Dems reassure supporters: The border-enforcement stuff in the new immigration plan is just a talking point for the GOP

posted at 10:31 am on January 28, 2013 by Allahpundit

Glorious candor from lefty Greg Sargent. Granted, this message is aimed at liberals by liberals in hopes of selling them on an immigration bill they won’t completely like — damn it, why can’t we have even weaker borders?? — but it has the virtue of being true. Remember, the big security concession in the new bipartisan bill is a blue-ribbon commission made up of southwestern governors, attorneys general, and “community leaders” who’ll collectively decide when the border is secure enough so that we can proceed to the citizenship phase of the project. This is, in other words, supposed to satisfy immigration hawks who prefer the “enforcement first” approach. A good-faith effort by Democrats to meet the right in the middle? No, not really:

[I]f this “commission” doesn’t ever decide the border is secure, couldn’t that result in 11 million people being stranded in second-class legal limbo?

That’s a legitimate worry, according to Frank Sharry, the executive director of America’s Voice, a group advocating for immigration reform. But he tells me that on a conference call yesterday, Democratic Senators reassured immigration advocates that this commission won’t be constructed in a way that will hold up the process for too long.

As Sharry put it, Democrats realize that they can’t “allow the commission to have a real veto” over setting in motion the path to citizenship. He noted that Dems see the commission as “something that gives the Republicans a talking point” to claim they are prioritizing tough enforcement, giving themselves cover to back a process that “won’t stop people from getting citizenship.” However, Sharry added: “The details of this are going to matter hugely, and we’ll have to fight like hell on the individual provisions.”

That said, Sharry concluded: “This is a left of center framework.”

Padding the ranks of Democratic voters was, is, and always will be the goal of this project for the left, which is why border enforcement is nothing more than a rhetorical box to be checked on the path towards citizenship. Mickey Kaus looks at the fine print:

If you read closely, you learn that illegal immigrants will actually be legalized immediately–given “probationary legal status,” allowing them to “live and work legally in thee United States” (according to Politico). The only thing that’s delayed, pending “stricter border enforcement,” is the opening of a “path to citizenship.” As if, once legalized, the 11 million are going to be unlegalized if enforcement measures are implemented with less than 100% efficacy.

The penalty for failing to meet the enforcement “trigger,” in other words, is both insufficient and fake. Insufficient because the undocumented will already have gotten the most important thing–the ability to live and work here legally (permanently, if we’re being realistic about it). Fake because it’s silly to think these 11M will be held indefinitely in non-citizen limbo if the implementation of enforcement fails, as it did in the last big immigration reform in 1986.

Once they’ve passed the bill, Republicans in Congress will have to choose between hiding behind the commission’s “enforcement” fig leaf as proof that border security’s been tightened and simply forgetting about it and backing a Democratic path to citizenship irrespective of border conditions. If the point of this is to build goodwill with Latino voters, it makes no sense whatsoever for the GOP to go all in on comprehensive reform now and then try to block amnesty later. Democrats will destroy them over it and any bit of goodwill will evaporate. Once you’ve committed to immigration concessions as a form of “goodwill,” you’d better be prepared to concede at every point of this legislative journey, now and in the future. More from Conn Carroll:

Just take the border commission. Who do you think is most likely to say the border is already secure enough to grant citizenship to those legalized by this plan? That’s right, Democrats. And who do you think is least likely to say the border is secure? That’s right, Republicans. Now guess which party will get blamed, and suffer politically, when the border is not declared “secure” regardless of the facts on the ground? Yup, Republicans. And while Republicans refuse to sign off on border security, legalized immigrants will be denied access to Obamacare subsidies or Medicaid expansion. Which party do you think they will blame for denying them health care?

The new Senate immigration plan not only grants expedited citizenship to a brand new set of illegal immigrants (agricultural workers) but it creates a brand new infinite amnesty by creating a path to citizenship for “temporary” guest workers as well. And it accomplishes all this while making it even more clear that Republicans are the mean bad guys of border enforcement.

