Salon: Yeah, abortion takes a life. So what?

posted at 9:31 pm on January 23, 2013 by Mary Katharine Ham

I had an odd moment today reading this Salon piece because within it is a paragraph or two I could have written and probably have said a dozen times:

I have friends who have referred to their abortions in terms of “scraping out a bunch of cells” and then a few years later were exultant over the pregnancies that they unhesitatingly described in terms of “the baby” and “this kid.” I know women who have been relieved at their abortions and grieved over their miscarriages. Why can’t we agree that how they felt about their pregnancies was vastly different, but that it’s pretty silly to pretend that what was growing inside of them wasn’t the same? Fetuses aren’t selective like that. They don’t qualify as human life only if they’re intended to be born.

When we try to act like a pregnancy doesn’t involve human life, we wind up drawing stupid semantic lines in the sand: first trimester abortion vs. second trimester vs. late term, dancing around the issue trying to decide if there’s a single magic moment when a fetus becomes a person. Are you human only when you’re born? Only when you’re viable outside of the womb? Are you less of a human life when you look like a tadpole than when you can suck on your thumb?

This was the exact thought process that led me to the exact opposite position. I, too, noticed a distinction between how women approached an in-utero child when they wanted the child and how they felt about it when the pregnancy was unexpected and unwanted. Logically, it made no sense to me that the mother’s disposition should change the biological disposition of the baby. Therefore, it made no sense that it should change the ethics of the situation.

But Mary Elizabeth Williams goes a whole different direction, encouraging the pro-choice side to embrace the possibility that life begins at conception, which she imagines will allow them to gain some kind of lost rhetorical ground:

Of all the diabolically clever moves the anti-choice lobby has ever pulled, surely one of the greatest has been its consistent co-opting of the word “life.” Life! Who wants to argue with that? Who wants be on the side of … not-life? That’s why the language of those who support abortion has for so long been carefully couched in other terms. While opponents of abortion eagerly describe themselves as “pro-life,” the rest of us have had to scramble around with not nearly as big-ticket words like “choice” and “reproductive freedom.” The “life” conversation is often too thorny to even broach. Yet I know that throughout my own pregnancies, I never wavered for a moment in the belief that I was carrying a human life inside of me. I believe that’s what a fetus is: a human life. And that doesn’t make me one iota less solidly pro-choice.

On one hand, I truly appreciate her honesty— both for its boldness in its literal brutality and in the same way I wish gun-control advocates would just say they want to ban all guns if they want to ban guns. Then at least we’re having an honest conversation. There’s a reason the pro-choice movement must euphemize itself to within an inch of its life— because many people don’t want to be on the side of not-life. In any other article, I’d assume “not-life” is a term meant to mock what pro-lifers believe of pro-choicers, but Williams offers such a clear argument on behalf of an actual not-life position, I’m not sure. At any rate, Williams dispenses with the euphemism, and gives us a look at a very different kind of pro-choice message— like an Honest Movie Trailer for left-leaning politicians. “So, abortion ends a life. So what? There are a lot of lives that aren’t very important.”

Speaking of drawing “stupid semantic lines” and “trying to decide if there’s a single magic moment when a fetus becomes a person,” doesn’t this position just require Williams to draw even more untenable lines where a life becomes important enough to save? That’s the argument Katrina Trinko makes:

By this same logic, isn’t infanticide also fine and dandy? After all, if we’re talking about autonomy, kids aren’t exactly independent as soon as they are born. No infant can take care of themselves. And even later on in childhood, children rely heavily on the adults in their life to provide shelter, food, and emotional support. What about kids and adults who become disabled in life? What about quadriplegics? They’re not going to be able to take care of themselves. Is it okay if we just off the lot of them? Heck, what about needy friends who seem to be falling apart unless we talk to them regularly and console them? Okay to just shoot a couple of them so that we don’t have the burden? Should we ship the grandparents that spent all their money and are now financially dependent on us to the local executioner?

