Pushback: Gingrich, Vitter, National Review, Malkin, Coulter, Erickson oppose Rubio’s immigration plan

posted at 3:51 pm on January 30, 2013 by Allahpundit

The key subplot to Rubio’s immigration push, of course, is how much of a headache it’ll be for him with conservatives in the 2016 primaries. The talk-radio charm offensive is mainly designed to get grassroots opinion-shapers like Rush to at least wait and see what the bill looks like before lobbying against it, but more broadly it’s designed to move the Overton window on what positions are acceptable for a good conservative to hold. Rubio can afford to have immigration reform fail; he can’t afford to be RINO-ized over it. Like I said yesterday, whether or not a bill ends up passing, he’s already achieved something significant by getting Rush et al. to acknowledge that “recognizing reality” in terms of a grand bargain on immigration is something “admirable and noteworthy.” No matter what happens now, unless he ends up voting for a watered-down Democratic bill with token enforcement (which he won’t), he’s got that as a soundbite for his primary ads in 2016. James Antle makes a good point too in noting that none of Rubio’s would-be rivals for the nomination have attacked him on this yet. Jindal, Paul, and Christie have all kept quiet and Ryan has actually endorsed Rubio’s plan. The likely candidates don’t want to alienate Latino voters and the pundits with big audiences don’t want to kneecap a guy who might end up being the party’s best chance to regain the presidency.

So how’s all of this playing with conservatives in the Senate and online? Is Rubiomania enough in itself to convince people to reserve judgment until the first draft bill hits the floor in March? Not yet:

“I love and respect Marco. I think he’s just amazingly naïve on this issue,” Vitter said. “This is the same old formula that we’ve dealt with before, including when it passed in 1986, and that is promises of enforcement and immediate amnesty. And of course, the promises of enforcement never materialize. The amnesty happens immediately — the millisecond the bill is signed into law, and the same is true here. No, they won’t be citizens immediately. They will be legal.”

“Citizenship is guaranteed at that point as a practical matter,” he added…

“Look, as soon as you give these people a legal status, to say that you’re going to reverse that is ridiculous,” Vitter said. “It’ll never happen. As soon as you give them a legal status, they are here legally forever and probably they’re citizens pretty darn soon after. And if Marco thinks no matter what happens or doesn’t happen on the enforcement side that’s not going to happen, I just think he’s nuts.”

Yeah, Rubio’s wisely focused on the enforcement provisions in his chats with conservative media but even if he gets Schumer et al. to bend a little on those — which I think they will, if only because enforcement can be eroded over time — he’s got the problem Vitter mentions of immediate probationary legal status for illegals who are already here. I don’t think Schumer will be as yielding about that. Neither does National Review, which opposes the bill in part on grounds that, let’s face it, there’s no way Democrats can be trusted on this issue:

[B]roader reform measures must wait until credible enforcement mechanisms are in place. Those mechanisms include, at a minimum, a physically secured border and mandatory universal use of the E-Verify system, which confirms the legal status of new hires. We agree with Senator Rubio’s view that “we can’t be the only nation in the world that does not enforce its immigration laws. . . . Modernization of the legal immigration system is impossible unless we first secure the border and implement an E-Verify system.” We very much doubt that Senator Rubio will achieve meaningful border security in cooperation with Senators Schumer, Durbin, Menendez, and Bennet. The less-of-the-same version being developed in the House with the support of John Boehner and Paul Ryan almost certainly will suffer from similar defects, since it appears to be based on the same premises…

Senator Rubio, an exemplary conservative leader, is correct that our immigration system is broken. And he is correct that, at some point, we are going to have to do something about the millions of illegals already here. But he is wrong about how to go about repairing our immigration system, and wrong to think that an amnesty-and-enforcement bill at this time will end up being anything other than the unbuttered side of a half-a-loaf deal. And there is no reason to make a bad deal for fear of losing a Latino vote Republicans never had.

If you believe, as NR does and as even some liberals acknowledge, that Latinos are likely to go on voting Democratic in the medium-term at least, then it’s perfectly rational for Democrats to go on trying to weaken border security measures in the drafting process and later, after something’s passed. (Passionate supporters of organized labor may disagree, natch.) Meanwhile, Newt Gingrich objects to the bill partly because he objects to the process:

Gingrich, who won applause for his piecemeal immigration reform package during the 2012 GOP presidential primaries, said he would not endorse the bipartisan immigration reform pushed by McCain and Rubio–and that is extremely similar to President Obama’s offering…

“Frankly, I’m pretty tired of a handful of people in Washington, starting with the president, meeting in secret meetings in closed rooms to cut giant deals to come out with a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ vote to then tell the rest of us that it will be a catastrophe if we vote ‘no.’ I think that’s really bad government and I don’t think it produces good ideas,” said Gingrich.

Read Erick Erickson and the boss emeritus for further objections. Conservatives on the Hill are evidently already worried about Rubio getting rolled by Schumer and hurting himself for 2016, but like I said, I think that’s overblown. If worse comes to worst and grassroots opinion turns decisively against the bill, Rubio will turn on it too. He’s already done most of the heavy lifting he needs to do on this issue by making himself a face of immigration reform, no matter what the eventual outcome. And no matter what you think of the bill, his media outreach effort is impressive. It’s not just Rush and Hannity he’s talking to; he came on Ed’s radio show the other day to speak directly to blog readers and he’s got an op-ed today at Red State responding to Erickson’s piece. If you think the GOP suffers from chronically poor messaging, as basically every conservative does, then take some comfort in the fact that this guy knows what he’s doing on that front even if you oppose his goal.

