Catholic bishop blasts new version of HHS mandate

posted at 2:51 pm on February 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The US Conference of Catholic Bishops responded on Friday to the new HHS contraception mandate language by pledging to review it.  One of their members has already found it unacceptable.  Archbishop Charles Chaput of Philadelphia writes that despite its offer of compromise, the new language actually makes the problem worse for Catholic organizations:

White House apologists and supporters have welcomed the proposal.  The New York Times called it “a good compromise.”  Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union and NARAL Prochoice America have praised it.  And at least one Washington Post  columnist implausibly called it a victory for America’s Catholic bishops.

The trouble is, the new rules are very complex.  And they may actually make things worse.  In the words of Notre Dame Law Professor Gerard Bradley:

“Gauging the net effect of the new administration proposal [is] hazardous.  But one can say with confidence the following: (1) religious hospitals are, as before, not exempt ‘religious employers’; (2) religious charities are very likely  not  exempt either, unless they are run out of a church  or are very tightly integrated with a church.  So, a parish or  even a diocese’s Saint Vincent De Paul operations would probably be an exempt ‘religious employer,’ whereas Catholic Charities would not be; (3) the new proposal may (or may not) make it more likely that parish grade schools are exempt ‘religious employers.’  But Catholic high schools are a different matter.  Some might qualify as ‘religious
employers.’  Most probably will not.

“It is certain that Catholic colleges and universities do not qualify as exempt ‘religious employers.’  The new proposal includes, however, a revised ‘accommodation’ for at least some of these institutions, as well as some hospitals and charities.  The proposal refines the administration’s earlier efforts to somehow insulate the colleges and universities from immoral complicity in contraception, mainly by shifting — at least nominally – the cost and administration of the immoral services to either the health insurance issuer (think Blue Cross) or to the plan administrator (for self-insured entities, such as Notre Dame).  This proposal adds some additional layering to the earlier attempts to insulate the schools, but nothing of decisive moral significance is included.”

Chaput also points out that the new language does nothing to address the protection of religious conscience for Christian business owners who want to live their faith in their work, either.  Some had suggested that the USCCB might be satisfied to gain protection for Catholic organizations, but Chaput signals that the bishops are concerned about the broader implications of religious liberty and the attempt by the Obama administration to redefine religious expression to just worship in churches, synagogues, and temples.

Chaput doesn’t speak for the USCCB as a whole, but he gives a hint as to where he sees the bishops heading with this latest “compromise”:

One of the issues America’s bishops now face is how best to respond to an HHS mandate that remains unnecessary, coercive and gravely flawed.  In the weeks ahead the bishops of our country, myself included, will need both prudence and courage – the kind of courage that gives prudence spine and results in right action, whatever the cost.  Please pray that God guides our discussions.

It doesn’t sound as if the USCCB will be retreating on this, or agreeing that this is a compromise at all.


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Dear Leader can do anything as long as he feeds the State run media…

d1carter on February 5, 2013 at 2:54 PM

The USCCB better step up.

They owe us after being so freakin’ lame for so many years.

Spade on February 5, 2013 at 2:57 PM

If CJ John Roberts is intimidated by this administration, who will step up..?

d1carter on February 5, 2013 at 2:59 PM

Bishops Seek Health Care That’s Universal

This nation needs universal health care, which the U.S. bishops have argued for, for decades.

Be careful what you wish for, cuz you just might get it.

sharrukin on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

The USCCB whole-heartedly supported Obamacare until they got broadsided by the contraception mandate. I say screw them; they should have to share in the pain they helped inflict on the rest of us. I hope Obama continues to give it to them hard and deep, altar boy-style.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

I wonder which drone will be tasked with ridding His Royal Highness of this “Meddlesome Priest”?

Lily on February 5, 2013 at 3:01 PM

The state-run media will report this insultingly stupid ploy as if it means something, and people will believe it.

RadClown on February 5, 2013 at 3:01 PM

Now guess which Catholic Bishop is #1 on OBOZO’s drone target kill list.

TeaPartyNation on February 5, 2013 at 3:02 PM

The USCCB whole-heartedly supported Obamacare until they got broadsided by the contraception mandate.

Actually, that’s wrong. While the USCCB has called for universal health care for almost 100 years, they opposed ObamaCare before its passage in March 2010.

Ed Morrissey on February 5, 2013 at 3:02 PM

The USCCB supports universal health care because they’re bad at public policy and political philosophy. They want everyone to be taken care of but don’t understand the terrible outcomes that will arise from government healthcare.

Their core competency is religion, theology, and morality, which is why they are strong on this issue.

Nessuno on February 5, 2013 at 3:03 PM

The Church just needs to come out and say that the State is not an honest party in this discussion and push for the repeal of Obamacare on religious grounds. If not, they’ll be fighting this forever, which is the government’s objective.