Yes, if the fetus is a life — and a human being — and not a clump of cells, that makes a huge difference. No one would ask a woman to respect the rights of a clump of cells. But it is valid to ask her, difficult as it is to have an unwanted pregnancy, to realize that the death of the child — the child who was totally innocent and has done nothing except be conceived — is not an appropriate way to handle this.

So. What? I’ll hand it over to you guys.

Salon‘s on a roll today.

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So what?

“What difference does it make?”

I am learning how to be a Lib.

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Salon: Yeah, abortion takes a life. So what?

Wow..there it is..

‘We can still like, party and $hit….’

BigWyo on January 23, 2013 at 9:34 PM

…can’t!

KOOLAID2 on January 23, 2013 at 9:34 PM

I was waiting for a post on this.

When the idea of liberalism first came around, it was founded on the basis that all men are created equal. This was the basis for liberals being in favor of ending slavery, of civil rights, etc. In their support of abortion, as this article shows, this is no longer the case. Liberals are no longer liberals. There is no idea more illiberal than the idea that some lives have more worth than others. I suppose part of this is that liberalism has been divorced from religion and god, when God and religion were both central in founding the principles that liberalism for so long stood on.

vegconservative on January 23, 2013 at 9:35 PM

The liberal mentality on display: life is disposable for convenience.

Hey Good Lt, did you guest-write this article?

MelonCollie on January 23, 2013 at 9:36 PM

You know…

Being a Lib is easy..

Just love yourself and fake the rest…

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:36 PM

This is what is so creepy about these leftist arguments. They lead to a place that most decent people ever want to be.

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 9:36 PM

I believe that’s what a fetus is: a human life. And that doesn’t make me one iota less solidly pro-choice.

THAT is one scary line!!!

rebuzz on January 23, 2013 at 9:38 PM


Are you less of a human life when you look like a tadpole than when you can suck on your thumb

…I’ve seen them sucking their thumb when they were little more than tadpoles

KOOLAID2 on January 23, 2013 at 9:38 PM

MKH – love ya, but regarding

When we try to act like a pregnancy doesn’t involve human life, we wind up drawing stupid semantic lines in the sand:

you mean like, uh, referring to the BABY as a fetus ? What’s with Latin anyway ? Why not use the Russian word for baby ? Perhaps Swahilli ? pick one. But what it means is BABY, God told us that as Elizabeth, in her old age, became pregnant, and the BABY leaped.

williampeck1958 on January 23, 2013 at 9:38 PM

As long as this is expanded to allow one to make the “private decision” to kill anyone they want, it’s cool. Let’s have intellectual honest.

Why is it OK to murder an infant and not OK to execute a bad guy?

Moving the debate into a celebration of infant murder seems to me to properly display the reality (and stench.)

CrazyGene on January 23, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Yeah…Salon was the pinnacle of intelligent writing today…

http://twitchy.com/2013/01/23/salon-piece-says-give-truthers-a-chance-twitterers-offer-up-other-salonpitches/

Salon: 9/11 Trutherism Is Better Than Other Conspiracy Theories, Because It All Flows From One Unassailable Scientific Fact:
Fire.
Can’t.
Melt.
Steel. – Ace
http://minx.cc/?post=336837

workingclass artist on January 23, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Here you see it folks… The Left is totally emboldened after the last elections and they are not hiding their evil anymore… In a way it is good for our side on the long run…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

And I would put the life of a mother over the life of a fetus every single time — even if I still need to acknowledge my conviction that the fetus is indeed a life. A life worth sacrificing.

A life worth sacrificing.

For the literal LIFE of a woman, or for her convenience?

blatantblue on January 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

MKH obviously wants to enslave women.

myiq2xu on January 23, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Why is it OK to murder an infant and not OK to execute a bad guy?

CrazyGene on January 23, 2013 at 9:39 PM

Vision..

