NBC/WSJ poll: For first time, majority thinks abortion should be legal in all or most cases

posted at 9:31 am on January 22, 2013 by Allahpundit

If you’re hung over from drinking the blues away on Inauguration Day, bad news: It’s time to open another beer. New numbers on the 40th anniversary of Roe:

According to the poll, 54 percent of adults say that abortion should be legal either always or most of the time, while a combined 44 percent said it should be illegal – either with or without exceptions…

In addition, a whopping 70 percent of Americans oppose the Roe v. Wade decision from being overturned, including 57 percent who feel strongly about this…

By comparison, just 24 percent now want the Roe v. Wade decision overturned, including 21 percent who feel strongly about this position.

Much of this change, the NBC/WSJ pollsters say, is coming from African Americans, Latinos and women without college degrees — all of whom increasingly oppose the Supreme Court decision from being overturned.

Before today the highest number NBC/WSJ had recorded for keeping abortion legal in all or most cases was 49 percent in 2008. When you drill down into that data, you find that the number who want abortion legal in all cases — no exceptions, presumably not even for late term — is 31 percent, which is also a new high. Say this for Obama’s new coalition — they elected the right guy.

As for overturning Roe, despite the sturm and drang of Supreme Court confirmation hearings, Americans have never been keen on doing so. Pew’s recent poll on abortion found 63 percent opposed to the idea; in 1992, the number was 60 percent. NBC/WSJ sees a bit more movement over time but support for the status quo has been constant through the years in their data too:

Why the recent uptick? NBC’s pollsters speculate it’s partly a backlash to the Akin/Mourdock rape comments last year, but I don’t know. My sense is that backlashes like that tend to burn out fairly quickly. Obama won and Akin and Mourdock both lost, so the “threat” of a post-Roe world has passed for abortion supporters. I think the likelier explanation, as noted in the excerpt, is changing demographics. Pew published a set of polls a few weeks after the election showing that the 18-to-29 group that got Obama reelected was also the age demographic most supportive of keeping abortion legal in all or most cases. They were also far more likely — 14 points more likely — than any other age group to say that government should do more than that government is doing too much. Imagine their surprise when they find out America can’t pay for the government it has right now.

Now that you’ve digested those numbers, try to digest this one. Exit question: Do these numbers augur the eventual end of SCOTUS confirmation fights over Roe? A newly elected Republican president would be caught between social conservatives in his base, who want the decision overturned, and pretty much the entire rest of the electorate, which doesn’t. Makes me wonder if GOP candidates won’t start veering away from the idea of getting rid of Roe via new appointments and pushing the idea of a Human Life Amendment instead. They could sell it is a true democratic solution, the way the Founders intended, knowing all the while that it hasn’t a prayer of passing.

Update: Almost forgot: If you believe Pew, a majority of the 18-to-29 group that’s now steering the ship of state and that strongly opposes overturning Roe doesn’t know which issue Roe v. Wade actually dealt with.

Update: Life News notes that the poll question is misleading in how it describes the core holding of Roe. Fair enough, but assuming that the question has been similarly worded over time, you’re still seeing support increase since the late 1980s for a ruling that protects abortion within the first three months of pregnancy. And the more generic question, about whether abortion should be legal all or most of the time, has drawn majority support in other polls as well. Scroll through Polling Report’s compilation of data over the past few years. In a Gallup poll conducted last May, 50 percent identified as “pro-life” versus just 41 percent who identified as “pro-choice.” But when asked whether abortion should be legal always or sometimes, 52 percent said it should be legal sometimes and another 21 percent said always. There’s room for some optimism in those numbers — the public may be open to greater restrictions — but there’s a lot of work to be done to build a majority for an outright ban. In fact, maybe this table from Pew is the most daunting of all:


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Paying for someone elses sex life is not my reponsibility. If you want an abortion, pay for it yourself. If you support abortion, fund it. Using tax money for abortions makes me complicit in the act.

kemojr on January 22, 2013 at 11:51 AM

The Republicans should have been picking off easy fruit on the abortion question, like late-term abortion (with exceptions for the life of the mother), instead of trying to build Rome in one day. They should also use scientific arguments against it and not biblical ones.

Abortion for the GOP is like the gun issue for Democrats. Nothing ever good seems to happen to our side whenever we wonder down into those weeds…

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM

Well, this is what happens when Republicans hide under the desk for two successive presidential campaigns and offer no public defense of the pro-life position.

Outlander on January 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM

The Republicans should have been picking off easy fruit on the abortion question, like late-term abortion (with exceptions for the life of the mother), instead of trying to build Rome in one day. They should also use scientific arguments against it and not biblical ones.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM

Give me a break. They’ve done neither.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 11:55 AM

The Republicans should have been picking off easy fruit on the abortion question, like late-term abortion (with exceptions for the life of the mother), instead of trying to build Rome in one day. They should also use scientific arguments against it and not biblical ones.
***
William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 11:52 AM

Right. We only had one chance to overturn Roe–the Casey case in 1992. We failed.

The best we can do at this point is to try to impose common-sense limitations on the abortion right, and then try to win over hearts and minds on the issue until we build a popular consensus large enough to get a constitutional amendment.