Then healthcare care overhaul can start anew with an eye to something less burdensome and fraught with abuse and oppression of individual rights.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 3:03 PM

I hope Obama continues to give it to them hard and deep, altar boy-style.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Um, in your rush to really make them pay for your perception of their sins (and I grant that a lot of my fellow Catholics vote for liberals despite their stance on abortion)…the rest of us are forced to watch as our Freedom of Religion protections are flushed down the toilet as people like you cheer. But at least you’ll feel good.

search4truth on February 5, 2013 at 3:08 PM

The USCCB whole-heartedly supported Obamacare until they got broadsided by the contraception mandate. I say screw them; they should have to share in the pain they helped inflict on the rest of us. I hope Obama continues to give it to them hard and deep, altar boy-style.
Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Can’t go one thread without catholic bashing. Btw, if you will not forgive others for their sins, how do expect your Father to forgive yours? (Silly question, of course, you wouldn’t know what forgiveness looks like).

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Bishops Seek Health Care That’s Universal

This nation needs universal health care, which the U.S. bishops have argued for, for decades.

Be careful what you wish for, cuz you just might get it.

sharrukin on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

You’re confusing universal access to health care with single payer. Chaput has been consistent with his view that caring for the poor doesn’t necessarily require government action. Instead, it is a prudential judgment as to how those ends should be achieved. Chaput even said that Paul Ryan’s budget was not amoral because it is possible to achieve the same ends through different means. I don’t think anyone, including conservatives, would be opposed to universal access to health care. It’s just a debate over how it should be funded.

blammm on February 5, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Actually, that’s wrong. While the USCCB has called for universal health care for almost 100 years, they opposed ObamaCare before its passage in March 2010.

Ed Morrissey on February 5, 2013 at 3:02 PM

So basically they were for it until 5 minutes before they finally realized exactly what universal health care MEANT.

Not a whole lotta sympathy there.

MelonCollie on February 5, 2013 at 3:12 PM

The Catholic Bishop’s? LOL

Thanks for supporting amnesty and gun grabs Padres.

Signed,
Former Roman Catholic

Mr. Arrogant on February 5, 2013 at 3:13 PM

blammm on February 5, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Exactly.

Ed Morrissey on February 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM

BTW, did the Vatican endorse gay civil unions yesterday?

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Vatican-head-opens-to-gay-civil-union-20130205

ZachV on February 5, 2013 at 3:16 PM

Can’t go one thread without catholic bashing. Btw, if you will not forgive others for their sins, how do expect your Father to forgive yours? (Silly question, of course, you wouldn’t know what forgiveness looks like).

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Engage him at your own risk – he seems like a nasty atheist, or at least a nasty antireligionist.

22044 on February 5, 2013 at 3:17 PM

the rest of us are forced to watch as our Freedom of Religion protections are flushed down the toilet

search4truth on February 5, 2013 at 3:08 PM

That is partially the result of the USCCB supporting universal health care.

“If you take the king’s silver, you do the king’s bidding.”

You don’t get universal health care without universal government dictates as to the conditions applied to that health care. Even if the USCCB gets what they want this year, there is still next year, and the next administration after that. Sooner or later, the government will start issuing dictates that will conflict with religious freedom, and it won’t be the government that gives way.

If the USCCB have reconsidered their support of universal health care that would be one thing. As far as I know they haven’t. That means they want to make Obamacare nicer, not that they want it to go away.

sharrukin on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

the rest of us are forced to watch as our Freedom of Religion protections are flushed down the toilet as people like you cheer. But at least you’ll feel good.

search4truth on February 5, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Nonsense. No one’s freedom of religion is being taken away.

Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Ed, while the USCCB opposed Obamacare, they should’ve known where pushing secular universal health care would’ve ended up.

Also, considering there are Catholic hospitals they should’ve said, “This is a job for us to do, not the government.”

Spade on February 5, 2013 at 3:21 PM

Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.

Somebody doesn’t understand the issue at hand.

Spade on February 5, 2013 at 3:22 PM

Wait.. haven’t they been listening to Rush?
We’re supposed to be defeated and demoralized.

When you’re demoralized you not suppose to stand up and fight back. You’re suppose to lay down and take it. Obama always wins. That what he says. Even the RINO’s who cave to him say they cave because Obama always wins.

Well, thank God that someone somewhere is standing up! I don’t care if it’s the Catholic church or the Frills Corner barber shop quartet! Somebody is!

JellyToast on February 5, 2013 at 3:23 PM

Nonsense. No one’s freedom of religion is being taken away.
Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.
chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Hobby Lobby takes federal money?
Catholic hospitals should reject Medicare patients?

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Can’t go one thread without catholic bashing. Btw, if you will not forgive others for their sins, how do expect your Father to forgive yours? (Silly question, of course, you wouldn’t know what forgiveness looks like).

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:10 PM

I’m getting pretty sick of this victim complex that’s been cropping up among the “faithful” on conservative blogs lately. Pointing out the indisputable reality that your church has been in the vanguard of big government progressivism (especially on the matter of “universal healthcare”) for well over a century is not “Catholic bashing”. The Catholic Church LOVES itself some socialism. That’s a fact, Jack.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Nonsense. No one’s freedom of religion is being taken away.

Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

You missed the /sarc tag.

Myron Falwell on February 5, 2013 at 3:31 PM

I’m getting pretty sick of this victim complex that’s been cropping up among the “faithful” on conservative blogs lately. Pointing out the indisputable reality that your church has been in the vanguard of big government progressivism (especially on the matter of “universal healthcare”) for well over a century is not “Catholic bashing”. The Catholic Church LOVES itself some socialism. That’s a fact, Jack.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:30 PM

First off, I’m not Catholic. I do believe that they, like all humans make mistakes. I believe they deserve a chance at being forgiven. That you don’t speaks volumes about the exclusivity of your ideological bend.