One is in hiding…

The other is in full display..

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:42 PM

Salon: Yeah, abortion takes a life. So what?

Wow..there it is..

‘We can still like, party and $hit….’

BigWyo on January 23, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Yeah…I mean Eugenics saves everybody money…

workingclass artist on January 23, 2013 at 9:42 PM

A life worth sacrificing.

A human sacrifice, on the alter of progressivism?

Your religion sucks, dude.

You know what you call people who sacrifice babies to their gods?

Savages.

Rebar on January 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM

I was waiting for a post on this.

When the idea of liberalism first came around, it was founded on the basis that all men are created equal. This was the basis for liberals being in favor of ending slavery, of civil rights, etc. In their support of abortion, as this article shows, this is no longer the case. Liberals are no longer liberals. There is no idea more illiberal than the idea that some lives have more worth than others. I suppose part of this is that liberalism has been divorced from religion and god, when God and religion were both central in founding the principles that liberalism for so long stood on.

vegconservative on January 23, 2013 at 9:35 PM

The classical liberal movement had its name stolen by the socialist/fascist progressives around the turn of the 20th century. The old liberals became known from that point on as the conservatives.

Scribbler on January 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Today i bought a little pink teddy bear and a pink ribbon for it. Tomorrow, before I head to work, I’m going to drop it off @ a memorial that’s being set-up in front of one of the local Planned Barrenhoods . This PP is the killing center(the other one is administrative/’counseling’)and Thursdays are murder days.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 9:44 PM

i stand with rubio on this issue.
look how well he’s doing protecting our borders.

renalin on January 23, 2013 at 9:45 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 9:44 PM

I wish I was there to cheer you on..

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:46 PM

So what?

“What difference does it make?”

I am learning how to be a Lib.

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:34 PM

.
I just knew someone was going to beat me to that … too obvious !

listens2glenn on January 23, 2013 at 9:46 PM

A life worth sacrificing.

A human sacrifice, on the alter of progressivism?

Your religion sucks, dude.

You know what you call people who sacrifice babies to their gods?

Pagan Savages.

Rebar on January 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM

fify

workingclass artist on January 23, 2013 at 9:46 PM

“So, abortion ends a life. So what? There are a lot of lives that aren’t very important.”

And there it is in all of its ugliness.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 9:47 PM

And there it is in all of its ugliness.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Libs must have a super natural power..

The power to determine the worthiness of an unborn…

And then they have the Government to execute….

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:49 PM

You know…

Being a Lib is easy..

Just love worship yourself and fake the rest…

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:36 PM

Free Stuff!

workingclass artist on January 23, 2013 at 9:49 PM

I wish I was there to cheer you on..

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:46 PM

It’s being put up by local churches(both Protestant and Catholic) and, I hope that our very tiny orthodox Jewish community is in on it as well. There’s a crisis pregnancy center not 50 feet from PP.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 9:50 PM

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Well they certainly are a piece of work my friend. A failed philosophy of death. Yet I am the clinger.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 9:51 PM

“There are a lot of lives that aren’t very important.”

The little dear. Could she have said it any better, revealed the deeper impulse to social control through eugenics shot through her ideological death cult?

rrpjr on January 23, 2013 at 9:51 PM

And there it is in all of its ugliness.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Libs must have a super natural power..

The power to determine the worthiness of an unborn…

And then they have the Government to execute….

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:49 PM

Old People smell bad…are cranky, expensive and there are too many of them…

next

workingclass artist on January 23, 2013 at 9:51 PM

And if they are willing to end a life that never did them a wrong thing, how well do you think a conservative, or an enemy of the state will fare?

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Yeah, so I killed a baby….so what? You sicken me.

sybilll on January 23, 2013 at 9:52 PM

What does a society strive to be when it treats life so capriciously?

tom daschle concerned on January 23, 2013 at 9:52 PM

There’s a crisis pregnancy center not 50 feet from PP.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 9:50 PM

I am proud of you..

