Sin Tax Wars! 60.9% of all smokes in NY go untaxed

posted at 8:31 am on January 19, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

With all the nonsense that’s been going on in the Empire State of late – especially the Governor’s successful gun rantings - I’d begun to worry that New York was doomed for mediocrity. But for better or worse, you just can’t keep the government of this state down. If we can’t lead in freedom, prosperity or employment, we can at least be the capital of piracy. (Cigarette smuggling piracy, that is.)

The Midland, Mich.-based Mackinac Center has released smuggling reports in 2006 and 2009, in addition to its most recent report covering 2011. In 2006, the Mackinac Center estimated that New York had the fifth highest smuggling rate in the country as 35.81%. In 2008, New York’s state excise tax on cigarettes nearly doubled, going from $1.50 to $2.75 per pack. In the Mackinac Center’s 2009 report, New York rose to number two on the list, with a smuggling rate of 47.35%. State excise taxes rose again in 2010, going from $2.75 to the state’s current $4.35. Not surprisingly, the 190% increase in state excise taxes from 2006 through 2011 catapulted New York to its title as the most smuggled state.

But this still leaves a pressing question. Where are all of these smokes coming from? It’s not as if Al Gore’s global warming has suddenly turned New York into a great place to grow tobacco. According to another analysis, the largest (illegal) exporter of cigarettes to the Big Apple was New Hampshire. How could that happen?

New Hampshire had the highest share of its cigarettes — 26.8 percent — smuggled out of the state. The state cut its tax rate in 2011 by 10 cents to $1.68, still slightly higher than the national average. But it is surrounded by states with much higher tax rates. In Massachusetts, for example, the tax was $2.51 per pack.

If it was easier to get large quantities of cigarettes from a place like Tennessee to New York, that’s where they would be coming from. (You can find Marlboros there for under five bucks a pack today, all taxes included.) But New Hampshire is closer, so their retailers reap the benefits. Meanwhile, Governor Cuomo’s state continues to bleed out cash, thinking that just one more tax hike will finally make the difference and put us back in the black.

Let us know how that works out, Andy.


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when I lived in New York I hit up the Indian Reservation. Cheap as crap, and oh! there’s the liquor. Then I hightailed it back to white man country.

Slade73 on January 19, 2013 at 8:36 AM

Hey, I’m from Syracuse. Why go to New Hampshire when you only need to go to the Oneida Reservation to avoid cigarette taxes? Stop by at Turning Stone while you’re there. Native Americans have figured out that they can use their special status to build islands of freedom to their significant financial benefit.

xuyee on January 19, 2013 at 8:38 AM

You would think that with all their progressive laws the citizens of NY would have obtained sainthood status. They should be 99% perfected by now.

tom daschle concerned on January 19, 2013 at 8:40 AM

You mean, taxation didn’t bring in expected revenue? How can that be? We need to study this further.

Sincerely,
Libiot

hillsoftx on January 19, 2013 at 8:42 AM

Maine, under the Baldacci administration, also raised taxes on smokes. The taxes nearly doubled, and the leftists and Baldacci sycophants, but I repeat myself, estimated they’d bring in an additional $92 million dollars.

Problem was that folks refused to pay the higher taxes and so many either cut back, stopped completely or, wait for it……. went to New Hampshire or to the Indian Reservation tobacco store.

Because of that, the actual income from the tax increase was about $72 million. BUT……. the leftists had already spent the $92 million and found themselves $20 million short. What to do, what to do…..

The answer should surprise no one here. The morons on the left decided to again raise taxes on smokes to cover the “revenue loss”. Rather than wait until the money actually came in, they again spent it and the cycle continued.

TKindred on January 19, 2013 at 8:42 AM

Smuggling and underground economies will always exist where there are laws to tax, frustrate, limit or deny access to goods or services desired by the citizenry. Happens with alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and prostitution.

And yet the modern liberal knows that gun bans will somehow be different… ?

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 8:44 AM

Here along the Cape Fear, the history of pirating is heavy. The pirates, by and large, were well liked.

They robbed the ships, and sold the goods to the people tax free, from the beginning of time, “leaders” are so stupid they think they can beat thousands of years of lessons…people want to be free, live free, and governments are formed initially to keep them free.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 8:48 AM

This is New York, where we pay taxes on our taxes. I filled the car up this morning for the low, low price of $3.69 a gallon which includes the sales tax on the NYS per gallon excise tax. I just wish they’d keep their Worker’s Paradise from screwing up the Proletariat Utopia. If only we had the right people in charge, it’d be perfect.

trubble on January 19, 2013 at 8:48 AM

If you can’t stop weed from being smuggled you sure can’t stop cigs.Didn’t the mob perfect smuggling during prohibition?

docflash on January 19, 2013 at 8:48 AM

If Preckwinkle gets her way, the tax on a pack of smokes in Chicago would reach $6.67, leaving it just 19 cents short of New York City’s $6.86, according to government statistics. The current taxes on a pack of cigarettes in Chicago are $2 from Cook County, $1.98 from Illinois, $1.01 from the federal government and 68 cents from the city.

Democrat utopias. And get this:

Preckwinkle said the cigarette tax is good government policy because it would deter smoking.

Then just ban it you dumbf***.

Just look at the face of tyranny.

These people are at the lowest end of the bell curve. True idiots.

Yet the rank and file reflexively pull that D lever year after year.

Total imbeciles.

tom daschle concerned on January 19, 2013 at 8:49 AM

This just can be, not with Nanny bloom-burg running thangs.

RealMc on January 19, 2013 at 8:49 AM

The answer should surprise no one here. The morons on the left decided to again raise taxes on smokes to cover the “revenue loss”. Rather than wait until the money actually came in, they again spent it and the cycle continued.

