointy hat.

But I have to admit, if he has much inclination to impact American culture (I don’t know why he wouldn’t) in support of life and religious liberty, he’s really been a non-factor.

There are ways to persuade – TV, radio, print media, etc., – to reach the culture at large. (Independent Catholic groups sending e-mail videos to their mailing lists of the already converted don’t count as impacting the overall culture.)

But they don’t seem to see the preference for socialism amongst our own bishops, priests and Catholic media. They don’t seem to want to acknowledge the decades of agitating for bigger, more intrusive government, or the equivocation in the area of political tyranny vs. religious and economic freedom.

Many (most?) of our Catholic leaders consistently provide moral cover for pro-abortion socialists. They want the socialized medicine and they don’t really mind too much whatever comes along with it.

I wish I could say that over the past year Catholic pulpits have been reverberating with messages of life and religious liberty. I think most Catholics would have to agree that’s just not been the case.

I’d like to hear, just once, the other side of the ‘helping the poor’ coin… I’d like to hear one of our leaders question the morality of raising our neighbors’ taxes. There’s plenty there to consider, but it’s just not in our leadership to present anything which tends to discredit socialist philosophy.

Why not make a case for the validity of scripture? Our church has never really made a case to the culture at large refuting the bogus claims of the DaVinci Code, which has been an excuse for so many to turn away. We seem indifferent to both the Gospel and liberty.

Certainly reason enough to reevaluate.

One doesn’t leave what he should believe is the true faith (not merely another “denomination”), because of other’s failures to live up to it, unless one is also willing to jump out of an perfectly fine airplane because the stewardess is inebriated.

Don L on February 6, 2013 at 10:34 AM

Leaving the Catholic Church is not leaving the Christian faith, no matter how much you’ve been brainwashed to the contrary.

The entire institution has been exposed as flawed in the worst possible ways – from buggering altar boys to supporting Marxism. That is more than enough reason to tell Mr.Pointy Hat “later, ‘gater”.

Perhaps. But I’m far more concerned with the constitutional right to freedom in religion than I am about who deserves what for doing whatever.

To many of us “worship” takes place everywhere. Plus the US Constitution doesn’t offer me just the freedom of worship. It clearly states

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The free exercise of my religion means everywhere everyday in every way. NOT just when I’m in a building where others of like faith gather on specific days at specific times.

I’m sorry. Did you become a Catholic because of the Bishops? If not, why would you renounce your faith because of them?

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Almost no one, so far as I know, becomes a Catholic because of the bishops. I became Catholic because of my practicing wife and because I found it to be an acceptable christian format.

I am one who is considering leaving this denomination because I find that my bishops, priests and the Catholic media (diocesan newspaper, Catholic magazines, Catholic websites) seem to put socialist ideals ahead of pro-life issues, religious liberty and (most importantly) the Gospel.

Yes, the bishops, through attrition, are slowly, slowly going less socialist. The question is becoming, will the bishops go full-on for life and the Gospel or will our nation first go full-on socialist?

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Gosh, Shinty, If Christ had your flawed thinking, He would have stopped creating His Church onn earth the minute His hand-picked disciple, Judas, betrayed Him.
The faith, the sacraments,the dogma are holy and inpenitrable by evil-the practioners, with or without Roman collars or red hats, are indeed quite fallible, as we see daily. One doesn’t leave what he should believe is the true faith (not merely another “denomination”), because of other’s failures to live up to it, unless one is also willing to jump out of an perfectly fine airplane because the stewardess is inebriated.

I’ll credit that they didn’t support Obamacare specifically, but they certainly greased the skids by calling for universal health care. Foolish in the extreme.

tom on February 5, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Gosh, weren’t they instrumental in getting Stupak to get it out of committee (with an Obama promise, of all things) The one Bishop who penned the letter to the flocks, that it had failed (after it hit the floor and was no longer stoppable) was titled the “Immigration Bishop” why? Could that have been the motive for going socialist medicine against the very Catholic moral Principle of Subsidiarity. (even thought the Catholic Catechism says that immigration is the laity’s call)

The debate is just over how it should be funded? Are you serious?

That’s revisionist history if I ever heard of it. You’re telling me that if program was implemented at the state level, conservatives won’t have a problem it? How would implementing it at a state level change the facts of this objection to it?

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:22 PM

I never said that conservatives believe it should be government funded, whether it be at the federal, state, or local level. In fact, the conservative plan doesn’t involve state action at all. If you subscribe to the belief that a pro-business agenda is beneficial to all persons (i.e., the rising tide theory), then the added wealth across the board would enable everyone to purchase their own health insurance and care.

I’ll reiterate again. Unless you’re some sort of sociopath, no one wants to see another person get sick. The issues here are cost, source of funding, and allocation of scarce resources. The liberal plan creates moral hazards by disincentivizing healthy life choices for the sake of fairness, using government as the mechanism for redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the unhealthy. The conservative plan encourages self sufficiency in order to ration those resources as effeciently as possible.

By way of example, I once was asked by a liberal if I would feel guilty if one of my best friends, a smoker, eventually contracted lung cancer and became burdened by extraordinary medical bills. I calmly told her that my best friend is an autonomous individual who can decide for herself whether to smoke or not based on her knowledge of the risks and benefits associated with her behavior. It would be absurd in such an event to then make me obliged to subsidize efforts to remediate the consequences of her willful and fully informed behavior when I did the fiscally responsible thing by refusing to smoke. The liberal was left speechless as she had never before considered the secondary effects of social welfare programs.