Here’s Coulter with Howie Carr, also in need of a lottttt of persuasion.


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Go ahead GOP, get smoked checked again by the Dems…

major dad on January 30, 2013 at 3:53 PM

As do I.

Bmore on January 30, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Cue Price is Right “you lose” jingle

Oh….Paul/Cruz 2016!

Oil Can on January 30, 2013 at 3:53 PM

Malkin also agress that Rubio is repeating all of RINO McCain’s tragic stupidity about AMNESTY.

AMNESTY is what this is, NOT ‘Immigration Reform’.

SAY NO TO AMNESTY.

rayra on January 30, 2013 at 3:56 PM

Gingrich, Vitter, National Review, Malkin, Coulter, Erickson oppose Rubio’s immigration plan

Those who oppose Rubio are Far right wing fanatics!!! Tea Bagger crazy racist zealots!!! Nutjobs O’Donnell fruitcakes!!!

-Romnubiobush Republican Clans

portlandon on January 30, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Romney won 27% of the Hispanic vote. Will the next Republican win these 10-25 million illegal Hispanics? Almost certainly not.

First, if you remove the Cubans from Romney’s vote, he probably got closer to 20%. There are almost no illegal Cubans.

Second, illegals tend to be younger people. And younger voters lean democratic.

Thirdly, illegals are likely poorer then the Hispanic citizen voters. Poorer voters lean democratic.

Republicans would be LUCKY to win 20% of these illegal Hispanic immigrants.

Pure suicide.

KMav on January 30, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Does this mean NR and Ann Coulter stop getting heckled with cries of “RINO”?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Amnesty already has alienated the conservative base. The damage is already done. Now can we get on fight this travesty?

voiceofreason on January 30, 2013 at 4:00 PM

I like Rubio, but those are correct. If the r’s for one second thinks that the border will be secure, well a bridge someplace needs to be bought! dear sis, holder, etc will see to it that that NEVER happens and NO illegal aliens will get the boot? I don’t care what those worms say, more illegals stay than get the boot!
L

letget on January 30, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Neither does National Review, which opposes the bill in part on grounds that, let’s face it, there’s no way Democrats can be trusted on this issue

That’s the #1 reason I’m opposed to it. I respect Rubio and believe he’s sincere about wanting to deal with this issue, but he’s way too naive. What logical reason would the Dems(particularly Obama) have for following through on the border security measures? Because they gave us their word?

The only way this bill should pass is if the entire thing is tied directly to border enforcement. As in, if the border isn’t secured, the rest of the bill is automatically scrapped. Needless to say, almost no Dems and frankly many Republicans would never go for that(which I’d argue proves our point about not trusting these politicians in the first place).

As for Rubio’s 2016 prospects, I think the bill failing would actually be the best of both worlds for him. He’s given cover with Latino and liberal voters(and Univision) as he can say he led on the issue, but the support simply wasn’t there. And conservatives will forgive him since the thing ultimately didn’t pass and he did seem adamant about securing the border first.

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:01 PM

Add me to the list.

As a Perry and NEWT supporter in the primaries (with flaws on immigration and all) I oppose Rubio’s plan. Amnesty now, enforcement later.

Enforcement first. If we must give mercy, give it to college graduates and those who serve in our military.

El_Terrible on January 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM

I support Marco Rubio’s bill, partly because I am on Team Let It Burn.

BigGator5 on January 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Wow. I mean every one of those names is bantered about as a potential 2016 Republican candidate. Ooh careful treading here, Marco. All your believable possible contenders are releasing their positions even before the wind is blowing.

Marcus on January 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM

No amnesty, period. I want this free ride for illegals ended. No welfare, no medical, no schooling for their kids. These people have more rights than I do, more concern from the politicians and I was born here to citizens. I’ve had enough of this debate that nagging liberals haven’t yet let go. They had their chance to fix this mess in 1986 and they still haven’t. Now that it’s worse, don’t expect me to be more lenient or understanding.

Like with proposed gun bans, my answer to this scheme is a resounding ‘No!’

Liam on January 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM

Curiously silent on the Rubio plan: Rand Paul.

Even more curious because he probably supports it.

Rand is damn smart politically during all of this. That dude is going to be tough beat in the primary.

Nessuno on January 30, 2013 at 4:03 PM

All these guys are doing is setting Rubio up to be the hero on this.

rockmom on January 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM

I support Marco Rubio’s bill, partly because I am on Team Let It Burn.

BigGator5 on January 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM

I’m on Team Let It Burn, not Team Nuclear Armageddon. Let’s allow Obama to have his tax and spend binge, but let’s not reshape the electorate to the point where conservatives will never be in power again no matter how badly the Dems F up the country.

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM

I support Marco Rubio’s bill, partly because I am on Team Let It Burn.

BigGator5 on January 30, 2013 at 4:02 PM

We can let it burn without amnesty. Refuse to raise the debt ceiling. Temporary forest fire, but a new forest will grow in the future. Pass amnesty and the forest will not recover.