TKindred on January 19, 2013 at 8:42 AM

Ha!! That story should be re-written as “Johnny and Sally”, and make it mandatory reading for every child…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 8:49 AM

If you can’t stop weed from being smuggled you sure can’t stop cigs.Didn’t the mob perfect smuggling during prohibition?

docflash on January 19, 2013 at 8:48 AM

Ask the Kennedy clan if smuggling works…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 8:50 AM

Ha!! That story should be re-written as “Johnny and Sally”, and make it mandatory reading for every child…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 8:49 AM

Your story would never be approved. Maybe “Mehmet and Soha”?

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 8:58 AM

Where there is a will there is a way.

Sherman1864 on January 19, 2013 at 9:03 AM

Americans have always cast a jaundiced eye toward the so-called “sin-taxes”

workingclass artist on January 19, 2013 at 9:09 AM

NY: Only one step ahead of Minnesota in the Stupid Department.

Bishop on January 19, 2013 at 9:10 AM

There’s a store (at least there used to be) right on the New Hampshire side of I-95, right across the border from Massachusetts where you could buy liquor at much lower prices. Mostly due to lower tax rates. It’s not as if this isn’t an unknown phenomenon.

rbj on January 19, 2013 at 9:13 AM

If Liberals were capable of reading history they would understand that large scale smuggling operations are always handled by organized crime. As in, you know, the bad guys (do they even accept that there are bad guys though?).

Whether its flat screen tvs, cigarettes, booze, drugs, people, organs…you’ll always find organized crime is involved.

So is Cuomo a gangster?

CorporatePiggy on January 19, 2013 at 9:14 AM

$14 a pack in Manhattan is just stupid.

steebo77 on January 19, 2013 at 9:16 AM

When cigarettes are outlawed, only outlaws will smoke cigarettes.

petefrt on January 19, 2013 at 9:16 AM

Hey, I’m from Syracuse. Why go to New Hampshire when you only need to go to the Oneida Reservation to avoid cigarette taxes? Stop by at Turning Stone while you’re there. Native Americans have figured out that they can use their special status to build islands of freedom to their significant financial benefit.

I’m from Rochester and I was thinking the same thing (except the closest reservation to us is just west of Batavia). But that’s why the state has been trying to squeeze the tribes for “unpaid” taxes recently. They’ve realized their massive taxation scheme has serious holes, and there’s not much they can do about it, short of pushing people–like the Indian tribes–around.

The NYS gov’t has tried it in the past, and it always ends badly.

Pope Linus on January 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM

heh! Sin Tax Wars…good one jazz

ted c on January 19, 2013 at 9:32 AM

After reading the posts above, I am beginning to think that Native Americans, having more freedom than We the People, should begin manufacturing AR parts and high capacity magazines.

How about a Cherokee Arms upper, or Sioux Nation MegaMag?

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 9:39 AM

A few years back I can remember a lot of NYC’ers were ordering smokes like Marlboro for $15/carton from some place in Moscow. Yes, Moscow, Russia. And the city found out who had ordered and how many…and retro taxed them at the city’s cig tax rate.

Since I’ve moved to West of the city now, the PA border isn’t too far, and cigs there are half the price they are in NY state, and even less than that compared to NYC. $13 or $14 a pack is absolutely ridiculous.

JetBoy on January 19, 2013 at 9:47 AM

Sure is ridiculous.

It was hard to quit smoking in the 80s in the Navy. When we were more than 50 miles offshore, federal taxes didn’t apply and I paid $2 for a CARTON of Camels. I’d stock up at sea and bring a couple dozen cartons to my uncle’s place (he smoked ‘em too), where we’d store ‘em in the freezer. Now that was real smuggling. ;-)

rasqual on January 19, 2013 at 9:54 AM

Sin Tax Wars! 60.9% of all smokes in NY go untaxed

This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone with any sense.

About 10 years ago, Canada tried the same thing. To reduce smoking, they raised taxes on cigs to the point where the approached $100 a carton. The government later claimed success as their “official” smoking rate data showed a decline.

However, some independent groups said smoking was actually increasing. “How could this be?”, said the Canadian government. “Our official tax receipts and sales data from manufacturers are down”!

They eventually figured out that thousands of people were bringing in lower taxed USA cigs and selling them on the black market. Hell, you couldn’t park a tractor trailer load of Marlboros within a hundred miles of the Canadian border without it being stolen.

Yet, our glorious overlords here repeat the same mistakes over and over and over.

BacaDog on January 19, 2013 at 9:59 AM

I’m from Rochester and I was thinking the same thing (except the closest reservation to us is just west of Batavia). But that’s why the state has been trying to squeeze the tribes for “unpaid” taxes recently. They’ve realized their massive taxation scheme has serious holes, and there’s not much they can do about it, short of pushing people–like the Indian tribes–around.

The NYS gov’t has tried it in the past, and it always ends badly.

Pope Linus on January 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM

I thought of the same thing. I’m from PA and people drive to the reservations all the time to stock up. Don’t the Senecas even have their own cigarette plants? Then there are the casinos. I think there are like 4 or 5 reservations in New York.

Deanna on January 19, 2013 at 10:01 AM

There are outstanding new business opportunities to be explored with the new crazy-nanny Cuomo gun regulations…”You have to pass it to see what’s in it!”

Cigarette smuggleing is kid stuff… gone from law-abiding target shooter to criminal in 60 seconds.

joe btfsplk on January 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM

After reading the posts above, I am beginning to think that Native Americans, having more freedom than We the People, should begin manufacturing AR parts and high capacity magazines.

How about a Cherokee Arms upper, or Sioux Nation MegaMag?

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 9:39 AM

Well they have their own cigarette plants, make their own brands to sell. So why not? I live in Pa and people go to New York to buy cigarettes all the time…from the reservations. Ironic isn’t it.

Deanna on January 19, 2013 at 10:06 AM

I’ll add one additional thing.

