Pushback: Gingrich, Vitter, National Review, Malkin, Coulter, Erickson oppose Rubio’s immigration plan

posted at 3:51 pm on January 30, 2013 by Allahpundit

The key subplot to Rubio’s immigration push, of course, is how much of a headache it’ll be for him with conservatives in the 2016 primaries. The talk-radio charm offensive is mainly designed to get grassroots opinion-shapers like Rush to at least wait and see what the bill looks like before lobbying against it, but more broadly it’s designed to move the Overton window on what positions are acceptable for a good conservative to hold. Rubio can afford to have immigration reform fail; he can’t afford to be RINO-ized over it. Like I said yesterday, whether or not a bill ends up passing, he’s already achieved something significant by getting Rush et al. to acknowledge that “recognizing reality” in terms of a grand bargain on immigration is something “admirable and noteworthy.” No matter what happens now, unless he ends up voting for a watered-down Democratic bill with token enforcement (which he won’t), he’s got that as a soundbite for his primary ads in 2016. James Antle makes a good point too in noting that none of Rubio’s would-be rivals for the nomination have attacked him on this yet. Jindal, Paul, and Christie have all kept quiet and Ryan has actually endorsed Rubio’s plan. The likely candidates don’t want to alienate Latino voters and the pundits with big audiences don’t want to kneecap a guy who might end up being the party’s best chance to regain the presidency.

So how’s all of this playing with conservatives in the Senate and online? Is Rubiomania enough in itself to convince people to reserve judgment until the first draft bill hits the floor in March? Not yet:

“I love and respect Marco. I think he’s just amazingly naïve on this issue,” Vitter said. “This is the same old formula that we’ve dealt with before, including when it passed in 1986, and that is promises of enforcement and immediate amnesty. And of course, the promises of enforcement never materialize. The amnesty happens immediately — the millisecond the bill is signed into law, and the same is true here. No, they won’t be citizens immediately. They will be legal.”

“Citizenship is guaranteed at that point as a practical matter,” he added…

“Look, as soon as you give these people a legal status, to say that you’re going to reverse that is ridiculous,” Vitter said. “It’ll never happen. As soon as you give them a legal status, they are here legally forever and probably they’re citizens pretty darn soon after. And if Marco thinks no matter what happens or doesn’t happen on the enforcement side that’s not going to happen, I just think he’s nuts.”

Yeah, Rubio’s wisely focused on the enforcement provisions in his chats with conservative media but even if he gets Schumer et al. to bend a little on those — which I think they will, if only because enforcement can be eroded over time — he’s got the problem Vitter mentions of immediate probationary legal status for illegals who are already here. I don’t think Schumer will be as yielding about that. Neither does National Review, which opposes the bill in part on grounds that, let’s face it, there’s no way Democrats can be trusted on this issue:

[B]roader reform measures must wait until credible enforcement mechanisms are in place. Those mechanisms include, at a minimum, a physically secured border and mandatory universal use of the E-Verify system, which confirms the legal status of new hires. We agree with Senator Rubio’s view that “we can’t be the only nation in the world that does not enforce its immigration laws. . . . Modernization of the legal immigration system is impossible unless we first secure the border and implement an E-Verify system.” We very much doubt that Senator Rubio will achieve meaningful border security in cooperation with Senators Schumer, Durbin, Menendez, and Bennet. The less-of-the-same version being developed in the House with the support of John Boehner and Paul Ryan almost certainly will suffer from similar defects, since it appears to be based on the same premises…

Senator Rubio, an exemplary conservative leader, is correct that our immigration system is broken. And he is correct that, at some point, we are going to have to do something about the millions of illegals already here. But he is wrong about how to go about repairing our immigration system, and wrong to think that an amnesty-and-enforcement bill at this time will end up being anything other than the unbuttered side of a half-a-loaf deal. And there is no reason to make a bad deal for fear of losing a Latino vote Republicans never had.

If you believe, as NR does and as even some liberals acknowledge, that Latinos are likely to go on voting Democratic in the medium-term at least, then it’s perfectly rational for Democrats to go on trying to weaken border security measures in the drafting process and later, after something’s passed. (Passionate supporters of organized labor may disagree, natch.) Meanwhile, Newt Gingrich objects to the bill partly because he objects to the process:

Gingrich, who won applause for his piecemeal immigration reform package during the 2012 GOP presidential primaries, said he would not endorse the bipartisan immigration reform pushed by McCain and Rubio–and that is extremely similar to President Obama’s offering…

“Frankly, I’m pretty tired of a handful of people in Washington, starting with the president, meeting in secret meetings in closed rooms to cut giant deals to come out with a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ vote to then tell the rest of us that it will be a catastrophe if we vote ‘no.’ I think that’s really bad government and I don’t think it produces good ideas,” said Gingrich.

Read Erick Erickson and the boss emeritus for further objections. Conservatives on the Hill are evidently already worried about Rubio getting rolled by Schumer and hurting himself for 2016, but like I said, I think that’s overblown. If worse comes to worst and grassroots opinion turns decisively against the bill, Rubio will turn on it too. He’s already done most of the heavy lifting he needs to do on this issue by making himself a face of immigration reform, no matter what the eventual outcome. And no matter what you think of the bill, his media outreach effort is impressive. It’s not just Rush and Hannity he’s talking to; he came on Ed’s radio show the other day to speak directly to blog readers and he’s got an op-ed today at Red State responding to Erickson’s piece. If you think the GOP suffers from chronically poor messaging, as basically every conservative does, then take some comfort in the fact that this guy knows what he’s doing on that front even if you oppose his goal.

Here’s Coulter with Howie Carr, also in need of a lottttt of persuasion.


