Immigration proposal: border security, visa overhaul, then normalization

posted at 8:01 am on January 28, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

A bipartisan group of Senators have already released the conceptual structure of an immigration reform compromise, if not the legislative language.  This is getting plenty of press today, and it will probably take most of the attention in politics this week for both its own substance and how it plays in both parties and among voters.  The compromise provides normalization for most of the illegal immigrants in the US, but puts certification of border security and a visa-program overhaul first — as well as all of those applying legally for immigration as of the bill’s passage:

Four Basic Legislative Pillars:

1. Create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States that is contingent upon securing our borders and tracking whether legal immigrants have left the country when required;

2. Reform our legal immigration system to better recognize the importance of characteristics that will help build the American economy and strengthen American families;

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

4. Establish an improved process for admitting future workers to serve our nation’s workforce needs, while simultaneously protecting all workers.

Since Pillar One will generate the most controversy, especially among conservatives, let’s take a look at the specifics.  The pledge includes a number of specific promises about adding resources to border security — long overdue, and held up by insistence on inclusion in a comprehensive bill.  The specifics of a path to citizenship come later in the section:

- Our legislation will require the completion of an entry-exit system that tracks whether all persons entering the United States on temporary visas via airports and seaports have left the country as required by law.

That should be one of the key components.  The broken visa system, along with lax security at the border, were both cited by the 9/11 Commission in its report of dangerous gaps in American security — and that was in 2005.  Almost eight years later, we’re just now getting around to addressing both.

- We recognize that Americans living along the Southwest border are key to recognizing and understanding when the border is truly secure. Our legislation will create a commission comprised of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and to make a recommendation regarding when the bill’s security measures outlined in the legislation are completed.

This improves on earlier proposals that gave the certification duty to the federal government.  It also provides border hawks in those states a very good argument for winning those gubernatorial and AG elections that will ensure that certification isn’t just a rubber stamp for DHS and the White House.

- While these security measures are being put into place, we will simultaneously require those who came or remained in the United States without our permission to register with the government. This will include passing a background check and settling their debt to society by paying a fine and back taxes, in order to earn probationary legal status, which will allow them to live and work legally in the United States. Individuals with a serious criminal background or others who pose a threat to our national security will be ineligible for legal status and subject to deportation. Illegal immigrants who have committed serious crimes face immediate deportation.

- We will demonstrate our commitment to securing our borders and combating visa overstays by requiring our proposed enforcement measures be complete before any immigrant on probationary status can earn a green card.

- Current restrictions preventing non-immigrants from accessing federal public benefits will also apply to lawful probationary immigrants.

This is another concession to conservatives, who have argued that an “amnesty” program would explode entitlement spending.

- Once the enforcement measures have been completed, individuals with probationary legal status will be required to go to the back of the line of prospective immigrants, pass an additional background check, pay taxes, learn English and civics, demonstrate a history of work in the United States, and current employment, among other requirements, in order to earn the opportunity to apply for lawful permanent residency. Those individuals who successfully complete these requirements can eventually earn a green card.

I assume those who don’t meet those prerequisites will get deported, but we will have to see what the legislative language says to know for sure.

- Individuals who are present without lawful status – not including people within the two categories identified below – will only receive a green card after every individual who is already waiting in line for a green card, at the time this legislation is enacted, has received their green card. Our purpose is to ensure that no one who has violated America’s immigration laws will receive preferential treatment as they relate to those individuals who have complied with the law.

This is another concession to conservatives, and really to reality.  It’s the only way to incentivize legal immigration in the future, as opposed to sneaking in and hoping for the best.

- Our legislation also recognizes that the circumstances and the conduct of people without lawful status are not the same, and cannot be addressed identically.

For instance, individuals who entered the United States as minor children did not knowingly choose to violate any immigration laws. Consequently, under our proposal these individuals will not face the same requirements as other individuals in order to earn a path to citizenship.

Similarly, individuals who have been working without legal status in the United States agricultural industry have been performing very important and difficult work to maintain America’s food supply while earning subsistence wages. Due to the utmost importance in our nation maintaining the safety of its food supply, agricultural workers who commit to the long term stability of our nation’s agricultural industries will be treated differently than the rest of the undocumented population because of the role they play in ensuring that Americans have safe and secure agricultural products to sell and consume. These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

Assuming that the border and visa problems are finally resolved, this makes sense as a compromise between the two factions of the immigration issue.  The idea that 11 million people are going to “self-deport” is fantasy, and unless we want to have a permanent underclass of people who are never properly vetted and then integrated, we will have to find a path to normalization.  The Wall Street Journal cautiously agrees:

Tricky issues have yet to be resolved, including how to assess whether the border-security benchmarks have been met, how to alleviate the backlog of people waiting for legal visas and how many people would be admitted under the new temporary-worker program. …

But many in Congress, particularly Republicans, worry that after legislation is passed, there will be a fresh wave of illegal crossings as the economy rebounds. To combat that, the framework proposes increased technology, infrastructure and personnel, including more unmanned aerial vehicles, to apprehend unauthorized entrants. It calls for stronger prohibitions against racial profiling and more training of border patrol agents. …

A Rubio aide said Mr. Rubio would like to see ‘operational control of the border,’ a standard some advocates fear would be both hard to define and never be met. … Once the enforcement measures are complete, people with probationary status could earn permanent legal residence, which can lead to citizenship, if they pay taxes, learn English and meet other requirements. They wouldn’t be able to earn a green card until all those waiting on the day the legislation is passed get theirs. That meets a GOP demand that people who came to the U.S. illegally don’t earn special treatment.