Outlander on January 22, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Reading through this depressing thread, it’s clear that many of Hot Air’s readers are ready to throw the 2016 election to the Democrats. Abortion is going to kill the Republican Party.

wbcoleman on January 22, 2013 at 11:15 AM

I don’t know. Not even a hundred years ago forced sterilization of the “mentally unfit” was as popular as abortion is today, but look what happened to Buck v. Bell.

Gelsomina on January 22, 2013 at 11:58 AM

Paying for someone elses sex life is not my reponsibility. If you want an abortion, pay for it yourself. If you support abortion, fund it. Using tax money for abortions makes me complicit in the act.

kemojr on January 22, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Well, now that ObamaCare is here forever, at least until we finish melting down as a nation, you and I and every other tax payer are now actively funding abortions of all kinds, all day, every day.

Yep, need all the abortions we can possibly squeeze in a day. But at least guns are going to be banned. Whew, the kids sure “dodged a bullet” there.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Paying for someone elses sex life is not my reponsibility. If you want an abortion, pay for it yourself. If you support abortion, fund it. Using tax money for abortions makes me complicit in the act.

kemojr on January 22, 2013 at 11:51 AM

That is the other easy fruit the GOP should be going after.

The GOP should just say they are against late Term Abortion (unless the mother’s life is at stake) and the people (say “people” not “taxpayer”, it sounds better) of this country should not pay for someone elses abortions….and leave it at that.

Also add that this money should got to other things more useful to most Americans, like education, the military, to help pay off the debt, who cares as long as it benefits most Americans, which abortion does not.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM

changing demographics

pretty much sums up everything for the past 70 years…the more government grows the more freedom will be lost. The cost of that government will consume most of the wealth of the country. The middle class will cease to exist. I pity my grandchildren;s generation.

RedInMD on January 22, 2013 at 12:02 PM

With this high a value placed on life, is it any wonder?

Go find a ditch to die in.
lostmotherland on December 21, 2012 at 6:49 PM

Bmore on January 22, 2013 at 12:02 PM

Reading through this depressing thread, it’s clear that many of Hot Air’s readers are ready to throw the 2016 election to the Democrats. Abortion is going to kill the Republican Party.

wbcoleman on January 22, 2013 at 11:15 AM

The key is to define the debate in terms that make Democrats look bad. To do that, you have to get out in front of the issue.

In 2012, we didn’t do that. Instead, Mitt Romney hid under the desk on abortion, refusing to discuss it in the hopes of focusing on the economy and avoiding offending women. Obama then seized the issue and boxed the Republicans in so badly that by October, half of America’s women thought he was going to take their birth control pills away (what?!) and a solid quarter of them thought Republicans wanted to legalize rape. Talk about an epic fail!

Outlander on January 22, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Reading through this depressing thread, it’s clear that many of Hot Air’s readers are ready to throw the 2016 election to the Democrats. Abortion is going to kill the Republican Party.

wbcoleman on January 22, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Enjoy eternal damnation.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:05 PM

I think it may be time to adopt the somewhat callous attitude some in here have expressed: if libs want to keep killing off future libs, let ‘em knock themselves out.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:05 PM

Gotta be honest: I find that difficult to believe. If you feel that abortion is murder, why would you be comfortable with it being done in other states? I think you would fight to have it banned everywhere, and I wouldn’t hold it against you.

segasagez on January 22, 2013 at 11:46 AM

Because these kinds of issues are won or lost on the local level. You have to work from the ground up to win hearts and minds. Roe completely takes that power away from the states. I also am confident that I live in a red, red state and eventually it would be banned here.

I know that if abortion was dealt with honestly; most uneducated people would be appalled at the procedure. Instead women are told that it is akin to getting a mole removed. Giving the issue to the state means that the state can educate the public.

And even if I can’t save babies in New York, the ones that I save locally would be a start.

melle1228 on January 22, 2013 at 12:08 PM

The abortion rate among blacks is five times that of whites and twice that of Hispanics. If that isn’t a recipe for genocide, I don’t know what is.

Happy Nomad on January 22, 2013 at 10:03 AM

That’s what Roe v. Wade is all about.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg in 2009 to the New York Times:

“Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don’t want to have too many of. So that Roe was going to be then set up for Medicaid funding for abortion.”

Roe v. Wade has nothing to do with “women’s rights”. It was created to get rid of “populations that we don’t want to have too many of.”

Gelsomina on January 22, 2013 at 12:08 PM

Uh, Abortion is legal in most cases. Has been for decades.

I swear, some people just live in constant denial.

It’s never going back. Roe is never getting overturned. The bottom line is that if abortion is against your values, don’t have an abortion. Simple enough.

And, that’s all you can do about it. Anything else is a fantasy, but that’s where many of you live.

It won’t stop the Dems from trolling with it, of course. Because you are a bunch of marks that complicate any opposition to left wing crazy with your obsession over abortion. Divide and conquer works so well because of you.

Moesart on January 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM

I will be voting for whoever the GOP nominee is in 2016, and I am a pro-abortion zealot. I think many people in 2016 are only going to care about having a functioning economy.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 11:29 AM

Liar. You’re all aboard with this Obamanation.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:10 PM

What might stop the slaughter is when a kid asks if his or her mommy ever had an abortion and the mom says yes. What will the kid think–”Gee, I’m proud of you for being so enlightened,” or “Why didn’t you want my brother or sister? Gee, I’m lucky you didn’t kill me, too.” Then that kid grows up opposing the murder of innocents.

