Immigration proposal: border security, visa overhaul, then normalization

posted at 8:01 am on January 28, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

A bipartisan group of Senators have already released the conceptual structure of an immigration reform compromise, if not the legislative language.  This is getting plenty of press today, and it will probably take most of the attention in politics this week for both its own substance and how it plays in both parties and among voters.  The compromise provides normalization for most of the illegal immigrants in the US, but puts certification of border security and a visa-program overhaul first — as well as all of those applying legally for immigration as of the bill’s passage:

Four Basic Legislative Pillars:

1. Create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States that is contingent upon securing our borders and tracking whether legal immigrants have left the country when required;

2. Reform our legal immigration system to better recognize the importance of characteristics that will help build the American economy and strengthen American families;

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

4. Establish an improved process for admitting future workers to serve our nation’s workforce needs, while simultaneously protecting all workers.

Since Pillar One will generate the most controversy, especially among conservatives, let’s take a look at the specifics.  The pledge includes a number of specific promises about adding resources to border security — long overdue, and held up by insistence on inclusion in a comprehensive bill.  The specifics of a path to citizenship come later in the section:

- Our legislation will require the completion of an entry-exit system that tracks whether all persons entering the United States on temporary visas via airports and seaports have left the country as required by law.

That should be one of the key components.  The broken visa system, along with lax security at the border, were both cited by the 9/11 Commission in its report of dangerous gaps in American security — and that was in 2005.  Almost eight years later, we’re just now getting around to addressing both.

- We recognize that Americans living along the Southwest border are key to recognizing and understanding when the border is truly secure. Our legislation will create a commission comprised of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and to make a recommendation regarding when the bill’s security measures outlined in the legislation are completed.

This improves on earlier proposals that gave the certification duty to the federal government.  It also provides border hawks in those states a very good argument for winning those gubernatorial and AG elections that will ensure that certification isn’t just a rubber stamp for DHS and the White House.

- While these security measures are being put into place, we will simultaneously require those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government. This will include passing a background check and settling their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes, in order to earn probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States. Individuals with a serious criminal background or others who pose a threat to our national security will be ineligible for legal status and subject to deportation. Illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes face immediate deportation.

- We will demonstrate our commitment to securing our borders and combating visa overstays by requiring our proposed enforcement measures be complete before any immigrant on probationary status can earn a green card.

- Current restrictions preventing non-immigrants from accessing federal public benefits will also apply to lawful probationary immigrants.

This is another concession to conservatives, who have argued that an “amnesty” program would explode entitlement spending.

- Once the enforcement measures have been completed, individuals with probationary legal status will be required to go to the back of the line of prospective immigrants, pass an additional background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment, among other requirements, in order to earn the opportunity to apply for lawful permanent residency. Those individuals who successfully complete these requirements can eventually earn a green card.

I assume those who don’t meet those prerequisites will get deported, but we will have to see what the legislative language says to know for sure.

- Individuals who are present without lawful status – not including people within the two categories identified below – will only receive a green card after every individual who is already waiting in line for a green card, at the time this legislation is enacted, has received their green card. Our purpose is to ensure that no one who has violated America’s immigration laws will receive preferential treatment as they relate to those individuals who have complied with the law.

This is another concession to conservatives, and really to reality.  It’s the only way to incentivize legal immigration in the future, as opposed to sneaking in and hoping for the best.

- Our legislation also recognizes that the circumstances and the conduct of people without lawful status are not the same, and cannot be addressed identically.

For instance, individuals who entered the United States as minor children did not knowingly choose to violate any immigration laws. Consequently, under our proposal these individuals will not face the same requirements as other individuals in order to earn a path to citizenship.

Similarly, individuals who have been working without legal status in the United States agricultural industry have been performing very important and difficult work to maintain America’s food supply while earning subsistence wages. Due to the utmost importance in our nation maintaining the safety of its food supply, agricultural workers who commit to the long term stability of our nation’s agricultural industries will be treated differently than the rest of the undocumented population because of the role they play in ensuring that Americans have safe and secure agricultural products to sell and consume. These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

Assuming that the border and visa problems are finally resolved, this makes sense as a compromise between the two factions of the immigration issue.  The idea that 11 million people are going to “self-deport” is fantasy, and unless we want to have a permanent underclass of people who are never properly vetted and then integrated, we will have to find a path to normalization.  The Wall Street Journal cautiously agrees:

Tricky issues have yet to be resolved, including how to assess whether the border-security benchmarks have been met, how to alleviate the backlog of people waiting for legal visas and how many people would be admitted under the new temporary-worker program. …

But many in Congress, particularly Republicans, worry that after legislation is passed, there will be a fresh wave of illegal crossings as the economy rebounds. To combat that, the framework proposes increased technology, infrastructure and personnel, including more unmanned aerial vehicles, to apprehend unauthorized entrants. It calls for stronger prohibitions against racial profiling and more training of border patrol agents. …

A Rubio aide said Mr. Rubio would like to see ‘operational control of the border,’ a standard some advocates fear would be both hard to define and never be met. … Once the enforcement measures are complete, people with probationary status could earn permanent legal residence, which can lead to citizenship, if they pay taxes, learn English and meet other requirements. They wouldn’t be able to earn a green card until all those waiting on the day the legislation is passed get theirs. That meets a GOP demand that people who came to the U.S. illegally don’t earn special treatment.

As far as the politics of Rubio’s intervention in this issue goes, a source on Capitol Hill writes to me that it put “a conservative in the room making sure our principles will be in whatever gets passed — they can’t cut their own deal.”  Obama was going to press forward on immigration reform in the Senate for sure, and probably hoped to further damage the GOP with Latinos, especially if House Republicans had to balk at an all-Democrat (or all-Democrat plus John McCain) deal.  Rubio’s influence on the package in insisting on a real border-first approach and a process that doesn’t allow normalization to occur ahead of existing applications for immigration “gets our principles out in front of the President” and stops Obama from “outflanking” Republicans on immigration.

This is an improvement over the 2006-7 proposals that ended up going nowhere.  It’s hardly perfect, but in a government with split control for at least the next two years (four, from the GOP’s perspective), it’s a good compromise to get us past this issue and finally start addressing border security to the satisfaction of the states involved, rather than the federal government.


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The only hope of having any chance to defeat or weaken this travesty is to make your outrage known, especially those in red states with Dem senators up for re-election.

From NumbersUSA this morning.
AMNESTY ALERT: Call your Three Members of Congress and tell them ‘NO to Amnesty’
Monday, January 28, 2013, 8:59 AM EST

A Senate ‘Gang of Eight’ that includes Republicans Marco Rubio, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Jeff Flake and Democrats Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin, Bob Menendez, and Michael Bennet have reportedly come to an agreement on a comprehensive immigration reform package that would include an amnesty for the nation’s 11 million illegal aliens. An agreement between Reps. Mario Diaz-Balart (R-Fla.) and Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.) is also being finalized in the House. CALL YOUR THREE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AT (202) 224-3121 AND TELL THEM “NO AMNESTY.”

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Evidently Rubio plans on remaining a Senator and not running for President.

huckleberryfriend on January 28, 2013 at 10:38 AM

What is “normalization”? Maintain a porous border and then in 10 years time give them amnesty?

ButterflyDragon on January 28, 2013 at 10:41 AM

What is “normalization”? Maintain a porous border and then in 10 years time give them amnesty?

ButterflyDragon on January 28, 2013 at 10:41 AM

I didn’t know you were a staffer for McCain. I hope you don’t get in any trouble for revealing that.

DFCtomm on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

I told you so…. :/

Genuine on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

While these security measures are being put into place, we will simultaneously require those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government. This will include passing a background check and settling their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes, in order to earn probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States.

Game over, this is de facto legal status. Meanwhile, the people doing it legally are still in their native countries…waiting. And as has been said, once this happens, the pressure to get them benefits and DREAM Act goodies will be impossible to stop.

jnelchef on January 28, 2013 at 10:48 AM

Do they get rewards cards ?

Bmore on January 28, 2013 at 10:55 AM

From the Shining city on the Hill, to just another Democratic Socialist country…acoomplished in one generation.

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM

I]f this “commission” doesn’t ever decide the border is secure, couldn’t that result in 11 million people being stranded in second-class legal limbo?

That’s a legitimate worry, according to Frank Sharry, the executive director of America’s Voice, a group advocating for immigration reform. But he tells me that on a conference call yesterday, Democratic Senators reassured immigration advocates that this commission won’t be constructed in a way that will hold up the process for too long.

As Sharry put it, Democrats realize that they can’t “allow the commission to have a real veto” over setting in motion the path to citizenship. He noted that Dems see the commission as “something that gives the Republicans a talking point” to claim they are prioritizing tough enforcement, giving themselves cover to back a process that “won’t stop people from getting citizenship.” However, Sharry added: “The details of this are going to matter hugely, and we’ll have to fight like hell on the individual provisions.”