El_Terrible on January 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Totally apropos is my comment from the Santelli thread:
[The U.S. is] worse than Europe even. Because we are moving headlong toward an immigrant takeover. Via democracy. When they get enough clout it will be a slippery slope where the democratic process will open the floodgates to let in the compadres of the current illegals. The socialistic U. S. of Mexico, no kidding. And full reworking of the constitution, and redistribution of assets to the low income immigrants. The U.S. taken over from the inside. Oh, I forget, we are now supposed to be all for amnesty. Don’t do it. Make the problems of illegal immigration a big issue (Romney shirked that issue!!!!), and maybe we can win because the people are upset. Otherwise we lose.
And look now more at Obamacare: “Immigration Reform could boost cost of Obamacare by hundreds of millions.” And the costs of everything. Free education, and all, for the new immigrants who are coming to take over. Unless we take a stand. Wake up. Start talking about the problem of the illegals, and the majority will back us. Otherwise we just get snowed. Don’t do it.

anotherJoe on January 30, 2013 at 4:05 PM

Also this 11 million illegal number is bull crap. Hispanics voted in the last election at 10%. Yet the cencus said they are 17% of the population. That means about 7% of the population is illegal Hispanics. That is 22 million illegal hispanics. 7% of 320 million. This doesn’t even count the illegals of other races. Or that there might be a lot more who were afraid to answer the census because they were not here legally. It could be over 30 million. Think about that when you consider that only 12 million Hispanics voted in 2012.

KMav on January 30, 2013 at 4:05 PM

I agree with Ann here. Rubio is just another in a long line of RINOs vying for Presidency under the GOP banner.

Faramir on January 30, 2013 at 4:07 PM

Curiously silent on the Rubio plan: Rand Paul.

Even more curious because he probably supports it.

Rand is damn smart politically during all of this. That dude is going to be tough beat in the primary.

Nessuno on January 30, 2013 at 4:03 PM

You might be surprised by how many illegals there are in Kentucky now. Most of them are hardworking people doing jobs on farms. Much of the horse industry depends on them now. Those owners have a lot of money to back a candidate that helps them.

rockmom on January 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Hey Rubio, here’s an idea: Focus “like a laser” on JOB CREATION and getting citizens back to work. Obama is being allowed to skate on his willful destruction of our economy and the stupid GOP is worrying about pandering to the next bloc of people…

search4truth on January 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM

It seems Rubio is taking all of the heat for suggesting his ideas as there is no bill. Where are the others 7 and their ideas? What they and Rubio need to understand, this has nothing to do with what they are talking about.

It’s about votes for the Democrats, period. If Rubio is smart, he’d drop out of it altogether.

Enforce the existing laws, secure the border and when that is done, talk about it.

Gingrich is right by the way. This will be another Obamacare/Fiscal Cliff debacle. It will come to the floor with 3-5 minutes to vote and no one will have read the behind the doors bill.

Rubio should have no part of it, nor any Conservative.

bluefox on January 30, 2013 at 4:10 PM

Once again… WHY???? Why are we talking about immigration and gun control when this nation is over 16 TRILLION dollars in debt and NOTHING has been done to stop the hemorrhaging? It’s absolutely unbelievable to me that we apparently don’t have a journalist in the land to cry BS on this idiocy. There’s absolutely NO WAY that the House is going to pass Shamnesty 2.0 or legislate gun bans. So, not only do we have the usual Democrat suspects pointing and shouting “SQUIRREL!!!”… now we have GOP senators beating them to the punch.

This is ABSURD!!! Obama gets his tax increase on the so-called “rich” and all the sudden… hey, ‘problem solved’. That must be some other country’s massive frigging DEBT CLOCK ticking in the corner, right?

Honestly, what’s the point of continuing to try to get through to these morons? They’re apparently too stupid and tone-deaf to EVER get it. It just astounds me that we can’t find smarter people to send to Washington. Every time you think you find one… he turns out to be Marco Rubio in hot pursuit of acorn-caching rodentia.

Murf76 on January 30, 2013 at 4:12 PM

Beck calls for a third party. Will not give one dime to a Republican.

Mr. Arrogant on January 30, 2013 at 4:13 PM

Wow. This pushback reminds me of closing time at the bar, and everyone is bailing on Marco and leaving him stuck with the check.

It also seems to me like the Beltway Believers have felt the pushback from average American Conservatives, and are scrambling to keep their phony-baloney jobs. Hrumph.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:13 PM

Look at the bright side, if Rubio can’t carry amnesty on his back, nobody can.

El_Terrible on January 30, 2013 at 4:14 PM

If you think the GOP suffers from chronically poor messaging, as basically every conservative does, then take some comfort in the fact that this guy knows what he’s doing on that front even if you oppose his goal.

Just doing the talk show circuit is not messaging in my opinion. The heart of good messaging is a …. a good message i.e. sound policy not “I grew up around immigrants therefore everyone should listen to me.”

The talk radio audience, just like many here, can smell b.s. a mile away and I don’t think the listening audience was impressed with either Rush or Mark Levin and their Steve Croft moment with the ‘dashing young junior Senator with a pretty Cuban name.’

Vitter nailed him: NAIVE. I for one will remember that he actually thinks the Dems will enforce border security after amnesty is granted. Conservative, RINO, whatever – he’s naive and that should remove him from future leadership period.

LetsBfrank on January 30, 2013 at 4:14 PM

Curiously silent on the Rubio plan: Rand Paul.

Even more curious because he probably supports it.

Rand is damn smart politically during all of this. That dude is going to be tough beat in the primary.

Nessuno on January 30, 2013 at 4:03 PM

I hope so. Rand Paul is the only one I like. However, I am a disconcerted that he voted for John Kerry for Sec. of State.
I emailed his office for an explanation this am. Haven’t heard
back yet. If anyone knows the “why” I would appreciate your
posting on it.