The USCCB whole-heartedly supported Obamacare until they got broadsided by the contraception mandate.

Actually, that’s wrong. While the USCCB has called for universal health care for almost 100 years, they opposed ObamaCare before its passage in March 2010.

Ed Morrissey on February 5, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Noted, but that’s only marginally better. “Universal health care” can only happen by government action. So USCCB was effectively calling for socialized medicine no matter how they may say, “We didn’t mean it like that!”

I’ll credit that they didn’t support Obamacare specifically, but they certainly greased the skids by calling for universal health care. Foolish in the extreme.

Catholic bishop blasts new version of HHS mandate

…so what?

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013

…his name ain’t chump !…for nothin’

Having doubts…is very Catholic

Keep the faith & checkout some great conservative Catholic Blogs.

Conservative Catholics,Reverts and Converts are breathing new life in the RCC under this remarkable Pope.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/02/nsr-making-church-history-up-as-they-go/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wdtprs%2FDhFa+%28Fr.+Z%27s+Blog+-+What+Does+The+Prayer+Really+Say%3F%29

http://catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=41988

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Okay, but I would gently suggest that you consider that putting God first would include honoring the Church that He Himself established.

You shouldn’t leave a True Church because of the failings of men.

Can I suggest you start watching more EWTN and maybe listen to Relevant Radio? The goofiness is minimal.

Also, find yourself a parish that does the Latin Mass and start attending. Good chance the priests there won’t be goofy either.

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:32 PM

I don’t deny that there are pockets of sanity in the Catholic church. Overall, however, I personally find the organization disinterested, frankly, in the Gospel, life, and religious liberty. I do wonder if overall this organization is worth my family’s attendance, time and treasure.

To me, seeking out a ‘good’ parish is kind of like supporting a ‘pro-life’ democrat. (Maybe not a perfect analogy.) The local guy is good but overall my support is likely damaging to the nation. Seems a possibility, at least.

I’m not one of those who thinks that one denomination is ‘true’ at the expense of all the others. My Catholic friends have a problem with this. For me, the important thing is that God is put first above all else. I know my perspective strikes some as peculiar.

[Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:06 PM]

Agreed. The problem is “See you in Court!” attitude since it already concedes that these rights are negotiable. A right shouldn’t doesn’t need to be exercised for you to retain it and forcing one to constantly defend the right in itself degrades it and renders the state that creates or allows that atmosphere to exist in society illegitimate.

National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws

to

National Abortion Rights Action League
Put in the word rights to make it sound like it is one.

to

National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League
Adding reproductive rights sounds a whole lot better than abortion by itself.

to

NARAL Pro-Choice America

Pro-choice–even better. Don’t use the word abortion at all, and maybe people will forget what NARAL stands for.

Notice their website is: prochoiceamerica.org

Hey, whatever works and obfuscates their intentions.

Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union and NARAL Prochoice America have praised it.

Ha ha ha. That tells you all you need to know.

The trouble is, the new rules are very complex. And they may actually make things worse.

Considering that we’re talking about Obama and Sibelius, I expect this to be the case.

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

You shouldn’t leave a True Church because of the failings of men.

Can I suggest you start watching more EWTN and maybe listen to Relevant Radio? The goofiness is minimal.

Also, find yourself a parish that does the Latin Mass and start attending. Good chance the priests there won’t be goofy either.

I’m sorry. Did you become a Catholic because of the Bishops? If not, why would you renounce your faith because of them?

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Almost no one, so far as I know, becomes a Catholic because of the bishops. I became Catholic because of my practicing wife and because I found it to be an acceptable christian format.

I am one who is considering leaving this denomination because I find that my bishops, priests and the Catholic media (diocesan newspaper, Catholic magazines, Catholic websites) seem to put socialist ideals ahead of pro-life issues, religious liberty and (most importantly) the Gospel.

Yes, the bishops, through attrition, are slowly, slowly going less socialist. The question is becoming, will the bishops go full-on for life and the Gospel or will our nation first go full-on socialist?

And of course, the purpose of all this mandating is to force the Church to turn over to the government its timeless charitable organizations, or to have them removed from competing with the great state led by the faux messiah.

Don L on February 5, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Yep!

The Church just needs to come out and say that the State is not an honest party in this discussion and push for the repeal of Obamacare on religious grounds. If not, they’ll be fighting this forever, which is the government’s objective.

They may very well do this. I hope they do. It dovetails very nicely with this comment:

“SEE YOU IN COURT!”

GarandFan on February 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

Then healthcare care overhaul can start anew with an eye to something less burdensome and fraught with abuse and oppression of individual rights.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 3:03 PM

That isn’t going to happen unless Obama, his merry band of Marxists, and his GOP elite enablers are neutralized by other leaders outside the beltway, and who somehow possess the incredible fortitude it will take to do so.

“SEE YOU IN COURT!” Would just about cover it.

GarandFan on February 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

I think the problem runs deeper than this, because no courtroom is going to be given final jurisdiction over whether the Catholic Church is going to participate in abortions.