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You dont want a conservative Obama? I dont know what to say to that. But the biggest challenger to Rubio in 2016 primaries is Christie and I dont see him gaining much after NH. But it’s a long time from now.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Rubio is actually very lucky to have that Florida backstop. Without it, he would actually be in big trouble just based on who the early primaries favor. Ryan fits in well with Iowa as a Midwestern guy and probably has a good shot at the caucuses. Christie is obviously from the Northeast (but I’d actually caution that Giuliani didn’t play well in NH and Christie is even more obnoxious.) Not sure who South Carolina favors.. Maybe McDonnell, perhaps??

As for Rubio as Obama..the media is going to be more skeptical of an airy platform of nice rhetoric when a Republican is running it. Also, I’m sure that all the personal issues with his family will be brought out unlike Reverand Wright and Bill Ayers.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 5:03 PM

No chimichanga, no deal.

/

Christien on January 30, 2013 at 5:03 PM

Yep. And, any of us that had questions concerning nominating the Godfather of Obamacafre, got called everything but a child of God.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 5:00 PM

So true!! And I won’t forget it, as I carry grudges, LOL Just kidding.

bluefox on January 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) are bumping elbows as both work to establish leadership roles on immigration and education reform while weighing 2016 presidential bids.

Bush has got no chance whatsoever against Rubio in Florida, where a party is looking for young, charismatic guy who can lie through his teeth.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) are bumping elbows as both work to establish leadership roles on immigration and education reform while weighing 2016 presidential bids.

Bush on Friday appeared to criticize Rubio’s strategy for overhauling the nation’s immigration laws through a series of small bills instead of a comprehensive package as “shortsighted and self-defeating,” although he did not name Rubio.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/279475-hints-of-rivalry-surface-as-rubio-and-bush-weigh-2016-bids

bluefox on January 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Umm.. Jeb is attacking Rubio from the left. Which gives him more conservative cred.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 5:05 PM

Ann Coulter high School not hot.

Rusty Allen on January 30, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:42 PM

Just a slight correction. Obama was a 1/3 rd term Senator before running.

But I agree on Rubio. Let him be a media face to help change the narrative, but leave the Presidentin’ to the Governors.

Last thing you need is another speechifying senator running the government.

can_con on January 30, 2013 at 5:06 PM

If Republicans want to be election, they first need to win back the Conservative Base.

Period.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:53 PM

Now that’s just CRAZY TALK!!

We’ll see who “takes the field” for 2016…..

ToddPA on January 30, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Ryan fits in well with Iowa as a Midwestern guy and probably has a good shot at the caucuses.

Yeah, ok. Ryan doesnt bring anything to the the table. I dont want a failed Romney candidate. Bachmann would’ve won Iowa then. Christie wont do well anywhere I think in 4 years time and McDonnell meh.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:07 PM

…because they’re all so honest and law-abiding, right?

AZCoyote on January 30, 2013 at 4:30 PM

We had a street in our very old neighborhood that had a water line replacement that went way long. It devastated the entire block for about two years and the folks that could sold out as the rents fell and the complexion of the street changed. Now the housing has stabilized and have many new owners. Almost exclusively hispanic females are listed as those new owners. I was told it was because they have status by virtue of their babies born here.

DanMan on January 30, 2013 at 5:08 PM

No he doesnt need anything to pass. Apparently you havent learned anything about elections in the past decade. Nobody cares about “accomplishments”. Ryan cant carry Wisconsin and Christie is a blowhard.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:53 PM

Rubio is a Republican and the media has been slobbering over Hillary Clinton… So yes I think that Rubio will need an actual message and platform. The media isn’t going to cover for him like they did for Obama. Rubio’s lack of experience will become an issue as will some of the personal family stuff (dad’s immigration status, brother-in-law’s drug dealing arrest, etc.)

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 5:09 PM

Let him be a media face to help change the narrative, but leave the Presidentin’ to the Governors.

Naive, accomplishments dont matter. If you actually have been paying attention to anything, a speechifying liar, who also speaks spanish is Godsend to winning elections

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Just curious…has Malkin described what kind of immigration reform she would support? I don’t like a lot of what this so-called reform entails either, but I do understand the view some have apparently taken that it’s going to happen anyway, so the GOP might as well have a seat at the table when it does in order to get something out of it. That’s (probably) naive, but there’s aren’t a lot of good options that can pass given that the Dems have the WH and Senate.

changer1701 on January 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Ann Coulter high School not hot.

Rusty Allen on January 30, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Thanks…..I think. At least that answers my concerns…..I think.

KMav on January 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Pass a bill mandating e-verify

It is not employers’ responsibility to enforce feral law.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Correct – it is not the employer’s job – that’s the beauty of E-Verify!!!

The current I-9 form IS the employer’s responsibility.

With E-verify, the entire responsibility goes back on the Feds.
The employer just inputs name and soc sec number – the Feds do the checking and take responsibility, instead of the employer having to review employee’s documents with the (worthless) current I-9 form.

But Lamar Smith’s mandatory E-Verify bill HR 2885 died in Boehner’s House with Dave Camp sitting on his rear end as chair of Ways and Means, with Boehner’s full approval, I’m sure.

fred5678 on January 30, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Conservatives have threatened to stay at home for a long time, but 2012 appears to be the first election where they really made good on that threat.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM

And we got what we deserved : 4 more years of Obama.

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 5:09 PM

alright

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:11 PM

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM

I don’t know. Jeb Bush was a popular Gov. there.

I’ve contended all along that Romney was “selected” to lose in order to make way for Jeb Bush in 2016. The RNC have already indicated they are going to be very active in any Congress seats open also. In other words, they will pick our Primary Candidates.

I’ll have an answer for them if they try that.

bluefox on January 30, 2013 at 5:12 PM

Re-post:

Everything you have heard about either side of this issue is crap.

