Quotes of the day

posted at 8:01 pm on January 27, 2013 by Allahpundit

The Senate proposal will probably include four main elements: border enforcement, employer enforcement, handling the future flow of legal immigration (including temporary agriculture workers and high-skilled engineers) and a pathway to citizenship for those who entered the nation illegally. Mr. Obama’s approach will largely echo his 2011 immigration “blueprint,” which he first outlined in a speech in El Paso, and calls for a pathway to citizenship for the more than 11 million illegal immigrants already in the country.

Though all members of the Senate group agree that some pathway to legal residency must be a part of the final proposal, they are still divided on what exactly that route should be. Republican lawmakers are urging that border security be tied to a pathway to citizenship and other requirements like having those who entered illegally go to the back of the line behind immigrants already waiting to enter the country legally, paying fines and back-taxes, and learning English.

“You’ve got border security, you’ve got employer verification and you’ve got a temporary worker program that addresses the magnet, so those three things have to go together to address operational control over your border,” said Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, one of the senators mapping out the legislation. “Then you go to the next big thing — the 12 million. How do you deal with the 12 million in a firm, fair way, realizing you can’t put them all in jail and they’re not all going to self-deport?”…

“It’s going far better than any of us expected,” Mr. Schumer said in an interview.

***

Boehner’s comments suggested action in the House is possible as well. In response to a question, Boehner said it is “time to deal” with changes to immigration law. Republican leaders, long opposed to legal changes that would allow more than 11 million undocumented immigrants to obtain legal residency, are increasingly shifting on the issue. They fear alienating a growing bloc of Latino voters whose opposition could force the party into a permanent minority status.

“There’s a bipartisan group of members who have been meeting for three or four years now,” Boehner told the Ripon Society. “Frankly, I think they basically have an agreement. I’ve not seen the agreement. I don’t know all the pitfalls. But it’s, in my view, the right group of members.”

“My theory was that if these folks could work this out, it’d be a big step in the right direction,” Boehner said, describing the group has one that includes both “hard heads” on the Republican side, as well advocates of immigration reform. “So I would think you’re likely to hear a lot more about immigration reform on the House side soon.”

***

The birthrate in this country has fallen below the level necessary to sustain the population at the very time that millions of Americans are leaving the workforce and expecting retirement benefits. The nation needs energetic young workers to spur the economy and support an ever-increasing social-welfare burden.

The only alternatives to increased immigration are mounting debts or reduced social services. A practicable system of work-based immigration for both high-skilled and low-skilled immigrants—a system that will include a path to citizenship—will help us meet workforce needs, prevent exportation of jobs to foreign countries and protect against the exploitation of workers…

Most immigrants come here to secure a better life for themselves and their families. They cherish the values of hard work, faith, family, enterprise and patriotism that have made this country great. Meanwhile, many who were lucky enough to have been born here have grown complacent or even disdainful of these values. America’s immigration system should provide opportunities for people who share the country’s core values to become citizens, thereby strengthening the nation as have countless immigrants have before them.

***

In fact the law-and-order argument, as we have pointed out a few times against immigration reform, has always been among the weakest objections. A system with coyote smugglers, forged paperwork, no enforcement and tax evasion is not law and order by any stretch of the imagination. Moreover, if Rubio is on a roll he might want to explain that the pejorative “amnesty” applies only when there is no consequence for failure to follow the law. That is not what Rubio (who envisions a fine, back taxes, possibly community service and no preferential treatment for citizenship) has been proposing — nor has most every other plan out there. That term is a red herring, indicative of a lazy argument…

It is interesting how a seemingly insoluble problem (e.g. weaning the GOP off immigration exclusionism) melts away if the timing, the messenger, the rollout and the substance of a solution are well considered. Just as the “never agree to any tax hike anywhere, anytime” faded with the realization that the GOP couldn’t stick to that without the White House and Senate, so too there is now a pathway for the GOP to rescue itself and address a major issue.

***

Comprehensive immigration reform could make millions of people suddenly eligible for assistance under President Obama’s healthcare law, assuming a final deal paves the way for undocumented immigrants to receive papers…

Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, said the legalization of undocumented people would benefit hospitals now burdened by uncompensated care.

If nothing changes, undocumented immigrants will be a major share of the uninsured, second only to those who are eligible but do not apply for coverage under the healthcare law in 2014, according to the Urban Institute…

“The bottom line is, these people would be contributing toward their own healthcare and not being dependent. They’d be paying taxes. I’d see that as a plus rather than a negative,” he said.

***

[Demanding comprehensive reform] is the same argument Jeb’s leftist allies in his amnesty crusade made during their push for Obamacare. Rather than undertake modest, incremental reforms — allowing the purchase of health insurance across state lines, for instance — the Democrats wanted “comprehensive health-care reform,” and we ended up with a 2,000-page doorstop law that we had to pass to learn what it contains. “Comprehensive immigration reform” might as well be called “Obamigration.”