That said, Sharry concluded: “This is a left of center framework.”

This is from the companion post by AP that just went up a few minutes ago; note the “Democratic Senators ressured…” Any doubts now that it’s just a game of meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

EastofEden on January 28, 2013 at 11:00 AM

1. Create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States

No.

that is contingent upon securing our borders and tracking whether legal immigrants have left the country when required;

LOL. You can’t secure “visa overstays” without doing serious interior enforcement – which is exactly what these turds refuse to do. “Border security” is a ruse.

2. Reform our legal immigration system to better recognize the importance of characteristics that will help build the American economy and strengthen American families;

Sure, but that would immediately lead to refusing pretty much all of the people that these turds want to treasonously give legal residency and American citizenship to in this retarded, criminal proposal.

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

No. It is not the job of employers to enforce federal law. Heck, Barky and his traitorous administration allied with a foreign invader to sue Arizona to stop the STATE from enforcing federal law. And now these schmucks want to put the onus for enforcement on private businesses?

Get bent, azzwipes.

4. Establish an improved process for admitting future workers to serve our nation’s workforce needs, while simultaneously protecting all workers.

This has nothing to do with the illegals that these traitors are trying to help invade America.

To everyone who signed off on this criminal idea, FOAD. Painfully. You are lowlifes.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 28, 2013 at 11:02 AM

Build a fence. Defend it. Then give me the fancy language.

Anything else falls short.

BTW I would like an amnesty for all of us who stop paying our taxes, because of the joke of a government that never ceases to devalue our currency, erode our savings, and disenfranchise our votes.

Stepan on January 28, 2013 at 11:07 AM

It’s not coincidental that Rubio also supports the proposal for women in combat. He accepts half a loaf as a starting point and is hoping to salvage half of that.

You could say these are two more instance where the country has lived behind its means – depending on illegal labor to support its lifestyle and on armed females to extend its global reach. When all is said and done, the Republican Party won’t rain hard on that parade.

Seth Halpern on January 28, 2013 at 11:11 AM

The message I sense is that Illegals must vote by 2014-16, in order to neuter that old constitution thingy.

Freedom purchased by tainted gifts from an authoritarian government is hardly freedom.

Don L on January 28, 2013 at 11:13 AM

And last, the definition of serious crimes and just how much they are going to find out about people who use multiple names and fake ids. Are DUIs going to be a disqualifier?

Cindy Munford

Let me make it easy for you…short of murder, there will be no disqualifying crimes. And apparently, if the murderer is a grandmother, even that won’t be a disqualifier. Make no mistake, they have no intention whatsoever of vetting 12 million 30 million illegals. In their own words, they can’t.

It’s not about personalities or proclivities; it’s about solving a problem.

Marcus Traianus

The absolute last thing it’s about is solving a problem.

This process identifies those people who now have been successfully hiding in the shadows.

Except for the ones who don’t come out of the shadows, of which there will be many. Per amnesty shill logic, that means this solution is a fantasy because all 12 million 30 million won’t come out of the shadows.

It would also lead to faster deportation for people who don’t qualify, thereby lifting the burden from our society.

Sure it will…just like it did after the other 8-9 amnesties we’ve had since Reagan was president. You people crack me up… we can’t deport people now because it makes us appear insensitive and uncaring, but if we just pass one more amnesty, THEN we’ll be able to deport people who shouldn’t be here. Wake up…not deporting people is the entire point.

xblade on January 28, 2013 at 11:14 AM

Closing the border is a dealbreaker for me but I don’t believe for one bit they will do it just like they promised in 1986 to do it. They seem too vague in seriously enforcing border control just as they were back then and so once we give these current illegals — citizenship then in about 20 something years we will be back in providing amnesty to a whole new set of illegals

journeymike on January 28, 2013 at 11:15 AM

I called my R rep and they said as of this morning, they’ve been flooded with calls against it. He said every single call has been adamant against any amnesty. Cruz’s office was non-committal which worries me. He caves and he will have backstabbed every conservative and grassroots activist that helped him beat Dewhurst.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Bailouts

Obamacare

Gun Confiscation

Illegal alien amnesty

It is clear that our rulers no longer have consent of the governed. Let’s get to the end game already.

voiceofreason on January 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM

voiceofreason on January 28, 2013 at 11:16 AM

Patience grasshopper. I’m actually settling into the idea of it. It’ll be like living in my own 80s nuclear apocalypse movie. special Tom beyond lightning hemisphere.