President Jugears spilled the beans in his Nevada campaign speech. His speechwriters probably didn’t think anybody would notice. But I noticed.

He said that we needed them to come in from the shadow economy. Yep, he said it — go to a mp3 of the speech and listen.

He wasn’t primarily talking about illegal aliens — he was talking about the John Galts among us. There are a lot more of them than even I suspected and they are screwing up the government’s numbers.

The smallest workforce since WW2 yet the indirect taxes from sales of gasoline and similar items are close to normal levels. But the key thing is the gun buyback programs. Every one of them has turned into a street corner gun show with gun buyers with suitcases full of cash buying guns from people standing in line to turn in their weapons for a gift card from the cops.

They are stunned that the economy isn’t crushed despite their efforts. The answer is — going Galt. They need the immigration bill to root out the ones they don’t care about (braceros and other little people). Then everybody who is left in the shadows is either a tea partier, libertarian, or a criminal.

They will use the comprehensive immigration law to cover them going hunting dropouts from the system.

That is why it’s urgent — the official economy (with its 16 trillion) is about to collapse because TOO MANY PEOPLE have dropped out. The death spiral is about to go full throttle and the commies know that the backlash will end up rooting out most of the traitors IF THEY DON’T FIND SOMEONE TO BLAME BEFOREHAND.

Lock and load. And stockpile. There is little time left. Rubio is a useful idiot to the traitors.

platypus on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/30/pushback-gingrich-vitter-national-review-malkin-coulter-erickson-oppose-rubios-immigration-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-6686221

platypus on January 30, 2013 at 5:12 PM

Only one thing counts.

1. Are the Democrats, Schummer, Durbin, Reid, Obama, etal telling the truth?

Evidence: say no.

1986 to now, no real border security, no new funding for border security, no proposed new border operations, nothing.

Judge them for their deeds not what they say.

If it is a con then we do not need to be the marks.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 30, 2013 at 5:14 PM

Yeah, ok. Ryan doesnt bring anything to the the table. I dont want a failed Romney candidate. Bachmann would’ve won Iowa then. Christie wont do well anywhere I think in 4 years time and McDonnell meh.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:07 PM

Umm… Bachman might have actually won Iowa or at least placed if not for the Gardasil fiasco. Ryan is much more moderate in tone and a much better politician/ campaigner. Plus, I believe that his in-laws are from Iowa. Alot of people think Christie has a shot in NH, but I disagree with that. I think that he’ll flame out ala Giuliani. McDonnell is from the South.. hence he might play well in SC. All this is straight analysis, not wishcasting. Rubio’s best bet is to go in with an inevitable front-runner status and scare potential candidates away. In a crowded primary field, however, there is a chance that Rubio could lose the first three primaries.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 5:17 PM

They’re not “coming out of the shadows” they’re standing in from of Loew’s and Home Depot, waiting to be picked up and taken to their Daily Worksite. When they aren’t hassling drivers-by or shoppers.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM

In my old neighborhood/barrio, people stopped coming to Home Depot because they would almost run in front of you going into the parking lot. And God help you if you had a truck. It was like ducks on a June bug. They even had trucks that would sell tacos and stuff on the parking lot. I think enough people complained that they finally stopped. Then they just moved a couple of hundred yards and set up camp under the underpass, leaving it strewn with trash.

TxAnn56 on January 30, 2013 at 5:19 PM

And we got what we deserved : 4 more years of Obama.

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:11 PM

We’re going to keep getting more Democrats elected if the GOP doesn’t clean up its act soon. We had plenty of warning signals about what was going to happen in 2012, but they were all ignored because the GOP was convinced Obama would be easy to roll over.

The GOP needs to deal with reality instead of trying to create a “fantasy base” of left-leaning independents (which failed in 2012) or Hispanics (which will fail in 2014 and 2016).

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:25 PM

changer1701 on January 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM

In 2007 the Dems had the House and Senate and a Republican President who would have signed any amnesty.Yet the last amnesty was defeated because Americans really don’t want to reward criminals. I’m happy to see this immigration “reform” bill die in the House were the GOP can stop it.

Hera on January 30, 2013 at 5:28 PM

I’ve contended all along that Romney was “selected” to lose in order to make way for Jeb Bush in 2016. The RNC have already indicated they are going to be very active in any Congress seats open also. In other words, they will pick our Primary Candidates.

I’ll have an answer for them if they try that.

bluefox on January 30, 2013 at 5:12 PM

Yeah, that would be electoral suicide. We’ve had two left-leaning candidates now in the form of McCain and Romney, and the GOP appears to have already forgotten that the Tea Party movement had its beginnings in revolt against Bush in 2006, and not Obama. I do think Jeb is the “planned” candidate for 2016, and I think the GOP is going to lose badly again as a larger and larger portion of the base gives up and stays home in response.

What the GOP needs is a conservative governor with a good track record (especially fiscal), that the establishment is willing to support. We’ve already learned what happens to insurgent candidates beloved by the base but loathed by the Republican leadership.

However, I think it’s unlikely such a candidate will be able to emerge. I think it’s far more likely the GOP will continue running Bushes/McCains/Romneys and keep losing until the party just dissolves like the Whigs.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:32 PM

We’re going to keep getting more Democrats elected if the GOP doesn’t clean up its act soon. We had plenty of warning signals about what was going to happen in 2012, but they were all ignored because the GOP was convinced Obama would be easy to roll over.

The GOP needs to deal with reality instead of trying to create a “fantasy base” of left-leaning independents (which failed in 2012) or Hispanics (which will fail in 2014 and 2016).

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Any suggestions?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM

“I love and respect Marco. I think he’s just amazingly naïve on this issue,” Vitter said.