The authors trot out “The nation needs energetic young workers to spur the economy and support an ever-increasing social-welfare burden.” Uh, immigrants are around twice as likely as the native-born to be poor and use welfare. Among Hispanic immigrants, who represent the lion’s share of the low-skilled workers the op-ed says we need “to support an ever-increasing social-welfare burden,” the majority are on welfare. This isn’t because they’re lazy spongers — fully one-third of immigrant households with a worker present are on welfare. The problem is that a post-industrial, knowledge-based economy doesn’t need additional low-skilled workers. As Milton Friedman famously said, “It’s just obvious you can’t have free immigration and a welfare state.”…

Bush and Bolick end with a fireworks finale of clichés. Immigrants “cherish the values of hard work, faith, family, enterprise and patriotism that have made this country great” and “replenish the American spirit.” While Americans, of course, “have grown complacent or even disdainful of these values.” Immigrants are people like any other, and experience the same temptations and dysfunctions of modernity — illegitimacy, family breakdown, decline of religion, and the rest. Jeb’s objectification of immigrants and antipathy toward the actually-existing American people is repellent but deplorably commonplace among immigration enthusiasts.

***

The success of the Republican Party in rural areas, exurbs and in the South has come at a cost. Socially conservative voters will resist changing their spots. When, and if, Republican leaders determine that the demands of these voters for “massive resistance” to abortion, contraception and immigration are futile, they will have to decide whether to cut them loose. No matter what happens, social conservatives are unlikely to become Democrats. It may not be too long before they find themselves with a choice of their own: withdraw from party politics or hold their noses and stick with the Republicans.

***

Two senators at the center of negotiations over comprehensive immigration reform, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.) said on Sunday that a pathway to citizenship is an essential component of a comprehensive reform bill.

“That has to be also part of it,” McCain told ABC News’ Martha Raddatz on “This Week” when asked whether a pathway to citizenship would be a component of reform. “There’s a new appreciation on both sides of the aisle including, maybe more importantly on the Republican side of the aisle, that we have to enact comprehensive immigration reform.”…

“I’m very pleased with the progress,” McCain said. “It’s not that much different from what we tried to do in 2007.”

Via R.S. McCain:

***

“Sitting in these meetings with three Democrats and three Republicans, working on this immigration issue has been as encouraging as the rules vote on Thursday night,” Durbin said on “Fox News Sunday”, referencing a bipartisan agreement in the Senate last week to tweak the filibuster rules.

“We are trying to work our way through some very difficult issues but we are committed to working on a comprehensive approach to finally in this country have an immigration law we can live with,” he added.

Click the image to watch.


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Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:33 AM

Many people have the Sparkoccus virus. I gave it to them with my cut and paster.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:35 AM

800 comments

John the Libertarian on January 28, 2013 at 2:35 AM

I bid you all a fond goodnight. It’s been a pleasure, as always. See you soon.

thatsafactjack on January 28, 2013 at 2:31 AM

Night Jack…

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:36 AM

I bid you all a fond goodnight. It’s been a pleasure, as always. See you soon.

thatsafactjack on January 28, 2013 at 2:31 AM

Night Jackie. :)

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:36 AM

So I guess what we have here is +car, +some fire, +some water, and +some you know. Those are the ingredients. I need to be putting this in the book . . .

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:30 AM

Growing up in Iowa we’d usually do that in pastures or country meadows – very rarely by lakes, most of which were patrolled by local sheriffs hoping to catch teenage boozers – so I’d say water isn’t really an essential ingredient.

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 2:37 AM

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:33 AM

Many people have the Sparkoccus virus. I gave it to them with my cut and paster.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:35 AM

the cut and paste? I thought that was what you invented the corroloterthingiemabob for…

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:37 AM

How come so many people are chatter bugs tonight?

BTW, SWalker taught me that eating bananas at night when there are mosquitoes around will make mosquitoes bite you.

So if you feed mosquitoes bananas they will bite themselves.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:39 AM

Do lakes produce really thick fog? Cause sleeping in the back of ones truck on the beach can leave you drench by morning from the fog rolling in… o_O

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:34 AM

*sigh*

It’s not a competition. Everything is not a competition, SWalker.

This is just like Beth. SPARK

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:39 AM

so I’d say water isn’t really an essential ingredient.

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 2:37 AM

*makes note*

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:40 AM

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:34 AM

I think the oceans are foggiest, then rivers, lakes, ponds, swimming pools, bath tubs and bird baths.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:41 AM

I’m a-cookin

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 2:43 AM

This is just like Beth. SPARK

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:39 AM

Oh lord, here we go again… You can’t quit, you already quit… And besides, we pawned your tambourine to buy pizza right after you quit… ;p

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:43 AM

But, somehow, you thought it would be practical to drive a pickup truck around fill with water?