As far as the politics of Rubio’s intervention in this issue goes, a source on Capitol Hill writes to me that it put “a conservative in the room making sure our principles will be in whatever gets passed — they can’t cut their own deal.”  Obama was going to press forward on immigration reform in the Senate for sure, and probably hoped to further damage the GOP with Latinos, especially if House Republicans had to balk at an all-Democrat (or all-Democrat plus John McCain) deal.  Rubio’s influence on the package in insisting on a real border-first approach and a process that doesn’t allow normalization to occur ahead of existing applications for immigration “gets our principles out in front of the President” and stops Obama from “outflanking” Republicans on immigration.

This is an improvement over the 2006-7 proposals that ended up going nowhere.  It’s hardly perfect, but in a government with split control for at least the next two years (four, from the GOP’s perspective), it’s a good compromise to get us past this issue and finally start addressing border security to the satisfaction of the states involved, rather than the federal government.


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Yeah Ed “increasing vorder security” um really?

Until our southern border looks like Mexico’s does it’s a joke.

When you learning Spanish Amigo it will be the official language here within 20 years?

Congrats GOP I will never vote for you again until I get to vote in Mexico like Mexico gets to vote in America.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:04 AM

And Ed you are PRECISELY correct the govt is split for “two years” Nancy gets the gavel back in 2014.

bet on it, I quit.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:05 AM

Support La Raza, McCain does. It might be a good idea to use your political contributions to help MecHA to get petitions going in California, Arizona, and New Mexico to go home, maybe take Nevada as well.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:06 AM

Everything is based on contingency ….they don’t follow the laws now do we really expect them to follow the new ones

I just don’t see it…..

Gop will get blamed because we’re not giving bennies to them….

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:09 AM

Gop will get blamed because we’re not giving bennies to them….

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:09 AM

We should just start engaging in felony fraud like they do. Si senor I have six kids who lack social security card I can how you back home in Mexico. Yo Quiero Child Tax Credit, Yo queiro earned income credit?

Article V conservatives should use the illegals who are “better Americans than we are” to break up the federal government and start over.

Ram it down the donkey’s throat.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:12 AM

So Rubio says border security, visa overhaul and then normalization. Yeah Yeah Yeah, but SARAH says visa overhaul, border security and then normalization!

Marcus on January 28, 2013 at 8:13 AM

Gop will cave on the back of the line issue

That won’t last

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:13 AM

Heh harlekwin

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:14 AM

So what is dear leader going to say in vegas… hes touting his reforms

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:15 AM

MeanWhile,Reid says he likey……

Aide: US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid backs immigration reform outline – @Reuters

7 mins ago by editor

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:16 AM

Boy, the farmers’ lobby is certainly strong!

OldEnglish on January 28, 2013 at 8:17 AM

Gop will cave on the back of the line issue

That won’t last

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:13 AM

Neither will English being a req, nor even rudimentary knowledge of Civics.

I am going to be accused of being a racist, nativist, dinosaur and I don’t care. I spent my youth helping Vietnamese and Cambodians study for the 1980s citizenship testing. This is not about race this is about a defacto soft invasion and weaponized racial education indoctrination.

Democrats murdered their babies so they have to import a new racially charged grievance class.

Article V break it up, start over.

If you are a Conservative trapped in a blue “paradise” move to Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi et al and support the mexican “superior Americans” with a smile and learn to tell them about Article V and their chance to destroy the evil Yanqui superpower.

Turn this back on the democrats.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:18 AM

Ohhhhh…they’re unauthorized. Why didn’t you say so in the first place, I was under the impression the border jumpers were illegal.

Sign me up as a supporter of amnesty for the unauthorized.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 8:18 AM

it’s a good compromise to get us past this issue and finally start addressing border security to the satisfaction of the states involved, rather than the federal government.

that fact that we compromised, yet again. makes me feel a whole lot better. oh, my, and look at the handsome welcoming face of marco rubio. just the kind of guy i want opening the door to our southern borders and allowing a flood of hardworking law abiding mexicans to cross into our country. and if a few al-quada slip in, hey, part of our freedom.

renalin on January 28, 2013 at 8:18 AM

So what is dear leader going to say in vegas… hes touting his reforms

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:15 AM

I don’t know.

I was told by some great leader to forget about Vegas.

Electrongod on January 28, 2013 at 8:20 AM

Since Pillar One will generate the most controversy, especially among conservatives, let’s take a look at the specifics. The pledge includes a number of specific promises about adding resources to border security — long overdue, and held up by insistence on inclusion in a comprehensive bill.

… all of which would be agreed to in order to get the rest of the bill passed, and then promptly ignored while all of the illegals become citizens quickly.

Like the “raise taxes, we’ll cut spending later” agreements, this kind of illegal immigration ‘reform’ has been done before in various mutations – and never followed through upon.

Just say no. Don’t bundle these things into a single bill, do them one at a time, predicated on the success of the earlier elements.

Secure the border first – period. When it’s done, then come back and talk about what to do next. If it’s not done – and it won’t be – there’s no need to worry about the subsequent bits of legislation.

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 8:22 AM

Renalin,

Si Si if you like you bill of rights you can keep your bill of rights senor!

I am wondering if it’ll be the first or second to completely go?

The “new amigos” will demand hate speech be outlawed and oddly their La Raza rhetoric won’t be hate speech but Barry and Di Fi are pretty hot to start making a list of guns….

I’d take the 2d at odds.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:22 AM

Results for #immigration

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23immigration&src=hash

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM

Ed, love ya, man, but… seriously, thee’s a noticeable sea-change in the writing here at HA from you guys. What’s the scoop? Why are you guys pushing the ‘establishment’ line so much lately? Getting incentivized – if not simply instructed – to do so, as a corporate effort? HA used to at least seem more independent, but any more, it’s like you’re getting directives from the GOP as to what to cover and how to spin it.

