Quotes of the day

posted at 10:31 pm on January 24, 2013 by Allahpundit

Statement by the President on the Opening of Combat Units to Women

Today, by moving to open more military positions—including ground combat units—to women, our armed forces have taken another historic step toward harnessing the talents and skills of all our citizens. This milestone reflects the courageous and patriotic service of women through more than two centuries of American history and the indispensable role of women in today’s military. Many have made the ultimate sacrifice, including more than 150 women who have given their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan—patriots whose sacrifices show that valor knows no gender.

Earlier today I called Secretary of Defense Panetta to express my strong support for this decision, which will strengthen our military, enhance our readiness, and be another step toward fulfilling our nation’s founding ideals of fairness and equality.

***

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, in lifting a ban on women serving in combat, said women have become integral to the military’s success and have shown they are willing to fight and die alongside their male counterparts.

“The time has come for our policies to recognize that reality,” Panetta said Thursday at a Pentagon news conference with Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Panetta said that not all women will be able to meet the qualifications to be a combat soldier.

“But everyone is entitled to a chance,” he said.

***

If you want to know just how far the debate over women serving in combat situations has come, look no further than Sen. Marco Rubio, a top contender for the GOP’s 2016 presidential nomination and a leading voice in the modern conservative movement.

For Rubio, the question is a no-brainer. “Women already are in combat to begin with. We should be putting our best soldiers forward regardless of their gender,” Rubio spokesman Alex Conant said Thursday evening.

***

For the next several months, and particularly over the summer, the services will reevaluate the standards they have in place for these combat positions, particularly the physical-fitness standards. A host of Defense Department officials swore to reporters on Thursday morning at the Pentagon that they’ll neither lower physical-fitness standards nor establish different standards by gender, something they say would violate federal law, anyway.

So the likely outcome of those tests is to find which jobs will remain excluded to women. An example a senior Marine official cited involved a loader on a tank crew. Loading a tank round requires a certain degree of upper body strength. You need to hoist a 50-odd pound, 120-mm round, removing it from its rack and loading it into the breach — here’s a video demonstration — all in a space that doesn’t really allow a lot of lower body strength to supplement. When the Army and Marine Corps explore job openings for women, that’s what they’ll test — whether a soldier or marine can do that, repeatedly, in relevant and realistic conditions, regardless of gender. (Although Dempsey mentioned one of his tank gunners when he was a division commander in Iraq was named Amanda.)

“For us it comes down to, it’s the physical standard and can they do it,” the Marine official said.

***

There is a problem with fitness that affects the military, but it doesn’t reflect on women alone. It reflects on Americans in general, says Barnett, who as a member of a group called “Mission: Readiness” signed a report on the dangers posed by obesity to U.S. security.

“We are too unfit to fight, is the term. We are definitely an unfit society,” Archer added in a telephone interview. “They need basic training to get ready for basic training. This is true of both males and females,” Archer said…

“When we study history, we find that women have coped with every aspect of war. Women have demonstrated the emotional courage to withstand the brutality of war, including during lengthy imprisonment as POWs under very harsh conditions in the Pacific and in European work and death camps; in very dangerous and stressful resistance fighting; in the face of rape and mutilation; and at the moments of their deaths,” Fenner writes.

***

In the US military, a woman’s service is not recognized, professionally or financially, the same way as a man’s. Because women have not been eligible for “combat role” positions—even though they were shooting and being shot at—they were denied access to certain career opportunities. The plaintiffs in a lawsuit the American Civil Liberties Union filed against the Department of Defense over the exclusion of women from combat roles offer great examples of this discrimination. Two of the plaintiffs in that case have received Purple Hearts, and two have received combat medals. One of the plaintiffs, Air Force Major Mary Jennings Hegar, a helicopter pilot, was shot down in Afghanistan attempting to evacuate wounded US service members. She engaged in a firefight with enemy forces and was shot before escaping. Women are already “getting their limbs blown off in war.” Panetta’s announcement will ensure they are recognized for it…

Most men cannot meet the necessary mental and physical requirements for service in combat. Any woman who can meet those standards should not be denied the opportunity because of an arbitrary gender restriction. Moreover, removing the restriction is not about celebrating militarism. The military has long been a path for historically disfavored groups to claim the full benefits of citizenship. Justifying discrimination against blacks, gays and lesbians, or women becomes much more difficult when they’re giving their lives for their country.