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:34 PM

I’m getting pretty sick of this victim complex that’s been cropping up among the “faithful” on conservative blogs lately. Pointing out the indisputable reality that your church has been in the vanguard of big government progressivism (especially on the matter of “universal healthcare”) for well over a century is not “Catholic bashing”. The Catholic Church LOVES itself some socialism. That’s a fact, Jack.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:30 PM

There is a real difference between a ‘victim complex’ and destroying your insipid anti-Catholic arguments.

Myron Falwell on February 5, 2013 at 3:35 PM

Nonsense. No one’s freedom of religion is being taken away.

Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

Your one of those “Church only in the four walls” kind of liberal right?

I hear England thinks like you, you should move there.

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:35 PM

The Catholic Church LOVES itself some socialism. That’s a fact, Jack.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:30 PM

John Paul II would like to have a word with you.

blammm on February 5, 2013 at 3:36 PM

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:34 PM

Tamzarian Devil is one of the resident militant athiests who would like nothing better than to see the church – the Catholic Church in particular – hobbled to the state’s will. What he’s too dense to realize is that any government that can make THEM bend to their whims can and will make HIM bow.

MelonCollie on February 5, 2013 at 3:36 PM

The USCCB whole-heartedly supported Obamacare until they got broadsided by the contraception mandate.

Actually, that’s wrong. While the USCCB has called for universal health care for almost 100 years, they opposed ObamaCare before its passage in March 2010.

[Ed Morrissey on February 5, 2013 at 3:02 PM]

Why did they oppose it, Ed? On what grounds?

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 3:36 PM

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:34 PM

THIS.

Myron Falwell on February 5, 2013 at 3:36 PM

If CJ John Roberts is intimidated by this administration, who will step up..?

d1carter on February 5, 2013 at 2:59 PM

I will. Obummer can kiss my hairy as…hey, is that a drone overhead?

Nutstuyu on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

The USCCB and the Catholic Church in general has always promoted the universal right to access healthcare. It is why they have been behind both the creation of, first the idea of hospital networks that included the poor, and who has also become one of the biggest providers of healthcare on the planet.

As far as they are concerned, if the government wants to help out something they have been doing on their own for hundreds/thousands of years, fine. However, THIS particular government is not about helping out. It is all about taking it over and telling the Church and everyone of conscience what they can and must provide for healthcare.

So yes, they may seem a little naive not to have expected the government to turn on them. But they are churchmen not politicians.

Personally, I blame Catholic politicians who KNEW which way this was going and promoted it or pretended that it was benign.

Lily on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Hobby Lobby takes federal money?

Didn’t know Hobby Lobby was a Catholic organization.

Catholic hospitals should reject Medicare patients?

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:24 PM

At the end of the day, they will have to make that decision. But their religions freedoms are not being taken away from them. In fact, they are trying to force their beliefs on non-Catholic employees.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

What is Benghazi Clinton doing today?

SparkPlug on February 5, 2013 at 3:38 PM

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

wrongo, db. get a clue

tommer74 on February 5, 2013 at 3:38 PM

I hope Obama continues to give it to them hard and deep, altar boy-style.

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

(Silly question, of course, you wouldn’t know what forgiveness looks like).

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Apparently, to Armin, forgiveness looks like said altar boy wearing tighter pants the next week.

Nutstuyu on February 5, 2013 at 3:42 PM

BTW, did the Vatican endorse gay civil unions yesterday?

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Vatican-head-opens-to-gay-civil-union-20130205

ZachV on February 5, 2013 at 3:16 PM

Can’t confirm the quote you posted and it looks like the Vatican Newsite has been hacked…

What matter is what The Pope Says.

So I’ll post this with link Dated Dec. 22, 2012:

” Pope Benedict XVI used his annual Christmas message to denounce gay marriage, saying that it destroyed the “essence of the human creature.”

In one of his most important speeches of the year, the Pope stressed that a person’s gender identity is God-given and unchangeable. As a result, he sees gay marriage as a “manipulation of nature.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-denounces-gay-marriage-annual-xmas-message-article-1.1225960#ixzz2K3jrG5ow

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM

Your one of those “Church only in the four walls” kind of liberal right?

No, I’m a “you’re entitled to your beliefs, but don’t try to force them on me” kind of person

I hear England thinks like you, you should move there.

nobar on February 5, 2013 at 3:35 PM

I think you should cover my moving costs, expenses and a stipend while I secure employment.

Deal?

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM

At the end of the day, they will have to make that decision. But their religions freedoms are not being taken away from them. In fact, they are trying to force their beliefs on non-Catholic employees.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

If this situation forces them to not treat Medicare patients, then they are not able to practice their religion’s requirement of caring for the sick and poor.

Nutstuyu on February 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Heh. Well, I’m not in love with swinging a banhammer, but I’m getting pretty tired of the trolling that goes on while the vast majority of commenters want to stay on topic and have fruitful discussions of faith. I’m going to be a lot less patient with that kind of trolling going forward.