DFCtomm on January 28, 2013 at 11:28 AM

It calls for stronger prohibitions against racial profiling and more training of border patrol agents. …

Seriously? Let’s see, we have a border with Mexico, soooo, I better look for black Japanese immigrants ’cause I don’t want to offend the poor Mexicans coming over the Mexican border. Sheesh.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 11:32 AM

Cruz’s office was non-committal which worries me. He caves and he will have backstabbed every conservative and grassroots activist that helped him beat Dewhurst.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Yikes! That’s bad news.

sauldalinsky on January 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM

I guess we can look forward to more stories like this:

San Antonio boy killed by drunk illegal alien.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:39 AM

1. This “you can not send 11 of the illegals home is pure bull shit by pure bull shitters aks liberals and RINO’s.

2. Two Party Evil Money Cult in Washington D.C..

3. We here in Texas are calling Ted Cruz and putting him on notice.

4. We here in Texas have John “RINO” Cornyn on our list of the next un-elected one from Texas.

5. Fight now for your Constitution, your liberty, your jobs, your income level, your very lives or you will be out numbered and out gunned, out voted and you will meet these others at your front door and you will fight that last fight by some decendent of yours and it will be more of an execution than a fight.
They come at dawn and your decendant will be out working, searching for food and the women and children will be alone and without arms when these others do come.

6. We, the Americans have become the New Apache and they come for our gold, our land, our freedom and as prior some of our own tribes act as scouts for the others and they lead the evil ones to the back doors and let them in for the 30 coins Judas payment.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 28, 2013 at 11:42 AM

I contacted Al Franken’s office.

I don’t think we can count on his support.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM

I couldn’t read even read any of the four pillars in full without turning away in disgust. This isn’t being faithful to the public or the country and is nothing more than a marketing ploy as fraudulent and corrupt as they can come.

Dusty on January 28, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM

I bet it was still worth the call.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 11:53 AM

I contacted Al Franken’s office.

I don’t think we can count on his support.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM

You never know when that call can make a difference. He’s up for re-election and he hasn’t committed to voting for the gun ban (or least I think that’s what I read).

This fight is personal for me, so thanks for doing what you can.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:54 AM

Please answer a question I have – Are illegals eligible for
welfare?

I would like to know how they stay here making $10.00/hr. as a
bus person, lawn mower, agricultural worker, etc. Many of them
have group housing, if you will. Perhaps they just pool resources
together.

Are employers checking social security numbers yet to determine if
they are illegal when an illegal applies for a job?

A little story from this past weekend. I live in a multi cultural
middle class community where homes cost between $300,00 and over
a million. Great schools, park district, very little crime, etc.

I drove 12 miles to a soccer game at an indoor facility not located in a hispanic home area but in an ndustrial/rural area. Kids on the left rink; adults playing on the rink to the right.

The adults were all hispanic; wives/girlfriends with children all
over the place. Not one word of english was spoken. I saw two
men with teardrops tatooed under one eye. I was told this indicated a gang member. Sheriff’s police cars were parked outside
the door as we drove up. Nothing happened on the kids side; kids
that were white, hispanic, black, indian, etc. Nothing happened
on the other side either that I was aware of, however, what the
heck? Needless to say, another location will be scounted for future games.

Amjean on January 28, 2013 at 12:06 PM

I’d call my CT reps and senators but…they’d just laugh and send my phone number to their boss in the White House for future re-programming.

Don L on January 28, 2013 at 12:06 PM

Just like they told Reagan: “Sign this one bill and we will secure the borders.” Yep.

Mr. Grump on January 28, 2013 at 12:08 PM

’cause I don’t want to offend the poor Mexicans coming over the Mexican border. Sheesh.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 11:32 AM

To be perfectly fair, there’s plenty of Guatamalens and Hondurans and … coming across that Mexican border, too. And they’re waaaay different, don’t you know…..

GWB on January 28, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Article V shut it down, the democrats are at WAR with the American people and illegal immigrants are their reinforcements.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:21 AM

Why do you keep saying “Article V shut it down”? Do you really think the amendment process is going to move quickly enough to abort, er, terminate the U.S.?

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:13 PM

I guess we can look forward to more stories like this:

San Antonio boy killed by drunk illegal alien.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:39 AM

And when that happens in Illinoistan, I hope someone sues the state for “approving” the dumb-a$$ driver.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:16 PM

“This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal aliens. We will secure the borders henceforth. We will never again bring forward another amnesty bill like this.”