Law has been often seen as a pedagogue, a moral tutor. Things should be unlawful if, in fact, they are morally wrong.

Aside from the issue that apart from numerous points of common agreement on what’s moral there are myriad points of disagreement on a vast number of things, there’s something else.

When there are few laws, people do not look to the government for moral guidance because the government is not trying to be exhaustive in regulating human behavior. People will look, instead, within their own communities — family, church, civic organizations, educational institutions and charitable organizations (a broad array of mediating institutions).

But when there are many laws, it gets to the point where people figure anything at all is fine if there is no law against it. Which, of course, leads the do-gooders to create yet another law banning some newly-discovered “wrong” behavior. Which is usually defined, nowadays, as anything that merely offends someone. Which of course makes it a hate crime. Most likely a thought crime, in fact.

That’s one problem with runaway creation of laws affecting people from macro to micro levels of their lives. Further problems include the fact that on average, we disobey dozens of laws every month without having any chance of being aware of what those laws are, whether they’re state, federal, or local, or whether they’re legislated or regulated by some executive board or agency.

It’s like a house of cards that’s never renovated.

rasqual on January 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM

There’s a store (at least there used to be) right on the New Hampshire side of I-95, right across the border from Massachusetts where you could buy liquor at much lower prices. Mostly due to lower tax rates. It’s not as if this isn’t an unknown phenomenon.

rbj on January 19, 2013 at 9:13 AM

Mark Steyn at NRO posted a great anecdote from years back. When a past MA governor (sorry, can’t remember which one), realized people were going to NH to buy booze, he sent MA state troopers over to take license plate numbers at NH liquor stores.

The NH governor then sent NH troopers over to the liquor stores, and the MA troopers were told to beat it or they’d get arrested for loitering.

Wethal on January 19, 2013 at 10:13 AM

if people really understood things this would explain to them why the USA must be destroyed in the eyes of commies, socialists and progressives the world over. Their polices can not work as long as others live in freedom because humans reject their polices and programs whenever they have the option too. thus the masses must be control. All must be “equal” so that their is no choice.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 10:24 AM

Mark Steyn at NRO posted a great anecdote from years back. When a past MA governor (sorry, can’t remember which one), realized people were going to NH to buy booze, he sent MA state troopers over to take license plate numbers at NH liquor stores.

The NH governor then sent NH troopers over to the liquor stores, and the MA troopers were told to beat it or they’d get arrested for loitering.

Wethal on January 19, 2013 at 10:13 AM

think the gov was Mitt Romney.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 10:26 AM

rasqual on January 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM

The other thing with having so many laws is that the government then is able to selectively prosecute citizens that it deems undesirable. As Steyn puts it, it becomes a whimsical government, enforcing the laws at its whim, in the interests of those in power. Sure, most of the citizens are able to live their lives as they will, but every citizen is subject to prosecution since they all are in violation of some law, regulation, or statute. Thus the overriding objective of citizens in such a society is to avoid calling attention to themselves.

AZfederalist on January 19, 2013 at 10:31 AM

When cigarettes are outlawed, only outlaws will smoke cigarettes.

petefrt on January 19, 2013 at 9:16 AM

This is a finalist for “2013 Thread Winner of the Year.”

Khun Joe on January 19, 2013 at 10:33 AM

There are outstanding new business opportunities to be explored with the new crazy-nanny Cuomo gun regulations…”You have to pass it to see what’s in it!”

Cigarette smuggleing is kid stuff… gone from law-abiding target shooter to criminal in 60 seconds.

joe btfsplk on January 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM

That TV show, “The Walking Dead”, is taped in NY….They don’t have to hire extras; just put cameras on street corners.

dirtengineer on January 19, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Last summer I went through western New York State and bought cigarettes pretty cheaply at a truck stop on the Seneca Nation reservation. FYI that’s M&M Allegany Junction Truck Stop off I-81 exit 23 (US 219 S). Just sayin’… ;-)

JohnAGJ on January 19, 2013 at 10:36 AM

It’s the eternal bane of the Liberal mind: those dirty little peasants just won’t stand still and be milked, like some mindless cow. They just aren’t enlightened enough to see the “Greater Good” that their betters are trying to achieve for them.

One of the great ironies of the modern era is the canard that conservatives are attached to some mythical golden age of the past while liberals are the modern thought leaders on the cutting edge of social progress. The truth is that while conservatism in the American context takes it’s world view from the enlightenment philosophies of the 18th century, liberalism is firmly and fatally mired in the enlightened despotism of the 16th century. In fact, when you think about it, modern American liberals would have been tories in the 1770′s while conservatives would’ve been the radical anarchists who finally won the revolution.
It just gets weirder and weirder every time we go through this story.

Lew on January 19, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Smuggling and underground economies will always exist where there are laws to tax, frustrate, limit or deny access to goods or services desired by the citizenry. Happens with alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and prostitution.

And yet the modern liberal knows that gun bans will somehow be different… ?

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 8:44 AM

It is alright. The progressive libs can handle it. It’s not like the smugglers will be armed with anything but knives and clubs.

KW64 on January 19, 2013 at 10:55 AM

What makes anyone think taxing smokes is about raising revenue or any stupid raaaaacist crap like that? It’s about making liberals feel good. Stupid, symbolic actions for silly, self-deluding people. Feel-good kabuki.

Marxism is for dummies on January 19, 2013 at 11:15 AM

Smoking goes down because 99% of the people who smoke don’t want to…it’s a habit they don’t really enjoy, and certainly most people around them don’t like, especially their kids (always laugh at parents who smoke and condemn their kids for smoking).

Our nation is growing up, and as people get older they realize how foolish some things are, and smoking is one of those “cool” things that lives on the edge of society.

Taxing it aggressively is foolish, especially when they say things like “The added tax will help the schools”…uhhhh, yeah, teach the kids that smoking is good for schools.