Ed Morrissey on January 27, 2013 at 5:53 PM

Just a friendly reminder…
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/01/27/next-generation-of-catholic-clergy-more-conservative/comment-page-1/#comment-141534

cptacek on February 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Hobby Lobby takes federal money?

Didn’t know Hobby Lobby was a Catholic organization.

Catholic hospitals should reject Medicare patients?

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:24 PM

At the end of the day, they will have to make that decision. But their religions freedoms are not being taken away from them. In fact, they are trying to force their beliefs on non-Catholic employees.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

You said no ones religious freedom was being taken away. HHS is stripping Hobby Lobby of it’s religious freedom and they don’t take federal money in any way.

The Catholic church is forcing it’s beliefs on non-Catholic employees? So now employees have a “right” to demand their employers spend their money and write policies to their whims? The employee is free to spend the wages of their labor (their property) on whatever they see fit without interference (which the Catholic Church doesn’t have a problem with). Employees (or the federal government on their “behalf”) are not free to dictate to their employers what the employer will do with their property. Or maybe you’d be fine if a future HHS secretary determined that in order to accept Medicare patients you had to pay for your employee’s AR-15 and a handgun of their choice and 1000 rounds of ammo per month. After all if the Catholic Church refused they’d be denying their employees their 2nd amendment rights.

The Catholic Church has every right to create institutions which operate according to their religious principles. If you want to work for them then you do so on their terms.

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM

I think you should cover my moving costs, expenses and a stipend while I secure employment.

Deal?

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM

He is probably already doing all that right now anyway.

sharrukin on February 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM

the rest of us are forced to watch as our Freedom of Religion protections are flushed down the toilet as people like you cheer. But at least you’ll feel good.

search4truth on February 5, 2013 at 3:08 PM

Nonsense. No one’s freedom of religion is being taken away.

Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

So the Gubmint can also decide curriculum for religious schools…cause y’know Religion is only on Saturdays at Temple or Sundays within the 4 walls of a church.

Can’t have those preachers or teachers preachin’ or teachin’ their politically incorrect dogma now can we?

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM

In fact, they are trying to force their beliefs on non-Catholic employees.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

For the 16 trillionth time, no one is forced to work for a Catholic employer. If they don’t like it, they can quit.

Nutstuyu on February 5, 2013 at 3:49 PM

I think you should cover my moving costs, expenses and a stipend while I secure employment.

Deal?

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM

Using your own logic against you if I refuse to do so them I’m denying your your rights.

No, I’m a “you’re entitled to your beliefs, but don’t try to force them on me” kind of person

I wasn’t aware the employment with a Catholic institution was mandatory. How exactly is the Catholic Church forcing it’s beliefs on someone?

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:51 PM

The real issue with the USCCB (a non-hierarchal entity with a history of chastizements from Rome)goes back even further when they were funneling millions to ACORN and helped to elect the most aggressive poster child for abortion and infanticide in history. Having been charged by Christ to be as cunning as serpents, one has to wonder why they pursued Obamacare, knowing the man’s beliefs were opposite Gods on this, and as importantly, ignoring and remaining almost completely silent about both, the Catholic moral Principle of Susidiarity, and John Paul’s Encyclical admonishing the evil “welfare state,” one has to wonder what is wrong with the Church’s shepherds.

Don L on February 5, 2013 at 3:52 PM

In fact, they are trying to force their beliefs on non-Catholic employees.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

This is fantastic news. I’m going to register as a Democrat and demand that they stop funding Planned Parenthood and drop all their pro-abortion policies. Otherwise they’r forcing their religious and political beliefs on me.

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:53 PM

The Catholic Church has every right to create institutions which operate according to their religious principles. If you want to work for them then you do so on their terms.

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:48 PM

Exactly, which is also why the government should be kept out of those same institutions. If they are the ones paying the bills, then you will do so on their terms.

sharrukin on February 5, 2013 at 3:53 PM

John Paul II would like to have a word with you.

[blammm on February 5, 2013 at 3:36 PM]

Of course the “Church” regards Socialism as an anathema. The problem is that the Bishops are the Church in their respective Dioceses and the USCCB is the Church in the USA. On that basis, the Church does, indeed, “loves itself some socialism.”

Maybe, the Bishops have been led astray, like sheep drawn to leave the flock, by the sight of the greener pastures of social justice initiatives which Socialists are constantly constructing to entice them, but the fact is the USCCB, in their effort to achieve their charitable objectives by harnessing the coercive power of the state to accomplish it, have created a socialism with dependency of individuals and a usurpation of free will that rivals that of communist regimes, wherein the only thing missing in the mix is total control of the means of production. But the progressives will work on that later.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM

one has to wonder what is wrong with the Church’s shepherds.

Don L on February 5, 2013 at 3:52 PM

*raises hand, jumps up and down*

I know! I know! They are only human.

Lily on February 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM

Hear that, folks? According to chump and his ilk, if you refuse to pay for someone’s access to something, you are denying their right to it.

By that logic, he should immediately be brought up on civil rights charges for not bankrolling my supply of Hershey bars, Glenlivet, and pork roll.

CurtZHP on February 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM

I wasn’t aware the employment with a Catholic institution was mandatory. How exactly is the Catholic Church forcing it’s beliefs on someone?