Liam on January 22, 2013 at 10:18 AM

That’s how my husband became passionately pro-life.

Gelsomina on January 22, 2013 at 12:11 PM

The bottom line is that if abortionslavery is against your values, don’t have an abortiona slave. Simple enough

FIFY..

Abortion sees another human being as property to be disposed of at will..

melle1228 on January 22, 2013 at 12:12 PM

That’s how my husband became passionately pro-life.

Gelsomina on January 22, 2013 at 12:11 PM

Two things did it for me. Hearing my first child’s heartbeat three weeks after conception.. and growing up and watching my generation who had unlimited access to abortion have to live with their decision. What was supposed to be good for women victimized women with lies and deceit.

melle1228 on January 22, 2013 at 12:15 PM

No, they fight againsr every restriction, no matter how mild, and then find ways not to enforce it. Roe vs. Wade, was predicated on the fraud of a false rape, and it’s been deception ever since,

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM

The key is to define the debate in terms that make Democrats look bad. To do that, you have to get out in front of the issue.

In 2012, we didn’t do that. Instead, Mitt Romney hid under the desk on abortion, refusing to discuss it in the hopes of focusing on the economy and avoiding offending women. Obama then seized the issue and boxed the Republicans in so badly that by October, half of America’s women thought he was going to take their birth control pills away (what?!) and a solid quarter of them thought Republicans wanted to legalize rape. Talk about an epic fail!

Outlander on January 22, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Exactly, I have no trouble with Republicans talking about abortion, but just understand political reality and win the battles you can win.

Seriously the GOP does need to learn a lesson from the progressives. Look how they have taken issues that at one time were unpopular and have made them popular. They used a slow grinding method, picking off easy fruit one at a time, organizing and planning, and waiting for the harder to reach fruit to get closer and closer. That way when the harder fruit was ready to pick they always seem to be ready.

This is the same thing in relation to demographics, Latinos and Asian-Americans. There is no reason why those groups will remain democratic bastions forever, just like the immigrants who came in during the late 19th and early 20th century changed over time as well from a political stand point. Many of those folks voted for FDR (multiple times in fact) and yet those same people ended up also voting for Reagan once they got older. We have to try and start working to win those people now and it will take time, but we don’t have to win them all, just around 40% would be enough to win a national election. Remember Reagan started working to become president some thirty years before he became president. He had a long term plan.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM

It won’t stop the Dems from trolling with it, of course. Because you are a bunch of marks that complicate any opposition to left wing crazy with your obsession over abortion.

Moesart on January 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM

So give us some examples of “left wing crazy” that you would like to see changed, Moesart. In every case I can tell you “there’s no going back”.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:19 PM

I’m surprised to hear this. What about personal responsibility? A man made a choice that resulted in some consequence. Physically, the man has no more impact on the situation. Barring a complete ban on abortions, should a man be able to “unilaterally” force a woman to have the baby?

segasagez on January 22, 2013 at 10:44 AM

For you the entire abortion problem seems to be about sex and power.

Do you think that men are not able to love their children?

Gelsomina on January 22, 2013 at 12:21 PM

But he will not. His Mercy was delivering his son to execution for our sins. But our people no longer repent in any level of their sins. They are lost and will find no mercy upon their souls.

astonerii on January 22, 2013 at 11:28 AM

I know. I suppose I should have said God have mercy on me, a sinner. That’s why I keep posting that passage of scripture, in hopes that even one person will read it and wake up to the truth. It is so obvious, but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

I know we have to keep fighting for the truth and can’t cave in to despair, but when I see people arguing about how do we win the next election, I shake my head. I’m amazed that so few seem to understand the magnitude of what is going on in this world. It seems so obvious.

I don’t know if we are in the end times, though the signs are striking: nature, war, spiritual darkness/death. Of course, people have always thought it was time when things were rough, ie the Black Death, French Revolution, … but when I look at the headlines on Drudge, or Spiritdaily…this is world wide. Something big is coming. The hand of Divine Providence our Founding Fathers relied on is being removed, if it is not completely withdrawn already.

Since Obama’s first election, I have thought it was our last chance to turn around. Roe v Wade is 40 years old today. Is it just a coincidence that it comes the day after the inauguration of the most pro-abortion/anti-Catholic/Christian president in history? 40 has great significance as a period of testing and bringing to repentance. 40 days and 40 nights of the flood…40 years wandering in the desert…Jesus fasted and tempted for 40 days…40 days to repent in Nineveh…and there is 40 months for a child to be born… 40…

Something big is coming.

But he answered and said to them: When it is evening, you say, It will be fair weather, for the sky is red. [3] And in the morning: Today there will be a storm, for the sky is red and lowering. You know then how to discern the face of the sky: and can you not know the signs of the times?

pannw on January 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM

The GOP should just say they are against late Term Abortion (unless the mother’s life is at stake) and the people (say “people” not “taxpayer”, it sounds better) of this country should not pay for someone elses abortions….and leave it at that.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM

Trying to destroy the Republican coalition. You think us Conservative Christians would accept being thrown out on the street and still vote for these people? Enjoy going the way of the Whigs.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM

What is the alternative though? Maybe all abortion illegal is one. Is there anything other than that?