Taxing cigarettes out of business won’t work…it is dropping because people are wising up…you can bet the majority of new smokers are the uneducated, lower class. So this is a tax, once again, on the lower class.

Let them smoke, they won’t live as long, and the entitlements will be cut quicker.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 11:36 AM

…grow your own!

KOOLAID2 on January 19, 2013 at 11:43 AM

The real lesson here – the one that the liberals and nanny-staters refuse to learn – is to be the place that people want to smuggle from. They could probably triple their revenue stream by cutting taxes to $1.00. They’d be the go-to place for their own folks, and for everyone and their smugglers from all the neighboring States, too.

ss396 on January 19, 2013 at 11:55 AM

…grow your own!

KOOLAID2 on January 19, 2013 at 11:43 AM

Ha! Your are most certainly correct: Here

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 12:04 PM

Quit beeching and roll your own.
With an $80.00 electric roller, we roll our own and it costs SEVENTY FIVE CENTS ($0.75) per pack. I aint bullsheetin’ neither.
~(Ä)~

Karl Magnus on January 19, 2013 at 12:05 PM

you can bet the majority of new smokers are the uneducated, lower class. So this is a tax, once again, on the lower class.

Let them smoke, they won’t live as long, and the entitlements will be cut quicker.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 11:36 AM

careful your elitism is showing. People smoke because of nicotine. Nicotine doesn’t care about education, class standing, or how much money you have. and speaking of education smoking doesn’t mean you die quicker. It means you have a chance of dying quicker. Many smokers live into their 80′s and 90′s. more research needs to be done on why some smokers die early and some don’t. My educated guess would be it is determined by genes and your DNA.

Also as smoking becomes less socially acceptable. Youth are smoking more as it is seen as rebelling against their parents and/or society. Just like “free sex” was the youths rebellion in the 60′s and drugs in the 80′s etc….

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 12:17 PM

The real lesson here – the one that the liberals and nanny-staters refuse to learn – is to be the place that people want to smuggle from. They could probably triple their revenue stream by cutting taxes to $1.00. They’d be the go-to place for their own folks, and for everyone and their smugglers from all the neighboring States, too.

ss396 on January 19, 2013 at 11:55 AM

liberals would rather be in control then rich.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 12:20 PM

I remember buying a carton of cigs for less that the tax on a pack today. Of course, that was long ago and in a galaxy far, far away…

Kraken on January 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM

when I lived in New York I hit up the Indian Reservation. Cheap as crap, and oh! there’s the liquor. Then I hightailed it back to white man country.

Slade73 on January 19, 2013 at 8:36 AM

I was going to say something along the same lines.

Here in So. Cal there are numerous indian reservations with casino’s and other gambling venues. They also all sell tobacco in every legal form known to man.

And it is all tax free and/or ‘duty free’ which reduces the price of a name-brand carton of cigs here in Cali from about $52 a carton to about $25 a carton. The ‘indian tobacco’ cartons are like $10-$15, but they taste like what I imagine smoking donkey scat must taste like.

The cigars are all about half the normal price too.

In fact, the Smoke Shops on the indian reservations have become so popular here that the reservations have had to put limits on how many cartons of cigs and how many boxes of cigars you can buy per day because the liquor store owners were cleaning them out and then reselling the stock in their stores at the ‘taxed’ prices and keeping the massive profit for themselves. That caused the Eye of Sauron Government to turn its gaze towards the indian reservations – and the indians greatly dislike when that happens.

If you’re really adventurous – you can cross into Mexico and get name-brand tobacco products super cheap there too but the border laws prevent you from legally bringing back more than one carton of smokes (200 cigs total) or five boxes of cigars (100 cigars total) per day.

SD Tom on January 19, 2013 at 12:30 PM

There’s a store (at least there used to be) right on the New Hampshire side of I-95, right across the border from Massachusetts where you could buy liquor at much lower prices. Mostly due to lower tax rates. It’s not as if this isn’t an unknown phenomenon.

rbj on January 19, 2013 at 9:13 AM

It’s actually a few miles up I-95 from the border, at the Portsmouth Traffic Circle. Gets a ton of business.

As do the twin stores (one in each direction) along I-93 in Hooksett, about halfway between Manchester and Concord.

And often overlooked are a couple of smaller stores in the extreme southwestern corner of the state, which are not actually directly on I-91, but are both just off the highway.

Del Dolemonte on January 19, 2013 at 12:35 PM

Mark Steyn at NRO posted a great anecdote from years back. When a past MA governor (sorry, can’t remember which one), realized people were going to NH to buy booze, he sent MA state troopers over to take license plate numbers at NH liquor stores.

The NH governor then sent NH troopers over to the liquor stores, and the MA troopers were told to beat it or they’d get arrested for loitering.

Wethal on January 19, 2013 at 10:13 AM

think the gov was Mitt Romney.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 10:26 AM

No, that happened years before Romney, in 1972. Frank Sargent was MA Governor at the time. When he sent the MA state tax agents (not state troopers) to the NH liquor stores to take down the license plate numbers, NH Governor Mel Thomson had them arrested.

Del Dolemonte on January 19, 2013 at 12:40 PM

How about a Cherokee Arms upper, or Sioux Nation MegaMag?

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 9:39 AM

How about a Kinkos style 3D printer service. Just print your own AR/Glock/Sig mags using the pattern from Defense Distributed (or others)? No need to setup a manufacturing plant and worry about shipping/costs/etc. Just let people 3D print whatever they want. And provide a next-door range for testing.

iconoclast on January 19, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Smoking goes down because 99% of the people who smoke don’t want to…it’s a habit they don’t really enjoy,

That’s ridiculous. I smoke and I love smoking. I enjoy my cigarettes, as most smokers do.

and certainly most people around them don’t like, especially their kids (always laugh at parents who smoke and condemn their kids for smoking).