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 3:51 PM

Yeah.

Catholic Institutions hire non-catholics (Catholic Teaching is always taught by Catholics in Parochial Schools though) & Catholic Charity Hospitals treat non-catholic poor.

1 in 6 Hospital Beds in this country are Catholic Charity Hospitals and the Bishops will shut them down rather than comply with HHS contraceptive Mandate.

They will do it within 2 years.

The church has seen many Neros in her long history.

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 3:56 PM

Nonsense. No one’s freedom of religion is being taken away.

Catholic organizations are perfectly free to not accept government money.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:19 PM

What are you talking about? Catholic organizations are going to be forced to comply with these mandates no matter what. Doesn’t have anything to do with whether they take government funding.

Missy on February 5, 2013 at 3:59 PM

p.s. All organziations private and public must comply with the mandates, unless they are specifically exempt. All individual citizens must comply with the mandate to have health insurance, unless they are exempt.

That’s why they’re called MANDATES.

Missy on February 5, 2013 at 4:02 PM

In fact, they are trying to force their beliefs on non-Catholic employees.

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013 at 3:37 PM

It’s also ironic that you should say this. Sandra Fluke specifically chose to go to Georgetown Law (a Catholic institution) because she wanted to agitate against their abortion pill and contraception policies. She wasn’t a victim – she’s an activist.

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 4:03 PM

Obama: “God didn’t build that!”

Deano1952 on February 5, 2013 at 4:04 PM

p.s. All organziations private and public must comply with the mandates, unless they are specifically exempt. All individual citizens must comply with the mandate to have health insurance, unless they are exempt.

That’s why they’re called MANDATES.

Missy on February 5, 2013 at 4:02 PM

+1

Worth repeating

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 4:04 PM

John Paul II would like to have a word with you.

[blammm on February 5, 2013 at 3:36 PM]

Of course the “Church” regards Socialism as an anathema. The problem is that the Bishops are the Church in their respective Dioceses and the USCCB is the Church in the USA. On that basis, the Church does, indeed, “loves itself some socialism.”

Maybe, the Bishops have been led astray, like sheep drawn to leave the flock, by the sight of the greener pastures of social justice initiatives which Socialists are constantly constructing to entice them, but the fact is the USCCB, in their effort to achieve their charitable objectives by harnessing the coercive power of the state to accomplish it, have created a socialism with dependency of individuals and a usurpation of free will that rivals that of communist regimes, wherein the only thing missing in the mix is total control of the means of production. But the progressives will work on that later.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Pope Benedict XVI (Head Bishop of Rome) has made it very clear to the American Faction of Bishops & He’s been ordaining conservatives throughout.

If Obaamcare unites the USCCB to wakeup and see their folly…Why is this a bad thing?

If Obamacare unites conservatives to fight against it…that’s good too.

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 4:05 PM

I know! I know! They are only human.

[Lily on February 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM]

That is an excuse and a very poor one, considering the intelligence and level of education the Bishops have and the resources available to them in making the wisest decisions possible on the subjects at hand in the light of Catholic doctrine. They know all the inherent dangers, along with the inevitable consequences even the average citizen recognizes, of following the path they’ve chosen on this, yet they continue to persist in forging ahead on that path.

They know the history which they are repeating. That’s not a mistake. It’s intentional.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 4:08 PM

[workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 4:05 PM]

Your insistence on the coming dawn of your utopia is admirable, but it needs a few more “if’s”.

I apologize for my sarcasm in advance. I’m particularly cynical on days ending in y.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 4:15 PM

I don’t think anyone, including conservatives, would be opposed to universal access to health care. It’s just a debate over how it should be funded.

blammm on February 5, 2013 at 3:11 PM

The debate is just over how it should be funded? Are you serious?

That’s revisionist history if I ever heard of it. You’re telling me that if program was implemented at the state level, conservatives won’t have a problem it? How would implementing it at a state level change the facts of this objection to it?

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:22 PM

What are you talking about? Catholic organizations are going to be forced to comply with these mandates no matter what. Doesn’t have anything to do with whether they take government funding.

Missy on February 5, 2013 at 3:59 PM

I think that’s the question though. What is a “Catholic Organization”. Is the Hobby Hut a “Catholic Organization”?

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:24 PM

hobby hut?

….so much ignorance amongst the proud…

tom daschle concerned on February 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM

hobby hut?

….so much ignorance amongst the proud…

tom daschle concerned on February 5, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Oh, you got me. Completely invalidates my entire point. You’re a cliche’. “Oh, he messed up in his post! Idiot! hahaha”.

Don’t worry folks. Someone’s on the job today. Spelling mistakes will be caught. Grammar, corrected. Mistakes pointed out. Put the kids to bed. All is safe and well.

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:33 PM

OT…kinda…But has anybody seen this?

” More than a dozen House lawmakers reintroduced legislation that would let immigrants in same-sex marriages sponsor their partners for legal residency.

Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) reintroduced the bill, the Uniting American Families Act, on Tuesday. The legislation is cosposored by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), Reps. Richard Hanna (R-N.Y.), Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.), Charlie Dent (R-Pa.), Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), John Conyers (D-Mich.), Jared Polis (D-Colo.), David Cicilline (D-R.I.), Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), Mark Pocan (D-Wis.), Mark Takano (D-Calif.), Sean Maloney (D-N.Y.), Mike Honda (D-Calif.), and Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.).