Amjean on January 30, 2013 at 4:15 PM

Has he even bothered to wonder where the money is going to come from for all this generosity? Not only do we have the strain of the welfare system we already have, but now we’ll have to add Obamacare into the mix. That could add as much as another half trillion to what illegals are already costing us.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/immigration-reform-could-boost-cost-of-obamacare-by-hundreds-of-billions/article/2519990?utm_source=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Digest%20-%2001/30/2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Digest

Murf76 on January 30, 2013 at 4:15 PM

So much for jobs and the deficit.

Gun control, immigration reform = Big Distraction

JPeterman on January 30, 2013 at 4:15 PM

I don’t know, Rubio is “Hispanic” so his ideas on illegal immigrants carry more weight than those of non-Hispanics by virtue of his Hispanic hispanicness.

Bishop on January 30, 2013 at 4:16 PM

AP said:

James Antle makes a good point too in noting that none of Rubio’s would-be rivals for the nomination have attacked him on this yet.

Ted Cruz didn’t attack him on it, but did basically come out against it.

Jon0815 on January 30, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Has he even bothered to wonder where the money is going to come from for all this generosity? Not only do we have the strain of the welfare system we already have, but now we’ll have to add Obamacare into the mix. That could add as much as another half trillion to what illegals are already costing us.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/immigration-reform-could-boost-cost-of-obamacare-by-hundreds-of-billions/article/2519990?utm_source=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Digest%20-%2001/30/2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Digest</blockquote

Perhaps the illegals are costing us more by going to the hospital
emergency room for every little ailment.

Amjean on January 30, 2013 at 4:17 PM

I’ve been making the point about 2016 for weeks now. The field is basically going to agree with Rubio on this…. The field includes a Midwestern who works for Jack Kemp, the son of Indian immigrants who declared the Republican Party “stupid,” Ron Paul’s son, and a noted New Jersey moderate who is BFF’s with Obama. Which candidate pray tell will go to the right of Rubio on immigration? Bigger gamble for Rubio is that the bill doesn’t pass considering he has basically staked 2016 on this.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 4:17 PM

Bishop on January 30, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Si.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:17 PM

The ritual verbal tic that had to accompany any reference to Palin: “Now I’m not saying that Palin is a serious person or candidate…”

The ritual verbal tic that has to accompany references to the Newly Anointed:
“Now I love and respect Marco…”

ddrintn on January 30, 2013 at 4:18 PM

The ritual verbal tic that had to accompany any reference to Palin: “Now I’m not saying that Palin is a serious person or candidate…”

The ritual verbal tic that has to accompany references to the Newly Anointed:
“Now I love and respect Marco…”

ddrintn on January 30, 2013 at 4:18 PM

Ha. Good observation.

El_Terrible on January 30, 2013 at 4:19 PM

How about this instead Senator: All illegals willing to register themselves within six months after passage of the bill have a universal background check. If their country of origin doesn’t respond in three days, they get deported. If they come up clean, they can pay a $10,000 fine and get in the back of the line. No citizenship, only permanent residence which will only be processed after the fine is paid. Any unregistered illegals found after the six months never gets anything but deported….

ScottG on January 30, 2013 at 4:19 PM

ddrintn on January 30, 2013 at 4:18 PM

LOL!

Gots to be startin’ sumpin’, doncha? :)

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Once again… WHY???? Why are we talking about immigration and gun control when this nation is over 16 TRILLION dollars in debt and NOTHING has been done to stop the hemorrhaging?

Murf76 on January 30, 2013 at 4:12 PM

You answered your own question. You think Obama or any Democrat actually wants to talk about the economy, the debt, or jobs? Their only ideas are tax more and spend more. How receptive do you think a majority of Americans will be to that?

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:20 PM

If I hear one more Politician use the term “immigrants coming out of the shadows” I’m going to hurl.

portlandon on January 30, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Unless there’s a couple of years of concrete border security improvements first, Republicans are gonna get screwed on this. And since that’s never gonna happen…..Republicans are gonna get screwed on this. That’s not even addressing what to do with the illegals already in the country. This deal is already junk before we even get to that.

Still waiting for someone to ask Rubio why we can’t enforce immigration laws we already have. Maybe Rush asked him but I didn’t hear the interview.

Dongemaharu on January 30, 2013 at 4:21 PM

I like Beck’s plan. Third party NOW !!!

Mr. Arrogant on January 30, 2013 at 4:22 PM

portlandon on January 30, 2013 at 4:20 PM

LOL!They’re not “coming out of the shadows” they’re standing in from of Loew’s and Home Depot, waiting to be picked up and taken to their Daily Worksite. When they aren’t hassling drivers-by or shoppers.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM

“front.”

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM

“I agree with Ann here. Rubio is just another in a long line of RINOs vying for Presidency under the GOP banner.”

Oh Good Lord. SHE was the one propping up Christie for Christ sakes. As far as I’m concerned she lost any credibility to be a “RINO hunter”.

cdog0613 on January 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM

And of course, the promises of enforcement never materialize. The amnesty happens immediately — the millisecond the bill is signed into law, and the same is true here. No, they won’t be citizens immediately. They will be legal.”

I empathize with Vitter’s point, and this is the conundrum. The Democrats are liars. But how are we EVER going to get enforcement unless it’s a standalone bill? It will never get through the present Senate. Also, just how in the hell are we supposed to find out who — and just how many — the illegals are unless we provide some sort of weak sauce incentive for them to come out of hiding?

John the Libertarian on January 30, 2013 at 4:24 PM

I need a whole lot more than I’m hearing from Rubio before I get interested. Having McCain around kills it for me as it is.

We need Ted Cruz to take this one and do it right.