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:28 AM

Well, you don’t exactly drive around . . .

Look, give me two weeks and I can show you all this. You’ll like some of it. Some of it will make you glad you were elsewhere, but all and all, it’s a positive body of knowledge. :)

And may I point out I was trying to get a waterbed into a van.

*yawn*

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:45 AM

Wow, over 800 comments. What is this, Insomnia Sunday?

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 2:45 AM

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:35 AM

the cut and paste? I thought that was what you invented the corroloterthingiemabob for…

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:37 AM

Oh you must mean the Spark IV numerical copulator that screws around with numbers.

The discombobulator decodes the results. Problem is I don’t know which one messes up the results. Could be both. But that is what the reverse discombobulator is for. To fix the mess the other two gadgets made.

I sell all three as a kit for fun and prophet because sometimes it predicts things.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:46 AM

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:34 AM

*sigh*

It’s not a competition. Everything is not a competition, SWalker.

This is just like Beth. SPARK

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:39 AM

Oh, and IF I was trying to compete, I would have told you about the year that I lived on my sailboat in the Harbor… Talk about a water bed… O_O

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:48 AM

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:43 AM

I think Axe resents you hiring that tambourine babe with the double Ds when he quit.

I don’t blame you for two reasons.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:49 AM

Would you say that’s mostly a province of increased Muslim immigration to Europe in the past few decades?

YES, AND THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT AND REASON THAT THE ISSUE WAS RAISED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

What about Poles or Czechs? They don’t really ghetto-ize to the same extent, do they?

In the UK?

There’s not really an easy analogy to Muslim immigration in Asian nations, since migration in that case has mostly come from places like India or the Philippines to places like Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

The entire point was that immigration changed the demographics of the UK and Labour did this intentionally. In the process, it abandoned its core constituency: Native, working-class voters and even union members.

Labour chose immigrants, especially minority immigrants, over their natural constituencies and are now realising that they made a very big mistake, as is evident by the speeches given in the last few years, including a big one by David Miliband, which I included in one of my links above.

Now, I suspect that South/Southeast Asian immigrants make their presence felt a lot less in Riyadh or Dubai than Muslims do in London, Birmingham, Paris, Frankfurt, etc.

Well, “Asian” immigrants are Muslim immigrants in the UK whether they are from African, the ME or Barbados, but that’s not the point. South/Southeast Asian immigrants, except for Muslims, tend to assimilate into British culture. This is especially true for those from India and former British colonies.

Point being, Muslims don’t tend to assimilate to the same extent as immigrants from other cultures and force immigrants from other cultures to assimilate more.

Quite true, but different cultures responds to this in different ways. In the UK, the Muslim culture is often given preference over British culture. As we’ve seen with the treatment of the Uighurs in China, I doubt that we’ll see the Communist Party or “traditional Chinese” (as opposed to Muslim Chinese – one group identifies more by its nationality even though it may speak different dialects, etc, while the other identifies by its religion) embracing multi-kulti to the extent that we see in the West.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:51 AM

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:48 AM

I say you know about fog then. The harbor has all the fog and it spreads to outlying areas.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:51 AM

I don’t blame you for two reasons.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:49 AM

lol — I keep erasing my comment to you because you keep making it obsolete with a subsequent comment.

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:52 AM

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:43 AM

I think Axe resents you hiring that tambourine babe with the double Ds when he quit.

I don’t blame you for two reasons.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:49 AM

Yea… I probably shouldn’t have told him we pawned his tambourine for pizza either… o_O

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:52 AM

And may I point out I was trying to get a waterbed into a van.

*yawn*

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:45 AM

A+ for effort. With a headboard and mirrored ceiling, right?

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:52 AM

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:48 AM

I say you know about fog then. The harbor has all the fog and it spreads to outlying areas.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:51 AM

Yes, the Harbor is very generous and sharing with it’s fog…

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:53 AM

Wow, over 800 comments. What is this, Insomnia Sunday?

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 2:45 AM

I’m wondering what causes these things, when people act in unison. There has to be a reason.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:53 AM

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:45 AM

A+ for effort. With a headboard and mirrored ceiling, right?

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:52 AM

I bet he was even planning to put a mini disco ball in it… ;p

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:54 AM

The reason why there is so much fog in harbors is because the light houses attract it.

That’s why they put a big light at the top to see thru the fog.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:55 AM

Axe wants himself some bluegill. ;-)

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 2:57 AM

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:52 AM

I bet he was even planning to put a mini disco ball in it… ;p

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 2:54 AM

Almost makes a feller think about working out and what not.