And of course, even if Republicans acquiesce to all major Democratic demands and McConnell/Boehner line up enough votes in the Senate/House to pass the bill with bipartisan support, there’s still this problem via liberal Chris Bowers:

Hard to believe he’s not right about a majority of House Republicans voting no (remember, many come from deep red districts and fear a primary challenge more than the general election), in which case Obama gets the best of both worlds — the bill passes and Democrats nuke the GOP as still being the party of immigration obstruction. If we’re going to cave in the interest of building goodwill with Latino voters, then let’s really do it. A unanimous Republican vote for a bad Democratic bill makes far more sense politically according to the goodwill logic than the party dividing over a bill that’s likely going to pass anyway. But then, this brings us back to whether immigration is the key to goodwill in the first place:

A Republican economic agenda aimed squarely at the middle class would, I suspect, win more Latino votes than immigration gimmicks would, but if the new reform bill is the entry point for goodwill, then at least cave en masse. You’re not going to be able to squeeze Democrats for rigorous enforcement mechanisms; Democrats are in no mood to concede after November’s big win and they know full well that Republicans are sufficiently jittery about the Latino vote that even a weak bill will pass with some GOP support. There’s no truly bad outcome for them here: Either the bill passes unanimously, it passes with a handful of Republican votes and the rest of the GOP gets attacked for opposing reform, or the bill is blocked by Republicans and Democrats then run on a 2014 “the GOP hasn’t learned anything” platform. Which of those three is the best outcome? I’m asking honestly. I don’t know.


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The GOP should run on a platform of giving California back to Mexico, maybe that would win some latino votes. Think of all the illegals and liberals we could get rid of.

Flange on January 28, 2013 at 10:37 AM

Hey democrats we’re one step ahead of you we KNOW it traitors.

Article V break it up shut it down….

the ONE message our new “bestest Americans!” will listen to is breaking up the United States from us….

this is the chance to divorce red from blue….

we will not get it again.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 10:38 AM

…Senile Senator…AGAIN!
(running mate?)

KOOLAID2 on January 28, 2013 at 10:38 AM

Why the GOP is so eager to generate 30 million new Democrat voters is beyond me.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:39 AM

This is 1986 all over again, why dont we just admit defeat and pack up the country becuase its over.

ChunkyLover on January 28, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Why do liberals want unsecured borders?

Also, why are liberals self deluding idiots? I’d really like a liberal to explain that.

darwin on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

This deal is getting worse all the time.

BigGator5 on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Sean Trende is spot on.

CTSherman on January 28, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Dems reassure supporters: The border-enforcement stuff in the new immigration plan is just a talking point for the GOP

I believe I can speak for all Hot Gassers here when I say that none of us believe(d) otherwise.

M240H on January 28, 2013 at 10:42 AM

Give’em everthing they want, just classify all illeagals here today as felons and not allow them to vote when they get citizenship.

Tater Salad on January 28, 2013 at 10:42 AM

attorneys general

or as Obama would say – Attorney Generals

Slade73 on January 28, 2013 at 10:43 AM

All of which makes you wonder why GOP senators acquiesce to democrat demands to even have this discussion right now. What a sorry bunch of leaders we’ve got.

BKeyser on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

This deal is getting worse all the time.

BigGator5 on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

The deal is the GOP needs destroyed.

I’ve given 60% of my life, and a good amount of donations to a con.

I would support truly open borders with no INS, I would support legal Mexican immigration based on skill needs like the Canadian model is for the world.

This is not either of those because the democrats are simply VOTE SHOPPING for people who want handouts and have no loyalty to our system.

As such the republic i served in the military is dead.

Article V break it up and let the people choose their destiny.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

This is 1986 all over again, why dont we just admit defeat and pack up the country becuase its over.

ChunkyLover on January 28, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Was it over in 1986?

thebrokenrattle on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

Why the GOP is so eager to generate 30 million new Democrat voters is beyond me.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:39 AM

ask Ed Morrissey

Slade73 on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

OT:
Listening to the radio and the Smiths ‘what difference does it make?’ comes on

Lol

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM

I believe I can speak for all Hot Gassers here when I say that none of us believe(d) otherwise.