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 11:36 AM

LOL.

I certainly didn’t like paying over $4/pack (the threshold of which I passed many years ago) so I turned to MYO a few years back and now pay only $1.20/pack, legally, for better tobacco. And the various governments don’t get diddly from me in the way of cigarette taxes (just a couple of dollars per pound of tobacco) which makes my cigarettes that much sweeter.

If you don’t like cigarettes then fine, but don’t make stuff up about smokers.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 12:52 PM

I think there is a problem with smuggling and also illegal drugs somehow coming in thru the Indian reservations…They were suing them a while back…for the taxes due…of course not on the pot.

Fleuries on January 19, 2013 at 1:05 PM

Well they have their own cigarette plants, make their own brands to sell. So why not? I live in Pa and people go to New York to buy cigarettes all the time…from the reservations. Ironic isn’t it.

Deanna on January 19, 2013 at 10:06 AM

I, too, live in PA. We should find the nearest reservation and float the gun manufacturing concept. Though I have very little Indian blood, I am more Cherokee and, hell, even more Creek than Elizabeth Warren.

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 1:20 PM

How about a Kinkos style 3D printer service. Just print your own AR/Glock/Sig mags using the pattern from Defense Distributed (or others)? No need to setup a manufacturing plant and worry about shipping/costs/etc. Just let people 3D print whatever they want. And provide a next-door range for testing.

iconoclast on January 19, 2013 at 12:51 PM

Because the manufacture of firearms and firearm accessories will be illegal in the United States – all 57 of them.

Do love the 3D printers. Would be great for prototyping.

ROCnPhilly on January 19, 2013 at 1:25 PM

If you don’t like cigarettes then fine, but don’t make stuff up about smokers.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 12:52 PM

I don’t make this stuff up, the majority of smokers don’t want to continue, they know it’s detrimental to their health, and detrimental to the family unit…that’s pretty much an absolute fact. If you think smoking enhances your life, extends your physical health, you have a problem…and no it’s not just, “it’s worth a few years of my life to smoke now”, it’s the last few years of your life that others loved ones suffer taking care of you, and burying you.

Of course you find many, out of millions, who don’t have a problem smoking…but in reality most are just whistling in the graveyard.

What “cures” many is when they are the ones that have to care take their loved ones as they try to breath their last breath…or find out that they won’t be around for the birth of their first grandchild…then there are the selfish ones, who smoke and know that it will shorten their life, but hey, they’ll be taken care of, rolling around their oxygen tank, not being able to keep up with their grandchildren…yeah, that smoke is valuable, so valuable, so important, why you just can’t live without it, to the point where you know others will suffer for you.
Coughing, hacking up your phlegm, when you are 70 years old…while I and others will be out playing our tennis, fishing with our kids, hunting with our grandkids…you have a good plan, you enjoy it, at your loved ones cost, good idea, take care of you, if it feels good do it, don’t sacrifice for your loved ones, to heck with them…that cigarette is more important….yeah, like I said, good plan, way to think ahead.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM

If you’re really adventurous – you can cross into Mexico and get name-brand tobacco products super cheap there too but the border laws prevent you from legally bringing back more than one carton of smokes (200 cigs total) or five boxes of cigars (100 cigars total) per day.

SD Tom on January 19, 2013 at 12:30 PM

Nothing was funnier than watching a “high buck” lady, all dressed up coming across the Tijuana border in her Caddie…pulled over in the secondary (we were there because we were towing a boat and looked pretty ragged after a week fishing trip in Baja), indignant she didn’t’ want to open her trunk, finally the “supervisor” came over, cuffed her, took her keys, opened the trunk…full of cigarettes, chock full. The dog at the border caught the scent, thought they were just trained for drugs.

Man was she hot to trot, ticked off, why she was going to call her friend, Barbara Boxer, oh yeah, she had the whole line laid out…last I saw, her door panels were being ripped off…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:46 PM

60.9% of all smokes in NY go untaxed

30.1% are just plain stupid!!!

MaiDee on January 19, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Only problem with traveling to get cigarettes is you have to gas up the car. NYS gas taxes are trying to rival the cigarette taxes.

hopeful on January 19, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Many smokers live into their 80′s and 90′s. more research needs to be done on why some smokers die early and some don’t. My educated guess would be it is determined by genes and your DNA.

Also as smoking becomes less socially acceptable. Youth are smoking more as it is seen as rebelling against their parents and/or society. Just like “free sex” was the youths rebellion in the 60′s and drugs in the 80′s etc….

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 12:17 PM

It’s not “how long” it’s “how well”…sorry but people who smoke have a much lower health rating than those who don’t…much higher rate of cancer, diabetes, and general degradation of health.

No more studies need to be made, it’s pretty evident, and has been fact for decades.

And the real fact, lower income smoke at a much higher rate than incomes above, and less educated, much higher rate of smoking…

Entitlement to government, entitlement to smoking no matter the cost…not much difference in mindset…to heck with anyone else, I am doing what I want…no matter the cost to my family and loved ones.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:52 PM

How about a Kinkos style 3D printer service. Just print your own AR/Glock/Sig mags using the pattern from Defense Distributed (or others)? No need to setup a manufacturing plant and worry about shipping/costs/etc. Just let people 3D print whatever they want. And provide a next-door range for testing.

iconoclast on January 19, 2013 at 12:51 PM

All the printer would print – when such a thing becomes reality – is the outer shell (the box). No floor plate. No follower. And no spring.

Solaratov on January 19, 2013 at 1:53 PM

LOL and the other 9% are even dumber!