Don’t forget Vitter is from Louisiana. This is his senatorial version of, “Why, bless his heart.”

INC on January 30, 2013 at 5:36 PM

3rd look at Newt!

davemason2k on January 30, 2013 at 5:38 PM

How much do you want to make a bet that if another RINO is a Republican candidate in 2016, Hannity, and possibly Rush, will dutifully support him. I’m with Beck. Third Party. You can’t trust the Republicans.

Decoski on January 30, 2013 at 5:41 PM

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:10 PM

Naive? How have the R’s done with Senators as the candidate the last 40 years?

can_con on January 30, 2013 at 5:43 PM

I’m with Beck. Third Party.

Decoski on January 30, 2013 at 5:41 PM

Which one?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:44 PM

Any suggestions?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:34 PM

As I suggested above, step one is find a conservative governor that the base would support, with a good fiscal track record, and get them to start raising money for a run immediately. Scott Walker is an obvious candidate, and I think my personal favorite, Mike Pence, has a good chance at developing into such a candidate as well.

Step 2 is the GOP leadership needs to not run screaming to the press about how “radical and extreme” this theoretical candidate is, and otherwise not work closely with the Democrat media to annihilate them in favor of someone like Jeb Bush or Chris Christie.

Not that I think the GOP will do this. I think they would rather continue losing than support a conservative.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:47 PM

What the GOP needs is a conservative governor with a good track record (especially fiscal), that the establishment is willing to support.
Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:32 PM

Mike Pence. He was my first choice for 2012. I wonder if he went for the governorship to solidify his credentials for down the road.

TxAnn56 on January 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM

When was the last time Coulter was happy with anything the GOP has done? Who cares about that malcontent anyway. Same with some of those others objecting to Rubio’s proposals. And Gingrich is our party’s worst critic…you lost, Newt. Go away. I give Rubio credit for sticking his neck out, whether he’s doing so “naively” or not.

scalleywag on January 30, 2013 at 5:50 PM

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:47 PM

Agreed. Governors by definition are better than senators. What do you like in Pence and what would be a dealbreaker for your support?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Mike Pence. He was my first choice for 2012. I wonder if he went for the governorship to solidify his credentials for down the road.

TxAnn56 on January 30, 2013 at 5:48 PM

I’ve been hoping this is the case. Pence is pretty much my ideal candidate for 2016 and given how some of the other hopefuls (Ryan, Rubio, and Christie) have all disappointed, I’m hoping he will get started raising money and jump in. Walker seems like the only other credible potential choice right now. I don’t think Palin is going to stage a comeback; I think 2011-2012 was her moment and she let it pass.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

scalleywag on January 30, 2013 at 5:50 PM

I agree with Newt and Rubio both. We need to demand border enforcement and at the same time accept the reality that we must come up with a doable plan for dealing with illegals already here. Those that don’t live in Realville always stop short of telling us how we should forcefully evict 19 million people.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Ann Coulter high School not hot.

Rusty Allen on January 30, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Hey now. Most of my female classmates in high school had The Rachel (or a derivative of it).

Myron Falwell on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Rubio is spot on right. The stubborness of too many in our camp over immigration and illegals already here will only serve to keep us divided. As I’ve said repeadly over the past few years…conservatives/GOPers need cohesion and junity if we’re ever going to win Washington and we must remain dedicated to what we come up with.

There are a ton of issues that need serious addressing…and immigration laws are only one part of it. If we can’t do that, then why bother.

JetBoy on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Agreed. Governors by definition are better than senators. What do you like in Pence and what would be a dealbreaker for your support?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

This is a big one: http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/governor-pushes-budget-state-state-address-43426/

This is also a big deal for me: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/15/mike-pences-first-move-a-regulatory-moratorium-for-indiana/

And there is this: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45680.html

No single issue is a dealbreaker for me. Some things I don’t want to see are tons of proposals to increase a lot of spending, loud support for amnesty, no support for debt ceiling increases or more borrowing, and I definitely don’t want to see attacks on social conservatives. To expand on the last, I’m not by any means a social conservative, but these people make up a key significant voting GOP bloc and we need to stop treating them like despised lepers. Yes, morons like Akin hurt the GOP, but it hurts us even more if social conservatives stay home on election day.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Et tu,Limbaugh?

redware on January 30, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Bush has got no chance whatsoever against Rubio in Florida, where a party is looking for young, charismatic guy who can lie through his teeth.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 5:04 PM

so true. Adios, Stupid Party. You lost with McCain and you lost with Romney, because they weren’t conservative enough. The GOP’s former base stayed home. You peddle more of this amnesty crap dressed up as ‘immigration reform’ and you’ll never win another.

rayra on January 30, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Et tu,Limbaugh?

redware on January 30, 2013 at 6:07 PM

moron, or fraud? I mean YOU, redware.

rayra on January 30, 2013 at 6:09 PM

…unless he ends up voting for a watered-down Democratic bill with token enforcement (which he won’t),

I wouldn’t want to bet the farm on that presumtion. I believe he has shown himself to be incredibly naive on this issue (he’d call it being “real”)

He’s acting like the proverbial rube from the sticks who believes that three card monte played by Schumer and Menendez is a honest game and he can always figure out where the queen is.

The only way Rubio can win anything is to remember three key points

1. The Democrats will always support border enforcement before the bill is passed.

2. The Democrats will never support border enforcement after the bill is passed.

3. The Democrats will always lie

When in doubt, refer to number 3.

Sheesh, that I have to even make this point makes me nervous about his qualifications to be president.

“President Marco we have some people in the outer office who claim the Panama Canal is for sale”

In addition, a new poll shows that the majority of Hispanics who voted Democrat did so because 70% of them want larger government with larger benefits.