M240H on January 28, 2013 at 10:42 AM

A lot of the RINOs needed to pretend it was true because they needed that fig leaf so they could better defend amnesty. Sadly for them, the Democrats have deprived them of even this.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM

it makes no sense whatsoever for the GOP to go all in on comprehensive reform now and then try to block amnesty later.

AP, amnesty is so 2012, it’s called normalization now.

sauldalinsky on January 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM

Ugh!

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM

Was it over in 1986?

thebrokenrattle on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

There were still democrats loyal to the Bill of Rights in 1986.

Barack Obama would never have happened without liberal domination of schools and the media and 1986 as a matter of fact.

You want to reward people who hate our nation’s system and history no problem but stop demanding I keep pulling the wagon for the votes my political opponent buys.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM

1) The first requirement is ‘better border security’; problem is, the requirement is for more ‘resources’ (tax money- actually deficit spending), NOT for RESULTS. More spending does not equal results, as our education system has proven for decades. Heck, they could spend the ‘resources’ on more signs warning U.S. citizens to stay away from the area.
2) Legalized status for illegal workers here will translate into a massive loss of their jobs, dumping many into the entitlement system. Because one of the primary requirements of the employment is that they ARE ILLEGAL, and therefore devoid of the expense of workman’s comp, insurance, withholding taxes, safety regulations and hundred of other rules that massively drive up the cost of an employee. Your lawn service Luis will come to you and tell you the cost of doing your lawn will have to go up to $40, instead of $25. When he loses enough clients, Luis becomes our newest welfare recipient, a net LOSS to the taxpayers.
3) NEW illegal immigrants will flood across the border to take these lost jobs, not impeded in the least by new ‘resources’ on the border. The new guy Juan will come to your door and offer to do the yard for $25 as before.

michaelo on January 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM

The only way to kill this in the House is for them to say they will consider it when the economy is growing at 5% and when real unemployment is under 5%. Highlight the Hispanic and Black unemployment figures. They need to pit Hispanic and Blacks against these new illegal ones.

monalisa on January 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Give’em everthing they want, just classify all illeagals here today as felons and not allow them to vote when they get citizenship.

Tater Salad on January 28, 2013 at 10:42 AM

When has that ever stopped democrats from voting?

Alabama Infidel on January 28, 2013 at 10:48 AM

OT:
Listening to the radio and the Smiths ‘what difference does it make?’ comes on

Lol

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 10:46 AM

cmsinaz:Here ya go:)
=====================

Results for #Whatdifferencedoesitmake

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Whatdifferencedoesitmake&src=hash

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 10:49 AM

What difference does it make?

MT on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Was it over in 1986?

thebrokenrattle on January 28, 2013 at 10:45 AM

No, but in 1986 we had far fewer illegals and an economy in better shape. The Democrats were also weaker overall.

Economically this will kill us – this is some 30 million people that will immediately get put on welfare. That’s the whole reason the Republicans want to do amnesty – they think that if they legalize these guys and put them on welfare that they’ll all vote Republican blindly. Plus they get to dump that icky, yucky conservative base in the process.

Politically, this will probably also mean the end of the Republican party as a viable political entity given the breakdown of votes in the last four years. Not ONE of these people that gets legalized will vote for a Republican. They didn’t last time, and they won’t this time.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Gop- suckers

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Either the bill passes unanimously, it passes with a handful of Republican votes and the rest of the GOP gets attacked for opposing reform, or the bill is blocked by Republicans and Democrats then run on a 2014 “the GOP hasn’t learned anything” platform. Which of those three is the best outcome? I’m asking honestly. I don’t know.

Uh, I’d take the latter option in a heartbeat. 2014 should theoretically be a referendum on Obama’s performance, not on the party that only has control of the House. And 2nd term midterms are historically bad for the incumbent party. Combine all of that with the absence of Obama on the ballot which will keep minorities and young voters at home(much like in 2010) and the GOP stands to make huge gains in the Senate and possibly even pad their numbers a bit in the House.