Currently, only immigrants in heterosexual marriages can sponsor their spouses for legal residency. The Uniting American Families Act (UAFA) would include “permanent partner” in the Immigration and Naturalization act in order to include immigrants in same-sex relationships. The same benefits and penalties applied to heterosexual marriages would apply to same sex marriages under the legislation.

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/02/05/house-democrats-introduce-immigration-bill-for-gay-couples/

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 4:34 PM

[workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 4:05 PM]

Your insistence on the coming dawn of your utopia is admirable, but it needs a few more “if’s”.

I apologize for my sarcasm in advance. I’m particularly cynical on days ending in y.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 4:15 PM

*shrug*

Maybe you’d feel better if you had a V-8…or got laid or something.

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 4:37 PM

The USCCB better step up.

They owe us after being so freakin’ lame for so many years.

Spade on February 5, 2013 at 2:57 PM

This Catholic says “Amen”.

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 4:38 PM

I know! I know! They are only human.

[Lily on February 5, 2013 at 3:55 PM]

That is an excuse and a very poor one….

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 4:08 PM

Many (most?) of our bishops are socialists/democrats first, with pro-life, religious liberty issues coming after the first allegiance.

My good Catholic friends are only now, after much conversation and commiseration, just beginning to realize this…

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 4:44 PM

I think that’s the question though. What is a “Catholic Organization”. Is the Hobby Hut a “Catholic Organization”?

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:24 PM

No but the owners of Hobby Lobby are Christians who want to run a company that doesn’t violate the tenets of their faith as they see it.

I’m glad you support my plan to register as a Democrat and demand (backed up by the force of the federal government) they drop all policy preferences and funding that violates my religious sensibilities.

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 4:46 PM

One of the issues America’s bishops now face is how best to respond to an HHS mandate that remains unnecessary, coercive and gravely flawed.

Yes, well, we all have this problem. Not all of us, though, were so incredibly naive as to believe the unicorn nirvana of universal healthcare would be cost-free, as is the Church. Here, we all knew from the start that there would be costs to be paid in lost liberty. The Church has just found out.

The Bishops anger is welcome, because its always good to have powerful friends, but we all know that it would only take a small adjustment by the administration in ObamaCare (eliminating mandatory abortion and family-planning coverage) to turn the Bishops overnight into rabid supporters of this plan and even more radical plans.

The Bishops support the underlying principle even if they do not like this particular aspect of the plan as drafted, and they don’t care about the tax regime necessary to support universal care and the control of citizens lives ceded to government bureaucrats.

MTF on February 5, 2013 at 4:46 PM

One of the issues America’s bishops now face is how best to respond to an HHS mandate that remains unnecessary, coercive and gravely flawed.

“SEE YOU IN COURT!” Would just about cover it.

GarandFan on February 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

Oh, you got me. Completely invalidates my entire point. You’re a cliche’. “Oh, he messed up in his post! Idiot! hahaha”.

Don’t worry folks. Someone’s on the job today. Spelling mistakes will be caught. Grammar, corrected. Mistakes pointed out. Put the kids to bed. All is safe and well.

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Well, apparently, your point was that Hobby Lobby isn’t a CATHOLIC organization so it should just shut up?

So only Catholics should care?

Hobby Lobby is owned by Christians who don’t happen to be Catholic but are concerned about their freedom NOT to pay for abortions and abortifacient drugs as a requirement for the MANDATED healthcare they are required by this law to provide.

And how about Catholics who are business owners. They don’t get government aid, but they will be MANDATED to provide this coverage because they aren’t a “religious organization”.

Lily on February 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

And of course, the purpose of all this mandating is to force the Church to turn over to the government its timeless charitable organizations, or to have them removed from competing with the great state led by the faux messiah.

Don L on February 5, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Oh, you got me. Completely invalidates my entire point. You’re a cliche’. “Oh, he messed up in his post! Idiot! hahaha”.

Don’t worry folks. Someone’s on the job today. Spelling mistakes will be caught. Grammar, corrected. Mistakes pointed out. Put the kids to bed. All is safe and well.

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:33 PM

I’m also glad you support by universal 2nd amendment access initiative. Once all employees are required to pay for NRA memberships and firearms and ammo as part of health coverage then we’ll see some real gains in crime reduction – especially in urban areas.

gwelf on February 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM

The Bishops support the underlying principle even if they do not like this particular aspect of the plan as drafted, and they don’t care about the tax regime necessary to support universal care and the control of citizens lives ceded to government bureaucrats.

MTF on February 5, 2013 at 4:46 PM

Dreadfully, sadly true.

Our bishops have no problem with top-down organizational structures. They’ve submitted to one themselves. And they have no problem with everyone else having to go along with this.

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 4:56 PM

Oh, you got me. Completely invalidates my entire point. You’re a cliche’. “Oh, he messed up in his post! Idiot! hahaha”.

Don’t worry folks. Someone’s on the job today. Spelling mistakes will be caught. Grammar, corrected. Mistakes pointed out. Put the kids to bed. All is safe and well.