Only 6% responded that immigration reform was why they voted Democrat, why are we (Republican/Conservatives) bothering with this at all in view of this survey?

E9RET on January 30, 2013 at 6:10 PM

Rubio is spot on right. The stubborness of too many in our camp over immigration and illegals already here will only serve to keep us divided. As I’ve said repeadly over the past few years…conservatives/GOPers need cohesion and junity if we’re ever going to win Washington and we must remain dedicated to what we come up with.

There are a ton of issues that need serious addressing…and immigration laws are only one part of it. If we can’t do that, then why bother.

JetBoy on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

No. Rubio is a fool. Ann Coulter is spot-on. I just read her column from today, and I could’ve written it myself.

Amnesty is not the answer, as it will cause more more illegal immigration, and the border will never be sealed. Rubio is in la-la land.

The answer is enforcement of current laws, improving border security, and deporting the illegals as they are picked up. As these policies become widespread, the rest will self-deport. Problem solved.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:12 PM

MARCO is a threat to Coulters Jersey lover boy in 2016.

But……..it’s FREAKING AMNESTY!!!!!

And SCHUMER is supporting it, and Obama is playing bad cop to SCHUMER and Durbins plan.

Politicians……..despicable!

PappyD61 on January 30, 2013 at 6:13 PM

I agree with Newt and Rubio both. We need to demand border enforcement and at the same time accept the reality that we must come up with a doable plan for dealing with illegals already here. Those that don’t live in Realville always stop short of telling us how we should forcefully evict 19 million people.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

HERE is the doable plan — attrition through enforcement.
Check the demographics in this poll — the only one to offer all three clear choices, and with specific legislation, to boot!

And watch how it works, as explained by this illegal alien, leaving on his own accord. No fuss, no muss, no mass deportations, just strict law enforcement and denial of benefits. “If I can’t get a driver’s license and I can’t get a job, I’m going home.”

Attrition is the most popular, efficient, economic and just solution and is too often ignored — by Newt and his ilk, for instance, who always pose the false dichotomy of: “We can’t deport 12 million people, THEREFORE we must make them citizens.” Baloney.

Any politician who ignores attrition through enforcement as a solution is disingenuous at best. And any politician who treats the “Hispanic vote” as a monolithic bloc demanding amnesty is a “racist”, even though Hispanic isn’t a race, of course. 54% to 40% for amnesty is not a monolithic block – check the poll.

fred5678 on January 30, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Just as long as whatever the Dems give up comes first. Is that too much to ask?

Fred 2 on January 30, 2013 at 6:15 PM

Myron Falwell on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

I guess I lack perspective on the hair dos of yesteryear. :)

Rusty Allen on January 30, 2013 at 6:19 PM

If they are incapable of enforcement and border control then how can Rubio/Democrats promise enforcement and border control after amnesty?

If they are capable of enforcement and border control then why don’t they do that?

sharrukin on January 30, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Jindal, Paul, and Christie have all kept quiet and Ryan has actually endorsed Rubio’s plan.

Bingo! Unless Cruz or Scott Walker decides to run is Rubio any worse than those listed above? We need someone who is not a complete stiff. This is really important folks. I know many of you have your favorite conservative you would like to see run, but do they have it, you know articulation skills and the ability to win over a majority of Americans, not just you and your circle of friends. Remember the America we live in today (the one that somehow elected Obama twice!), scary thought but we must make the most of what it is.

So give Rubio some slack even if you are anti-immigration. This is more about him taking an issue away from Obama. If it is killed, which I suspect it will be, it is still a win for Rubio. This is about PR, and conservatives better realize that nothing is going to get done in the next four years except battles over PR and over 2014 and 2016. If the GOP can somehow get back the Senate it will help in the PR battle, but Obama will just turn into a veto machine and run around the country giving speeches to raise money to set up his cult after 2016.

William Eaton on January 30, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Isn’t anyone concerned about losing even more of our base than the 8 million or so who didn’t show up in November?If you think this is going to play well among evangelicals,married women and white males you are delusional, I would be a hell of a lot more worried about that 8 million than the 11 million soon to be “legal” aliens.The GOP is overplaying the “lesser of two evils” strategy that allows them to veer left at will,knowing that conservatives will play along.Didn’t work so well in ’08,and even worse in ’12.If you couldn’t get the base out to vote for Romney,the grandfather of Obamacare,do you think they will come out to vote for one of the fathers of amnesty?

redware on January 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM

I definitely don’t want to see attacks on social conservatives. To expand on the last, I’m not by any means a social conservative, but these people make up a key significant voting GOP bloc and we need to stop treating them like despised lepers. Yes, morons like Akin hurt the GOP, but it hurts us even more if social conservatives stay home on election day.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 6:03 PM

You are exactly right here. Mitch Daniels lost all support for me at the national level when he called for the truce on social issues. And Akin was as much a fool for saying what he said and doubling down on it. Moral of the story: keep your trap shut on issues that could hurt you and focus on winning issues.

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM

fred5678 on January 30, 2013 at 6:14 PM

That may work for those that came here recently, but there are so many illegals that have been here so long it would be almost inhumane to force them to leave now in my humble opinion. But I also know that the influx of illegals could be dramatically reduced if we could enlist those that have been here for a time to help curb illegal immigration in exchange for citizenship. Attrition sounds good on paper, but I think we need a new approach. I’m with Marco.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM

We need someone who is not a complete stiff. This is really important folks.

Why is it important?

If he is going to do exactly what the Democrats are going to do, then how is that better than what the Democrats are going to do?

I know many of you have your favorite conservative you would like to see run, but do they have it, you know articulation skills and the ability to win over a majority of Americans, not just you and your circle of friends.