By the way, I’m not promoting abortion. I haven’t even defended it.

segasagez on January 22, 2013 at 10:52 AM

If you want an alternative, look at Buck v. Bell. It has never been formally overturned.

Gelsomina on January 22, 2013 at 12:25 PM

So give us some examples of “left wing crazy” that you would like to see changed, Moesart. In every case I can tell you “there’s no going back”.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Welfare Reform….even got a democrat president to pass it.

All these entitlements can be reformed and transformed….in other words stop using the word cut and start using the word reform and transform.

Americans like those words. They sound like we are getting something new. New car, new girlfriend, new house, new kitten…etc.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Trying to destroy the Republican coalition. You think us Conservative Christians would accept being thrown out on the street and still vote for these people? Enjoy going the way of the Whigs.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM

As an EX Republican, I can tell you with 100% certainty that many Conservatives are leaving or have already left the Republican party. It’s already happening.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 12:28 PM

So give us some examples of “left wing crazy” that you would like to see changed, Moesart. In every case I can tell you “there’s no going back”.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:19 PM

Welfare Reform….even got a democrat president to pass it..

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 12:27 PM

Where is it now?

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Trying to destroy the Republican coalition. You think us Conservative Christians would accept being thrown out on the street and still vote for these people? Enjoy going the way of the Whigs.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM

As an EX Republican, I can tell you with 100% certainty that many Conservatives are leaving or have already left the Republican party. It’s already happening.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 12:28 PM

I am not out officially yet as in registration, but the Republican party can kiss every aspect of my help gone. Only conservative candidates will earn my assistance.

astonerii on January 22, 2013 at 12:32 PM

DOMA was passed 86-0, in 1996, it was swept away as if it had been a party line vote, O’Sullivan’s law applies any institution, that is not intrinsically conservative will default

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 12:35 PM

Only evil people think killing an unborn baby is acceptable. That so many evil people are in this country tells me everything I know about our future.

tyketto on January 22, 2013 at 12:37 PM

It’s a NBC poll, so they only polled the stupid, that was the demographic of the election, but it was smaller then usual.

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 12:39 PM

BTW, yes I’m “obsessed” with abortion Moeart. Murdered babies has a way of affecting people with souls.

tyketto on January 22, 2013 at 12:42 PM

Trying to destroy the Republican coalition. You think us Conservative Christians would accept being thrown out on the street and still vote for these people? Enjoy going the way of the Whigs.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM

No. Did Abraham Lincoln say he was going to ban slavery? No just limit it. Hardcore Abolitionist threw a fit over the Lincoln candidacy, and said he was not down with the cause. If he had come out for banning slavery during the election he would not have been elected president. He went far enough on slavery to cause the south to throw a fit (and boy did they!) but not enough to prevent his election.

The same with our founding fathers and the revolution. It took from the end of the French-Indian War until 1776 to convince enough colonist that they needed to break away from Britain. So the revolutionaries took there time, slowly bringing the people to their cause.

It is ok for christian conservatives to form groups and organizations that fight to ban all abortion, to work on the planning and long term goals, but politicians can’t do that. A politician that can’t get elected is no good to your cause or anyone else. So you go with the politicians who can at least advance your cause a little more.

Prophets and Politicians are different things most of the time. Prophets can afford to be stoned to death by the people, to be a martyr. They are playing for the long term, politicians can not be that and are for the short term. Sometimes a prophet can change himself into a politician, like Reagan did. But that takes years of planning and preparing.

By going for late term abortions only it will cause the progressives to throw a fit, and using scientific arguments you can make them look silly and stupid. Like they are over reacting. Force them into a situation Lincoln put the South into…

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 12:44 PM

Trying to destroy the Republican coalition. You think us Conservative Christians would accept being thrown out on the street and still vote for these people? Enjoy going the way of the Whigs.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM

I don’t think that’s what he was advocating. The pro-life movement’s goal should be to reduce abortion rates as much as possible, hoping one day to reduce them to zero. But to do that requires a shift in cultural thinking about abortion–a fight that will require us to change hearts and minds throughout society.

That fight occurs on the cultural front, not through legislation. For now, we have to accept that Roe is the law of the land and the only realistic way to get rid of Roe is to amend the Constitution. To do that requires huge public support, hence my point about winning hearts and minds.

Outlander on January 22, 2013 at 12:49 PM

Meanwhile they legitimate abortion, most recently on ‘Parenthood’, and they attack anyone who by example, not legislation, or mere words, lives out her beliefs.

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 12:56 PM

Everything that we have built, like welfare reform, or DOMA, is built on sand, everything is negotiable for us, in Brezhnev fashion, there is no retreat for them.

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 1:04 PM

Where is it now?

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM

It is no where now because GOP stopped using common sense and lost its brand by electing GWB and defending him for eight years. That created a vacuum which was filled by progressives who managed to re-win that position by getting Obama elected.