What would destroy all of that is rubber stamping an amnesty bill that the conservative base is adamantly opposed to. Why do you think 2006 and 2008 were so ugly for the Republicans? It wasn’t just Iraq or out-of-control spending. McCain and Bush’s attempt to shove amnesty down our throats did major damage to the GOP until the Tea Party came along and rescued their sorry hides.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

Released: December 6, 2012
Unauthorized Immigrants: 11.1 Million in 2011
*********************************************

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/12/06/unauthorized-immigrants-11-1-million-in-2011/

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 10:51 AM

A Republican economic agenda aimed squarely at the middle class would, I suspect, win more Latino votes than immigration gimmicks would,

Allahpundit, for the love of Christopher Hitchens…. Quit smoking the catnip… a) it’s your cat’s and b) it causes you to write stuff that makes you sound like you have been playing paddy-cake with John McCain. Hispanics/Latino’s do not vote Democrat for the reasons you think they do. And their not going to vote Republican for the reasons you think they should either.

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 10:52 AM

Dems reassure supporters: The border-enforcement stuff in the new immigration plan is just a talking point for the GOP

The despicable, lying scumbag dems are correct. Border enforcement is a joke. We have tens of millions of aliens come through here every year on visas and it would be simple for millions to stay and become illegals without having to crawl over any physical border. The GOP is offering this joke of “enforcement” of one physical border to try and claim they are for the law (LOL).

There is no alternative to strong interior enforcement, and if we were to do that then amnesty is a moot point (as it is the opposite of interior enforcement). Juan McShame and the GOP turds are trying to push their idiotic, treasonous plan through and think that people are dumb enough to buy their silly “seal the border” rhetoric. It’s a sick joke.

I’m totally done with the GOP. They got my last vote in 2012. End of story. They can all go straight to hell with the despicable, lying scumbag dems they are allying with and the invading illegals who already are citizens of other countries that the GOP turds want to print up new American citizenships like Bernanke is printing dollars and let the illegals add the new paper to their growing citizenship portfolios.

It’s time for a national divorce. Let the idiots have their own country that exists without law and that gives benefits to those that force themselves on them. Good for them. They should have their own nation to build the hell they are so enthusiastic about living in. I want nothing to do with any of them or any of their insane ideas.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 28, 2013 at 10:53 AM

GOP until the Tea Party came along and rescued their sorry hides.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

I’m done rescuing, time to start state level Article V pushes.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 10:53 AM

The only way to kill this in the House is for them to say they will consider it when the economy is growing at 5% and when real unemployment is under 5%. Highlight the Hispanic and Black unemployment figures. They need to pit Hispanic and Blacks against these new illegal ones.

monalisa on January 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM

That would work, if we could get the media behind it, but I’m betting Fox will stick with the establishment line, and be neutral while all other outlets will be hostile.

DFCtomm on January 28, 2013 at 10:53 AM

What would destroy all of that is rubber stamping an amnesty bill that the conservative base is adamantly opposed to. Why do you think 2006 and 2008 were so ugly for the Republicans? It wasn’t just Iraq or out-of-control spending. McCain and Bush’s attempt to shove amnesty down our throats did major damage to the GOP until the Tea Party came along and rescued their sorry hides.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

A lot of Republicans have the fantasy that they can give the illegals amnesty, put them all on welfare, and then they will all vote Republican forever as a “captive minority.” When you tell them about 1986 they just don’t want to hear it or blame “racism”.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:54 AM

AP said:

Either the bill passes unanimously, it passes with a handful of Republican votes and the rest of the GOP gets attacked for opposing reform, or the bill is blocked by Republicans and Democrats then run on a 2014 “the GOP hasn’t learned anything” platform. Which of those three is the best outcome? I’m asking honestly. I don’t know.

The third, easily. Because as you noted yourself when quoting Trende above, immigration isn’t the reason Latinos don’t vote for the GOP.

Jon0815 on January 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM

The only way to kill this in the House is for them to say they will consider it when the economy is growing at 5% and when real unemployment is under 5%.

monalisa on January 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM

No. There is never a correct time to reward invaders who spit on our sovereignty. NEVER.

This is a sovereignty and Rule of Law issue, not an economic one.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Block en masse, and take the risk in 2014 that a majority of voters do not want amnesty – you have no other choice.