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM

The GOP has finally lost all of it’s base.

Good luck to them.

Mr. Arrogant on January 28, 2013 at 8:27 AM

You’re way too naive, Ed. The problem with this “reform” is that you’re required to put your faith in the same federal government that didn’t secure the border after the last “normalization” 27 years ago and has gone so far as suing Arizona when they attempted to enforce an illegal immigration law designed to mirror the federal one.

Call me a cynic, but I see it playing out like this should the House Republicans(enough of them anyway) cave. Obama and the Dems pay lip service to enforcing the border, reforming the legal immigration system, and punishing employers who hire illegals, and then proceed to do nothing about it. They insist publicly that the 12-20 million illegals already here have to go to the back of the line and fulfill certain requirements before they’re allowed to become citizens, and then proceed to waive said requirements out of a sense of compassion. And if you call them out on it, you’re a racist xenophobe who hates Latinos.

Oh and BTW, the Republicans may also lose the House in 2014 if they cave. Remember, the Dems need to only pick up around 17 seats to flip the chamber. Don’t tell me that can’t happen if the base is crapped on again like they were in 2006-07. Personally, I’m leaning heavily towards never voting Republican again if this bill is passed.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 8:28 AM

As urban elitist reminded us, illegals have already proven themselves as lawbreakers and the enormous majority will make below average citizens at best.
 
(FWIW, I separate myself from his Hispanic stereotyping and wholly disagree with assumptions based entirely on color or country of origin.)

rogerb on January 28, 2013 at 8:28 AM

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM

Ed’s been consistent on the issue. Ed has always been with the “so moderate he’s a borderline Donk from most states” wing of the party. I’d lay even money on his having a signed copy of “It’s my paty too!” from CT Whitman and a Chris Christie poster.

The GOP is making it very clear it thinks it can make up for the lost conservatives with La Raza and “sane demcorats”…..

Get ready to find out boys.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:29 AM

MeanWhile………………………..

Illinois becomes 4th state to allow driver’s licenses for undocumented immigrants – @Reuters

9 hours ago from news.yahoo.com by editor
=============================================

http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-becomes-fourth-state-allow-drivers-licenses-undocumented-011755726.html

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 5:56 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:29 AM

It’s not about personalities or proclivities; it’s about solving a problem.

There will be plenty of comments to follow from folks who, irrespective of what solution is put forward, will complain. I suppose their only solution is a straight out deportation- not a negotiated solution. It’s frankly an instructive lesson on why the Republican Party is in such disarray. We’ve forgotten how to negotiate. A word which has become synonymous with surrender due to numerous unwise agreements that have come as of late. But that should only serve to help us identify when a good negotiation has occurred- not buttress us against listening to any potential deal.

The main goal should be to identify and deal with folks who are already here while not encouraging, in fact further discouraging, illegal behavior. Foremost should of course be finally securing the border. Those principles will be tenets of any wise policy.

This agreement mostly encompasses all those principles and it’s about time. This issue has for too long plagued our country, become a distraction and in the process made us less safe.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

Ed, love ya, man, but… seriously, thee’s a noticeable sea-change in the writing here at HA from you guys. What’s the scoop? Why are you guys pushing the ‘establishment’ line so much lately? Getting incentivized – if not simply instructed – to do so, as a corporate effort? HA used to at least seem more independent, but any more, it’s like you’re getting directives from the GOP as to what to cover and how to spin it.

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM

I haven’t changed my position on immigration at all. I’ve always been a fix-the-border-first, all-else-is-negotiable guy. Check back at Captain’s Quarters. Rubio’s position has been my position all along.

Ed Morrissey on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

Exactly, on all points.

Ed Morrissey on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

Lol EG

Good one

Morning :)

How’s your car looking this am?

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:31 AM

Canopfor,

Yes sir and that means they can vote!

Oddly I cannot just walk over into Mexopolis and do the same trick.

I will vote for the GOP when I get to vote in Mexico and not a minute sooner.

I gave 6500 bucks to Mitt Romney last cycle.

Enjoy it Republicans I will never give another dime.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:32 AM

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM

Well that and the “Buy a t-shirt!” pop ups which happen every 10 minutes.

I don’t want a t-shirt though I would feel more compelled to buy one if HotGas used someone like Melinda Sward aka the subway sandwich girl as a model.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 8:32 AM

Ed’s been consistent on the issue. Ed has always been with the “so moderate he’s a borderline Donk from most states” wing of the party. I’d lay even money on his having a signed copy of “It’s my paty too!” from CT Whitman and a Chris Christie poster. …

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:29 AM

Thanks for having my back, man. ;-)

Ed Morrissey on January 28, 2013 at 8:33 AM

+1 Midas

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:33 AM

I don’t agree that self-deportation is a “fantasy.” When governments start imposing penalties for hiring illegals and those penalties are enforced, illegals will leave. It’s a standard demand-side solution.

Just writing it off as “fantasy” steals at least one intellectual base, Ed.

Last point, when we have real unemployment at a bit over 14%, is it *really* a great thing to be talking about how we’re going to normalize illegal aliens….? I hate to sound protectionist and all that, but it is a very real issue that’s being glossed over in this rush to grant status to illegal aliens.

JohnTant on January 28, 2013 at 8:34 AM

Ed Morrisey,

Yes sir and your position is roughly akin to a guy named Gummy McDentures on demanding teeth bfore we gift US Citzenship.

There is no fence, there is no serious dam to stop the tide.

The United States cannot meet one of the very definitions of “nation” if we cannot control our own borders.

It makes more sense to just shut down INS and declare the whole planet US Citizens than it does letting the democrats go through this charade every 25 years or so….