William Eaton on January 30, 2013 at 6:20 PM

Why not just vote for Obama, or the next Democrat?

sharrukin on January 30, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Whig.

Bmore on January 30, 2013 at 6:24 PM

No. Rubio is a fool. Ann Coulter is spot-on. I just read her column from today, and I could’ve written it myself.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Yes, coming from the woman who wants to have Chris Christie’s baby. The same Christie who made love to Obama on national TV….

William Eaton on January 30, 2013 at 6:25 PM

conservatives/GOPers need cohesion and junity if we’re ever going to win Washington and we must remain dedicated to what we come up with.

There are a ton of issues that need serious addressing…and immigration laws are only one part of it. If we can’t do that, then why bother.

JetBoy on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

How’s this for cohesion and unity:

66% of Conservatives
63% of Blacks
62% of Republicans
60% of independents
57% of Whites
51% of Moderates
50% of Democrats
40% of Hispanics

Guess what they are all agreed on – not amnesty, but attrition through enforcement.

As demonstrated by this guy.

fred5678 on January 30, 2013 at 6:25 PM

If the Republicans like minority status in Congress, by all means shoot! News flash, the enforcement portion of this bill WILL NEVER BE ENFORCED. In 2016, we will have approx. 11 million new democrat voters making southern congressional districts winnable for democrats. Those are the facts, live with it!

jjnco73 on January 30, 2013 at 6:25 PM

Another reality is we need Hispanics in the workforce. Young Americans are becoming too soft to do the manual labor no matter how much the job pays.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:26 PM

That may work for those that came here recently, but there are so many illegals that have been here so long it would be almost inhumane to force them to leave now in my humble opinion.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:21 PM

You know what else is inhumane?

Tearing mothers and fathers away from their small children and sending them to jail or prison when they break the law.

So why is it OK to do that to American citizens, but not Mexican citizens?

sharrukin on January 30, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Those that don’t live in Realville always stop short of telling us how we should forcefully evict 19 million people.

mike_NC9

That’s because there’s not much point in offering solutions to people who make straw man arguments like yours. It would be a waste of time.

xblade on January 30, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Another reality is we need Hispanics in the workforce. Young Americans are becoming too soft to do the manual labor no matter how much the job pays.

mike_NC9

And now the truth comes out. You don’t want them to leave. No wonder you haven’t entertained any solutions that would result in them leaving.

xblade on January 30, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Another reality is we need Hispanics in the workforce. Young Americans are becoming too soft to do the manual labor no matter how much the job pays.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:26 PM

75 percent of janitors, 65 percent of groundskeepers and landscapers, 58 percent of taxi drivers and 55 percent of maids and housekeepers were native born.

What jobs are you talking about?

sharrukin on January 30, 2013 at 6:32 PM

No. Rubio is a fool. Ann Coulter is spot-on. I just read her column from today, and I could’ve written it myself.

Amnesty is not the answer, as it will cause more more illegal immigration, and the border will never be sealed. Rubio is in la-la land.

The answer is enforcement of current laws, improving border security, and deporting the illegals as they are picked up. As these policies become widespread, the rest will self-deport. Problem solved.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:12 PM

I love Ann Coulter. Heck, she grew up in the same Conn. town I did. I’ve read her books and find her intensely interesting, but not always right…like her comments on Muslims at CPAC a few years ago for one example. It’s Rubio who is correct on immigration tho.

I’ve known and worked with illegals when I was bartending at a couple of restaurants…they were good people, hard workers, and family oriented, many with children, usually with 2 or 3 jobs going. That alone isn’t a reason to say “forget immigration laws” or “Ignore it” but it’s certainly something to think about.

So when you say we should deport illegals as they are found, you’re tearing families apart. I hope you realize that. Many of those here illegally are absolutely terrified of being sent packing. Again, that’s no legal excuse…I agree…but this situation is not a black and white thing or any easy fix.

The term “amnesty” is one of the most misused and misunderstood out there. And I’m all for securing the border…put it on lockdown, whatever it takes. Remember, more than half of illegals in the US didn’t jump the fence, they came here legally, on visas, and simply stayed beyond the allotted time. No amount of barbed wire or concrete barriers would stop that.

JetBoy on January 30, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Any conservative that sat the election out because Romney was too moderate is a frigging moron. Period. As for Rubio, at least hes getting out in front of Obama and the dems on this issue. If there is guaranteed border security with actual verification FIRST, I will consider supporting the proposal.

Jack_Burton on January 30, 2013 at 6:33 PM

So give Rubio some slack even if you are anti-immigration.

William Eaton on January 30, 2013 at 6:20 PM

No. No slack. The days of slack are over. Way over. And you betray yourelf with the crap line “anti-immigration.” It’s anti illegal immigration. Once again, for the thousandth time, for the ideologically impaired.

rrpjr on January 30, 2013 at 6:35 PM

I’m the most humane person around However, Illegals cannot be allowed to break the law with impunity. They are already getting benefits that should be for citizens only. And that just isn’t right.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 6:36 PM

So Ed, let me get this straight………Bloggers, Talk Hosts and Conservative Periodicals are against the Rubio Plan. Because we all know that’s a very difficult position for them to take. It’s not like they would take the red meat position because it’s just…easier? Right?

Bush got 44 percent. Mr. Amnesty John McCain got 31 (after Sensenbrenner’s Anti Illegal Bill and that entire wedge summer) and Mitt got 27 percent because the went to the right. This is all within 8 years.

Math is math. You don’t want to win nationally in the future, don’t make a deal.