Sen. Ted Kennedy – 1986

The broken record that was playing then and is playing now.

RedRobin145 on January 28, 2013 at 12:17 PM

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

Really. We want a system wherein the government can decide who is authorized to work?

Considering the fact that for the very first time we’ve had a President contemptuous of both the Constitution and statutes defining the scope of his powers, not just elected but re-elected, I don’t think Big Brother should have this power.

And certainly now is not the time to be giving the strengthening the powers of the Federal government in the use and abuse of national registries, especially when such national registries only contain the names of people otherwise law-abiding while those who aren’t in the registry will still be able to live and work here.

And really, what does this bill do to solve the real problem of illegal immigration? As I see it the real problem is this:

These people came here to make a better life for themselves. They love America, too, and they contribute to our greatness as have all who have come before. We are a nation of immigrants. They do the jobs Americans won’t do. We can’t just deport them. Some of them are Americans themselves, born here and having the all the rights we ourselves claim … yada, yada, yada.

If we couldn’t answer that problem now, no amount of word stuffing of Pillars with ‘tough’ ‘fair’, ‘securing’, ‘tracking’, ‘reform’, ‘better’, ‘help’, ‘strengthen’, ‘families’, ‘effective’, ‘prevent’ ‘end’, ‘establish’, ‘improved’, ‘serve’, and ‘protecting’ will give us any more of a spine in 10 or 15 years to do it.

Dusty on January 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM

Ed’s always been a lib. Read his stuff from years back, there’s the proof.

air_up_there on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

Heh … yeah I really like all his posts in favor of PRO-CHOICE … or that time he endorsed Barack Obama … or …

You guys are cute … just because a guy disagrees with you one topic you pronounce him Lucifer incarnate!!

LMFAO

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:55 AM

You get 3 brownie points from Ed, Honda. Come on, tell us, what did Ed have for breakfast. Hahahaha!

air_up_there on January 28, 2013 at 12:21 PM

If you can’t round up 11 mil illegals and deport them, how was Ike able to deport 1.3 mil in just a few months 60 years ago with only 750 agents?

Given their history of lawlessness,document fraud, tax evasion, defiance of deportation orders ect. Why are we to believe that illegals will now obey the law by paying fines and back taxes?

What about those illegals who’ve committed a felony by reentering the country after deportation. How about the ones who have not registered with selective service.Its my understanding that those who have reentered the country after being deported are subject to imprisonment and those who failed to register with selected service can never be citizens.Will the laws of the land be enforced or will they be ignored for this lawless class.

Since the promise of border security was never kept during the last amnesty why should we believe this time will be different?

This can be stopped in the house so if it passes I’m done with the GOP and will be voting third party from now on.

Hera on January 28, 2013 at 12:23 PM

The fact is, a real fact, we cannot physically remove 11 million or 20 million illegals from our country, it just isn’t feasible.

right2bright on January 28, 2013 at 9:23 AM

Sure we can. Just ask all the shiny new Mooslums in our country to take up their old/existing slave-trading ways again.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:25 PM

You guys are cute … just because a guy disagrees with you one topic you pronounce him Lucifer incarnate!!

LMFAO

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:55 AM

Wait, you mean Ed is now a telescope? http://tinyurl.com/a5rukjs

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:27 PM

These people came here to make a better life for themselves. They love America, too,

Oh, so that’s why they refuse to speak English, hang the Mexican flag out their windows, and celebrate the made-up holiday of Cinco de Mayo?

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:29 PM

I really hate when I’m the only one left posting on a thread. Stupid time zone difference.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:29 PM

and viola, problem solved.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 10:04 AM

Normally it’s violins, but since this is a bigger problem…… ;)

You should stick with the emotional arguments. You’re math is pathetic.

DFCtomm on January 28, 2013 at 10:07 AM

His emotional arguments ain’t no great shakes, neither.

In fact, it was done back in 1954.

Operation Wetback was a 1954 operation by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service…

sentinelrules on January 28, 2013 at 10:09 AM

You know, I bet just starting up an operation and calling it that would be a great way to find a good chunk of the illegal immigrant population. They’ll all march in the streets to protest it! Just round ‘em all up at the end of the parade!

you win left it is yours, I will break it up if able and partner with hard working, Freedom loving people of any stripe to escape your Marxist tyranny.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 10:27 AM

I won’t give them the satisfaction of saying they have won the whole thing. I insist on finding those good people with which to partner and build a smaller freedom-loving republic.