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:34 AM

Ex-Las Vegan Rubio outlines a GOP vision for immigration reform

By MARCO RUBIO
SPECIAL TO THE LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Posted: Jan. 27, 2013 | 2:11 a.m.
Updated: Jan. 27, 2013 | 9:35 p.m.
**********************************

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/a-gop-vision-for-immigration-reform-188561751.html#

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:35 AM

Build the phucking fence you promised us and then we can start a new dialogue.
These phukers are the the NFL rules committee;”the fans aren’t happy with last years rules, so let’s change the rules so the fans can give us more of their money. And we will also get money from the new fans we will be creating.

Rio Linda Refugee on January 28, 2013 at 8:35 AM

As urban elitist reminded us, illegals have already proven themselves as lawbreakers and the enormous majority will make below average citizens at best.

Kind of broad brush- don’t you think?

This process identifies those people who now have been successfully hiding in the shadows. It places further scrutiny on their behavior, actions and screens their character- something not done today.

It would also lead to faster deportation for people who don’t qualify, thereby lifting the burden from our society. It aims to provide more scrutiny and better enforcement for those not participating in the process.

I would rather see that occur than the unofficial sanctioning of illegal activity which occur in many places today.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:36 AM

Agree with folks above

Lucy and the football

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:36 AM

I haven’t changed my position on immigration at all. I’ve always been a fix-the-border-first, all-else-is-negotiable guy. Check back at Captain’s Quarters. Rubio’s position has been my position all along.

Ed Morrissey on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

Yes, but Marco Rubio is just one of 100 Senators. Obama is the President. And if there’s one thing I would hope everyone on our side of the political spectrum should be damn certain of by now, it’s that this man has no regard for the law. For God’s sake, just 3 days ago, a circuit court told him he was in violation of the Constitution for illegal recess appointments!

This is also the man who refused to enforce the DOMA, who pushed through a health care law that forces us to purchase insurance, who illegally fired Inspector General Gerald Walpin, who took us to war in Libya without consulting Congress, who ordered the assassinations of two American citizens(one of whom was a 16 year-old kid), and who allowed 1-2 million illegals to remain in the US.

And this is who you trust to enforce the provisions of this bill once it’s signed into law?

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 8:38 AM

How’s your car looking this am?

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:31 AM

Frosty..
but not near as bad as the other day..

Electrongod on January 28, 2013 at 8:38 AM

It’s frankly an instructive lesson on why the Republican Party is in such disarray. We’ve forgotten how to negotiate. A word which has become synonymous with surrender due to numerous unwise agreements that have come as of late. But that should only serve to help us identify when a good negotiation has occurred- not buttress us against listening to any potential deal.

As of late? American conservatives have been getting the shaft for so long that we’ve started taking it for granted that no one will ever serve our interests. It’s not hard to be cynical when GOP’ers such as Ryan are telling everyone, while the Benghazi hearings are happening no less, that Killary would have been a successful POTUS.

“We’ve” no longer includes me. I’m tired of watching the GOP spot the other team 50 points before the game has even started. The demorats don’t negotiate, they steamroll and then give away a meaningless little nugget at the end to show everyone how bipartisan they are.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 8:40 AM

+1 doughboy @8:38

Good deal EG…..

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:41 AM

This agreement mostly encompasses all those principles and it’s about time. This issue has for too long plagued our country, become a distraction and in the process made us less safe.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

In order to have a negotiation parties must be discussing the same thing.

Barack Obama and the Democrat Party have made it quite plain they do not respect the US Constitution or Bill of Rights.

I can show you video of our “Constitutional Perfesser in Chief” mocking the US Constitution, CBS highlighting an a hole saying “eh just ignore parts of it we don’t like” and on and on.

There is no inherent goodness in the American psyche democrat or republican that prevents the mechanism and power of government from being used as a bane to freedom.

The GOP aiding the Democrats in importing tens of millions of people who have no loyalty to our system and no deference to tradition for the walking is stupid, self-destructive and shows they are unworthy of elected office.

I have Chinese friends who could not stay here legally that trained in US colleges for engineering degrees, I have EUropean friends that Tedster Kennedy made persona non grata in the 1960s.

Ten million guys named Juan getting to try to tilt this nation to destruction because they can walk across that imaginary line to our south with one party actively cheering says all you need to know.

Article V break it up shut it down, I will not have this Federal monster we have allowed to mutate beyond all recognition in the last 75 years turned against the American people lightly.

The Conservatives in this nation should join with the illegals and use them to break up this Federal government and start over.

The EPA and Regulatory Mandarin class should not be dictating outcomes on technology.

Break it up and build something better.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:42 AM

Canopfor,

Yes sir and that means they can vote!

Oddly I cannot just walk over into Mexopolis and do the same trick.

I will vote for the GOP when I get to vote in Mexico and not a minute sooner.

I gave 6500 bucks to Mitt Romney last cycle.

Enjoy it Republicans I will never give another dime.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:32 AM

harlekwin15:

Yup,I hear ya:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:42 AM

It’s not about personalities or proclivities; it’s about solving a problem.

There will be plenty of comments to follow from folks who, irrespective of what solution is put forward, will complain. I suppose their only solution is a straight out deportation- not a negotiated solution. It’s frankly an instructive lesson on why the Republican Party is in such disarray. We’ve forgotten how to negotiate. A word which has become synonymous with surrender due to numerous unwise agreements that have come as of late. But that should only serve to help us identify when a good negotiation has occurred- not buttress us against listening to any potential deal.

The main goal should be to identify and deal with folks who are already here while not encouraging, in fact further discouraging, illegal behavior. Foremost should of course be finally securing the border. Those principles will be tenets of any wise policy.