MaiDee on January 19, 2013 at 1:55 PM

As a NY-er, I see us becoming the next California very quickly because the tax wells are drying up and the Gov. is searching for anything that’s taxable. The DUI laws are strict and bar hoping has all but disappeared here and many of the watering holes are closed. Most do their drinking at home and most have quit smoking too. The State Parks are among the closing too that campers fled to during the summer months. Andrew Cuomo has grabbed the compensation funds that were there for comp. cases to fund his entitlement cause and as a result compensation lawyers and doctors left the State. Gasoline is taxed at about 69.45 cents a gallon (depending on grade and location) but we do have the top spot with the highest gasoline tax. According to some reports we, along with ten other states, have more people receiving benefits from the State than employed workers. There’s a lot of squawking about this pro and con.

mixplix on January 19, 2013 at 1:56 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM

Your self-righteousness is impressive. You’re still making sh!t up.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:40 PM

There’s nothing quite so sanctimonious and self-rightious as a reformed smoker (or a non-smoker) telling other people how to lead their lives.

Read your little rant. With a couple of word changes, it’s exactly how leftists talk to/about gun owners.

Solaratov on January 19, 2013 at 2:03 PM

I am doing what I want…no matter the cost to my family and loved ones.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:52 PM

It is called freedom you should look it up and understand what it means. If a person wants to smoke what business is it of yours? Do you think yourself better than the man who chooses to smoke? Why? You are no better or worse than one who does. It is his body not yours nor his family’s nor his loved ones. and it isn’t about how long or how well. Many people who smoke have no problems with it. many do. Like I said its more likely that DNA determines who does and does not have problems.

As far as “facts” about who smokes and who doesn’t I doubt your facts are facts at all and instead more your opinion.

You are no better than a progressive liberal who thinks they have the right to tell others how to live their lives because you “know” better.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Finally…li’l bammie created some “public sector” jobs.

Now where does one get an application for Senior Cigarette Bootlegger?

Sounds profitable!

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Well, if you take a qx56 and fold down the seats and fill the back end with cigarettes in a low tax place and drive them into new york city and sell them for a little less than the real market rate there, you would have enough money to pay for the vehicle, the fuel and have a spare $40,000 to spend on living expenses while you stay there selling them.

astonerii on January 19, 2013 at 2:58 PM

There’s nothing quite so sanctimonious and self-rightious as a reformed smoker (or a non-smoker) telling other people how to lead their lives.

Read your little rant. With a couple of word changes, it’s exactly how leftists talk to/about gun owners.

Solaratov on January 19, 2013 at 2:03 PM

I am not telling you what to do…I am telling you the outcome of what you are doing…you should learn the difference.

If someone says, “Watch out for the crevice, it will crumble”, that’s not telling them what to do, it’s informing them of the chance of what will happen if they do.

The “sanctimonious” comes from thinking that when someone points out the obvious, you become defensive.

Now here is some advice: Read your little rant. With a couple of word changes, it’s exactly how leftists talk to/about gun owners.

It’s called a debate, a discussion…I don’t care if one smokes, I was pointing out the results of that person smoking…like 4 or 5 times the chances of a heart failure, 10 times the chance of getting cancer…those are facts, not telling you not to do it.

If a person says “hey, watch out, you are driving on the wrong side of the road”, you have every right to say “it’s a free country, I will do what I want, don’t tell me”. And that is what you guys did…sanctimoniously, but it doesn’t change the fact…smokers will at a much greater rate, leave a loved one behind, or the loved one will be their caretaker, than someone who doesn’t smoke…facts, don’t let your emotions control you, look at the facts.

And make a decision…you continue to smoke no matter the harm it will bring to your family…that’s your choice.

Your problem, like many leftists, is that facts are a terrible thing to face…much better to use emotion, it feels good, I like it.

“Yeah, I know it will cause heartache in my family, and my kids hate it and I don’t want them to smoke, but I like it, it’s a free country”…yes, free to do what you want, and free to make decisions to help your loved ones, it’s called “sacrifice” and I must say, a pretty minor one.

Creating better health for you, better health for your family, or not…face the facts, don’t use your emotions.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Your self-righteousness is impressive. You’re still making sh!t up.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 1:59 PM

Great…so now tell me what “I made up”…that smoking is less healthy, you think that’s some fairy tale?

That smokers have a much greater chance of getting cancer? Really

Okay, ignore about 40 years of science and research…as well as just plain common sense.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:10 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:03 PM

Tell us all about the dangers of drinking 32 oz Big Gulps, motorcycle riding, and rock climbing, now, and the selfishness of the people who do those things at the expense of their families …

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM

Great…so now tell me what “I made up”…that smoking is less healthy, you think that’s some fairy tale?

That smokers have a much greater chance of getting cancer? Really

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:10 PM

You made up the “fact” that most smokers don’t enjoy smoking. You embellished on the rest of your self-righteous lecture.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 3:12 PM

Tell us all about the dangers of drinking 32 oz Big Gulps, motorcycle riding, and rock climbing, now, and the selfishness of the people who do those things at the expense of their families …

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 3:11 PM

They are obvious, that’s the point…don’t just sweep the obvious under the rug and say “it’s a free country”…if you are a reckless motorcycle rider, or even a “safe” one in a major city, with children, look at the chances of being severely injured, if they make sense to you, ride, just have an extra policy to take care of your family because the odds are greater of severe head trauma than if driving in a car, if you have car insurance, take out a little extra…rock climbing, great, if you are freestyling, hope you don’t have a family as you move up the face, just make sure your family is taken care of when you do those risks…all of these things, like a diet of fatty foods, its your choice.

There are “dangers” everywhere, but some are so obvious to avoid…wear a seat belt? Do you look in the mirror before pulling out, or do you “just go for it”…do you hunt with a gun with the safety off always, you might miss a shot if you do…so you give up that missed opportunity, for safety.