OldEnglish on January 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM

Excellent thanks Canopfor :)

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Why? Because comprehensive immigration reform position isn’t why most Latinos vote Democrat.

Bingo.

In fact, Latinos in the 2012 election rated the economy as the #1 issue for them instead of immigration.

Latinos vote Democrat because they’re poor, poor, poor.

sentinelrules on January 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM

Why do liberals want unsecured borders?

Also, why are liberals self deluding idiots? I’d really like a liberal to explain that.

darwin on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Secure Borders interfere with implementing Agenda 21.

workingclass artist on January 28, 2013 at 10:59 AM

McCain and Graham are nothing more than useful idiots for the Democrats.

rplat on January 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM

Economically this will kill us – this is some 30 million people that will immediately get put on welfare. That’s the whole reason the Republicans want to do amnesty – they think that if they legalize these guys and put them on welfare that they’ll all vote Republican blindly. Plus they get to dump that icky, yucky conservative base in the process.

Politically, this will probably also mean the end of the Republican party as a viable political entity given the breakdown of votes in the last four years. Not ONE of these people that gets legalized will vote for a Republican. They didn’t last time, and they won’t this time.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:50 AM

They are already on Welfare…as is obvious if you wander into a HHS office.

workingclass artist on January 28, 2013 at 11:01 AM

A lot of Republicans have the fantasy that they can give the illegals amnesty, put them all on welfare, and then they will all vote Republican forever as a “captive minority.” When you tell them about 1986 they just don’t want to hear it or blame “racism”.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 10:54 AM

Even if all these normalized illegals voted GOP(and they won’t BTW), what about all the p-ssed off conservatives who sit out future elections? The reason they lost in 2012 was because A)voters said they felt Obama cared about them more than Romney did and B)a majority still blamed Bush more for the economy than they did Obama.

Well one would hope that reason B will resolve itself. If after 8 years of Democrat rule, the economy still sucks, you would think the incumbent party will presumably get a lot more of the blame. If not, then start eyeballing the Canadian border because this country is beyond saving. As for reason A, Obama never ran on an amnesty platform, so I would assume that voters thought he cared more because he was promising all sorts of goodies under the absurd premise that “the rich” would pay for it all. Again, 4 more years under his economy will hopefully awaken at least some of these voters from that fantasy. And the rest falls upon the Republicans to explain to the electorate why their vision of balanced budgets and austerity measures may be painful but is ultimately necessary and inevitable.

Doughboy on January 28, 2013 at 11:03 AM

Immigration Direct
@immigrationDir

Prepare your U.S. Immigration forms and applications online. Citizenship, Green cards,US Visas and more. We take the confusion out of immigration.

USA · http://www.immigrationdirect.com/?r=twitter

https://twitter.com/immigrationDir

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 11:05 AM

But the GOP will…you know…stand up to the demorats through rigorous compromise.

Bishop on January 28, 2013 at 11:06 AM

Either the bill passes unanimously, it passes with a handful of Republican votes and the rest of the GOP gets attacked for opposing reform, or the bill is blocked by Republicans and Democrats then run on a 2014 “the GOP hasn’t learned anything” platform.

Option 1: The GOP loses it’s base and becomes even more irrelevant. They lose the base and their principles.

Option 2: The same as option 1.

Option 3: The GOP stands on principle and holds the base. They formulate a clear message as to why this is wrong for the country that is not filtered through the liberal media. They possibly win in 2014. If they lose in 2014 they still have their principles.

Clearly option 3 is the best choice.

voiceofreason on January 28, 2013 at 11:08 AM

Rearranging the deck chairs. So glad we have faith in the system. Those chairs will come in damn handy in their new positions.

Limerick on January 28, 2013 at 11:08 AM

If this wasn’t so tragic it would genuinely be funny. Most of you guys moaning and b!tching about a barn that has already burned to the ground. It isn’t just about closing the door after the horses got out, now you’re whining about the door on a barn that has completely burned to the ground still being open.

NEWS FLASH: America stopped having a illegal immigration problem 4 years ago. The net flow of illegal immigrates is out of the United States, not into it.