***

Most people seem to believe that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have merely involved driving out of a forward operating base, patrolling the streets, maybe getting in a quick firefight, and then returning to the forward operating base and its separate shower facilities and chow hall. The reality of modern infantry combat, at least the portion I saw, bore little resemblance to this sanitized view…

When we did reach Baghdad, we were in shambles. We had not showered in well over a month and our chemical protective suits were covered in a mixture of filth and dried blood. We were told to strip and place our suits in pits to be burned immediately. My unit stood there in a walled-in compound in Baghdad, naked, sores dotted all over our bodies, feet peeling, watching our suits burn. Later, they lined us up naked and washed us off with pressure washers…

Despite the professionalism of Marines, it would be distracting and potentially traumatizing to be forced to be naked in front of the opposite sex, particularly when your body has been ravaged by lack of hygiene. In the reverse, it would be painful to witness a member of the opposite sex in such an uncomfortable and awkward position. Combat effectiveness is based in large part on unit cohesion. The relationships among members of a unit can be irreparably harmed by forcing them to violate societal norms.

***

But is it a good thing? As a woman and a U.S. Marine Corps veteran, I’m not so sure. To those who have been agitating for this step, I say this: be careful what you wish for

Many women will find out in the long haul that combat entails unprecedented physical stress. As it is now, many women have greater duress on their bodies than men with the physical requirements and are discharged at higher rates from the duress on knees, hips, ankles, and joints. That reality will only be exacerbated in combat. Will physical performance standards be adjusted (that is, made less stringent) to accommodate women?…

It goes beyond physical limitations—the object of military culture is to defeat the enemy and kill anything that is a threat. There is a constant mode of aggression; I’ve seen too many women who enlisted and completed training, but soon learned they simply couldn’t face that dark reality on a daily basis.

***

Women have been in support roles. Driving supply trucks or flying helicopters, accompanying patrols as interpreters — some of them have come under fire, some of them have undoubtedly fired back, and a few may have engaged in fire-fights spurred by the need to defend themselves. But getting shot at is not “combat” — at least not the way the official military defines it. The Department of Defense defines a combat job as one in which a soldier’s primary duty is to seek out, engage and neutralize the enemy. This is a distinction that should be recognized. Special credit should be given. Operating in a combat zone requires bravery but seeking out and “engaging” an enemy requires even more bravery. Sorry, the U.S. military is — well, used to be — a meritocracy. It makes distinctions.

Now, (I think we can all stop pretending that there aren’t sex differences here) men like this seeking-out-the-enemy thing. Infantry jobs, jobs involving combat, have to be requested and young men will continue to enthusiastically request these positions. Will women? I doubt they will in great numbers. I think they will continue to swell the ranks of intelligence, management, medical, and logistical jobs, continue to do these jobs admirably, but avoid the combat roles. If so, the impact of this historic policy change may be insignificant. It may go down as more of Obama’s gestural politics.

***

Yet honoring sacrifice does not necessarily mean acceding to demands for social justice, and the real question should not be whether opening combat roles leads to greater job opportunities for women but whether placing women in infantry companies makes those units deadlier (or at least no less deadly) and more proficient in their core role — engaging and destroying the enemy in close combat.

Cemetery Ridge in Gettysburg, Pa., Bastogne in Belgium, and the Chosin Reservoir in Korea rank among the most hellish and brutal environments ever created by man. The idea that women in the ranks could have repelled Picket’s Charge, or the XLVII Panzer Corps, or the People’s Volunteer Army’s 9th Army just as well as men is more hope than anything else. I pray those hopes won’t ever be tested in equivalent environments, but if history is any guide, the test will come, and no amount of social justice can replace steely courage, superhuman endurance, and ironclad bonds of brotherhood.

Women and men are not interchangeable biological units. There will be consequences to this change, both expected and unexpected. Is “social justice” worth this very deadly risk?