GWB on January 28, 2013 at 12:38 PM

Yet again nary a word in their proposal about addressing illegal immigrant identity theft. At least require them to divulge the SSN they’ve used for employment/credit/medical care so the victims can be informed and begin to fix the damage!

Nope, instead victims clean the mess and bear the consequences.

batter on January 28, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Why do you keep saying “Article V shut it down”? Do you really think the amendment process is going to move quickly enough to abort, er, terminate the U.S.?

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Article V is not a simple “amend it” Article V is a Constitutional Convention with the power to legally break this nation up and it should be.

They will not stop until they can dictate your life’s path and they are not fans of our past.

The United States government once it is totally focused on individual liberty will be its biggest enemy ever.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 12:46 PM

Article V is not a simple “amend it” Article V is a Constitutional Convention with the power to legally break this nation up and it should be.

They will not stop until they can dictate your life’s path and they are not fans of our past.

The United States government once it is totally focused on individual liberty will be its biggest enemy ever.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 12:46 PM

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.blockquote>

Maybe you’re reading the La Raza version of the Constitution? I don’t see any method for dissolving the country.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 12:51 PM

“The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. ”

Thirty eight (38) is the number of legislatures from the several States that is necessary to ratify and thus amend the U.S. Constitution after such a convention. This amendment could be “to dissolve”. By “dissolve” I mean the whole compact between the several States. Yes, the entire Federal Government and every thing it has or was created under it’s jurisdiction. This would include but is not limited too, the Federal Debt, the Federal Reserve Bank, the FDIC, the Department of Education, the Department of Homeland Security, the Army, the Navy, the Air Force, the Marines, etc. etc… Think of it as a Constitutional self destruct mechanism.

This would leave the fifty (50) several States and the numerous Federal Territories, sovereign and under their own rightful and direct jurisdiction. Of course each State or Territory would then be free to individually or in groups engage in new compacts and trade arrangements. That is up to them to decide at a further date.

There are 30 states ran by Republican Governors, and I am pretty sure if we make the case to La Raza we agree with them we can get New Mexico, and Nevada on board.

I have no desire to be stuck in an ever widening suicide pact with california and New York and an illegal immigration Flipped Texas using a rocket sled to oblivion.

Liberals spent the last 40 years decrying the evil of government power.

Put up or shut up.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 12:58 PM

I agree with the sentiment, but I really don’t see how any attempt to break up the union gets past this: “and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate”.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 1:03 PM

I agree with the sentiment, but I really don’t see how any attempt to break up the union gets past this: “and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate”.

Nutstuyu on January 28, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Sweeten the pot and offer to buy our way out on a timeline WRT national debt.

Blue states love acting like the Red states are a tax Burden….

great put up or shut up.

An unfettered Red America with a sane EPA ecological watchdog would bury the blue states economically within 20 years.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 1:14 PM

Do not get side tracked by things that do not matter ie distractions.

The fight is in the U.S. House.

The U.S. Senate is a hopeless mess of commies and go along RINO’s like Graham and McLame.
So,

The House

http://www.alipac.us/
Has up a list of the possible Republicans who might vote for an amnesty or some such fraud. (Sorry to say all Obama has to do is use the crap little boy Bush tried to pass and what we over came prior. In fact most likely little boy Bush will come out of hideing under his bed in Texas to support commie Obama on this.

Any how a sad thing is that Pete Sessions is on the possible list now. He has power in the House and we Texans need to get after him, for sure people in his Dist.

Call them all

Fight.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 28, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Similarly, individuals who have been working without legal status in the United States agricultural industry have been performing very important and difficult work to maintain America’s food supply while earning subsistence wages. Due to the utmost importance in our nation maintaining the safety of its food supply, agricultural workers who commit to the long term stability of our nation’s agricultural industries will be treated differently than the rest of the undocumented population because of the role they play in ensuring that Americans have safe and secure agricultural products to sell and consume. These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

I’m a farmer’s wife. This is B.S. Farmers who break the law should be penalized just like any other employer who does.

cptacek on January 28, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Suicide.

El_Terrible on January 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM

I guess we can look forward to more stories like this:

San Antonio boy killed by drunk illegal alien.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Geez.. Because immigrants are totally more likely to commit crimes like drunk driving than regular citizens… eyes roll. A huge part of the Rubio principles is that people who commit crimes don’t get work permits. I’m assuming that if you commit a crime while on probation then you also lose your work permit and will be deported.