DanMan on January 30, 2013 at 4:24 PM

Is that insane or what? Rubio is to the LEFT of Ann Coulter! You know, Ann Coulter who supported Willard My-Views-Are-Progressive Mitt I-Like-Mandates Romney and was totally backing up Cris Obama-Is-Awesome Christie!
I think now is the time to ask who has listed Rubio as the next conservative star?
Come on guys, self identify if you jumped on the Rubio is the next conservative superstar! We would like to know.

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM

by virtue of his Hispanic hispanicness.

Bishop on January 30, 2013 at 4:16 PM

Oh noes he’s not, I heard the liberals say Marco is not down for teh cause, he’s only faking his birfth certificate he’s not naturalized he’s only pretending.

John the Libertarian on January 30, 2013 at 4:27 PM

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM

meh, I sent him a check in 2010 but he was in Florida and I’m in Texas. He’s got to be better than Charlie Crist though.

DanMan on January 30, 2013 at 4:28 PM

Come on guys, self identify if you jumped on the Rubio is the next conservative superstar! We would like to know.

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Me.

Thank goodness individuals can have differences on various issues and don’t have to past a Purity Test ™ or something.

John the Libertarian on January 30, 2013 at 4:29 PM

KMav on January 30, 2013 at 4:05 PM

The 11 million “estimate” is complete B.S. The government has been using this same “estimate” for the past decade. (BTW, according to U.S. Border Patrol, illegal border crossings increased last year by about 9% — but the border is more secure than ever! says Janet Napolitano).

In 1986, the official government “estimate” of how many illegals would be eligible to receive amnesty under the bill Reagan signed was 1.1 – 1.3 million. Over 3 million (or more than twice the official government “estimate”) ended up receiving amnesty under that law.

The federal government always significantly “underestimates” the number of illegal aliens living in the U.S., for obvious reasons. Also of note, the 1986 amnesty program was rife with fraud, which the government admitted,and which the government also admitted it was powerless to stop (and made little effort to stop). It will be the same this time — except with new and improved fraud, and on a much bigger scale. For example, millions of illegal aliens who’ve been working off the books for years, being paid in cash, are now going to file and pay their back taxes? LOL. We’ll just take their word for how many years they’ve worked here illegally, and how much income they made in those years, because there will be no way to prove it. But we know that all those illegals would never lie about their tax obligations . . . because they’re all so honest and law-abiding, right?

AZCoyote on January 30, 2013 at 4:30 PM

but more broadly it’s designed to move the Overton window on what positions are acceptable for a good conservative to hold.

Rubio has never been a good conservative. He’s always been a worm. He was just lucky to have been running against Orange Crisp.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:31 PM

“With the Washington establishment agreeing that what America needs right now is to double down on guest workers and amnesty for illegal aliens, it’s worthwhile to notice how a serious country such as Israel deals with past mistakes in immigration policy.
In America, we try not to learn from the past. “

Chessplayer on January 30, 2013 at 4:31 PM

Who’s Ann Coulter?

HondaV65 on January 30, 2013 at 4:32 PM

“I love and respect Marco.”

I hate and despise Marco.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:32 PM

self identify if you jumped on the Rubio is the next conservative superstar! We would like to know.

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Still like Rubio, still think he’s wrong on the issue.

El_Terrible on January 30, 2013 at 4:33 PM

You answered your own question. You think Obama or any Democrat actually wants to talk about the economy, the debt, or jobs? Their only ideas are tax more and spend more. How receptive do you think a majority of Americans will be to that?

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Exactly. And if I can see that, and you can see that, and anybody who would spend ten minutes thinking about it can see that… why the heck can a guy who had enough on the ball to get himself elected senator NOT see it???

What we need is a national campaign whereby every conservative American, who has actually paid attention to Obama’s modus operandi over the last four years, mails a printed copy of “Lucy and the Football” to Senator Marco Rubio, who… pun intended… needs to stop being a “rube”.

Murf76 on January 30, 2013 at 4:33 PM

You might be surprised by how many illegals there are in Kentucky now. Most of them are hardworking people doing jobs on farms. Much of the horse industry depends on them now. Those owners have a lot of money to back a candidate that helps them.

rockmom on January 30, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Yep, and the law enforcement industry in Lexington and other cities in Fayette County are doing really well with the catch and release program for all of these illegals getting DUI’s.. They’re all decked out in these awesome horse farm company jackets drunker than hell driving a stolen car w/o insurance and they get let out the next day. I’ve got friends at the jail and family who are attorneys and, by a large margin, they get much lighter punishment for the same crime as do native Lexingtonians.

preallocated on January 30, 2013 at 4:33 PM

There is a very simple solution to this problem. Pass a bill mandating e-verify and border enforcement and agree to revisit the issue in 5 years.
Of course no dem would agree to that.

hopeful on January 30, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Ann Coulter is hot.

Rusty Allen on January 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM

As a California native who has lived over 50 years in Southern California, I can say they are not in the shadows. They are receiving Cal Grants for college (financial aid) at the expense of citizens. They have taken over cities. They openly break laws and get away with it. I say push them back into the shadows.

Rose on January 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM

The Left will never, certainly not now in their state of strutting and near-total dominion over politics and the culture, accept any bill that didn’t advance their interests and power. The idea that Rubio thinks he can cobble together a coalition based on some kind of shared notion of what’s good for America is so howlingly laughable that one wonders if Rubio is actually a pod person recently consumed by some alien force.