The GOP needs to pick a few big issues that will decide America’s future and pound those. One of those is reforming government. The GOP will be for well run, streamlined, business like, government, while the Democrats are are big bloated government that is inept and best yet lets government employees steal tax payers money meant for the poor, the old, the needy.

Obviously government needs to cut and entitlements fixed, but you have to phrase right. Reform is a much better sounding word than cut. That is how the GOP took charge in the 1990s. The Democrats had a series of officials getting caught with their hands on the money and they are still very susceptible to that form of attack. Romney only did it a little, the next GOP pick needs to do that a lot.

We are going to reform entitlements by making sure more tax payer money gets to those who need it and not into the pockets of middle men (government employees). All of it will be means tested as well which will be popular with the poor and lower middle class. The wealthy and upper middle class will go along with this because the GOP will also promise lower taxes to them which should keep them happy at this development.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Are patients forced to listen to the explanation of a procedure?
It’s my understanding that some people who are against abortion want to force patients to listen to the explanation of a procedure.
segasagez on January 22, 2013 at 11:38 AM

Well, when I was readied to have ANY surgery, over my 60+ years, I was not only ‘forced’ to listen to the explanation of the procure, I was REQUIRED to explain it back to them, and correctly, or they’d repeat it until I could.
Seems only judicious, IMHO.

Guess the gubmint would have to dictate even the DESCRIPTION, tho, eh ??
“I’ll be sucking out a mere blob of tissue, so fear not” ???
Certainly couldn’t explain the dismemberment in the womb, or the plunging of an instrument to remove brain tissue before complete birth. Nooooooo !

pambi on January 22, 2013 at 1:13 PM

And they ended up doing nothing, but furthering the shell game of Clinton’s sham ‘surpluses’, all the while increasing discretionary spending, than passing useless rules like Sarbanes Oxley, enacting Medicare Part D, ‘because we needed to do something’ eleventy.

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 1:15 PM

I’m surprised to hear this. What about personal responsibility? A man made a choice that resulted in some consequence. Physically, the man has no more impact on the situation. Barring a complete ban on abortions, should a man be able to “unilaterally” force a woman to have the baby?

segasagez on January 22, 2013 at 10:44 AM

In the example provided (mine,) it was the couple who made the choice to have a baby. It was the couple who conceived, and planned, and made the requisite modifications to their lifestyle in expectation of this child. The point was that all decisions had been made jointly, yet if the female changes her mind and decides to have an abortion, then it becomes her decision alone, regardless of the man’s desires or original intent. This same behavior wouldn’t be tolerated in any other joint enterprise, yet in this most important of ones, the man is made a complete legal non-entity.

So, yes, this is about personal responsibility. To paraphrase you, the couple made a choice that resulted in some consequences. Shouldn’t both parties then be allowed a hand in deciding on an outcome?

CaptFlood on January 22, 2013 at 1:17 PM

Obviously government needs to cut and entitlements fixed, but you have to phrase right. Reform is a much better sounding word than cut. That is how the GOP took charge in the 1990s. The Democrats had a series of officials getting caught with their hands on the money and they are still very susceptible to that form of attack. Romney only did it a little, the next GOP pick needs to do that a lot.

We are going to re

form entitlements by making sure more tax payer money gets to those who need it and not into the pockets of middle men (government employees). All of it will be means tested as well which will be popular with the poor and lower middle class. The wealthy and upper middle class will go along with this because the GOP will also promise lower taxes to them which should keep them happy at this development.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 1:05 PM

We tried that with Nitya and he lost to a supporter of infanticide, a died in the wool leftist. What do you want next, Chris Christie? Have fun going at it alone without millions of devout Christians. You’ll never win being a social leftist, economic conservative. After all, someone has to pay for all that social irresponsibility. The group you’re targeting prefers handouts to responsibility. The way of the Whigs…

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 1:24 PM

We tried that with Nitya

We tried that with Mitt*

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 1:26 PM

Paying for someone elses sex life is not my reponsibility. If you want an abortion, pay for it yourself. If you support abortion, fund it. Using tax money for abortions makes me complicit in the act.

kemojr on January 22, 2013 at 11:51 AM

Ok. Let’s say not a penny of your tax money goes towards abortion, but you have to pay taxes for the additional welfare load and prison load. Meanwhile I don’t have to pay those taxes, but I do pay taxes for lower income women to have an abortion. I get the lower tax rate! Paying for abortion saves money, so quite whining about it.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Paying for abortion saves money, so quite whining about it.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:27 PM

So, better to kill the babies, and decrease the surplus population, huh.

Unbelievable.

kingsjester on January 22, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Cool.

mythicknight on January 22, 2013 at 1:30 PM

Obviously government needs to cut and entitlements fixed, but you have to phrase right. Reform is a much better sounding word than cut. That is how the GOP took charge in the 1990s. The Democrats had a series of officials getting caught with their hands on the money and they are still very susceptible to that form of attack. Romney only did it a little, the next GOP pick needs to do that a lot.
We are going to reform entitlements by making sure more tax payer money gets to those who need it and not into the pockets of middle men (government employees). All of it will be means tested as well which will be popular with the poor and lower middle class. The wealthy and upper middle class will go along with this because the GOP will also promise lower taxes to them which should keep them happy at this development.