God bless

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Yes, everyone must draw a line somewhere that has murder on one side and a benign act on the other. Pro-lifers draw it based on science and logic: Abortion kills an innocent human being, so it is wrong (except to save the life of the mother, which is consistent with the pro-life ethic).

It is amusing that she thinks that our choice of “life” as a slogan was just clever marketing. Abortion = death.

eMatters on January 23, 2013 at 9:52 PM

While opponents of abortion eagerly describe themselves as “pro-life,” the rest of us have had to scramble around with not nearly as big-ticket words like “choice” and “reproductive freedom.” The “life” conversation is often too thorny to even broach. Yet I know that throughout my own pregnancies, I never wavered for a moment in the belief that I was carrying a human life inside of me. I believe that’s what a fetus is: a human life. And that doesn’t make me one iota less solidly pro-choice.

Mary Elizabeth Williams

.
There you have it . . . . . . . . . if your existence is inconvenient to your mother, M.E.Williams says it’s okay for her to “euthanize” you up to . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . what age would that be, Mary ?

listens2glenn on January 23, 2013 at 9:54 PM

Definite evidence(just the tip of the iceberg of course) that liberals, in fact, don’t care about human life, unless it fits their agenda. And they still don’t care. Just using it to push an ideology. After a mass shooting their ire immediately focuses on guns. Not much is said about the actual killer. They just use the situation to try to ban guns. Thank you dead people. So what, if there were no shootings anymore they’d suddenly not mind people having guns?

Dongemaharu on January 23, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Salon: Yeah, abortion takes a life. So what?

****************** NUTS *********************************!

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM

@MelissaTweets: So fascinating. Obama’s reign has emboldened libs to say what they really mean. “So what, I’m killing my baby. Big whup.”