Illinidiva on January 28, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Geez.. Because immigrants are totally more likely to commit crimes like drunk driving than regular citizens… eyes roll. A huge part of the Rubio principles is that people who commit crimes don’t get work permits. I’m assuming that if you commit a crime while on probation then you also lose your work permit and will be deported.

Jeepers!

If people weren’t here illegally, then they wouldn’t be able to commit crimes, including the one that enabled them to commit the second one.

Stepan on January 28, 2013 at 2:23 PM

A huge part of the Rubio principles is that people who commit crimes don’t get work permits.

Illinidiva on January 28, 2013 at 2:13 PM

That would pretty much exclude all of them, then, wouldn’t it? Since they all broke the law to enter the US. Or, is there something about the term “illegal” you – and he – don’t understand?

cptacek on January 28, 2013 at 2:01 PM

Wait…. We have to use illegal residents to pick our lettuce because to do otherwise will harm food safety?!? You mean like the increase in E. coli-based recalls in the last several years? That sort of an harm? Riiiiight…….

GWB on January 28, 2013 at 2:31 PM

GWB on January 28, 2013 at 2:31 PM

The irony is…such a tough guy, if you were in Mexico you would do the same, try to come to America to better your life…or stay in Mexico and suffer…

The fact is, the huge majority came here the same reason our forefathers did, and some illegally…

It’s a simple formula for success in America…keep the productive and purge the unproductive.

But then you would much rather spend the time and money ridding us of people who work everyday, as opposed to those on the gov. dole.

Give me a work “group” in Salinas, here illegally picking vegetables, earning a living, being productive over a ghetto in Chicago or Detroit…you tell me which one builds America, you tell me which groups identity built America, and which one is destroying America…

That’s the irony, now if you can find someone to go out into the fields and pick, go ahead…or maybe a unionized work force to pick the veggies for you, let’s see you afford that.

And that’s the reality of having to make a choice…people differ on the severity of the law…entering illegal to be productive I think is different from entering to be destructive as a criminal…our borders should be closed to the “wrong” people, not the “right” people…

right2bright on January 28, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Wait…. We have to use illegal residents to pick our lettuce because to do otherwise will harm food safety?!? You mean like the increase in E. coli-based recalls in the last several years? That sort of an harm? Riiiiight…….

GWB on January 28, 2013 at 2:31 PM

(just to be clear…I am against this carve out for the poor fruit pickers)

BTW, does that provision mean that farmers don’t have to pay their illegals/going-to-become-legalish minimum wage?

cptacek on January 28, 2013 at 3:18 PM

Yet again nary a word in their proposal about addressing illegal immigrant identity theft. At least require them to divulge the SSN they’ve used for employment/credit/medical care so the victims can be informed and begin to fix the damage!

Nope, instead victims clean the mess and bear the consequences.

batter on January 28, 2013 at 12:41 PM

If an illegal is using my SSN, then do I get the credit for it for Social Security? Am I on the hook for it if they didn’t pay their fair share. (just using the left’s words against them w.r.t. fair share)

cptacek on January 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM

http://www.alipac.us/

Get the facts, get on the phone, fight back.

If not U.S. who?

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 28, 2013 at 3:47 PM

But then you would much rather spend the time and money ridding us of people who work everyday, as opposed to those on the gov. dole.

right2bright on January 28, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Don’t put words in my mouth. Especially not when I’m one that advocates for total elimination of all governmental involvement in any sort of charity program.

As far as your attempt to turn these folks into cute and cuddly pro-Americans…. If your first act upon entering a society is to break its laws, your desire to ‘integrate’ into that society is questionable at best. But, you know what? If they really want to come here that badly, then – once they go home – they can apply to come here through legal means. Or, maybe, they could work to make their home country a better place to live. There’s a couple of options – that don’t involve breaking our laws.

Nowhere in this have I advocated closing our borders. I think, however, that we should (through enforcement and attrition) get rid of all the illegal entrants possible, and prevent any more from entering. Once we have done so, we can talk about the proper mix for immigration to this country. Only at that point will I care about their motives or how hard they work. Until then they are invaders of our national and state sovereignty.

GWB on January 28, 2013 at 4:02 PM

What the R leadership is doing behind our backs.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/279445-boehner-confidence-bipartisan-immigration-bill-will-be-approved-this-congress

From The Hill, 1/26/2013 by Russell Bermar

So, no hearings in public, no input from U.S.A., no town hall meetings, no amendments, just “secret meetings” and its done.