*spit*

Readin’ up er somethin.

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 2:59 AM

The reason why there is so much fog in harbors is because the light houses attract it.

That’s why they put a big light at the top to see thru the fog.

SparkPlug on January 28, 2013 at 2:55 AM

Hmmm, I always thought that the fog was attracted to the fog horn, but then like a bug drawn to a patio light at night, got confused and just kept circling the lighthouse until the sun came up a rescued it.

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 3:00 AM

So anyway, illegals and stuff. I’m against it or whatever.

I’m going to go dream about . . . well, either sex in a van, a busty tambourine player, or encyclopedias.

I’d bet encyclopedias, but it’s not for lack of trying.

*yawn*

*poof*

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 3:02 AM

Nite Axe

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 3:03 AM

OK, well my Earl Grey tea is finished and It’s time for me to turn back into a pumpkin or something… Later folks…

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 3:04 AM

Nite SWalker

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 3:05 AM

So anyway, illegals and stuff. I’m against it or whatever.

I’m going to go dream about . . . well, either sex in a van, a busty tambourine player, or encyclopedias.

I’d bet encyclopedias, but it’s not for lack of trying.

*yawn*

*poof*

Axe on January 28, 2013 at 3:02 AM

You’re obviously dictionaryphobic, or you would be dreaming about dictionaries like everyone else… ;p

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 3:05 AM

As we’ve seen with the treatment of the Uighurs in China, I doubt that we’ll see the Communist Party or “traditional Chinese” (as opposed to Muslim Chinese – one group identifies more by its nationality even though it may speak different dialects, etc, while the other identifies by its religion) embracing multi-kulti to the extent that we see in the West.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:51 AM

Would you consider the Hui “traditional Chinese”?

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 3:06 AM

Nite SWalker

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 3:05 AM

night tommy71…

SWalker on January 28, 2013 at 3:06 AM

I guess you never visited Xinjiang then?

Even large cities in the east of China vary considerably in local culture. Compare Beijing and Shanghai for example. Different local languages, different local cuisine, different local attitudes and temperaments.

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 2:32 AM

And, yet, the majority of the residents are of Asian descent, have Asian cultures, speak variants of Chinese, etc, which AGAIN was my original point. They have a shared heritage, common bonds, etc.

Go to London. Take a look around. See if the people look as British as they did even 20 years ago.

My ENTIRE point had to do with immigration and demographic changes, along with like people having more capacity to share than those of unlike histories, cultures, etc.

Look at America. Whites will be a minority in 2-3 decades. Do you ever think that those of Chinese descent will be a minority in China? I doubt it.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:10 AM

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 2:51 AM

Sorry, I must have missed the original posts that led to this discussion, but I think what you’re saying jibes perfectly with what I was.

The only thing about which we really differed was the extent to which you can talk about Chinese culture as a whole (although, the Cultural Revolution and everything that followed probably made that more possible than in prior years).

Also, I would never use the word “Asian” in the same sense that the UK papers do. That has to be one of my biggest gripes about the British.

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:13 AM

Its done. As per Politico, a deal has been reached on immigration reform. It will be unveiled today. And in all likelihood, will be law within a week.

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 3:13 AM

Look at America. Whites will be a minority in 2-3 decades. Do you ever think that those of Chinese descent will be a minority in China? I doubt it.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:10 AM

Something I find curious:

This really only seems to be a widespread phenomenon in the Anglophone world and, to differing degrees, the nations of northern Europe (with the exception of France, those speaking Germanic languages).

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:17 AM

I swear to God:

If the Republicans pass “comprehensive immigration” without first solving the causes of the problem (porous borders, required bio IDs for employment, enforcement of overstays) or, if millions of Mexicans are legalized and the most favored status they have in the current immigration laws aren’t rewritten – I will never vote for another national Republican.

I don’t care who they are or what they say. The arguments the republicans are now using show that they aren’t concerned about the country or its citizens. They are concerned about being re-elected.

Go ahead. Make my day.

These @ssholes told us in 1986 that they were going to fix the system and give amnesty to illegal aliens. The amnesty turned out to be for 40% more people than they estimated, and they never fixed the system. If they do it again, that’s it.

jaime on January 28, 2013 at 3:20 AM

Would you consider the Hui “traditional Chinese”?

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 3:06 AM

The issue is not whether a group is Muslim alone, DC. It is not a question of what I consider them to be, but rather how they identify themselves. There are groups, not only in China, but throughout the world, that consider themselves Muslims first, citizens of a country second. The other side of the coin is true, as well. Does the government consider them “traditional Chinese” – Chinese first or Muslims first?

I do know that there have been problems between the Chinese government and the Uighurs, which is why the Uighurs that were at Gitmo were sent to Bermuda rather than to China where they could face persecution.