AYNBLAND on January 30, 2013 at 6:36 PM

scalleywag on January 30, 2013 at 5:50 PM

I agree with Newt and Rubio both. We need to demand border enforcement and at the same time accept the reality that we must come up with a doable plan for dealing with illegals already here. Those that don’t live in Realville always stop short of telling us how we should forcefully evict 19 million people.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 5:54 PM

We don’t have to deport them all. We start enforcing the laws and deporting them and they will self-deport.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:36 PM

Yep, naive to say the least. It was disgusting to see that picture of Rubio with Schumer and his shiiteeating grin over Rubio’s shoulder. The ‘rats are trying and will make hay over Rubio’s evolutionary “coming out.” Sorry to see Rubio compromised so early in his Senate career.

RoyalFlush on January 30, 2013 at 6:37 PM

“I love and respect Marco. I think he’s just amazingly naïve on this issue.”

Whoever said this is absolutely pathetic and sounds like some teenage girl trying to defend some pervert she still has a big crush on.

VorDaj on January 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM

sharrukin on January 30, 2013 at 6:27 PM

What do you have against Mexicans? To me, we’re all God’s children. I know a 17 year old high school student that has been here since she was 2. Her father was a real criminal that spent time in prison and then was deported. I want the border closed and people like my friend and her sweet, hardworking mom to stay. I also want criminals that should be in prison to be in prison. I just don’t see things strictly in black and white (or brown)like you do.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM

Yes, coming from the woman who wants to have Chris Christie’s baby. The same Christie who made love to Obama on national TV….

William Eaton on January 30, 2013 at 6:25 PM

What does any of this have to do with the specific column that was written by Ann Coulter today that I said I agree with?

Answer: absolutely nothing.

If you like Rubio’s proposal, then defend it. Otherwise get off my back, jack.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM

Native Born Whig.

Bmore on January 30, 2013 at 6:44 PM

What do you have against Mexicans? To me, we’re all God’s children.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM

So what. Adolf Hitler and Joesph Stalin were God’s children. Why have Mexicans coming in by the tens of millions while Obama is keeping out Chinese and Ukrainians and just about everyone else except Muslims? What do you have against all those other God’s children? What kind of racist are you?

VorDaj on January 30, 2013 at 6:45 PM

What do you have against Mexicans?

Racist is what a liberal says when he is losing the argument.

To me, we’re all God’s children.

Are Mexicans in Mexico not God’s children?

Does being in Mexico mean you somehow lose that privileged status as a Child Of God?

I know a 17 year old high school student that has been here since she was 2. Her father was a real criminal that spent time in prison and then was deported. I want the border closed and people like my friend and her sweet, hardworking mom to stay. I also want criminals that should be in prison to be in prison.

If she isn’t a citizen then she isn’t one.

Her parents breaking the law and her own lawbreaking as she reaches adulthood, doesn’t grant her any special privileges, and the cowardice of people like you in refusing to enforce the law in past years doesn’t magically grant her citizenship either.

I just don’t see things strictly in black and white (or brown)like you do.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM

Racist again?

Try something original.

sharrukin on January 30, 2013 at 6:47 PM

JetBoy on January 30, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Where in all that touchy-feely, bleeding heart crapola did you address my points, and Ann Coulter’s?

I live in AZ. Barack Ovomit has been suing the state of AZ to PREVENT us from sealing the border.

They have not been sealing the borders, and they have no intention of sealing the borders. Rubio is an utter fool if he believes that. All we have to do to know that is to look at what happened in ’86 when Reagan agreed to the “one time amnesty” with the promise the border would be sealed.

Rewarding the illegals who are already here will only encourage more to come illegally. That’s what happened in ’86, and that’s what will happen now. It will make the problem worse, not better.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:47 PM

Another important point for the genetically challenged! If the Republicans cave on this, you can kiss the 2nd amendment goodbye. There will be NO avenue to stop Federal legislation on gun control. Remember Obamacare?

jjnco73 on January 30, 2013 at 6:48 PM

I’m on Team Let It Burn, not Team Nuclear Armageddon. Let’s allow Obama to have his tax and spend binge, but let’s not reshape the electorate to the point where conservatives will never be in power again no matter how badly the Dems F up the country.

Doughboy

Well said.

Yup. Actually a critical component is E-Verify.
Let E-Verirfy be in place for 5 or more years before we even consider amnesty. Most would go home, and so we can then consider amnesty. Then, and only then.

anotherJoe

But but but, 150% of them won’t home, so this isn’t a viable solution.

Yep.. If you demand politicians agree with you 100%, then you end up losing.

Illinidiva

I guess when you can’t come up with a legitimate argument, a little straw is as good a substitute as any.

Ryan fits in well with Iowa as a Midwestern guy and probably has a good shot at the caucuses.

Illinidiva

Ryan is a former losing VP candidate in the House of Representatives who has never won anything beyond his gerrymandered district in Wisconsin. He has already lost the 2016 election, lol.

Immigration is a net loser for Republicans. It makes them look like angry white men.

Illinidiva

Well then, we better get 30 million new democrat voters here lickety split. By the way, any other democrat talking points you’d like to spew while you’re here? You do know no one here is buying your schtick, right? Now how about fixing you’re own screwed up state of Illinois before helping to destroy the rest of the country m’kay?

xblade on January 30, 2013 at 6:49 PM

When I look at Marco Rubio, now all I see is the face of John McCain staring back at me and swear I can almost hear, “My friends, my friends …” coming from his mendacious mouth. It has become very clear that Rubio is The Man Who Never Was. Get over it teenage girls. He’s just an actor with a no longer very convincing act. Perhaps in the next Batman movie, as the series gets more worn out, he can play a composite of the Joker and Two-Face.

VorDaj on January 30, 2013 at 6:49 PM

The bottom line: self-serving rubio wants to be a hero to the millions and millions of ILLEGALS in florida – and hopes with his support for AMNESTY they’ll vote to keep him in office for life (instead of casting fraudulent votes for d-cRAT socialist as they have been doing for decades.) He’s wrong, of course.