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 1:05 PM

We tried that with Mitt and he lost to a supporter of infanticide, a died in the wool leftist. What do you want next, Chris Christie? Have fun going at it alone without millions of devout Christians. You’ll never win being a social leftist, economic conservative. After all, someone has to pay for all that social irresponsibility. The group you’re targeting prefers handouts to responsibility. The way of the Whigs…

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 1:31 PM

So, better to kill the babies, and decrease the surplus population, huh.

Unbelievable.

kingsjester on January 22, 2013 at 1:30 PM

It is a lefty Gaia worshipper. You’re better off ignoring it.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 1:34 PM

I will be voting for whoever the GOP nominee is in 2016, and I am a pro-abortion zealot. I think many people in 2016 are only going to care about having a functioning economy.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 11:29 AM

Liar. You’re all aboard with this Obamanation.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 12:10 PM

I agree with Obama on two issues, abortion and marriage equality. Otherwise, I think if Obama were setting out deliberately to destroy America, he would do what he doing. Open borders plus socialism leads inevitably to the destruction of the economy.
You need to accept the fact that some people who may agree with you on some issues will disagree with you on other issues. I noticed one leftard posting today saying the right is too binary in its thinking. It is an effective put-down. Please don’t make yourself the Left’s poster boy for the Right.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:39 PM

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:39 PM

How is voting for Obamao based solely on two issues not binary?

But then the fact of the matter is that Obamao and his Chicago thug machine DID successfully dupe enough people into thinking Romney would abolish abortion and birth control. I guess you’re a shining example of their success. Congratulations. Enjoy your new USSA.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Is there any doubt about how the masses supported the evil done in ermany? One nation kills for extreme disciplinewhile ours kills because of lack of discipline and self-control.
A cult of evil is a cult of evil, only it never can be known as anything but the source of good, as in abortion-it’s for the children.

Don L on January 22, 2013 at 1:50 PM

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:39 PM

Then again, I don’t know who you voted for, and don’t really care, its irrelevant at this point.

I was really referring to those who were duped into voting for Obamao based on those lies. Which you may or may not be one of, but nonetheless, we are where we are.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 1:52 PM

How is voting for Obamao based solely on two issues not binary?

But then the fact of the matter is that Obamao and his Chicago thug machine DID successfully dupe enough people into thinking Romney would abolish abortion and birth control. I guess you’re a shining example of their success. Congratulations. Enjoy your new USSA.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Is it common that pro-lifers reading comprehension skills are so low? I voted straight ticket for the GOP in 2008, 2010, and 2012. I will do so again in 2014 and 2016. At this point, I would do so even if Rick Santorum were the GOP nominee. We need to put this country back on the path of fiscal sanity.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Then again, I don’t know who you voted for, and don’t really care, its irrelevant at this point.

I was really referring to those who were duped into voting for Obamao based on those lies. Which you may or may not be one of, but nonetheless, we are where we are.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 1:52 PM

I am trying to get out the message that it is wrong-headed to vote Democratic based on the social issues of abortion and marriage equality. So really we agree on a pretty basic level.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:59 PM

The GOP needs to drop this issue and move on.

It’s a moral decision people need to make for themselves like Adultery or Homosexuality, and the law is not going to change anyway.

Those who are pro-life should focus their efforts to advocate for people to make the decision themselves not to have an abortion, but as a political movement to get it criminalized outright is pure fantasy.

I’m done throwing away elections on this issue and handing the country over to socialist Democrats.

BradTank on January 22, 2013 at 2:03 PM

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 1:59 PM

True, my apology for lumping you in, sometimes my enthusiasm gets the better of me before I have a chance to go back and look at what people have written. With no editing capabilities here, I’m sure that happens a lot.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 2:04 PM

What a dozen years ago, only Scalia realized that gay marriage was the next on the slippery slope, now it is no longer acceptable to be in favor of abortion, it must be available everywhere and govt funded, and no conscience objection stand in the way, you see how they shift the guide posts, Ayers and Obama spent decades in the trenches, coming up with educational vehicles to legitimize the unthinkable, until it was,

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 2:09 PM

Sad day. It’ll only get worse.

mrscullen on January 22, 2013 at 2:15 PM

Where is it now?

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 12:30 PM

It is no where now

William Eaton on January 22, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Thank you. Next!

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:17 PM

The GOP needs to drop this issue and move on.

It’s a moral decision people need to make for themselves like Adultery or Homosexuality, and the law is not going to change anyway.

Those who are pro-life should focus their efforts to advocate for people to make the decision themselves not to have an abortion, but as a political movement to get it criminalized outright is pure fantasy.

I’m done throwing away elections on this issue and handing the country over to socialist Democrats.

BradTank on January 22, 2013 at 2:03 PM

Choosing not to murder the unborn is a moral decision that should be left to the person? Do you feel that way about newborn children, small children, young teenagers, etc? Why is your personal preference any more relevant than someone elses?

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Obama: “It’s not really a ‘Drone Program’ just think of it as a remote controlled Planned Parenthood late term abortion provider…”

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on January 22, 2013 at 2:26 PM

In China the government can force women to have an abortion.

In America there many who want the government to force women to give birth.