This agreement mostly encompasses all those principles and it’s about time. This issue has for too long plagued our country, become a distraction and in the process made us less safe.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

There’s a lot there to respond to, so let me break it down point-by-point:

1. Absolutely agree that we need to focus on solving the problem rather than the personalities and politics. “How will this affect us in the 2014 midterms” should not be a question that enters this debate. That’s one of the big problems on both sides of the aisle.

2. The Republican Party has not forgotten how to negotiate. The Republican Party has given up on negotiating. The GOP has become so afraid of its own shadow that its default position is surrender for fear of being labeled “extremist” and “obstructionist.” I happen to agree that straight-out deportation of the illegal immigrants already here is unrealistic. But I also don’t want to see us just give in to carte blanche amnesty either. And I think that’s what folks here, who you identify as the chronic complainers, are afraid of. We don’t believe any of these compromise proposals from the GOP because we know that the moment the Democrats shout “racist,” our party will cave. We’ve been burned too many times.

3. While I understand your point, I think you need to reverse the order of your wording. The “main goal” should be discourage further illegal immigration. Dealing with those already here, while important, should be a secondary goal. I don’t want to see people lurking in the shadows of society. I don’t want to see illegal immigrants leeching off of society, nor do I want to see them being taken advantage of. But I’m more concerned about who will come across the border tomorrow than who is here already. Fixing the system across the board for the future should be the first priority, “normalizing” those who are already here should be the second. Not the other way around.

4. Like Ed, I have absolutely no problem with negotiating a solution that allows those currently here to become “normalized,” contingent on implementing border security, an improved visa system, and other measures to prevent this problem from recurring. The problem, though, is that we’ve been here before. We cut that deal, and made those promises, in the 1980′s under Reagan. The normalization piece happened; the rest didn’t. It’s the same with “raise taxes now and we’ll promise to cut spending.” Liberals are liars, plain and simple. They will “negotiate” to get the piece the want and then renege on the rest.

That’s why conservatives pushed back so loudly against Bush’s “comprehensive immigration reform.” Because we didn’t buy it. If the Republicans in Congress can successfully push through a plan that doesn’t trigger the normalization of illegals until the checkpoints of border security, an improved visa system, etc. are met, then I might support it. But if, as I’m afraid, the Democrats bully the Republicans into removing the checkpoints, it will be a repeat of the 80′s all over again.

Shump on January 28, 2013 at 8:44 AM

1. Secure the border first. Nothing happens until the border is operationally secure.
2. Change the immigration/pathway laws to filter in the makers, and filter out the takers (like Australia, New Zealand, etc.) My bet is that this measure could keep the left from using immigration to create a permanent majority.

petefrt on January 28, 2013 at 8:45 AM

Like I always said about immigration reform, it was inevitable. Especially after the last GE.

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 8:46 AM

I think I am mostly sick of talking about this and the fact that as time has gone by these folks have become the victims. That aspect is only going to get worse, we all know our media. I do have some concerns. First border security, fool me once shame on you and I think you know the rest. Second, define minor. Democrats and I seem to differ on who can be counted on as big boys and girls now days. And last, the definition of serious crimes and just how much they are going to find out about people who use multiple names and fake ids. Are DUIs going to be a disqualifier?

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:46 AM

I haven’t changed my position on immigration at all. I’ve always been a fix-the-border-first, all-else-is-negotiable guy. Check back at Captain’s Quarters. Rubio’s position has been my position all along.

Ed Morrissey on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

Good, I’m glad you’re talking about it with this post. How about a series of blog posts where you debate amnesty with Michelle Malkin? From the GOP Senator’s actions, a lot of us get the feeling that this is all going to be Obamacare-like and rammed down our throats with no discussion. This will destroy the GOP voter base for a long time to come.

sauldalinsky on January 28, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Welcome back Speaker Pelosi! This is a joke , right?

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 8:47 AM

A couple of years back, the following allegorical story went viral. You may have seen this already, but it explains illegal immigration as succinctly as anything I have come across:

Let’s pretend I broke into your house. When you discover me there, you insist I leave. But I say, “I’ve made all the beds, washed the dishes, did the laundry, and cleaned the floors; I’ve done all the work you don’t like to do. I’m hardworking and honest (except for breaking into your house). Not only must you let me stay, you must also add me to your insurance plan, educate my kids, and provide these benefits to my husband, too (he will do your yardwork, he’s honest and hardworking too–except for that breaking in part). If you try to force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house and proclaim my right to be there! It’s only fair, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I’m trying to better myself. I’m hardworking and honest…except for, well, you know. I will live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness and prejudice.

Oh yeah, I want you to learn my language so you can communicate with me.

Good plan..don’t you think?

I understand that people want a better life for themselves and their children. We are all immigrants in this land, except for American Indians, and they got here by crossing the Bering Straight. But there is a huge difference between immigrating here legally and sneaking in illegally, between assimilating into an existing culture, and insisting on replacing a country’s existing culture with that of the country you left.

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 8:48 AM

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 8:40 AM

Right on, Bish. Right on.

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 8:50 AM

petefrt on January 28, 2013 at 8:45 AM

I agree that both of those countries have model immigration programs but unfortunately we do not have their geography. I’m not saying it’s impossible, it isn’t, but I envision a group of TSA losers running this operation. Probably become the new coyotes. I have met my government, they do not instill confidence.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

“We’ve” no longer includes me. I’m tired of watching the GOP spot the other team 50 points before the game has even started. The demorats don’t negotiate, they steamroll and then give away a meaningless little nugget at the end to show everyone how bipartisan they are.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 8:40 AM

Bishop:

Exactly,bipartisan was DOA,once Obama had lifted his hand off
the bible,back in Jan 09′,and its been Democrat RevengeO,ever
since!:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

As of late? American conservatives have been getting the shaft for so long that we’ve started taking it for granted that no one will ever serve our interests.