idesign on January 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Here you see it folks… The Left is totally emboldened after the last elections and they are not hiding their evil anymore… In a way it is good for our side on the long run…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

~~~~~~~

This is exactly what I thought when I read this…emboldened, and eventually, enough decent people will be sickened by them…in the meantime, though, we are in for rough times…

ellifint on January 23, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Typical thought process from a mind consumed by evil.

The way she breezily makes the statement that the fetus has no rights outside the mother’s blessing of such is what minds who do not see life as a creation and blessing hold.

The only thing different from this author and Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy is that their evil was manifest in physical acts.

I’ve changed some of her words here:

“A Jew can be a human life without having the same rights as a German Officer in my SS. But I’m the boss. Their lives and what is right for my circumstances and goals automatically trump the rights of the Jew”

Always.

See how that works?

Opposite Day on January 23, 2013 at 9:58 PM

Yeah, so I killed a baby….so what? You sicken me.

sybilll on January 23, 2013 at 9:52 PM

Salon: Yeah, abortion takes a life. So what?

****************** NUTS *********************************!

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Would MLK be proud today?

“It’s not the color of you skin..

It’s that you have skin..”

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Another 4000 or so, “so whats” just today. Just in the US.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

*sigh*

22044 on January 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM

So the pro baby killing side is going to actual embrace the idea of calling it baby killing? George Orwell would be proud.

bgibbs1000 on January 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Here you see it folks… The Left is totally emboldened after the last elections and they are not hiding their evil anymore… In a way it is good for our side on the long run…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

I see this point. But I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that it is better for our side. If “our side” cannot engage them in any form over any issue or utterance (which it has largely proved unable or unwilling to do), then revealing themselves may only normalize the evil.

rrpjr on January 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM

Old and Busted: Suffer the little children to come unto me.
New Hotness: Let the children suffer. So what?

Christien on January 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM

I have said for years the only way to finally decide the question of abortion in this country is for the left to be intellectually honest about the fact that they are pro-abortion regardless of whether or not the fetus is human life. Until then all else is just smoke and mirrors and society will never really choose, and the issue will fester, poisoning political discourse on many other tangentially related issues. Look what it has done to the stakes involved in appointing judges. Ridiculous.

txmomof6 on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

@MelissaTweets: So fascinating. Obama’s reign has emboldened libs to say what they really mean. “So what, I’m killing my baby. Big whup.”

idesign on January 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM

idesign:From this twitter????–:)
==================================

Results for absolutists
***********************

https://twitter.com/search/absolutists

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

And these are the same folks who tell us we need to ban guns because…”if it saves even one life“.

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Being a Lib is easy..

Just love yourself and fake the rest…

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:36 PM

is that the new stealthy way to spell it now?

tommy-t on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Odumbo = Hitler.

Well the left at least is all for what Hitler did. Britain murders thousands of old people every year by withholding food and water. Not just the old either all ages. They decide someone loved ones life is not worth the cost of keeping them alive and just off them.

Now we see the argument for doing that and more here in the US.

Odumbo and Odumbo Care so much more than what you thought.

Steveangell on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

This is an old path, traveled many times by those who consider themselves the enlightened elite. The very same rationale that slices and dices human life into subsets and classes and types, by any criterion that suits their convenience, is the exact process by which the “Liberal” intellectuals of the 20th century became the depraved monsters of Dachau and the Killing Fields.
Once you make that fatal step into defining subgroups of human beings, whether by race or gender or developmental stage, you cannot easily resist the next step of assigning different values to each one. And once you pass that point, you are helpless to stop the inevitable decision to dispose of one or more of the less valued classes to suit some convenience or crisis.
Like the German and Russian socialists of the early 20th century, you can rationalize the extinction of entire races. Or the American liberals who rounded up an entire race, stripped them of all their property and interned them in Montana and Colorado. The examples are all over the historical record and the details may vary but the rationale is always the same.