You guys are going to insist on building a damned wall, which will be used to prevent you fleeing Obama’s Marxist putsch.

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 11:11 AM

Why do liberals want unsecured borders?

darwin on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Simple, really:

1. Illegal immigrants push forward the left’s agenda. First off, they are a source of immense voter fraud, allowing lots of Democrat votes to be cast that never should have. Second, the drain they put on the government safety net allows liberals to continually push to expand the safety net, growing government, and giving them more power.

2. Making currently illegal immigrants legal allows the left to pander to Hispanic voters.

3. But to achieve # 1, you can’t have everyone just become legal. You have to continue to have an illegal immigrant population. If you legalize everyone, and seal the border, you dry that supply of illegals up. Therefore, if you are going to do # 2, you have to keep the border insecure so that you can also continue to accomplish # 1.

Shump on January 28, 2013 at 11:13 AM

voiceofreason on January 28, 2013 at 11:08 AM

The GOP is on a suicide run and nothing will stop it. The Tea Party revived the miserable pieces of sh!t in 2010 as a last gasp effort to save America, but the GOP immediately turned around and attacked the Tea Party and conservativism, finally leading to the pathetic disaster in the 2012 elections.

Now, feeling free of the Tea Party and conservatives the GOP is back on the path to self-immolation. I wish them luck and great pain in their efforts. They lost my vote and gained my everlasting contempt.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 28, 2013 at 11:13 AM

ChunkyLover on January 28, 2013 at 10:39 AM

Absolutely fact.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 28, 2013 at 11:13 AM

Also true.

But here’s what really burns me. NO ONE in Congress represents 47% to 49% of Americans – true conservatives. The GOP is a JOKE.

katablog.com on January 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM

Why? Because comprehensive immigration reform position isn’t why most Latinos vote Democrat.

Bingo.

In fact, Latinos in the 2012 election rated the economy as the #1 issue for them instead of immigration.

Latinos vote Democrat because they’re poor, poor, poor.

sentinelrules on January 28, 2013 at 10:58 AM

Sorry, that would be the WRONG answer. They vote Democrat because…. They come from Marxist nations and the Democrats appeal to their already well established political sensibilities. To their way of thinking, the Democrat ARE the sensible conservative voices. Conservative here being a term relative to the more Marxist politics of their home countries.

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 11:18 AM

given “probationary legal status,” allowing them to “live and work legally in thee United States” (according to Politico). The only thing that’s delayed, pending “stricter border enforcement,” is the opening of a “path to citizenship.” As if, once legalized, the 11 million are going to be unlegalized if enforcement measures are implemented with less than 100% efficacy.

Look up the word probationary and then try to understand the legal interpretation.

Can it be taken away (the legal status)? The answer is yes. As a matter of fact, that is what is why it is probationary and not permanent.

The fact is that Democrats can slice this any way they want. But if the conditions set to secure the border upon which a permanent legal status exists are not met- it won’t happen and they will be responsible for the limbo.

By the way, that may be what Democrats want in order to continue fallaciously characterizing Republicans as xenophobes and bigots
.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 11:20 AM

Excellent thanks Canopfor :)

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 10:57 AM

cmsinaz:0

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 11:26 AM

The fact is that Democrats can slice this any way they want. But if the conditions set to secure the border upon which a permanent legal status exists are not met- it won’t happen and they will be responsible for the limbo.

Marcus Traianus on January 28, 2013 at 11:20 AM

In what universe will the Democrats be held responsible for limbo?

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 11:27 AM

“You can have open borders or you can have the welfare state, but you cannot have both.”

- Milton Friedman

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 11:28 AM

But, but Rubio.

HerneTheHunter on January 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM

Statists always get their way. This seems to be on of the guiding principles of current politics. Looking back at the last decade I can’t see any wins for the limited government side.

ChunkyLover on January 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM

Option 3 ” the bill is blocked by Republicans” allows the GOP to run the same Tea Party platform from 2010 in 2014. Dems have a hard time getting their low info electorate to the polls in non-presidential years. The GOP will dominate and win many seats if the run on a platform of blocking amnesty. If the pick any other option, the party will lose like in 2006.

sauldalinsky on January 28, 2013 at 11:47 AM

Statists always get their way. This seems to be on of the guiding principles of current politics. Looking back at the last decade I can’t see any wins for the limited government side.