I really don’t want to get into a discussion about the various ethnic groups in China. It wasn’t my point. My point had to do with the purposeful decision of Labour to change the demographics of the UK through immigration and to abandon its core constituencies for immigrants, especially minorities.

In the EU, immigration was also embraced because people just couldn’t be bothered to have the children necessary to populate their countries and provide the taxes necessary to fund the welfare states to which they believed they were entitled. As a result, they “imported their children” and, disastrously, many of the “children” decided that they, too, liked the welfare hammock, didn’t want to assimilate, and really didn’t want to work to keep older, wealthier, white people in 30 year state-funded retirements. So, now, they’ve exacerbated their problems.

Perhaps, I’m completely off base, but I haven’t seen any great indication from China, South Korea, or Japan to embrace immigration on the scale to which the UK and Europe did so that it resulted in dramatic demographic changes with many people of vastly different histories, ancestries, cultures and few commonalities.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:26 AM

This really only seems to be a widespread phenomenon in the Anglophone world and, to differing degrees, the nations of northern Europe (with the exception of France, those speaking Germanic languages).

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:17 AM

France has the largest Muslim population of any country in the EU.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:29 AM

And, yet, the majority of the residents are of Asian descent, have Asian cultures, speak variants of Chinese, etc, which AGAIN was my original point. They have a shared heritage, common bonds, etc.

And the majority of residents in the UK are still of European descent, and have European cultures, do they not? (Btw, the major so-called ‘dialects’ of Chinese are in fact distinct languages based on the criteria of mutual intelligibility. I believe it’s much more linguistically diverse than the modern UK.)

Look at America. Whites will be a minority in 2-3 decades. Do you ever think that those of Chinese descent will be a minority in China? I doubt it.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:10 AM

No, I very much doubt those of “Chinese” descent will ever be a minority in China, since there are over 1.3 billion of them already established. That said, I do certainly see a lot more non-Chinese people here today than 20 years ago.

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 3:34 AM

i just need to insert this o/t to show what ruthless propagandists we Face in the left-stream agti-prop media theater…ok, the Gramscian Media…Diane Sawyer ‘interviewing’ Giffords. It was obvious from the first that giffords was a prop and that Sawyer had rehearsed with her and her husband to get the ‘enough’ sound byte…precious sound byte from a prop.

so finally Althouse nails it

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2013/01/gabby-giffords-ever-smiling-struggles.html

the reason it is hard is that our oppo is soulless liars and skilled in the art of deception and use of the street theater of astro-turf and props

so there.

p.s. China is tough. Demographics (M/F) is a problem. Aging is a problem

r keller on January 28, 2013 at 3:39 AM

I really don’t want to get into a discussion about the various ethnic groups in China. It wasn’t my point. My point had to do with the purposeful decision of Labour to change the demographics of the UK through immigration and to abandon its core constituencies for immigrants, especially minorities.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:26 AM

Fair enough, I was originally just taking exception to your characterization of Asian countries as having been mostly isolated from the world throughout history. That’s certainly not been the case.

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 3:40 AM

The only thing about which we really differed was the extent to which you can talk about Chinese culture as a whole (although, the Cultural Revolution and everything that followed probably made that more possible than in prior years).

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:13 AM

My only point is that there are certain characteristics that are shared by most Chinese. And, when I talked about China being a sort of closed society, it has been in many ways at many times throughout history. Yes, it has seen Western missionaries, European traders, etc, but it was still fundamentally Asian in nature.

Also, I would never use the word “Asian” in the same sense that the UK papers do. That has to be one of my biggest gripes about the British.

I don’t either. It’s stupid and just another way for the press to avoid being called Islamophobic. Frankly, and I suppose that it is a result of my British heritage, I don’t even think of the Indians as “Asians.” They’ve always been Indians to us, but you have to understand that geography doesn’t necessarily define everything in the UK and Europe. For example, if you notice, I usually refer to the UK and Europe separately. Most Americans consider Britain to be part of Europe. Russia has been another of those weird things. For a long period of history, it was considered part of Europe (the Russian Court spoke French). Then, the Soviets came and the Cold War and the USSR was just the Communist Bloc with Soviet satellites, the Eastern Bloc, and pets in Africa, South America, Cuba, etc. Now that there is no longer a Soviet system, the Eastern Bloc is once again part of Europe, but Russia is in so zone of her own – a mixture of just plain Russia with European and Asian elements thrown in.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:41 AM

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:29 AM

I was including France in the group of nations with large immigrant populations.

My observation was that it’s odd that, excluding France, these nations all seem to be historically Germanic-speaking nations (the Anglophone world, Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Scandinavia). Notice that, with the exception of France, the Romance-and Slavic-speaking nations don’t see the same levels of immigration.