Go ahead and drive on the wrong side of the road, it that gives you a thrill…just be prepared, and make sure your family is taken care of. Now I understand how hard it is for someone to give up 32 oz. of soda a couple of times a day…but go ahead, just realize when you turn 50 you are going to be a ball of blubber, if that’s what you want,just make sure you have a nurse lined up to care for you and not your spouse…but smoking is very preventative, just stop and what have you really given up? Compared to what you have gained…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:25 PM

You made up the “fact” that most smokers don’t enjoy smoking. You embellished on the rest of your self-righteous lecture.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 3:12 PM

OOOPs, looks like my “embellishment” is backed up with surveys…there are dozens with the same conclusion…what do you want, Hopkins survey? Gallup? Journal of Medicine? British?

Here is just one survey:

According to the survey:

68.8% of adult smokers in the U.S. say they want to quit.
52.4% of current smokers attempted to quit in the past year.
48.3% of smokers recalled getting quit advice from a health care professional.
1 in 3 smokers used counseling and/or medication to quit smoking.
The survey is based on data from 2010 in the National Health Interview Surveys. It included information on smoking status from 27,157 people aged 18 or older.

Smoker Typology, 2000-2005 Gallup Poll Data

Addicted and want to give up smoking
63%
Addicted, do not want to give up smoking
11%
Not addicted, want to give up smoking
17%
Not addicted, do not want to give up smoking
7%

In 1990, Gallup found 61% of smokers saying they considered themselves addicted to cigarettes. That percentage has increased over time — currently, 74% say they are addicted, and at least 7 in 10 have said so since 1997.

Addicted, meaning they also have a difficult time not rationalizing their behavior…addiction, they purposely place themselves in a position to be manipulated by a drug, and admit it…amazing.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM

32 oz. of soda a couple of times a day…but go ahead, just realize when you turn 50 you are going to be a ball of blubber, if that’s what you want,just make sure you have a nurse lined up to care for you and not your spouse

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:25 PM

Let’s stop with the crazy.

I’m over 50…and drink about 3 cans of ginger-ale every day (36 oz’s minimum).

I’m 5′ 10″ and weigh 187 with a body fat ratio I’d compare to yours any day.

Try to stay focused…you’re beginning to sound like a NY politician.

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Forget it. He’s rolling.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 19, 2013 at 3:40 PM

NY and its residents are getting and have received what they all deserve.

They elected them. Suck it up.

TX-96 on January 19, 2013 at 4:04 PM

I am proud to say that my state of Washington is #4 on the Mackinac hit parade of high smuggling states. In rural areas we have a long tradition of saying “screw you” to the revenoors and I am pleased to see this tradition continue.

iconoclast on January 19, 2013 at 4:05 PM

That smokers have a much greater chance of getting cancer? Really

Okay, ignore about 40 years of science and research…as well as just plain common sense.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:10 PM

SOME smokers have a much greater chance. Some don’t it depends on many things like nutrition, age, length of time they have been smoking, health, DNA etc.

And those 40 years of research says as much.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 4:23 PM

I’m 5′ 10″ and weigh 187 with a body fat ratio I’d compare to yours any day.

Try to stay focused…you’re beginning to sound like a NY politician.

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Pal, your buddy throws out a bunch of foolish scenarios, and you wait to try to find one little crevice to put you foot in and make a big deal…or as would do, I said a couple that’s 64 oz, you only drink…..blah blah.

On the internet everyone is in great shape, perfect health…I’m 6’2, 204, ranked national tennis player and can still swim a mid 50′s 100 yard freestyle at 66 years old…you have a habit of trying to pigeon hole someone…where did I say you couldn’t do those things, just be aware of the consequences, and the consequences is your family…when you are in a coma, or going to chemo, your family is going to be there because of your bad decisions…

You guys, once again, are confusing telling you what to do, and telling you what will probably happen…

If you think that smoking is healthy and leads you to a better life…great…but you don’t, that’s the irony. You are arguing to be less healthy, well, I can’t argue that, if that’s what you are striving for, you will achieve it.

Just be sure to have enough medical care where I don’t have to foot your bill…if you don’t, I gladly do it, but I prefer you plan ahead.

And your buddy, I met his challenge, gave him his stats to show I was correct…and a real man concedes and thanks me for taking the time to educate him…instead he hid behind a snarky post…choose your buddies more carefully.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM

And those 40 years of research says as much.

unseen on January 19, 2013 at 4:23 PM

No, it’s definitive…you are 10 times more likely to get cancer if you smoke than if you don’t smoke…and probably a gadzillion times more chance of getting emphysema if you smoke. Heart disease, diabetes a host of life threatening, all slowly, not all at once, but slowly eating away, and when you find out you have emphysema, why you most likely will quit…too late.

Of course some have a larger chance, some kids get a cold often, some get sore throat, some people get appendicitis, heart disease…but some carcinogens are a triggers, why pull the trigger…it’s Russian roulette.

Some people get lung cancer and never smoke, others smoke, work in a coal mine and don’t…but why tempt fate for such a small price?

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 4:32 PM

I am proud to say that my state of Washington is #4 on the Mackinac hit parade of high smuggling states. In rural areas we have a long tradition of saying “screw you” to the revenoors and I am pleased to see this tradition continue.

iconoclast on January 19, 2013 at 4:05 PM

And probably #4 on a few other substances grown locally…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 4:33 PM

Pal, your buddy throws out a bunch of foolish scenarios, and you wait to try to find one little crevice to put you foot in and make a big deal…or as would do, I said a couple that’s 64 oz, you only drink…..blah blah.

On the internet everyone is in great shape, perfect health…I’m 6’2, 204, ranked national tennis player and can still swim a mid 50′s 100 yard freestyle at 66 years old…you have a habit of trying to pigeon hole someone…where did I say you couldn’t do those things, just be aware of the consequences, and the consequences is your family…when you are in a coma, or going to chemo, your family is going to be there because of your bad decisions…

You guys, once again, are confusing telling you what to do, and telling you what will probably happen…

If you think that smoking is healthy and leads you to a better life…great…but you don’t, that’s the irony. You are arguing to be less healthy, well, I can’t argue that, if that’s what you are striving for, you will achieve it.