We’ll have to mostly disagree. Many self-proclaimed “conservatives” have hurt both themselves and the movement with both word and deed. Some conflate “principled” with non-negotiable in an absolutist sense.

Politics, my friend, is the art of negotiation. The skill is to constantly move yourself in a gradual manner towards a goal- without sacrificing principle. Republicans have mostly forgotten that as we’ve moved into a balkanized state. By the way, look at the Balkans- its been that way for a long time and is something we don’t want to mimic.

Look at the personal attacks on people who are trying to truly bridge the gap and move use forward. People like Rubio and Ryan who now that they’ve tried to formulate wise, realistic negotiations on several issues are demonized by their own party members more than Democrats. Why?

Democrats are successful because they mostly understand gradualism and exploit our divisions. They move en masse, mostly disagree in backrooms and organize their individual priorities. In the process, they’ve come pretty close to marginalizing the Republican Party.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

I understand that people want a better life for themselves and their children. We are all immigrants in this land, except for American Indians, and they got here by crossing the Bering Straight. But there is a huge difference between immigrating here legally and sneaking in illegally, between assimilating into an existing culture, and insisting on replacing a country’s existing culture with that of the country you left.

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 8:48 AM

You also understand that you are being asked to pay for it too?

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 8:52 AM

Agree with folks above

Lucy and the football

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 8:36 AM

This is the big thing. On paper, this idea looks like the best compromise (and let’s face it, there is going to have be some compromise on this issue) that can be struck. The problem is the ultimate end product. How close to this will it come?

Bitter Clinger on January 28, 2013 at 8:52 AM

Welcome back Speaker Pelosi! This is a joke , right?

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 8:47 AM

Nope no joke at all.

The GOP has decided that I as a fiscal conservative must not be represented. The ONLY way the GOP will compete for Mexican votes is to try to out Freesh*t Army Logistics the Democrats. I’ll die before I vote for that so they are doomed which means about 50 years of doctrinaire Marxist leadership in this nation.

Break it up, shut it down the 15-30% of the nation that is truly conservative can team up with la Raza and the Marxists to wreck the federal Experiment and start over. In not being able to agree at an Article V convention on anything acceptable the most likely outcome is break up. Defang the monster of Federal Juggernaut before they turn it on you.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:52 AM

As urban elitist reminded us, illegals have already proven themselves as lawbreakers and the enormous majority will make below average citizens at best.
 
rogerb on January 28, 2013 at 8:28 AM

Kind of broad brush- don’t you think?…
 
Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:36 AM

 
Agreed, which is why I always make it a point to separate myself from such blatant bigotry.

rogerb on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

Does anyone think it is the least bit odd that when people break the law, law abiding citizens get penalized?

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

Ed, love ya, man, but… seriously, thee’s a noticeable sea-change in the writing here at HA from you guys. What’s the scoop? Why are you guys pushing the ‘establishment’ line so much lately? Getting incentivized – if not simply instructed – to do so, as a corporate effort? HA used to at least seem more independent, but any more, it’s like you’re getting directives from the GOP as to what to cover and how to spin it.

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM

Ed’s always been a lib. Read his stuff from years back, there’s the proof.

air_up_there on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

Well I don’t have any racist attitudes towards Mexicans. I’d much prefer a hard working, tax paying Mexican to a lazy-assed native born American who collects welfare.

So yeah – this looks like a great start to me!

Conservatives who oppose this effort really are going to marginalize themselves because there’s so many more people who favor this kind of an approach.

So this is happening folks – and if you’re not aboard then you’re shut out of the discussion entirely … consider that even darlings of the conservative movement, like Rand Paul – are supporting this …

“We’re getting an ever-dwindling percent of the Hispanic vote, Paul told ABC News. “We have to let people know, Hispanics in particular, we’re not putting you on a bus and shipping you home.”

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

We were missing you last night.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:54 AM

Ed’s always been a lib. Read his stuff from years back, there’s the proof.

air_up_there on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

Heh … yeah I really like all his posts in favor of PRO-CHOICE … or that time he endorsed Barack Obama … or …

You guys are cute … just because a guy disagrees with you one topic you pronounce him Lucifer incarnate!!

LMFAO

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:55 AM

You also understand that you are being asked to pay for it too?

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 8:52 AM

You’d better believe it!

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 8:56 AM

These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

Sounds like a blanket amnesty.

Again, this provides no benefit to the GOP politically.

Hispanics, as long as they continue to be poor, will vote for a Democrat. And as of right now, they’re the poorest ethnic group in the country.

sentinelrules on January 28, 2013 at 8:56 AM

12 million Democrat voters… yeah, the Party of Stupid.

WordsMatter on January 28, 2013 at 8:56 AM

I envision a group of TSA losers running this operation. Probably become the new coyotes. I have met my government, they do not instill confidence.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

I hear ya. And I agree that’s the likely outcome, especially with the current GOP leadership (such as it is).

petefrt on January 28, 2013 at 8:57 AM

There will be plenty of comments to follow from folks who, irrespective of what solution is put forward, will complain. I suppose their only solution is a straight out deportation- not a negotiated solution. It’s frankly an instructive lesson on why the Republican Party is in such disarray. We’ve forgotten how to negotiate.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:30 AM

We had a negotiated solution in 86 and how did that work out? We were promised one Amnesty and they would fix the enforcement issue. Do you really expect anybody to fall for that a second time?

DFCtomm on January 28, 2013 at 8:57 AM

Yeah Honda….