***

Feminists routinely deny Eros — except when it suits them to exploit their sexual power. Only someone deliberately blind to human reality could maintain that putting men and women in close quarters 24 hours a day will not produce a proliferation of sex, thus introducing all the irrational passions (and resulting favoritism) of physical attraction into an organization that should be exclusively devoted to the mission of combat preparedness. Reported “sexual assaults” will skyrocket, and of course it will only be the men who are at fault. Any consensual behavior leading up to the “assault” — getting in bed with your fellow grunt drunk and taking off your clothes, for example — will be ignored, since in the realm of sexual responsibility, women remain perpetual victims, at the mercy of all-powerful men. Expect a windfall to the gender-sensitivity-training industry, which will be called in both before and after the entry of women into combat units to eradicate endemic male sexism.

Even if Leon Panetta intends to keep female fighting units sex-segregated, that distinction won’t last. Feminists will complain that female-only units stigmatize women.

Chivalry is one of the great civilizing forces, taming men and introducing social graces and nuance to what would otherwise be a brutish social world. It is already on life support, but sex-integrated combat units will provide the coup de grâce.

***

It’s predictable that members of Congress—including many who privately know better—will be intimidated by the forces of gender correctness from arguing against women in harness. It’s predictable that the media will unfairly attack critics of women in combat units as failing to respect the achievements and sacrifices of our servicewomen who have served and are serving in harm’s way. It’s predictable that few in our political and cultural elites will speak up for biology, for common sense, or for decency or honor.

This is therefore a moment of opportunity. The political leader who takes on this fight will be mocked and scorned–almost as much as was Ronald Reagan in 1977, when he challenged the bipartisan elite consensus on the Panama Canal Treaty. As it happens, I suspect this fight will prove more winnable in Congress than the fight against the Panama Canal Treaty. But whatever happens in Congress, will any political leader step up, as Reagan once did, to fight the good fight?

***

***



Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6

Has bazil9 poofed, or has she gone unicorn riding. :-)

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:08 AM

Dire Straits:The Queen,awesome pic,thanks Dire:)

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:07 AM

The Queen? That wasn’t Shirley Temple?

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

Hey, Bmore, please send me a reply if you received the communication. :)

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:04 AM

Oh Yeah. That works. You know my weakness.

So I will exempt you from the next curfew that I will have to impose for one reason or another. Oh of course for safety reasons.

We will be able to stay up late and watch the stars.

SparkPlug on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:05 AM

Not today. I’ve been lurking.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:06 AM

KCB:

Well,the last time was on the Hopey Inaugrual Open thread,
and the comment was about saying,that Changeys second term
turns out like Licolns,and a couple of Lefty trolls had a
meltdown,then the comment dissappeared!

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

LoLz..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM

SparkPlug on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

:-D

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM

John the Libertarian on January 24, 2013 at 11:58 PM

You and I should both know by now, they are just going to lower the bar. There is no other way for it to happen. Tacit support for a bad policy is a bad decision on his part. He is playing it up for the P.C. crowd. Men will die needlessly because of the social engineering crap. This will bite him in the ass. It reeks. Still not one good reason put forth by anyone for this decision. It will cost a fortune and there will be no women that can keep up without lowering the standard. Even if that were not the case and you managed to get one or two. Its not worth the damage to the unit. The enemy doesn’t care about fairness. You and I can disagree on this one. Rubio is out for me. Done. He is fastly becoming Mr. Establishment. Go along get along type. I have had this nonsense up to here,no more.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:11 AM

SparkPlug on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

You’re lucky she likes bad boys.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Hey, Bmore, please send me a reply if you received the communication. :)

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

I hit reply, give me just a second.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:12 AM

,then the comment dissappeared!

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM

Oh… That could be bad.

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:12 AM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………..

Report: International adoptions by US parents fell 7 percent in 2012 – @Reuters

3 mins ago from http://www.chicagotribune.com by editor
====================================================

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-adoptions-internationalbre90o06f-20130124,0,3945877.story

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:12 AM

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM

That’s probably the last time I saw him too.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:11 AM

Ken, I like the quiet type too ;-)

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

KCB on January 24, 2013 at 11:54 PM

Yep. All the hotties are right here. Best place to surf for sure.

SparkPlug on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

I see your point..And I get Rubio’s point..I just don’t think the public gets the consequences that could arise..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:07 AM

Well, liberals are children. And sometimes you gotta let go of the bike and let the child wipe out so that they learn. I don’t know what will happen, I guess we’ll find out. But we’ve got to start treating everyone with equal opportunity — not equal outcomes, equal opportunity — so that we can’t be thought of as Neanderthals.