Reagan was able to get some of what he wanted from the Left because he held his popularity over them like a invisible cudgel cloaked in charm and because those were ancient days when democrats still held vestigial notions of a common good and the importance of economic growth or of political self interest subject to external pressures outside their control. But as they see it, nothing is outside their control now. They control EVERYTHING. There is no pressure. We have no Reagan, or anybody who can wield substantial public influence. Whether or not the Left owns America completely yet, they think they do, and have good reason to think it. Why on earth would they compromise?

rrpjr on January 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM

I don’t know, Rubio is “Hispanic” so his ideas on illegal immigrants carry more weight than those of non-Hispanics by virtue of his Hispanic hispanicness.

Bishop on January 30, 2013 at 4:16 PM

I have a sudden urge for a Burrito…

ToddPA on January 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM

As for Rubio’s 2016 prospects, I think the bill failing would actually be the best of both worlds for him. He’s given cover with Latino and liberal voters(and Univision) as he can say he led on the issue, but the support simply wasn’t there. And conservatives will forgive him since the thing ultimately didn’t pass and he did seem adamant about securing the border first.

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:01 PM

No.. Actually, the bill not passing would really hurt him in 2016. Rubio is in desperate need of actual accomplishments, especially since Ryan, Jindal, Christie, etc. have pretty significant accomplishments to their names. I could tell you what Ryan’s platform will be (debt crisis combined with Kemp 2.0 poverty stuff), Christie’s “bi-partisan” governor(same as probably Jindal’s). Not sure what Rubio’s would be. I’m thinking that the immigration reform along with swiping some of Ryan’s ideas on fighting poverty might be a good rationale. Without the immigration reform package, then Rubio’s main qualifications are giving pretty speeches and being a minority and that only works when you’re a Democrat.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

I can see the D’s arguing over the “path” on some reasonable grounds, even if others disagree with the path or whether or not there should be a path. But, to suggest that D’s will bend on enforcement because it “can be eroded over time” makes no rational sense at all to me.

Are we suggesting that Democrats are in favor of illegal immigration? Is that how this shakes out? Are they willing to stand up and say so?

Bottom line, this is not immigration “reform” we’re talking about. It’s about illegal immigration. I’ve never heard a Republican oppose immigration. It’s ludicrous. Yet, when Schumer and others oppose enforcement of existing immigration statutes, they are, I suppose, saying they favor illegal immigration. Could we find a Republican who might be willing to make this point instead of continuously playing panicked defense?

IndieDogg on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Everything you have heard about either side of this issue is crap.

President Jugears spilled the beans in his Nevada campaign speech. His speechwriters probably didn’t think anybody would notice. But I noticed.

He said that we needed them to come in from the shadow economy. Yep, he said it — go to a mp3 of the speech and listen.

He wasn’t primarily talking about illegal aliens — he was talking about the John Galts among us. There are a lot more of them than even I suspected and they are screwing up the government’s numbers.

The smallest workforce since WW2 yet the indirect taxes from sales of gasoline and similar items are close to normal levels. But the key thing is the gun buyback programs. Every one of them has turned into a street corner gun show with gun buyers with suitcases full of cash buying guns from people standing in line to turn in their weapons for a gift card from the cops.

They are stunned that the economy isn’t crushed despite their efforts. The answer is — going Galt. They need the immigration bill to root out the ones they don’t care about (braceros and other little people). Then everybody who is left in the shadows is either a tea partier, libertarian, or a criminal.

They will use the comprehensive immigration law to cover them going hunting dropouts from the system.

That is why it’s urgent — the official economy (with its 16 trillion) is about to collapse because TOO MANY PEOPLE have dropped out. The death spiral is about to go full throttle and the commies know that the backlash will end up rooting out most of the traitors IF THEY DON’T FIND SOMEONE TO BLAME BEFOREHAND.

Lock and load. And stockpile. There is little time left. Rubio is a useful idiot to the traitors.

platypus on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

^ I’d like to add that unless the person has committed a felony deportation or long term incarceration never even enters the conversation. I doubt the local PD even has the phone # for INS/ICE. It’s brutal… These horse farms used to provide decent jobs for actual taxpaying citizens. Total bs if you ask me.

preallocated on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

I’m on Team Let It Burn, not Team Nuclear Armageddon. Let’s allow Obama to have his tax and spend binge, but let’s not reshape the electorate to the point where conservatives will never be in power again no matter how badly the Dems F up the country.

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM

Yup. Actually a critical component is E-Verify.
Let E-Verirfy be in place for 5 or more years before we even consider amnesty. Most would go home, and so we can then consider amnesty. Then, and only then.

Some say, oh, with E-VERIFY then (illegal) workers would flee. But unemployment is 9%. Non-illegals will pick up the slack. Please. Don’t mortgage our future to Mexico for temporary cheap labor. Before long we are going to be doing full out redistribution to this “cheap” labor, through Obamacare, Education, entitlements, and straight out asset theft via a Wealth Tax. And then it’s not cheap anymore, as our very property is up for the grabbing, for “the public good,” as was the rationale for confiscating property in East Germany.

anotherJoe on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Pass a bill mandating e-verify

I t is not employers’ responsibility to enforce feral law. In fact, this feral government allied with an invading nation to take Arizona to court to argue that the state, itself, was not allowed to enforce feral law.

and border enforcement and agree to revisit the issue in 5 years.

hopeful on January 30, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Border enforcement is pretty meaningless without interior enforcement, which is the thing that all these worms absolutely refuse to do (but claim they will …. “next time”). The whole charade of “closing the border” is just that. We have tens of millions of aliens come through the US legally on tourist visas and longer term permits. It is simple for millions of them to just decide to stay and to fill us up with more illegals any time and they don’t have to illegally crawl over any border. IT IS ALL ABOUT INTERIOR INFORCEMENT. Without that, the rest is just a sick joke.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Ann Coulter is hot.