I don’t know much about immigration policies throughout the EU – for instance how southern, central, and eastern European nations compare with the aforementioned group. But it seems that, policies being equal, the UK and northern Europe have a greater draw for immigrants. I guess it probably has more to do with higher levels of economic development and more mature welfare states than with linguistics.

I’d be curious to see what you think.

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:41 AM

Fair enough, I was originally just taking exception to your characterization of Asian countries as having been mostly isolated from the world throughout history. That’s certainly not been the case.

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 3:40 AM

I didn’t mean that they were isolated from the world throughout history although they certainly were at times. They were and are fairly homogenous societies demographically with many shared histories, ancestries, and cultural traditions. A lot of this, I would think, may have something to do with the fact that they put a premium on their own values and were closed off to Western influences at times and still are in some ways, which isn’t such a bad thing considering how much the West has phucked itself up.

:-)

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:47 AM

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:41 AM

You’re mostly correct although countries like Greece, Italy, and Spain have been attracting great numbers of immigrants over the past few decades.

A few years ago, Spain offered (go off memory) 2 years pay and a one-way airline ticket to immigrants if they would go home and not come back.

The EU travel and work requirements have really screwed the northern countries. Any EU resident can travel and take up residence for work…or not. Many ME refugees are coming into Italy and Greece, which is partly responsible for the rise of Golden Dawn, the Neo-Nazi/Fascist Party.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:53 AM

OK, it’s almost 4. I’ve GOT to go to sleep now. Talk tomorrow. ‘Nite all.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:56 AM

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:53 AM

Just wait for Turkey’s candidacy to be accepted. Then the floodgates will really open.

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 3:58 AM

I didn’t mean that they were isolated from the world throughout history although they certainly were at times. They were and are fairly homogenous societies demographically with many shared histories, ancestries, and cultural traditions. A lot of this, I would think, may have something to do with the fact that they put a premium on their own values and were closed off to Western influences at times and still are in some ways, which isn’t such a bad thing considering how much the West has phucked itself up.

:-)

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:47 AM

I’ll still politely disagree with this part :)

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 4:00 AM

OK, it’s almost 4. I’ve GOT to go to sleep now. Talk tomorrow. ‘Nite all.

Resist We Much on January 28, 2013 at 3:56 AM

G’night. (It’s a shame y’all go to sleep in the afternoon…)

DarkCurrent on January 28, 2013 at 4:01 AM

Should hit the hay, too. Good night, whoever is still out there.

steebo77 on January 28, 2013 at 4:01 AM

McCain is a loser.

Sherman1864 on January 28, 2013 at 5:08 AM

fixed..:)

Dire Straits on January 27, 2013 at 8:33 PM

morning…..sorry for the delay…

Electrongod on January 27, 2013 at 8:33 PM

wow…yes, when i lived in durham a few years back…

Morning y’all

Amnesty here we come, aren’t you excited!!!!
/

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 5:51 AM

**Alert **

Israeli military deploys Iron Dome missile defense batteries in country’s north amid Syria worries – @Jersualem_Post

44 mins ago from http://www.jpost.com by editor

Iron Dome batteries moved North as IDF brass increasingly concerned over Syrian civil war, Assad’s chemical arsenal.
==========================================================

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=301149

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 5:53 AM


Speaking of Immigration,go figure(sarc)…………….

Illinois becomes 4th state to allow driver’s licenses for undocumented immigrants – @Reuters

9 hours ago from news.yahoo.com by editor
=============================================

http://news.yahoo.com/illinois-becomes-fourth-state-allow-drivers-licenses-undocumented-011755726.html

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 5:56 AM

thanks mccain and flake for nothing

cripe…

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:01 AM

Morning y’all

Amnesty here we come, aren’t you excited!!!!
/

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 5:51 AM

cmsinaz:Good Morning CMS,heres the Immigration Twitter:)
=========================================================

Results for #immigration

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23immigration&src=hash

The Miami Herald ‏@MiamiHerald

BREAKING NEWS: Senators reach deal on #immigration to be announced later Monday. Details: http://hrld.us/X38YYq

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:02 AM

thanks mccain and flake for nothing

cripe…

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:01 AM

cmsinaz:

Mc Cain Mutiny of 08′,Capt’n Queeg…

…jus build the dang fence..(sarc):)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:04 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 5:56 AM

ugharoo…

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:06 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:02 AM

*sigh*

they think the border will be secured first….keep dreaming there bubbas….

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:04 AM

i really don’t like him

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:07 AM

Transcript: Bipartisan Framework for Comprehensive Immigration Reform
Jan 28 2013
************

From Senators Chuck Schumer, John McCain, Dick Durbin, Lindsey Graham, Robert Menendez, Marco Rubio, Michael Bennet, and Jeff Flake

Introduction:

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/transcript-bipartisan-framework-comprehensive-immigration-reform/story?id=18330912

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:08 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:02 AM

*sigh*

they think the border will be secured first….keep dreaming there bubbas….