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

Oh… That could be bad.

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:12 AM

I hope not!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:14 AM

Ken, I like the quiet type too ;-)

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

..speechless…

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

We can’t let the liberals win the gender, race or class wars. If I were a football coach, I’d say the same thing. Sure, your daughter can try out, and if she makes the cut, then great.

John the Libertarian on January 24, 2013 at 11:58 PM

Unfortunately sir, the training staff are being “advised” that a sufficient number make the cut. Pat Schroeder, Barbara Boxer and Janet Reno are advisors.

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Jackalope..got meds? lol
Join our loopy crew. :)

bazil9 on January 24, 2013 at 11:37 PM

You know it.

Jackalope on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:09 AM

See if that worked.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Pat Schroeder, Barbara Boxer and Janet Reno are advisors.

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

That is not good..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:17 AM

One of my fav poems by Shelley. Hope you all like it too!!

I bring fresh showers for the thirsting flowers,
From the seas and the streams;
I bear light shade for the leaves when laid
In their noon-day dreams.
From my wings are shaken the dews that waken
The sweet buds every one,
When rocked to rest on their mother’s breast,
As she dances about the Sun.
I wield the flail of the lashing hail,
And whiten the green plains under,
And then again I dissolve it in rain,
And laugh as I pass in thunder.

I sift the snow on the mountains below,
And their great pines groan aghast;
And all the night ’tis my pillow white,
While I sleep in the arms of the blast.
Sublime on the towers of my skiey bowers,
Lightning my pilot sits;
In a cavern under is fettered the thunder,
It struggles and howls at fits;
Over Earth and Ocean, with gentle motion,
This pilot is guiding me,
Lured by the love of the genii that move
In the depths of the purple sea;
Over the rills, and the crags, and the hills,
Over the lakes and the plains,
Wherever he dream, under mountain or stream,
The Spirit he loves remains;
And I all the while bask in Heaven’s blue smile,
Whilst he is dissolving in rains.

The sanguine Sunrise, with his meteor eyes,
And his burning plumes outspread,
Leaps on the back of my sailing rack,
When the morning star shines dead;
As on the jag of a mountain crag,
Which an earthquake rocks and swings,
An eagle alit one moment may sit
In the light of its golden wings.
And when Sunset may breathe, from the lit Sea beneath,
Its ardours of rest and of love,
And the crimson pall of eve may fall
From the depth of Heaven above,
With wings folded I rest, on mine äery nest,
As still as a brooding dove.

That orbed maiden with white fire laden
Whom mortals call the Moon,
Glides glimmering o’er my fleece-like floor
By the midnight breezes strewn;
And wherever the beat of her unseen feet,
Which only the angels hear,
May have broken the woof, of my tent’s thin roof,
The stars peep behind her, and peer;
And I laugh to see them whirl and flee,
Like a swarm of golden bees,
When I widen the rent in my wind-built tent,
Till the calm rivers, lakes, and seas,
Like strips of the sky fallen through me on high,
Are each paved with the moon and these.

I bind the Sun’s throne with a burning zone
And the Moon’s with a girdle of pearl;
The volcanos are dim and the stars reel and swim
When the whirlwinds my banner unfurl.
From cape to cape, with a bridge-like shape,
Over a torrent sea,
Sunbeam-proof, I hang like a roof –
The mountains its columns be!
The triumphal arch, through which I march
With hurricane, fire, and snow,
When the Powers of the Air, are chained to my chair,
Is the million-coloured Bow;
The sphere-fire above its soft colours wove
While the moist Earth was laughing below.

I am the daughter of Earth and Water,
And the nursling of the Sky;
I pass through the pores, of the ocean and shores;
I change, but I cannot die –
For after the rain, when with never a stain
The pavilion of Heaven is bare,
And the winds and sunbeams, with their convex gleams,
Build up the blue dome of Air –
I silently laugh at my own cenotaph
And out of the caverns of rain,
Like a child from the womb, live a ghost from the tomb,
I arise, and unbuild it again. –

Percy Bysshe Shelley

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:17 AM

Unfortunately sir, the training staff are being “advised” that a sufficient number make the cut. Pat Schroeder, Barbara Boxer and Janet Reno are advisors.