Rusty Allen on January 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM

She’s got a sexy Adams Apple….

ToddPA on January 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Me.

Thank goodness individuals can have differences on various issues and don’t have to past a Purity Test ™ or something.

John the Libertarian on January 30, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Yep.. If you demand politicians agree with you 100%, then you end up losing.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 4:39 PM

meh, I sent him a check in 2010 but he was in Florida and I’m in Texas. He’s got to be better than Charlie Crist though.

DanMan on January 30, 2013 at 4:28 PM

I almost sent him a check…
I think he is a good enough guy on average. I just get a bit irritated with the cultists in our midst.
Far far far superior to charlie crist!

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:39 PM

If I hear one more Politician use the term “immigrants coming out of the shadows” I’m going to hurl.

portlandon on January 30, 2013 at 4:20 PM

Did you catch that clip of the recent CNN forum on immigration reform? The CNN guy asks the illegals in the audience to raise their hands, and they did (one person raised both hands — high).

Good demonstration of how very “fearful” illegals are of being discovered — they’re so terrified that they’re willing to go on t.v. and out themselves. And what reason would they have to be hiding “in the shadows” in the first place? Obama refuses to enforce immigration laws, and the only people his administration is deporting are violent felons. So unless an illegal alien is also a violent criminal, he or she has no reason to be “in the shadows.”

AZCoyote on January 30, 2013 at 4:41 PM

Come on guys, self identify if you jumped on the Rubio is the next conservative superstar! We would like to know.

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:26 PM

Me.

Thank goodness individuals can have differences on various issues and don’t have to past a Purity Test ™ or something.

John the Libertarian on January 30, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Apparently it is a good thing you can live with the mental deficiency you possess.
I talked about how he is not some superstar, not that he is impure and needs to be gotten rid of.
So, you see Rubio as some superstar awesome going to change America for the better politician?
Noted… Thanks for the self identify. It shows reasonably good character.

astonerii on January 30, 2013 at 4:41 PM

No.. Actually, the bill not passing would really hurt him in 2016. Rubio is in desperate need of actual accomplishments, especially since Ryan, Jindal, Christie, etc. have pretty significant accomplishments to their names. I could tell you what Ryan’s platform will be (debt crisis combined with Kemp 2.0 poverty stuff), Christie’s “bi-partisan” governor(same as probably Jindal’s). Not sure what Rubio’s would be. I’m thinking that the immigration reform along with swiping some of Ryan’s ideas on fighting poverty might be a good rationale. Without the immigration reform package, then Rubio’s main qualifications are giving pretty speeches and being a minority and that only works when you’re a Democrat.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

Well ok, no argument there. In fact that’s been my biggest problem with Rubio as the 2016 nominee. It’s our version of Obama. A one-term Senator who’s great on the stump who emerges from the primary only because of his ethnicity. Granted, Rubio is a conservative who loves America, so he’d be 1000 times better as President than Obama. But ideally, it would be nice to have a nominee with a genuine conservative record under his or her belt and not “just words, just speeches”.

Doughboy on January 30, 2013 at 4:42 PM

We were hit hard by ROMNEY’s election loss. We were dazed, stumbling around, thinking that we had no choice but to agree to everything the Dems want.
Not even. The problem with Romney was largely that he didn’t take a conspicuous stand on issues like immigration. We could have won on that issue. Instead we lost with stupid Romney. Remember the missing white vote?
But now we can take a stand on immigration. We can’t do it silently like Romney attempted to do. We have to get mad, and get vocal, and face down those that try to tar and feather us as racist for standing up for the law and for not giving our country away to Mexico. Because the majority is very upset about illegal immigration, and will support us. But we cannot continue to try to be silent and shirk the issue anymore. Get mad, get vocal, point out the costs and threat to our very society.
And whatever, insist on E-Verify, immediately.

anotherJoe on January 30, 2013 at 4:42 PM

The likely candidates don’t want to alienate Latino voters and the pundits with big audiences don’t want to kneecap a guy who might end up being the party’s best chance to regain the presidency.

AP – why do you, McCain, Rubio, et al, assume that opposing amnesty alienates “the Hispanic vote”??

54% of Hispanics favor amnesty


while 40% favor attrition through enforcement and oppose amnesty

Why do so many people denigrate the law-respecting Hispanics by assuming all Hispanics want to reward criminals with their ill-gotten goods (residency)?

The GOP is on a fool’s errand if they think they can out-pander the Democrats while chasing the votes of the 54% (and LOSE their base) instead of appealing to the 40% (and KEEP their base).

fred5678 on January 30, 2013 at 4:43 PM

Thank goodness individuals can have differences on various issues and don’t have to past a Purity Test ™ or something.

John the Libertarian on January 30, 2013 at 4:29 PM

Yeah … the concept of sovereignty is so passe. Only the fanatical conservatives buy all that cr@p about nation-states and citizenship and stuff.

You know, if Crybaby Boner posted here I think his comments would be a lot like yours.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:44 PM

I hate and despise Marco.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:32 PM

We know, bro, we know.

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 4:44 PM

She’s got a sexy Adams Apple….

ToddPA on January 30, 2013 at 4:37 PM

Considering how easily she morphed into a RINO, I wonder. Has anybody ever seen a high school picture of “her”.

KMav on January 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM

We know, bro, we know.