Very Constitutional, almost as Constitutional as Fast and Furious.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 28, 2013 at 5:08 PM

It is very clear that it is U.S. that are at the back of the line now.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM

Oh boy, where do I begin?
First, South Carolina and Arizona voters, you got cornholed AGAIN. So sorry. Learn to primary.
Second, Marco Rubio needs to be stopped now, either by pulling McCain and Graham off of him or by term limits, because he is the new Maverick and we are going to be dealing with his cross the aisle reach around for years to come. And PLEASE do not say Rubio 16 anyone or we are going to drown you in the Rio Grande.
Third, try enforcing the laws on the books, add E-Verify before you do anything. And, let the border guards a tally do their jobs. They get attacked, let them fight back. Bean bags, that’s what Obama has in Michelle’s panty, ack, panty drawer. Bean bags are not ammo. Oh, and stop giving any type of welfare to illegals. No work, no freebies, they will go home.
Fourth, the 14th Amendment. You shouldn’t be able to circumvent the law, drop your kid, and it is legal when you are not.
Fifth, most of these third world invaders with third grade educations, socialist inspirations, criminal records as they break into our country, and they do not want to be citizens. They just want our money.
Sixth, most of these workers are low skilled, paid under the table, no workmen’s comp, no health insurance, and no recourse since they are illegal. The companies employing them are going to fire all of them and wait for the next wave of illegals. And, those low skilled, third grade educated ‘citizens’ will be the new cousin Pookie sitting on the couch grabbing welfare and playing video games.

Somewhere, Calderon and Fox are smiling. Their welfare, baby dropping, criminal dump onto America worked. And, we are not dumping them back.

At least Menendez’s underage hookers will have papers. That’s something.

RovesChins on January 28, 2013 at 5:40 PM

I guess we can look forward to more stories like this:

San Antonio boy killed by drunk illegal alien.

TxAnn56 on January 28, 2013 at 11:39 AM

Geez.. Because immigrants are totally more likely to commit crimes like drunk driving than regular citizens… eyes roll. A huge part of the Rubio principles is that people who commit crimes don’t get work permits. I’m assuming that if you commit a crime while on probation then you also lose your work permit and will be deported.

Illinidiva on January 28, 2013 at 2:13 PM

If idiots like Rubio would do their jobs and enforce the current laws instead of grandstanding for a bunch of criminals, then that boy MIGHT be alive today.

http://www.cis.org/node/3544

Some statistics for you, but I’m sure the numbers are much higher because apologists like yourself don’t want to hurt the illegals Allen’s, I mean, the undocumented worker’s feelings.

You assume a lot. You know what that makes you, Illone?

RovesChins on January 28, 2013 at 6:11 PM

Geez.. Because immigrants are totally more likely to commit crimes like drunk driving than regular citizens… eyes roll. A huge part of the Rubio principles is that people who commit crimes don’t get work permits. I’m assuming that if you commit a crime while on probation then you also lose your work permit and will be deported.

Illinidiva on January 28, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Illegal immigrants – who you seem to confuse with immigrants of the legal variety – are far more likely to commit crimes and and collect entitlements than native-born Americans.

Illegal aliens constitute over 25% of federal prison population:

http://www.citizensforlaws.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=76&Itemid=101

But, if “Dreamboat” supports it, you’ll blindly follow.

bw222 on January 28, 2013 at 6:17 PM

It is good that the outline includes improving the employee verification system but where are the penalties for those who continue to knowingly employ illegal workers? Without that it’s just meaningless noise.

Nomas on January 29, 2013 at 7:41 AM

If an illegal is using my SSN, then do I get the credit for it for Social Security? Am I on the hook for it if they didn’t pay their fair share. (just using the left’s words against them w.r.t. fair share)

cptacek on January 28, 2013 at 3:21 PM

No – you don’t get credit (it is held in a sub account). Besides, getting credit would be like theft of labor. It’s illegal labor and no one should be entitled to it.

Yes – if they use your SSN and incur a tax debt or their earnings are reported under your SSN, then the IRS will plan to collect from the SSN holder. This has already happened and it is a major headache for victims as the IRS states their job is to collect tax and not to investigate ID theft. It takes documentation and a lot of convincing. That also includes children who’ve had their SSNs used for earnings (I think a two-year-old got a nasty-gram from the IRS last year, for example).

To sum: you get no SSN credit but you get the tax liability and a possible visit from the IRS.

batter on January 29, 2013 at 10:09 AM

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