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Actually, it is another stupid comment made by you of your own volition here at HA. Almost every thread you choose to participate in you express your ignorance of whatever the topic is. I know you are a leftist and have no shame so there is no sense in attempting to shame you.

Keep on keeping on, imbecile.

tom daschle concerned on February 5, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Signed,
Former Roman Catholic

Mr. Arrogant on February 5, 2013 at 3:13 PM

I’m sorry. Did you become a Catholic because of the Bishops? If not, why would you renounce your faith because of them?

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:04 PM

“SEE YOU IN COURT!” Would just about cover it.

GarandFan on February 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

I think the problem runs deeper than this, because no courtroom is going to be given final jurisdiction over whether the Catholic Church is going to participate in abortions.

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:06 PM

The Church just needs to come out and say that the State is not an honest party in this discussion and push for the repeal of Obamacare on religious grounds. If not, they’ll be fighting this forever, which is the government’s objective.

They may very well do this. I hope they do. It dovetails very nicely with this comment:

“SEE YOU IN COURT!”

GarandFan on February 5, 2013 at 4:48 PM

Then healthcare care overhaul can start anew with an eye to something less burdensome and fraught with abuse and oppression of individual rights.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 3:03 PM

That isn’t going to happen unless Obama, his merry band of Marxists, and his GOP elite enablers are neutralized by other leaders outside the beltway, and who somehow possess the incredible fortitude it will take to do so.

PatriotGal2257 on February 5, 2013 at 5:06 PM

And of course, the purpose of all this mandating is to force the Church to turn over to the government its timeless charitable organizations, or to have them removed from competing with the great state led by the faux messiah.

Don L on February 5, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Yep!

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 5:16 PM

I’m sorry. Did you become a Catholic because of the Bishops? If not, why would you renounce your faith because of them?

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Almost no one, so far as I know, becomes a Catholic because of the bishops. I became Catholic because of my practicing wife and because I found it to be an acceptable christian format.

I am one who is considering leaving this denomination because I find that my bishops, priests and the Catholic media (diocesan newspaper, Catholic magazines, Catholic websites) seem to put socialist ideals ahead of pro-life issues, religious liberty and (most importantly) the Gospel.

Yes, the bishops, through attrition, are slowly, slowly going less socialist. The question is becoming, will the bishops go full-on for life and the Gospel or will our nation first go full-on socialist?

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

You shouldn’t leave a True Church because of the failings of men.

Can I suggest you start watching more EWTN and maybe listen to Relevant Radio? The goofiness is minimal.

Also, find yourself a parish that does the Latin Mass and start attending. Good chance the priests there won’t be goofy either.

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:32 PM

Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union and NARAL Prochoice America have praised it.

Ha ha ha. That tells you all you need to know.

The trouble is, the new rules are very complex. And they may actually make things worse.

Considering that we’re talking about Obama and Sibelius, I expect this to be the case.

INC on February 5, 2013 at 5:37 PM

As a reminder, this is how NARAL has changed it’s name over the years.

National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws

to

National Abortion Rights Action League
Put in the word rights to make it sound like it is one.

to

National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League
Adding reproductive rights sounds a whole lot better than abortion by itself.

to

NARAL Pro-Choice America

Pro-choice–even better. Don’t use the word abortion at all, and maybe people will forget what NARAL stands for.

Notice their website is: prochoiceamerica.org

Hey, whatever works and obfuscates their intentions.

INC on February 5, 2013 at 5:43 PM

I think the problem runs deeper than this, because no courtroom is going to be given final jurisdiction over whether the Catholic Church is going to participate in abortions.

[Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:06 PM]

Agreed. The problem is “See you in Court!” attitude since it already concedes that these rights are negotiable. A right shouldn’t doesn’t need to be exercised for you to retain it and forcing one to constantly defend the right in itself degrades it and renders the state that creates or allows that atmosphere to exist in society illegitimate.

Dusty on February 5, 2013 at 5:43 PM

You shouldn’t leave a True Church because of the failings of men.

Can I suggest you start watching more EWTN and maybe listen to Relevant Radio? The goofiness is minimal.

Also, find yourself a parish that does the Latin Mass and start attending. Good chance the priests there won’t be goofy either.

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:32 PM

I don’t deny that there are pockets of sanity in the Catholic church. Overall, however, I personally find the organization disinterested, frankly, in the Gospel, life, and religious liberty. I do wonder if overall this organization is worth my family’s attendance, time and treasure.

To me, seeking out a ‘good’ parish is kind of like supporting a ‘pro-life’ democrat. (Maybe not a perfect analogy.) The local guy is good but overall my support is likely damaging to the nation. Seems a possibility, at least.

I’m not one of those who thinks that one denomination is ‘true’ at the expense of all the others. My Catholic friends have a problem with this. For me, the important thing is that God is put first above all else. I know my perspective strikes some as peculiar.

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:46 PM

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Okay, but I would gently suggest that you consider that putting God first would include honoring the Church that He Himself established.

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:56 PM

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Having doubts…is very Catholic

Keep the faith & checkout some great conservative Catholic Blogs.