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Then they are sending these women to their deaths. Sorry, but combat and firefighting and frontlines are proving grounds. If they aren’t qualified, they’ll die. Liberals always learn the hard way, and they never learn.

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:18 AM

From now on, the grunts would literally grunt, I guess.

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:19 AM

Name

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:19 AM

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

We agree in that the Liberals are children..Sometimes we have to protect the children from themselves..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:01 AM

That famous Lady sure looks a lot like Shirley Temple… O_O

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:02 AM

SWalker:

D8mmitt,you sent me on a Wild Google Goose Chase,
it sure dies look like her—————:)

Ever seen The Queen change a car tyre? Unseen pictures of Her Majesty serving in World War II
*******************************

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149307/Ever-seen-The-Queen-change-car-tyre-Unseen-pictures-Her-Majesty-serving-World-War-II.html

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Liberals always learn the hard way, and they never learn.

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:18 AM

+ 100..Hear..Hear..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

Then they are sending these women to their deaths. Sorry, but combat and firefighting and frontlines are proving grounds. If they aren’t qualified, they’ll die. Liberals always learn the hard way, and they never learn.

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:18 AM

The American Military is the most fierce and terrifying military in the history of the human race, a situation which gives the liberal Marxist treasonous bastages no end of pain and grief, so obviously they must destroy it.

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Nx0SV3GVI

Quiet Riot

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Wow.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:22 AM

It will cost a fortune and there will be no women that can keep up without lowering the standard.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:11 AM

I don’t think it will cost that much. Let the women try. I say let them try out for the NFL, too. But as I was saying to arnold, if Boxer and Reno lower the bar, then they’re sending these women to their deaths.

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:22 AM

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:10 AM

That’s probably the last time I saw him too.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:13 AM

KCB:Ya,I dunno:)

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:23 AM

The American Military is the most fierce and terrifying military in the history of the human race, a situation which gives the liberal Marxist treasonous bastages no end of pain and grief, so obviously they must destroy it.

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM

Which is why I hate those SOBs! Bastards!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:23 AM

Yeah boy we’ll teach those leftist, we’ll get our best killed senselessly that’ll show em. Of course they won’t learn so we’ll just do abunch of senseless killing. What!?!?

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:24 AM

Valentines Day coming up. Socially stressful for the bachelor boys.

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:24 AM

See if that worked.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:15 AM

yup, and I have responded.

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:24 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:19 AM

Great song ken!!

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:25 AM

Just gonna have to disagree on this nonsense. Still not one good damned reason for it over four threads. Rubio is toast in my book.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:25 AM

Quiet Riot

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:21 AM

That aint Quiet Riot… this is Quiet Riot… (And you know I KNOW… )

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

yup, and I have responded.

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:24 AM

Yay! Okay with that I’m out. Mission accomplished. ; )

Good Night All.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Le crap,thats does,not (it sure dies).

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:27 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

YES!! I know it ;-)…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:27 AM

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Good night B!! Sleep good!

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:28 AM

Goodnight Bmore.

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:28 AM

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:25 AM

Agree with you… He’s turned…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:28 AM

Good Night All.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Bmore:Sweet Dreams:)

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

Yeah boy we’ll teach those leftist, we’ll get our best killed senselessly that’ll show em. Of course they won’t learn so we’ll just do abunch of senseless killing. What!?!?

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:24 AM

Half dozen women hung naked from a bridge or overpass. Youtube videos of the brutality that led to their gruesome deaths. Americans have no stomach for that. Our enemies know that, WHICH IS WHY THEY WILL DO THAT!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

That is not good..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:17 AM

Evening Dire. i was going to lead off with the Twilight Zone theme but give me a few to find something—Warren Zevon’s “My shits effed Up” might be too harsh but who knows.

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

@KCB bingo

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:30 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:17 AM

or maybe this?

Go fetch to me a pint o wine,
And fill it in a silver tassie;
That I may drink, before I go,
A service to my bonie lassie:
The boat rocks at the Pier o’ Leith,
Fu’ loud the wind blaws frae the Ferry,
The ship rides by the Berwick-law,
And I maun leave my bonie Mary.