I suggest you read up on Tax Fraud Mi Amigo….

this ain’t about race….

I helped between 72 and 120 people get their US Citizenship not one EUropean and Several Africans…

no, this is about the final nail in the coffin of the Bill of Rights w/in 12 years.

Article V break it up shut it down, you have the Donks using regulatory fiat and executive orders to thwart states trying to engage in economic recovery.

Break this monster up before they weaponize the whole thing against the people.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 8:58 AM

Well I don’t have any racist attitudes towards Mexicans. I’d much prefer a hard working, tax paying Mexican to a lazy-assed native born American who collects welfare.

So yeah – this looks like a great start to me!

Conservatives who oppose this effort really are going to marginalize themselves because there’s so many more people who favor this kind of an approach.

So this is happening folks – and if you’re not aboard then you’re shut out of the discussion entirely … consider that even darlings of the conservative movement, like Rand Paul – are supporting this …

Get ready for Speaker pelosi! This will happen again!

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 8:58 AM

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

I wonder if those are illegal or legal Hispanic voters?

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:58 AM

Immigration Policy
@ImmPolicyCenter

IPC is an immigration research and advocacy org that seeks to shape a rational conversation on immigration through research and analysis.

Washington, DC · http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/

https://twitter.com/ImmPolicyCenter
==================================

http://immigrationimpact.com/

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:59 AM

Look at the personal attacks on people who are trying to truly bridge the gap and move use forward. People like Rubio and Ryan who now that they’ve tried to formulate wise, realistic negotiations on several issues are demonized by their own party members more than Democrats. Why?

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

Maybe because their negotiations have gotten our side nothing in return. Seriously, what have the House GOP achieved since Election Day? They caved on tax hikes and voted in favor of a bill that not only didn’t cut spending, it actually increased it. They caved on the debt ceiling and again got zero in spending cuts. They caved on the Sandy bill despite it being loaded with pork that had nothing to do with aiding the victims of the hurricane. And now Boehner is all but waving the white flag with his public comments about “comprehensive immigration reform”.

I’m looking at all of this transpire and I’m scratching my head trying to figure out when the Dems retook the House. What the hell was the point of all the hard work of 2010 and 2012 if in the end the Republicans are simply gonna rubber stamp the Obama agenda? We may as well have Pelosi as Speaker and let their party own the entire outcome rather than give Obama a foil(which BTW is a big reason he was reelected last year).

And what’s even more infuriating about all of this is that the GOP is about to cave on an issue that Obama didn’t even run on and refused to deal with in his first term out of a fear of political fallout(remember the Univision reporters giving him the third degree over it in 2012?). For chrissakes, the Republicans are now providing him cover on the damn thing!

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 8:59 AM

We had a negotiated solution in 86 and how did that work out? We were promised one Amnesty and they would fix the enforcement issue. Do you really expect anybody to fall for that a second time?

DFCtomm on January 28, 2013 at 8:57 AM

Nope.

The border security provisions from 1986 should be enforced first before any attempt at Illegal Alien Love-Fest Part Deux.

sentinelrules on January 28, 2013 at 9:00 AM

petefrt on January 28, 2013 at 8:57 AM

Oh well, it will give us something new to complain about.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 9:00 AM

If they already broke the law entering this country, why do you trust them to adhere to an oath?

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 9:00 AM

You guys are cute … just because a guy disagrees with you one topic you pronounce him Lucifer incarnate!!

LMFAO

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:55 AM

I definitely think Ed is still conservative. But you never know, people change…at one time Charles Johnson seemed conservative.

sauldalinsky on January 28, 2013 at 9:01 AM

Maybe because their negotiations have gotten our side nothing in return. Seriously, what have the House GOP achieved since Election Day? They caved on tax hikes and voted in favor of a bill that not only didn’t cut spending, it actually increased it. They caved on the debt ceiling and again got zero in spending cuts. They caved on the Sandy bill despite it being loaded with pork that had nothing to do with aiding the victims of the hurricane. And now Boehner is all but waving the white flag with his public comments about “comprehensive immigration reform”.

I’m looking at all of this transpire and I’m scratching my head trying to figure out when the Dems retook the House. What the hell was the point of all the hard work of 2010 and 2012 if in the end the Republicans are simply gonna rubber stamp the Obama agenda? We may as well have Pelosi as Speaker and let their party own the entire outcome rather than give Obama a foil(which BTW is a big reason he was reelected last year).

And what’s even more infuriating about all of this is that the GOP is about to cave on an issue that Obama didn’t even run on and refused to deal with in his first term out of a fear of political fallout(remember the Univision reporters giving him the third degree over it in 2012?). For chrissakes, the Republicans are now providing him cover on the damn thing!

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 8:59 AM

The American people voted for gridlock to continue in 2012! This is not gridlock?

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM

Oh well, it will give us something new to complain about.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 9:00 AM

Speaker Pelosi in 2015 will turn this country at best into EUtopian Socialist and at worst soft communist.

Nationalized Energy companies, price controls, and massive waves of “legal” immigration through ‘refugee” status.

Obama is unleashed.

You won’t be complaining for long, I assure you.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

We were missing you last night.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 8:54 AM

Cindy Munford:Thanks,I’ve gots a boinking cold,try’n to tuff it out:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM

Oh well, it will give us something new to complain about.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 9:00 AM

Yup, a gazillion more union workers and invasive body scans at the border.

petefrt on January 28, 2013 at 9:03 AM

Kind of ironic they must prove current employment and yet e verify should have caught them in the first place

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 9:04 AM

“We’re getting an ever-dwindling percent of the Hispanic vote, Paul told ABC News. “We have to let people know, Hispanics in particular, we’re not putting you on a bus and shipping you home.”