Conservative Catholics,Reverts and Converts are breathing new life in the RCC under this remarkable Pope.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/02/nsr-making-church-history-up-as-they-go/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wdtprs%2FDhFa+%28Fr.+Z%27s+Blog+-+What+Does+The+Prayer+Really+Say%3F%29

http://catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=41988

workingclass artist on February 5, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Catholic bishop blasts new version of HHS mandate

…so what?

chumpThreads on February 5, 2013

…his name ain’t chump !…for nothin’

KOOLAID2 on February 5, 2013 at 9:28 PM

The USCCB whole-heartedly supported Obamacare until they got broadsided by the contraception mandate.

Actually, that’s wrong. While the USCCB has called for universal health care for almost 100 years, they opposed ObamaCare before its passage in March 2010.

Ed Morrissey on February 5, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Noted, but that’s only marginally better. “Universal health care” can only happen by government action. So USCCB was effectively calling for socialized medicine no matter how they may say, “We didn’t mean it like that!”

I’ll credit that they didn’t support Obamacare specifically, but they certainly greased the skids by calling for universal health care. Foolish in the extreme.

tom on February 5, 2013 at 9:45 PM

The debate is just over how it should be funded? Are you serious?

That’s revisionist history if I ever heard of it. You’re telling me that if program was implemented at the state level, conservatives won’t have a problem it? How would implementing it at a state level change the facts of this objection to it?

segasagez on February 5, 2013 at 4:22 PM

I never said that conservatives believe it should be government funded, whether it be at the federal, state, or local level. In fact, the conservative plan doesn’t involve state action at all. If you subscribe to the belief that a pro-business agenda is beneficial to all persons (i.e., the rising tide theory), then the added wealth across the board would enable everyone to purchase their own health insurance and care.

I’ll reiterate again. Unless you’re some sort of sociopath, no one wants to see another person get sick. The issues here are cost, source of funding, and allocation of scarce resources. The liberal plan creates moral hazards by disincentivizing healthy life choices for the sake of fairness, using government as the mechanism for redistribution of wealth from the healthy to the unhealthy. The conservative plan encourages self sufficiency in order to ration those resources as effeciently as possible.

By way of example, I once was asked by a liberal if I would feel guilty if one of my best friends, a smoker, eventually contracted lung cancer and became burdened by extraordinary medical bills. I calmly told her that my best friend is an autonomous individual who can decide for herself whether to smoke or not based on her knowledge of the risks and benefits associated with her behavior. It would be absurd in such an event to then make me obliged to subsidize efforts to remediate the consequences of her willful and fully informed behavior when I did the fiscally responsible thing by refusing to smoke. The liberal was left speechless as she had never before considered the secondary effects of social welfare programs.

blammm on February 6, 2013 at 12:03 AM

I’ll credit that they didn’t support Obamacare specifically, but they certainly greased the skids by calling for universal health care. Foolish in the extreme.

tom on February 5, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Gosh, weren’t they instrumental in getting Stupak to get it out of committee (with an Obama promise, of all things) The one Bishop who penned the letter to the flocks, that it had failed (after it hit the floor and was no longer stoppable) was titled the “Immigration Bishop” why? Could that have been the motive for going socialist medicine against the very Catholic moral Principle of Subsidiarity. (even thought the Catholic Catechism says that immigration is the laity’s call)

Don L on February 6, 2013 at 10:21 AM

I’m sorry. Did you become a Catholic because of the Bishops? If not, why would you renounce your faith because of them?

Kensington on February 5, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Almost no one, so far as I know, becomes a Catholic because of the bishops. I became Catholic because of my practicing wife and because I found it to be an acceptable christian format.

I am one who is considering leaving this denomination because I find that my bishops, priests and the Catholic media (diocesan newspaper, Catholic magazines, Catholic websites) seem to put socialist ideals ahead of pro-life issues, religious liberty and (most importantly) the Gospel.

Yes, the bishops, through attrition, are slowly, slowly going less socialist. The question is becoming, will the bishops go full-on for life and the Gospel or will our nation first go full-on socialist?

shinty on February 5, 2013 at 5:28 PM

Gosh, Shinty, If Christ had your flawed thinking, He would have stopped creating His Church onn earth the minute His hand-picked disciple, Judas, betrayed Him.
The faith, the sacraments,the dogma are holy and inpenitrable by evil-the practioners, with or without Roman collars or red hats, are indeed quite fallible, as we see daily. One doesn’t leave what he should believe is the true faith (not merely another “denomination”), because of other’s failures to live up to it, unless one is also willing to jump out of an perfectly fine airplane because the stewardess is inebriated.

Don L on February 6, 2013 at 10:34 AM

Armin Tamzarian on February 5, 2013 at 3:00 PM

Perhaps. But I’m far more concerned with the constitutional right to freedom in religion than I am about who deserves what for doing whatever.

To many of us “worship” takes place everywhere. Plus the US Constitution doesn’t offer me just the freedom of worship. It clearly states

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The free exercise of my religion means everywhere everyday in every way. NOT just when I’m in a building where others of like faith gather on specific days at specific times.

katablog.com on February 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM

The Catholics voted overwhelmingly for Obama. They knew what was coming and still voted for him. They are hypocrites and deserve everything they get.

megthered on February 6, 2013 at 11:19 AM

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