ChunkyLover on January 28, 2013 at 11:34 AM

The last major “deliverable” the GOP gave us was the Bush tax cuts, IMO. Since then it’s basically been deliberately failed token attempts at conservative policies, while spending out of control.

Doomberg on January 28, 2013 at 11:50 AM

Trende nails it…this won’t do diddly to attract Latinos to the GOP, which is why Republican fretting over the issue has been so mind boggling. It’ll be Obama that signs it, and it’ll be the Dems who get the “credit”…meanwhile, the GOP will have just agreed to add millions more Dem voters to the rolls. Makes no sense.

changer1701 on January 28, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Democratic Senators reassured immigration advocates that this commission won’t be constructed in a way that will hold up the process for too long.

Surprised?

Let’s wander down ‘memory lane’. 1986 – “There will be no more amnesty! We will secure our borders!”

And the politicians got their 3 MILLION new “citizens”. And promptly forgot ‘that secure borders thing’.

Now they want another 11 MILLION new “citizens” – BUT, this time they mean it about ‘securing our borders’.

Sure they do!

GarandFan on January 28, 2013 at 11:52 AM

And the politicians got their 3 MILLION new “citizens”.

GarandFan on January 28, 2013 at 11:52 AM

And that was after the official estimates of only around 750,000 illegal scumbags to have to prostrate American sovereignty for. Yep.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 28, 2013 at 11:55 AM

Immigration reform: Great for the country, not for the GOP

“Reform” will not be good for the country. But once again Republicans have boxed themselves into a “lose, lose” situation by completely failing to expose the shame of “reform” and articulate a rational alternative.

novaculus on January 28, 2013 at 11:58 AM

On McCain, same old story,,, “No fool like an old fool.”

Too, ya, is served in Vietnam, on the gound I-Corps and over the fence. I honor that he put his ass on the line with U.S. other.

McCain served then.

McCain is not serving U.S. now.

Keep it simple.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on January 28, 2013 at 12:03 PM

Who is the GOP Joseph Epstein?

Who is it coming to liberate America?

Speakup on January 28, 2013 at 12:07 PM

I agree with other posters in the thread. It’s time for the GOP to go the way of the Whigs and the Federalists. Maybe the TEA party can take its place?

pendell2 on January 28, 2013 at 12:16 PM

BigGator5 on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

Yes, the modern Democrat Party is just like Darth Vader too in that lie like a cheap rug to get what they want and then constantly alter the deal.

GeorgiaBuckeye on January 28, 2013 at 12:28 PM

Good grief. This is about the “free” stuff, not about immigration. WHY can’t they see that? Simple question, if amnesty was the answer, why didn’t Reagan’s amnesty translate to GOP dominance among Latinos?

Murf76 on January 28, 2013 at 12:30 PM

We need to star winning a larger share of the non-white vote than we currently are. Latinos just won’t suddenly flock to the Republican party, but it does give us more of a fair hearing with the population than we’re getting now. It is hard to talk about education reform when a group thinks that you want to deport their Nanas.

Illinidiva on January 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM

We need to star winning a larger share of the non-white vote than we currently are. Latinos just won’t suddenly flock to the Republican party, but it does give us more of a fair hearing with the population than we’re getting now. It is hard to talk about education reform when a group thinks that you want to deport their Nanas.

Illinidiva on January 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM

You owe it to yourself to watch Univision and telumundo and translate as much of the Mexican govt rhetoric on it as you can.

They are not coming here to assimilate and learn anything they are coming here to enrich mexico on our aid, work under the table if inclined and destroy our power.

“Good luck”

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 12:41 PM

Depressing. The GOP is the loser in every likely scenario, barring a presidential win + majorities in both houses. Oh, I pray for that day.

KS Rex on January 28, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Can we just have the conflagration and get this overwith?

We know it’s coming, and until these lawless political f*cks are out of power, we’re just biding time, awaiting the inevitable.