HondaV65 on January 28, 2013 at 8:53 AM

wait till granny can’t get her hip done cause julio got multiple back surgeries and a free lifetime supply of viagra.

good times ahead.

renalin on January 28, 2013 at 9:05 AM

MeanWhile,..back at the Arizona Ranch……………….

Arizona bill would compel hospitals to check immigration status
January 26, 2013, 6:00 a.m.

Under a bill introduced this week in Arizona, hospital staffs would be compelled to check whether uninsured patients are in the country illegally.
(More…)
========

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ff-arizona-hospitals-immigrants-20130125,0,7985961.story

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 9:06 AM

Net positive migration from Mexico and Latin America went to around 0 in 2007. If Castro and Chavez die, they don’t have to be replaced by Barrientos Aguadeloro, or Reynaldo Régan. They just have to be replaced by people who don’t share Fidel Castro’s desire to keep fighting the Latin American end of the Cold War. If that happens, foreign investment could start flowing into Latin America, and jobs right along with that investment. We could all be going through all of this, just to keep in America families who otherwise would seek jobs back in Mexico and Honduras.

Sekhmet on January 28, 2013 at 9:07 AM

Canopfor,

Yup it sucks I know the citizens of the border states want law enforcement on immigration…well does Barky and Juan Queeg have a deal for YOU!

Support La Raza and MecHA twist them to Article V supporters, break it up shut it down.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:08 AM

These individuals will earn a path to citizenship through a different process under our new agricultural worker program.

If agriculture includes lawn care will Introduction to Leaf Blowing be a required course for the workers?

docflash on January 28, 2013 at 9:09 AM

Speaker Pelosi in 2015 will turn this country at best into EUtopian Socialist and at worst soft communist.

Nationalized Energy companies, price controls, and massive waves of “legal” immigration through ‘refugee” status.

Obama is unleashed.

You won’t be complaining for long, I assure you.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM

You forgot Gun Control!

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 9:09 AM

Net positive migration from Mexico and Latin America went to around 0 in 2007. If Castro and Chavez die, they don’t have to be replaced by Barrientos Aguadeloro, or Reynaldo Régan. They just have to be replaced by people who don’t share Fidel Castro’s desire to keep fighting the Latin American end of the Cold War. If that happens, foreign investment could start flowing into Latin America, and jobs right along with that investment. We could all be going through all of this, just to keep in America families who otherwise would seek jobs back in Mexico and Honduras.

Sekhmet on January 28, 2013 at 9:07 AM

That would be true, IF I did not listen to the Mexican government when I lived in El Paso and the activists.

They want to take back land we won and bought.

The United States is unworthy of its existence if it cannot control its borders like Mexopolis does its own.

You play Mexican illegals games in Mexico you go to prison for Dos Years mi amigo.

Article V break it up shut it down, stop our communists from bankrupting all our states.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:10 AM

sauldalinsky on January 28, 2013 at 9:01 AM

He didn’t change, he lost his mind.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 9:10 AM

You forgot Gun Control!

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 9:09 AM

No upthread I asked which part of the Bill of Rights gets illegally killed first.

I’ll take the 2d amendment at odds….the first about a week later.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM

********* SCRIBD Bipartisan immigration plan ****************

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/142894316/Bipartisan-immigration-plan

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM

Ed’s job on here is to propagandize on behalf of the Obama/Rubio amnesty, AP’s job is to demoralize amnesty opponents (“We must accept that unfortunately amnesty is inevitable”)

Jon0815 on January 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM

The American people voted for gridlock to continue in 2012! This is not gridlock?

jjnco73 on January 28, 2013 at 9:02 AM

It sure as hell doesn’t look like gridlock to me. The Republicans are acting like they just lost by an FDR or Reagan-sized landslide. They kept the House, came with half a million total votes in 4 swing states of winning the electoral college, and increased their total of governorships to 30(60% of the country).

The Dems lost in a similar type of outcome in 2004. Did they cave when Bush came out and proposed Social Security reform in 2005? Hell no! They unleashed holy hell and demagogued the issue to death before it ever stood a chance. If the Republicans stood their ground and fought for their principles(assuming they have any), the worst they’d do is hold the House in 2014 and pick up a few more Senate seats. Hell, if they played their cards right, they could retake the entire Congress. The numbers are theoretically in their favor. But if they p-ss all over the conservative base, they’re gonna risk the opposite outcome.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM

petefrt on January 28, 2013 at 9:03 AM

This roll out will probably be the last time we have any idea what the law is suppose to say. Once they write in legalese we won’t now what the heck they have done.

Cindy Munford on January 28, 2013 at 9:12 AM

The numbers are theoretically in their favor. But if they p-ss all over the conservative base, they’re gonna risk the opposite outcome.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM

They DO NOT WORK FOR US.

Get it?

The game is rigged, we send them there to make cuts they increase the spending.

hell they increase the spending 10% and pretend it is “zero added dollars out.”

We send them there to stop King Putt from artifically raising energy prices and they do nothing.

Name one regulatory monster they ceded their power to that they are trying to declaw?

You can’t because they do not.

Article V shut it down and break it up.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM

Canopfor,

Yup it sucks I know the citizens of the border states want law enforcement on immigration…well does Barky and Juan Queeg have a deal for YOU!

Support La Raza and MecHA twist them to Article V supporters, break it up shut it down.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 9:08 AM

harlekwin15:

Maybe the US Border Agents here in the Soo International bridge
could show,the Southern states how to enforce the border,maddening
it is!:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM

this immigration business is the last straw. throw away your birth certificates folks we’re all obama now.

right ed?

renalin on January 28, 2013 at 9:18 AM

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