And it’s always the enlightened intellectual elite that provides the rationale, and then stands in wide-eyed wonder in the middle of the ashes when it’s all over.

Lew on January 23, 2013 at 10:04 PM

So it’s OK to take a life!

So the next guy who goes nuts with a gun and shoots a bunch of kids should just say, “Hey guys, I was just aborting them. Pro-choice, man!”

Oh wait, that’s monstrous.

And the next woman who loads her kids into a car and drives it into the bay, then walks out of the water to the waiting throng of press and police on the beach and says “Oh yeah. Well, I was just aborting them. Pro-choice!”

Oh wait, that’s monstrous.

But identifying a life starts at conception, then saying it’s OK to kill that life so long as it hasn’t crossed the birth canal, then walking around with signs saying “I’m proud I aborted the life inside me!”

That’s not monstrous. That’s heroic!

Salon: We’re proud to be baby murderers. Get over it, you right-wing Nazis!

Nethicus on January 23, 2013 at 10:05 PM

The classical liberal movement had its name stolen by the socialist/fascist progressives around the turn of the 20th century. The old liberals became known from that point on as the conservatives.

Scribbler on January 23, 2013 at 9:43 PM

Classical liberals are more like modern libertarians than conservatives, as conservatism has a long history as its own philosophy. Modern conservatism is more like “Liberal Republicanism,” which is the midpoint our founders stood at between pure Lockean Liberalism and Plutonian Republicanism.

vegconservative on January 23, 2013 at 10:05 PM

So the pro baby killing side is going to actual embrace the idea of calling it baby killing? George Orwell would be proud.

bgibbs1000 on January 23, 2013 at 10:00 PM

.
Also Josef Mengele, Pol Pot, Jack Kevorkian . . . . . . . . . . . . .

listens2glenn on January 23, 2013 at 10:06 PM

is that the new stealthy way to spell it now?

tommy-t on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

I saw Hillary testify today..

Fake promotes emotion…

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 10:07 PM

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

If abortions were performed with AR’s the left would have quite a quandary.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:07 PM

idesign:From this twitter????–:)
==================================

Results for absolutists
***********************

https://twitter.com/search/absolutists

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Unfortunitly, it’s not my twitter handle…

idesign on January 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM

I Love Mary Katherine Ham…….

I would love to marry her and do her bidding in all things…..

williamg on January 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM

If abortions were performed with AR’s the left would have quite a quandary.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:07 PM

You underestimate their capacity for hypocrisy.

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM

You underestimate their capacity for hypocrisy.

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Good point.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Jane Roe’s clump of cells would be about 40 years old now had nature been allowed to take its course. That clump of cells might even have had several of its own clumps of cells by now, making Jane Roe a grand-something or other.

txmomof6 on January 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM

williamg on January 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM

I thought she got married?

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM

Nethicus on January 23, 2013 at 10:05 PM

.
I had to reread that a couple of times . . . . . . . .

Your last line should have been inside a “quote box”, so as make the reader understand that you’re not quoting yourself, there.

listens2glenn on January 23, 2013 at 10:12 PM

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:07 PM

Maybe that is the question we should ask Bmore, of all the libs who post here. It would seem that they shouldn’t have an issue how its done if they don’t care if its done as long as a woman decides.

MarshFox on January 23, 2013 at 10:12 PM

This is exactly what I thought when I read this…emboldened, and eventually, enough decent people will be sickened by them…in the meantime, though, we are in for rough times…

ellifint on January 23, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Very true…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 10:13 PM

I believe that’s what a fetus is: a human life. And that doesn’t make me one iota less solidly pro-choice.

And that, sweetie, is what makes ya sick beyond reach. You know in your heart it’s a kid, but ya flushed it anyway. You’re A-OK with killing your own child. By your own definition. You’re just tired of running a line of crap to cover it. That’s murder, honey-pie. Pro-choice, to choose to murder. Thanks for admitting what we already know.

I’m telling ya, the masks are coming off. The Vampires are coming out and selling the benefits of sucking blood.

Saltyron on January 23, 2013 at 10:14 PM

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

.
If abortions were performed with AR’s the left would have quite a quandary.

Bmore
on January 23, 2013 at 10:07 PM

.
That would make a great line in a political cartoon, wouldn’t it?

listens2glenn on January 23, 2013 at 10:14 PM

MKH – you want raw, check out what Camille Paglia wrote on the subject.

I ask the choice folks to at least have the intellectual honesty and courage to call it what it is. The cowards who hide behind clump of cells are liars.