The trumpets sound, the banners fly,
The glittering spears are ranked ready,
The shouts o’ war are heard afar,
The battle closes deep and bloody.
It’s not the roar o’ sea or shore,
Wad make me langer wish to tarry;
Nor shouts o’ war that’s heard afar-
It’s leaving thee, my bonie Mary!
Robert Burns

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:30 AM

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

I have posted worse Arnie… I bow my head now for having done so…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:30 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

Yesss!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Otay,I`m next,

Nite Everyone,——————————————–:)

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Good Night!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:30 AM

Ahhhh yes… Beautiful sad poem…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Good night B!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Good night Can!! Sleep well!!

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Nite canop, ya sinner ya. ;-)

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Yeah boy we’ll teach those leftist, we’ll get our best killed senselessly that’ll show em. Of course they won’t learn so we’ll just do abunch of senseless killing. What!?!?

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:24 AM

The numbers are going to be small, even the female officer in the Marines predicts this. Women just don’t have the blood lust that men have. But some GI Janes/Demi Moores will go for it. So set the bar really high. Some women may be able to pull their weight. Good for them. There’s plenty of men who can’t hack it, either.

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Yay! Okay with that I’m out. Mission accomplished. ; )

Good Night All.

Bmore on January 25, 2013 at 12:26 AM

may all be well, and may the fish o’ the pond be fightin’ have a wonderful evening.

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:33 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

Ditto Bingo!!

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:33 AM

Half dozen women hung naked from a bridge or overpass. Youtube videos of the brutality that led to their gruesome deaths. Americans have no stomach for that. Our enemies know that, WHICH IS WHY THEY WILL DO THAT!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

Check this out. How long ago was it that a female LTC. pitched a fit—and rightly so, that she could not drive in Saudi Arabia? PC arab love was OK then and continues as far as I know but now we are going to add more trouble to the mix?

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:33 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Still here!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:34 AM

Half dozen women hung naked from a bridge or overpass. Youtube videos of the brutality that led to their gruesome deaths. Americans have no stomach for that. Our enemies know that, WHICH IS WHY THEY WILL DO THAT!

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

Then the experiment is over, yes?

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:34 AM

Nite canop, ya sinner ya. ;-)

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

tommy71:Crap,not the Hockey thingy,haha,Night:)

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:35 AM

I have posted worse Arnie… I bow my head now for having done so…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:30 AM

When you feel better you’re gonna get a spanking. Now could give me a hint as to what was worse? :)

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:35 AM

When in Rome (Saudi Arabia) do as they do… and women in the Mil were obliged to not drive but also cover themselves when out and about… I also believe they had to have a male escort… don’t quote me on that part tho…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:36 AM

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:29 AM

lolz..I hear you..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:36 AM

*poof*

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:36 AM

Sounds right..

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:36 AM

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:35 AM

It was a Lily Allen song F.U. :-O

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:37 AM

This guy plays guitar.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:37 AM

canopfor on January 25, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Later..:)

Dire Straits on January 25, 2013 at 12:37 AM

Ahhhh yes… Beautiful sad poem…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:32 AM

Just because I’m in a Burns mood… my father was a Scotsman, and frequently regaled us with these.

Oppress’d with grief, oppress’d with care,
A burden more than I can bear,
I set me down and sigh:
O life! thou art a galling load,
Along a rough, a weary road,
To wretches such as I!
Dim backward as I cast my view,
What sick’ning scenes appear!
What sorrows yet may pierce me thro’,
Too justly I may fear!
Still caring, despairing,
Must be my bitter doom;
My woes here shall close ne’er
But with the closing tomb!

Happy, ye sons of busy life,
Who, equal to the bustling strife,
No other view regard!
Ev’n when the wished end’s denied,
Yet while the busy means are plied,
They bring their own reward:
Whilst I, a hope-abandon’d wight,
Unfitted with an aim,
Meet ev’ry sad returning night,
And joyless morn the same;
You, bustling, and justling,
Forget each grief and pain;
I, listless, yet restless,
Find every prospect vain.

How blest the Solitary’s lot,
Who, all-forgetting, all-forgot,
Within his humble cell,
The cavern wild with tangling roots,
Sits o’er his newly-gather’d fruits,
Beside his crystal well!
Or, haply, to his ev’ning thought,
By unfrequented stream,
The ways of men are distant brought,
A faint collected dream:
While praising, and raising
His thoughts to heav’n on high,
As wand’ring, meand’ring,
He views the solemn sky.