Just be sure to have enough medical care where I don’t have to foot your bill…if you don’t, I gladly do it, but I prefer you plan ahead.

And your buddy, I met his challenge, gave him his stats to show I was correct…and a real man concedes and thanks me for taking the time to educate him…instead he hid behind a snarky post…choose your buddies more carefully.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM

Your posts are generally thoughtful, and I agree with you 99% of the time.

I’m sorry…but if you think a “sin tax” is going to prevent people from smoking…you’re just plain wrong….as this article proves once again.

It just enriches the Government.

Either make it illegal (which won’t work either)….or get out of the pockets of legal smokers.

(I don’t smoke cigarettes…but I do enjoy a daily cigar)

And BTW…I’m smart enough to know that if I CHOOSE to drink 64 oz’s of soda a day…I’d adjust my caloric intake over the course of my daily meals to compensate.

I don’t need the GOVERNMENT to do my thinking for me…I’m a big boy.

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 4:37 PM

On the internet everyone is in great shape, perfect health…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 4:27 PM

lol…doubt me?

Let’s meet at Eat at Joes in Redondo beach for breakfast, name the time and date…I’ll buy my friend.

(I’ll be having a soda with breakfast….and after we’ll take a cruise down PCH in my suv)

;-)

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 5:17 PM

lol…doubt me?

Let’s meet at Eat at Joes in Redondo beach for breakfast, name the time and date…I’ll buy my friend.

(I’ll be having a soda with breakfast….and after we’ll take a cruise down PCH in my suv)

;-)

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 5:17 PM

I don’t doubt you…and I left SoCal 7 years ago…Redondo Beach, that’s where all the hard bodies hang out. A great place…I was at the other end, Dana Point…if you ever on the East coast, biscuits and gravy and sausage with eggs for breakfast…makes your soda look like granola.

Have a good weekend…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 5:34 PM

right2bright

Im betting you got picked on a lot as a kid, and btw, Im pretty sure you deserved it.

Machismo on January 19, 2013 at 5:37 PM

I don’t need the GOVERNMENT to do my thinking for me…I’m a big boy.

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 4:37 PM

No, I agree, I don’t want any taxes on those cigarettes, just jaw’in with people who think there is no problem with smoking…I have seen too many people taken down, at a time when they should be enjoying their hard work…don’t let my post do anything but say I care enough to have someone hate me, if it just makes them stop and think…it’s the family, not just them.

Common sense should regulate what we do, not the government…like I posted the other day…strange how the people who depend on us to choose them as leaders, don’t trust our decisions…guess they know more about themselves than we do.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 5:38 PM

right2bright

Im betting you got picked on a lot as a kid, and btw, Im pretty sure you deserved it.

Machismo on January 19, 2013 at 5:37 PM

Awwww, thanks, I knew someone would see the better side of me, it’s always nice to hear from a fan…but really, I must go, but thanks for caring…best to you also, you are so kind.

Funny how I pretty much kept it from getting personal…yet these yahoos want to get personal…next time, attack with some facts, rather than the same old garbage that was used when I was a kid and got picked on…
Have a great weekend, hug your kids and let them know that you will do everything in your power to be with them as long as you can…they deserve a father who is “machismo”…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 5:43 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM

Thank you for your sanctimonious lectures/rants.

Go pound sand up your butt.

Solaratov on January 19, 2013 at 5:47 PM

if you ever on the East coast, biscuits and gravy and sausage with eggs for breakfast…makes your soda look like granola.

Have a good weekend…

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 5:34 PM

lol…sounds delicious!

Impossible to find good biscuits and gravy in L.A.

I’d trade a soda for a plate anytime!

Tim_CA on January 19, 2013 at 5:55 PM

Cigarette smuggling piracy, that is.

Oh, I’m sure you meant FREE TRADE, right Jazz? Isn’t that the lie our government always touts? Face it, the “pirates” as you call them, are true capitalists.

woodNfish on January 19, 2013 at 8:47 PM

Thank you for your sanctimonious lectures/rants.

Go pound sand up your butt.

Solaratov on January 19, 2013 at 5:47 PM

Thanks, I hope you have a great day tomorrow…nice to hear from someone who understands.

Of course you know that you can just ignore what I say…but if you have a problem, try to be a little definitive where you think I am not correct…that cigarettes is unhealthy, and the burden of a cancer patient falls on their loved ones, as much as the one with cancer.

Or, I can take your childish remarks, and hope that one person sits down and says…”is it worth it?”, to ruin a family for a moment of pleasure?

Like I said, I have lost too many to cigarettes…why would I turn my back on them now? It’s painful to see anyone die, but to die a slow death, because you wanted to smoke, how selfish.

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 11:04 PM

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 1:52 PM

You can always hang out at rehabs and harangue the drinkers & crackheads if ya like.

Smokers have been targeted and unfairly taxed for years…now the obnoxiously self righteous are targeting the wealthy,christians,and gun owners etc. using the same methods.

1. marginalize and shame the targeted group
2. legislate to force compliance
3. Insist on redefining the norm
4. Penalize through legislation and social shunning

It’s always a minority of puritan malcontents who seek to satisfy their impotence at solving problems by targeting with a eugenics style of social engineering because it’s the only satisfaction they can feel…Meanwhile the deficit continues to grow and our constitution is under assault.

workingclass artist on January 20, 2013 at 12:02 AM

right2bright on January 19, 2013 at 11:04 PM

The tax on smokers funds the child welfare medical programs…nobody wants smokers to quit smoking really…

workingclass artist on January 20, 2013 at 12:04 AM

Is righttobright a Bloomberg’s wife?

VorDaj on January 20, 2013 at 12:27 AM

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