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 4:44 PM

Just making sure :)

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 30, 2013 at 4:48 PM

If you think the GOP suffers from chronically poor messaging, as basically every conservative does, then take some comfort in the fact that this guy knows what he’s doing on that front even if you oppose his goal.

If only he was working on behalf of the right cause, like debt/spending reduction. Shame he’s blowing up his credibility with the base on this issue.

Not that I’m too sad, as my dream candidate for 2016 is Mike Pence.

It does appear overall that opinion is beginning to coalesce against this mess, much to my surprise. I suspect that the repeated hammering of “we will be creating 11 million (and likely 30 million) new Democrat voters” message may finally beginning to cause the light bulbs to finally turn on in some segments of the GOP.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 4:49 PM

Does this mean NR and Ann Coulter stop getting heckled with cries of “RINO”?

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 3:59 PM

Oh Good Lord. SHE was the one propping up Christie for Christ sakes. As far as I’m concerned she lost any credibility to be a “RINO hunter”.

cdog0613 on January 30, 2013 at 4:23 PM

Considering how easily she morphed into a RINO, I wonder. Has anybody ever seen a high school picture of “her”.

KMav on January 30, 2013 at 4:45 PM

Well, that didn’t take long.

thebrokenrattle on January 30, 2013 at 4:49 PM

Beck calls for a third party. Will not give one dime to a Republican.

Mr. Arrogant on January 30, 2013 at 4:13 PM

I concur…not.another.red.cent.

NY Conservative on January 30, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Wait, whats Coulter whining about? Wasnt she in love with christie then romney?

Well ok, no argument there. In fact that’s been my biggest problem with Rubio as the 2016 nominee. It’s our version of Obama.

You dont want a conservative Obama? I dont know what to say to that. But the biggest challenger to Rubio in 2016 primaries is Christie and I dont see him gaining much after NH. But it’s a long time from now.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:50 PM

This whole discussion might all be moot. If Obama doesn’t get everything he wants, I imagine he’ll nix any deal made in Congress.

Liam on January 30, 2013 at 4:50 PM

Not even. The problem with Romney was largely that he didn’t take a conspicuous stand on issues like immigration. We could have won on that issue. Instead we lost with stupid Romney. Remember the missing white vote?

Immigration is a net loser for Republicans. It makes them look like angry white men. The issue for future elections is that the Republican party has run out of Caucasian Americans to court. Obama won less than 40% of the white vote in 2012 and lost independents by 5% and he still won by about 4%. If the Republican Party wants to remain politically viable, then they better find some way to court the Latino and Asian communities.

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 4:51 PM

Can we please have a grown-up for our next President/crop of Pres. candidates?

Didn’t this woefully ignorant population already swoon for one eager beaver with minority appeal punching a Senate ticket on the way to bigger and better things.

If you object to the “ignorant” bit, please explain what else to call a population about 50% of whom can’t identify how many US Senators their state has, what the general condition of the economy or US fiscal health is (just within a galaxy or so of approximation), and who thinks that Obama is a nice guy and gifted speaker instead of a racially divisive, clinically narcissistic, adolescent with an impoverished knowledge and skills base.

livetsown on January 30, 2013 at 4:52 PM

No.. Actually, the bill not passing would really hurt him in 2016. Rubio is in desperate need of actual accomplishments, especially since Ryan, Jindal, Christie, etc. have pretty significant accomplishments to their names.

No he doesnt need anything to pass. Apparently you havent learned anything about elections in the past decade. Nobody cares about “accomplishments”. Ryan cant carry Wisconsin and Christie is a blowhard.

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:53 PM

Illinidiva on January 30, 2013 at 4:51 PM

If Republicans want to be election, they first need to win back the Conservative Base.

Period.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:53 PM

If Republicans want to be election, they first need to win back the Conservative Base.

Period.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 4:53 PM

Well since Romney got the idiots here singing his praises, that wont be too hard. “Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly.”

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:58 PM

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:58 PM

Yep. And, any of us that had questions concerning nominating the Godfather of Obamacafre, got called everything but a child of God.

kingsjester on January 30, 2013 at 5:00 PM

Well since Romney got the idiots here singing his praises, that wont be too hard. “Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly.”

Flapjackmaka on January 30, 2013 at 4:58 PM

Romney never had the base. The primary turnout was depressed and a chunk of the base appears to have sat at home, despite a lot of noisemaking on this site about how he was the “next Reagan.” Rather than moving to the left to try to court Democrats, the GOP is going to have to reconnect with its base or face total dissolution as a party as more and more of them stay at home. Winning independents in 2012 was not good enough for the GOP to cover losing the base.

Conservatives have threatened to stay at home for a long time, but 2012 appears to be the first election where they really made good on that threat.

Doomberg on January 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM

James Antle makes a good point too in noting that none of Rubio’s would-be rivals for the nomination have attacked him on this yet.

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) are bumping elbows as both work to establish leadership roles on immigration and education reform while weighing 2016 presidential bids.

Bush on Friday appeared to criticize Rubio’s strategy for overhauling the nation’s immigration laws through a series of small bills instead of a comprehensive package as “shortsighted and self-defeating,” although he did not name Rubio.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/279475-hints-of-rivalry-surface-as-rubio-and-bush-weigh-2016-bids

bluefox on January 30, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Why isn’t the GOP pushing an “English First” platform? Our common language is what unites us as Americans. Really pissed me off when Rubio holds a press conference on “immigration reform” in Spanish.

monalisa on January 30, 2013 at 5:03 PM

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