Than I, no lonely hermit plac’d
Where never human footstep trac’d,
Less fit to play the part;
The lucky moment to improve,
And just to stop, and just to move,
With self-respecting art:
But ah! those pleasures, loves, and joys,
Which I too keenly taste,
The Solitary can despise,
Can want, and yet be blest!
He needs not, he heeds not,
Or human love or hate,
Whilst I here must cry here,
At perfidy ingrate!

Oh! enviable, early days,
When dancing thoughtless pleasure’s maze,
To care, to guilt unknown!
How ill exchang’d for riper times,
To feel the follies, or the crimes
Of others, or my own !
Ye tiny elves that guiltless sport
Like linnets in the bush,
Ye little know the ills ye court,
When manhood is your wish!
The losses, the crosses,
That active man engage
The fears all, the tears all,
Of dim-declining age!

Robert Burns

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:38 AM

Arnie some troll was pissing me off so I posted that song to it…

I was very bad… :-(

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:38 AM

@Scrumpy You’re right. I’ve been there. A woman should have either her father, brother or husband with her when she steps out in public.

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:39 AM

This guy plays guitar.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:37 AM

Meh… a piker compared to me… ;p

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:40 AM

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:38 AM

Robert Burns was required reading when I was in school… oh eons ago lol…

Thank you posting!!

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:41 AM

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:39 AM

Or at least a pistol she knows how to use.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:42 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:41 AM

In a strange way, I found those poems to be appropriate for tonight… not sure why :)

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM

But those Saudi women are way randy. I felt stalked. Thats what happens when you suppress women within your culture.

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:40 AM

that’s what I hear. You posted a link to something you were working on sometime ago. It was pretty good, if I remember correctly.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Then the experiment is over, yes?

John the Libertarian on January 25, 2013 at 12:34 AM

No, then the men will be required to protect the women, carry the extra load, and risk their lives doing it, even if that comprises their lives, or the mission.

The left isn’t going to be put off by a few deaths and they will use their deaths the same way they used the death of those children at Sandy Point in a gun-free zone to prove the exact opposite of what is true.

sharrukin on January 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM

tommy71 on January 25, 2013 at 12:39 AM

You *poofed* but didn’t *unpoof*

Oh yeah, I remember tho back home in the UK, when I lived in Portsmouth, we had arabs galore there, males, went to school there to learn the oil biz, they dropped all pretext of their beliefs…

But back then I knew nothing about them or their koran…

They were flash with the cash and pretty much grabbed up all the pretty single gals… drinking and carousing, partying dancing…

Islamic beliefs went out the window…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:45 AM

This guy plays guitar.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:46 AM

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM

I am glad you did! Hope it brought back fond memories {hugs}…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:46 AM

Arnie some troll was pissing me off so I posted that song to it…

I was very bad… :-(

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:38 AM

Zevon’s? As far as troll repellent there are much better songs. If I ever notice someone troubling you I got your six.

Nevermind, Sec. Pendejo and Curious Obama think you are tough enough to go through the wall on your own.

arnold ziffel on January 25, 2013 at 12:47 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:40 AM

that’s what I hear. You posted a link to something you were working on sometime ago. It was pretty good, if I remember correctly.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:44 AM

ROTFLMAO… Once upon a time I might have been pretty good, these days, I’m just old and tired…

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:48 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:48 AM

Am I senile, or is my recollection good?

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:50 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:46 AM

I also hope you enjoyed the cat poem earlier. Not only to they give me solice, but I think they are actually relevant to the discussion.

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Sorry I missed you Jackie.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:53 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:48 AM

Am I senile, or is my recollection good?

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:50 AM

Well, your recollection is just fine…. Bit I’m not touching the senility question… ;p

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:54 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:46 AM

Yes he can and so can this guy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnSpVsefuhU

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:55 AM

SWalker on January 25, 2013 at 12:54 AM

I thought so. Something you were working on. Whip it out.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:56 AM

uncommon sense on January 25, 2013 at 12:52 AM

Oh absolutely I did!!

Thank you…

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:57 AM

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:55 AM

Listening now. He is a beast.

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:57 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:56 AM

Say what?? No you di’n’nt… lmao ;-)

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:58 AM

KCB on January 25, 2013 at 12:57 AM

Oh yeah he is!! Hard to choose from!

Scrumpy on January 25, 2013 at 12:59 AM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6