TeaPartyNation on January 30, 2013 at 6:51 PM

When I look at Marco Rubio, now all I see is the face of John McCain staring back at me and swear I can almost hear, “My friends, my friends …” coming from his mendacious mouth. It has become very clear that Rubio is The Man Who Never Was. Get over it teenage girls. He’s just an actor with a no longer very convincing act. Perhaps in the next Batman movie, as the series gets more worn out, he can play a composite of the Joker and Two-Face.

VorDaj on January 30, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Funny, Rubio is Harvey Dent!

jjnco73 on January 30, 2013 at 6:53 PM

Natural Born Whig.

Bmore on January 30, 2013 at 6:54 PM

What do you have against Mexicans? To me, we’re all God’s children. I know a 17 year old high school student that has been here since she was 2. Her father was a real criminal that spent time in prison and then was deported. I want the border closed and people like my friend and her sweet, hardworking mom to stay. I also want criminals that should be in prison to be in prison. I just don’t see things strictly in black and white (or brown)like you do.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2013 at 6:39 PM

Are they here legally? Then I have no problem with them staying. If they aren’t here legally, then the sweet, hardworking mom is a criminal, because she’s either working under the table and not paying taxes, or she’s committing identity theft.

Close the border. Then maybe we can talk about making special provisions for anchor babies who were born here several years ago, but we all know they have no intention of closing the border. We’ve been down this road before, and all you bleeding hearts are the ones who don’t understand reality.

JannyMae on January 30, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Whether Rubio is right or not, he is still a freaking RINO. As is Chris Christie. And Coulter. And Hannity.

Faramir on January 30, 2013 at 6:58 PM

With a ‘friend’ like Rubio, America, and it’s future, needs no enemies.

VorDaj on January 30, 2013 at 7:02 PM

Good article by Mickey Kaus on Fox’s support of amnesty

Judging from FOX’s coverage of the Obama Las Vegas immigration speech, here’s how the network will attempt the tricky task of fooling its conservative audience into supporting an amnesty–or at least into not noticing that FOX is supporting an amnesty:

TxAnn56 on January 30, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Which, will not work either!

jjnco73 on January 30, 2013 at 7:03 PM

I trust Michelle Malkin–implicitly.

SouthernGent on January 30, 2013 at 7:04 PM

Why don’t the Republicans ever talk about how more poverty immigrants/amnesty makes poor citizens even poorer? It’s absurd that the poor could support bringing in more competition for their jobs and wages. Unlimited jobs and increasing wages is not a possibility in our importer nation, and to make us an exporter nation would require millions of people trying to survive in the US on Chinese peasant wages.

Buddahpundit on January 30, 2013 at 7:04 PM

So when you say we should deport illegals as they are found, you’re tearing families apart. I hope you realize that. Many of those here illegally are absolutely terrified of being sent packing. Again, that’s no legal excuse…I agree…but this situation is not a black and white thing or any easy fix.

The term “amnesty” is one of the most misused and misunderstood out there. And I’m all for securing the border…put it on lockdown, whatever it takes. Remember, more than half of illegals in the US didn’t jump the fence, they came here legally, on visas, and simply stayed beyond the allotted time. No amount of barbed wire or concrete barriers would stop that.

JetBoy on January 30, 2013 at 6:33 PM

So? Don’t families get torn apart every day when someone gets sent to prison, or killed in a gang shooting, or is bankrupted from civil fines and penalties? Why does this class of law-breaking get special treatment? If they don’t want their family broken up, they shouldn’t have broken the law.

Nutstuyu on January 30, 2013 at 7:05 PM

Why does immigration “reform” always have to be about what helps illegal immigrants? It should be about what is best for US citizens!

Proper immigration reform would do away with birthright citizenship and the stupid immigration lottery as well as raise legal immigration standards based on US needs.

Why must our government be Santa Claus to the third world when we have so many social & economic problems?

Chessplayer on January 30, 2013 at 7:06 PM

Whether Rubio is right or not, he is still a freaking RINO. As is Chris Christie. And Coulter. And Hannity.

Faramir on January 30, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Not that I disagree, but I’m begining to wonder exactly what would make someone not a RINO? Maybe we can come up something else/better to describe them, or us non-RINO’s?

Nutstuyu on January 30, 2013 at 7:06 PM

No matter. In my mind his eligibility is out the window with the bath water.

Bmore on January 30, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Which, will not work either!

jjnco73 on January 30, 2013 at 7:03 PM

Of course not. Hannity lost 50% of his viewers after he “evolved” on amnesty 2 days after the election. I rarely even watch Fox anymore since they’re no longer an alternative to the MSM.

TxAnn56 on January 30, 2013 at 7:08 PM

La Raza ♥ Rubio

VorDaj on January 30, 2013 at 7:09 PM

75 percent of janitors, 65 percent of groundskeepers and landscapers, 58 percent of taxi drivers and 55 percent of maids and housekeepers were native born.

What jobs are you talking about?

sharrukin

Why, high tech jobs of course. Pay no attention to the current legal Hispanic unemployment rate of 11% though.

Young Americans are becoming too soft to do the manual labor no matter how much the job pays.

mike_NC9

So you’re a bigot AND a hypocrite, lol.

xblade on January 30, 2013 at 7:10 PM

Of course not. Hannity lost 50% of his viewers after he “evolved” on amnesty 2 days after the election. I rarely even watch Fox anymore since they’re no longer an alternative to the MSM.

TxAnn56 on January 30, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Hi Ann, I love your state!

jjnco73 on January 30, 2013 at 7:10 PM

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