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:04 AM

i really don’t like him

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:07 AM

cmsinaz:

Agreed on both points,I’m wondering,after the PR Campaign on Immigration,which Party,will get an Increase/Decrease in Voters!!:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:12 AM

RE:ABC Transcript Immigration!

Transcript: Bipartisan Framework for Comprehensive Immigration Reform
Jan. 28, 2013
*************

From Senators Chuck Schumer, John McCain, Dick Durbin, Lindsey Graham, Robert Menendez, Marco Rubio, Michael Bennet, and Jeff Flake

Introduction:

We recognize that our immigration system is broken. And while border security has improved significantly over the last two Administrations, we still don’t have a functioning immigration system. This has created a situation where up to 11 million undocumented immigrants are living in the shadows. Our legislation acknowledges these realities by finally committing the resources needed to secure the border, modernize and streamline our current legal immigration system, while creating a tough but fair legalization program for individuals who are currently here. We will ensure that this is a successful permanent reform to our immigration system that will not need to be revisited.

Four Basic Legislative Pillars:
*******************************

1. Create a tough but fair path to citizenship for unauthorized immigrants currently living in the United States that is contingent upon securing our borders and tracking whether legal immigrants have left the country when required;

2. Reform our legal immigration system to better recognize the importance of characteristics that will help build the American economy and strengthen American families;

3. Create an effective employment verification system that will prevent identity theft and end the hiring of future unauthorized workers; and,

4. Establish an improved process for admitting future workers to serve our nation’s workforce needs, while simultaneously protecting all workers.

1. Creating a Path to Citizenship for Unauthorized Immigrants Already Here that is Contingent Upon Securing the Border and Combating Visa Overstays

- Our legislation will provide a tough, fair, and practical roadmap to address the status of unauthorized immigrants in the United States that is contingent upon our success in securing our borders and addressing visa overstays.

- To fulfill the basic governmental function of securing our borders, we will continue the increased efforts of the Border Patrol by providing them with the latest technology, infrastructure, and personnel needed to prevent, detect, and apprehend every unauthorized entrant.

- Additionally, our legislation will increase the number of unmanned aerial vehicles and surveillance equipment, improve radio interoperability and increase the number of agents at and between ports of entry. The purpose is to substantially lower the number of successful illegal border crossings while continuing to facilitate commerce.

- We will strengthen prohibitions against racial profiling and inappropriate use of force, enhance the training of border patrol agents, increase oversight, and create a mechanism to ensure a meaningful opportunity for border communities to share input, including critiques.

- Our legislation will require the completion of an entry-exit system that tracks whether all persons entering the United States on temporary visas via airports and seaports have left the country as required by law.

- We recognize that Americans living along the Southwest border are key to recognizing and understanding when the border is truly secure. Our legislation will create a commission comprised of governors, attorneys general, and community leaders living along the Southwest border to monitor the progress of securing our border and to make a recommendation regarding when the bill’s security measures outlined in the legislation are completed.

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/transcript-bipartisan-framework-comprehensive-immigration-reform/story?id=18330912

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:16 AM

***Alert *****

AQ on the Run,accept SCROTCHED EARTH left in there wake…..

….F’n Boinkers!!

Islamist fighters fleeing Mali’s Timbuktu set fire to library containing priceless ancient manuscripts, mayor says – @Reuters

15 mins ago by editor

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:18 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:12 AM

i’m sure the lsm will continue with their demonization that ‘all gop hate latinos’ and they are just pandering, yada yada yada

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:19 AM

OH SH*T………**************PETA RED ALERT ************(snark)

Um,did they strap a board to the rocket(sarc).

Report: Iran launches monkey into space on board a rocket, local media says – @AFP

4 mins ago by editor

https://twitter.com/AFP
========================

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:26 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:12 AM

i’m sure the lsm will continue with their demonization that ‘all gop hate latinos’ and they are just pandering, yada yada yada

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:19 AM

cmsinaz:Exactly,ahem,GOP need to act,more Compassionent then Libs,
*Rolls Eyes*!:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:30 AM

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:30 AM

indeed

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:32 AM

**Alert ***

Morsi Rips a page from the Obama Administration(sarc)

Egypt’s cabinet approves draft law giving army right to arrest civilians, assist police, cabinet source says – @Reuters

10 mins ago by editor

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:36 AM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……….

President Obama and Vice President Biden to meet with police chiefs and sheriffs at the White House – Statement via @NBCNews

2 mins ago by editor

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 6:37 AM

Mornin’, Bitter Clingers! Did y’ know that Obama is just like you and he? He hunts…skeet.
Just like the Clampetts. My take.