Mandatory abortions and compulsory childbirth are two sides of the same coin. The government that can force a woman to give birth by denial of access to abortion may one day decide it will deny women the right to give birth for any or no reason.

That’s why I’m pro-choice. I believe the woman, in consultation with her doctor can make a better decision for pregnancy than the government can make for her.

Pro-choice is the conservative position.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM

In the US every day there are more than 140 Newtowns but noone cares because these children are still in the womb where they should be safer than anyplace in the world. How can we get so upset about 6 years olds but give not a whit for the 3700 children killed every day at abortion clinics. It boggles the mind. I daresay that there’s noone beyond the age of reason who doesn’t know that it’s not a piece of tissue, it’s a living breathing baby in it’s mother’s womb.

kiwikit on January 22, 2013 at 2:29 PM

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Why don’t you left wing evil lunatics set up parties in front of abortion murder clinics celebrating every time a woman murders her baby… Dancing, chanting, food, and all of that… Then during the party you honor the courage of the woman for killing her baby… present her with a medal…

mnjg on January 22, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Cash reward for whoever gets chumpThreads off this site permanently.

MelonCollie on January 22, 2013 at 2:33 PM

In China the government can force women to have an abortion.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM

And you have a problem with that why, exactly? If Obama proposed that, you’d be talking about what an inspirational thing it is and how anyone who objects is a dinosaur. You O-bot moonbats are the creepiest of creeps.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:33 PM

In America there many who want the government to force women to give birth.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Don’t want to give birth? Don’t have sex. I’m not forcing anyone to do anything. In America, there are many moonbats who want to force taxpayers to fund whatever lifestyle they think will rub the noses of them thar rubes in it.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:35 PM

mnjg on January 22, 2013 at 2:31 PM

What part of my comment do you disagree with, and why?

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:36 PM

Don’t want to give birth? Don’t have sex.
ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:35 PM

This is not a solution, nor is it a justification for compulsory childbirth.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Babies come from (often unprotected) sex, chump. Don’t want babies? Don’t have sex, use BC, or get snipped.

But that would require you to take responsibility instead of running to Klanned Barrenhood for a taxpayer-funded bailout.

MelonCollie on January 22, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Don’t want to give birth? Don’t have sex.
ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:35 PM

This is not a solution, nor is it a justification for compulsory childbirth.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM

That is THE solution.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Cash reward for whoever gets chumpThreads off this site permanently.

MelonCollie on January 22, 2013 at 2:33 PM

Heck, pay me enough and I’ll leave voluntarily.

It’s gonna cost you, though.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Lol. What are Akin and Murdock up to next? I want to donate, whatever it is.

lester on January 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM

That is THE solution.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Guy near my workplace often walks by with a shirt saying only abstinence and fidelity will stop abortion.

At this point he’s totally right. Getting to SCOTUS again is, let’s admit it, not gonna happen. We can still influence individual behavior though.

MelonCollie on January 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Come on, chump. You know that if your messiah proclaimed tomorrow via EO that women will be forced to undergo abortions if they’ve already had one child, you’d be all for it.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Lol. What are Akin and Murdock up to next? I want to donate, whatever it is.

lester on January 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Why, did your mommy just give you your allowance? Better save that quarter buddy! Though if you’re really feeling generous…

MelonCollie on January 22, 2013 at 2:43 PM

That’s why I’m pro-choice. I believe the woman, in consultation with her doctor can make a better decision for pregnancy than the government can make for her.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM

Well, based on this statement you must be against ObamaCare then?

Because with ObamaCare, the days of that decision actually remaining with the woman and her Doctor are numbered, and you know it. Soon the decision will come from an unelected, unaccountable board of bureaucrats and bean counters.

Welcome to the USSA, comrade.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 2:44 PM

In China the government can force women to have an abortion.

In America there many who want the government to force women to give birth.

Mandatory abortions and compulsory childbirth are two sides of the same coin. The government that can force a woman to give birth by denial of access to abortion may one day decide it will deny women the right to give birth for any or no reason.

That’s why I’m pro-choice. I believe the woman, in consultation with her doctor can make a better decision for pregnancy than the government can make for her.

Pro-choice is the conservative position.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:28 PM

I think you are avoiding the real issue by design. The issue is whether a woman is allowed to have killed a genetically distinct human entity within her, or is it murder? I find the notion of killing an animal living its own life for meat more similar to murder than abortion is. I support allowing the practice of eating meat. You cannot escape the question of what is being killed.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Well, based on this statement you must be against ObamaCare then?

Because with ObamaCare, the days of that decision actually remaining with the woman and her Doctor are numbered, and you know it. Soon the decision will come from an unelected, unaccountable board of bureaucrats and bean counters.

Welcome to the USSA, comrade.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 2:44 PM

I think ObamaCare’s days are numbered, actually. It’s going to collapse of its own weight. Watch.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:45 PM

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM

I forgot. You’re nothing but a bait meister.

You couldn’t hold a serious discussion with a Cheshire Cat.