John the Libertarian on January 23, 2013 at 10:15 PM

MarshFox on January 23, 2013 at 10:12 PM

Per sharrukins point. They probably wouldn’t mind however it was done. Just so they never have to see it or hear or being done. They are after all cowards.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:15 PM

And it’s always the enlightened intellectual elite that provides the rationale, and then stands in wide-eyed wonder in the middle of the ashes when it’s all over.

Lew on January 23, 2013 at 10:04 PM

I agree but I will add the following:

First they think that they “intellectual elite” but in reality they vast majority of them have very much an average IQ and their education is rather meaningless crap in liberal arts…

Second when they stands in the middle of the ashes when it is all over they stand utterly defeated…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 10:16 PM

txmomof6 on January 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM

They WERE allowed to take their course, The baby in question was put up for adoption in the end. He/she was born the same year that I was-1970.

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM

John the Libertarian on January 23, 2013 at 10:15 PM

Over at the New Yorker or where?

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM

MKH – you want raw, check out what Camille Paglia wrote on the subject.

John the Libertarian on January 23, 2013 at 10:15 PM

Do you have a link?

rrpjr on January 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Here you see it folks… The Left is totally emboldened after the last elections and they are not hiding their evil anymore… In a way it is good for our side on the long run…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 9:41 PM

Totally agree with you on this. Don’t forget that Liberals represent about 20% of the electorate. The mushy middle voted for a smooth talking Obama.

When you expose them to this type of rhetoric, more often than not, their reaction is

“That is crazy talk.or I don’t agree with that.”

Provide a rational moral alternative.

Small steps….baby steps.

can_con on January 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Abortion kills a human being.

But it’s not a human being. That is like saying a frame of a car is the same as a car. Or a fuselage of a plane is an airplane. Or bunch of cement in trucks is the same as the Hoover dam. Or paint in a can is a work of art.

Most reasonable people understand that.

BTW, our humanity does not come to us even at birth. What we are is the subtotal of our life experiences; our goals, our successes, our loses, our joys and pains. As we get older, we accumulate more of what makes us human. A fetus, of course, has none of those. It is just only the beginning phase of what will become a human being at far later date.

keep the change on February 1, 2011 at 10:02 PM

Bishop on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 9:56 PM

Would MLK be proud today?

“It’s not the color of you skin..

It’s that you have skin..”

Electrongod on January 23, 2013 at 9:59 PM

Electrongod:

Yup,I heard he would of been 83 years old,and
what a hoot MLK would of been to be on the Lefty
MSM talk shows!

Yup,skin:)

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:15 PM

I think we are coming near to the great upheaval now, and hopefully when the dust is settled the world will be back to a quieter time. This thing that is coming will come to everyone’s doorstep for sure, because eventually as embolden as they are they will overreach and set off the powder keg, bound to happen, just a matter of when, but its things like this, that will cause them to be given no mercy or quarter, because no one will want that type of evil to remain even if caged or beaten or both.

MarshFox on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

This mustg be dickstrikes wife

tommy-t on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Best line I’ve seen, ” Planned Parenthood has killed more black people than the KKK”. Having said that, both were founded with support of the Democratic party.

Drill and Fill on January 23, 2013 at 10:23 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM
Interesting. Wonder if he/she knows who their biological mother is. I once attended a dinner where the speaker was an abortion survivor. Unbelievable. I will never forget her saying my mother tried to kill me before I was born.

txmomof6 on January 23, 2013 at 10:23 PM

Over at the New Yorker or where?

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM

MKH – you want raw, check out what Camille Paglia wrote on the subject.

John the Libertarian on January 23, 2013 at 10:15 PM

Do you have a link?

rrpjr on January 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Just did a quick google on camille paglia abortion and got this

John the Libertarian on January 23, 2013 at 10:23 PM

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Exactly! In reality it would be more accurate to describe them as pseudo-intellectual. They have the habit of mind to think in abstract terms but they lack the depth to realize the moral calamity of abstracting another human being. When combined with a raging narcissism, the abstract habit of mind can rationalize an almost unlimited range of depravity.

Lew on January 23, 2013 at 10:25 PM

Over at the New Yorker or where?

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM

Do you have a link?

rrpjr on January 23, 2013 at 10:18 PM

I think this is it.

http://www.salon.com/writer/camille_paglia/

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:25 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on January 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM

Wonder how they feel knowing they were at the heart of the matter, if they know at all.

MarshFox on January 23, 2013 at 10:26 PM

The part that makes me most incredulous (without sickening me in the process) is how she complains about people defending life, having supposedly co-opted the word “life”.

IT IS ABOUT HUMAN LIFE! THAT IS THE POINT!

To the contrary, 15 years after Roe, NARAL et al realized that as long as they continued to argue the “not alive” point, the truth was not on their side. THEY are the ones who worked to shift the argument with a huge newspaper ad campaign about it being the right to choose. Because who’s against rights, yeah? And who’s against choice? Even if it’s the choice to kill?

It is only when they are bold enough to be honest that the true monstrosity of this position comes to light. The entire point of liberty is that other people don’t get to arbitrarily choose whether you live or die, and what are good reasons or bad reasons. A person can only kill to defend against a threat to himself or his loved ones. An authority can only kill to defend those in his charge, be it a policeman, a soldier, or a judge, which is why so few crimes are capital cases, and the merits even of that are open to debate.

To destroy this most innocent form of life for societal reasons is barbaric. God have mercy on this “civilization”.

The Schaef on January 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

txmomof6 on January 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM

“Roe” McCorvey has now become everything the left hates: Born again Christian, former lesbian, confirmed Catholic, crusader for ending abortion, and an advocated of overturning Roe v. Wade.

The lefties love the decision, but not the person who gave it to them.

Bishop on January 23, 2013 at 10:27 PM

MarshFox on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Might. Hope not. If it does I am as prepared as any. I can live fairly well without any of it. I have been planning for years. Soon to be completely off grid so to speak. Roy Sr will meet them at the gate if it is truly their desire.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Bishop on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

thnx B, I saved that for the evil people that are still connected to me.

tommy-t on January 23, 2013 at 10:28 PM

One question I always wondered about prolifers…do you truly believe abortion is murder?

I mean if you do believe abortion is murder, what are you doing about it other than typing angry comments on a conservative blog?

I know if I knew a person was murdering kids on a daily basis, I would call the police and if that doesn’t solve the problem, I would confront the murderer, and if they don’t stop murdering, I would kill the murderer.

But how many of you prolifers are actually willing to kill supposed ‘murderers’ to save innocent babies? Oh, its easy to post a angry comment decrying the murder of babies, but if you truly believe it is murder, why aren’t you stopping the killers yourselves? I guess the ‘baby’ life isn’t so valuable after all huh…or maybe you don’t really believe its murder, since otherwise you’re essentially saying you can sleep knowing that you’re not going to stop the murderers themselves. Oh, I know, you’re going to say but “Im going to go to jail if I kill a known child-killer”…so I guess a innocent baby’s life isn’t worth your ass going to jail then.

nonpartisan on January 23, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Bishop on January 23, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Nice…that was rodgerb noteworthy….

BigWyo on January 23, 2013 at 10:29 PM

Out: Isn’t it worth doing if it saves just one life?

In: So, abortion ends a life. So what? There are a lot of lives that aren’t very important.

xblade on January 23, 2013 at 10:29 PM

This is exactly what I thought when I read this…emboldened, and eventually, enough decent people will be sickened by them…in the meantime, though, we are in for rough times…

ellifint on January 23, 2013 at 9:57 PM

Very true…

mnjg on January 23, 2013 at 10:13 PM

I truly wish it were true, but many pro abortion people believe themselves to be quite decent people.

Just as I imagine Germans believed they were decent people as they slowly accepted Hitler’s reasoning behind the concentration camps and extermination of undesirables.

Jvette on January 23, 2013 at 10:29 PM

What differences a few months make.

One it is an abortion, the other is a charges of infanticide.

When they finally embraces pro-choice is pro-murder of a life the mask will come off and they will lose. Many masks will come off over the next 1459 days.

tjexcite on January 23, 2013 at 10:30 PM

sharrukin on January 23, 2013 at 10:25 PM

Thanks John is bad not to link. John? I used to read her all the time. Must confess to have stopped of late. Hitchens too, used to be my fav.

Bmore on January 23, 2013 at 10:30 PM

“So, abortion ends a life. So what? There are a lot of lives that aren’t very important.”

Exactly the way I feel about any Obama supporter. Not one worth saving. Not one worth a tinker’s damn to society. Let them all burn in Hell.

Happy Nomad on January 23, 2013 at 10:30 PM

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 10:03 PM

Unfortunitly, it’s not my twitter handle…

idesign on January 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM

idesign:

Oh,well I scored this last night from the NRA
video,on Hopeys Demonizing tactics,with this new
BeSmirchment name calling—–:)

canopfor on January 23, 2013 at 10:31 PM

If you’re willing to kill your own baby then you are willing to do anything.

Flange on January 23, 2013 at 10:33 PM

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