If this wasn’t so tragic it would genuinely be funny. Most of you guys moaning and b!tching about a barn that has already burned to the ground. It isn’t just about closing the door after the horses got out, now you’re whining about the door on a barn that has completely burned to the ground still being open.

NEWS FLASH: America stopped having a illegal immigration problem 4 years ago. The net flow of illegal immigrates is out of the United States, not into it.

You guys are going to insist on building a damned wall, which will be used to prevent you fleeing Obama’s Marxist putsch.

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 11:11 AM

NEWS FLASH: Even if there are a few fewer than there were a few years ago, until they are ALL gone, and no longer negatively impacting our economy, we still have an illegal immigration problem.

Midas on January 28, 2013 at 1:19 PM

Just open the gates so that even the illegal aliens get sick of the flood of Mexicans coming across the Rio Grande. Then we’ll be ready to build a barrier any way. Of course by then there will be enough Latinos in America to take the land back from the Gringos.

Deano1952 on January 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM

If they’re recycling their plans, I’m recycling my comments.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/mccain_on_immigration_bill/#comment-127414

Gekkobear says:
Tuesday, May 22, 2007 at 13:30

I like the triggers in this bill, that only come into effect once Congress agrees to secure the border.

Sure it doesn’t require the border to actually be secured, but hey, neither did the 1986 bill, and that one was the last immigration bill we’d ever need because we’d secure the border once it passed.

Much like the 1965 Immigration bill that secured the border and was the last one we’d ever need.

How could anyone not believe that this isn’t the last bill we’ll ever need… until 2029 of course when we have 35 million immigrants who really need amnesty because we didn’t really secure the border… but that’s 20 years out. Everyone knows “permanent” = 20 years or so.

But securing the border first, then giving amnesty, that isn’t an option. Because everyone knows we’ll never do anything to actually secure the border. We will however promise to do things to secure the border, so long as we can go back on those promises after the amnesty is in effect. Kind of like the 700 miles of “border fence” that were voted in.

Anyone seen any fence? Anyone believe 700 miles of fence will ever be built on the border?

I will glady secure the border Tuesday for Illegal Immigrant Amnesty today. – McCain/Wimpy … who can tell the difference?

That pretty much covers my opinion now; nothing changed in 5 years to change my mind here.

gekkobear on January 28, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Look up the word probationary and then try to understand the legal interpretation.

Can it be taken away (the legal status)? The answer is yes. As a matter of fact, that is what is why it is probationary and not permanent.

Marcus Traianus

Now look up the word “rube”. Then look in the mirror.

We need to star winning a larger share of the non-white vote than we currently are. Latinos just won’t suddenly flock to the Republican party, but it does give us more of a fair hearing with the population than we’re getting now. It is hard to talk about education reform when a group thinks that you want to deport their Nanas.

Illinidiva

Obama thanks you for your willful ignorance. Please be sure to let him know what other dem talking points you’ve fallen for so he will know they’re working.

xblade on January 28, 2013 at 3:52 PM

This deal is getting worse all the time.

BigGator5 on January 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM

I am altering the deal, pray I don’t alter it any further

The Notorious G.O.P on January 28, 2013 at 5:20 PM

Hey, don’t worry; there’s going to be a commission of politicos that will “certify” the border is secure before they let anyone start on the path to citizenship. Got it?

This political commission will surely find no pressure to “certify” the border security as the 11 million illegals will already be “legal” just waiting. And I’m sure any monetary penalties will be rigorously enforced, don’t you? Grandma and Grandpa who just showed up the week before in anticipation piggy backing on señor and his wife with six kids waiting to get on Medicaid and welfare.

This will be like the stimulus; they’ll lie to us and sooner or later well start hearing a out all the waste, lies, abuse, corruption, etc. that we all told them would happen. Just one more rung in the ladder down to the sewer of a country liberals are making.

artman1746 on January 28, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Say aloud the following inserting as many sheesh sounds as possshible:

My name ishhh ShJohn MeeeCshCain and I sheeshEndorsheee thisshee messhhaagesheesh…

Sherman1864 on January 29, 2013 at 12:32 AM