I’ll be ignoring you by the time you get to the punctuation mark at the end of this sentence.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:46 PM

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:41 PM

I forgot. You’re nothing but a bait meister.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:46 PM

And you’re a simple-minded moron, just the sort that Chicago Jesus relies on. Come on, tell me on what principle you’d object to forced abortions. If the Democratic party says it’s good, you’d be right there cheering it with the rest of your fellow moonbat cretins.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:48 PM

I think ObamaCare’s days are numbered, actually. It’s going to collapse of its own weight. Watch.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:45 PM

If ObamaCare collapses, the only thing it will be replaced with is full blown single-payer healthcare. Maybe that’s by design.

But it will only serve to put yet another nail in the coffin of America as it was founded.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 2:49 PM

If ObamaCare collapses, the only thing it will be replaced with is full blown single-payer healthcare. Maybe that’s by design.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 2:49 PM

It’s the design, but it’s even more impossible.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:50 PM

You couldn’t hold a serious discussion with a Cheshire Cat.

I’ll be ignoring you by the time you get to the punctuation mark at the end of this sentence.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Another one of Bill Maher’s drooling trained seals. *flap* *flap* *bark* *bark*

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:51 PM

It’s the design, but it’s even more impossible.

ddrintn on January 22, 2013 at 2:50 PM

That’s true, but won’t stop them from doing it.

Meople on January 22, 2013 at 2:52 PM

I think you are avoiding the real issue by design. The issue is whether a woman is allowed to have killed a genetically distinct human entity within her

Yes, she can. There is no right to be born.

or is it murder?

No, abortion is not legally recognized as murder. Saying abortion is murder doesn’t make it so.

I find the notion of killing an animal living its own life for meat more similar to murder than abortion is. I support allowing the practice of eating meat. You cannot escape the question of what is being killed.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Nor am I attempting to do so. Some pregnancies carry to term and a baby is born. Some do not and a fetus dies. There are no guarantees, and trying to create a guarantee of birth by forcing women to give birth against their will is wrong, in my opinion.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 3:02 PM

I think you are avoiding the real issue by design.
thuja on January 22, 2013 at 2:45 PM

And you very clearly avoided the issue I raised in my comment about government’s role in women’s reproductive rights.

If the Chinese government is wrong to force women to have abortions (and I believe it is wrong) then why would the U.S. government be right to force women to give birth?

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 3:07 PM

Choosing not to murder the unborn is a moral decision that should be left to the person? Do you feel that way about newborn children, small children, young teenagers, etc? Why is your personal preference any more relevant than someone elses?

njrob

The usual, ridiculous straw man argument.

If you truly believe it’s all 1st degree, premeditated murder, are you willing to call for the death penalty for all women who have had an abortion?

It’s all the same, murder is murder, right?

BradTank on January 22, 2013 at 3:10 PM

BradTank on January 22, 2013 at 3:10 PM

Abortion is legal. Stopping a beating heart outside the womb is not.

kingsjester on January 22, 2013 at 3:13 PM

What part of my comment do you disagree with, and why?

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 2:36 PM

All of it… In our Constitution we do not have the right for ABORTION and murders of babies, we have the right to LIFE and this includes the unborn who has the right to LIFE…

mnjg on January 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM

The usual, ridiculous straw man argument.

If you truly believe it’s all 1st degree, premeditated murder, are you willing to call for the death penalty for all women who have had an abortion?

It’s all the same, murder is murder, right?

BradTank on January 22, 2013 at 3:10 PM

They are both homicide, not murder. One is considered lawful, the other is not. What is different between them other than the age and stage of development.

njrob on January 22, 2013 at 3:24 PM

Question # 20, only has 39% for Roe vs. Wade, with a 41% don’t know, another shows 67% dissaproval for abortion on demand, so it all depends how you spin it,

narciso on January 22, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Yes, she can. There is no right to be born.

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 3:02 PM

Hmmm… life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Deanna on January 22, 2013 at 3:26 PM

It’s never going back. Roe is never getting overturned. The bottom line is that if abortion is against your values, don’t have an abortion. Simple enough.

And, that’s all you can do about it. Anything else is a fantasy, but that’s where many of you live.

Moesart on January 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM

.
You’re never, ever going to convince dedicated Christian believers that your “private sex life (abortions)” dosen’t affect the rest of the us.
Being “tolerant” of murder, by allowing a ‘black robe wearing bench-sitter’ to decree that “a gestating baby is not a ‘real person’ if the woman experiencing the gestation so chooses” WILL NOT EVER BE ACCEPTED.

Of course, it helps to believe in God. But that is one issue that God is “pro choice” on.

There’s no room for negotiation on any of the above.

listens2glenn on January 22, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Deanna on January 22, 2013 at 3:26 PM

You beat me to it.

kingsjester on January 22, 2013 at 3:30 PM

I think you are avoiding the real issue by design.

thuja on January 22, 2013 at 2:45 PM

.
And you very clearly avoided the issue I raised in my comment about government’s role in women’s reproductive rights.

If the Chinese government is wrong to force women to have abortions (and I believe it is wrong) then why would the U.S. government be right to force women to give birth?

chumpThreads on January 22, 2013 at 3:07 PM

.
“Reproductive rights” is what the Chinese citizens want, and are denied.

What your side is asking (demanding, actually) is to be able to engage in any kind of sexual pleasure you want, without consequences.

That’s not a “reproductive right”.

listens2glenn on January 22, 2013 at 3:40 PM

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