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:43 AM

“me”

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:46 AM

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:43 AM

good one KJ
let them eat cake

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:54 AM

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 6:54 AM

Thank you, ma’am! Hey…who’s that 2,000 plus post thread down at the bottom of this column about?

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:58 AM

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:58 AM

mmmm
mmmm
mmmm

cmsinaz on January 28, 2013 at 7:04 AM

Mornin’, Bitter Clingers! Did y’ know that Obama is just like you and he? He hunts…skeet.
Just like the Clampetts. My take.

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:43 AM

kingsjester:Good Morning,fellow Absolutist(sarc):)

Results for absolutists

https://twitter.com/search/absolutists

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 7:14 AM

**Alert ****

NBC News ‏@NBCNews

Obama campaign gives database of millions of supporters to new advocacy group http://nbcnews.to/X7Ak1d

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/28/16726913-obama-campaign-gives-database-of-millions-of-supporters-to-new-advocacy-group?lite

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 7:18 AM

Amnesty-the GOP’s comprehensive path to the dustbin of history.Reality check-do you really think this will bring back all those voters that didn’t show up in November-you know,the demographic that makes up your base? Or at least used to make up your base.Now you don’t have one!Jindal got it right-the stupid party.

redware on January 28, 2013 at 7:23 AM

Mornin’, Bitter Clingers! Did y’ know that Obama is just like you and he? He hunts…skeet.
Just like the Clampetts. My take.
kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:43 AM

Frightening, KJ.

Cleombrotus on January 28, 2013 at 7:23 AM

Thank you, ma’am! Hey…who’s that 2,000 plus post thread down at the bottom of this column about?
kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 6:58 AM

Over the last few days a handful of people were posting comments back and forth, trying to get the comment count up very high as a way to give the impression of high interest level in a particular person.

They got mad when the thread wasn’t moved to the “top picks” column. Then they started saying that HotAir editors were Sarah Palin-hating squishes who were doing The Establishment’s dirty business in trying to supposedly suppress a Paljn thread.

You should’ve seen it. There are some seriously delusional people who come on here.

bluegill on January 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM

Oooopsy in Iran?

hmmmmmmmmm….

Limerick on January 28, 2013 at 7:37 AM

You should’ve seen it. There are some seriously delusional people who come on here.

bluegill on January 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM

Really? Just a few? You don’t say.

By the way, Captain Queeg…did you find those strawberries, yet?

kingsjester on January 28, 2013 at 7:37 AM

You should’ve seen it. There are some seriously delusional people who come on here.

bluegill on January 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM

LOL thank you for this morning’s first belly laugh, you obsessive, self-oblivious twit!

Anti-Control on January 28, 2013 at 7:38 AM

bluegill on January 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM

When a thread reaches over 200 comments here you know it’s completely off topic nonsense and chat.
WOW McCain’s picture got almost 900 comments overnight! He must be resting up for 2016 because he sure is popular.

Marcus on January 28, 2013 at 7:41 AM

*unpoof*

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 7:46 AM

bluegill on January 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM
When a thread reaches over 200 comments here you know it’s completely off topic nonsense and chat.
WOW McCain’s picture got almost 900 comments overnight! He must be resting up for 2016 because he sure is popular.
Marcus on January 28, 2013 at 7:41 AM

That made me LOL.

bluegill on January 28, 2013 at 7:49 AM

Comprehensive Immigration Reform deal is done. The pubs and dems have come to an understanding. They have the bipartisan tag. Better it’ll be law within a week.

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 7:50 AM

Comprehensive Immigration Reform deal is done. The pubs and dems have come to an understanding. They have the bipartisan tag. Bet it’ll be law within a week.

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 7:51 AM

It’s not that much different than what you tried to do in 2007 Juan Queeg?

You know what you win, I am not voting for another Republican until I get to vote in Mexico like Mexico gets to vote in the US Senator.

Burn it down.

Spend you political donation money helping La Raza, the GOP and democrats spend your tax dollars doing so.

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 7:52 AM

Comprehensive Immigration Reform deal is done. The pubs and dems have come to an understanding. They have the bipartisan tag. Bet it’ll be law within a week.

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 7:51 AM

so is the GOP….

harlekwin15 on January 28, 2013 at 7:52 AM

Is canopfor around?

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 7:55 AM

Is canopfor around?

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 7:55 AM

tommy71:**You Rang**:)

canopfor on January 28, 2013 at 7:56 AM

Hi there, canopfor. Good day to you. Just want to inform you that a few commentors were perturbed by your absence earlier in this QOTD. Guess they missed you. You have quite a few friends here. :-)

tommy71 on January 28, 2013 at 8:00 AM

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